Therapy Session with Nayantara Rodrigues - Episode: 138

Since Men's Mental Health Month just past, we wanted to continue the conversation about mental health with therapist Nayantara Rodrigues. We cover childhood traumas, anxiety, depression, and the importance of seeking mental health.Contact Nayantara at [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

(00:07):
This could give me for our podcastWhat Up on Jizzo? That is John
Magic and we are back. Jesseeand I have always talked about having a
guest like this on the show,and we actually have a friend. Well,
we had her on the podcast afew episodes back, Mo and we're
like, wait, Mo has afriend that is in this profession. Yeah,
that we've been wanting to get on. Yeah. So today's guest is

(00:29):
a wife, a mom, aprofessor at Fresno State, a yoga teacher
and trainer, a Lululemon ambassador,and a licensed marriage and family therapist.
Niantara Rodriguez is a right Thank youfor joining us on the pod. Thank
you. I am so honored tobe here. Jizo and I always talk
about having a therapist because it's aninteresting it's an interesting job, uh,

(00:52):
interesting background. And I know wehave done therapy in the past and we
shared some things about it, butwe've never actually like interviewed theirs. I
guess I should preface by saying thatif you guys follow me on social media,
some people know that I just Ijust started therapy. Okay, you're
back at it. So I'm likefive weeks in and I have to preface
that she's not my therapist. Thatwould be weird. That probably wouldn't happen

(01:18):
in real life where you're interviewing yourtherapist. Yeah, it probably, No,
it probably wouldn't happen. Wouldn't bea good idea ethical. I wanted
to start by this. I knowit's already July as we're recording this episode,
but last month was men Men's MentalHealth Month? Yes, month.
Why do you think it's important formen to have a Men's Mental Health Month?

(01:38):
Oh gosh, I mean, Ihope to cover everything that I can,
but this. I know it's onlyan hour, but it could be
as long as we want, really, But I think it's so important because
society, I feel, really makesus feel like, especially men, that
you guys can't talk about your feelings, that you have to have it all

(01:59):
together and be strong and vulnerability orcrying or showing emotions is a sign of
weakness. And I think that alot of men have grown up that way,
and you know generationally too, likeit's passed down from our parents,
like how a man or a womanin quotes is supposed to be and what

(02:19):
they're supposed to be like. SoI think it's so important for us to
have a Men's Mental Health Month toshow like men also need mental health.
You guys need to talk about yourfeelings. You need to talk about things
that are you know, stored inyour heart. It's important for you.
Yeah, I'm glad it's something that'sbeing talked about more and more because as
growing up, the whole mental healthconversation was like not even a thing in

(02:40):
school. You know, I couldhave been going through it and it was
kind of just like get your acttogether, be a man, get over
it, and it wasn't a thing. And now, you know, I'm
happy that it's more talked about,especially amongst guys, of having therapy and
mental health, because that was nowhereto be found when I was growing up.
And it's imagine if I did haveit, or people that were struggling

(03:01):
at that time did have it andwas talked about more, would have been
a lot better. Y. Iwon't go into detail about the things that
I'm learning and being aware of,but you kind of brought up a lot
of this is from your childhood.Yes, I was trying to grasp that,
and you know, I learned somethings from my therapy session that really

(03:23):
made me open my eyes. Canyou kind of go in depth about why
is it something that happened years andyears ago when you were a kid carries
on to today? Good question.Yeah, that's a multi layered question.
But to kind of like break itdown a little bit, when you're younger,

(03:44):
right, one of the things thathappens to you is that your core
beliefs about yourself are really made notjust like in your mind as a memory,
but like they're imprinted in your brain, right. Like, So I
don't want to get too much intothat, because there's a whole science behind
that, especially trauma and things likethat, but I think that basically,

(04:05):
to kind of make it a littlebit like a shorter version, we all
are almost like wounded boys and girls, little boys and girls that kind of
grow up without really talking about whathas happened, and so we build like
these walls around us to help uskind of cope with reality and life,

(04:25):
and it's our defensiveness, right,And then we kind of like grow up
not really being able to process thatourselves. So we end up making decisions
like being in the wrong relationships ormarrying somebody that really kind of like makes
us feel less than because that's whowe internally think that we are supposed to

(04:46):
be. So things that even happento us at like five or six,
they are imprinted in our heart,our memory, our brain, you know,
and then we kind of grow upwithout really ever dealing with that and
then making subconscious decisions. So that'slike the thoughts behind the thoughts about our

(05:09):
life based on who we think weare. I always felt that we were
somebody. Yeah I talk about thiswith Magic. It was we really are
like a product of our environment.And it's it's crazy that something that can
happen so many years ago or whenyou're young that can affect you into your
adulthood, Like it really just stayswith you that whole time. And now
are you saying, is that becausewe don't cope with it during that time?

(05:31):
Like would that be different if wedid? Yeah, yeah, one
hundred percent. Like, so tryingto think of an example, Like,
for instance, if you're like ayoung child, right, like let's just
say like eight or nine, andyour parents divorced. A lot of children
at that age like internalize that process, so they think, oh, mom
and dad divorced because I did somethingwrong. Well, a lot of parents

(05:54):
that are divorced, like they don'treally talk to their kids, they don't
take them to therapy. You know. Well, a lot of parents will
just be like, oh, they'reresilient their kids, like they'll get over
it, or they're too young,or they're whatever, right, But internally,
there's a lot going on with thischild. So internally, again at
that age, they're thinking, oh, gosh, like it's me. I
maybe like cried too much, maybeI asked for too much, maybe whatever,

(06:15):
right, And then they grow upkind of thinking that they're too much.
I'm just kind of using an example. But if at that time their
mom and dad would have sat themdown and said, hey, like,
this is not about you, youknow, and that continue that process of
not making them pick or not makingthem like feel like this is what you
need to do or this is whatyou should who you should be with.

(06:39):
If they actually sat down and processedit, that child would grow up with
better coping skills. They would notthink like this is my fault, yeah,
say like, oh, well it'sbecause mom and dad like they really
couldn't, you know, work itout, and this is the kind of
on them. They wouldn't personalize itthe way they did at eight years old,
when they it wasn't talked about,when it wasn't processed. Do do

(06:59):
certain things that affects kids at ayoung age, Like let's use that example
of parents divorcing and a kid thinkingthat it was their fault. What does
that type of kid usually grow upto be or what are the things that
they struggle with? Like do peoplefait a certain category based off of what
they dealt with as a younger person? Or it could it be different things.
It's so interesting because we are alldifferent. Yeah, so, but

(07:24):
there are patterns that I've noticed,Like I've been I've been being I'm a
therapist. I've been the therapist sincetwo thousand and seven. I don't know
how long that is. I'm badin math, but you want to you
should? We try to figure itout. Eighteen years seven? Da?
No, sixteen eighteen? Well,okay, let's go twenty years. Twenty

(07:44):
years would be twenty twenty seven.It's twenty twenty four, so you minus
three for twenty twenty four and thatwould make it seventeen years seventeen. Sorry,
No, that's okay. So butin those seventeen years or so,
I have noticed like patterns and solike a lot of people that had been
through really bad traumatic divorces have alot of anxiety because at that time,

(08:07):
at eight years old, they cancontrol one of the most important things in
their lives, which was their parents. Right like at eight or nine,
Like think about that, you're lookingup to your parents. They're like everything
to you, you know, Andso like at that age, a lot
of times when their whole world hasbeen destroyed and they don't understand why and

(08:28):
they think it's them, they usuallyhave a lot of anxiety. So that
means like they weren't able to onetime control something that was so big for
them that they grow up trying tocontrol everything around them. And when they
can't control anything around them, that'swhen like there's a lot of anxiety.
Like it could be anything, Imean anything. It could be just controlling

(08:50):
the person there with, controlling theirfriends, controlling you know, how many
things they eat in a day.I mean, it could be a lot
of overthinking, a lot of overthinking, a lot of anxiety. How about
the side of you know, Jesseand I always talk about, oh,
maybe it's a generation thing where that'sjust how for example, I'm Filipino,

(09:15):
I grew up with both my parents, but they worked a lot. I
remember as a kid having a nannylike with maids and stuff. But to
me, that was my life.It's like, it's to me, this
is just how we are. Ididn't really see just within my family,
but I do hear it's common withFilipinos that you don't really share your emotions.
You don't, you don't. Affectionis not a thing. But I

(09:39):
just grew up thinking this was normal. Yes, So you know the things
that I'm kind of learning right nowis when I do feel in a relationship
like love, like I don't wantlike I don't want to let this go
and I will ignore everything. Justis that true? Like you crave it?
To me, my childhood was normalquote unquote normal. Yes, But

(10:03):
I know exactly what you mean,and that's what I'm saying. It's such
like a deep process and there's somany layers right to it. So I
mean, we I hate just hittingone layer at a time, but anyway,
but that is a layer of it, which is like our family system
has so much to do with whowe are. And you saying like it
was totally normal to me, Ididn't really think that I was missing out,

(10:24):
et cetera. True, but thereare some like human needs that we
all need to be met with,you know. And and again, your
parents' parents probably did the same thing, so they knew, like they all
they knew was this is normal,this is okay, this is what you
know. But then you come intodifferent culture, right that requires different things

(10:46):
or has you kind of open upto a different thing or different experiences that
now you're like, I am missingout on this, or I never received
that kind of love, or whenI do get that kind of of love,
I'm holding onto it because I've neverreceived it before. Yeah, the
thing you know, I don't wantto get too deep onto it. But

(11:07):
the thing I'm learning about is Inever knew about codependency. And that's what
man, that that's wild. SoI guess the second thing to that is
do you heat? Because people sayby going to therapy and taking the time
to heal, how do you doyou what? How do you heal?

(11:28):
Is it just because you're aware sonow you know? Yes, Okay,
So there's no such thing as likemy mind is now different. Like I'm
trying to understand how do you heal? Like do you train your brain type?
Of thing, or yeah, whatis the healing? What is what
is the prescription for that? That'ssuch a good question. I say,

(11:50):
healing is like a lifelong process.You know, I'm a therapist. You
answered all the things you said before, and I'm still healing. I feel
like I'm still I hear that alot friends that go to therapy. They're
like, no, I've been intherapy for years and it's a forever fight,
is what it feels like. Well, yeah, and it's not.
You don't have to be in therapyall your life, but you do have
to be self aware. So Ialways say, like self awareness is like

(12:11):
the key to change because if youcan just be honest with yourself, yeah,
literally, just be honest with yourself. And it's crazy how people have
the hardest time doing that because it'sscary to be honest with yourself. It's
scary to say, yeah, myego guests in the way quite a bit.
It's scary to say, yeah,I feel rejected when this person you

(12:31):
know did this. So it's sohard to admit those faults, right,
are those things that you struggle with? Yeah, But as soon as you
are honest with yourself and have selfawareness, well, guess what, Like
that is a catalyst to change,because next time you walk into a room
and somebody says something and you feelrejected and you're like, oh, that's
like my ego or that's me justfeeling my past abandonment or whatever it is

(12:52):
or rejection, then I can checkthat at the door, or I can
kind of like let go of thatin the moment and now I'm interacting with
this and in a different way,and that then creates change in the moment,
in the present moment. Right.So it's these little little things that
you do every single day with selfawareness or this like change that creates a

(13:13):
bigger change in your life. Likefor instance, like with me, when
I went to therapy, I waslike twenty something years old. I was
fighting depression and anxiety, and Istepped into a therapist's office like thinking like
they're gonna give me all like thetools to change, Like I'm gonna she's

(13:33):
gonna tell me A B and Cand you're I'm where you're I'm where you're
at with the story that you're saying, that's where I'm at at the moment.
Yeah, And then I get inthere and she's like, well,
how do you feel about them?I'm like, oh my god, I
don't know. You know, that'swhy I'm here tell me. But I
think what I realized that one ofthe most powerful sessions that I had with

(13:54):
her was I was sitting there talkingabout my now husband and I didn't know
who's gonna be my husband then,but he was so different. And I
remember telling her like, I don'tknow, like I don't know. I
was basically just pushing him away becausethe love that he was giving me I
was never used to receiving, youknow. I was just like, oh

(14:15):
no, like he's too nice orwhatever, right, and I just like
pushing him away. And she justone liner. She was like, you
know, you keep saying that youdeserve love, yet her love like is
in front of you and you justkeep pushing it away. It just seems
like what I think is like youjust don't feel like you deserve that love
and that like at that time,I fought her on it. I was

(14:37):
like, yeah, I do,like I totally know, I do all
that stuff. And then I wenthome and I thought about it, and
I was like, She's so right. All of my actions up until that
point were like I don't love myself. I was picking the guys that showed
that I was like doing the thingsthat just showed that I didn't love myself,
that I didn't feel deserving of that. And then once I had that
self awareness, I started to makebetter decisions about my life, you know.

(15:03):
And so that in itself just likechanged so much for me. So
I hear that a lot, especiallyin my sessions. The whole loving yourself.
Yeah, that's the current thing I'mworking on. But what is Just
give me one or two examples,because I'm trying to grasp that idea of
loving yourself because in my head Ithink I I think I love myself.

(15:24):
Yeah, that's a good question,Like what exactly does that mean? Yeah?
Like what am I supposed to bedoing? Yeah? A good way
to gauge that is like, thinkabout the one person that you love the
most. Okay, think about them? Okay, Now, like if you
if you think about them and yousay, if that person did this or
they were going through this, whatwould I tell them If you can do

(15:46):
that exact same thing, that wouldbe loving yourself or working towards loving yourself
more. Right, So, likea lot of times we'll tell people that
we love, like really great advice, or we'll give them grace or we'll
give them passion, or we'll belike, oh, don't worry about that,
like you made a mistake. Likeif we do that, man,
it just hit me. Yeah.Right, then we're like so angry with

(16:07):
ourselves or we make the wrong decisionsfor ourselves. It's that whole It's easier
said than done right exactly, Well, because you're doing it for somebody else,
yeah, exactly, you love foryourself. So I would say,
like a good gauge is like whateveryou tell the person that you love the
most, like do that to yourselfor tell yourself that and then follow it.
Wow, good advice. That thathit me big man. That that

(16:32):
one got me because yeah, Icould see it. What hits you about
that? Because, like I said, I every time they say, oh,
just you have to love yourself,I'm like, you never understood what
because I like myself, Like youknow, I'm working like physically I'm working
to better myself. But the mentalpart I never understood because I don't hate

(16:53):
me. Yeah, but it's thatthing that you said about what you would
tell someone you love, like ifyou gave them advice and stuff. Do
you give yourself that advice? Inever thought of it that way. Yeah,
because like I'm feeling something. Butthen what if I told myself you
know X y Z that that's likebig Yeah. Man, I can see

(17:18):
I can see like you're really gettinghit by a lot of these things.
Really turn this into a session realquick. I can see the impact like
it's making on you. I cansee it in your eyes and the way
you talk about it real quick.This is kind of switching subjects because you
brought it up, Jizoe. Youremember that thing you were asking you were
wondering if therapists see therapists? Yeah, so, and you just brought it

(17:40):
up that you saw do you Iknow that was more in your younger days,
but do you in your older days? I guess now? Do you
see therapy dding in your later years? Yes? Hell? Yes. Like
I always feel like if a therapistis like I don't need a therapist,
there's something wrong with that therapist,Like every therapist should be seeing a therapist
here there, Like right now wesee a couple therapists, my husband and

(18:03):
I because we're getting to that pointof like the kids are becoming teenagers.
We need to be on the samepage. It's our time to kind of
connect and like go deeper. Solike we feel like a couple therapy is
really good. Eventually we're gonna bringthe kids in and do some family therapy.
So I hell yeah, like definitely. But what is the difference though,
Because as a therapist, wouldn't youhave kind of the answers to the

(18:23):
test. Oh yeah, good one, I mean yes and no. So
like it's like it's very easy toknow the things but not practice the things.
You know. So because again,I'm human at the end of the
day, right, Like I'm human, and so I have my own defenses.
So there like might be something thatmy like let's say my husband says

(18:45):
to me that kind of hits memy inner child, right, and hits
my inner child, like he'll saysomething about, you know, hey,
I'm just making something up. Thehouse wasn't like really clean today when I
got home, and now my innerchild I was like, oh, I
wasn't good enough, right, Sothen I'll get defensive about it and like
yell or whatever, get angry becauseI'm a human at the end of the

(19:07):
day. But as a like,by going to therapy and couple's therapy,
Like we could talk about that issueand then I could like have a therapist
say, well, hey, itreally sounds like something else is getting triggered
here, Like what do you thinkthat is? You know, like let's
sit down with that for a while. And now it gives me a moment
to kind of drop in and havemy self awareness to where I'm like,

(19:27):
oh, yeah, well it doeskind of remind me of this, and
the next time we have that interaction, I know it's not him trying to
like down me or tell me I'mnot like good enough or I'm not a
good wife. Right, I'm nottaking it personally. So something that I've
always wondered about couple you brought upcouple's therapy. Is it for married people

(19:48):
only or do you do people alwaysdo you guys see couples that are just
dating? Yeah, I I wouldlove I would love every person that's thinking
about getting to get like and beingmarried to go see a therapist first and
continue that process for a while,because really what happens is like we usually

(20:08):
like pick our you know, asignificant other at like twenty three to like
thirty, Right, that's kind ofwhen people get married and that's such an
important time of your life because ifyou don't know yourself really and truly,
you're gonna pick a person that reallyspeaks to your wounds more than more than
your healing. Right. So that'swhy we pick these people that are speaking

(20:33):
more to our wounds, like fillingthat those parts up. And then by
like forty that's why there's so manydivorces is because by that time, you
know, you're the same things thatkind of brought you together are bringing you
apart. You're like, you know, not on the same page about the
kids, Like the kids have nowleft or something, and now it's just
you and them, and now youaren't getting along. So I really think

(20:57):
like getting their even when you're justdating. If you're thinking about getting married
or being in a relationship long term, definitely go and get couples counseling.
You know how you just mentioned thatyou find someone that feed Would you say
feeds feeds like your wound? Areyou trying to say that those relationships don't
work or not if you're not selfaware of working on it, you know

(21:18):
what I mean? Because again it'skind of like how to explain it,
Like let's say you talked about codependency. You know, it's kind of like
two people getting together that are wounded, like their inner children are wounded.
So let's say, gosh, I'mtrying to think of like one of my

(21:41):
couples. Let's say we have likea woman who at a very young age
was always like talked to in areally angry way by her father. Right,
she doesn't really trust men, butthen she gets with a man who

(22:02):
basically talks over her quite a bitand whatnot. But then there, even
though she doesn't trust men and shedoesn't like that, it makes her feel
like home. Right, It's likealmost like it feels like this is what
I'm used to. It's normal forher. So even though she knows in
a way she doesn't like it andit's wrong, she all like people usually

(22:23):
go back to what's normal for themthat makes sense, and then they never
really work it through, so thenthey're always arguing over the years, and
then that builds resentment, and thenthat builds people to like eventually like either
cheat on one another or hate oneanother or just get divorced. But if
that can be kind of like talkedabout right in the beginning, we're not

(22:44):
going to have that problem. Iimagine that when couples go to therapy they
want to know a lot of who'sright and who's wrong. Yes, And
I imagine that it's probably not alot of that, or is some of
it that it's not that, it'sa lot of like diving in deeper.
Like what I do with my couplesis like they'll come in and I will
ask each of them to tell meabout their family history. So we start

(23:06):
there, okay, like tell meabout your great grandparents, Like what was
a relationship, Like was there anyabuse, was there any alcohol or domestic
will anything? Right? Like,I'm just getting patterns, and what you'll
see is it's all kind of usuallypassed down generation through generation. And then
you get to themselves and they startto understand and realize like why they take

(23:29):
the way they tick, And thatin itself is just healing because now they
have like some kind of self awarenessas to like, oh, that's why
you know, that's why I dothat, or that's why he does that.
And I have the other person sitin the session with each other so
they can understand what this person hasgone through through, like their family system,

(23:49):
you know, so they don't takeit as personally because a lot of
us we just take things personally allthe time when we don't need to.
So all right, we let's switchthings up. Jesse and I always talk
about our anxieties. Yeah, canhave like what's one of our anxieties that
we always talk about, because Iknow we have like little ocd uh little
things that we do that for example, like on looking at my bank account,

(24:14):
I get anxiety if the numbers arenot you know, like evens are
odds or five? What else wetalk I meant anxiety. We get a
lot of work anxiety, that's forsure, making sure that things are done
on time when really we have likea lot of time to do it,
uh, not wanting people to likewait on us. Different things like that.

(24:34):
I deal with a lot of workanxieties or even sometimes I think about
other people's situations and that even givesme anxiety, which I feel is like
really bad. Is this the samething? It comes from our childhood?
Anxiety? Again multi layered, SoI mean I would have to like really
sit down and talk to you guysto don't know, but I think again

(24:56):
multi layered. One of the thingsabout anxiety too is like just our environment
and how like fast paced everything isnow, so that like I'm going to
kind of switch to yoga in away or mindfulness, right, because I
think that again, our society isjust so fast paced that we're always either
on the phone. You guys areall probably on social media quite a bit

(25:17):
because of your job, like allthe things that you have to do,
you're never really in the present moment, or you can't really just enjoy the
present moment. I think that's whatit is. I think for me,
I'm always always the moment I goto sleep to wake up, I'm always
thinking ahead, Like I literally havemy whole day planned out the moment I
wake up, and I'm thinking whileI'm doing something, I'm already thinking what
I'm doing next. And I thinkthat that planning for the future or thinking

(25:42):
about what I have to do whenit's not even here, is what always
messes me up. That's what alwaysdrives my anxiety crazy. And it's just
like what you said, it's alwaysme thinking ahead and I just can't help
it. I was just about tosay, like, what what can he
do to help it? Well,you know, it's kind of crazy to
this because again, well Taylor,the science behind worrying, right, is

(26:03):
that our brain is so crazy thatOkay, so you worry about a thing,
right, So you have a thoughtand you worry about that. Then
you kind of then think about whatyou could do to kind of maybe fix
it or help it. Right.As soon as you do that, your
brain shoots dopamine into your system,so you feel kind of good for a
second. So you just can't getout of that cycle because it feels good

(26:26):
to worry. So even though you'relike, I know I shouldn't be worrying,
it feels kind of good to worry, right because it's like I hit
a dopamine, so it's like thatfeel good, Like, ah, I
figure that out. Let's try anotherone, you know, like over and
over again. So you're in thislike loop or cycle. So that's why
I'm switching to mindfulness a little bit. Or because even in therapy I talk
about mindfulness of being really present orstaying present. Is that as soon as

(26:49):
you have a thought about the pastor the future, try to stay really
grounded in the present moment. AndI know this sounds really cheesy, but
to be like, you know,close your eyes, feel your heartbeat,
listen to your breath. Breathe inand out really deeply into your stomach.
When's the last time you, guys, took a deep breath into your stomach.
It's rare, it's not often.Mine was recently just because I was

(27:12):
going I was having an anxiety attackwhere my whole like the symptoms I get
is my whole body like shivers,my heart is pumping. So yeah,
I have to. Uh. Theone that I've kind of learned right now
is that tapping where I go,I tap my heart and breathe deeply.
I try like box breathing. It'sa method that I try to do.

(27:33):
But I mean, that's just myissue. I just I mean, it
makes me for one hell of aplanner. Like I'm a really good planner
because I'm always thinking ahead, butI just wish that I wouldn't. I
mean, the moment I wake up, I'm already thinking about like my day
till night, like, oh,this is what I'm gonna do, this
is the order I'm going to doit in and then boom, And that's
what's continually. Like right now,I'm already thinking what we're gonna do after
this podcast, and it kills me, Like here's that's a gift and curse,

(27:56):
right, Like the same thing thatmakes you really good at what you
do is the same thing that's likehurting you. But we can find balance,
and it is yeah, like findingbalance. And I think again,
like we're thinking. It's so fastpaced that we're thinking either about the past
or the future. And so ifyou think about again scientifically, what that
does is that it really revs upour autonomic nervous systems, so are sympathetic,

(28:18):
right, our fight flight freeze fawnfold response. So when when you're
always thinking, it's like imagine likerunning from a bear, like all day
long, because you're always having tolike run like through Like it's just like
exactly like thoughts and thoughts and thoughtslike running away, right. And so
then of course, like you're notbreathing properly, you're not in the present

(28:41):
moment. You're not able to restand digest like that parasympathetic nervous system of
like resting and relaxing. And that'swhy panic attacks happen is because your body
is constant fight or flight. It'sbasically telling you like, hey, I
need to slow down, you needto breathe. So instead of like getting
to the point of like just maybeyou know, the padding attack and then

(29:03):
I'm breathing, taking small little momentsthroughout the day, like to breathe deeply,
like you could be five minutes,it could be two minutes, you
know, Like the Apple Watch islike, hey, breathe, Like that's
really important to do. It's importantto like carve out time like when you're
in a place to like really justenjoy it. So right now you're like,
I'm already thinking about what to do, but like to really enjoy this

(29:26):
conversation. So you if you seeyourself like that kind of like going away
from here, coming back here andjust be like, let me stay present.
You know, all those things helpyou to feel more grounded in your
body, to feel safe, likeyou're not running from a bear all day,
so tappy into your parasympathetic throughout theday. More So, I've heard
that a lot, the grounding yourself, and I never understood that. But

(29:48):
all those things that you said,those are all examples of grounding. Yes,
yes, like small things right likeeven when I teach our present state,
as soon as my students come in, we start with grounding, like
five minutes of closing your eyes breathing, intention setting here today to learn from
one another, you know, kindof just like, hey, let's put
away all the things that we justcame in with and let's just be here

(30:11):
for the next you know, threehours that we're going to be here.
You just brought up right now whereyou what is it where you think to
yourself you repeat, you know,mantras or like sa affirmation. So that's
something that I'm trying. I don'tknow if I'm buying into that, because
okay, I could tell myself allthese things, I'm worthy of this,
this, this, Yeah, whatis that really doing? I don't know,

(30:34):
is it or is me fighting it? Going? Like yeah right,
like me saying is going to happen? Is that counterproductive? Yes? Oh
so it's almost like I have toreally believe it. Well you don't have
to, you know, fake ittill you make it kind of thing.
It's it's a practice, like you'repracticing something that doesn't feel like normal to
you. So it's different, andI think you're just being human, Like

(30:57):
there's no need to like beat yourselfup about it. Like it is hard.
It's hard to take the deep breaths, it's hard to stay present,
it's like you're human, you know. And for I always say, like
for this many years you've been trainedthis way, you're basically training your whole
mind and body, you know,to be something different than what it has
been. So it's going to takesome time. So it's just practice.

(31:18):
Like I think, what it doesthe affirmations especially, is like it just
kind of reminds you. It's anotherway of helping you to stay really present.
I like how your anxiety comes from, like thinking ahead. Mine is
worrying the unknown. That my anxietyis a lot of unknown. That's when
I get I start panicking when Ihave no not control or is that what

(31:44):
it is like? No answers.Yeah, well I'm worried about a situation
that I don't even know who's reallygoing to happen Yetah, I mean I
make stories in my head. Yeah. Well you think of the negative,
right? Yeah? Do you thinkabout the worst? You just you just
can't help it. Yeah. Ithink that's an issue I have, is
I think the worst and then unfortunatelysometimes I'll react to it. Yes,

(32:07):
and it didn't eat, that didn'teven happen yet, but it's too late.
I already made that reaction. SoYeah, that's something that I'm dealing
with. I always try to tellmyself, like don't don't worry about it
twice essentially like if it is goingto happen, then just worry then,
Like what's the point in worrying aboutit now because you're just worrying about it
twice, Like you're worrying about itnow and then you're gonna wry about when

(32:28):
it happens. So that's kind oflike what I tell myself. It helps
a little bit. Yeah, likeI'm trying to figure I'm trying to figure
it out. I'm sorry now,I was just say worrying it is like
a rocking chair. You can goback and forth, but it's cute anywhere.
But yeah, I mean that's soagain I think very normal. I
think a lot of people do that, is that they just worry. And
again, we had we talked multilayered, right, we talked talked about

(32:49):
your past. It could also belike the science behind like worrying and like
how it hits you with dopamine eachtime. It could be like also not
sitting in the uncomfortable Like a lotof people don't know how to just sit
in discomfort, Like how many ofus are taught that throughout our lives,
Like, hey, this is howyou sit in discomfort? No, like
especially now, right, Like wehave phones to distract us, We have

(33:14):
you know, any kind of likealcohol, or we have substances just to
distract us from not feeling good.How many of us are taught to like
just sit in discomfort, Yeah,to just be uncomfortable of not knowing?
No one, No one teaches usthat. No, we're always worrying about
something. Yeah, and then weget away from it, right, either

(33:36):
like getting on our phone and googlingit or figuring it out, or like
just escaping into like social media world, or like going and getting some drinks
with your friends. Like, nobodyjust is like taught, like how do
I sit in discomfort and be okaywith that? Because it is a human
emotion and we should be able tolearn how to like just invite that in
a little bit more. Speaking ofsitting alone, something else that I've heard

(33:59):
a lot of is like people aresaying you need to learn how to be
okay to be by yourself. Butfor a personal like me, I feed
off energy. I don't know ifit's just even my DJ career when I
DJ at the clubs. I needthat energy from the crowd for me to
put on a better show. Yes, I feel like that's how I am

(34:20):
with my life too, And peopleare like, maybe it's my codependency where
I depend on other energy to makeme feel better. Is there any tips
of like how do you just beokay just being by yourself? M Well,
I mean it's not going to feelgood at first, like because you're
not used to it. So again, it's kind of like training yourself to
just be in an uncomfortable moment.So like, like what comes up for

(34:42):
you when you're by yourself? Someanxiety and boredom? And yeah, I
mean yeah, And so like whatdo you usually do then? Like reach
out? Yeah, like hit upsomebody. You guys want to play golf,
You guys want to go up tolunch? Yeah, so maybe like
sitting in the discomfort, like creatingyourself to just be in the discomfort for
a while, you know what Imean. Like, and again, that

(35:05):
doesn't feel good, That's what I'msaying. Like we then will reach out
and do something and do whatever,but like putting your phone away, you
know, for like even an hour. You don't have to like do it
all at once, Cold Turkey,just like little by little by little,
like just being with yourself more andsitting in the discomfort of what comes up
for you. So know that you'reuncomfortable, but you kind of have to
tell yourself like nope, just stayhere, be uncomfortable. Yeah, okay,

(35:27):
Yeah, that's sort of like howyou program yourself to kind of deal
with it. Yeah exactly, Andlike you know, techniques like breathing or
like journaling, reading, like allthose are all things that you can kind
of like come back to yourself alittle bit. That's why again I'm gonna
keep bring up yoga because I loveyoga too, but yoga is really important
too in that because it helps youto stay in your body right, and

(35:49):
even in therapy. That's kind ofone of the things that I like,
I really love my patience to dois like I people are always like you're
sick, nan Tara, but I'mlike, I love watching people cry because
I love that they release something inthe moment. And the first thing that
people want to do when they cryin my office is like I'm sorry and

(36:10):
like, you know, wipe upright, And I'm like, like you're
in a therapist's office. You cancry, you know, but I'm always
like, well, what you know, you just said sorry, tell me
more about that. Well, likeI feel really, you know, sad,
Like I feel vulnerable right now,I feel weak and okay, so
like just lean into that feel thata little bit more, allow yourself to
just let go, right. Islike I'm helping them to stay in the

(36:34):
moment and that moment doesn't feel good. That moment is pain. But like
there's the old like quote that Ilove, and it says, the cure
for the pain is the pain.A good cry gets you tired to and
then you relax, You just knockout. Yeah, I remember that as
a kid, when you know,when you would cry as a kid and
then you would just sleep there relax. For some reason, that's happened to

(36:58):
me recently. Have you done yogaJizzo before? I've tried. Yoga's hard.
Yeah, it's all these poses.We recently went to this spot and
we took a yoga class, andit's hard, especially for like a big
guy like me, Like, what'swhat can anyone do yoga? Yes,

(37:20):
because you can't do all the moves. Yeah, I know, Well you're
not supposed to that's what you goto yoga, you can start to like
get more flexible. And again,yoga is not just the moves like it's
also like the breathing and the meditationand like a way of life really is
what yoga is. So I mean, definitely anybody can breathe mindfully, that's
doing yoga. So it's all rightfor like a guy that just he could

(37:44):
go in the back of the roomand yeah, you go in the back
and go to the front like anywhere. You know what I've been seeing lately.
You know, we're in the generationof we're on our phones all the
time, social media, TikTok.I don't know what it is about algorithms,
but when you're going through something,the algorithms on your phone, you
know, if it's basketball season,that's all you see. I've been seeing

(38:05):
a lot on my TikTok, thesemini clips of therapists, different therapies,
sessions or little things that have todo with any subject. What do you
think about the you know, canpeople just go to TikTok And I don't
need to go to therapy because TikTokis helping really because there's like doctors on
there. Yeah, quote unquote,there's hundreds hundreds of whatever subject you're dealing

(38:28):
with, they do little clips ofhow to, you know, kind of
get you through that thing. Yeah, I'm so glad you asked that question
because I feel like it's there's likeevil and good in this, you know,
It's like it does destigmatize mental health, and I love that and it
gets people kind of curious about mentalhealth. But there is something about being

(38:50):
in person with a therapist, likehelping them, helping you to like really
feel what you already maybe know.So something that I know is so different
when I experience it in my heart. Right, So I might know that
I struggle with anxiety, okay,But when I'm in a therapist's office and

(39:12):
anxiety, a feeling of anxiety comesup, and that professional is saying,
hey, stick with that for asecond. Hold on to that, Like,
notice what comes up for your bodywhen you feel that? Where do
you feel that in your body?Now? Somebody is holding me in that
moment of discomfort and I'm feeling thatanxiety. And you're not going to be
able to do that on your own. You're just not You're not a machine.

(39:36):
You're a human. So as soonas you. Like, let's say
you hear something on TikTok and they'relike, well, just do this when
you feel anxiety. You might feelthat anxiety in the moment and try and
do something, but it's not goingto get you to the point of a
therapist, like in person, helpingyou to go through that feeling it,
helping to stick with it. It'sjust a different experience. You got to

(39:57):
heal it to feel it makes sense. And also this is almost skewed as
well too, because they're only goingto try to look for what they want
to hear. Yeah, exactly.I mean again, it's all defensiveness,
you know, it's like all egokind of defensiveness. And yeah, it's
like what the filter from how wesee things is different for all of us,
how we see things and how wehear things. So they're gonna hear

(40:19):
what they want to hear. Areally good therapist is going to confront you
on some shit you don't want tohear, you know, like you don't
want to hear it. Like Ihate to call you out, but when
I was saying I really see youfeeling that, I could see you being
like, shut up, don't gothere, don't go there, let's go
out of the podcast. Yeah,but if you're in my you're in my

(40:40):
office, I'd be like, Ican see like what you're doing here,
Like I can see you trying torun from that, you know what I
mean. So I don't think thatyou're going to be able to do that
on your own. Now, touse that as an example, because you
are a therapist and you do havecasual conversations with people, do you find
yourself not just because you can't helpit, but sort of like kind of

(41:02):
dissecting people a little bit when they'rejust talking, like in a random conversation
because you just know these things.Yes, but I don't, Yeah,
I don't. I'm not judging,and I swear I'm not judging people.
Know that I'm at the state andthe age as well to where I don't
care. Yeah, I'm not.I'm not judging people. I'm just like

(41:23):
people say things and I'm so usedto Yeah, I like hearing the words
behind the words, right, Sopeople say a whole lot of things,
but it's their voice tone is howthey say this, their eyes like the
shift and voice like that. I'mjust trained to like like just see now,
so I'll they'll be like I don'tgive a ship, like I don't

(41:44):
care about her and whatever, andI'm like, you do you know the
bullshit? Sometimes you and I dothat. You're like, we could see
it. Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's just being tuned in a little
bit more. Okay, what areyou teaching at state right now? Oh?
Wait, I had a question.Let me let me back up real
quick. It almost kind of goeswith what Jess was asking. You're hearing

(42:07):
all these you have different clients,can we Is it fair to say over
fifty? Yeah? At one point, Yeah, you're hearing all these issues
and trauma. Does it affect you, like I have all these people's stories
inside me? Yeah, it does. I used to well, okay,

(42:28):
so it's like, again, it'ssuch a long answer. When I was
younger, it used to affect meto the point where like, because I
don't just hear their stories, Ifeel them, and I'm just an EmPATH
or whatever, so I will feelwhat they're saying to me and my body,
and so i'd go home and i'dbe really tired, and I didn't
know why until I started realizing,like, oh, I've got to be

(42:50):
able to move this around somehow,like whether it be working out or walking
or whatever. It got to apoint where I used to work with kids
and then I had my own kids, and then I just could not I
could not be affected because I wasreally getting angry with some of these parents.
I mean one of the parents,you know, basically put this like
five year old on the bus andmade him hide all day long in the

(43:13):
bus because they wanted to go partywith their friends. Like and I know
that's a multi you know, that'slike a generational mental health thing, but
I just couldn't not judge the parent, right, So I knew I kind
of had to get out from that. And then it got to the point
where now I I I do kindof like feel it in my body.
I can, I can like Iabsorb it, but I have ways of

(43:36):
like really letting that go now.So but it is it's a lot.
It's I mean, that's got tobe tough because I mean you're hearing people's
like sometimes deep dark secrets or youknow, things that they're going through,
and as you said, even likekids, like as a human, that's
got to like really affect you,you know, yeah, like the vicarious
trauma, like you know, alot of first responders have like nurses and

(43:59):
you know, doctors, our techniciansall the things. Like it's a lot
like that. If you have afriend or a family member that you know
that saying you can't fix someone,Yeah, is there anything a person can
do if if if I have afriend or a family member that this person
would would kind of would well,what's the word I'm looking for, like

(44:22):
benefit it would benefit from it?Yeah? Is there the one party can
do? Or it's on them?Yeah, it's yeah, it's on them.
And I'm really I'm really learning.I keep learning that lesson over and
over again, Like you know,you can be there for them and support

(44:42):
them, but I think it's alsovery exhausting when you keep saying the same
thing over and over and over againand nobody listens, right, and like
then you feel like it's your jobto make them change. It's not like
it has to come from them.It has to but it is really sad
to watch, like, especially especiallysomebody like you, who are like,
dude, is changing my life,Like this shit works like go you know,

(45:06):
and then they're like like no,I don't believe in that. You're
like come on, that that's thateasy, but it has to come from
them. Even with my family,I have to just kind of let it
go. That's tough. Do youspecialize in a certain area or I mean,
like meaning couples, is it onlymarriage and family? So like meeting
a licensed marriage and family therapist meansthat I've just been trained a different way,

(45:29):
Like I see the whole system,or a psychotherapist, you know,
they're trained a different way. Butyeah, I see anyway. I see
individuals, couples, I see families. But now because I do all those
other different things, I basically justsee like adults and they just need very
like low level of care, Likethey are pretty self aware already. They

(45:51):
just kind of want to come inand talk about, you know, the
next stage of life or things thatare happening for them. Have you ever
been in a situation where you hadto report something? Oh? Yeah,
really anytime. So I worked forFresnel County for four years in the school
based program. So I was atlike different different high schools and elementary schools
throughout the Presnel County area. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. In the beginning

(46:15):
of like my every session, theysay that you know, everything's confidential xactly.
Yeah, you're talking about Yeah itmakes sense. Yeah, that totally
makes sense. Something I just didrecently. Let me know what you think
about this is it's my first timegoing to therapy. I had my first
three sessions was with a female,and I learned a lot in the first

(46:38):
two. The third one I justdidn't get anything out of it. I
wasn't vibing. So I had friendswho are like switch. I'm like,
what switch and they're like, yeah, you could switch, like find someone
else. So at first, atfirst I was gonna. I was thinking
of this email of like I'll sayI have to do this, but I

(47:01):
stopped myself and I also a friendalso kind of kind of suggested too,
and I was like, you knowwhat, I'm just gonna tell the truth,
like and it was almost what Ilearned. You know, you taught
me about setting boundaries, so youknow what, Like, I'm gonna try
someone else. This is my firsttime in therapy, and I want to

(47:22):
see what's out there and what worksfor me. So I have like this
gentleman. Now he's more like justhe lets me talk and then he gives
me homework, like he pulls upslides and so I'm more a visual learner.
So it helps me a lot.So so far, you know,
to sessions with this new guy.So good, so far, so good.

(47:42):
But oh but my question is itwas you know switching? Is that
a common thing. Do you gethurt if someone like leaves leaves you?
No, not at all, notat all. Like I think that if
you're a good therapist, like you'regonna know that not everybody's gonna love your
style. You know. I'm morelike the feeling based and you know,
emotionally focused type of like client centeredtherapists. Some people are just more cognitive.

(48:06):
Some people are just like more youknow, they're just all these different
theories out there as a therapist andsome really stick with some people and some
don't. So for me, I'malways like I tell my clients, if
I don't work out for you,like, I'll be happy to help you
find the person that does. Soyeah, back to that question that what
do you What are you teaching atPresdent State? I teach in the Master's

(48:29):
Program for Marriage and Family Therapy,so so future therapists. Yeah, even
school counselors and higher ed counselors andrehab counselors. So I teach like the
core one of the core classes thatall of them take, and then I
also teach a practicum course. Ohyeah, so I mean, what what
is your background in that? Andsay someone did want to become a therapist,

(48:49):
like what do they how do theyhave to go through that if they
want to become a licensed marriage andfamily therapist. So it's it's a long
process. It's you know, youget your masters in some like a master's
in counseling, and then you woulddo three thousand hours of like individual couples,
family like face to face and youlog that. I think like these

(49:09):
days it's a little bit easier tokind of get those hours. About three
years is kind of like the average. To get those hours, you are
getting paid. They're called associates,so you're getting paid throughout that process.
But at the end of that process, you take well you take one one
test in the beginning, like anethics test, and then you take one

(49:30):
at the end, like a comprehensivetest to get licensed. And so at
the end of three years, youtake that second test and if you pass,
like your licensed therapist. So theydon't need it to get your doctrine.
No, you don't need your doctorOh wow. We also mentioned you're
an ambassador for Lululemon like I usedto be. I'm called what am I

(49:51):
called? Now? I forget I'mcalled a something ambassador? Oh okay,
Yeah. How did that partnership comeabout? Do you reach out to them
or they reached out to me?I also am a founder of a nonprofit
called them As Day for Compassion,So we provide free yoga to under certain
populations and have provided like money toorphanage in India. We built it well

(50:15):
in Africa, So I think theyjust kind of saw the work that we
were doing in the community and reachedout to me. Where are you doing
the yoga at? Where can people? Like do people just come in?
Is at a yoga studio? Yeah? I teach our four Corners yoga,
but that's at his studio. Butwe have free classes for the community at
Crow and Wolf every Tuesday at firstTuesday of the month. And then we

(50:39):
also provide yoga to the boys andgirls at Juvenal Justice Campus at JJC.
And then you have your private practice. It's on cedarn Herndon correct. Huh
Mo told us like, can wesay how much you are for hours?
So we say that should they findout when they go to you, or
they can find out. Okay,Okay, I'll be plugging it like that,

(51:00):
she gave, she gave this.Okay, let's kind of wrap it
up with this. You know,we started this thing about men's mental Men's
Mental Health Month and about sometimes it'shard for us to take that step to
want to go. What are somesteps if someone's thinking about, you know,

(51:23):
listening to this podcast episode and like, you know, let me try
this thing, what what are somesteps? Because for us fortunately here working
for iHeart, it comes in ouryou know, workday, we see it
that is available to us. Sowe're fortunate enough to have this that's available
to us. But yeah, whatwould you know somebody out there listening,

(51:47):
what would what steps do they taketo starting to find a therapist. Yeah,
that's a great question. And I'mgoing to be one hundred percent honest,
Like, it's very hard to finda good therapist. So the first
kind of advice is don't give up, you know, and switch if you
have to. But the first kindof process would be to ask yourself,

(52:07):
am I going to go through insuranceor I'm going to do private pay?
And if you want to do insurance, then what you would do is contact
your insurance company ask them if theycover individual or couples counseling. Most of
the time they will, but it'sonly like a limited about amount of sessions.
And if they do, then theygive you a list of providers and

(52:28):
they reach out to the providers.The thing about insurance is like a lot
of my therapist friends that take insuranceare full, Like they're just full,
and it's hard right to kind ofget in. But I would say get
on a wait list if you reallylike a therapist, or if you have
like good recommendation of the therapist,I get on a wait list, but
keep trying to maybe see other therapists. If it's private pay, it's more

(52:52):
likely that you're probably going to getin because not a lot of people do
the private pay. It's a lotof money, you know. And even
once you get in, if youdon't like that therapist or you guys aren't
vibing, give it about three goes. If mine was four, I gave
it. I gave it four goes. Yeah, I mean some people say,
like the first time, they're like, this person's crazy. And there

(53:13):
are like a lot of not veryhealthy therapists out there, you know,
so like it doesn't fit or doesn'tvibe like, find another therapist. But
it is a process and it doestake a while to find somebody that's good.
Some people get really lucky in thebeginning. Are you still taking patients
in like today? I am not. I'm actually like reducing my client caseload

(53:34):
now because I also am started ayoga teacher training program here in president California,
so we're doing that as well.So nice. Yeah, is there
any like how many people can youknow, can people contact you for details
about anything the yoga or business lineor social media. I have an email
that can contact me. It's helpat Niantara lm FT dot com. So

(53:58):
I don't know if you know theknow how to spend my name, but
the name will be in the descriptionof our podcast. There you go.
Man. That what a fun episode. Man, And I know you got
some out of this. I reallyreally did. I really did not good
information. I'm thank you for answeringthese questions that you know, I personally
had and think some of the thingsthat we talked about, and uh,

(54:20):
it was it was it was good. It was a good one. Appreciate
that. Yeah, thank you.MOE for connecting us. Yeah. Well,
you guys asked some really great questions, you know, and again I
wish I could answer them all likein such detail, but there's so many
layers to to therapy. Like well, off the book a session with you
ladies and gentlemen. Nintara Rodriguez,thank you so much, Thank you,