Why Ben McCollum Can Create a Top 10 Program in Iowa City | WUW 598

In this latest episode, we bring on Zach Schneider, a former player and assistant coach under Ben McCollum at Northwest Missouri State University. Zach shares his unique insights into Coach McCollum's strategies, philosophy, and the incredible journey that led McCollum to become the head coach of the Iowa Hawkeyes men's basketball team. We delve into everything from game tactics and player development to the nuances of team culture and the unique challenges of recruiting in the modern era. Don't miss this in-depth discussion that sheds light on what the future holds for Hawkeyes basketball under Coach McCollum's leadership!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Really fun guests on the show today. This one came
out of nowhere. Love when He's falling our lab. Zach
Schneider joins the show. Played for and then coached for
Ben McCollum. Hit me up and said, Hey, I want
to tell you why coach McCollum is going to have
the Hawkeyes as a top ten program over the next
fifteen years of Big Ten basketball. I said, say no more,
Let's have a chat. I think you'll really enjoy this one.

(00:21):
Sit back, grab the popcorn and relax. Let's have a day.
Let's go. Welcome into the podcast, everybody. We're just talking

(00:53):
Nuggets Clippers might be the conversation today. We got a
really fun guest on today. Zack Schneider joins the show.
I got a message in my inbox my DMS a
couple of weeks ago. This is this Zach guy. He's like, hey,
our daughters go to the same daycare. And I was like,
oh shit, this shows how much I pay attention. And

(01:13):
he's like, I happen to play and coach for Ben McCollum.
I might be able to provide an interesting perspective. And
I was like, damn, we've had a lot of people
ask or say that they could come on the pod
for an episode, but I don't usually oblige. But that's
hard to turn down a guy who played for and
then coached for Ben McCollum. So, Zach, welcome to the show.
We're super excited today. You've got the Tiger Hawk on.

(01:36):
So even though you're a bear Cat, you're also you're
also a Hawkeye.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
That's correct.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, I appreciate you guys having me on and happy
to share any insights with coach mccollm. And you know,
the future iye with basketball can obviously played at Northwest
but my my parents and I mentioned this to you.
Tyler grew up in Cedar Rapid, so my dad went
to the u OFI for six years, and you know,
I grew up in Kansas City. But you know, the
Tiger Hawk is always kind of you know, just I've

(02:03):
associated with family because we'd always go back to Iowa
City for football games and seed the Rapids to see
my both parents side of the family.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
So, you know, been a bear Cat like you mentioned,
but also claiming the Hawkeyes. Even though it didn't get
to school.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
There was that the dream.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
You know, it would have been nice.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
I just I was pretty you know, realistic with my
college options. I knew I was gonna be below the
power five level, and just whenever it came time to choose,
you know, Northwest, I felt was the best option. A
lot of that reason was just due to, you know,
coach mccollan being there and how I felt with the
staff and players at the time. So you know, I
would have loved to play it at Iowa, but you know,

(02:41):
it just wasn't in the cards coming out of high school.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
So, I mean, for anybody listening, Zach and I don't
know each other. So my my little bit of research
for this was like, okay, let's search this guy's profile
on Northwest Missouri State brother six seven. Were you a
shooting guard?

Speaker 2 (02:57):
So you'll see this with some of Max offense.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
He plays a lot of pick and pop fours, So
I rarely put the ball on the floor. My ball
handling skills are well below average. But I did shoot
a lot of threes, which I'm sure it's all.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
So you shot so many three pointers and you averaged
like nearly forty five percent.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, I shot it pretty well.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
I mean a lot of it was Max teams and
it began with some of the guys that I played
with always had really elite point guards, just elite playmakers,
and we'd set a ton of ball screens for them,
and they draw a ton of attention. So you know,
naturally his teams had to have shooting around those really
elite playmakers to kind of take some of the attention

(03:39):
off of them, create space on the floor. And I
just happened to be one of those guys that was
the benefit of a lot of really good players around me.
And I had a pretty simple job at the end
of the day, is just sit out there and cast threes,
and I was not shy about getting them up.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
So hopelly, I'm sure you saw that in the stat line.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
So elite man like, yeah, so its not a basketball player.
I played, But I was not a basketball player. My
mom used to describe me as a just a full
back on the basketball court. Averaged a solid five points
five rebounds my senior year high school at the ESTE

(04:18):
at the esteem Marshalltown High There you.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Go, but there, I'm sure you a hell of a
rebounder and defender of the dude.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Effort guy. Effort guy. But the one thing that I
can relate to is my junior and senior year. We
were just absolute grenade launchers. I mean we just shot
from all over the floor, like two years in a row.
Number I think you can go still see the stats today,
like look it up from twelve fifth God, how long
was that? Twelve thirteen years ago? Most threes attempted in

(04:48):
the state by any team, any class, and I think
by proxy, even though we weren't a great percentage like team,
we still made the most too. And it was we
also lost a ton of games because we were they
couldn't do anything else.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Sounds like fun while doing it though.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
It was so fun, dude, it was so fun. I
when I got on there to look at your stats,
and I know this isn't necessarily about you, Zach, but
I want to set them. I want to set the
store the stage here. Uh because and and you're I
want to build your credibility because uh. I was like,
I don't, okay, this guy played, he coached, so maybe
he's one of those guys. It was like, okay, this

(05:25):
was this guy was a he was a team guy,
he was an effort player, became a GA. There's a
lot of guys who like become coaches, who are like
I just you know, the next level was never for them,
so they were going to always going to be a
coach or something. Dude, you you came in, you didn't
start the first year at Northwest, but then you started
for the three years after that, you shot like forty

(05:45):
plus percent from three. You have the most Maybe it's
been broken now, but you at the time when you left,
you had the most three pointers made in program history.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah, that's uh, that's correct. So, like you said, I
came into.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
A really good program and Mac this would have been
probably his fourth or fifth year.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
His first two years, I think they had a losing
record just thirty year they won the conference title, and
then you know, kind of Northwest Missouri basketball as it's
known today, took off. So I was a freshman in
twenty thirteen, played twenty minutes a game.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
We made the Sweet sixteen.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Ended up losing to the eventual national champion, and then
over the course of the next few years play played
a lot of minutes and we had a you know,
really good, really good team, like I mentioned, really good
guards around me. We won a national title, our first
in program history my senior year, and kind of I
always like claim to fame in the business world, you know,

(06:37):
just quick elevator pitching myself. My career is my senior year,
I took somewhere around two hundred and thirty two hundred and.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Forty threes, and I took four two pointers, six kids.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
I made three out of four of those twos.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
And you know, I always give Max shit like you
just never let me do anything else except stand out
there and shoot threes, which once again is not the
worst job in the world.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
But yeah, I mean we we had really good teams. Uh,
you know, a lot.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Of individual success as well, and then just stayed on
with Mac a little bit just because I wasn't entirely
sure what I was going to do, and we just
had such a good program and culture down there in
Maryville that I wanted to, you know, stay and be
a part of that. So turned into six grade careers
on the staff and certainly pumped to see what he
can do at the University of Iowa.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
I don't care how good of a team you had
to make that many threes.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, I mean, like you you were.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Pretty good, my guy, like that was that was that
was decent. And you had at six seven, which is
just your life. Like I know, you don't know anything different,
but dude, if I was six seven, I would have
been dunking so much.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, well that was the thing.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
It's like, if I want to get on the floor,
I had to be really good at something, and I
was never going to be athletic.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
That was that was something that I just lacked.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
My vertical is probably you know, I've gott I've gotten
a lot more in shape over the last couple of
ye years, but it was getting down to maybe the
sing single digit range at one point. I mean, I'm
you know, I cannot jump at all, I do.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
You know.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
I am able to move my feet so I could
guard and move latterly, but you know, just explosive ability
was not there.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
So I had it.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
You know, once again, going back to shooting, I had
to figure out something to get on the floor.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
And you know, Mac.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
And this will be common theme throughout the episode, just
puts guys in a position to be efficient and play
to their strengths. And that's what he was able to
do with me with some really good talent around it.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
You spent how many seasons as a GA assistant coach
whatever roles?

Speaker 3 (08:38):
That was, Yeah, so I graduated after four years in
the program in seventeen, was at GA in eighteen nineteen,
assistant coach for two or three years, and then associate
head for another.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Two or three years, and then go get head coach.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, yeah, you must have been doing something right.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, I mean we we won a lot of games.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
So I I think his mentality was probably, you know,
I want to keep this guy around, keep the program rolling,
So it's humbled.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Guy's humble kept.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Naturally moving up the ladder, had a few staff members
move on that allowed, you know, rolls above me to
open up and just put my head down. Worked hard
for Mac, and like I mentioned, we had we had
just a ton of great people at Northwest in our
program and those people.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Played a large part in the success of our program.
So it was fun to be around.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
So your last year was twenty two eason, so the
twenty two to twenty three season, and then my wife
and I moved to Des Moines in the fall of
twenty three.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
And you decided to get out of coaching.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Decided to get out of coaching.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, it was you know, I knew Mac was trying
to move up, had been for a couple of years,
entertained a lot of different jobs that just didn't fit
the bill obviously found one to drake his past season
that did, and you know, it was just time for
a new challenge for me professionally. I don't think I
saw my myself being in the coaching profession for another
twenty five thirty years and moving up and fighting to

(10:05):
be a Division one head coach wasn't overly exciting, So
I figured it was probably time to try something else
and solve new problems.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
So that's how was kind of how I came. Yeah,
it's a.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Grind of a career if you choose it's it's similar
to coaching, especially if you're like trying to do it
at the highest level.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Is it is, and it's you know, it's tough on
your family as well. Not that there were just a
bunch of different factors that went into it. But you know,
Mac is forty three and the head coach of the
University of Iowa. But he also put in two years
as a GA Division two, was an assistant coach into Portia, Kansas,
came back fifteen years at Northat So there it's.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
A long path, like you mentioned, very long path.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
What was it about from a player perspective, you going
and you know you're eighteen years old, Like, what what
other opportunities did you have coming out of high school
And what was it about coach McCollum when you were
a kid coming out at eight team that attracted you
to him and his program?

Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, I just had a few other local Division two's
and at the end of the day, just being around him,
you know, the recruiting process was probably four to five
months for me being around him and his staff, all
former guys that played at Northwest with him or for him,
it just felt like that family atmosphere that a lot

(11:25):
of programs pitch but you don't actually feel.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
When you're there.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
I remember going up in the spring of my senior
year of high school and playing with the guys and
it just felt like a natural fit. So, you know,
at the end of the day, decided it was the
best fit hour forty five from home in Kansas City,
and you know, the rest is kind of history.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
You get onto his coaching staff and what is the
takeaway Like, are you immediately like sort of enamored with
the coaching side and seeing him in a different way
after you just were sort of you know, you're the
player and now the coaching role is a whole lot different.
Was it cool to see your coach in a different

(12:03):
light for them those six years and what did you like?
What was the new respect that you gained for him?
And you know, probably opened up your mind in a
lot of ways to the game of basketball and everything.
But that's that's interesting because I've had, you know, former
teammates that played and then ga I've heard them describe
their experience being on the other side, being in the

(12:23):
meetings with the coaches when the when the players aren't there.
They're like, yeah, it's a little it's a little bit weird.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
They tuk a lot of shit on you guys.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, the takeaway was but no, I mean there's there's
certainly a different level of respect that you see. I mean,
we're we're around them four to five hours a day
when you're in the season traveling, so you see a
lot of the work that they put in. But when
you're on the other side of things, sitting on that bench,
you know, you just see the extra three hours. Okay,

(12:54):
we just got done with the practice at six pm,
but now he's going back to watching another three hours
of film just so he can prepare his guy to
be the most successful, and he you know, once again
sacrifices a lot of time with his family to put
the program in the best position that they could be
to compete, you know, game in and game out, and
eventually for championships at the end of the season. So

(13:15):
I would say just the the unseen hours is probably
the biggest takeaway from.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Being on that side. But at the same time, like
he is still the same person.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
Some people have a different persona upfront with their players.
He's that authentic person when dealing in his staff as well,
and I think a lot of people respect that.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
You he obviously gets the Drake job and then they
go crazy this year, like just immediate and then the
whirl win at the end, you know, they lose a
tournament game in within three days. He's ioway head coach.
What is that like from your perspective, Like watching that happens,
You've got to be so hype, like, oh my god,

(13:57):
this is just all happening for him.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
Yeah, it was a really special year for a lot
of reasons. I Mean, one, I was really close with
Max still am. My wife and his wife are close.
And then I've gotten to know his kids really well. Obviously,
his daughter was born the freshman my freshman year fall
and now she's in sixth grade, which is nuts.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
So I know their whole family really well.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
They live five minutes north of west of Wuakee. And
then I played with a lot of his staff from
this past year's Avid Kuruth, Bryce and Williams who are
going to follow him.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, over over to Iowa.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
So just watching them front row and then having the
four guys from Northwest Isaiah, Bennett, Daniel and Mitchell. I
coached for you know, Bennett for one year and the
other guys for three to four years and recruit a
lot of those guys. So to watch them have the
success they did in the Valley kind of in a

(14:52):
way validated what we had done at Division two for
so many years. You know, we had a lot of
success over the last decade, and it was all it's
just kind of like, well, yeah, I mean but Division two, right,
But to watch those guys go thirty one and three
in a really good mid major league and beat Missouri
at the end of the year down in wichital was
was really special. And then just the whirlwind once again

(15:14):
that you mentioned like three days later he's the coach
at Iowa.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
I don't think has really hit me.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
I mean personally, it's super cool, just because I've been
a longtime Hawkeye fan and you know obviously my history
with Mac, and it's yeah, hopefully he's there for fifteen
to twenty years and he's able to compete for national championships,
but it's going to be incredible to watch.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Well, that's how you started the message, or I guess
finished the message. The original DM was like, I want
to like, I want to tell you how I believe
coach mccolly will have the Hawkeys And maybe it was
a little bit of a pitch to like get to like,
you know, try and stick out somehow to get me

(15:54):
to bring you on. Which I listened to Coach Mac
in his I'm not going to call him coach Matt,
coach McCollum. I don't know him like that, but everybody
probably calls him Mac. I'm sure correct. I listened to
his opening press conference and there's uh, it's a little
of the same. When I listen to coach Leicester, the

(16:14):
new oc for football team, it's so fun to listen
to them talk about their philosophy, and like, I don't
even like basketball, you know, like, and I like, this
is a football show. Grant gives me shit because I
don't even watch football. I definitely don't watch a lot
of basketball. I'll probably watch more Iowa basketball this year

(16:37):
than I ever have. Yeah, but when you can listen
to a coach who coaches a sport that you don't
even follow and you're just dialed in, there's something there.
There's something special about that, and coach McCollum certainly fit
the bill there. And you're like, I I want to
tell you why. I think he could have them as

(16:59):
a top ten mens basketball program in the next fifteen years.
And that's a fun statement. And the goal probably for
any power conference school right is like, Hey, we're trying
to be top ten, top fifteen, top twenty perennial tournament.
You know, team team that gets to the sweet sixteen
makes a run every once in a while. Why in general,

(17:22):
from a we'll dive deeper into it, but why does
coach mac have what it takes to take a bunch
of D two guys and basically go into the Big
ten and win win ball games.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, well, we've only got one D two guy left.
That's true that it starts.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Tell me about starts first. I want to hear about him.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, he's he's a special player.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Obviously, everybody got to watch him on a national level
at Drake this past year.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Just the combination of humility.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
And IQ and skill all rolled up into one is
I think what you see with him and his ability
just raw talent obviously sticks out. His ability to make
plays an average twenty a game a really good mid
major and do the same against the power fives that
played against in the tournament, but the ability to make

(18:11):
people better as well and do it in like I
don't know today, somebody that wins Player of the Year
and you know, averages that that much in the valley
just typically has this large ego and persona about him,
and I think people find it refreshing just to see
how like low key and down to earth he is
but still have that like killer mentality on the court.

(18:33):
So I think I think people really enjoy that at
the University of Iowa. And just it's a crazy story too,
because we recruit him out of Liberty High School and
he kind of waited around all summer for Division one.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I mean, we certainly knew he was that type of
level player.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
I just think being on a you know, undercover AU team,
let's call it, and maybe not having the most flashy
skill set probably led him to fall to US at
a division two. And you know, it's just crazy that
his sophomore year he was second team all in My
double A fast forward eight months and he's the Larry

(19:09):
Bird Player of the Year.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
In the NBC.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
But it just goes to you know, max ability to
develop point guards, Bennett's work ethic and just being a
humble kid and putting his head down and working his uh.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
I don't know if you ever saw this his I
think his girlfriend posted a TikTok of his diet too,
and what he I.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Haven't seen that. I don't have TikTok.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
You me in so like when the tournament, like maybe
right after the tournament or maybe it was in that
week where they had lost and then they were waiting
for the second week and to roll around and I
TikTok pulls up and it's Bennett just like walking out
of it. I don't even know. He's got like two
donuts for breakfast and his girlfriend's like filming and I

(19:51):
think she just titled it like what my Division one
boyfriend athlete eats in the day, and it's and I'm like,
oh my god, this is amazing. And he starts his
day off with like three cases donuts good and the
entire day was just like a You're like, oh man.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
I was going to carry over the big like this.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
I mean you were an athlete, like what it's like
to be a twenty year old athlete. You know, Yeah,
you can just eat whatever you want. Which is funny
because he never comes out of the game like his
his battery is unlimited.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
He doesn't.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
And you know that's historically been how Mac operates is
like typically only plays seven maybe eight guys at the most.
It's a testament to the players obviously, and then just
the ability to get guys in shape over the end
of the summer fall conditioning program. A lot of that
credit goes to obviously the strength coaches that have worked

(20:52):
with max program, but he also has a large hand
in the conditioning piece and making sure guys are in
tip top shape and just kind of what he does
and then every day of practic this basis so you know,
Mitch and Bennett this past year, I think led the
country in minutes per game, and I think a lot
of people had concerns over that and just like the
ability to stay injury free. But my take on that is, like,

(21:15):
these guys are elite athletes twenty years old and are
playing two basketball games a week. You know, like they
get a media time out every four minutes, They get
plenty of breaks.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
I don't see any issue with it.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Mac doesn't either, And I think his philosophy is like,
I got a lot of really good players. I want
them on the floor at all times. I think depth
is fairly overrated. So that's just kind of his his
take on the situation.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
That could be a T shirt. Depth is overrated.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, if that be even them on the floor.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Like, I understand the I understand the sentiment because it's like,
if you've got a dude, Yeah, how can we squeeze
every little bit of production out of that guy that
we can? But there is such a thing as fatigue.
And but then in basketball there's almost a you know,

(22:03):
in football, it's a different story. You can rotate receivers
in and out tight ends, especially with Iowa the way
they've done it. Running back can be by committee, although
there's a little bit of a flow aspect of that
defensive line is a total by committee kind of thing
in basketball, there's no there isn't that stoppage of play.
So there is this flow aspect of getting in a groove,

(22:25):
and it it seems productive to keep being able to
keep guys in there and not take them out. I
know when I was playing, you know, and part of
it was just ego, like, hey, I want to be
in the game. I don't want to be wasting my
time here. But part of it too is like, man,
if you're not in the game and making passes and
getting down on defense and running the floor, it's hard

(22:46):
to stay in that flow. Is that part of it
too is just like like you know, our system, when
you're on the on the floor, we're trying to just
get in a groove and have everybody kind of feel
in the same page. And then and then we from
there everybody just is in.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah. I think that's definitely one B.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
I mean one A would just be you want to
have your best players on the floor at all times,
and then and then one be the flow piece is
a great point.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
You know.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
I just think coaches watching basketball for two years being
out of it over sub and it really does kill
that rhythm on the offensive side of the ball for
some teams where you feel like you need to get
guys eight, nine and ten on the floor for whatever
reason to keep people happy. But you over sub and
you kill momentum and you get out of rhythm. And

(23:33):
then momentum is such a big thing in the game
of basketball, especially in the college landscape, that it's tough
to get it back at times. Yeah, so I think
just keeping that flow is probably the biggest reason. I mean,
you'll see it a lot with him, and it'll be
interesting to see how he handles it in the big
ten and how it's officiated. But you know, with his
guards and better players, he'll keep guys on the floor

(23:54):
with two fouls throughout, even if they pick it up
fifteen minutes left in the first half.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah. He's done a couple interviews, and one of them
with Lysoco from Des Moines, and he he somehow brought
that up, and he said, if the guy gets two
fouls in the first he's like, yeah, I'll leave him in. Yeah,
trust my guys.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
He did say.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
He did say, like, you know, he brought up a
he referenced a couple of guys he had at Northwest. Yeah,
he said, we had one guy who was really aggressive
and like that. He was just a base to the wall,
like grind you out kind of player. We would take
him out. But like a guy like Bennett, I know
that two fouls is an outlier kind of thing. It's
more often fluky than not. He's gonna be smart, he

(24:35):
can stay in the game. Uh So that's cool. Back
will have coach Mack will have some some fans on edge,
just like, oh shit, he's leaving him in. Oh man,
we're gonna get our guys in foul trouble.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, and it's uh.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
I felt that a lot like as the assistant on
the bench in charge of subs, like, all right, you know,
if this shitty official over here, the third one on
the crew decides to make a call and Bennet's got
three fouls with ten minutes up in the first we're
going to be kind of ship out of luck.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
It really never burned.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
His teams from my perspective, and just goes back to
that philosophy of keeping his best guys on the floor,
keeping the flow as much as possible.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Again, I don't watch as much basketball but I feel
like what I hear about the Big Ten is is
it's ref pretty like they let things go. It's pretty aggressive.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
Yeah, I mean, it's tough for me to judge. Not
watching every game in the Big Ten, you get a
feel for a league being in it and like competing
on a night in, night out basis. The Big Ten
is widely regarded as one of the more physical leagues, and.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
It'll be interesting to.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
See how his guys handle that physicality. I mean, Max
teams have always been very physical on the defensive end.
It just it will probably be a night by night
basis thing to see how that specific crew is handling
the physicality, which is going to be an interesting thing
to see how he handles it. But just such another
challenge that he's going to have to deal with, obviously

(25:58):
making the steps to the Big Ten.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Going back to that interesting tidbit on the substitution thing,
I don't know how much women's basketball you watch or
watched in the tournament. I believe it was Tennessee. The
Tennessee women they run five in, five out.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
They will sub They will run what are the quarters
ten minutes long? They'll run a group of five for
five minutes, five in, five out, sub a whole new
group of five comes in for the second half of
the court. It's wild.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
I was like, crazy, Yeah, And if you practice that
on a day in, day out deal, it makes sense.
But you go back to the point I've been making
about having your best five on the floid all time?
How do you split up those two separate rotations? And
they do they vary from game to game? Is it
just a feel? Yeah, that'd be an interesting thing.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
I watched them.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
That's an extreme obviously, but for sure, I mean that
seems crazy. But I guess if you got like I
mean maybe, I guess if you find yourself you just
don't have one superior stud you you have ten girls
who are just all kind of the same level. You
just run five and five zho. I mean, you're definitely
getting the most fresh You can just go balls to
the wall, for sure for five minutes. But it kind

(27:12):
of seems like that's the way that coach McCollum has
his guys playing like. He plays a like really good defense.
I think in the press conference or in some of
the couple of these initial interviews, he's talked about we're
gonna make you. You are going to work if you're
going to get a good shot, like we're going to
take you to the end of the shot clock. I
think we saw the stat about one hundred thousand times

(27:33):
during the tournament they took. They made more shots in
the last four seconds of the of the shot clock
than any other team in the country, like one hundred
and fifty percent more than second place or something like that. So,
in your best way to describe it, what is coach
McCollum's overarching philosophy in the game of basketball? What does

(27:53):
that look like?

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, I mean defensively, like you touched on first, I
would say probably over the last decade, just as he's
become more popular in the coaching ranks, he's probably been
known for his offense.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Throughout the media, but he will always.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Hang his hat on the defensive side of the floor,
and he'll be the first one to tell you that
in his interviews. I think he mentioned it during his
opening press conference as well. I mean, it's it's always
going to be man to man. There's never going to
be some junkie press or zone. He just believes that
that's the best way to win basketball games and that
no press never. I mean, unless he's down ten with

(28:29):
two minutes to go, you know, he'll throw it on.
But yeah, I think he just you know, you get
over extended and start to give up cheap baskets. And
that's kind of his philosophy. It is just going to
be this very physical, pressure oriented pack in defense, because
his goal offensively is to obviously touch paint as much

(28:51):
as possible, put pressure on the rim, and then you
obviously get free throws and layups, which are the most
efficient shots in the game of basketball, or kickout threes,
and and that's essentially what his defense is trying to
prevent is those paint touches to where defenses have to rotate,
you know, bring two to the ball and then you
know where you come in in scramble mode. Yeah, and
then the shooters get open shots and it just kind

(29:13):
of you know, flows like that. But no, I mean, defensively,
it's going to be all man to man, a ton
of pressure on the ball. They really don't deny passes,
although they do lead a lot of their leagues in steals,
just because they get so active on the ball, and
I think doing that really takes teams out of what
they want to do defensively or offensively for the opponent.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
So I think you saw that a lot with Drake.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Playing Missouri, where the SEC is just such a free
flowing up and down league, and Drake and Max whole
mentality of that game was for forty minutes, you're going
to have to grind out thirty second possessions in the
half court. You're not going to get anything easy in transition,
and a lot of teams just flat out can't run
offense against that. And especially when it gets to, you know,

(30:00):
a one game season and you're done that, that pressure
starts to build and you start working. You know, you've
got to go against the defense that you typically don't
face on a night by night basis. I think that's
where they've had a success, a lot of success on
that side of the ball. And then offensively, like I
talked about, just trying to be as efficient as possible,
I think they this year. I mean you probably saw

(30:24):
in the media, I mean a lot of people gave
them ship for playing so slow, but that was what
their staff and their team felt like gave them the
best chance to win a basketball game.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
It was there was the makeup's most efficient, way.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Correct correct, and historically he's never played ultra fast, but
he's definitely that was definitely the fastest or sorry slow
as his teams have played, just because you know, they
probably had one to two less shooters on the floor
than they prefer and maybe we're short of another ball
handler that they typically have.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
You know, they had been in Isaiah, but having a
third playmaker certainly helps with the pace aspect of things.
So he got he got a lot of shit for that.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
And I saw a lot of comments from my Hawkeye
fans whenever he was potentially going to be hired, like oh,
this is going to be another Licklider situation. Like, no,
it's not one, because they're taking really good shots. It's
just at a different time in the shot clock. And
this is where I find a funny kind of relates
to Kirk Farrens.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
I was just gonna say, dude, this is like and
I watched the opening press conference and my I tweeted
it out. I was like, man, yeah, McCollum is just
a young KF Because we're talking we're talking clock management
and we're talking efficiency and we're talking defense. I mean,
it's like it's like let's go.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
And I don't know if I tweeted it at you
or I or I mentioned it in our conversation via DM,
but there were multiple pictures of KF sitting in the
back of that press conference and and Mac had one
piece where he went.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Off about statistics and efficiency and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
And I think he was talking about we went thirty
eight no in twenty eighteen nineteen, and we didn't want
a ton of like national awards, but the NCAA sends
you a statistic if you lead the country in a
specific statistic, whether it be three point defensive percentage whatnot.
And we got obviously the win percentage one that year
because we didn't lose a game. And I just, you know,

(32:28):
being a lifelong Kirk Farence fan, I just pictured him
sitting back there smirking because in multiple press conferences, when
when the media is just grilling him on points per
game and offensive stats, he's sitting there, you.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Know, just try his teeth.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
We're trying to lead the league in winning percentage and.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
That is it. If you guys know, we won thirty
eight games last year exactly.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yeah, the quote when he's like, if you remember it,
we won ten games last year.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yes, ten games good.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
I mean, if you guys don't like that, them will
certainly change.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
It's crazy because we you know, I've seen it all
are my dms are not just filled with fun requests
like yours or reach outs like yours. It's filled with
a lot of fans who are like, I don't fucking
care if we win ten games, man, I want to
be entertained. And we're like, okay, well here we I mean,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
Yah, we'll chuck it down the field forty yards every game,
but we're also going to go, you know.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Let's let's spread this thing out and go six and
six then baby, let's do it all right. The that's
like the equivalent too of like what a lot of
basketball is now too. It's just like running gun. They
use none of the shot clock. It's funny because you
kind of you have to sit down and look to
draw the parallels. But it's like, let's be smart about
playing the game, right, Like, if they're going to give you,

(33:44):
what's the shot clock, thirty.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Seconds, thirty seconds?

Speaker 1 (33:48):
If they're going to give you thirty seconds, why not
use it all? Right?

Speaker 3 (33:51):
Like yeah, I mean, if your goal is to get
the best shot possible. Why does it matter if it
comes at twenty seconds on the shot clock or three seconds.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
On the shot clock. Uh. I mean that's you know,
that's the most basic way to put it.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
But I think people get so caught up in the
aesthetics of everything, and you know, we want to play
super fast and score one hundred a game. Well, that's
probably not the best way to win for the majority
of teams. Some people, the freaks and the sec that
have all the athleticism in the world.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Maybe sure, but.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
You know that's I can tell you that probably is
not going to fly into Big ten with with how
physical it is.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Tell me about a little bit more about the conditioning
side of things. Basketball is interesting because well, I mean
football too this way, but basketball specifically, there's strength conditioning
component off the field where you're working in the weight
room and the guys got them doing sprints or whatever.
But then basketball practice. And this is how my AAU
team used to do it, how we used to win.

(34:46):
We had we had all of the slow, white, less
athletic guys, but man, we'd go to those AU tournaments
and we'd compete. It's because we were conditioned and we
could just play hard defense. We did press a lot
because when you're playing au kids, they just get frazzled.
It's not college guys. Uh, but man, we just one

(35:07):
with grit. Coach McCollum talked about how he is all
about strength conditioning. They're gonna lift three or four times
in season, that he wants the kids bodies to change
physically they want to he Uh. How the part I
love the most was when he said, I want guys
when they go in the game to feel like they
belong first physically because they are physically able to run

(35:29):
and body guys and take take contact. You're talking to
a football guy and a strength conditioning guy, So I
love that shit. Uh how did he approach that? Because
then in a basketball practice, I mean you can you
can do a lot of basketball drills and a lot
of five on five where the goal is just hey,
we're running like we're going and that that creates a

(35:49):
lot of adaptation for games specific So what did that
look like and what was you know, he talked again,
he talked about it. What's his philosophy there is as
far as getting guys in shape.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what he does.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Big ten Strength coach specific for his specific for his team.
That's going to be interesting to see how he developed
players because we never had that a Division two obviously,
so we had a really good head strength coach, Joe
Quinman that was in charge of our every team in
our athletic department. He worked with men's basketball specifically. I mean,

(36:27):
he did a great job with the weight room, and
like I mentioned earlier, Mac would handle a lot of
the conditioning specific pieces. So the fall, which for football
programs would be the summer right before your season where
you're really getting after it and trying to get in
the best physical shape possible, would be Mac and we'd
have you know, three to four conditioning sessions a week

(36:48):
along with practice to where not only is he trying
to get you in really tip top shape, but he's
trying to challenge you mentally more than anything. And a
lot of that is just these really tough running workouts
and there are a lot of them that I can
think of that you just really didn't have an idea
of when they were going to end. But but but yeah,

(37:09):
it's kind of, you know, psychotic, the way he would
try and do that. But you just have to attack
each rep like it's your last and put everything you
have into it, and then you know, if he says
it's over, it's over. If not step up to the line,
the next one we got attacked as well. So that's
that's essentially his mentality. And you can you can obviously
figure out how creative you can get with some of

(37:31):
those crazy conditioning deals. And it's obviously different from football
to where it's more you're trying to move heavy weight
and that physical power, to where basketball you've just got
to be able to transition from thing to things really
fast and move.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Up floor purely running. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
So I think his preseason conditioning is a lot of
the reason why he's able to play guys thirty plus
minutes time. Yeah, And I don't see that changing at all.
And l ten, he's just going to have more sources
for sure.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
That's the exciting thing there with him is like all
the things that he wants to do, he now has
more money, you know, bigger facility, like all the stuff.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
It also and not that you would have a lot
of insight into this now that you're out of it,
but like it seems like they've given him a little
bit more nil I mean he's been able to bring
in some guys. They're giving him all the stuff that
he wants and needs. And well, specifically when the job
was open and people are discussing, oh, who's going to
take the job, well, we'll it be this guy.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
You know.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Dafreese was was the probably the other guy that I
think it was reported on that Beth met with, and
he was a little bit cautious, concerned about how much
Iowa is going to fork over in the new world
of paying guys. How many I mean, how many donuts
can you buy with a million dollars? I don't know.
We'll have to ask start sometime. Maybe he'll come on

(38:53):
the show after he graduates. But it's, uh, that's exciting.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
I know.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
God, those basketball conditioning is just rough. He just like
and when you do a lot of those drills where
you're just like, I don't it's coach going to Coach
is going to call practice here? Or are we just
going to go again? Because I'm going to throw up?
And you know it is what it is. PTSD back
to football workouts. Does there's a lot of ball screens.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Right, A ton of ball screens.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
So yeah, I mean the best way to describe his
his offense would be a ballscreen motion. And there's obviously
ten to twenty different principles within that, depending on the
personnel that he has on a year by year basis
that he's trying to.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Get guys to play to. But you're in, y're out.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
It's always going to come back to ball screens because
at the end of the day, like the name of
the game and most coaches are trying to create is
two defenders to the ball, so you have a four
and three advantage on the backside and then you're playing
advantage basketball and you can get the shots that you want.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
And he feels like ball.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
Screens and a lot of people do feel like ball
screens are the best way to create that. And you know,
the best thing I could compare it to for just
a casual fan would be if you watch the Golden
State Warriors on a on a night by night basis,
you watch Steph Curry bring the ball up and either
Gary Payton Junior like last night, or Draymond Green is

(40:21):
setting him a ball screen. They trap staff two to
the ball way out there defense is overextended, and now
Draymond has a four on three advantage, and that's where
you know these role players get really efficient. It's because
they're either cutting the basket and playing into their strengths
that way, or knocking down open shots.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
So they're going to set a lot of those and just.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
His unique ability to get guys to play within that
system and really kind of sacrifice. You know, everybody wants
to step in and average twenty a game, but getting
this guy to be an elite cutter and rebounder is
not easy because they want the attention that you know,
the Bennett's search the lead point guards get. But you know,
the difficult conversations behind the scenes that he has with

(41:04):
the kids to buy in to these programs is where
I think he sets himself apart, just because I don't
think a lot of coaches really want to have those
difficult conversations and they want to cater to these kids' egos,
and you know, he puts those conversations up front and
gets that all out of the way, and that's where
you see these you know what I deem to be

(41:24):
beautiful basketball, multiple actions within a possession and ultimately getting
really efficient shots at the goal.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Sounds a lot. I'm I'm going to come back to
it in a second. I'm about to do some some
fun atteries, but it just sounds a lot more like
Kirk Farnce and the IOWAS system with special teams and
being a role player. I want to give a quick
shout out to our sponsors. You see him down there
on the screen if you're watching the YouTube. If you're
not watching the YouTube, you should be. This season, Grant,
myself and Kevin whenever he shows up, are going to

(41:52):
be doing our Monday and Thursday episodes live on Sunday
and Wednesday nights. If you're able to join, they'll we
re uploaded the next of course, as they have been
for the last six seven years, but you'll be able
to catch them live now, and you should be on
the YouTube or Twitter. I guess you could do it
on x as well. But you know, if you want
to see Grant's lovely interact with Grant too, you can

(42:13):
ask him questions in the middle of the show. We
can just totally interrupt things and go off the script.
Uh Solar, I saw some solar panels today, Grant.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Good.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Our neighborhoods are working me our neck of the woods,
me and Zach's neck of the woods. A lot of
solar out here in Waukee. Yeah, a lot of a
lot of smart folks, a lot of smart individuals. I believe.
I'll just I'll just read the I'll just read the things.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Coach uh Mac now apparently is a Wauky guy at
least for now.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Probably have solar on his house.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Probably got solar. Yeah, he was for nine months, but
now he's had a two hours.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Now he's going to Hell. He'll probably have so he'll
probably have solar there too. Closer over and over to
the to the headquarters there, Dubuque, Cedar Rapids, Iowa City
is where Eagle Point Solar has their locations. You can
get in touch with them to find your solar solution.
Who knows you could be saving fifty seventy five one
hundred bucks a month. Think about what you could do.
We could more daycare money, Zach, God knows we need that.

(43:12):
Daycare is unbelievable. With longer sun of your days ahead,
people with solar do make hay while the sun is shining.
The sun never turns off, by the way, never turns
Prove well if it does, we're all fucked. So all right,
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(43:35):
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(43:56):
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Eagle Point is your solution there, eglepointsolar dot com do
your solar analysis. Iowa egg Counsel. I had five beautiful
eggs this morning. I dropped one, though I dropped one.

(44:18):
You want to hear the irony. Zach will understand this, Zach,
I'm sure you're I'm sure your kid watches Blue maybe
maybe not.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Having we've we've kept him away from the TV as
much as possible. Yeah, but it's I'm sure it's coming.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
So it's coming.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
His son's watching hoops, all right, he's getting ready, He's.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
He's watching he's watching film. He's watching film. He's got
the Missouri Valley on. Well, I'll tell you what. Blue
has absolute stranglehold on the entire two to I don't know,
seven year old market. Who knows how long it goes.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
We're watching an episode this morning, and in the episode Bingo,
Blue's sister is helping her mom make an omelet for
their dad and just cracking eggs all over the kitchen.
I go out, go to make my eggs. I drop
an egg, run on the kitchen floor. I'm like, are
you kidding me? What is going on?

Speaker 2 (45:04):
So?

Speaker 1 (45:04):
I wasted one of the eggs today. I'm sorry. Iowa
Egg Council apologize, but don't worry. I grabbed another one
out of the fridge. We got our five down and
they were delicious. Iowagg Council again. Later this fall, I'm
gonna be doing some egg on a stick at the
Iowa State Fair. A lot of tell me, tell me
a week that goes by where you don't need an egg?

(45:25):
I don't know anything. No, yeah, you need eggs. Buy
more eggs. Go get your eggs, Eat your eggs, dude.
Role player role players getting guys to buy in again,
talking KF we go, you walk into the iow Football Building,
the first thing to tell you is, Hey, we're gonna
buy into strength conditioning and special teams. You want to

(45:47):
find your way onto the field, Kevin Ward, if you
would ever show up to the show that he hosts
Special Teams, Guy role Player, Ultimate role Player. So it
sounds like coach McCollum sees these guys in recruiting, he
has a vision for them, and he's like and then
he's trying to fill what basically five roles. I mean,
you know we have the one, two, three, four, and five.
They're probably not traditional in the way that McCole muses him.

(46:09):
You can tell me more about that, but he sees
he sees five guys in an offense like Hey, I
want you to do this and then and then get really.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Good at that.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Yeah, essentially, And it's and I think it drives probably
opposing coaches crazy because like you want to figure out
why he's able to develop kids better than other people essentially,
and it is really so simple. You know that there are,
like I mentioned two guys that I play with that
are going to fall him over to Iowa City. He's
able to curve the Price and Williams that are going

(46:40):
to be fantastic in their player development where they will
build you know, individual skill, whether it's becoming a better
ball handler, finisher, just throughout their workouts. But at the
end of the day, if if I'm an elite rebounder
and cutter, freak athlete, but the offensive system has me
camping out and.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Shooting threes, I'm not going to be very good at basketball.
So getting the guys to buy in to what they
do best and doing that within their.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
Ball stream motion offense that everybody's comfortable with is probably
where he gets guys to you know, an all conference
level more consistently than not. Now, obviously a lot of
that's recruiting, like you have to have a certain amount
of skill to get on the floor for him. Yeah,
and I think you see that a lot. So, I mean,
in terms of positions and offense, I think the two
major ones that you're going to see consistently within this

(47:30):
program is guys that use ball screens and guys that
set them. He'd prefer the guys that use them to
be really good ball handlers and decision makers, you know,
the ability to shoot off a screen and also make
other players better, and then the guys that set them
are typically either going to be freak athletes that can
set it, dive and gets the rim really quick to

(47:51):
put pressure on.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
The defense, or really skilled pick and pop fours.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
And he's not a play opposed to playing three to
four at a time, So guys that will be able
to like a Jokic essentially obviously not that elite of
a player, but to where he can pick and pop,
knock down a three pick and pop drive to the rim,
or if they switch the ball screen, just dive into
the post and expose the mismatch there.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
So it's not going to ever be a traditional one two, three,
four five lineup. But those are the two types of
players that I think Hawka fans are going to commonly
see if.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Coach McCollum could get a yokicch diversity.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
So, yeah, you had me. He did sign a six
four kid Alfaro. Pretty skilled, pretty skilled, he looks to be.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
I was I was going to ask, because so I think,
is there a traditional five? Like I think what people
are saying in the portal right now, because he's literally
which this is crazy. If I feel like, if Iowa
wins any basketball games, next year to miracle because of
what I mean, he literally has had to build a
team from scratch. I understand he brought his core from
from Drake, but then you got like, you know, you

(48:54):
got Koch who stayed at Iowa. Then you bring in
the Hasten kid from Kansas State, this kid Forage Us
or al Varo, whatever his name is. They're trying to
get a guy from somewhere else. Today I just saw
you're literally just piecemealing a team together. It's got to
be the most difficult, hard thing to do. And then

(49:15):
it's like, hey, everybody, we're all iowahaw guys. None of
us were, but we all are. Now let's win some
basketball games. And the one thing that everybody keeps saying
is like, oh, we need that true five. We need
like a we need a seven footer. How does he
use the big guys? You've mentioned the pick and pop four.
It sounds like that's I mean, I'd love a I'd

(49:35):
love three or three six, eight to six nine guys
who can all just throw down threes all game, all
playing at the same time. Is there a traditional five
that plays in this offense?

Speaker 2 (49:47):
You know, if they're skilled enough to make decisions.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
I think there will be if you just take a
kid just from a physical you know, he's six ten,
two hundred and fifty pounds, he's going to automatically be
able to play in the Big ten.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
That's never going to be max philosophy.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
I think you definitely need a certain level of athleticism
and size to compete in the Big ten, and he's
certainly aware of that.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Defensively for sure, Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
I mean there's gonna be enough posts that you're gonna
have to match up with, so that probably will take
more of those quote unquote unskilled fives just to be
able to have that depth of that that area of
the game. But you know, if they can make a
decision where like once again I'm going to go back
to the Warriors, where they catch it off a ball

(50:31):
screen dive like Draymond Green does and can either take
a balance and finish of the rim or kick to
an open shooter, then yes, I think you'll see a
lot more like six ten, six eleven kids. But I
think you're going to see it's going to be more
common that you have the Cooper Cook or Catch whatever's
last name is, and the six tenth Spaniard to where

(50:52):
they do have a lot of length, which will carry
over to the defensive side of the ball. They might
not have just the pure physical six ten two fifth presents,
but where there's six eight six y ten and then
can put the ball on the floor, score in the
post and also be able to stretch it with being
able to shoot the three as well with.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Those guys too, And it's it's obviously less of a
they're not going to go forty like Ben it is,
but being able to find big guys who can buy
into the conditioning piece of it as well, And like
that's tough because when you get those big guys, you know,
you watch Zach Edie right up and down the floor

(51:30):
for Purdue, and you're like, my goodness, Like some of
these guys you're worried about there. They can't even stay
in the game because they're tired, right, And I understand
it's hard to lug a seven foot body up and
down a ninety foot four foot basketball court, but is
that still like you know, with the big guys, he's
still focusing on like, hey, you got to be able
to to manage the tempo here.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah, I mean, there's there's definitely.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
You know, if they can't put the ball on the
floor and they can't shoot, there's still obviously a place
for them in the Big ten. But I think the
ability to get up and down the floor one is
very important obviously in the game of basketball. And then two,
I think the other piece that some people might miss
is how well can they move their feet side to
side because ball screens are so present in today's game

(52:15):
at every single level, and the people guarding those ball
screens are typically the fours and the fives and the
big So yeah, if they can get out there and
move their feet side to side, occasionally switch onto a
Big ten guard and guard them, then yeah, we're going
to see a lot of those. But if they're stiffs
and you know, they switch onto a guard and the
whole defense knows this is a massive liability. Once again,

(52:36):
there's just not going to be a lot of those
players on the floor, and I think they'll be able
to find.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
That guard just starts licking his chops. Everyone's yelling, nigsack
that mismatch. He's like back to the AU tournament. Everyone's
just like, exactly, this kid's about to get crushed. Talk
to me about recruiting. I think one of the fun
things that coach McCollum said in his and this is
going to be man, I guess I don't know how

(53:00):
important it's going to be important. It's just where you're
recruiting the kids from more often than not. At this point,
it seems like it's just like maybe even more important
to be able to recruit kids that are already in
college coming in from the portal. But you have to
recruit high school guys as well. Uh, that is a
nightmare situation to figure out. I would not want to
be a coach in basketball or any sport right now
where the portal is a big thing. But he said

(53:24):
he talks about culture, and this is another thing I
love another coach Farence Staple, is you don't you don't
really change kids and and create a culture. You you
start with the culture you're trying to build, and then
you find guys who already fit that and want to
and then obviously want to grow into that even more.

(53:44):
And I mean we've talked about on the show a
million times how the coaches on IOWA football staff they
find good people who fit the values, fit the work ethic,
and the culture of Iowa football and they bring them
in and they'll get them to the point where they
need to be football wise. Is it Does that sound
like a lot of what coach McCollum's trying to do.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Yeah, that's that's generally in recruiting.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
Obviously, skill level is going to get you evaluated, and
then they're going to do a deeper dive on your
personality and character. And I think the type of kid
that he wants to bring into the program looks a
lot like what kf wants to do with the Iowa
football program. I will say the one adjustment like Mac
will have to make, and I'm sure he's going to
be able to figure out. As you know, at Northwest,

(54:29):
we were able to recruit Kansas City, Omahata, Mooine, that
kind of little triangle in the Midwest, and we're very
familiar with the type of kid that comes with that.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
And then at Drake you know, you you they did
have to rebuild a roster that.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
Had two kids out of the thirteen that they eventually
played with that year, so there is a bit of
experience in roster turnover. But at the same time, they
did bring four kids from Northwest, so it's going to
be interesting to see how And I know he's already
out on the road recruiting a lot of local Iowa kids.
They brought in the g At kid from West and
Mooines News the player of the Year this year, So

(55:02):
there's a concerted effort to do that. And then at
the same time, it's just you're going to You're going
to have to piece together a roster each year, partially
through the portal, and it's just how today's game is,
and you're going to have to make decisions on kids
that are going to be in your program for twelve

(55:23):
to thirty six months based off probably a week of
getting to know them, which is just crazy because he
used to be a year to two year recruiting process
and you really got familiar with the kid and the family.
But now, I mean you might have to make a
decision in three or four days and put a dollar
amount on them and then get them Dieowa City.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
So I mean, every coach is having to deal with it.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
I'm confident Mac will figure it out, but that's certainly
going to be a major adjustment.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
He's going to have to make such a headache.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Too, because now you're dealing with like you know, we've
had brat Heinrich on the show multiple times. He's the
swarm guy, and you're dealing with the collective how much
money do we have? How much the red shares about
to hit in a couple of months where they're like, yeah,
we also have you know, Iowa basketball is probably going
to get somewhere in the range of Lake two to
three million there. Every year it's like, what, Hey, how

(56:11):
much money do we have? I got a guy, you
want to give him some cash? Okay, I'll tell him.
It's like playing deal or no deal. It's unbelievable. It
is weird. And his recruiting area is going to open
up probably a little bit more too, because when you're
recruiting the Big ten now you're competing for guys out
of Chicago and well, I mean, if you can find talent,

(56:32):
you probably take them. But again with when you're trying
to fit, a culture might be more important there too.
Uh what was I just going to say?

Speaker 2 (56:41):
I completely forgot.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
The coach. McCollum enters year one as an Iowahaw guy,
brand new team. There's one Cooper Gotch or whatever his
last name is, is the only guy returning with someone
like you who has a general knowledge of basketball and
coaching and recruit all these things tied together. What is

(57:07):
success for them in year one in your opinion?

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Yeah, I mean I personally believe they're you know, they've
still got a way ways to go in terms of
filling out the roster.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
I would guess they probably want three to four more players.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
But I don't think in any of that staff's mind
that it's like, Okay, year one would be a successfull
we just get to twenty wins. I think it's certainly
they expect to be in the top quarter and competing
for a Big Ten championship regular season.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
I don't think there's any reason they can't. And then
you know they've not at this level.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Will technically yes at this level because they want a
game against the Power five school and then CA Tournament
this year.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
I mean I think they can. Their site is set
on the sweet sixteen.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
And further, I guarantee I haven't had personal conversations with
them yet because it's been such a fresh change, but
I just know the mentality Mac and that staff, and
you know, there's no excuses.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
This is your one.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Twenty wins is all we can you know, work towards
it's going to be. You know, we expect to win
a national title this year. I don't know if that's realistic,
but you know, every every action that we put into
each day and each practice is going to be geared
towards that and we're going to see where the chips fall.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
He talked about that in his one of one of
the podcasts. He's like, yeah, I just focus on winning,
like I want to. I want to be first, and
he said it. He said it so like I don't
get any not one sense of like cockiness or entitledness
from when he talks about it and when he says
these things, but like which makes it more bad ass

(58:39):
because he's like, yeah, I just want to win. I
just want to be the best. I'm like, okay, fuck, yeah,
let's go. Let's go do it. Coach, come on, I'll
be a water boy like bring me on, which is
cool and I it's so it's so weird. Again. I
set you up with that question, because who knows what
success is?

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Right like direct the story.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
He always brings up and I forget it was probably
somebody that he played with and it was his old
coach that was holding the meeting at the time, and
you know, they were doing their pre preseason meetings and whatnot.
They were goal setting and it's such a funny thing
in basketball, like one kid was a junior or whatnot
said they wanted to go twenty five and five this year,

(59:21):
like that'd be.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
A good here.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
And it's like, well, which which five games on your
schedule do you plan on losing? You know, you never
address it that way inside the program, and you know
that being an Iowa football program is like the expectation
is to go twelve and oh every year, I'm showing
up to each summer workout, Yeah, like giving it my
best for that ultimate goal.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Yeah, And that's that's a disconnect.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
There with the Yeah, there's a disconnect there with the
fans too, because it's like, from a fan perspective, the
blood and the sweat and tears figuratively literally maybe it's
not there so at the same level at least. And
so you look at the season and you know, we're
this upcoming ball season. We got Oregon, We've got Penn State, Indiana,

(01:00:03):
you know, some banger games on the schedule, a tough schedule,
and as a fan, you're like, oh gosh, yeah, I
hope we can go maybe nine and three. Nine and
three would be great, And you're like, okay, And as
a fan you can be like, yeah, we'll probably lose
to Oregon, we'll probably lose to Penn State. But as
a player, that doesn't enter your psyche at all, like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
You don't walk out, Oh, you've got like, if you
look at it now from a football perspective, you've got
three months to show up, to work out some practice,
to like put your best foot forward to win all
three of those really tough games that we just talked about,
Like why not try and go three and o as
opposed to two month?

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
You know, once again, just let the chips fall where
they may and get your best effort every day.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
But yeah, because if you take that mindset into it,
you're like, well you're beat.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Then you're you're yeah, you've already lost what you lose more.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Because you go into this. You know, if the Iowahaw
guys go into the Organ game this year like, oh shit,
we're Oregon. Nice, it'd be nice if we could keep
it close. Okay, Well you're maybe like, yeah, okay, I
guess anything else that I missed, Zach, that that you
want to touch on that that Hawkeye fans should be

(01:01:17):
real excited about or why they should be excited about
coach McCollum coaching the Iowawk guys from here, I.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Don't think so.

Speaker 3 (01:01:24):
I mean, it's just, uh, you know, I think a
lot of people saw in his opening press conference just
the I think there's going to be another level of
fan buy in that you've seen with the football team
over the last two decades with KF and obviously the
women's basketball program ever since Caitlin elevated it to the
national level. I just feel like the next fifteen to

(01:01:44):
twenty years at hawkmen's basketball is going to have kind
of that similar feel, not only because they're going to
put a really good product on the floor, but like
Mac and his staff just have ties to the University
of Iowa and the state of Iowa that I think
a lot of people are gonna are.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Going to buy into.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
And that's that is just really exciting from my perspective
because there's been you know, there's been years that there's
been that level of excitement with the men's program, but
I think just the up and down and inconsistency is
probably where there was a disconnect. And you know, I've
got a very biased opinion on the situation, but I
don't think there's going to be much of that disconnect anymore.
And I think they're going to be, you know, competing

(01:02:23):
at a high, high level for years to come.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
It's a big part of it because the whole thing
was like, well, whatever I would basketball is right now,
whether it was McCaffrey's fault or whoever you want to
blame it on. There's a lot of apathy. People are
just like, it's not something I'm there's nothing to excite
me right now. I can't buy into any of this.
And it seems like at least so far, he's he's

(01:02:48):
doing all the right things, and there's going to be
some more butts and seats later this fall winter when
when basketball season rolls around. So, Grant, you got anything
for the man?

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Yeah, I'm curious.

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):
How important is the signature necktie that coach McCollum sports,
And this is I think this is important to me
because you know, in twenty twenty, I don't know what
whether if it was the bubble or what happened. We're
at college coaches, NBA coaches across the board, decided suits
were done with them, and we went straight to the
quarter zips. Frand had some great quarter zips. But frankly

(01:03:20):
I like it more when the coaches got the suits on.
You know, I watch like The Big East, and it's like, okay,
Hurley's got the suit on, and then all of a sudden,
two titles right with coincidence, I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
So. How important is the signature necktie going to be? Yeah,
I think it is just such a habit at this
point that it'll never never change.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
He has always done the basic white shirt, green tie,
and black pants at Northwest since I've been there. I
think I saw some pictures of his outfits early on,
and there's a good reason why I changed the.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Basic, the very basic look.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
I will say you mentioned during COVID a lot of
the outfit across the college basketball landscape change.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
I think he tried to do it one or two times.
There was maybe an exhibition.

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
Game over Christmas where he wore a pull over and
more casual shoes, and he just looked and felt so
out of place.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
So he did try to go the opposite direction, but
just reverted back to that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
And it really is just as simple as like I
just want to make one less important decision during game
day and focus my energy on the game itself.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
So this is just what I'm going to do. But
there wasn't a ton of buy in honestly.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
At Northwest of Like you know, you saw Drake, they
had the student section wearing it and sold a bunch
of T shirts.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
And I'm sure it'll get really popular and I would too.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, there is a little bit of concern,
and I think you kind of touched on it a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
You don't want like was it like Sean Miller or
whatever Arizona.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
The famous photo where he's just like everything.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
You got to be a little bit careful of that,
like going just the white shirt, no coat or anything.
But I think it'll be I might just start wearing
a wearing that like at home, even just watching against
live in Texas. So I'm not gonna go to the
the games, but I just have sport. We're just gonna
get you our shirt. Yeah, that would be nice too,
if you could just which by the way, if you
want a I don't even this is how good I

(01:05:12):
am in it. If you want to mccullam gold tight
T shirt, not the best design in the world. It's
like second best because the university made us change it,
and they suck.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
And what did they make you change? Out of curiosity?

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
We just wanted to block gold tie, okay, and then
our little hawks by million on the sleeve, and uh,
they hopped on board, which rightfully they should, you know,
the Iowa official licensed talk shop that that's under their
purview or whatever, and and they came up with this
design where they've got the you know, they've got the

(01:05:43):
repeating tiger hawk on there. It still looks great. You
can go right now to the washed up walk Ons
dot com and navigate through the store tab and find
this gold tie Tribe lend.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
We just get a call to wear this on the side.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Could we could?

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
We can anyone?

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Do you think anyone would notice?

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Who? We can get Zach decent, get him on the pod. Yeah,
we'll get him on the pot and you can ask
him that question.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
I mean, I will certainly maybe try and exercise that
that avenue at some point, maybe after his first year.
We'll bring him on like next off season.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
It'd be cool.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Uh, he is, He's got a lot of eyes on him,
and I'm sure nobody more than you will be anxious
to see things get going this this uh this year.
Are you gonna you're gonna go to some games?

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Yeah, I plan too. It'll be it'll be fun to
see what they released for a schedule.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
I know they've already got a non conference against Xavier
at home, and I'm sure they're probably gonna come out
with a few other good ones.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
But obviously let's bring Creighton to town against yuh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Dixon the Freeman. That'd be fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Yeah, So it'll be excited and I'll get over there
and yeah, I mean, there's gonna be nobody that's more
of an Iowa men's basketball fan than me, and so
I love them for it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Well, Zach, we appreciate you coming on. This is much
better insight than we could have cooked up ourself, and
I appreciate you reaching out because you just gave us
an episode worth of content. So hope everybody listening had
a fun time, a little more basketball content than we
normally do this offseason because of all the McCullum hype.
Maybe we'll have Zach again on sometime talk about what

(01:07:22):
we're recapping. A year recap is first year, and talk
about what we've seen. We will be back again on
Let's See This Coming on a third. We'll be back
again on Monday with another episode. Till then see you. Hey,
thanks for listening to the show. If you want more,
you can check us out on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and
YouTube by searching Washed Up walk Ons. And if you're

(01:07:42):
interested in supporting the show, head over to patreon dot
com slash washed Up walk Ons, where you can find
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of your subscription benefits the kids at UI Children's Hospital.
We'll see you next time. Hawks buy a million.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Put pu pu

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
Pu pun punn