Special Guest Joe L. Barns Talks His Start In Music & His New Album "The Good Shepherd"

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
We are back with another episode ofthe Will Disagree to Disagree Podcast, And
I'm Beyonce. I feel like Ihaven't seen you in a minute. No,
it has been like a minute,especially in this studio. Yes,
I've been good. Okay, howabout you. I'm good today? Yeah,
okay, good, especially because wehave a special guest in the house.

(00:20):
Yeah we do. You guys knowhim. He sings and writes for
some of your favorite songs like Promisesof Maveric City. I'm good, I'm
good. I just met him andI'm vi. Oh my god, love

(00:44):
you so much. A connection immediately, Okay, cool, given me,
hippie Jesus, I love I lovethe one time. Here in Chicago,

(01:06):
we have tornadoes. Yeah yeah,yeah, yeah, so, but we
could shine and we're safe and wegot power power, so we are all
good. But welcome. Thank you, Thank you for Kentucky. Wanna raise
raise Hopkins with Kentucky like Nowhereville ifyou wouldn't even know where that's at.
Okay, I only know Lexington,see exactly. Mostly we only know Lexington

(01:27):
a little, and it's because ofthe University of Louisville or the University of
Kentucky. Lexington like once. Peopledon't even know where Paducca is. Kentucky
Derby. We're known for our bourbon, We're not for Kentucky Derby. We're
known for the colleges and all ofthat. But most people don't know where
Hopkinsville is. It's a small littletown right on the border of Tennessee.
So, like it's an hour outsideof Nashville. What's the population? Forty

(01:48):
thousand. It's not bad, it'snot bad. I thought you were gonna
say, like two thousand or something. No, no, I mean you
got the surrounding like like spaces likeoh Grove Penbrook, like those are like
two thous you know what I'm saying. But like Hopkinsville was forty thousand,
totally. So yeah, well,welcome to Chicago. Did you come here?
No, no, I don't,no, no, no. I
used to come to Rockford a lot. Well in my yes, so a

(02:10):
lot of my people were leading worshipand like pastoring in a church out there
in Rockford. So I would comeup there to hang with them for Chattels
to Forest City Worship, like theywere out there for a while. So
yeah, I want to talk aboutbefore we get to the new album.
That's shopping Friday. Good Amen,start in music, Okay, which way?
Which point do you want to start? Because you start of course,

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of course, of course, Likemy house was field music as a kid.
Like, yeah, Saturdays were veryvery like musical because like I have
a lot of siblings. I'm notgoing to say how many right now,
but I have a lot of ciblings. But we would like clean the house
on Saturdays, and every like siblingwas like responsible for a certain section of
the house. So like kitchen,dining room, bathroom, living room,
bedrooms, all the things, buteach room had a different like sound of

(02:58):
music in it. So they werespeakers in every in every room. So
like if I'm cleaning the bathroom,I'm in there listening to anything that's like
R and B. So I'm listeningto the Usher eighty seven O one,
I'm listening to like confessions, allof that. You're going to the other
room. My brother is it's everything, Little Wayne, everything, young Buck,
everything. You know what I'm sayingout Saturdays. My sister, my

(03:19):
sister, she's in there listening toChris Brown. She's in there listening to
B two K. She's listening tolike all of that stuff. My my
dad is listening to the collected stufflike Tracy Chapman and like Amy wine House
and India Irie like stuff that hehad heard on deployment and came back to.
And then my mom was listening toeverything gospel, so the Winings,
the Clarks, like fred Ham.It was everywhere. Bro music was everywhere
in the house absolutely, and thenmy older brothers in the like Cisco and

(03:40):
Osley Brothers and all of that,so like it was Jill Scott Lawrenhill like
it was music everywhere. So towant to be a singer. And then
well what promptly was when I wasyounger, my one of my older brothers,
John, he has always been inmusic, and I remember him coming
home one day from the studio witha demo that he had made. He's

(04:01):
like, I sat with an instrumentaland a producer and I wrote the song
and I want you to hear andhe played it and I saw like this
light and twinkle in his eye andI was like, whatever that is,
I kind of I want to dothat. So I like gravitated to music.
And then he's the one who actuallybought me my like first like Usher
album eight seven on one. Iwas six He's like, you need to
if you want to be in music, you need to like study music.

(04:23):
So then he started like getting meinvolved in music, and he helped me
write my first album when I waseighteen that would never you know, surface
and no one will ever hear it. It's okay, but yeah, no,
I think I was always in lovewith music, but back then I
wanted to be like an RV artist. I wanted to like sing in the
rain and push the mic standing around, and my mom was like, yeah,
no, you're not doing that.We're not doing that. So wow,

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the new album, good Shophard,let's talk about it. It's dropping
Friday, drops Friday thirteen. Yes, let's talk about it. Okay,
I'm nervous. I'm nervous because becauselike over the last like four years,
everything that I've been involved with hasbeen like collaborative. It's like it was
collaboration with Math, collaboration with Elevation, collaboration with Elevation Rhythm, collaboration with

(05:09):
is Reholtant. Like it's always beensomeone else that I've been had the honor
improves a standing next to, butkind of been able to lean on and
kind of hide behind. Now Ijust feel fully explosed because there's no one
to hide behind. It's literally,yeah, I have to be the covering
for the people that are like featuringon the record or whatever. Like I
have to like be in the forefront, which is different from me because I'm
naturally introvert. I'm in the shadowskind of person if you notice. Like

(05:30):
even in my math days, likeI was like, yeah, I don't
really care that like be in theforefront of everything, like chan y y'all,
y'all have it, y'all, y'alltake that. Like I'm I'm gonna
be over here, my my business, you know what I mean. But
this time I don't get to dothat. I have to like stand out
in front. So I think I'min the wrong space to be an introvert
because I don't get to hide.You were kind of quiet, but then

(05:54):
when I heard you on Promises that'sone of my favorite worships. Wow,
appreciate it. So when I,I mean you started, was like,
oh who is this? But youwe're more laid back quiet when you're far
of math. So it is niceto see you now in a different light.
Yeah, man, it's it's terrifying. Yeah, beautifully terrifying, beautiful
terrifying, beautifully terrifying, because youknow, the music is gonna be what

(06:15):
it's supposed to be, and Iget to like tell a different story and
like talk about the things that arelike really stirring in my chest. But
I think that I'm really never soThe Good Shepherd is going to be really
really fun. I think, So, what is the theme of the album
other than talking about things that you'retrying to get off your chest and things
like that. You know, mostalbums have some sort of theme to them
or a climax. What is itfor this this album? So I guess

(06:39):
you can call me very old schoolbecause like I think, like there's an
umbrella concept and everything else just likekind of fees the concept. So like
I think it's a very old schoolway of doing it. Like I don't
just anyway, I want to hingeon that. I the theme of the
album is based on the twenty thirdsong, which is one of the most
famous like scriptures in the Bible.Like it's basically the Good Shepherd. And

(07:00):
when I was like writing and creatingit, we were coming together to make
it. I thought it was veryinteresting that I've read that palm a million
times, but I never thought toask myself, why would David choose to
write from the vanish point of asheep. David was a shepherd boy,
like when he was annoying the kingthat they had to go out to the
fields because he was tending the Jesse'sflock, you know what I'm saying.
Like he was a shepherd boy.But why did he write it from a

(07:21):
vantage point of a sheep? Oh? Because he knew what it was like
to be a shepherd. So hewas basically, like very poetically explaining the
everyday life of a shepherd and theevery day life of a sheep and making
it and connecting it to the supernaturalside of it, connecting it to the
love of God, connecting it tolike the heart posture of God, like

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He's going to provide for you,like he makes me lie down and green
pastures. It's because you're going tomake sure that I'm safe. You're going
to make sure that I'm provided for. You're gonna make sure that I'm covered
and I'm sheltered, and I'm shady, I'm shaded from anything, and you're
gonna make sure there's no like pestilenceor insects or anything that like cloud my
brain or anything like that. This, like each individual line has years of
history of shepherding attached to it,even though it's beautifully poetics. So the

(08:05):
theme of the record is the GoodShepherd, and it's just to like create
a space for God to reintroduce himselfto us in the leadership. Thus in
authority, us that are always havingto have something to give out, like
we have to be. We're theones that are usually responsible for tending sheep.
We have to remember that we havea shepherd that we respond to.
You see what I'm saying. So, yeah, that was a long answer.

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Well, no, it was agood answer, and that's thus the
title of the album, the GoodShepherd. Yeah, Now is there any
correlation between that and you being aworship leader at the Shepherd's Tent. Well,
it's interesting. I didn't recognize ituntil like maybe three months into the
process because I originally wanted, likeit to be the Good Shepherd Live from
the Shepherd's Tent. But unfortunately,like some things happened and our church had

(08:52):
burned down because we were connected toanother like building and that building can of
fire, which like so we arenow just like in homes and like being
like house church and getting like gatheringwhat we can, but three are gathered.
Amen. Amen. But we actuallychanged the title to the Homestead Covington.
But it was it was interesting thatlike the good Shepherd and the shepherd's

(09:13):
tent and then you I'm a coverholding the lamb. Oh my god,
oh my god, oh my god, shepherd. Okay, that express was
really really fun for me. I'mnot gonna lie to you. Like being
in a like being on a siteand like holding an actual lamb was really
different from me. I was soscared, so I was like I don't
want to drop him. I don'twant to like hurt him. I'm like

(09:37):
me yes literally yes, and justlord, but I learned so much and
I tried my best not to belike a weeky mess, like after writing
the record and then sitting there holdinga lamb and like how do I Yeah,
the shepherds, the shepherd of theflock was telling me stories and teaching
me things just like this is Imean to watch it come to life after

(10:01):
writing about it and only like havinglike my vanish point from reading the text
or reading the books or falling asleepthe Sheep noises on YouTube like, but
actually be on like on an actualand actual field with Sheep was completely different.
So, yeah, your pen skillsare crazy. I appreciate it.
Manis are crazy writing wise? Wheredo you go mentally? Like where's that

(10:22):
place you go when you're like,ye'all gotta write this song down on a
paper? Honestly, I write whatI feel like. I think a lot
of times I have this internal likecompass in my chest, and like a
lot of times I'm trying to communicatewhat I feel here. I'm trying to
put language to what I feel here. So like, I try to write
from where I actually am, andbut I also try to reach for things

(10:43):
that I wouldn't like normally say,you know what I mean, something that
doesn't feel like easily caught, likeyou know what I mean, Like,
you know, there's certain like rhymepatterns in like semes that are like easily
caught, like you can kind ofpredict the next lyric. I kind of
don't. I kind of shy awayfrom those. I'm like, let's find
an unpredictable lyric. Wait, Igotta stop that. Because I was listening
to some of the songs there's onecalled Altar on the GOODD album. Yes,

(11:05):
And I was telling like one ofthose when I listened to a song,
I'm ready to know the song,I'm ready to say long. I
was thinking I knew the song rightoff the jump, like, oh wait,
he just switched it on me.I thought I knew the songs.
Yeah, it's crazy that you justsaid that now, yes, yeah,
yeah, yeah, because I think, like I think, when you like
there is a familiarity that comes wheneverthe song is like easily caught. But

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also but also I'm like, no, I want people to dig. I
don't want it to be like lowhanging fruit. I kind of want it
to be something that makes people likeone, go do research, go and
like read the Bible for themselves,because I think for me, at least,
I don't necessarily want to spoon feedpeople something. I'm not trying to
spoonfeed you a revelation about God.I'm trying to give you just enough to
where you can go and search foryourself, and in your searching, you'll

(11:50):
discover something about the Lord on yourown. Like, I'm not here to
give you what to think about theLord. I'm only here to give you
a nugget that will cause you tosearch and did like, Hey, if
you just dig there a little bitmore, you'll discover some things. But
I'm not gonna dig it for you. I'm not gonna give you fish.
I'm gonna teach you how to fish. You know what I'm saying. I'm
not gonna like lay it out foryou. I'm gonna teach you how to
search. So, like I think, I try to look for the things

(12:11):
that are like, that's an interestinglook, why did you choose that?
Let's go and find out what thatmeans. And let's go and dig deeper
into that. And then next thingyou know, you're twenty forty five minutes
into the search, and you're like, God has already starting to unravel things
in your brain. You're like,oh my god, Oh my god.
I mean listening to Hide and Seek, that's like that too. Yeah,
Because when I listen to the songhide and Seek, I was like,
I'm okay, where is this going? What is this about? But then

(12:33):
I caught where you were going withYeah, So I see how you're trying
to make people think more so justa quick song, see, yeah,
Yeah, how did you seek?Is a whole different thing though, like
Hide and Seek was. I rememberwriting it the first time. I was
getting emotional about it at the time. I didn't know that I was gonna
need it four years later, youknow what I mean. Because it was
written maybe twenty twenty. I didn'tknow that I was gonna need it later.

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Like I remember being back home inmy hometown. So what most people
don't know is in Kentucky, likemy mom had the ezy idea to buy
this like lighthouse swing set thing whenI was a kid. So it's this
huge like rickety like, oh it'sold now. It's rickey old and rickety
now, but it's a huge likelighthouse that I used to climb up into
and like play and like all thethings and look out over the huge like
fields of corn and all the things. And I remember being super like vulnerable

(13:18):
and super like easy to get to. And this was before I'd ever experienced
heartbreak, before I'd ever experienced likeloss, grieving, lamenting, before I
knew how to build defenses to protectmy heart right. So then like God
took me back to his vantage pointof those days, and I was like,
God, I hate that it takesyou so much longer to get to
me because I'm so scared that you'regonna break my heart. Are you gonna

(13:39):
let me down? Or like lifehas taught me to be defensive, it's
taught me to be guarded, andI hate that. I want you to
have access to me the same wayyou did then. So then Hide and
Seek was that thing that was likewashing over me and reminding me like,
oh no, you don't have tolike be so guarded when it comes to
him. He's not gonna disappoint you. He's not gonna let you know.
He's not gonna break your heart.Like he's actually gonna sit with you in

(14:00):
a think of the argument and inattention and he's gonna like console you don't
actually you know what I'm saying.So, like how to Seek was a
whole different thing, and I waslike, god, so yeah, anyway,
everything. So I'm looking at you, and of course we've already come
to the conclusion that I love yourstyle. I'm looking at you. You

(14:20):
tat it up, you know whatI'm saying. I love all that vibe.
But when I hear you open yourmouth and start singing, I'm like,
hey, this is an aberration.This dude looks like a neo soul
singer. Arm and B girl,let me love you, And then you're
singing these beautiful praise and worship songsonto the Lord? Like why did you

(14:45):
go in that direction? Is itbecause you grew up in a Christian household?
Like what sent you in the direction? Because I can see you being
an R and B singer, Ican see it. I can hear a
song in my head that you shouldbe singing, definitely, But why did
you choose the direction of singing praiseand worship music? Like you're not even

(15:07):
doing hip hop type gospel or Rand B type gospel. You're doing that
praise not like that, but goodpraise and worship. I mean, well,

(15:28):
like I said, like I grewup in the house full of music.
But Mike, my my siblings,my cousins, like they all went
the R and B route, youknow what I mean. I think my
mom was like, I will not. This is what she told me.
She said, if you sing forthe Lord, you have every bit of
my support. You sing R andB, you try to go secular,

(15:50):
you're on your own. So likemy mom just wouldn't let me, like
do anything different. So then I'meighteen, I created a record with my
brother and it was like the Rand B feel of like worship, and
I was like, Okay, thisworks, Like we found a way to
make it work. But then Istarted traveling with a guy named Eddie James
in like twenty fourteen, and Igot introduced to so many different things that

(16:11):
I never even knew existed. Myunderstanding of Christian music was splitting it splitting
half. It was everything gospel,Clark Sister's whinings, Elin Adams like Dono
McClerkin for him, and Is wrotelike Kirk like it was very gospel,
and then it was Casting Crowns.I knew nothing else about Christian music,
and it's only because my mom wouldlisten to a radio station called w NKJ,
and I'm like, this is allI know. Right, So then

(16:33):
when I travel Eddie and I getintroduced to I hop and Jesus culture and
Bethel and Hillsong. I'm like,what is all? You know? What
I'm saying Jason Upton, I'm like, who are these people? And what
does this sound like? I've neverheard in this like I never heard of
Jay Thomas in my life. I'dnever heard of any of it. So
then I started listening to that,and I started listening to Stephanie Gratz Singer
and Amanda Cook and Rita Springer andall these amazing worship leaders. I'm like,
whatever this is. Something feels likehome to me. Here. Something's

(16:57):
pulling on me, and I don'tknow what it is is. I don't
understand this because I've never been exposedto this, And after four years of
constantly being at churches and leading worshipsand being introduced and like kind of like
engulfed into the music, I don'tknow. It just kind of when I
came out the other side, Idon't I think that just came out completely

(17:18):
different. I think whatever happened inthat water was the Lord and he decided
to like put something in the DNA, and like I have the it's like
my brain is one big pot ofgumbo because it's all these different genres and
styles and all the things. Butfor some reason, when it like when
it comes out of the fawcet,it comes out in this like really interesting
like like not product, but whatam I looking for? It's not product,

(17:42):
it's it's gonna be lack of abut for lack of a better word,
we'll say product and it just comesout of this very interesting recipe,
and I don't know, I thinkit's really beautiful. But my mom just
was not gonna let me do anythingdifferent. He's like, you're gonna sing
for the law, You're gonna sangfor Jesus. Other way wise you ain't
singing for nobody. So I thinkI had to go through oute that felt

(18:03):
authentical to me, and I hadto go throughout the honor my mother.
I love it because it takes usout of tradition, you know what I
mean. Like I said, justlooking at you, I wouldn't expect a
praise and worship singer. And Ilove that. I love the diversity of
it all. I love the unexpected. I love when you get something that
you were looking for. I loveall of that. So I hope you
knew I was saying absolutely because thisis so encouraging because you never know who

(18:29):
you can bring to Christ just byyour look. Absolutely, you know what
I mean, Because you're drawing aman with the look, and then when
you open your mouth and you startsinging praises to him, then you don't
have a different perspective of things.So keep it up. I love it.
You know, it's not the firsttime. I don't know. See,
Okay, I still respect moms anddads, but not just I was

(18:55):
just throwing that maybe when I getmarried, I'll drive an R and B
album that'll work, because that's whenI feel like this, the saying so
let me live. You know whatdoes not necessarily have to mean you're saying
stuff that's distastefull and whatever. Itis about love. It is about love
and he's gonna do it right.R and B basically is about love and

(19:22):
life. Situation. J We're gonnado to be ratide feature, Lucky Day.
I want a Lucky Day. Iwant a Lucky Day. Feature.
Man, that's a bad Friday,bro Friday. I'll take a Friday.

(19:44):
I'll take a Friday. I'll takea lucky day. Beature, I'll take
a herd feature. You know whatI'm saying. That's that's about saying.
And if you want to go alittle old school, I can see you
doing something with like a music somusic. So I grew up city here,
I was yes love an yeah nono no no. Only like is
that you are a mixture of allthese genres. Yeah, I plan,

(20:06):
I plan to do a couple ofdifferent things. I plan to drop this
record. I plan to do apop record. I plan to do at
some point of country record. Iplan to do like all kinds of things.
I would love to get into somedifferent genres and styles. But yeah,
that was the first time I've actuallyheard that. Though. There was
a woman that commented on promises video. She said, I need to check
my heart a little bit because I'mlooking at the guy that's leading, and
I'm looking at the guy in theorgan, and they have their locks and

(20:26):
they have their scars, and Ifeel like, if I walk past on
the street, I never would havethought they're a worship leader. And that's
She's like, that's not that's aproblem. I should probably fix that.
So I think it's interesting, likeyou know that I look the way that
I do, but also like,hey, I'm a worship leader and a
songwriter. Do before we get outof here? What's her last three words
for Chicago the album The Good ShepherdSo far? I like Chicago. I

(20:52):
really like Chicago. I was alwaystold the Chicago's summertime is a vibe.
So I love Chicago summertime. Shot. I need to come and figure it
out. I need to come andsee some things. As far as The
Good Shepherd comes out Friday, Julynineteenth, please go listen to that stream
that I promise you will not bedisappointed. Like God is very very much
in and through the album, andI don't know, I'm gonna take you.

(21:17):
The same thing with my mom alwaystell me to stay with the Lord.
Stay with the Lord. Whatever thatlooks like, highs, lows,
good, bad, ugly, staywith the Lord like it'll work out a
lot better than you think it will. Just stay with the Lord anyway.
Thank you for having me like that. Thank you. Yeah, you got
a place to stay or hang out, or you want to go shopping on
Michigan Avenue whenever you're in Chicago,just hit me up and do it.

(21:38):
Amazing. This has been my favoriteinterview with you. This is my favorite
interview for sure. This has beengreat. Thank you The Good Shepherd.
I mean you guys, if youdon't know him, please check this out
because the songs he's done before,like I said, promises, those are
some of my favorite. I'm excitedto listen to the rest of the album,
especially after hearing Altar and how Ithought I knew but I'm gonna figure

(22:00):
of the song. Oh man,Oh yeah, Good Shepherd gonna get you.
Yeah, no, I'm a listen. Oh yeah, Good Shepherd's gonna
get you. Count Me is gonnareel you in for sure. It's gonna
be fun. Okay, wait,do do the R and B that we
discussed. Yeah, not what she'stalking about. Come back and talk about
that. Okay, I got promised. This will be the first start.

(22:22):
Yes, I am Ryan Lee.You can follow me everywhere at Ryan immediately.
And I'm Beyonce Fox everywhere at BeyonceFox and please Joe L. Barnes.
The album The Good Shepherd is availablethis Friday, July nineteenth. Go
ahead and cop that. I cannotwait. Yes man, thank you,