Episode 1- the Inaugural Episode

Throughout the inaugural episode of Whitewater Drafting, we talked through the 2024 running back class.  First up? Michigan's Blake Corum

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
For football fans, there may beno time of year more full of excitement
and hope than the week's leading upto the NFL Draft. I'm Jackson Bevans
of Cigar Thoughts, and I'm ChuckPowell, host of Chuck and Buck on
Sports Radio ninety three point three KJARFM, and along with producer Mike Barwin,
this is Whitewater Drafting, a newmini series breaking down all the decisions leading
up to the NFL Draft. Let'slight them up. Welcome back. This

(00:44):
is a new show, and Iam so excited to be here with my
friend Chuck Powell of KJR. AndI gotta say, man, I love
the draft, Chuck. I knowyou love the draft. Really stoke to
be doing with this with you.Oh my gosh, it's that time of
year, man. I mean,there is a reason Jackson, that we
call this on my radio show DraftMiss because for me, this is Christmas

(01:07):
in the spring, and I've oftenequated it to this is how we stumbled
upon the celebration that is the monthlong celebration that is the NFL Draft.
I believe number one, it's themost walked, watched and talked about sporting
event from beginning to win. Whenyou think about how much conversation I go
right into the NFL Draft, It'sthe most talked about sporting event of the

(01:30):
entire American sports year number two.It's just set up, Jackson. Just
like the Holidays, it's so muchhype, so much build up. There's
no way that anybody just celebrates Christmason Christmas Day anymore in America. And
the same thing with the NFL Draft. And it's all about those presents under
the tree, speculating as to whatthey are, what's in that wrapping.

(01:53):
You can shake them, you know, you can toss them in the air.
You can play little games with yourcousins, friends and neighbors as to
what you think you're gonna get fordraft miss this year and then on not.
You got to wait until Draft day. There's no opening them the night
before. You wait till Draft Day. You tear down stairs in your pajamas,

(02:15):
and then you sit there and youunwrap your gifts and you find out
what new players are on your favoritefootball team. So I'm an addict addict,
and I cannot wait to do anactual draft show with you. This
is something that we've been talking aboutdoing for quite some time, and I'm
glad we're finally putting it into action. Yeah. Man, well I got
to tip my hat to you.You know, it's got to be five

(02:37):
six years ago now that I hadthe opportunity to come on your show,
and I think we did like familyfeud or something about the Seahawks on your
show, and you and I connected, we kind of stayed in touch,
and man, it just it meantthe world to me when you reached out
about a month ago about doing this. So just tell me a little bit
about how all that happened. Well, first of all, I mean,

(02:59):
yeah, we made connection, andI think I even told you then maybe
that day. I'm like, dude, you're really good at this. We
need to like do a couple projectstogether. And so yeah, there was
some back and forth over the yearsand discussing some sort of the right kind
of project to do together. Andso I've been talking about years doing this

(03:21):
NFL Draft podcast, and I thought, man, I need to get with
somebody that likes the draft, atleast likes the draft as much as I
do, loves the Seahawks even morethan I do. Who's got chops in
this business as well. So theidea of working with you on something was
exciting for me. The idea thatwe get to dabble in something we both

(03:45):
loved so much also kind of madeit a perfect idea for a marriage.
But I still had to propose,and you still had to say yes.
Yeah. Well, and you know, I mean, I'm so glad you
reached out to me after your firstfive choices said no. But you know,
I got nothing better going on.So plus you come with Mike,
you know, yeah, God helpme package deal. Unfortunately, Man's he's

(04:09):
the dead weight I'm lugging around.Well, look, man, I'm super
excited to dive into this with you. First of all, I am really
really excited to say that Whitewater Draftingis sponsored by Seattle Cigar Concierge and Balvenny
Single Malt Scotch Whiskey. Super excitedto have both of those companies on board

(04:30):
because those are two products that Ipartake in regularly and have an own part
of. This is excellent. So, you know, Chuck, when you
and I were talking about this beforethe show, we both we're on the
same page that the draft it's agame of dominoes and all of these teams
are setting those dominoes up, butthe heaviest one, the one at the
front of the line, is thequarterback position. And this free agency period

(04:54):
is really setting the table for howthis draft is gonna go. You know,
we've seen over the last number ofyears that the prevalence of quarterback as
a position in the NFL draft keepsmoving up in priority. Last year we
had three of the first four picksfor quarterbacks. A lot of mocks have
the first three picks in this draftbeing quarterbacks, which would be the first

(05:15):
time it ever happened. We mightsee a fourth slip into the top ten
or maybe even higher. So youknow, it's something where if you don't
have the guy, getting the guyis number one priority, Isn't it?
No question about it? And I'lltake it a step further. Daniel Cherremia
just came out with his brand newmock this week, the one currently out,

(05:38):
and he has a quarterbacks taken inthe first four picks. I just
saw a report from Adam Schefter sayingthat the Vikings the reason that they acquired
that second draft pick, first rounddraft pick last week, was so that
they could get into a position todraft a quarterback. Mel Kiper has for

(05:59):
the first five picks coming off theboard being quarterbacks, and I think the
way that free agency played itself outthe Las Vegas Raiders. I like Gardner
Minshew. He's a nice in thepinch starting quarterback for you, and a
luxurious backup to have, I thinkin the National Football League. But I
don't think that the Raiders, beingquarterback needy, satisfied their quarterback issue with

(06:24):
Gardner Minshew. I think they areabsolutely hungry and in the market for a
QB in this upcoming draft, andso I've said it before, I'm not
so sure that even a quarterback wouldhave even fell to the Seattle Seahawks at
sixteen. I think there's a chancethat the six guys who have been banned
about as possible first round selections atthe quarterback position could all be gone by

(06:47):
pick number twelve. I don't knowif anybody else is saying that, but
I actually believe that there's that muchof a hunger thirst, that much of
a vacancy right now at the quarterbackposition. And so the Seahawks going out
and getting Sam Howell at a tradethis past week Jackson probably eliminates them from

(07:08):
any thought of taking a quarterback inthe first round in my estimation. Yeah,
I think certainly in the first round. And look, let's just to
rehash it. The Seahawks traded athird and a fifth for Sam Howell,
a fourth and a sixth, sothey were willing to move back. They
already don't have a second round.They did have two third round picks,
but they gave up one of themto get Sam Howell, moved back to

(07:30):
the fourth, moved back from thefifth to the sixth, and I don't
know about you, Chuck. Myfirst reaction, I was pretty nonplussed,
and then I started kind of workingthrough it, and I was like,
Okay, depending on the draft chartthat you use, it's anywhere from you
know. I know the Jimmy Johnsontrade charts a little bit outdated, but
they've got the total compensation being likea late third slash comp pick. Others

(07:54):
have it as a fourth or fifth. A couple of charts even have it
as them trading a sixth for themand grand scheme like if they had taken
a quarterback at number seventy eight,I think most Seahawks fans would have been
okay with that. You know,you're probably looking at a Spencer Ratler type
at that point, and Sam Howell'sthe same age. He's got eighteen starts

(08:15):
under his belt. At one point, he was projected to be the number
one quarterback in the NFL draft goinginto his second to last college season.
So it's not like he was neverconsidered as one of these guys. But
you know, this is a backupwith maybe a small chance of becoming the
next guy if he really shows something, well a dirty little secret, you

(08:39):
know, two draft misses ago,he was sort of my whipping boy in
our draft process. It was oneof those whatever you do, don't take
Sam Howell, you know, Imean it became almost comical more than it
did actual analytical, and you know, so he he became that guy for
us. I thought, you know, this guy was Chase Daniel reincarnated.

(09:01):
And so two years ago I wasdown on the idea, but we kept
hearing that John liked Sam Howell andthat's what created the monster on our radio
show a couple of years ago andturned it more into a comedic bit than
anything else. So when the SamHowe trade went down, my reaction Jackson

(09:22):
was, of course, this iswhat John's going to do. Of course,
and you mentioned the age where he'sthe age of Jaden Daniels and Michael
Pennox and Bo Nicks with the eighteenstarts under his belt, and actually,
for the first half of this pastseason, his first full year as a
starter, he was actually showing somesomething that people thought could could work at

(09:48):
the National Football League. Had areally bad second half. He also had
a terrible offensive line there. Sothere's a lot of good to read into
the trade. There's some bad tolead into the trade. Whenever you acquire
a guy that leads league in interceptionsand sacks allowed in the same season,
you know obviously some red flags gooff. But when I heard the trade,

(10:09):
it really did. It felt soSchneidery, and I also think you
know that it I was not goingI thought this was going to be a
quarterback draft for the Seahawks. Theidea of getting somebody in the third round
or beyond was not going to scratchthat itch for me. Sam Howell does
not scratch that itch for me.But I do believe that, coupled with

(10:33):
my feeling that quarterbacks are going tofly off this board early, I don't
know if this was the year toget the future quarterback of the Seattle Seahawks.
So my guess is it'll be Ginothis year. Sam Howe will be
his backup, and Gino will begone next year. Sam Howell will get
a chance to start next season toprove if whether or not he can be
somebody that you can build around.So next year is where I think you're

(10:58):
trying to get your quarterback. Yeah, and you know, we'll see,
we get a lot changes over thecourse of a year. Right now,
it seems right consentenuss that next year'squarterback class is nowhere near as strong is
this year's quarterback class. We willsee there has not been a sterling track
record of new quarterbacks in the leagueover the last four years. I mean,

(11:18):
I remember, what was it threeyears ago when five quarterbacks went I
think in the first twelve thirteen picks, Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson and Trey
Lance and Justin Fields and Mac Jones, and it's like all of them are
backups. Now he's ever Trevor Lawrence, and Trevor Lawrence is not so far
been the prince that was promised.So I mean, yeah, man,

(11:39):
it's one of those things where Ithink I think there's become this hyper focus
on you have to have your franchisequarterback on a rookie contract in order to
win in the NFL, and Ifeel like the pendulum is maybe swinging a
little bit too far in that direction. And maybe some of the struggles that
these new quarterbacks have had coming intothe league has to do with the COVID

(12:00):
years and you know, people notbeing able to get as many eyes on
these guys, and the stunting andthe development these guys are spending longer in
college, all that kind of stuff. At the end of the day,
though, I look and since theSeahawks won the Super Bowl, it's been
what eleven season ten eleven seasons sincethen, only one team has won the
Super Bowl with quarterback on their rookiecontract, and I was the first one,

(12:24):
with Patrick Mahomes. So I don'tknow, man, I think at
this point you need competence at quarterbackand you get that where you can find
it. Well. That being said, and I don't disagree with you.
I've been step with you on whatyou said. That said, though,
and this is rough math. Idid this quickly the other morning. Of

(12:46):
the twenty four teams that didn't seemto have quarterback needs going into this offseason.
So in other words, twenty fourteams in the National Football League feel
good about the best and most importantposition in all of American sports. Okay,
And so of those twenty four,nineteen have first round draft picks at

(13:09):
quarterback. I think it's twenty onehave first or second round draft picks.
So the brock party story truly issome sort of fairy tale. So it
is an outlier in this algorithm withoutquestion. Even the Dak Prescott fourth round
selection or Kirk Cousin's fourth round selection, those are also pretty much outliers in

(13:31):
this process. So that's why forme, if you're not serious about taking
a quarterback with your first pick,then I'd rather punt that down the road.
So go ahead and go with Ginoand Sam for the next couple of
seasons. I actually personally pitched fora year ago. You have draft capital

(13:54):
right now. When are you evergoing to have this kind of draft capital
again? Move up and get thequarterback of your choice. Go ahead and
go up to one or two.And at the time, it was young
or Stroud, and I can proudlysay I was a Stroud guy. Ye
go up and get C. J. Stroud. I wish they would have
done that a year ago. Itfeels like I think everyone in the NFL

(14:15):
is wishing they had done that now, right but it feels like hindsight.
But you know that's you had thecapital then now you don't. So the
idea of getting higher than sixteen,it just does not seem like it's something
that John's going to be willing todo. I'm not sure a quarterback of
worthy of the sixteenth pick is goingto fall to you, and so at

(14:37):
that point, I'm not really allthat anxious to even get a quarterback this
year. Maybe draft one late justto add them to the quarterback room.
But for right now, I thinkSeahawk fans are going to have to accept,
for good or for bad Gino andSam Howell. That's the that's the
current quarterback room right now. Whereare you at with Gino? I think

(15:00):
he's a top twenty quarterback in theworld. I don't think he's the guy
that is going to unless you havea super Bowl roster around him. I
don't think that he's going to elevatea team to the super Bowl. And
I don't think this organization right nowis fielding a Super Bowl roster at this

(15:22):
point. So I think that certainlyyou're looking for the quarterback of the future
at that position, but for now, he's fine, and for now,
can you get into the playoffs withhim? Yes? I think you can
get into the playoffs with Gino Smithas your quarterback as he proved two years
ago. Yeah. Yeah, Andwe're obviously we're talking about the Seahawks here,

(15:43):
but you know, in the largerscale too, I thought the team
that was most interesting in this entiredraft was the Atlanta Falcons. They were
sitting with the eighth pick. Theyhave drafted in the top ten. It's
their fourth straight year drafting in thetop ten. They have taken playmakers each
of the last half years. Withthose picks, right Kyle Pitt's fourth overall,
you got Drake London tenth overall,and Bijon eighth, I believe,

(16:07):
I mean, and then you justrun them out there, these great players,
the best players on your roster ontheir rookie contracts, and you run
them out there with Desmond Ritter andMarcus Mariota, And to me, it
was like the highlight like the mosthighlighted way that you can show the need
like even if you build that rosteraround him, if you don't have at

(16:27):
least baseline competence at the quarterback position, you're fcked. And and like now
they they made their move. Italmost feels like they were pushed into a
position where it's like, we can'twait and gamble that somebody's going to fall
to us at eight. Let's justgo pay Kirk Cousins. Yeah, And

(16:48):
to me that made a lot ofsense. You know, Kirk Cousins,
what top twelve quarterback in the NationalWife League? I think so? Yeah,
I think very comfortably top twelve.Okay, and so they needed Okay,
you've assembled the pieces first. Youdid this bass ackwards. You assembled
the pieces first, and then youwent and got the most important position.

(17:12):
And I don't know who's instructing you. If your idea was well, we'll
get skill guys and they'll make thequarterback better. You want to get the
quarterback that complements the skill guys.And so I got to think that was
a lot of Arthur Smith having realsuccess putting Derrick Henry and AJ Brown around
Ryan Tannehill. And even he wasa first round draft, even he was

(17:34):
I mean, and I like Tannehill, yeah for sure. Yeah, but
no team was in more need ofgetting a guy to get the ball to
the right people and the right situations, and so that domino effect of Cousins
signing really did. I think theentire free agency period said so much about

(17:56):
where teams are with their comfort atthe quarterback position and what they're going to
do in the draft. We've alreadycovered the Raiders and the Vikings. For
them to have sat so quietly withsuch great needs to have let Cousins go
without a fight, it felt likefor the Raiders to have done nothing more
than at a career backup and GardnerMinshew for Denver to have not done anything

(18:21):
and sit there and just accept theway that the draft unfolds for them.
I think that the free agent marketkind of said volumes about what's going to
happen with quarterbacks in the upcoming draft, and I can't wait to see how
it all unfolds. Yeah, yeah, me too. You know. Another
really interesting team was the Pittsburgh Steelers. They're a team with a good roster.

(18:44):
I mean, Mike Tomlin, hisfloor is just nine wins. I
don't think the dude has ever hada losing seas like eighteen years right,
like he is the opinion we alwaystalk about Pete Carroll being a high floor
coach on this show. I thinkTomlin is the ultimate high floor a coach.
But Kenny Pickett was not that guy. Right. They were dealing with

(19:04):
Duck Hodges and Mason Rudolph behind it. I mean, all of these great
players, both on offense and defense, and they couldn't get over the hump.
They had a chance to get active, and they did. They got
Denver Broncos to pay all of RussellWilson's salary and then they traded for Justin
Fields. If you're a Steelers fan, how are you feeling? Uh?

(19:26):
Well, I know Steeler fans,and they don't feel good at all.
They are who do they want tostart Ben Roethlisberger? What's Bradshaw doing?
Yeah? I don't know. Likethe idea, the idea that somebody could

(19:51):
have predicted that Russe Wilson and JustinFields would have both ended up in Pittsburgh
in the same offseason, which ifyou imagine if you put down some money
on on that, uh in LasVegas, if there was some sort of
thing, wouldn't even have given youthe odds on that one. And then
for Russell and I mean we knoweach other fairly well, but I know

(20:12):
how many of these Cigar Thoughts podcastsyou have, so I don't know just
how much uh love you have foryour former face of the franchise. But
for him too, bade like yeah, okay, like Denver didn't happen on
his way to Pittsburgh for him tolike be acting as he goes into Pittsburgh

(20:36):
like oh, you guys can't waitfor me, And it's like this is
not the same situation. Okay,yeah, uh no, you are you?
You are going. I mean Denvercouldn't wait till you. They were
already throwing championship parades for you,pal, And now you're going to Pittsburgh
after those two horrible years, maybeyou fell asleep, maybe you've figured out

(20:57):
a psychological way to watch that fromyour memory bank. I don't know,
but those two years have colored youin a different way. So let's just
how about we fly under the radarRuss into Pittsburgh and just I mean,
you don't even have the job yet, you know, You're they just traded
for Justin Fields. You've got competitionat the quarterback position. So I would

(21:21):
have just thought that he would learna lissen, maybe fly under the radar,
not be the cheerleader, not havethirteen tweets a day saying here I
come, Pittsburgh, Get ready,let's eat horseshoes. Think you think these
guys on top of our sandwiches?Do you think he's gonna show up to
his first day of practice in hisown jersey again like he did. He's
gonna be dressed like a perogi,Like I'm one of you guys like at

(21:45):
me, let's go meet the hindsketchup bottle and let's take pictures of one
another. Just fly under the radar, go in there and win the job,
kick some ass, and let's go. That's your approach right now.
No, I'm with you, man, And and like for any new listeners
who maybe not familiar with my feelingson Russell Wilson, like, look,
I think he's one of the mostimportant Seahawks of all time. I think
he's the best quarterback the franchise hasever had. I think that Seattle got

(22:08):
absolutely everything out of him and gotout at the right time. And I
will say I was wrong at thetime I spent a lot of time on
this show talking about how if youhave to choose between the thirty two year
old quarterback in what I thought wasstill the prime of his career, in

(22:29):
the seventy year old head coach,you take the quarterback. And I was
wrong, and they saw it andthey made the move. And it might
have been just as much about gettingrid of his agent, Mark Rodgers as
it was with Russell Wilson. Butin the same token, like, yeah,
I cheered against Denver and I cheeredagainst Russell Wilson, but I did
that not from a shortened fraud standpoint, but from a we got your first

(22:52):
round pick and we got your secondround pick. I want you to suck.
I want the Seahawks. I mean, they don't have a top five
pick with out Russell's in the bedin Denver. So yeah, it's gonna
be super curious to see at thispoint. Sure, I'd like to see
him do well, why not?That'd be fun. But I wouldn't say
that my hopes are super high,and I don't get the sense that the
Steelers' hopes are super high about iteither. Well, I mean you talk

(23:18):
about high floor, I mean,does this take you to is this what
you were missing? Because that's whatthe move sort of suggests that you feel
that this is what you're missing.Just a little bit better quarterback play,
and then what can we possibly do? I think it's going to take.
I think it's going to be Weektwo when George Pickens has gotten open on

(23:41):
a quick slant for the eighteenth timeand not gotten the ball because Russ has
dropped his eyes and tried to spinout of a pass rush to make something
happen downfield. I think that's gonnabe the most interesting dynamic on that team
is George Pickens, who is theultimate talented diva wide receiver, and that's
how I want my wide receivers.I love that. But Russ better be

(24:03):
getting him the ball on time well, and then that's just it when you
make the double move like that.I mean, Russ has never looked over
his shoulder m HM as a pro, even in Denver, even in the
struggle year, he wasn't looking overhis shoulder. This will be just the
second time in his entire career thathe's not going to have a head coach

(24:23):
that's worried about his feelings. MikeTomlin is good at being Mike Tomlin and
that has nothing to do with whetheror not your feelings get hurt or not.
So he's gonna be facing something thathe's really never even faced before,
and that is you're going in prettymuch fifty to fifty competition, maybe fifty

(24:45):
one forty nine to get this started. But that Steeler fan base, the
moment you don't play well, isgoing to be asking to see justin fields.
Not even that wasn't even happening inDenver because there wasn't anybody of note
to put pressure on him in Denver. So you know he's entering a new
world right now, there's no questionabout it. Yeah, he sure is.
And all of this sets the tablefor the draft man. And look,

(25:08):
he's a quarterback centric draft. Soyou talked about how there's going to
be four quarterbacks very early in thisdraft. There are seven quarterbacks in my
mind that are making waves in thedraft discussion. You obviously have Caleb Williams,
Drake May, Jayden Daniels, JJMcCarthy has been the guy with just

(25:32):
turbo strapped to his draft prospect,and then you've got Michael Pennix, You've
got Bo Nicks, Spencer Rattler,give me your top five quarterbacks in this
draft in order, how I thinkthey'll go, or how I would rank
them, how you would rank them. Well, I'll put Caleb Williams first,
but I don't think he's without redflags. I think there's a real

(25:56):
character issue. He's got to getto the right coach, the right city,
right system to maximize his talents,because I think he's highly immature.
But I'll still put him first becauseI don't know, is there not been
many that can do everything like hecan and that includes run the ball.
I mean, he's got running backtalent. You know, he's he's just

(26:19):
so gifted, so elusive, andhe can you know, it's kind of
like, you know, there's likePatrick Mahomes to him, but also there's
and it's not a Lamar Jackson.It's almost like a Josh Allen, Like
he's got some like running ability.He can even run you over if he
has to. So I'm gonna sayshe's number one. I will go ahead

(26:44):
and acknowledge because it's almost the evidenceis overwhelming from the guys who truly know
what they're talking about, that JadenDaniels is just that special. But I'll
throw this into the mix, andI'm not trying to dodge my top five.
How is there much that much difference, Jackson, between Jade and Daniels
and Michael Pennix and the evaluation?Where do my not seeing that one of

(27:10):
them is considered. I mean,I just heard dan Orlowski last week say
he should be the number one pickin the draft versus Michael Pennix, who
Daniel Jeremiah still has rated as histhirty third best player overall. Where's the
disconnect? Because I see two guysat the exact same age, there's seven

(27:30):
months difference. Michael's a little bitolder. Pennix has had the better consistent
career even when they were on differentteams. Jade Daniels was good at Arizona
State, Michael PENNOCKX was better atIndiana, and then Jade Daniels was good
at LSU his junior year. MichaelPennix hit the ground running at Washington and

(27:55):
then they both had very comparable senioryears in which Pennix won the awards,
led his team to a better season, but Daniels won the individual awards.
But now that we get to thedraft process, I guess Pennis has an
injury history, but his medicals checkedout. And I'm looking at Jade Daniels
six foot three, fourteen pounds,and if you want to project, like

(28:18):
who's going to stay healthy, I'mnot sure that I'd put Daniels ahead of
Pennix. So I'm not saying Daniels. I'm not even trying to take away
from Daniels. But if Daniels istwo, how is Pennix like not butted
up right up against him arm andDaniels. Daniels is more mobile, But

(28:40):
do you really want that in theNational Football League anymore? With a skinny
quarterback these days? I mean,the Ravens had one of those, and
they decided, Hey, we gotto ring that guy in. We got
to protect him, we got totake care of him. We can't have
him running around. He's getting hurtnow. So I don't how is Pennix
not butted up right against Jade andDaniels in the quarterback evaluation? Yeah,
well, this is definitely a topicthat deserves more oxygen because I have struggled

(29:04):
with what appears to be within thedraft community, this massive delta between Jaden
Daniels and Michael Pennix here's what I'llsay. This is why I think it
exists, and here's why I haveJaden Daniels higher than Michael Pennix. Okay,
Jade Daniels is coming off of thesingle greatest statistical season any quarterback has
ever had, right, I mean, he highest rated season of all time,

(29:26):
the most total yards of all time. He was beating defenses in the
SEC, which still carries massive cloutin the NFL. That if there is
anything that is considered a minor leaguefor the NFL, it's not the XFL,
it's not NFL Europe. It's theSEC. And he dominated the SEC.

(29:48):
He won the Heisman with just themost preposterous stat lines you could ever
hope for. And I think forNFL teams it's really difficult not to look
at that and not to see howmobile quarterbacks are really starting to take over
the position in the NFL and saythe ceiling on this guy from both of
those perspectives is just higher now,is Yeah. I also think the injury

(30:14):
history, I mean, Michael penhad four season ending injuries in college.
That's not nothing that is going togive any NFL GM pause. I agree
with you that Jayden Daniels plays thestyle of football that invites injury more than
Michael Pennix does. But I thinkthat there's upside with Jayden Daniels in the
sheer volume of ways he can beatan NFL defense that doesn't exist with Michael

(30:37):
Pennick. So for me, that'swhy that difference exists. But I agree
with you, I don't think thedifference should be as big. Where one
is a lock top five pick andthe other is, yeah, maybe he's
the Day two guy. That tome doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
But I've got Jadan Daniels higher.But you've been dodging the question who's
your number two? Who's your numbertwos? Fine, well, I would

(30:59):
just push back a little bit.But from this because I'm not so sure
the NFL is still moving toward themobile quarterback. I think they're starting to
move back toward raining them in.And I'll give you the example. It's
Brock Purty, it's even Patrick Mahomes. That ability to run when you have
to run, but the decision ofwhen to run has become more important,

(31:21):
of having more important than ever.So to me, what Patrick Mahomes has
shown us in the national Football Leagueis I know what play is required in
that given play that gives us themost yards. I know where to get
the ball, who to get theball to or to keep it. Patrick
Mahomes did not win the Super Bowlthis year because he has the strongest arm

(31:45):
in the National Football League, canthrow off platform and makes no look passes
and everything else. He won becausehe made the smartest quarterback decisions play by
play and any of anybody in theNFL. And brock Purty being a seventh
round pick who's taken over, who'sbeen given the keys to the nicest car

(32:07):
in the National Football League the lastcouple of years, we cannot be overstated,
is also made. That's his strengthas well as I get the ball
where it needs to go. Andnow, if you tried to trade brock
Purty, you get a first rounddraft pick for him. Forget about,
you know, being the seventh roundselection. He's got to be looked at
as a first round draft pick.Now. So that's why I think bow

(32:30):
Knicks. Actually there's the people thatare souring on bon Nicks. I'm not
sure there's anybody in this draft whoknows where to get the ball more consistently
than bo Nicks. He reminds mevery much of a party type, and
so I think that's a first rounddraft pick this year. I think Michael
Pennix has the best arm, accuracyand strength in this draft. And so

(32:54):
if I if I, if Ipersonally had to rank them, as I
said, I will go with Williamsfirst. I'll go ahead and give you
Daniels second. I'm putting Pennix third, I'm putting May fourth, I'm putting
Nick's fifth. And I just didnot see enough out of JJ McCarthy in
college to think that he's ready toplay at this level. Only but he's
a winner, Chuck, He's awinner. Well, what I will give

(33:16):
him is he's twenty one and everybodyelse is like thirty eight. Yeah,
okay, so I'll give him thathe's twenty one. I mean, there's
a lot that can change. Yeah, And just to jump in here,
Yeah, the h thing is sointeresting because we have seen for a long
time now that good quarterbacks will begood well into their thirties and so on.

(33:44):
Where are you're going. On onehand, it's like, okay,
yeah, the age thing, maybeit doesn't matter so much. But on
the other hand, it's like,Okay, Michael Pennix started dominating at twenty
two twenty three against college football players. Bo Nicks really kind of struggled.

(34:05):
I mean, he came in withall of the hoopla coming out of high
school, you know, Elite eleven, all that kind of stuff, went
to Auburn and was alright, wentto Oregon and there's a lot of pretty
overlap there. I do like thatthat connection that he made because Oregon's offense
was, hey, we have thefastest players in the country, get them
the ball early. He had thelowest average depth of target of all qualified

(34:31):
quarterbacks, which is like one hundredand twenty six quarterbacks in the NFL last
year. Not to say he can'tthrow it deep, Not to say he
can't make those second level throws,which I think are the most important throws
in the NFL because, especially withthe advent of this too high shell safety
defense that everyone is playing now,you have to be able to hit that
mid range jumper. He can't dothat. He just didn't do a lot

(34:52):
of it. So bringing it backto JJ McCarthy is like, Okay,
yeah, how much does the ahifsmatter? Well, he won national championship
at twenty years old, and soit's like, Okay, what happens if
the next two years of his developmentthat Nix and Rattler and Daniels and Pennix
all got to do against college guys. What if he gets those developmental years

(35:15):
at the NFL level? How muchdoes that accelerate his growth? So that,
I think, to me is theargument with JJ McCarthy. But you've
got I agree. So if I'vegot this correctly, you've got kill Williams
one, You've got Jade Daniels two, Pennix three, May four, Knicks
five, and then presumably McCarthy wouldbe next. Yeah, McCarthy would be

(35:37):
six. But I acknowledge that.I mean the three year gap, the
difference that an athlete is at agetwenty one versus twenty four. I mean
we're about ready to find that withJulio Rodriguez. What's the difference between your
twenty one age and then now you'vegot three years of experience on that and
just the physical maturation that takes place. So I kind of get that NFL

(36:00):
teams might see three more years ofgrowth from a young man that gets it,
that gets and knows how to win. So if that's what you're using.
But in terms of just evaluation ofwhere quarterbacks are right now, and
most of them are older in thisdraft, it just to me Michael Pennix

(36:20):
just seems to be getting the shortend of the stick on all of this
evaluation process, and I think Nicksdoes as well, and I would just
the other thing that I would justpush back on just slightly is Patrick Malmes
won the Super Bowl last year byand I don't Hugh Millan broke this down
for us on KJR. I thinkhe threw like one pass in the second
half over ten yards in the SuperBowl, the half that decided who wins

(36:45):
the game. He was just gettingthe ball where he needed to, where
there was green grass ahead of theguy catching it. That's all he was
doing. That's kind of what theposition is becoming. As unsexy as that
sounds, the ability to throw itand to be able to make any throw
when it's required. Yes, butat the heart of playing the quarterback position

(37:08):
today, with as sophisticated and fastas defenses are, teams are really looking
for that guy that can you getthe ball where it needs to be on
most plays and get it there accurately. So that's where McCarthy, I think,
gets rated a little higher. ButI also think Michael Pennix has that
ability to do that as well.Yeah, I think, and I think

(37:30):
we all saw that the way thatI would rank my top five right now
subject to change, of course,but we're not going to see any more
real on field stuff between now andthe draft. So yeah, a lot
of any opinion changing that happens overthe next month month and a half is
going to have to do with whatyou're hearing about, how these guys are
interviewing and all of that sort ofthing. But for me, it's capb

(37:53):
Williams number one. I mean,I am less concerned about, you know,
perceived personality shortcomings or whatever with him, not to write them off that
we talk about all the time,Mike and I. How important if you're
going to be the franchise quarterback.You don't just have to be good on

(38:15):
Sunday. You are the CE,you're the face of a fortune five hundred
company. You got to do allof that stuff. Here's what I like
about Caleb Williams. You know,it seems like he's got a little bit
of a LeVar Ball dad, Butthat dad speaking understood. Yeah. Well,

(38:37):
but here's the thing though, right, Like what a lot of pro
athletes struggle with is going from beingbig man on campus to being a professional.
And one of the things that CalebWilliams dad did when he was like
eleven years old, he saw andinvested in the talent in his son and

(39:00):
the show Scandal. You're familiar withthis, the familiar with it? Yeah,
yeah, the Olivia Pope character,she's like the Washington, DC fit
fixer for the politicians and the moversand the shakers whatever. The person,
the woman that that character was basedoff of, is a real life person,
Katleb. Williams dad hired her whenCaleb was eleven to start coaching him

(39:22):
up to be an NFL quarterback andeverything that goes into the pr aspect of
that. So I think he's ready. I think this is a young man
that completely understands how much leverage hehas is not afraid to wield it.
That's going to turn a lot ofpeople off, but if you can lean
into that, I think that hisceiling is even higher as a result of

(39:45):
that level of preparation. I thinkthere's going to be less adjustment to the
limelight for Kaleb Williams than any otherquarterback in this draft, and honestly for
most quarterbacks that have ever come intothe NFL. So Caleb and then I'm
not even talking about it physical talent, which I think is far and away
the best in this class. Numbertwo for me is Drake May. Drake

(40:05):
May is a quarterback that I wouldhave zero hesitation making my franchise quarterback moving
forward. I would build a rosteraround this guy. I would build a
marketing campaign around this guy. Ifeel so confident in Drake May's potential as
an NFL quarterback. And I thinkthat you know, you talked about Caleb
Williams even having a little bit ofJosh Allen to him. Look, I

(40:28):
said when Josh Allen because I wasnot Josh Allen guy. That was a
big miss for me. I didn'tthink he was I didn't think he was
going to make it in the NFLbecause there's a huge track record of quarterbacks.
If you're inaccurate in college, you'regoing to be inaccurate in the NFL.
And he broke that mold. Hewas inaccurate in college at Wyoming,
got away with just being the bestathlete on the field, every single game

(40:51):
and then revamped his throwing style asa pro and became a top notch thrower
of the football. Drake May isalready there. He has the physical talent.
He is the prototypical big, strongpocket quarterback, but he can move
and his off platform throwing. IfCaleb Williams didn't exist, we would be

(41:12):
talking about Drake May as the guycapable of making every throw from every angle.
You're gonna have to rain him in. To your point, I think
that's very important. Turnovers are thebane of every NFL head coach's existence.
But this guy is not afraid togo out and try and win you a
game with talent he has. He'smy number two. Jaydon Daniels just for
the incredible upside that he showcased inthe SEC is my number three. Pennix

(41:37):
is number four. I think theleague is way too low on him.
At the end of the day,you have to be able to make throws
to all three levels, even thoughwe are seeing the average depth of target
in the NFL come down dramatically yearover year in the NFL. To your
point, Penis can make those throws, But you brought up rock party.
Look I like brock Purty Rock Partyis not making the third level throw into

(42:00):
tight coverage when you need it.There's going to be three throws in every
game against a good team, notagainst most teams that you play in the
regular season, and you're up byseventeen in the second half and it's just
don't fit this up. But whenyou're winning, needing to win against good
teams, you have to make thatthrow. And Perty doesn't make that throw,

(42:23):
not into the tight windows. Now, since they started tracking separation data
for wide receivers, no team inhistory has had a higher level of separation
per route than the forty nine ersdid last year, which means brock Perty's
margin for error was higher than anyquarterback in the history of charting this.

(42:45):
But those margins went away against theKansas City Chiefs and Steve Swagnello's defense,
and he wasn't able to make thethrows that weren't the dumpoffs, that weren't
the short intermediary throws. So tome, a guy like Pennix, who
showed over and over and over againthat not only he can make those throws,
he's willing to make those throws.I think he's number four, and

(43:06):
I think he is nipping at theheels number three, and then for me,
it is JJ McCarthy at number five. It's hard not if if I
was an NFL owner, if Iwas an NFLGM, and my reputation and
this massive investment that I've made isrelying on a quarterback JJ McCarthy. I
mean, you go back through thisguy's Twitter till point he was like thirteen.

(43:30):
It's all inspirational quotes and football clipslike this is the guy that you
can just lean into and say,I at least trust him on that point.
And I think that he made enoughplays in college to say, like,
yeah, I feel good about him, but he would be my number
five. He's like a Brady Doll, like yeah, yes, it's a
great way of putting it. Yeah, yeah, he can. He's got

(43:51):
some of the mannerisms. You canpress a button and he'll say some of
like Brady esque quotes, kind oflooks like him, kind of built like
him, went to the same Andbelieve me, somebody in the top five
is going to convince them that he'sthe next can convince themselves that he's the
next Tom Brady. I wouldn't besurprised. I McCarthy ends up going two.
There's whispers, man, Yeah,there's whispers, And you know what,

(44:14):
Like, I get it. Iwouldn't make that choice right now,
but I get it. Yeah,I understand it, you know. So
Yeah, I mean, like wesaid, at the top, quarterbacks,
they're the heaviest dominoes, but there'sa lot of other dominoes. And one
of the positions that's been at thevery tail end of this that the league

(44:34):
has very famously deprioritized over the lastfive years as the running back position.
Yet in this free agency, now, granted, we saw a lot of
talent available in free agency, moreso than normal, but we saw running
backs get prioritized. The first freeagent to sign was Tony Pollard and it
was a real contract, and thenDeAndre Swift an hour later got the same

(44:58):
contract, three years, twenty fourmillion dollars. Then we saw Josh Jacobs
get a big conscience the biggest contractsince maybe Zeke Elliott. I don't think
we're ever going to see six yearsfor ninety million again, but four forty
eight is real money, and Iknow that a lot of that's front loaded.
And we saw Saquon Barkley three forthirty seven. So, Derek Henry,
I think two for twenty in Baltimore. Teams are spending real money on

(45:21):
these courts, are on these runningbacks this offseason. How does that square
with you how you view the NFL, and how does it shape your view
of this position going into the draft? You know, it's a I love
this because I think there is youknow, I mean, it's not just
like a happenstance that Jackson and Idecided to do a draft podcast together.

(45:45):
There's like a mutual admiration society thatwe've had for each test for pretty sure
time. But I love that we'vealready got like things that we can disagree
about because and I know I amthe odd ball in this. Most people
are singing the song that you're singingabout running backs. To me, this
was what are the seven levels ofgrief? The running backs finally reached acceptance

(46:10):
this year that because you think aboutI mean, Josh Jacobs, yeah,
I got a high contract. RunningBacks are making less than guards, They're
making less than tight ends now.And this is really the first year where
the running back group it's like theyhad a meeting and they're like, we

(46:31):
can't wait till the end of everyfree agency and think that national football leagues
have changed their tune about us.This obviously the direction that they're going in,
and if we want our money,we got to get it early.
That's what I think happened this offseason. It was an acceptance finally that we

(46:52):
just aren't as cool as we shouldbe, you know, in the eyes
of organizations. I mean the factthat nobody will slap of the franchise tag
this year. The fact that therewere so many big names running back wise
on the market, all at theexact same time, shows you that these
teams are not fighting to keep theSaquon Barkleys, Josh Jacobs and Derrick Henry's

(47:15):
of the world. Derrick Henry andSaquon Barkley were the face of the franchise
still at their two previous stops.So I look at it, I read
it just the opposite. I thinkthat the running back market, there's just
such an acceptance now, even amongthe running backs, even people in running

(47:36):
back village acknowledge we're just not asbig a deal as we used to be,
or that we think that we shouldbe. Let's take what money is
there, Let's make sure we don'tlose out on the money that is available
to us. So I think theyran to the first great offer that they
got and everything else be damned.So I actually think that this offseason and

(48:00):
spoke more to the devaluing of runningbacks more than it did to signify some
sort of turnaround back in the oldschool direction. Okay, so you see
this as more of like a singledata point as opposed to like maybe the
beginning of a trend back up,because Okay, I think it's the end
of a book. It's like ifyou wrote a book the devaluation of the

(48:24):
running back position. This is likethe fine Maybe it does reverse back Jackson
in the future, but this isalmost that will have to be volume two.
Okay. This one, though,is like the final chapter where even
the best running backs in the worldare like, we're not as valuable as
guards and tight ends. We acceptthat is crazy, and I think it's

(48:45):
wrong. I think it's wrong.I do. I do. You can't.
You can't tell me that you knowwill Disley love him whatever? Well,
can't tell me that he that heis affecting your win and your losses
as much as a good running back, as much as the Derrick Henry as

(49:06):
much as a Tony Pollard or evena DeAndre Swift. There's no way Will
Disley is making that same amount ofimpact. I agree, But I think
what this is saying is that eventhough the position itself still has a great
impact, there are so many moreof them that can make that impact that
we're not going to break the bankeven for the best ones out there.

(49:30):
That's the message that has been delivered. I think there is a marked difference
between having Saquon Barkley and Thomas Rowles. Sorry sorry to pick on a former
Seahawk running back, but there's amarked difference between that and a fifth round
pick in the upcoming draft, forexample. But because there are so many

(49:53):
guys that can get the job foryou. I mean, we talked about
rock Perty being an outlier. We'reseeing a four, fifth, sixth,
seventh round running back every year makean impact on the National Football League.
So I think that's that's the layerthat we've reached in the stages of grief,
is that the acceptance that we're justnot going to be paid that much

(50:15):
money, so let's take what wecan get. And I think it's going
to affect the draft as well.I mean dude, this might be the
first draft where we don't see arunning back taken until the third round for
this upcoming draft, and it's noteven out of the question. Could you
imagine if we went two full dayswithout a running back being taken. Yeah,
yeah, I don't think that's gonnahappen, but it is within the

(50:38):
Roman possibility. And there's a coupleof things that you mentioned that that I
want to touch on here because inone sense, I do think because this
is a class of running back andwe're going to talk about some of the
individual running backs here in a momentthat is considered depressed from a game changing

(50:58):
talent standpoint, changed the fact thattwo running backs went in the top twelve
picks last year. I think anotherinteresting thing is we are going to see
the impact of nil in college affectthis position more than any other, because
the best running back that was supposedto be in this draft class ended up

(51:19):
going back, Traveon Henderson out ofOhio State. He would have been the
first running back off the board,maybe a first round pick, but he's
going to make more in college.He means more to Ohio State than he
does to whatever NFL team drafts him, and I'm curious to see if every
year the best running backs who thefirst year they're eligible for the draft are
like, yeah, it could belike a Day two pick maybe, or

(51:43):
I can stay and make five milliondollars and still be Cock of the Walk
in college. They're going to dothat, and I think that is going
to force NFL teams to start prioritizingthat because we've talked a lot about Brock
Party. We've talked more about BrockParty than i'd like to so far on
the show. But I think thathe is such an important inflection point for

(52:04):
the entire NFL discourse, Like,oh, you can just find brock Purty
and win all of these different directionsyou can go, how good is he?
Actually? Listen, brock Purty's winlost record is Christian McCaffrey's win lost
record. Okay, the forty nineers, in my mind, transformed from
a very good team to an incredibleteam because of Christian McCaffrey more than they

(52:28):
did because of brock Purty. Well, I agree, but I also wouldn't
put Christian. I put Christian McCaffreyas much in an outlier category as I
do brock Purty because Christian McCaffrey.Look at what Dalvin Cook did last year.
I mean, Dalvin Cook was comingoff like an eleven hundred yard season
and fourteen touchdowns, and for whateverreason, the NFL all at the exact

(52:50):
same time knew he was done.Hey, they all knew he was done.
Good point, and he was done. McCaffrey is sort of the exception
to the rule right now in thesport. No team wants that running back
under contract that hits that NFL proverbialwall. So I kind of put him
in a separate category. But Idon't disagree with what you're saying. I

(53:13):
mean, we had the conversation allyear long about how much should Perdy be
a part of the MVP conversation,and my two cents, we're not at
all. I mean, you can'tbe the sixth best offensive player on your
team and be an MVP candidate.So I see what you're saying. But
I also think McCaffrey's so special thatmaybe he's the difference maker, the true

(53:36):
difference maker at that position. Idon't know if I'm going to build my
running back philosophy around the guy thatdoes it the best, if that makes
sense. I think that's fair enough. And you know, one of the
things we're going to do on thisshow each week leading up to the draft
is focus on a different positional groupin this draft class. And because I
think that the running back position hasbecome such a lightning rod in the NFL

(53:59):
discourse over the last few years,that's where we're going to start. So
you said it, man, there'sno Bejon Robinson or Jamiir Gibbs in this
class. But those were two reallyhigh picks that show they're probably worth it.
Right, We're not going to seethat from a draft capital standpoint,
but I do this year. ButI do think there is real talent in

(54:20):
this draft class. So I knowyou and I we've been we've been digging
into these guys because we're just freakingdegenerates. But there are there will be
running backs drafted this year that makean impact for their teams, that hurt
their teams games. So as youlook at this class, who are some
of the guys that stand out toyou? Well, I'm I would say

(54:43):
first about Robinson and Gibbs, theguys that are going to be drafted high
in the future at the running backposition, at least for the moment.
I mean, this could change.This is this sport is constantly changing,
and people are following what the successful. So glad you said, it's the
most underrated part of all NFL discourses. How and quick this league evolves.

(55:04):
And when everybody's zigging and then theteam decides the zag and they have success,
guess what the very next year,everybody's zaggers and they're gonna go They're
gonna go the other They're gonna gothe other direction. It's just how the
way that the thing has operated sinceI started watching football, however, many
years ago. But right now,like Bjon, Robinson goes that high because
he impacts the passing game about asmuch as he affects the running game.

(55:28):
And although we didn't necessarily see itout of Jamier Gibbs, he certainly has
that potential and he is a homerun threat every time he touches the ball.
I don't know if we have oneof those guys in the draft.
I think the guy that makes thebest impact right away is Blake Korum out
of Michigan. There is something aboutthat tank that I think that he's knows

(55:51):
how to get lost at five footseven in the crowd. But He can
also run over you, run pastyou, run through you. So he
might be the guy that I thinkhas the quickest impact on the league.
As far as where the Seahawks mightgo with it, I think maybe you're
either going to go one or twodirections. Either you're just gonna draft somebody

(56:14):
late for depth. If you weretrying to get somebody that changes your look
from down to down, then it'sprobably Bucky Irving. They don't have a
Bucky Irving. There are guys inthis draft that remind me of what Zach
Sharpina brings to the table, andthere might be a guy that can do
what Ken Walker does and I dostress might but really stressing MC. Yeah,

(56:37):
Bucky Irving does something different that theSeahawks don't have, and so I'll
just try to keep my list short. I think Koram's probably the first running
back off the board, and Idon't think that's going to happen until the
third round. But the guy thatif I might be most interested in in
this group from a Seahawks perspective,might be Bucky Irving, just because he's

(57:00):
brings something completely different to the tablethan what the other guys do. In
my running back room. Yeah,you know, I think an interesting comp
for Bucky Irving is Kyron Williams.Where you've got a guy who he's smaller
in stature, he's sturdy, buthe's going to catch throat to him,
doesn't fumble. He's and here's here'sthe other thing that we need to keep

(57:23):
the top of mind when we're talkingabout running backs is what do head coaches
value in their running backs. Thereis a reason that Frank Gore stayed in
the league forever. There is areason that Carlos Hyde, who I think
is the best comp for Blake Korum, stayed in the league for so long,
Leonard Fournette, et cetera. BecauseI mean, Ezekiel Elliott will have

(57:45):
a job in the NFL till he'sforty if he wants, even when he
loses his explosiveness, because he canrecognize blitz cover or blitzes. He's going
to pick up his blocks. He'snot going to get his quarterback killed.
He's going to catch everything you throwto him. He's going to get everything
that's blocked for him. That iswhen you're talking about Bucky Irving and Blake

(58:06):
Korum, these are the safe runningbacks. I agree with you with Blake
Korum being attractive in that, Ithink of all the running backs in this
draft, he's the one that NFLteams are going to look at and say,
we can give him the ball onday one if we have to,
If we don't already have the guy, he can step in and be the
guy. I think he has amuch lower ceiling than a lot of these

(58:29):
other guys. I think that you'reright. He has good vision. He
has amazing feat. You know,if any of you listening watch the combine,
you know, obviously we get caughtup in the testing numbers, and
Quorum tested pretty well. But whenthey were running the drill where you got
a high step over the tackling dummiesthat'll lay down and then you know,

(58:50):
the coach shows the pads one wayand you got to go the other way.
He dominated that drill. It's likethe what do they call it,
the gauntlet drill for wide receivers,where it's like, okay, yeah,
you can run this fast and jumpthis high, but like, can you
run in a straight line catching passes? And that's what that drill was for
me for running backs, and Quorumdominated it. I do think it's just

(59:12):
a lower ceiling. There's he's goingto get you four yards to ten yards,
but he's never going to get youeighty yards. There are a few
guys in this draft that excite mein the blow the top off the defense
type, and I think one ofthem is Trey Benson, who I think
is going to be the first runningback taken in this draft out of Florida
State. He showed up. He'sthe prototype. He's big, he's strong,

(59:35):
he's incredibly fast, explosive, allthose things. Now, I don't
love his tape, but I thinkthat coaches believe so much in their ability
to get their hands on a guywho has the tools and teach him to
be great, Trey Benson will bethe number one. I think the best
running back in this draft class isJonathan Brooks out of Texas, and if
he hadn't blown out his knee latein the season, I don't think there'd

(59:57):
be any question that he'd be thefirst running back off the board. I
think he would be round two pick. But now teams are going to have
to say, Okay, is youknow he tore his acl Is he gonna
come back like rees Halt or ishe going to come back like JK Dobbins
is you know, is he goingto be Travis Etn Or is he going
to be Javonte Williams. Like that'sa big gamble to take. But because

(01:00:22):
we're not going to see a runningback in the top fifteen picks, we're
not going to see teams drafting forimmediate impact at this position the way that
we have in the past. Andif it were me, Jonathan Brooks,
I'm going to take my four tosix months between the draft and you know,
there's talk that he'll probably be readyfor the beginning of the season,

(01:00:42):
but realistically it's probably closer to Halloweenor even Thanksgiving before he's really making an
impact. I think he's the bestrunning back in this class. He's a
running back out of Texas. He'smy guy. Yeah, Well, I
think it's a corral adding to yourcorral kind of year for the entire national
football Nearly every team's going to drafta running back and just add a piece
to their corral, uh and thenand see what emerges from that. So

(01:01:07):
it just feels like there's an awfullot of third to fifth round talent at
this position. The Seahawks will adda piece at this position, they might
be one of the teams that doesn'tadd anything until the sixth or seventh round.
But you know, speaking to thegeneral point about running backs today,

(01:01:28):
I don't know if there's there's nota Beejon Robinson. I think we both
agree on that. I think thatthis could be record setting in terms of
how long it takes for the firstguy comes off the board. But between
Brooks and Benson and there are stillothers that we could add to this Rail
Allen, I mean, there area lot of guys with upside certainly that
could end up being number one RBRB one's for NFL teams for years to

(01:01:52):
come. But it's going to beone of those kind of drafts for the
running back position. Yeah, youknow, there's a couple other names I
want to touch on here. Oneone is Braylen Allen, who is just
like the gigantor out of Wisconsin.He's one of those guys that accelerated his
his graduation requirements to get to campusat seventeen years old. Highest rated running

(01:02:16):
back prospect out of his class inhigh school. He goes to Wisconsin as
like eleven hundred yards as a seventeenyear old six' four. I think
he's like two thirty five. Hetested well at the combine at some point.
I don't love his feet and Idon't love his eyes. But you
can teach feet and you can teacheyes. You can't teach six' four.

(01:02:36):
You can't teach too thirty five,and you can't teach his speed and
explosiveness. With that, I thinkteams are going to fall enough that someone
is going to say that could behis his top five percent outcome. That
could be Derrick Henry. So Ithink he's going to go high. Uh.
The guy that Jacobs Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean Brandon Jacobs

(01:02:59):
is like the outlier outliers, islike two hundred and sixty pounds and like
competent as a running back. Helooked like cgi he did and he existed
in a bygone era. Also,he had Tiki Barber there with him.
It was it was the true thunderand lightning right. But for me,
the guy that I'm most excited about, and I hate putting this out there

(01:03:19):
because I know I got people listeningwho are in dynasty football leagues with me.
I love Jalen Wright out of Tennessee. I think that what Devon Chan
did last year, averaging seven pointeight yards per carry, scoring a touchdown
every ten times he touches his ball. His first healthy game, the guy

(01:03:40):
goes for two hundred and forty yardsand four touchdowns. There's going to be
coaches looking for the next guy,right, we talk about looking for the
next rock Party, we talk aboutlooking for the next Patrick Mahomes. As
we go through these different positional groupsover the next few weeks, we're going
to be talking about, you know, these prototypes that teams are going to
reach on the off chance that theybecome that Davon H. Chan destroyed.

(01:04:02):
I mean, he was a borderlineOlympic level sprinter. Jalen Wrights first ten
yards in the forty at the combinewere faster than Davon A Chan's and the
first ten yards are the most importantten yards because it's very rare that as
a running back you're ever running ina straight line for twenty thirty forty or
more yards. And he was great, ran four to three to three.

(01:04:25):
But he's big. He's two hundredand ten pounds, and it's really difficult
because Tennessee runs a little bit ofa cartoon offense. They're a little you
know what Josh Hipel is doing inTennessee is spread your receivers all the way
out to the boundary. There's likethree yard splits between. Yeah, ye's

(01:04:46):
right, you're never going to getthe seven or eight man box. I
do get that. You're one hundredpercent right, I do get that.
But at the end of the day, you have a blink to hit a
gap. In the NFL, thethe gap between the talent delta between defensive
linemen offensive lineman is bigger now thanit's ever been, and it's it's a

(01:05:10):
trend that has continued for ten years. So you have very little time to
get through that hole. It's whatmakes Ken Walker great, It's what makes
the best running backs in the NFLgreat is they can hit that hole very
quickly. I don't think there's anybodyin this draft class that does that better
than Jalen Right, and I willnot be surprised if he stinks his way
into Day two. Yeah, andof Day two yeah, Well, I

(01:05:32):
think he's kind of projecting there,like you know, third round selection,
there's no question. And if he'sthe people start seeing ch hand. I
mean, people might have been worriedabout the size, but he kind of
blew that away the first time hewas given a couple of carries for the
Miami Dolphins. So I mean they'rethere again. This is This is Corral

(01:05:55):
adding this is there's certainly talent outhere. There doesn't seem to be the
complete running back in this draft classthat's gonna warrant a first round selection,
but certainly there's talent of plenty outhere to add to teams. You know,
we we're doing this through a Seahawkslens here today. I think they'll

(01:06:16):
add something to the running back position. But I mean I think you and
I and every Seahawk fan agrees we'vegot the guy. Walker is the guy,
and we're just sitting here waiting forhis fifteen hundred yard season. When's
that gonna happen? When man's right, He's come on right, He's right,
He's right there, Ken, He'sthe top five carrier of the football

(01:06:39):
on the planet. Right, lovehim? Yeah, but it just you
know, you just didn't see.I mean, he was he had more
explosive moments in his rookie season thanhe even had in his second season.
But it's there. He's he's readyto be a top flight running back.
In the National Football League. SoI don't think that you know you're adding
anything to in this draft that's gonnachallenge him. I think you're set at

(01:07:02):
this position more so just about anyon your roster at this point. But
they probably will dabble, they willadd something. They might even add a
gore to the group. They mightbe Frank Frank gorg Jr. Is out
there. He had a great coalYou know, I agree with you talking

(01:07:23):
about the Seahawks if I don't thinkthey're going to draft a running back.
I don't know that Mike McDonald wouldhave picked to have two second round running
backs on his roster, But that'swhat you're inheriting. And I think that
they're good, and I think theyhave complimentary skill sets out of course being
Ken Walker and Zach Sharbonay. Butif they McIntosh, yeah, we see

(01:07:45):
any of they've They've got McIntosh whowho's kind of that sprightly, little third
down back type of guy, hurryup offense type of guy. But if
they do take a shot at runningback, I think it's going to be
very late. And I think theguy that I have earmarked for them is
Isaac Grenda running back out of Louisvilleshowed up at two hundred and fifteen pounds

(01:08:09):
and ran what a four two ninesomething like that, just you know,
decimating the speed score, which isbasically taking your forty yard dash and accounting
for your weight, and he hasone hundred percentile speed score. That's who
I think if at least if Iwas John Schneider and Mike McDonald like,

(01:08:30):
okay, you know what, wedo need to add someone to this corral,
to the stable. I want someonethat can be a game breaker.
I want someone that if ken Walkeris out, I can put in there
and can flip the field. Sothat would be the guy. I don't
think it's going to be a DylanJohnson. I think there's going to be
another team that is going to valuesomeone that can get the three to five
yards. I don't think we're goingto see them reach for Marshawn Lloyd out

(01:08:53):
of USC, who I think isgoing to end up going pretty high.
I think it's going to be ahome run hitter because they know that they've
got two really solid guys on theirroster already. Okay, last thing that
we're going to do every episode onthis show is we're going to make a
prediction for the Seahawks at whatever draftposition that happened to be each week,

(01:09:15):
because we're going to see some shuffling. But right now they're sixteen. Okay,
who do you want the Seahawks totake at sixteen this year? As
we sit right now, Well,as we said, I'm going to go
make my prediction, and it's it'sthe I'm trading. So hopefully that's within
the rules of Whitewater drafting that Ican make a trade, because I don't
think there's any doubt they're going totrade at this point. I don't think

(01:09:40):
they're in the quarterback market like theywere pre like we were at least contemplating
pre Sam Howell trade, so Ithink that they And then you also gave
up a third round pick for SamHowl so I don't think there's any way
John Schneider's waiting from sixteenth to eightyfifth to pick. So I'm going to
go ahead and I'm going to makea trade completely out of the first round.

(01:10:01):
I'm going to trade for the WashingtonCommander's two picks. I believe they
are. Oh man, I shouldhave wrote written this down. I think
they are like thirty seven and fortytwo, and the draft value, the
draft value chart comes out where theSeahawks are a little bit ahead on that.
So I'm going to trade for twofirst round the two second round selections

(01:10:23):
for my first rounder because I needan interior offensive lineman to start right away,
and I need an interior inside linebackerto start right away. So I'm
going to give you two picks.I'm gonna go ahead and make a prediction
for two bags. I mean,this is bold, this is outlandish.
You don't get this on just yourrun in the mill, you know,
come on, Johnny, Johnny SafetyPin kind of podcast here. I mean,

(01:10:45):
we're bringing out all the objects.So I'm going to trade out.
I'm going to get those two picksfrom the Commanders. I'm going to take
Graham Barton, I hope you lastthat long, the interior offensive lineman out
of Duke. And then I'm goingto take Peyton Wilson, the North Caroline
a state linebacker who was the bestlinebacker in college football this past year,
even though he doesn't project quite aswell as others. I think these are

(01:11:09):
just two positions where if you're goodat it, you're good at it.
And so those are my two picksas of this date, the first podcast
that we're ever going to do.That's my prediction. They're moving down into
the second round. They're getting twoguys, and they're going to get two
starters in Barton and Wilson in thesecond round of the draft. For us

(01:11:30):
to mull over until opening day,all right. I like that, and
I think there's a lot of fansthat are going to be on board with
that. I, however, havea little bit more conviction in the talent
that I think is going to beavailable at sixteen. I think it's going
to be too hard to pass up. To me, the two biggest positions
of need in terms of not onlywhat Seattle wants to have on the roster,

(01:11:56):
but also in terms of the valuegap that exists between what you're paying
the number sixteen pick and what aplayer in his second contract would be worth
at that position. I think there'stwo guys. I think is Byron Murphy,
the defensive tackle out of Texas,which was the number one focus for
you dub in their semifinal matchup againstLonghorns. And I think Troy Fatanu from

(01:12:23):
you Dub, who is the offensivetackle but he was the best offensive linement
at the combine. He is mypick. I think Murphy's going to be
gone. I think that if Fotanuis there at sixteen, I think the
drop off after him. To me, there are sixteen bona fide first round
picks in this draft and it stopsat Fatanu, and he is going to

(01:12:47):
be there, I believe, becausethere are so many good tackles in this
draft. He does a couple ofthings. He gives you protection if Abe
Lucas's knee injury is as bad asI think Seahawks fans fear it might be,
and that might have been signaled bythe acquisition or reacquisition George Fant.
But the way that he moved,I'm one of those Sikos that's watching the

(01:13:13):
offensive line drills at the combine.I did like complete degenerate status, and
nobody at that combine moved the waythat he did. And that tells me
that he can play guard and centerif you need him to. And then
if and when the time comes thatyou need to tackle, and it will
come, there are not enough offensivelinemen in this league. He's going to

(01:13:36):
be the guy. And I thinkthat we can't forget who the offensive coordinator
for the Seahawks is it's Ryan Grubb. He's going to know how to use
him. He's going to trust himday one. Troy Fatanu is my pick
for the Seahawks in the first round. All right, well, we'll lock
it in. Uh. We have, of course, weeks to change our

(01:13:57):
minds on this, but we lockit in for right now. And you
know, Mike, write down,you know you're going to budget on this.
I mean, you sound pretty lockedin on this one. I don't
know if you'll change between now anddraft day. You know what, I'm
open to it. One of oneof the things I'm big on is my
opinions will change with new information ifthat new information necess states to change.

(01:14:18):
But right now is Troy Fotanu,and I wouldn't be surprised. He's still
my guy on the last show thatwe do before this draft. Excellent stuff,
man, all right, love itall right, y'all. That's going
to do it for the first editionof Whitewater Drafting. Couldn't be happier to
have Chuck on board with this.And as always, you can find Mike,

(01:14:41):
Chuck and I on social media.I am on Twitter at at Jackson
Bevans. That's j A. C. S O N. Remember that no
K is okay when spelling my name. Chuck is at Chuck Powell kJ R.
Mike is at Mike Barwin, andthe show itself is at Cigar Thoughts.
You can find full video episodes onour YouTube channel at Cigar Thoughts and

(01:15:02):
find the rest of our socials CigarThoughts NFL dot com. And listen to
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(01:17:14):
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