Episode 5

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
The NFL Draft is next week,which means we're in the home stretch of
rumor season. Chuck and I breakdown the latest happenings around the NFL,
examine this year's defensive backs class,and react to the latest three round mock
from mel Kiper and Field Yates.Let's light him up. I'm Jackson Bevans

(00:31):
and I'm Chuck Powell, and thisis Whitewater Drafting. Welcome back to Whitewater
Drafting. I am Jackson Bevans andI am joined once again by my friend
and fellow degenerate, Chuck Powell ofKJAR. Chuck, how are you.
It's feeling more and more every weeklike a term of endearment, the fellow

(00:52):
degenerate description. But I think it'sapt. Yeah it is. I'm going
to push back at all. Asa matter of fact, I'm going to
embrace it like a warm friend.You're a slime ball when it comes to
the draft. I love it.Yeah, yeah, uh yeah, I
think about this. I don't evenknow what it is about this stuff,
but it caught my attention early onin my life, and uh, I
really can't get enough of it.I'm gonna be honest now, I'm doing

(01:15):
a podcast. For goodness sake,I invented a holiday. Now I'm doing
a podcast. I mean, yeah, it's kind of taking hold, taking
grip. Hey man, even sawRobert Griffin third had a big old Christmas
tree behind him talking about the draft. Yeah, man, he saw that,
right. What else is happy?Right, he's listening, he's listening
to he had he was on anNFL draft show and he had a Christmas

(01:38):
tree in the background. He playedit off as if oh, no,
no, no, no, no, no no, we're just we're moving,
like, well, who moves withan upright Christmas tree in the corner
of their house? And why ofall the places in your big house would
you put a Christmas tree and haveit in the background of you being on
a zoom call or whatever. That'syour that's right there now. I think

(02:00):
he is celebrating, he's celebrating thebirth of Jesus. Draft and uh it
is, you know, I mean, it's the Gospel is spreading. Yeah,
there's no other explanation. He hada Christmas tree behind him during an
NFL draft show. RG three isa huge draft miss nut, and it's

(02:22):
not don't be embarrassed. Just letit shine speak for yourself. Yeah,
well, look, there is alot to get to as we are getting
so close to this draft, man, we're just over a week away.
And before we get into it,I want to remind everyone listening that White
Water Drafting is proud to be sponsorednot only by Seattle Cigar Concierge, but

(02:42):
Balvenny Single Malt Scotch Whiskey as well. These are two of my very favorite
companies out there. And for thoselistening, we've got some very fun news
to share at the end of theshow. But first, the last few
years, man, we've seen somemonumental trades at the top of the draft
in the weeks leading up to thebig event, whether it was the Panthers
movie up to number one last year, the forty nine ers a couple years
earlier trading three first to get upto number three. But for all the

(03:06):
smoke surrounding a similar move this year, and there has been a lot of
smoke, we have yet to seeit. So, Chuck, tell me,
do you think that we'll see ateam jump in the top five before
the draft starts, or a team'sgoing to wait and see how things play
out during Round one? I do, But again, you're talking to one
of the individuals that is going tostick to his guns, even though the

(03:27):
mocks seem to be drifting away fromthis as a possibility. I think you're
looking at six quarterbacks taken in thefirst thirteen picks here in this upcoming draft.
So I think that that begins withone of those teams, like the
top three, I think are alltaking quarterbacks, even though the Patriots are

(03:49):
trying to throw some smoke out therethat they might want to move down here
this last week. But I thinkthey're all taking quarterbacks. And then you've
got that gauntlet that exists from Iwould even start at number ten with the
New York Jets. I can't imaginethey think Aaron Rodgers is going to be
around. I don't think they canplan for Aaron Rodgers beyond one or two

(04:10):
years. So him at ten,the Vikings certainly at eleven, Denver at
twelve, whose quarterback right now isJarrett Stidham, Raiders thirteen, whose quarterback
right now is Gardner Minshew or AdenMcConnell. And even New Orleans at fourteen.
I can't imagine that Derek Carr issomebody there fantasizing about being their starting
quarterback beyond this year. So thatgauntlet of teams seem prime without quarterbacks to

(04:34):
start the season with to move intothe top ten, and I think maybe
as high as the top five.And then Jackson. If you throw the
Giants in there, because the Giants'interest in McCarthy is not going away despite
the fact that they have Drew Lockeand Daniel Jones, then you've got another
team that I think would or shouldbe interested in a quarterback in this draft.

(04:57):
You know, you mentioned a coupleof teams there that we haven't talked
a lot about, and one ofthem is someone that I've been talking a
lot about, dark horse trade upcandidate, and that's New Orleans Saints.
Now, look, they locked themselvesinto Derek Carr. Derek Carr ain't going
anywhere this year and probably not nextyear either, just because of the way
they structure that contract. And like, look, Derek Carr, he's gonna

(05:21):
be league average quarterback. But youknow, if you're the Saints, at
some point, you got to clearthat money off the books and you got
to get cheaper and younger at quarterback. And I am not ruling them out
moving up for a quarterback they mayhave to take on and Russell Wilson like
a strategy of just eating a tonof money to cut Derek Carr, but

(05:45):
that's a pretty good roster and they'regoing to have to get younger at quarterback.
I see them more as you know, maybe a Spencer Ratler type in
on day two, but I'm notwriting them off. And honestly, the
Giants look, man, that isa city, that is a fan base,
that is a team crying out fora franchise quarterback. They've given Daniel

(06:06):
Jones every chance to be that,and he's had some bright spots. But
I don't know if you guys sawthe clip that was going around Twitter,
Brian Dabble with his first you know, meet players meeting and Daniel Jones's in
the front row looking like he wouldrather be anywhere else. I mean,

(06:26):
just totally slumped down in his chairjust like this. Everybody else is,
you know, leaning forward listening tohim, so you know, you gotta
want I don't know how much toread into it. Maybe it was just
a picture taking at the wrong time, but yeah, you know, he's
clearly not the long term future,and I would not rule them out taking
a guy in the first round andtossing their fans some red meat as well.

(06:49):
Well. I think that once upona time, and not that long
ago, once you committed that muchfinancially to a player, you kind of
lived with it. I think weseen just recently with Russell and Denver,
but also going back to things likeJosh Rosen being taken in the top ten,
the Cardinals having a chance to moveon from him and taking it what

(07:13):
one year later, two years later. Yep, we're seeing teams now say
hey, I mean, we caneither live with a mistake or we can
admit the mistake and improve the veryimportant position right away. And I think
the mode that's the mode the Giants. And there are a lot of people
in New York, apparently Tiki Barberbeing one of them, that thinks it's

(07:34):
outlandish that the Giants would be interestedin a quarterback in this draft and that
that needs to stop. But PeterSchrager, who works for NFL Network,
recently came out with his mock draftand he has the Giants jumping from six
to four to the Arizona Cardinals.So keeping the Cardinals there in the top

(07:55):
six to get one of those bigtime receivers, but also giving them the
opportunity to take a JJ McCarthy atnumber four and start thinking about their future
at that position, or not startthinking about it, but start activating their
future at that position. So itcould be that. I mean, Minnesota
to me seems like the most logicalteam. I don't think that they traded

(08:16):
into the first round at twenty threeto sit with those two picks. They
seem like the most logical. Butthis is the risk that you run.
If you sit there and wait andwait and wait and try to whittle down
teams to try to get into thetop twenty five, you risk that somebody
jumps ahead of you. And ifthe Giants make that move, I mean,
maybe the Vikings have six quarterbacks thatthey'd love to have in this draft,

(08:39):
but odds are they probably have four, and you run the risk of
somebody moving into that fourth spot.Quarterbacks coming off the board one, two,
three, four, and now you'renot going to get your quarterback.
Your quarterback is now Sam Darnold.Congratulations. I mean, that's that's the
thing. I mean, I havelong been championing in five, I'm the

(09:00):
Vikings. I'm trusting that one ofthose guys. Probably Michael Pennox is going
to be there at eleven. Andfor me, again, I got no
issue with an NFL team liking JJMcCarthy more than Michael Pennox. I think
there's a lot of really defensible reasonsto believe that. I just don't think
that Delta is two first round picks, you know, But that's how I

(09:22):
feel. Now. You mentioned ateam that I think is worth us expending
some oxygen on, specifically because they'rein the Seahawks Division. The Cardinal has
been a laughingstock for the last fewyears, but they got something cooking right
now and they are absolutely in thecatbird seed. I mean a year ago,
there was so much noise and listenersas cigar thoughts. Know that I

(09:45):
never bought it because I think KylerMurray is a very good quarterback. There
is talk that Kyler Murray's going tobe out of here and they're going to
be taking a quarterback in this draft. And then Kyler came back from his
injury was excellent down the stretch withno receivers to throw to put that conversation
completely to bed. And as aresult, they are absolutely in the pilot's

(10:05):
seat of this draft because it isso obvious that the top three teams have
a quarterback need. And then theemergence of JJ McCarthy, the steam around
Michael Pennix has put so much morevalue on the number four pick, and
the Chargers is in a very similarposition. Number five. You already have
your quarterback, and so you stickand take the generational Marvin Harrison Junior to

(10:31):
bear with Kyler Murray or do youtrade back for another hall of picks?
They already have what six picks inthe first ninety So, like you know,
as Seahawks fans, we've been talkingabout how do you get past the
rams, how do you get pastthe forty nine ers? That's still very
prevalent, But like, don't writeoff what the Cardinals are going to be
doing in the next two three years. Yeah, well that's what they've been

(10:52):
very quietly doing a great job inthe draft and compiling some draft capital,
right, But you still at somepoint you kind of got to put your
foot, if you know, plantyour foot and stop just accumulating draft capital.
You have to start getting pieces tobuild a winning team going forward.

(11:16):
I think that that's what they needto start doing in this draft. But
that's why the Giants trade up tothem where it's only two spots seem so
intriguing because you can still I meanmaybe you maybe you forfeit Harrison, but
you still get a neighbors or ina doon, say at number six,
and then you still are adding draftcapitals. They're in such a beautiful spot,
man, Yeah, and a goodspot. And I think the Chargers

(11:39):
are obvious to move out of five. But you know, again, you
know, just because there are sixguys being discussed at quarterback that could be
first rounders, doesn't mean that allthirty two teams or the or the ten
that might have some quarterback needs theymight not. Uh, they're not going
to have all six of them valuedas face of the franchise future guys.

(12:03):
You know. So you don't knowif if if by moving up to in
front of number four, if nowsuddenly the Chargers position, you know,
great position to really add some draftcapital at number five, that starts to
come into question a little bit.But the Vikings and the Raiders and the

(12:26):
Broncos, all their quarterback needs stillremain if that, if that happens,
So, I mean, this isthe blast of it. This is the
intrigue of it all. I mean, and this, this and the moving
pieces. It's just it ain't checkers. This is the most interesting top ten
of a draft that I can remembersince I started paying close attention, which

(12:46):
I don't know twelve thirteen years.This top ten feels the most fungible.
It feels like there's a myriad ofdirections that teams can take that aren't necessarily
open to them most years. Andit has to do number one with just
how deep the top of this quarterbackclass is in the eyes of the NFL

(13:07):
from everything that we're hearing. Andone of the teams that is going to
be making a quarterback decision in thisdraft, obviously is the Washington Commanders at
number two. And it came outtoday that they are bringing in four quarterbacks,
you know, for their top thirtypre draft visits. They're going to
group date them. They are bringingin Jayden Daniels, Drake May, Michael

(13:28):
Pennox, and JJ McCarthy all atonce and check out on a how you
feel about this? I love it. I love this. Put all four
of these dudes in the same room, competing for the same spot. In
this interview process, you're just goingto see some things, for better or
worse, You're going to see somethings that aren't going to be the same
as these one on one type ofinterviews that these guys rehearse for and trained

(13:54):
for. Man, I would justlove to get a behind the scenes on
that. Yeah, you are theygetting roses at the end of the first
round of dates and then the onegets eliminated, and then on the on
draft night, the two will bestanding there and Jesse Palmer's hired as the
quarterbacks coach. That would be perfect, That would be perfect. Former Bachelor

(14:20):
himself Cliff Kingsbury comes to one ofthem with the rose between his teeth and
then hands it through them on draftday and we've got our pick for the
commanders. It's interesting. I mean, I don't know how they're going to
conduct it, but they are.They trying to get them all together so
that they can see which guy emergesas the alpha male because the thing the
quarterback evaluation is there. I mean, all the tape is there to watch

(14:43):
this. That's the thing for me, Like, I want to see who
the alpha of these guys is goingto be, because you're not in this
conversation as a top two pick ifyou're not already an alpha. I mean,
these guys have been the leaders oflocker rooms of competitive Division one football
teams. Those locker rooms already filledwith one hundred alphas. And now if

(15:05):
you're going to be the face ofthe franchise in the NFL, you need
to be able to command that lockerroom as well. That's the thing I
would pay most attention to, becauseI've done my due diligence watching the tape,
and I've had my interviews with theircoaches and all of these things.
I've got opinions on these guys.Throw them in a room, see how
they react. Yeah, yeah,yeah, Let them have a sleepover.
Put monitors in there, you know, put a camera inside the Teddy Bear's

(15:28):
eyes, you know, like theydo in the movies, and see see
who gets the big pillow man.How much would you how much would you
pay for that footage? Right?Just that hour of watching those four quarterbacks.
And it also, again, I'mdriving home from work, and this
is the fun We're inside two weeks, right, And so it's not just
those players sort of competing if youwill, for draft you know, priority,

(15:54):
but even the mockers and the NFLinsiders. I listened to Colin kwher
this morning on the drive home,and he's telling his audience that Jade Daniels
has already been decided. He's thenumber two pick. Schefter was Schefter was
insinuating the same today. Yeah,but then the story becomes, well,
then, but you're still going togo through this four day bachelor slumber party,

(16:18):
alpha male charad that you've you've decidedto host. So I mean,
you never know, you don't knowwhat to believe, and and some people
can roll their eyes at it,but I think it's the beauty of it
because it gives all of us footballfans, all of us junkies, the
platform to have a conversation about whatwe believe, what we buy, what
makes sense to us individually, andthat's the fun of draft miss Yeah,

(16:41):
yeah, absolutely, here's the waythat I would approach it. And this
kind of last thing on the quarterbacksis that, like, let's say Jaden
Daniels is who the commanders are,assuming that they're taking this is like final
boss level, right, Like that'sthis one last thing, and you keep
your mind open to someone's in thatand maybe Drake May is just the pied

(17:03):
piper in that group and you say, Okay, actually, this is my
leader of men. Because that's theintangible part that you have to figure out,
is can this guy lead these twentyfive year old millionaires right who have
always been the baddest dude in theroom. Are they gonna look to this
guy and say, Yep, that'smy quarterback, right the Terrell Owens postgame

(17:26):
press conference, that's my teammate,that's my quarterback. That's what you're looking
for. Well, I mean,if that's the case, then I think
Michael Penix. I mean, rightnow, there seems to be a great
divide between you know, Penix seemsto be rising on half of the boards
out there, and then there's stillthis feeling with the other half that he's

(17:47):
not even a first round draft selection. But if leadership does matter, I'm
not sure there's a better leader.I put Penix's leadership and his affect on
his teammates. I'd put that aboveCaleb Williams, even at the number one
selection overall. And so that's whyI tend to lean toward buying that he's

(18:07):
moving up the boards. But mygoodness, there are still a lot of
people out there, especially those workingat the NFL Network, Schrager, Bucky
Brooks, Charles Davis that don't evenhave him going in the first round at
this point. It's just hard forme to believe that there's as big a
gap as that group of people thinkthat there is between Jade and Daniels,

(18:29):
Drake May, JJ McCarthy and thenMichael Pennix. I just I can't buy
it, and I'll have to seeit to believe it. So Daniel Jeremi
still has Pennix at thirteen. Yeah, but I'm in that camp. I'm
in the camp of I think he'sin the same conversation with all of them
not named Caleb Williams. Now,I'm with you, man, And look,

(18:49):
we're we're going to take a lookat mel Kiper and Field Yates' latest
mock draft lately day. They havea very very interesting landing spot for Michael
Pennix, and we're gonna get tothat in a minute. But listen,
buddy, we got two shows leftbefore the draft, including this one,
and we've hit on just about everypositional group in this class. We're gonna

(19:11):
save my personal favorite one, thewide receivers, for next week, but
today we are looking at the defensivebacks, and this is a class that's
not only deep, but can seeas many as half a dozen members go
in the first round. Now,are any of them going in the top
ten? Not likely. Usually you'regoing to see the best defensive back in
a class go in the top tentwelve picks. That probably doesn't happen this

(19:33):
year. But the back half ofthe first round is going to be chalk
full of these dudes. And Imean, look, we're going to lump
cornerbacks and safeties together. You startat corner You've got the two guys out
of Alabama. You got Terry andArnold and kool Aid McKinstry. Then out
of Toledo, you have my favoriteentire defensive back or defensive player in this
entire draft in Quinjon Mitchell. LikeI said, he's out of Toledo.

(19:55):
You got Cooper de John from Iowawho just took a visit with the Seahawks,
Nate Wiggins out of Clemson, KamariLaster, who I really really like
out of Georgia. He's gonna makesomeone super happy on Day two. The
safety, he's got Kayln Bullock fromUSC, Tyler Nuban from Minnesota, Javon
Bullard from Georgia, Cameron Kinchins fromMiami. Who's a dog when you look

(20:17):
at these dudes, who jumps outat you? And then specifically, do
you see Seattle using one of theirtop two picks on any of these guys?
I'll ask the second answer the secondquestion. First, No, I
mean, we won't know what MichaelMcDonald thinks of the secondary until the draft,
and we'll know at that point thepieces that they've assembled in this organization

(20:37):
prior to his arrival. I thinkeverybody that watched a Seahawks game this year
you recognizes what Devin Witherspoon is andshould be for this team going forward and
for years to come. So heseems to be safe. Rieke Wollan did
not have a great year this pastyear. So even though two years ago
you're thinking you are set at theone and then when they draft Witherspoon,

(21:02):
it's willing and Witherspoon forever, youknow, you might might have felt that
way, but he did not havea very good season. So maybe there's
a chance that they look to improve. But I think there's a better chance
that Mike McDonald says, Okay,let's see that guy who's the fastest person
here and is six foot four andwas a Rookie of the Year defensive Rookie

(21:22):
of the Year candidate just a coupleof years ago. So there's some something
to work with there. Give himto me, I'd like to see what
I could do with him in mydefense. So I just think that of
all the position groups, this isthe last one that I would spend much
draft capital on, and that includeswatching a couple of veteran safeties walk out

(21:45):
the door. I'll take my chanceswith love. Maybe I do get a
member of the secondary late in thedraft, but no, I'm not.
I'm not using anything on day numberone, or if they acquire something else
before before day number two, I'mnot gonna use anything day number two on
a defensive back. It's just notwhere they Seahawks need defensive line help,

(22:08):
linebacker help, offensive line help,tight end help, and even quarterback.
I can buy a going quarterback,but I'm not buying defensive back. Not
this year. Yeah. Look,something to keep in mind. A couple
of weeks ago, Friend of theShow Michael Sean Dugar and his mock draft
selection for the Athletic had the Seahawkstraining back with the Steelers to number twenty

(22:29):
and taking Cooper Degene out of Iowa, who just so happened to be in
Seattle yesterday visiting the team. Soyeah, yeah, And here's the thing.
I mean, it's to Chuck's point, and I'm really glad you brought
that up, Mike, because toChuck's point, they probably aren't doing that.
But it's a reminder that, like, it is a new era and

(22:51):
Mike McDonald is he's the scheme lord, he's the young hot you know,
Sean McVay of the defense in theNFL right now, and we don't know
what he prioritizes right now. Tous, we look at Devin Witherspoon and
Rieq Wollan and Trey Brown at cornerbackand say, yeah, we are set

(23:11):
like Seahawk's. That's a top fivecornerback unit, maybe higher. But we
don't know yet how Mike McDonald wantsto deploy these guys and whether the skill
sets that they have are the exactfit that he wants. So I'm reserving
judgment. I'm one hundred percent withChuck in that I would be really surprised

(23:33):
if they used a pick in thefirst three rounds on a defensive back.
But like man, I look atQuinyon Mitchell and I see Devin Witherspoon,
like I see a clone of DevinWitherspoon, and Mike McDonald might just say,
you know what, I see thisas a fulcrum position. I'm going
to free up one of these twoguys to be more of a switchblade and

(23:57):
get a second one. Right,one is good, two is better.
We don't know, so I won'tbe maybe as shocked as Chuck is if
they use a high pick on adefensive back, but if they do,
it will be a signal to methat this is an absolutely new era.
Yeah, well, talent is talent, I know, and believe me,

(24:18):
these guys go by their board andJohn Schneider tries to get us to believe
every year that he does not draftnecessarily for need. But let's face it,
this is the NFL draft. Youknow, you got two axes working
against one another. One of thoseis who do you like the most,
just without even thinking about position,and then the other is what are your

(24:41):
needs? So at some point thatdoes factor in. So if you're making
your pick at sixteen or moving downto thirty and making your selection or wherever
you would go late in the firstround. It's where those two axis collide.
I mean, that's your selection.You know, if the value of
a player is too much, eventhough your need's not that high, then
you could still take a cornerback ora safety at that spot. But and

(25:07):
this, let's face it, thisorganization, I mean, they have a
chance to be a playoff team thisupcoming year, but I don't think that
they're one piece away here. Soif you know, if they if they
feel that Cooper Dejene, for example, is the perfect you know, is
high on their board, and therestill is a little bit of a need

(25:29):
for the position here within the organization, I don't rule it out. It's
just not the direction that I wouldpredict them to go, Nor if they
ask me for my opinion, wouldit be the h the position I would
recommend that they go. Sure,And look, a lot of these personal
visits is about creating doubt in theminds of the people drafting behind you that

(25:53):
we might take this guy. Becausethere are a lot of teams picking in
the eight to ten pick behind Seattlethat have a very very obvious need at
cornerback. And if you can sellthe story that Seattle could take the guy
that you actually want here, youare increasing the likelihood, you're increasing the

(26:17):
number of options you have to tradeback. And if you're Seattle at sixteen
sixteen, just the closer we getto the draft, the tastier sixteen becomes
as needs from the teams behind youbecome more and more prevalent. You know,
we we're going to talk wide receiversnext week, and I cannot wait.

(26:37):
This is my favorite wide receiver classand like maybe ever, But all
of a sudden, you have theBuffalo Bills needing a wide receiver so badly
you can't have a quarterback that goodand not have anyone to throw to as
a true number one. And there'sa lot of talk about them trying to

(27:00):
get up into the teams to gettheir guy, and so you know,
it just shows that there are goingto be a lot of teams targeting that
sixteenth pick, and it is inSeattle's best interest to create as many believable
avenues for that pick as they can. But we would you agree, would
we all agree that even if theywent with their first pick at defensive back,

(27:25):
it's not at sixteen I don't meanthat it's an absolute trade down,
even if you were entertaining that andacquiring more selections. I mean, I
like Cooper dejen I like the Imean the Iowa Hawkey's defense was incredible this
year and he was a big partof it. He also is excellent punt
returner, so they've you know,improved their kick return potentially with Chenault in

(27:48):
this new kick return era, andmaybe that's going to be a priority for
John and Mike. We want tobe outstanding in specialties. We want to
be undoubtedly the best, and Ithink that he could fill a role there
still even with that added to hisportfolio. I don't think sixteen taking a
defensive back is even a possibility herefor the Seahawks. If they were to

(28:11):
take something in the defensive secondary,it's trading down for sure, and adding
some other draft capital so that youcan shore up another position. We agree
with that. Yeah, I wouldvery agree on that. Yeah, I
agree. I think, like Isaid, I'll be surprised, not shocked
if they take defensive back in thefirst three rounds of this draft, Okay,

(28:32):
but I would be shocked if theydid that at sixteen. With the
quality of player that is going tobe available to them at positions of need
at sixteen. It would be stunningfor me to see them aseshew those options
to take a corner or a safety. I don't think there's going to be
safeties in play at sixteen, Butif they do trade back, it does

(28:56):
bring in a Kaylin Bullock at atsafety. It does bring in a Cameron
Kinchins from Miami, who I thinkplays maybe the most of all the safeties
out there, the way that wesaw the safeties in Baltimore play last year.
If all of a sudden, you'removing back to twenty four, twenty
five, or let's say twenty eightwith the Bills, and now you've netted

(29:18):
a second round pick, I thinkthat that really opens up options with say
pick sixty again, if we're goingto use the Bills example here, you
know, if you trade back fromsixteen to twenty eight and you pick up
pick number sixty, now all ofa sudden, you're not jumping way outside
of you know, the perceived draftvalue if you want to take one of

(29:41):
these guys, because again, mostof the dudes on this defense don't have
a secure future beyond twenty twenty four. There are a lot of expiring contracts
on this defense coming up in thenext year or two. Yeah, and
you you know, the Bills doseem like a pretty likely dance partner.
I said this last week. Imean, it's not just as easy as

(30:03):
hey, we want to trade downwhat have we got out there? A
team has to be interested enough tothere's got to be somebody on the board
that they've got to come up towant to get to sacrifice some extra picks.
And Buffalo suddenly emerges as that afterthe Stefan Diggs trade, because their

(30:23):
sands a wide receiver one and awide receiver two, I'd argue, and
so for them, we can sithere and wait, I mean this is
being regarded as, you know,the best wide receiver class ever. Okay,
so I mean Marvin Harrison Junior isthe consensus top wide receiver. It

(30:47):
is unanimous that everybody feels the widereceiver group is outstanding and so but you
but that doesn't mean that there's aWR one or WR two ready to impact
immediately an NFL team, especially onethat feels it's in a super Bowl window.
So if you're the Buffalo Bills,do you really want to sit there
and wait for the guy to cometo you, or do you circle a

(31:11):
spot higher in the draft to makesure that one of those guys of Brian
Thomas out of LSU who might slipto that stage in the draft, that
you then make the aggressive push toget up there with Seattle and grab somebody
that you think is ready to playimmediately, impact the game immediately, and
can help you win playoff games immediately. So that's why they suddenly become an

(31:34):
interesting dance partner. Add to thatthat they have a second rounder, they
have two fourths, they have threefifths, and they have two sixth rounders.
So I mean that John Schneiders lickinghis chops at that so I can
trade you the sixteenth pick. Icome down to your spot at twenty eight,
I'll pick up your sixtieth overall inthe second round, and then I'll

(31:56):
either take a fourth or I canget two fifths potentially, and you know
how much he loves his fifths.So they seem to be suddenly emerging as
a really likely dance partner with theSeahawks if, in fact, and I
think that they should be interested inmoving down in this draft. Yeah,
and for me, you know,we talked about this last week. I'm

(32:17):
all for Seattle trading town as longas they're not trading out of their top
tier. Like, I don't wantthem to settle for taking a guy that
they don't have a first round gradeon. And to me, your chances
of getting a first round grade guyat twenty eight get lower, So I
need that trade conversation to be prettyhigh. Like, to me, one

(32:42):
guy with the first round grade isbetter than two guys with the second round
grade. That's just how I'm wired. I know there's a lot of people
out there who would feel differently,but if it were me, like,
if I'm going to trade out ofthat tier, I probably need more than
just pick sixty. And to yourpoint, the Bills have ammunition to add
on too that if they feel likethey need to. And look, it's

(33:05):
all hypothetical, right, Like,I'm not a huge mock draft guy,
but I am a huge specific mockdraft guy. And what I mean by
that is there is a trillion mockdrafts out there, and look, most
of it is engagement farming. Iget that, but there are mock drafts
from people who are super dialed into the NFL and to the actual decision
makers that I think are worth digginginto, and for the sake of the

(33:29):
conversation, it is good to havesomething tangible to work with. And in
that spirit, just the other day, mel Kiper Junior, the godfather of
draft coverage, teamed up with honestlyrising draft superstar Field Yates to release a
combo three round mock draft. AndI really want to dive into that with

(33:51):
you and just react to it asthough this happened really like, this is
how the NFL draft goes. So, Mike, I'm gonna hand it over
to you. I'm gonna like seethis. I'm gonna let you take us
through, uh a package of picksat a time. Chuck and I we're
going to react to it. Whydon't you start at the top. All
right, let's run through the firstfive picks here. Number one, you're

(34:12):
never gonna believe this. Caleb Williamsto the Bears. Number two. I
know it's crazy, right, Numbertwo. Jaden Daniels to the Washington Commanders.
Number three, Drake May to theNew England Patriots. Number four.
The Cardinals are sticking and picking MarvinHarrison Junior. And number five we have
our first trade here the Vikings jumpup and take JJ McCarthy with a fifth

(34:37):
overall pick. What do you guysthink. I think that makes a lot
of sense. Yeah, that feelspretty dial pick there. The two things
that I would say stand out is, man, has there been has it
been a bad week of rumors forDrake May? And I think a lot
of that started with Merril Hodge,who's you know? I mean, you

(34:58):
know, Lagermernn he's all he hasstrong opinions and he's pretty good at this.
But Meryl Hodge said that anybody thattakes Drake May with a high first
round pick is going to get firedin the next two years. That's how
lowly he thinks of Drake May.Merrill Hodge is infinitely more qualified than I
am. So like those listening,just know that I think that's crazy.

(35:22):
I think Drake May is the secondbest quarterback in this draft by like a
margin. Well great, And that'swhat this is because yes, you use
the word hypothetical earlier. I wouldcall it gloriously hypothetical. That's what this
entire month is about. So tome that maybe we're seeing maybe mel knows
a couple of things, and maybewe're seeing that that truly is just smoke

(35:44):
and that there's nothing really damaging thathas happened to Drake May's reputation. So
that kind of stood out to me. And then, of course the other
thing is the trade to number five, because that's the most logical to me.
Arizona just needs to say, Imean, they can play this game
and still get Aroma Dune's era Molikneighbors, but you didn't go through a

(36:06):
couple of rough years and do allof this good work to acquire all these
draft pieces. It's time to startstacking some really usable star players. And
to me, Marvin Harrison Junior justmakes way too much sense to them.
So you be the team that goesahead and takes the player and then leave

(36:28):
it to the Chargers, who makeinfinite sense to me to be moving down
in this draft. And to me, the Minnesota Vikings Raiders they put themselves
Broncos, they put themselves in aposition where they kind of have to come
out with a quarterback in this draft, So that marriage Chargers and Vikings seems

(36:49):
like a very obvious trade partner dancepartner on draft Day. Yeah, I
got a few thoughts on this man, on these first five picks, Caleb
Williams, stone Col I think usthe best quarterbacks and Andrew Luck. I
if I lose my job because Idrafted Kleb Williams number one overhaul whatever man
charge it to the game. Buthe's the guy. Jayden and Daniels to

(37:14):
Washington makes sense with Cliff Kingsbury,which I just don't get the appeal of
Cliff Kingsbury. I mean, thisis a guy who was like basically a
five hundred coach in the Big twelvewith Patrick Mahomes and then was like bad
and there's I know with Kyler Murray, but the offense put up some numbers.
It was unimaginative, but it wasspread out. Let your athletic quarterback

(37:37):
have more room to operate. Iunderstand the philosophy behind that. Jayden Daniels
fits that mold better than anyone besidesKala Williams in this draft. I see
the logic there. The tough thingis I think Drake may is the best,
second best quarterback in this draft.Like I said, New England's the
worst landing spot of all these placesat the top. And the way that

(38:00):
I look wrong on this is thatJJ McCarthy goes to a place with Kevin
O'Connell as the head coach, whoI think is exceptional at offensive end,
quarterback development, with Justin Jefferson,Jordan Addison, freakin' TJ. Hawkinson.
You got Aaron Jones brought in right, who is just like quarterback's best friend

(38:22):
at running back because he's I love, I love Aaron Jones. I think
Aaron Jones is underrated again, likeJJ McCarthy will probably look better as a
rookie in Minnesota than Drake May willat in New England because look who they're
throwing to, Look who's coaching them. But I do want to focus in

(38:44):
also on the Cardinals. The temptationfor their GM, who loves to wheel
and deal, to trade out offour is going to be high. But
look, man, the single mostunderrated wide receiver of my lifetime is Larry
Fitzgerald and Cardinals fans I got toassume, well, look, Chuck here,

(39:05):
you're from Phoenix area, you tellme. But like I gotta think
Larry Fitzgerald is like Cardinal number onewith a bullet in franchise history. Right,
you get a chance to potentially runthat back with a guy like Marvin
Harrison Junior. I don't think I'mtrading out of that pick. Yeah,
I'm gonna I'm gonna keep him aswell. But you know, they do
have the option, as we mentionedearlier, especially that Giants option at six,

(39:28):
if they can just move down acouple spots, they can get a
neighbors or a dune. Say they'reat number six, and then again keep
adding to their you know, draftpackage here for now and into the future.
But that makes the most sense.But I mean, that's that's just
you know, they always say that'swhere the draft starts. I mean,
that fourth fifth pick is just everythingfor the rest of the draft, because

(39:52):
you know, I kind of comparedthis morning on the air those teams from
ten to fourteen that might have quarterbackneed. It's one thing to put yourself
in a position of luxury, likethe Kansas City Chiefs were when they traded
up to get Patrick Mahomes. Theyhad a quarterback, but they decided,
we get a better one. We'redrafting at the end of the first round.

(40:13):
Let's get all the way up tonumber ten and get who we think
is the best quarterback in this entiredraft. That's one thing that's just somebody
that gambles for fun. The Vikings, the Raiders, the Broncos, those
are teams that are they're gambling topay their mortgage. You who took that
comparison out of my mouth right there? That's exactly what this is. And

(40:37):
like the Chiefs, I think aboutit with who I think is the best
run organization in the NFL right now, The Philadelphia Eagles. Same thing.
Like they put themselves in position lastyear to trade up and take a luxury
pick with Jorge Davis, right so, like I mean, you've just you've
got these or Jalen Carter, pardonme, And so it's like Jalen Carter

(40:59):
removed the offield stuff I think waskind of consensus best player in the draft
last year. They got him atnine, Like luxury pick. Let's traight
up and get that guy you mentionedthe Giants' options. I feel like that
is a great segue into this nextbundle of picks. Mike, what you
got at number six? The Giantstake Malik Neighbors wide receiver out of LSU

(41:19):
who's battling for wide receiver two withRoma Dounza, who, surprise, surprise,
we will be naming quite soon Numberseven, the Tennessee Titans take Joe
alt offensive tackle out of Notre Dame. Number eight, the Atlanta Falcons take
Dallas Turner edge out of Alabama andthe only defensive player taken in the top
ten of this draft. Chicago Bearsat nine take the aforementioned a Doonza wide

(41:40):
receiver out of Washington, and atten, the New York Jets take Troy
Fautanu tackle and guard out of Washington, who's been quite the popular pick for
the Seahawks. At sixteen. Infact, we had to work hard.
Not that this was the deciding factorin going I mean, we're just going
to go with the kaiper yatest whenit gets when it gets presented, but

(42:02):
like Mike and I were working hardto find a mock draft that did not
have the Seahawks taking Troy Fatana,which you know, credit to your boy,
who I've been saying since day one, I think Seattle should take.
But now we got the Jets takingthem here and look, I'm gonna lead
off on this bundle of picks here. Love love love getting Melik neighbors for

(42:23):
New York Giants. You play outthis reality one hundred times, I would
say thirty to forty of those realities. Milik Neighbors is the best wide receiver
that comes out of this draft.I think he's that good. I really,
really, really do the guys.The combination of the release package with
the speed. His top five percentoutcome is Tyreek Hill, right, I'm

(42:47):
talking Larry Fitzgerald for Marvin Harrison.I think in the right situation, Milak
Neighbors has Tyreek Hill potential. Butbeyond that, you know, Joe All
is probably outside of Kileb Williams toChicago. The most consistently mocked pick is
Tennessee taking Joe Alt. I'm notwriting off the Chargers and Jim harbaughd just

(43:09):
taking him at five and sending theTitans spinning at seven, But in this
mock you know they're taking him.That's absolutely the right pick for Tennessee.
The Falcons taking their pass rusher ofchoice, in this case, Dallas Turner
out of Alabama, who most peopleyou know are considering right now the best

(43:30):
pass rusher in this draft. Thatmakes sense. The Falcons lowest sack rate
in the NFL over the last threeyears, they need that. The Chicago
Bears taking Roma Donza at number nine. Has a number one overall pick,
if this were to happen, hasa number one overall pick ever settled in
to a position as cushy as CalebWilliams would, with DJ Moore, Keenan

(43:54):
Allen, Roma, Donza Cole Cometas his top four pass catchers, and
then you just add DeAndre Swift toa backfield with Roshawn Johnson and Khalil Herbert,
like we could see Caleb Williams havea rookie season for the Ages.
If this goes down, well,I think he's already got a good as
you you listed, a really goodcore. That's why I think there they've

(44:16):
suddenly kind of emerged as this candidateto move down at this stage from number
nine. Some other observations from thatAt number eight, Dallas Turner seems to
be he's being routinely mocked eight tothe Atlanta Falcons, and then number ten.
Recently we're seeing nothing but rock Powersto the New York Jets at Yeah,

(44:40):
a lot of noise there. Sothis is the first mock that I've
actually, you know, read oroverheard that doesn't have Bowers going to the
Jets, which made me think that, you know, somebody knows something,
and everybody knows that person knows somethingbecause you know where within two weeks,
this is the time where all themocks looking the same. Well, ya
even mentioned Bowers by name in hisrationale for adding Potanu to the Jets.

(45:07):
Yeah, there he'said, he thoughtabout it. Yeah, but this is
where they all start to kind oflook the same because they it's now about
collecting information. They've done all thefilm research, They've watched every game that
these guys have played. I meantalking about the best mock draft guys out
there, and they and there's areason they all start looking the same at
this time in the process. It'sbecause they know who knows information. So

(45:32):
Bowers to the Jets I've been seeingjust routinely. And then just one other
quick thought on alt at number seventhat's been mocked for weeks now, and
I mentioned this on Whitewater Drafting acouple of weeks ago. Don't be surprised.
I mean Brian Callahan's new head coachthere, he was with the Cincinnati
Bengals. He was there when theBengals had a very similar decision at number

(45:54):
seven. What's the best way tohelp our new young quarterback is that to
get an offensive lineman to protect him, or is that to get a stud
wide receiver for him to throw to? And the Bengals went with the wide
receiver, Jamar Chase, and Idon't think they regret that. So with
that, that was the big meme, right was Chase Penn Seoel with that?

(46:16):
And that got a lot of seamafter that Super Bowl when Bro got
got harassed and Jamar Chase had absolutelytoasted Jalen Ramsey on what would have likely
been the Super Bowl winning touchdown pass. Uh had Bro not gobbled up by

(46:37):
Earn Donald there, So yeah,and still and he's he's still being harassed,
and so I think there's still anargument that they should have gone with
Penn Sool there at number three,but they went with Jamar Chase, and
I think that it has worked out. So I don't think it's a layup
that it's all there could be ano, let's get the receiver, Let's
get a doomsday and let's add himto Hopkins and to Ridley here at number

(46:57):
seven. At number eleven, theChargers have if you're trading down, take
offensive tackle JC lay them out ofAlabama. Number twelve, the Denver Broncos
take Brock Bauers, tight end outof Georgia. Thirteen we have our first
dB. The Raiders take Quinyon Mitchellout of Toledo, guyin, the Saints
take Olufashanu offensive tackle out of PennState, and fifteen our second corner off

(47:20):
the board, Terry and Arnold outof Alabama goes to Indy. Okay,
So I love all of these picks. I'm a little bit surprised by j
C. Latham over Fashanu at tacklefor you know, for the charters.
But we know what Jim Harbaugh wantsto do, and we know Jim Harbaugh's

(47:42):
track record with offensive linemen both ofthe collegiate and the NFL level. If
he feels like Latham is the guy, I mean, yeah, who am
I to say he's wrong there.It's a little surprising the Broncos taking brock
Bowers. Not because brock Bowers isn'tawesome and worthy of the pick. I
mean, honestly, from pick fiveon, I'm not going to be surprised

(48:07):
where brock Bowers goes. It's justthey have Greg Dulcig who is before Bowers,
he was the most productive collegiate tightend the college football is seen in
between Kyle Pitts and Brock Bowers.For them to double up right there,
there's a lot of people mocking Bowersto the Broncos. It would be a

(48:29):
little bit surprising, but they Imean, the Broncos are a mess man.
They got no draft capitol after thispick. They got a million holes
to fill. They got no quarterback. That's the one that's really really interesting
to me. I would be surprisedthat the Broncos didn't take a quarterback at
twelve. Well, I'll just saythis. I mean, if you know
you're lost right now, and youbelieve Sean Payton can rebuild this thing,

(48:52):
if you have the right people andyou make the right decisions. This is
not major league baseball. It takesthree to five years to rebuild a Major
league baseball takes two in the NationalFootball League if you do it the right
way. And so if you justkind of acknowledge that and you just sit
there at number twelve and say,hey, look, I'm just it's you're
in a great luxury position to justdraft your favorite player at that point in

(49:14):
the draft where we're not gonna worryabout drafting for need because we are.
We are far more than one playeraway from turning this thing back around.
And then if we want a quarterback, you know, we're probably going to
have a bad season this year.We'll probably be in a better position next
year to take a quarterback higher inthe draft. So I wouldn't have a
problem with the Denver Broncos making thatdecision. I just don't know if you

(49:36):
know Sean Payton's ego is going toallow him to make that decision. If
you want to win now, thenI think you've got to upgrade your quarterback
position. As for the Chargers,that's the other thing that stood out to
me. This is why they makeso much sense to trade down because if
they end up with eleven and twentythree, that nobody, with the exception
of maybe the Bills, had aworse cap situation heading into the offseason.

(50:00):
And it cost them Keenan Allen,it cost them Mike Williams, it cost
them quite a bit from their team, and you know Jim Harball wants to
win right away. So they needa wide receiver badly in this draft and
high in this draft, and theyneed offensive line help because I know Jim
Harball watching Chargers film is like,why did you allow my quarterback to get

(50:22):
nearly murdered every single week? Andso I think that they absolutely are the
team that makes the most sense tomove down. And I think getting the
offensive lineman first makes sense considering howdeep the wide receiver group is, and
then they go wide receiver at twentythree with the picks they got from Minnesota

(50:44):
in the proposed trade. So tome, I think that scenario makes way
too much sense between now and draftday. Well, and that's the beauty
of having such a deep top coupleof tiers at wide receiver is if you
do the trade, and we didn't. We kind of glossed over the specifics

(51:05):
of the trade at number five,but in this mock they got number eleven
and number twenty three and at twentyfive first, And to me, like,
yeah, I'm doing that ten timesout of ten. I don't think
Minnesota should make that trade. Ijust don't. But if they do it
and a lot of people think thatthey will, then yeah, this is
how you play it. You takeyour favorite offensive lineman at eleven knowing that

(51:28):
you're going to have good receivers waitingfor you at twenty three. All right,
we are through the first fifteen picksof this mock draft. That puts
the Seattle Seahawks on the clock.Mike, take it away, a pick
that nobody has thought to make sofar in any mock draft. The Seahawks
at sixteen selects Byron Murphy, defensivetackle out of Texas. No, how
happy that would make me? Yeah? Yeah. Seventeen, the Jacksonville Jaguars

(51:52):
take Brian Thomas, junior wide receiverat LSU. Eighteen, the Bengals take
Talifuangat out of Oregon State. Atnineteen, the Rams take Layatsu Latu pass
rusher out of UCLA, And attwenty, the Pittsburgh Steelers take one of
Chuck's favorites, Graham Barton, intoyour O lineman out of Duke. Okay,

(52:14):
all right, Chuck, So justin a vacuum, how do you
feel about the Seahawks sticking and pickingwith Byron Murphy at sixteen and then zooming
out piggybacking on that. How doyou feel about them doing it seeing some
of these other guys that go inthe four picks after him. Well,
Murphy, as I said a coupleof weeks ago, is my favorite defensive

(52:37):
player in this draft, So I'mcertainly not going to be angry if this
is the scenario that unfolds. Myquestion is, how does he fit in
Mike McDonald's scheme. And I don'tknow that until we actually state start seeing
football games with Byron Murphy inn aSeahawk uniform. But something tells me he
knows how to make it work.So if he takes if they take them

(53:01):
take him, and organizationally, thenI think what they see as a difference
maker, and I wouldn't be surprisedif he is at the next level.
So if that's the way that thedraft unfolds, they take Murphy, I
would applaud that selection. But Istill think they're going to move down.

(53:22):
I still think even if Murphy's onthe board, I don't see John Schneider
waiting until pick eighty one to makehis second pick in this draft. So
even if Murphy's there, I thinkJohn Schneider moves down in the deal.
Yeah. I mean, look,even though Fatanu is my guy and he's
gone in this mock. Yeah,I love the Byron Murphy pick. I

(53:44):
mean, y'all who've been listening,No, I love the Byron Murphy pick.
Chuck obviously loves the pick. There'sa few other guys though, Like,
I mean, they could have takenFuaga there. I would have been
stoked. They could have taken Lachuthere. I would have been stoked,
even Barton, not not at sixteen. But if you wanted to trade back
with the Pittsburgh and make that pick, like you know, I'd be cool

(54:06):
with that. But if Seattle leavesDay one of this draft with nothing but
Byron Murphy to show for it,I'm good with it. I'll tell you
the bit of that. Yeah,yeah, And I'll tell you the pick
I really love here is Brian Thomasto the Jaguars. Man. I just
with the absence of Calvin Ridley,he just seems like the perfect replacement there.
I think that's going to have BrianThomas steaming up fantasy draft boards if

(54:31):
he goes to Trevor Lawrence. Beforewe move on, quick question for you
guys. Yeah, so say theSeahawks do trade down into the early twenties.
In this draft that Kyper and Yateshad put together, the only two
dbs off the board are Quinnion Mitchelland Terry and Arnold. So if you're
sitting there at somewhere between twenty andtwenty two, and you have to select

(54:54):
a dB, your favorite dB thatyou have to take. Who are you
selecting? Mitchell off the board?And McDonald is saying you have to take
a defensive back here, I mighttake kool Aid mckin street just because of
his name. Yeah, because it'sthe best corner name. I'm gonna say,

(55:15):
because he's like the most prototypical cornerbackin the draft. No, but
also his name is awesome. It'sthe best cornerback name in the drafts and
seven up Jones the decatur stays innineteen oh five. I think it's probably
Degene there because of the versatility Ido kind of. I mean, if

(55:37):
they're going to come away with somebody, I think I go with him.
But as you will see him asa safety at the next level, and
fine, that's fine too. Ilike that Versus needs more than corner.
I mean, he could play slotcorner. He could, he could probably
play outside corner. I know hecan. He can probably move to safety,
and as I mentioned earlier, Ithink he's also a hell of a

(55:57):
punt returner. So that versatility addedto the mix seems like the most fascinating
addition that the Seahawks could make.I mean, we can spend a lot
of time in season offseason trying tofigure out how this guy fits into this
defense. Yeah, that's true,all right, Mike, keep us moving,

(56:20):
okay. At twenty one, theMiami Dolphins take Jared Verse, defensive
end out of Florida State to getman. At twenty one, that's insane.
Twenty two, the Eagles take AmarusMims, offensive tackle out of Georgia.
Freaking Eagles. At twenty three,the Chargers, with their second pick
they acquired from the Minnesota Vikings,much to my chagrin, Jackson take Xavier
Worthy. Who did they take?Who did they take? Above? At

(56:45):
nin Mitchell, Mike can just sayit again. Twenty four the Cowboys take
Tyler Geiton, offensive tackle out ofOklahoma, and twenty five the Packers take
Cooper Dejene out of Iowa. Yeah, every one of these picks makes sense
to me. We're gonna dive intothe wide receivers in depth a lot next

(57:06):
week. We might spend more timeon a positional group next week than we
have this entire series. Mike andI have been texting constantly about who we
think is better out of Texas betweenXavier Worthy and ad and I Mitchell,
I'm a worthy guy. I feellike his fluidity between the slot and being

(57:28):
able to play on the outside isgoing to be exactly what Jim Harball wants.
That feels like the right pick.That's my favorite pick out of this
group. But man, the Dolphinsgetting Jared first at twenty one is crazy
because I think Jared Vers goes inthe top twelve in most drafts. And
then you just know the Eagles aregoing to turn Amarus Mims into a superstar

(57:49):
at tackle out of Georgia. He'slike the biggest frickin' offensive lineman to come
out in years. They're going tomake that happen. Man, this is
like a really logical batch of pick. We just had Rob rang On,
who's Fox Sports and he's kJ r'sdraft expert that we lean on. And
Rob has actually mocking Amarius Memes tothe Seahawks the idea that they do need

(58:15):
an offensive lineman, but he doesnot like drafting like a true guard.
He wants that Utano type, thatguy that yes played tackle, can play
tackle, and if you need tomove somebody into guard, maybe even Abe
Lucas going forward, then you justmake you know, you just make your
adjustments accordingly going forward. So heactually is getting ready to mock mems on

(58:38):
his most recent mock to the Seahawks, if I remember how he put that
accurately, and I'm here to settledisputes, but before it gets out of
hand, or maybe I you know, maybe I add something fuel to the
fire here and this ends up inan all out war. I have no
idea, Mitchell. I am atthe risk of starting a fistfight off air.

(59:04):
I'm gonna go with I'm going withMike on this one. I'm going
with that, I Mitchell. That'sright, Jack, Mitchell. Give me
him sized, body, control,speed, hands, I mean, he's
got He's got everything except production.What's not? In that Washington game,
there was this look on Mitchell's face, like nobody on earth can stop me.

(59:29):
Why are you not throwing me thefootball? There was just that sort
of air that he carried throughout.Why he doesn't get thrown the football When
he doesn't get thrown the football becausehe doesn't freaking try when he knows that
he's not the first read. We'regonna talk about that more next week.
Stay tuned. I got thoughts onthis, but all right, one on
two I am surrounded by plebeian opinionson the wide receiver position. All right,

(59:53):
we are through twenty five picks.Mike, take us home in the
first round. All right, wehave Tampa Bay taking Shop Robinson edge out
of Penn State. At twenty seven, the Cardinals are taking Nate Wiggins corner
out of Clemson. At twenty eight, the Buffalo Bills take Texas deep threat
and red zone stud at Ni Mitchell. At twenty nine, the Lions take

(01:00:20):
Darius Robinson defensive alignment out of Missouri. At thirty the Ravens take kool Aid
McKinstry corner Alabama, a freaking courseof course. At thirty one, the
Niners take Jordan Morgan offensive tackle outof Arizona, and at thirty two the
Chiefs take Zavi or lget a widereceiver out of South Carrol. That's fun,
That's really fun. I mean atthe mock that Jalen Polk would go

(01:00:45):
at thirty two to the Chiefs.That's the highest I've seen Polk and any
you know, reputable mock out there. And to add to that flavor,
Polk in the first round. Pennixnot that would be crazy, it would
polk Is is my third favorite widereceiver from you dub decent margin. Yeah

(01:01:07):
yeah, I'm taking McMillan over himevery day. But you know, the
only pick here that I don't necessarilylove is the forty nine ers taking Jordan
Morgan. I just he's not afirst rounder to me. But you know
what they they if they had aweakness on offense last year was at right
tackle. So you know, ifyou feel like this is your guy to

(01:01:30):
solidify that spot, God bless you. I think Xavier Legette out of South
Carolina to the Chiefs is super interestingbecause he's the guy that didn't do anything
for four years, like anything.I don't think he crested five hundred receiving
yards in his first four years andthen his fifth year. And I saw
a really interesting interview with him.It was actually sent to me by Twitter

(01:01:55):
follower Seattle Teachers Berner, who welove on this show. But he was
saying that he got asked, howcome you didn't do anything for four years
and then all of a sudden youhad like a fourteen hundred yard season in
your fifth year, And he waslike I studied DK metcalf. I basically
just started modeling my game after DK, and he exploded. And you put

(01:02:16):
a talent like that, I meanwe're talking big, fast, strong prototype.
You give him Andy Reid and Patrickmahomes Man. All of a sudden,
you know, we might be elevatinghim in the same conversation as some
of the top wide receivers in thisdraft, just based on on the surroundings
that he goes to. But youknow, a lot of this makes sense

(01:02:37):
to me. What kind of pissesme off is like the Eagles always seem
to end up with maybe the bestplayer in the draft. The Ravens always
seemed to end up with maybe thebest player in the draft. And even
though they're picking thirtieth, you're gettingkool Aid McKinstry, another guy that I
think is a top ten, toptwelve pick in a lot of drafts.
So, I mean, it justit just speaks to the value of potentially

(01:02:59):
ta back if you're the Seahawks oranother team that's picking in the teams is
like you have first round talent availablelate. It's just that if you're a
team picking late in the first round, you also know that there might be
first round talent waiting for you ata position to need late in the draft,
and so the desire to trade abunch of capital move up maybe is

(01:03:22):
a little bit muted compared to yearsin the past. Well, what stood
out to me unless I miss somethingand I was paying attention Penix and Nicks
not in the first round. No, No, this is a four quarterback
first round. Yeah, I meanI can see Nicks, but I cannot
see Michael Pennix making it through theentire first round. Apparently you know the

(01:03:49):
medicals. And then also how inaccuratehe is once he leaves the pocket are
two variables that people are citing forwhy this would happen. But it just
doesn't make any sense to me,And I just leaned back to the analogy
I made earlier. There are teamsin this draft, in this draft that

(01:04:10):
did nothing to satisfy their quarterback needfor this year or the face of the
franchise for the future, did nextto nothing. Some teams subtracted intentionally,
and so it's just really hard forme to believe that a few of those
teams aren't, like the Raiders,for example, aren't taking a quarterback in

(01:04:31):
this draft. I mean, they'retrying to win right now. They have
Davante Adams right now, and areyou really going to try to just band
aid this thing for another season withGardner Minshew and Aiden mco'connell. That doesn't
make a lot of sense to me. But it costs you maybe your last
year at Devonte Adams too. Yeah. Well yeah, I mean I suppose

(01:04:53):
that there's a chance that if itunfolds this way, you draft up,
you spend overnight Day number one intoday number two, and you try to
get Michael Pennix, you know,on Friday morning and with the first pick
of the second round, so he'sstill available out there. It's funny you
mentioned that, Chuck. So we'regoing to go hyper speed through the round

(01:05:14):
two and round three picks. We'renot going to touch on all of them,
but there are a number of themthat stand out. And it starts
in this mock draft with the firstpick of day two. Mike what he
got with the most sickening selection ofthis entire mind, just the Rams trade
up from fifty two to thirty threewith the Panthers to take Michael Pennox junior.
Oh boy, oh wow, god. Yeah, that is sickening if

(01:05:43):
he's as good as Chuck and Ithink, and he goes to Sean McVay
and he gets Cooper Cup, andyou know if Cooper cups still there after
Stafford, he gets to learn behindStafford, who's just like a pros pro
cornerback. He gets Sean McVay,he gets Pooka Nakua May, Cooper Cup,
whatever other stud The Rams taking thefifth round for the third straight year

(01:06:05):
after giving Kyron Williams and Nikua.Man, oh man, it's like they're
trying to anger you. The Ramshave been really good at that for a
long time. They even took yourguy a lot to in the first round.
It's like mel Kiper and field Yatesfor whatever reason, hate you.
It's really strange. Oh man.If they leave the first thirty three picks

(01:06:27):
with lot too in Pennix, yeah, yeah, just continues the theme.
Man, they know how to pressmy buttons. Yeah. So then at
thirty eight the New York Giants endup taking Bonnix, ending his slide ah,
And then I actually really like that. Yeah. Well, Drew Locke
is a difference maker. So someother notable names coming off the board on

(01:06:49):
Day two Jackson powers. Johnson centerout of Oregon goes to the Raiders at
forty four. Johnny Newton, defensivetackle goes to the Bengals at forty nine
as their DJ Reader replacement. That'sa major slide. Yeah, the linebackers
that we touched on last week.You got Eddrian Cooper at fifty three to

(01:07:09):
the Eagles, Peyton Wilson at fiftyeight to the Packers, and Junior Colson
at seventy to the Titans. Andthen at seventy six the Broncos take their
potential quarterback of the future in SpencerRattler. And then with their second pick
in the draft at eighty one,the Seattle Seahawks take Zach Ziner, guard

(01:07:30):
out of Michigan. Okay, Iactually love that. So here's the thing
on Zach Center, and we didnot talk about him during the Offensive Line
draftkas Or episode, and we probablyshould have. This is a guy that
missed the college football playoffs this pastyear because he broke his leg in November.
He's fully expected to be ready forthe start of training camp. Three

(01:07:53):
time All Big Ten selection, unanimousAll American guard this past year, despite
missing some games at the end ofthe season, Seattle adds him to the
interior that line after signing Lake andtomlins In. I don't hate it.
He's big, he's tough, he'sexperienced. He's a champion, even though
he wasn't as you mentioned in thechampionship game he got injured, I believe

(01:08:16):
in the Ohio State game, youknow, on their route to the championship
a year ago. So he certainlyfalls into that category if you grab him,
that he could compete round number threefor a starting guard position if it
is still open. Seahawks did signTomlinson this week as well to to sort

(01:08:38):
of add to that competition, butit's not I don't view him as or
at least from what I've read,I don't think he's viewed as a plug
and play. This guy's ready tostart right now in the National Football League.
I think he's just somebody that youadd to your guard room that could
compete for a spot now and inthe future. I would, given where

(01:09:00):
Seattle is at with their guard position, that Zack Center can work his way
into the starting lineup sooner rather thanlater. If he doesn't, I would
be pretty concerned. You know.Again, we'll talk wide receiver more in
depth next week, But there werea lot in this mock. There a
lot of wide receivers go in thesecond round. Keon Coleman, who is

(01:09:24):
you know, one of the moreincendiary picks in this year's class. He
goes to the Patriots at thirty four. God, I just I don't know
about New England being the right spot. I feel like Keon Coleman's a guy
that kind of has to go tothe right spot. But if he does,
could be a monster and maybe himand Drake may they form that rookie

(01:09:45):
chemistry in the next three four years. Really see something there. I think
that's super interesting. The bow Knickspick to the Giants makes a lot of
sense to me because at thirty eight, yeah, you got flexibility to take
a guy like next someone that isgoing He feels like the exact opposite of
Daniel Jones, who's an improviser.Bo Nix is a paint by numbers quarterback.

(01:10:06):
He's a high floor maybe I thinkkind of a low ceiling quarterback.
But you give him Malik Neighbors.They've put a lot of draft capital into
the receiver room over the last fewyears. There could be something there.
I'm trying to remember where I sawAlad McConkey go. He goes to Carolina
Panthers, got thirty nine. Aguy gets opened really really quickly, which

(01:10:26):
is I think exactly what Brady sungneeds. I mean, there's we saw,
we saw Malachi Corley, who youknow, a lot of people are
comping to Deebo Samuel every year.Every year, the most unpolished receiver in
the draft gets comped to Deebo Samuel. I'm not as high on Courtley as
other people are. Ricky Pearsal tothe Saints. I freaking love that.

(01:10:47):
I love Ricky Pearsal so much.Jalen Polt goes to the Colts. I
mean, like, there's a lotof wide receiver landing spots that I think
are really really interesting. McMillan tothe Steelers. I mean teams picking the
second round that need receiver. Thisis what makes me think that we might

(01:11:08):
not see teams move up to drafta quarterback in the first round, knowing
that there's this much talent available onDay two. Yeah. Well yeah,
and that's freak into the Browns too. Man. Yeah, that's gonna be
good. That's gonna be good forthe Seahawks, especially if they do what
I think they're going to do,and that is moved down. I think

(01:11:28):
it kind of behooves them. Iwouldn't you like to have two or three
bytes of the apple based off allof that talent you just listed off that
could be available in rounds two andthree versus just taking your guy at sixteen
and not picking again until eighty one. I think they got a chance to
do. I mean, normally Idon't recommend this. I just think that
it feels like the type of yearthat that's the move here. I think

(01:11:53):
it's because of the quality of thisdraft, where the Seahawks are in their
development and all so where they aredraft positionally, after making the Leonard Williams
trade a year ago. I don'tthink you want to miss out on getting
three guys in the top eighty onethis year just to get your favorite player

(01:12:15):
of the second tier of first roundersthat are available to you at sixteen.
So yeah, it feels loaded.I mean when Zach Center at thirty,
when you're Zach Center at eighty onein the third round, it just kind
of hits home, like, man, that's a pretty good picket in the
round number three to add to theteam. And then you go through all

(01:12:36):
the guys that you missed out on. Yeah, it just feels like it's
one of those drafts that I wanta few more pieces from on days one
and two. Yeah, I'm justlooking at some of these guys that are
going in this mock on day two, and man, I'm with you,
there's so many that I would loveto see Seattle be able to take in

(01:12:57):
addition to pick number eighty one.It's just can't find the right dance partner
to make that happen. Yeah,Chiefs, Bills, watch out for those
two, Yeah, watch out forthose Yeah. Absolutely, And a lot
of talk about the Steelers, theEagles, and the Packers also trying to
move up. So I mean,I think the options are going to be
there. And you know, Ilove when the war room videos come out

(01:13:20):
a week two weeks after the draftand you see the gms working the phones.
Man, I would give anything tosee what's happening on John Schneider's phone
after the fifteenth pick in this draft. Yeah. Well, and most of
that stuff is set up beforehand.Just so you know. These are a
couple of things I learned from TonySoftly, who's been in the war room

(01:13:40):
before with Carolina, with the RAMSand other organizations, most of that stuff
set up beforehand. You know youmight get you know, you might you
might based on who falls to sixteen. You know, you might get some
surprise phone call. But usually they'vekind of figured out trade compensation prior to

(01:14:00):
and then they adjust to who's thereon the clock when you're ready to pick,
and that's where you got your fifteenminute window to just kind of finalize
things. So I'm guaranteed John Schneider'swork the phones. He knows exactly what
the plan is, and I'm surethat there's a player or two that he's
not going to move off from thatif they're available at sixteen, he's going

(01:14:23):
to go ahead and grab them.But my guess is he's talked to everyone
in the league and already as agame plan for who gets the phone call
once the Seahawks are on the clockthere at sixteen. Well, and I
think a really underrated aspect of havinga long term GM in place, And

(01:14:43):
I don't know how many gms havebeen in their position longer than John Schneider
going into what I believe is thisfifteenth year as the Seahawks General manager.
He has relationships with all of theseguys, these first time gms or second
year gms, like, yeah,they got every buddy's numbered in their phone,
but do they have those relationships yet? John Schneider's got those relationships.

(01:15:05):
He knows exactly how all the othergms in the NFL, except for the
brand new guys, operate. Heknows what they're looking for, and relationships
go a long way. And saywhat you want about John Schneider's talent evaluation.
Maybe you're super in favor of it, maybe you're super frustrated by it,
but regardless, he has the relationshipsand that cannot be understated how important

(01:15:29):
that is. Yeah, yeah,oh yeah. It's a fun process,
is it not. It's the bestprocess. Yeah, And that's why we
do this. That's right, allright, y'all. That's going to do
it. For the fifth episode ofWhitewater Drafting. Thank you to Chuck Powell
as always, and you can findMike, Chuck and I on social media.

(01:15:51):
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(01:16:11):
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(01:16:32):
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(01:18:05):
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