March 4, 2025 • 54 mins
Tunde Adebimpe is a creative powerhouse. He's a cartoonist, a painter, a director, a Hollywood actor, and for the past 20 years, he’s been the lead singer of the band TV On The Radio. His latest offering—another of his many artistic pursuits—is a solo project called Thee Black Boltz.
Tunde began writing these songs back in 2019. And after a stint composing music for the PBS Kids show “City Island” with producer Wilder Zoby, the two decided to set their sights on Tunde’s growing collection of solo songs. Both Jaleel Bunton and Jahphet Landis of TV On The Radio also contributed to the album, which sounds every bit as fresh and thrilling as Tunde’s past work.
On today’s episode Leah Rose talks to Tunde Adebimpe about how staying steeped in creative projects keeps him sane. He also recalls his days working as a stop-motion artist on MTV’s Celebrity Death Match, and why he thinks TV On The Radio isn’t cool enough to be considered “indie sleaze.”
You can hear a playlist of some of our favorite songs from Tunde Adebimpe HERE.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Tunday at Abimpe is a creative powerhouse. He's a cartoonist,
a painter, a director, a Hollywood actor, and for the
past twenty years, he's been the lead singer of the
band TV on the Radio. His latest offering, another of
his many artistic pursuits, is a solo project called The
Black Bolts. Tunday began writing these songs back in twenty nineteen,
(00:41):
and after a stint composing music for the PBS kids
show City Island with producer Wilder Zobie, the two decided
to set their sights on Tunday's growing collection of solo songs.
Bul Chu, Leo Bunten and Joah Fittlandis of TV on
the Radio also contributed to the album, which sounds every
bit as fresh and thrilling as Tunday's past work. On
today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Tunday out A Bempe
(01:03):
about how stain steeped in creative projects keeps him sane.
He also recalls his day's work and as a stop
motion artists on MTV Celebrity Deathmatch, and why he thinks
TV on the Radio isn't cool enough to be considered
INDI sleas this is broken record, real musicians, real conversations.
(01:28):
Here's Leah Rose's conversation with Tunday out of Bempe.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So I have I have a theory about how you
came to record to finally put out this solo album.
So I saw that in the not so distant past
you learned how to mix, how to master, how to produce,
and you started sort of like messing around in ableton
and you know, you had been in TV on the
(01:56):
radio for over twenty years, So was was you learning
how to technically use those tools? Was that what kind
of like pushed you to do your own project?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Not exactly. I think I went into that.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I went to this, yeah, this place a friend taught
at this school dub Spot, which I think has gone now,
and did some you know, just just kind of getting
my head around able to end mixing and mastering.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And I think it was more so.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
I wouldn't have to wait for us all get together
while I was making something as a band, and I
could just be like send people stuff and be like
here's a stronger basis for this and you can fuck
around with it or do whatever. But I will also
say that one of the things that experience taught me of,
at least as far as the mixing and mastering end
(02:56):
of it, is that like, I absolutely am not the
person who should be doing that with any of my
own stuff. I can do it, but it's it would
take me. There are things that you know, I'm working
with Wilder right now.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Who is just.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
He is however he would put it, I'm telling you
that he's he's He's a person who's fluent, you know,
doing that. And I'm a person who, like, if I
am pushed to, I will sit there and do it myself.
But it is not it's not that end of it
is not like I'm more a person who's making tons
(03:36):
and tons and tons of voice notes and then taking
those and making demos from them and right and then
kind of like sitting with someone and fleshing things out
and leading, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Like I feel like the it's it's a skill to
to tag in the right people.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Forever, yeah, and just be like you were great at that,
You're great at that, You're great at that, and I
want you to do that, you know, in conjunction with
this with.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
This p.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So how did you meet Wilder? What
have you known him for a while or how did
that relationship?
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yeah, and then Wilderford for a really really long time.
I think we probably met like nineteen ninety eight or something.
I just had a lot of mutual friends and just
bands playing around in New York like Brooklyn on the
Lower East Side, but have just been like, you know,
(04:37):
really been friends forever and it never worked together. And
he you know, he does a lot of work with
Run the Jewels and other projects, and actually got a
gig doing a soundtrack for a kids show on PBS
called City Island. One of my my degenerate animator friends
(05:00):
from MTV as we all grew up is now just
an incredibly h generous and peaceful and wonderful person who
wants to put good things into the end of the
world and made an awesome kids show to soundtrack it.
And so I kind of I called Wilder to kind
(05:23):
of like you know, the split the there's a lot
of a lot of music, and just said, would you
want to like work on this.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Thing with me?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
And we started doing that just as as a gig,
and just kind of halfway through it, i'd been you know,
I put these demos that I've been working on for
my own thing of these songs that I thought could
turn into something else aside, and I started thinking about
them again and I just let him know. I was
just like, if you want to tribe something on some
of these, please be my guest, and you know, just
(05:52):
like another thing to do. And he worked on two
songs and sent them to me, just like even in
the most like skeletal form, and I basically was like,
if if we can do this entire record ourselves together
right here, because it was funny because we developed this
(06:14):
working relationship. This is kind of nine to five get
we gotta get these notes in, like we got to
do all this stuff for PBS kids. Yeah, so then
it was a pretty natural jump to just working on
these songs together kind of with the same attitude. The
funny thing of working for a show or SOUNDTRACKINGCAU someone's like,
(06:35):
you know, someone will call you about something you spend
two days working on. Just be like this is great,
except all of it's wrong and you have to have
to change everything, and you just realize very quickly that
you can't get attached to anything. You just have to
It's hard, but again, it's also kind of freeing in
a way because you're it's this thing of like as
long as it sounds right in the end. The there's
(06:59):
a lot of hold up I find, either recording with
the band or just other projects, there can be a
lot of pausing going like ah, I'm not sure about this,
Like you know, it's not even before something's done. There
can be a lot of hesitation and I feel.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
So that's definitive feedback.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yes, definitive feedback.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
And it's also sort of like I know that this
can go a million different ways and none of them
are wrong and none of them are right. It's just
kind of like, you know, do something, does it feel okay?
Not sure about it? Step away for a bit. But
also we had a while working on the record, we
had a code for going back in and working on
(07:40):
something or leaving it alone, and it was the code
was is this dry paint or is this wet paint?
And there were it's great to have someone to bounce
something off of where you're like, no, I really want
to go back and fix that, and they're sort of like,
I think it's dry paint. And then you got to
walk around for a second and just come back and
be like, actually you're right, I don't need to mess
with that. And it's fine that I feel a little
(08:02):
uncomfortable about it, because we'll see that's the whole part
of putting something out too, is like that's it's for
It's a circuit for someone else to complete in a
lot of ways. Yeah, right, Like this is this all
these spots on the record that I'm not sure about.
First off, no one's ever going.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
To know, no one, Yeah no.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
And also, like when you're talking about engineering, like I
wonder if I'm sort of fascinated by engineering because I
don't think I have the tools to really distinguish, you know,
like if something you know, people listen to albums like
oh this is mixed so well, and I'm like, oh yeah,
Like I wonder if if you were to just mix
(08:46):
the album, like would it sound wildly different? But now
you know, because you sort of have you've seen the
back end.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
I mean, if I were first off, it was if
it was just going to be me mixing it, it
wouldn't be done by no, it would just be it
just would not and it wouldn't be good. I'm just
I'm safely I can safely say.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
I'm not like it would be muddy, or.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
It would be muddy, and it would be I would
scrap a lot of things out of frustration that someone
who just that wilder would be like, no, just do
this and this and this and keep working on it
and it's done.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Yeah. So I think most of the stuff that I
was uncertain about on the record between the two of
us would be more kind of aesthetic choices. Yes's sort
of like, I don't know if this.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
With me.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Sometimes it would be lyrics and I would just say, like,
I like, I'm eighty percent on these lyrics, thinking like
this all lands really well for me and makes some
kind of sense because you know, you say with something
forever and you're sort of like, are these words anymore?
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Oh totally.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
But it's but again, it's like there's some things where
you're sort of I feel like with TV on the radio,
I would sit there for a very long time and
to obsess over certain things lyrically, just because it's there
was a there was something I don't know that was
(10:21):
that was a mode of being in all of that,
Whereas with this, I feel like I didn't obsess a
lot about things, and if I felt myself going in
to do that because ultimately it also doesn't really matter
that much at.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
The Yeah, exactly, it's me here. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
And also I feel like with TV on the radio,
it was sort of after a point you realize you're
writing something that you're gonna have to sing literally hundreds
of times, and so kind of like which is a
bad way for me. I would say that's a bad
way to think about writing anything, you know, like anticipating
(11:03):
the torture of like saying this stuff that you thought
was stupid before you recorded it, and now you're like, now
it's stupid in public and it's great.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Well, is there anything any songs that now when you're
performing them hundreds of times that you're like, oh, I
wish that I would have changed that.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
There are two answers, and both of them are no.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
The first first, the first part of it is I
think I've been and it's worked out.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I don't we don't play those songs.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Oh good call, you just don't.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Play and there but there are a couple of songs
where just on stage, if I had a lyric that
I thought was better that I never recorded, I'll just
sing that one.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Oh it doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Great, Yeah, feel those are two brilliant fixes.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Yeah, don't do it or bend reality.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yes, I wanted to ask you about the title the
Black Bolts.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
How did you come upon that?
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I came upon it just it just came out of
a lot of free writing. I'll just write, like just
to shake the shake the garbage can or the brain
out in the morning, just free write whatever and look
at it a few weeks later and think, are these lyrics?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Is this nothing? Am I crazy? Whatever?
Speaker 4 (12:27):
And that was in there and the essentially it's the
idea of a point of illumination in some heavy darkness,
and the idea of lightning actually realized, like a lot
of the songs ended up having this this mentioned of
lightning or theme of lightning, and started to feel like
(12:51):
the Black Bolts are. There is a spark of inspiration
that can come in the middle of a very heavy
time or a depression or events that kind of seemed
to you know, obscure, obscure the good things from from
your sight, but you know the whole You know, thunderclouds
can generate bolt of electricity that illuminates the whole landscape
(13:15):
and for at least for a second, you can see,
like the beauty and it the tragedy in it, you know,
all aspects of it, and maybe maybe feel better about
the you know, and actually appreciate that that darkness of
it too.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yeah, it made me think it's very evocative, the title,
and it made me think that maybe you're making a
metal album.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I would. I mean, that's the other part of it.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
As I was kind of finishing it up, I was like,
this is a very good name for a metal band. Yeah,
and maybe I'm a metal band.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Now. Maybe that's fat to do, but yeah, now I
feel like it's.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
A it's a good It definitely works, and it stuck
as something that was like a good Like I think
I before I even started putting songs in order or
knew that I was making a record, I kind of
had that as the a guiding a guiding theme and
guiding set away.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
What is the feeling in you when you realize like, oh, okay,
I'm about to put out an album.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
Are you excited? Are you nervous? Are you a little bit?
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Like?
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Do you get self conscious.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
With this? I feel like.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
I was around it for so long because it just
kind of got done and kind of and fits and starts.
I've been working on it from the end of twenty
nineteen until last spring. Wow, I feel like just you know,
with a lot of interruptions, but I feel like that's
(14:54):
kind of the timeline of all of those songs being created.
So I right now, I just feel relieved that it's
actually going to, you know, get away from me and
out into the world. Can kind of see what that does.
And I feel like again, another part of working on
(15:15):
it for such a long time is that I'm not
too attached or detached from any of the songs or
the record. I just feel like it's a really it
has the feeling of we made something that feels like
a really good gift, and now it's time to give
(15:36):
it away and it's up to.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Whoever gets it.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Whoever gets it physically or mentally or emotionally, it's for them. No.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
After quick break, we're back with more from Leo Rose's
conversation with Tundai out of Binbai.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
There's a lot of life that happens between twenty nineteen
and now. Oh totally was there like seasons in your life?
Are things you were going through that are you know,
whether it's like personally or professionally that showed up on
this album for you.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Oh, definitely the I mean, the biggest thing was.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Basically I started writing these demos in twenty nineteen when
TV on the Radio took a break, and then when
I started to really get into it and decide like, Okay,
I'm gonna maybe look around for some producers to collaborate
with or some folks that collaborate with the pandemic hit
(16:38):
and it was kind of like, I'm not looking around
to do anything with anybody because everybody's freaked out and
at home trying to figure things out. So that was
kind of a rocky beginning to that. But during that time,
you know, wrote a couple of songs and edging into
(16:59):
the end of twenty twenty, had shopped some things around.
Like nobody wanted to do anything because I think there
was a lot of uncertainty, But there were a lot
of labels who were kind of like, yeah, we're not
really trying to get anybody on our label right now.
We don't know what's going to I think it was
the uncertainty about touring and how people would like make
(17:21):
a return on their investment. But that was definitely a
that was a humbling experience. It was like, oh right,
it's not two thousand and eight. Nobody cares nobody, nobody
cares about what I'm making and that's fine, which is fine,
but you know, kind of got it together, put some
(17:41):
more demos together, and thought about Subpop because they are
one of the labels that made me deeply interested in music,
and also.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Just the really.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Foundational feeling of you can you don't have to be
of virtuo, so you can make whatever you want, just
finish it. You know, it's kind of the the mode
and you also you know, it's it's very expansive.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, it was a lot of teenage teenage.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Jet fuel from Subpop for me and Yeah, so we
finally called them and they essentially said, it'd be so
great to work with you. We wanted to work with
you and the band forever, which was not a piece
of information that made it to me until I was
talking to them. I was just like, if you if
I'd known that, like, you know, a long while ago,
(18:36):
it probably would have happened. So they were really very
down for it, and two weeks after I signed with
them and they were, you know, into making the record.
My sister, my younger sister passed away very very suddenly,
like out of nowhere, and this is the person who,
(18:57):
I will say, without any hesitation, was like easily the
most important person to me in my life, you know,
like sorry everyone, sorry, everybody else. Yeah, that's that's the
that's the the case. Sorry, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah. It was heavy, you know, really a bizarre thing.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
She was not you know, was not ill, was not
There was no lead up to it, so that, you know,
going from I've got this record to make, I just signed,
and like people are expecting something in a matter of
months going to I don't want to do anything like
at all. I have to actually stop doing almost anything
(19:43):
and just kind of you know, like regroup and take
some time, you know, to actually process a lot of that,
because that was one of those things, you know, and
during I think people had a lot of time to
think in the thicker pandemic.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Of just like what is my.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Life still and think and have and they're they're also
I think during that time there were a couple of
other losses that I hadn't really processed that had happened
in the last ten years, and I realized I hadn't
really processed them because I was essentially in this band
(20:25):
that was putting out a record and going on tour
and putting out a record and going on tour, putting
out a record and going on tour, and then pandemic
hits and this big loss hits, and it's a lot
of just kind of not I don't know if not
running away is the right way to put it, but
just suddenly having time and in that, you know, in
(20:46):
the negative space of that time, all of this stuff
comes rushing in and you have there's no opportunity for
you to not think about it. So that was a
big My sister passing was a big thing. But the
other side of that is, you know, this person is
such a humongous inspiration to me. The thing that they
(21:09):
would want me to do, Yes, to keep going and
and writing and do yeah, do the thing that like,
you know, my sister also was a musician and and acted,
and just do the thing that bonded over and keep going.
And she would be like, don't you can't. You cannot
(21:30):
fucking quit because then you would be a loser. She's like,
and we are not losers.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
We don't.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Our family doesn't do that. So there's this There is
a song on the on the record that's dedicated to her.
The record is dedicated to her and and to other
family members.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
That which song is that I can see the track
list on Spotify.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
It's all great out. We can't hear it, but we
can see it.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It's the song it's just called It's called il y
just I love you.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Oh yeah, yeah, very very simple note to her and
to thank you to her.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
So how has the grief evolved now that it's you've
had a little bit of time, You know.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
If you've experienced it pretty significant loss, you know that
it doesn't it just it gets better in some ways.
But more than that, I think it just changes and
it it sinks. It sinks into a place where it's
on the level as on the same level as the
(22:29):
positive memories of this person or the positive aspects of
of your life. But I will say that making something
that feels like you're you know, that's a tribute to
these people that you love, or an offering to these people,
to the spirits of these people that you that you
(22:50):
love and lost, is it really? At least for me,
is was very therapeutic. And I don't I don't think.
I don't think art always has to be that at all,
but in this case, for me, it definitely, it definitely was,
you know, and it was something to do besides the
any number of horrible things that you could be doing
(23:13):
to yourself totally to avoid pain or grief.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, No, being constructive and continuing to work seems like
it could have a big benefit.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And it seems like you have like a really healthy
work ethic, And it sounds like your sister did as well.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
She definitely more than me. But yeah, when I get
around to it, I've got I've got a.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Pretty health Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Where do you think the drive comes from?
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
I feel like it's kind of like what else am
I gonna do? There's a lot of it. And I
think if you conditioned yourself to put your whether you
know you're doing it or not.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
To put your.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Messy feelings or bombastic feelings or basically any way, that
you kind of can't be in this Like you can't
run around screaming your head off about you know, how
wronged you've been, you know, by someone, or how excited
you are, or how you can revel in the nonsense
(24:22):
of this world and events and people and feelings. But
I think if you just through making art, if you
kind of if that's your way of processing the world
or making yes, that's your anchor in the world, is
to be like at least I can write it down,
or at least I can draw it, or at least
I can get a few friends together and make a
(24:44):
short film about it. Then all of it kind of
makes sense. All of the shit that doesn't make sense,
this is a place for it to make its own.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Kind of sense.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
When you guys, So, when TV on the Radio first
started making music together, how long did it take for
you to sound like TV on the Radio?
Speaker 4 (25:04):
I feel like it's debatable because I I feel like
there's so many different ways to sound like TV on
the Radio and it kind.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Of kept evolving.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
It did.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Hopefully we'll keep evolving.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
But you know, the first thing that came out under
the name TV on the Radio is pretty like probably
a few months after Dave and I met Dave Sidek.
When I met, we both had all these four track
tapes just weirdo stuff that we'd made, and when that
was kind of our point of like, you know, meeting
(25:41):
and friendship is that we were both painters and both
like made silly four track stuff or not so silly
four track stuff. And that was a compilation of that
four track stuff, which was all over the place and
some songs that were a little more I guess, like
quote unquote produced that we made together. And to me
(26:02):
that sounded like TV on the radio. It's like, this
can be recorded in a basement with like one mic,
or it can be recorded in like a super cheap
studio with you know, equipment present. And then and then
with the Young Liar's EP, it got more real bandy yeah,
and that to me is also like you know, that's
(26:23):
to me, I guess would be the a solid a
solid version of the first iteration of a TV on
the radio sign and then desperate youth. Like we didn't
know what we were doing, so it was kind of like, is.
Speaker 5 (26:37):
That why there's like two titles for the album?
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Well, yeah, yeah, it's that, And just like I feel
like in a lot of ways, it was a step
backwards because we didn't know what we were doing. Not
in a bad way really, but just like kind of
in a way of like, well what are we doing?
Because we went from working occasionally on this thing that
turned into an EP that might have been a longer record,
except that someone heard it and wanted to put it
(27:00):
out and then yeah, they're like, we're giving you a
record deal, so let's make the next thing right now,
and we're sort of like, I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
It's like, I don't know how to you know, Like.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
At least my my observation from it was there was
a certain amount of new panic about what needed to
happen and ideas about what it should be, and all.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Of that was that like inner band conversations or from
the outside.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I think from both.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Just what should this be now instead of just making
it and saying that's what it is, you know, because
what should this be? As a real waste of time, yeah,
you don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
But then after that.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Cookie Mountain became that's when you know, we we we
locked in. We locked ourselves in and we locked in,
and then that turned into a new iteration of the sound.
But I, you know, I guess I would I would
probably say, like the first EP was pretty pretty locked
down at least on on the recordings.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
Did you do you like it? The first EP?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I really liked it?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Yeah, which was no, it was and it's a real
you know it marks a certain spot in time, just
like emotionally and yeah, just feeling feeling wise, it's I
actually haven't listened to I haven't listened to anything that
we've done in its entirety, Like I'll listen to it
(28:39):
when it's done being mixed and mastered probably I'll listen
to everything the whole way through, but I haven't looked,
so I haven't listened to Young Liars like since in
its entirety since it came out, But.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
So why not just like throw it on one day?
Like it's what's the why not listen to it?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Because I feel like that you know that the touch
was that.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
There's a Christopher Walking Home movie is it the Dead
Zone where touches people and suddenly like flood of emotions
and like you can see everything that's happened to them
and will happen to them. It's kind of like that
where it's like, oh, something like oh this is good,
and then I'll like hear one thing and just be like, oh,
what a terrible time that was where I did this
and did that and all that.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
But it's less and less. But if I hear it
when it's on, if it's on somewhere.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Yeah, Like I'm never like, I'm very rarely am I
cringing about it?
Speaker 5 (29:34):
Oh that's good.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Yeah, But I like I like the fact that we,
you know, we got it together and made this thing
that didn't I know that people just like, you know,
it's like, well, doesn't sound like anything else. And I
was like, but that's the point, Like, no one should
sound like anything else.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
It's so good.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
But it's it was also so good be able to make,
you know, get it together with your friends and make
something that sounded like good and fresh and new to
and honest, you know.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
To you and you knew it was fresh and new
when you were making it. Did you have perspective?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Will? The perspective was kind of.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
And it was weird because it was I think the
perspective was it was very shortly after September eleventh that
we started making that would ended up being that EP,
And I think the deal was this is the this
is the most important thing to us right now, is
that we can we can create this reality that we
(30:36):
can swim in and live in and like energize ourselves with.
So it was a you know, for as much of
a whatever that whatever mood that that EP puts people in.
It was definitely it was an odd kind of pick
me up for all of us to work This is
you know, this is something something we have control over
(30:58):
and it's also something that like we can do anything with.
So that was a real that's that's that feeling was
inspiring working on.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Oh, totally. Yeah, empowering.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Yeah, that's a similar to what you were saying about
the grief with your new album is having sort of
some you know, like a creative life raft at the time,
something to focus on and something to pour you know,
pour yourself into and.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Process emotion through.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah, that's awesome. That's a great thing, great thing to have.
I saw when I was just like getting ready for
this interview, I saw that Spotify, you know, Spotify makes
different playlists and they have a cover image for the playlists,
and I saw that TV on the Radio is the
cover image for the Indie Sleeves playlist. Really, yes, right now?
(31:54):
What does that make sure it's your new it's a
new promo picture.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, it's Is it a black and white picture?
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Might be.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
That's where the we're the delegates from Indie Sleeves.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Yes, So I'm wondering now that, like, you know, I
don't know if you saw that yacht.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Rock documentary, No, I want to.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
It's really great, but it turns out a lot of
people who were considered yacht rock, which is a term
that was made up by like a online comedy group,
a lot of the people who are in that category,
that that genre, you know, don't like that, don't like
that classification. So I'm wondering for you now, sitting where
(32:38):
you're sitting, like, how does how does Indi Sleis sit
in twenty twenty five?
Speaker 5 (32:43):
And was it even real? Is it a thing?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I don't know. I don't Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
I uh, It's really it's interesting to me because I
think when you're in something, it's also very odd because
you like, I'll never have the bird's eye view of
someone who, like, twenty years later can look at whatever
(33:13):
set of images, whatever set of songs or records or
you know, the first person accounts or rock critic reviews, like,
I'll never have that overview. It kind of just my
overview is I started making stuff with my friends, and
we went to see other friends who made stuff with
their friends.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, and we all.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
And no one had a cell phone there wasn't any internet.
We got to we got to kind of we had
really cheap rent and got to make things. Yeah, but
I personally don't feel like our band was cool enough
to be part of the indie sleeves.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
See. I just don't. I don't. I didn't see it.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
But there's also one of those things where people talk
about Electroclash, and I feel like the Electroclash movement was
like five weekends at this bar called Luxe and then
it was that was it.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
It was over, you know, but it was.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
This holding just like Electroclash, like you know, blew through
Blue through New York.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It was this huge movement.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
I was like, at least Williamsburgers.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
So I don't know, it is it's it's funny, it is.
It's funny to me to see that that's a thing
because it makes me think about it makes me think
about Seattle and Grudge and or.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Even like the Summer of Love.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
You know, that was also a pretty short period that
is like, oh my gosh, we're still talking about it.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
And we're still talking about it, and I don't.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
I mean, and I'm sure like if you talk to
someone from when that was happening. They can give you
a list of you know, you felt like something was
going on, but it's also the I feel like with
us and our and I'm you know, I guess like
speaking from myself, but the feeling that all of that
(35:06):
stuff was active and alive and fleet and not something
that like like we're making the stuff that we're gonna
preserve in a glass case and it's gonna stand the
test of time. Like I feel like it was very
much this is immediate moment to moment.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
After one last quick break, we're back with the rest
of Leo Rose's conversation with Tunday out of Bemba.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
I'm sure you you are aware of this, but Wolf,
like me, was playing at the Super Bowl.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Yeah, now, I heard a friend told me that too,
which is was it in a It's It's weird. It's
one of those things where you'll get an email like
like three or four years ago or something saying just
like we're going to use this for a commercial for
fifteen seconds or whatever, and you're like, okay, that's that,
(36:03):
and then you'd have no idea where it shows up.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Is that like a nice check though? Like is that
a good thing?
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I mean, I don't know how many times they played it.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
I think I saw so I looked it up on
Reddit and apparently, I guess Fox NFL plays it in
their broadcasts.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Okay, I mean, is it a nice check? I don't know.
I guess we'll see, but I it's a check.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's nice.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
It's a check. It's also like, I don't know, I
got laundry lists, I got subscriptions and issues with all
of that stuff. But I'm glad people are hearing the song.
The vessel isn't always awesome.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, but.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I'm glad people are hearing the song. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Did you have an expectation, because I know, growing up
you've always been into art, You've always drawn. Did you
have an expectation at any point to make money or
was it like a total surprise.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
I think I've always well, I was in an expectation
to have a job. Yeah, to turn it like where
I knew. It's like, this isn't a It's not a
hobby for me, like for better or or worse, because
I'm incapable of doing anything else, you know, like well
or just this is what I've been doing and what
(37:29):
I want to do. But you know, you have examples
that like when I the first thing I thought I
was going to do was make comics, like make underground
comics or you know, at first I think it was
much younger. I was like, I'm going to do a
comic strip like Helvin Hobbs.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Of course, like telling my dad that, who's like an
immigrant from Nigeria who grew up in a village and
worked his way up to being like, you know, a
medical director and a hospital somewhere. He's like, well, how
are you going to make money? Yeah, And I said,
I don't know, I don't know. Do people make money
(38:07):
doing that? He said, of course, And then he would,
you know, actually be like here's the just there's actually
a book in the library that shows what commercial artists make,
and here's what a comic strip artist makes, poor strip.
Here's who you write to to get all this stuff.
And so there was always this idea of just like,
there's a way to make Yeah, this thing I want
(38:28):
to do, like I would, I will have to hustle
and make money doing it. But I also never like
and I Bill, you know, was never There's never any
part of me that was like I'm going to do
this thing and I'm going to make.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
So much money.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Yeah, so much money. And that's exactly why I'm going
to do it, because I'm going to make so much
you know, it's like never it's there's people that I
looked up to who you know, like I said, these
underground comic artists or even like superhero comic artists where
it's just like I make a hundred bucks a page
and I turn in thirty pages and I'm like that,
(39:09):
you know, and you're like fifteen, and you're like that
sounds great.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
You'll realize it's.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Like literally backbreaking work to sit there like a table
for like forever to do that. But you know, there's
always some idea of like I have to turn this
into a job however I can, like I have to
support myself doing this thing. And the idea that like
you also don't like thinking like about make any kind
(39:38):
of being an artist is there's no you don't really retire. Yeah,
Like I don't think there's not a point where I'm
going to be like, Okay, that's it. I did enough
and now I'm going to, like ye sit on the
dock of the bay wasting.
Speaker 5 (39:54):
Time, go to Margaritaville.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
To watch a million a million sunsets. Yeah no, but
but it's.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
The there's there's definitely always a part where it's sort
of like, I want to be doing this creative work.
I want to have this mode of processing, you know,
being alive in events and feelings, and I'd like to
be able to support myself doing that. And if I'm
(40:26):
not able to directly support myself doing this creative work,
I'm going to hustle and find something else to support
that creative work.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
Yep. How did you get a job at Celebrity Deathmatch?
How did that happen? And what were you doing there?
Speaker 4 (40:41):
I was animating. I was making puppets beat the shit
out of each other for a few years. Yeah, making,
That's what I was doing at Deathmatch. And I got
the job because I was at the school in New
York as at NYU, and I went there for live
(41:04):
action directing, and within two years realized that I was
really not it was not a good director because I
didn't feel comfortable telling people what to do.
Speaker 5 (41:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
I would just be like, here's a scenario, just just
like do what you want? Yeah, do you want?
Speaker 4 (41:21):
And I'll just you know, we'll film it and we'll
edit it, and it'll be what it's it'll be what
it's going to be. You know, everyone's like in their
like teens and early twenties and like no one's listening
to each other. And I was kind of like, I
don't want it's just it was it wasn't for me.
And since I you know, like drawing and animating, I
ended up going into stop motion like yeah, my junior,
(41:44):
and uh really like loving it, you know, like I
think I saw the Nightment before Christmas.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
It was kind of just like, oh, yeah, like that,
that's what I want to do. That's that that looks great.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
And so like I ended up, like my my short
film ended up winning an award at the end of
the year, and everyone else was, you know, at that time,
doing really kind of early computer animation as they were graduating,
and they're.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Like, why are you Why are you using puppets.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
You're gonna be broke, You're gonna have to live in
like a basement and Czechoslovakia to like nake, you know,
sort of noone cares about that shit here. And I
was like, yeah, but I care about it, and I
can learn computers later if I know how to do this,
then that'll be fine. And then we all got out
of school. I was I was asked to leave school
because to do my senior project, I stopped going to classes.
(42:35):
It was a whole whole issue, the whole stupid thing.
But it got done. I got out.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
MTV was doing they.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Were just looking for animators for this new new show
that was based on this short that one of the
directors and artists over at MTV Animation made, this guy,
Eric Fogel. So yeah, I sent my tape in and
like went in and you know, they said, can you
come in and talk? And I remember I went in
(43:03):
and we didn't talk about animation at all. He just
said all these weird ass toys in his office. And
I was like, oh, you look, are you like this?
And and I left and I got a call, like,
you know, like two days later that I was hired.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
So it was one of the first eighteen animators on
that show.
Speaker 5 (43:18):
Wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
It was good.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
It was like a good boot camp for stop motion
and because you know, you're doing it five days a
week for like, you know, eight hours a day, and
you're sort of like, oh, I'm now I'm making stuff
that people are going to be watching on TV. And
if you you know me even saying that, if you
go back and look at those early episodes, like they're.
Speaker 5 (43:42):
Not good, they're not no like technically or.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
They're yeah, technically now they're Punces in the mill are good.
And that was the thing.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
It was like the sliding scale of people who had
like just got out of school and people doing stop
motion for you know, twenty years.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
It's so specialized.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Yeah, were you in TV on the radio then? Like
was were you just starting to play then? Or was
that did those overlap at all?
Speaker 4 (44:09):
No? I started making four track stuff kind of more
in earnest around, like while I was working at Deathmatch,
pretty much as an antidote to the how tedious that Yeah,
that was yeah to be you know, like the whole
(44:29):
thing of like I mean, you know, like animation person
will tell your stop motion, especially where it's like you
work it eight hours a day for four days in
a row and at the end of it you've got
the three seconds of animation, you know, or something like that.
So having a four track at home was just a
good way to you know, and withdrawing and painting too,
(44:51):
it's just like you're taking it's just taking a while.
So having a four track at home and a little
like piano and loop pedals to mess around with. At
the end of your two hours, you have a bunch
of stuff on a tape that you can play back
and you can mess with. So that was I would
say that music was like it was a way to
get a quicker result than animation.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Yeah, I'm curious if the way that you work out
musical ideas has that changed from when you first started
working with four tracks to now? Is do you sort
of approach it in the same way or has your
process changed now that you have more experience.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
It's totally the same. It's completely the same. I'll either
here here a melody, I'll beatbox something into a voice
note sor sing into a voice note and then if
I'm going to, you know, at the time, take it
to a four track. It's kind of just it's it's
(45:55):
really the same of making a just a vocal sketch
of something and then layer fleshing it out with you know,
just instrumentation or you know, any kind of sound. I
would say, actually, yeah, it's come back around to being
closer to what it was when I started making four
(46:17):
track stuff. I feel like just over the years making
stuff with the band, my thinking about writing started to
include and leave space for you know, like I would
have a part of a song where I'd be like,
I don't I don't really know what to do over there,
but I know that Kip is going to have twelve
(46:40):
ideas for that and that's going to be a great
I want to hear what he wants to do there
and or Jaliel can do something here, or I know
Dave is going to have a billion ideas for this.
So I think the like, now it's gone just for
this stretch of you know, my record and just how
I'm writing now without without the guys, It's gone back to,
(47:01):
you know, the way it was before, or where I
was like I at least have to make I got
to make a more detailed sketch, you know, and it's
all me, you know, it's all yeah, for better or
for worse, Like the good and bad decisions are all
are all mine?
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Are there any decisions that made it to this album
that you presented to TV on the radio that got
shot down? And now you're like, Okay, I finally get
to do that idea.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
There were songs that just didn't get not not shut down.
But there's sometimes where you know, like when we did
get together record, there would be a lot of songs,
like a lot of a lot of starts. I feel
like the I feel like seeds and nine types of Light.
You know, we after a few rounds of eliminating what
(47:51):
people liked and what we thought was going to make
it on to the record, Like, there would just be
points where we everyone would make their choices and we'd
have thirty songs left and just like we got to
like get that to ten, you know, and get rid
of that.
Speaker 5 (48:03):
So there are of that seems like a great problem
to have, though kind of yeah, like how do you know?
Speaker 4 (48:11):
Well, it's I think it becomes obvious because people just
start gravitating to the ten or twelve songs that are
going to make it onto the record, or you know,
we'll have a meeting and just say I actually want
to finish this, So can we put more time into
this than if it's a lost cause? It's a lost cause,
but like you know what, when you give it, give
(48:31):
it a second.
Speaker 5 (48:32):
Very nice. Okay, one last question, I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
I saw Twisters the other night, And I'm curious how
your character very much surprised me because I had seen pictures,
I'd seen still shots of you, and like the I
thought you were going to be like an archaeologist, but
you are sort of like the YouTube hill Billy and
the YouTube Hillbilly Crew.
Speaker 5 (48:54):
Yeah exactly, the slash burning Man, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Exactly, the gigantic weather nerd.
Speaker 5 (49:02):
Yes. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
I guess now, like, how have the roles that are
coming to you chain and how has your ambition with
acting change now that you've been doing it for so long,
And I guess as you get older, you must like
the roles must be different.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (49:23):
Absolutely. I mean it's it's weird with me because I've
done it. It's funny when things come up or you know,
something will come out and someone will very just like,
oh is this the first thing you've done. It's like,
did you do a lot of acting? And I looked
at it just recently and I was just like, yeah,
I'm doing it for like, oh twenty years.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Yeah, but you know, in.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
Kind of fits and starts because of bandwork and you know,
and things.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
But I love, I love doing it, and I think
generally I like anybody.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
I like the opportunity to kind of get into the
head of somebody who's a little bit off kilter for me,
like when something comes up and I don't know if
the expression of that comes through in these characters, but
it's it's always, it's never I feel like I'm thinking
(50:21):
about it now. It's like, I don't really feel like
I've been given like a lot of leeway to give
my input.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
To these characters.
Speaker 5 (50:31):
And that's nice.
Speaker 4 (50:33):
Yeah, it's been really nice. No, I feel really lucky
to have worked with the people I've worked with. Yeah,
like with Twisters, like Isaac Chung who you know, who's
the director? The character was like it was really there's
no description of this character in the script.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
They're just like this is this person.
Speaker 4 (50:52):
So if we got to Oklahoma and I said town,
I was just like, so what do you who do
you think this guy is?
Speaker 1 (50:57):
And like what are you looking for? You know essentially,
And he said.
Speaker 4 (51:01):
Was there anything that you've really, like ever just wanted
to do in a you know, like in a role
or a movie. And I was like, yeah, but also
what do you want me to do? Yes, because that
would be a good place to start. But he really
was just like just you know, like take a second
with it and like write down here you think this
guy is. And I was like, he's a weather nerd,
(51:23):
he's a metal head. He loves Lenny, that's why he cut.
He has these lamb chops. He's got this weird mutton
chop thing going on. He draws fantasy barbarian art for commissions.
Speaker 5 (51:34):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
It must be interesting too as an actor to go
from playing like a love interest to now your cast
as a father in this skeleton career doesn't know you know,
it's like the world now sees you different totally.
Speaker 4 (51:48):
That is pretty interesting. There's definitely, uh, it's it's funny.
I've definitely had a few moments with these, Like last
couple of projects.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah, I was in I was in the first.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
Version of a show that got entirely scrapped and and
remade and put out. I was not in the final version,
but it was definitely a moment where I looked around
and I was just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
I'm like the second oldest person in the cast. Yeah,
and it wasn't you know.
Speaker 4 (52:18):
And it was also like in Twisters a little bit,
but Skeleton Crew.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Like obviously because it's kids.
Speaker 4 (52:24):
But yeah, my daughter loves the show too's she finally
respects me.
Speaker 5 (52:30):
Do you get recognized by kids?
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Yeah, they're kids at are schoold or yeah? Who are now?
Speaker 4 (52:36):
Yeah? Who? I seen the show and like this show?
Which is that show was engineered? I feel Adam by
Adam for kids their age. Yeah, every kid that age
I know who's seen is just like which is great,
(52:57):
which is so great, so fun to do.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
Awesome, Thank you so much, Tuned. I'm sorry for I
know I took up a lot of your time, but
it's so great.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
It's awesome talking to you, so.
Speaker 5 (53:07):
Great to connect with you. And yeah, have fun with
the new album.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Thanks Litely, is awesome to talk to you.
Speaker 5 (53:13):
Finally, you too.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
Thanks again to Tunday out of MPE for talking about
his creative life and the making of his new solo project,
The Black Bolts.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
You can hear a favorite.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
Tunda and TV on the radio songs on your playlist
at Broken Record podcast dot com, and be sure to
follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You
can follow us on Twitter at broken Record Broken Record
is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
(53:48):
love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to
Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers
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a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions.
And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast app Our themes expect
(54:09):
any beats.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Justin Richmond, mm hmm,
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Tunday at Abimpe is a creative powerhouse. He's a cartoonist,
a painter, a director, a Hollywood actor, and for the
past twenty years, he's been the lead singer of the
band TV on the Radio. His latest offering, another of
his many artistic pursuits, is a solo project called The
Black Bolts. Tunday began writing these songs back in twenty nineteen,
(00:41):
and after a stint composing music for the PBS kids
show City Island with producer Wilder Zobie, the two decided
to set their sights on Tunday's growing collection of solo songs.
Bul Chu, Leo Bunten and Joah Fittlandis of TV on
the Radio also contributed to the album, which sounds every
bit as fresh and thrilling as Tunday's past work. On
today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Tunday out A Bempe
(01:03):
about how stain steeped in creative projects keeps him sane.
He also recalls his day's work and as a stop
motion artists on MTV Celebrity Deathmatch, and why he thinks
TV on the Radio isn't cool enough to be considered
INDI sleas this is broken record, real musicians, real conversations.
(01:28):
Here's Leah Rose's conversation with Tunday out of Bempe.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So I have I have a theory about how you
came to record to finally put out this solo album.
So I saw that in the not so distant past
you learned how to mix, how to master, how to produce,
and you started sort of like messing around in ableton
and you know, you had been in TV on the
(01:56):
radio for over twenty years, So was was you learning
how to technically use those tools? Was that what kind
of like pushed you to do your own project?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Not exactly. I think I went into that.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I went to this, yeah, this place a friend taught
at this school dub Spot, which I think has gone now,
and did some you know, just just kind of getting
my head around able to end mixing and mastering.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And I think it was more so.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
I wouldn't have to wait for us all get together
while I was making something as a band, and I
could just be like send people stuff and be like
here's a stronger basis for this and you can fuck
around with it or do whatever. But I will also
say that one of the things that experience taught me of,
at least as far as the mixing and mastering end
(02:56):
of it, is that like, I absolutely am not the
person who should be doing that with any of my
own stuff. I can do it, but it's it would
take me. There are things that you know, I'm working
with Wilder right now.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Who is just.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
He is however he would put it, I'm telling you
that he's he's He's a person who's fluent, you know,
doing that. And I'm a person who, like, if I
am pushed to, I will sit there and do it myself.
But it is not it's not that end of it
is not like I'm more a person who's making tons
(03:36):
and tons and tons of voice notes and then taking
those and making demos from them and right and then
kind of like sitting with someone and fleshing things out
and leading, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Like I feel like the it's it's a skill to
to tag in the right people.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
Forever, yeah, and just be like you were great at that,
You're great at that, You're great at that, and I
want you to do that, you know, in conjunction with
this with.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
This p.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So how did you meet Wilder? What
have you known him for a while or how did
that relationship?
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Yeah, and then Wilderford for a really really long time.
I think we probably met like nineteen ninety eight or something.
I just had a lot of mutual friends and just
bands playing around in New York like Brooklyn on the
Lower East Side, but have just been like, you know,
(04:37):
really been friends forever and it never worked together. And
he you know, he does a lot of work with
Run the Jewels and other projects, and actually got a
gig doing a soundtrack for a kids show on PBS
called City Island. One of my my degenerate animator friends
(05:00):
from MTV as we all grew up is now just
an incredibly h generous and peaceful and wonderful person who
wants to put good things into the end of the
world and made an awesome kids show to soundtrack it.
And so I kind of I called Wilder to kind
(05:23):
of like you know, the split the there's a lot
of a lot of music, and just said, would you
want to like work on this.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Thing with me?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
And we started doing that just as as a gig,
and just kind of halfway through it, i'd been you know,
I put these demos that I've been working on for
my own thing of these songs that I thought could
turn into something else aside, and I started thinking about
them again and I just let him know. I was
just like, if you want to tribe something on some
of these, please be my guest, and you know, just
(05:52):
like another thing to do. And he worked on two
songs and sent them to me, just like even in
the most like skeletal form, and I basically was like,
if if we can do this entire record ourselves together
right here, because it was funny because we developed this
(06:14):
working relationship. This is kind of nine to five get
we gotta get these notes in, like we got to
do all this stuff for PBS kids. Yeah, so then
it was a pretty natural jump to just working on
these songs together kind of with the same attitude. The
funny thing of working for a show or SOUNDTRACKINGCAU someone's like,
(06:35):
you know, someone will call you about something you spend
two days working on. Just be like this is great,
except all of it's wrong and you have to have
to change everything, and you just realize very quickly that
you can't get attached to anything. You just have to
It's hard, but again, it's also kind of freeing in
a way because you're it's this thing of like as
long as it sounds right in the end. The there's
(06:59):
a lot of hold up I find, either recording with
the band or just other projects, there can be a
lot of pausing going like ah, I'm not sure about this,
Like you know, it's not even before something's done. There
can be a lot of hesitation and I feel.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
So that's definitive feedback.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yes, definitive feedback.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
And it's also sort of like I know that this
can go a million different ways and none of them
are wrong and none of them are right. It's just
kind of like, you know, do something, does it feel okay?
Not sure about it? Step away for a bit. But
also we had a while working on the record, we
had a code for going back in and working on
(07:40):
something or leaving it alone, and it was the code
was is this dry paint or is this wet paint?
And there were it's great to have someone to bounce
something off of where you're like, no, I really want
to go back and fix that, and they're sort of like,
I think it's dry paint. And then you got to
walk around for a second and just come back and
be like, actually you're right, I don't need to mess
with that. And it's fine that I feel a little
(08:02):
uncomfortable about it, because we'll see that's the whole part
of putting something out too, is like that's it's for
It's a circuit for someone else to complete in a
lot of ways. Yeah, right, Like this is this all
these spots on the record that I'm not sure about.
First off, no one's ever going.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
To know, no one, Yeah no.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
And also, like when you're talking about engineering, like I
wonder if I'm sort of fascinated by engineering because I
don't think I have the tools to really distinguish, you know,
like if something you know, people listen to albums like
oh this is mixed so well, and I'm like, oh yeah,
Like I wonder if if you were to just mix
(08:46):
the album, like would it sound wildly different? But now
you know, because you sort of have you've seen the
back end.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Sure.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
I mean, if I were first off, it was if
it was just going to be me mixing it, it
wouldn't be done by no, it would just be it
just would not and it wouldn't be good. I'm just
I'm safely I can safely say.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
I'm not like it would be muddy, or.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
It would be muddy, and it would be I would
scrap a lot of things out of frustration that someone
who just that wilder would be like, no, just do
this and this and this and keep working on it
and it's done.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
Yeah. So I think most of the stuff that I
was uncertain about on the record between the two of
us would be more kind of aesthetic choices. Yes's sort
of like, I don't know if this.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
With me.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Sometimes it would be lyrics and I would just say, like,
I like, I'm eighty percent on these lyrics, thinking like
this all lands really well for me and makes some
kind of sense because you know, you say with something
forever and you're sort of like, are these words anymore?
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Oh totally.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
But it's but again, it's like there's some things where
you're sort of I feel like with TV on the radio,
I would sit there for a very long time and
to obsess over certain things lyrically, just because it's there
was a there was something I don't know that was
(10:21):
that was a mode of being in all of that,
Whereas with this, I feel like I didn't obsess a
lot about things, and if I felt myself going in
to do that because ultimately it also doesn't really matter
that much at.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
The Yeah, exactly, it's me here. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
And also I feel like with TV on the radio,
it was sort of after a point you realize you're
writing something that you're gonna have to sing literally hundreds
of times, and so kind of like which is a
bad way for me. I would say that's a bad
way to think about writing anything, you know, like anticipating
(11:03):
the torture of like saying this stuff that you thought
was stupid before you recorded it, and now you're like, now
it's stupid in public and it's great.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Well, is there anything any songs that now when you're
performing them hundreds of times that you're like, oh, I
wish that I would have changed that.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
There are two answers, and both of them are no.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
The first first, the first part of it is I
think I've been and it's worked out.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I don't we don't play those songs.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Oh good call, you just don't.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Play and there but there are a couple of songs
where just on stage, if I had a lyric that
I thought was better that I never recorded, I'll just
sing that one.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Oh it doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
Great, Yeah, feel those are two brilliant fixes.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Yeah, don't do it or bend reality.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yes, I wanted to ask you about the title the
Black Bolts.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
How did you come upon that?
Speaker 4 (12:07):
I came upon it just it just came out of
a lot of free writing. I'll just write, like just
to shake the shake the garbage can or the brain
out in the morning, just free write whatever and look
at it a few weeks later and think, are these lyrics?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Is this nothing? Am I crazy? Whatever?
Speaker 4 (12:27):
And that was in there and the essentially it's the
idea of a point of illumination in some heavy darkness,
and the idea of lightning actually realized, like a lot
of the songs ended up having this this mentioned of
lightning or theme of lightning, and started to feel like
(12:51):
the Black Bolts are. There is a spark of inspiration
that can come in the middle of a very heavy
time or a depression or events that kind of seemed
to you know, obscure, obscure the good things from from
your sight, but you know the whole You know, thunderclouds
can generate bolt of electricity that illuminates the whole landscape
(13:15):
and for at least for a second, you can see,
like the beauty and it the tragedy in it, you know,
all aspects of it, and maybe maybe feel better about
the you know, and actually appreciate that that darkness of
it too.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yeah, it made me think it's very evocative, the title,
and it made me think that maybe you're making a
metal album.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I would. I mean, that's the other part of it.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
As I was kind of finishing it up, I was like,
this is a very good name for a metal band. Yeah,
and maybe I'm a metal band.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Now. Maybe that's fat to do, but yeah, now I
feel like it's.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
A it's a good It definitely works, and it stuck
as something that was like a good Like I think
I before I even started putting songs in order or
knew that I was making a record, I kind of
had that as the a guiding a guiding theme and
guiding set away.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
What is the feeling in you when you realize like, oh, okay,
I'm about to put out an album.
Speaker 5 (14:20):
Are you excited? Are you nervous? Are you a little bit?
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Like?
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Do you get self conscious.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
With this? I feel like.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
I was around it for so long because it just
kind of got done and kind of and fits and starts.
I've been working on it from the end of twenty
nineteen until last spring. Wow, I feel like just you know,
with a lot of interruptions, but I feel like that's
(14:54):
kind of the timeline of all of those songs being created.
So I right now, I just feel relieved that it's
actually going to, you know, get away from me and
out into the world. Can kind of see what that does.
And I feel like again, another part of working on
(15:15):
it for such a long time is that I'm not
too attached or detached from any of the songs or
the record. I just feel like it's a really it
has the feeling of we made something that feels like
a really good gift, and now it's time to give
(15:36):
it away and it's up to.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Whoever gets it.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Whoever gets it physically or mentally or emotionally, it's for them. No.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
After quick break, we're back with more from Leo Rose's
conversation with Tundai out of Binbai.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
There's a lot of life that happens between twenty nineteen
and now. Oh totally was there like seasons in your life?
Are things you were going through that are you know,
whether it's like personally or professionally that showed up on
this album for you.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Oh, definitely the I mean, the biggest thing was.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Basically I started writing these demos in twenty nineteen when
TV on the Radio took a break, and then when
I started to really get into it and decide like, Okay,
I'm gonna maybe look around for some producers to collaborate
with or some folks that collaborate with the pandemic hit
(16:38):
and it was kind of like, I'm not looking around
to do anything with anybody because everybody's freaked out and
at home trying to figure things out. So that was
kind of a rocky beginning to that. But during that time,
you know, wrote a couple of songs and edging into
(16:59):
the end of twenty twenty, had shopped some things around.
Like nobody wanted to do anything because I think there
was a lot of uncertainty, But there were a lot
of labels who were kind of like, yeah, we're not
really trying to get anybody on our label right now.
We don't know what's going to I think it was
the uncertainty about touring and how people would like make
(17:21):
a return on their investment. But that was definitely a
that was a humbling experience. It was like, oh right,
it's not two thousand and eight. Nobody cares nobody, nobody
cares about what I'm making and that's fine, which is fine,
but you know, kind of got it together, put some
(17:41):
more demos together, and thought about Subpop because they are
one of the labels that made me deeply interested in music,
and also.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Just the really.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Foundational feeling of you can you don't have to be
of virtuo, so you can make whatever you want, just
finish it. You know, it's kind of the the mode
and you also you know, it's it's very expansive.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Yeah, it was a lot of teenage teenage.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Jet fuel from Subpop for me and Yeah, so we
finally called them and they essentially said, it'd be so
great to work with you. We wanted to work with
you and the band forever, which was not a piece
of information that made it to me until I was
talking to them. I was just like, if you if
I'd known that, like, you know, a long while ago,
(18:36):
it probably would have happened. So they were really very
down for it, and two weeks after I signed with
them and they were, you know, into making the record.
My sister, my younger sister passed away very very suddenly,
like out of nowhere, and this is the person who,
(18:57):
I will say, without any hesitation, was like easily the
most important person to me in my life, you know,
like sorry everyone, sorry, everybody else. Yeah, that's that's the
that's the the case. Sorry, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah. It was heavy, you know, really a bizarre thing.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
She was not you know, was not ill, was not
There was no lead up to it, so that, you know,
going from I've got this record to make, I just signed,
and like people are expecting something in a matter of
months going to I don't want to do anything like
at all. I have to actually stop doing almost anything
(19:43):
and just kind of you know, like regroup and take
some time, you know, to actually process a lot of that,
because that was one of those things, you know, and
during I think people had a lot of time to
think in the thicker pandemic.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Of just like what is my.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Life still and think and have and they're they're also
I think during that time there were a couple of
other losses that I hadn't really processed that had happened
in the last ten years, and I realized I hadn't
really processed them because I was essentially in this band
(20:25):
that was putting out a record and going on tour
and putting out a record and going on tour, putting
out a record and going on tour, and then pandemic
hits and this big loss hits, and it's a lot
of just kind of not I don't know if not
running away is the right way to put it, but
just suddenly having time and in that, you know, in
(20:46):
the negative space of that time, all of this stuff
comes rushing in and you have there's no opportunity for
you to not think about it. So that was a
big My sister passing was a big thing. But the
other side of that is, you know, this person is
such a humongous inspiration to me. The thing that they
(21:09):
would want me to do, Yes, to keep going and
and writing and do yeah, do the thing that like,
you know, my sister also was a musician and and acted,
and just do the thing that bonded over and keep going.
And she would be like, don't you can't. You cannot
(21:30):
fucking quit because then you would be a loser. She's like,
and we are not losers.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
We don't.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Our family doesn't do that. So there's this There is
a song on the on the record that's dedicated to her.
The record is dedicated to her and and to other
family members.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
That which song is that I can see the track
list on Spotify.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
It's all great out. We can't hear it, but we
can see it.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It's the song it's just called It's called il y
just I love you.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
Oh yeah, yeah, very very simple note to her and
to thank you to her.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
So how has the grief evolved now that it's you've
had a little bit of time, You know.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
If you've experienced it pretty significant loss, you know that
it doesn't it just it gets better in some ways.
But more than that, I think it just changes and
it it sinks. It sinks into a place where it's
on the level as on the same level as the
(22:29):
positive memories of this person or the positive aspects of
of your life. But I will say that making something
that feels like you're you know, that's a tribute to
these people that you love, or an offering to these people,
to the spirits of these people that you that you
(22:50):
love and lost, is it really? At least for me,
is was very therapeutic. And I don't I don't think.
I don't think art always has to be that at all,
but in this case, for me, it definitely, it definitely was,
you know, and it was something to do besides the
any number of horrible things that you could be doing
(23:13):
to yourself totally to avoid pain or grief.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, No, being constructive and continuing to work seems like
it could have a big benefit.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
And it seems like you have like a really healthy
work ethic, And it sounds like your sister did as well.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
She definitely more than me. But yeah, when I get
around to it, I've got I've got a.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Pretty health Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Where do you think the drive comes from?
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
I feel like it's kind of like what else am
I gonna do? There's a lot of it. And I
think if you conditioned yourself to put your whether you
know you're doing it or not.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
To put your.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Messy feelings or bombastic feelings or basically any way, that
you kind of can't be in this Like you can't
run around screaming your head off about you know, how
wronged you've been, you know, by someone, or how excited
you are, or how you can revel in the nonsense
(24:22):
of this world and events and people and feelings. But
I think if you just through making art, if you
kind of if that's your way of processing the world
or making yes, that's your anchor in the world, is
to be like at least I can write it down,
or at least I can draw it, or at least
I can get a few friends together and make a
(24:44):
short film about it. Then all of it kind of
makes sense. All of the shit that doesn't make sense,
this is a place for it to make its own.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Kind of sense.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
When you guys, So, when TV on the Radio first
started making music together, how long did it take for
you to sound like TV on the Radio?
Speaker 4 (25:04):
I feel like it's debatable because I I feel like
there's so many different ways to sound like TV on
the Radio and it kind.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Of kept evolving.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
It did.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Hopefully we'll keep evolving.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
But you know, the first thing that came out under
the name TV on the Radio is pretty like probably
a few months after Dave and I met Dave Sidek.
When I met, we both had all these four track
tapes just weirdo stuff that we'd made, and when that
was kind of our point of like, you know, meeting
(25:41):
and friendship is that we were both painters and both
like made silly four track stuff or not so silly
four track stuff. And that was a compilation of that
four track stuff, which was all over the place and
some songs that were a little more I guess, like
quote unquote produced that we made together. And to me
(26:02):
that sounded like TV on the radio. It's like, this
can be recorded in a basement with like one mic,
or it can be recorded in like a super cheap
studio with you know, equipment present. And then and then
with the Young Liar's EP, it got more real bandy yeah,
and that to me is also like you know, that's
(26:23):
to me, I guess would be the a solid a
solid version of the first iteration of a TV on
the radio sign and then desperate youth. Like we didn't
know what we were doing, so it was kind of like, is.
Speaker 5 (26:37):
That why there's like two titles for the album?
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Well, yeah, yeah, it's that, And just like I feel
like in a lot of ways, it was a step
backwards because we didn't know what we were doing. Not
in a bad way really, but just like kind of
in a way of like, well what are we doing?
Because we went from working occasionally on this thing that
turned into an EP that might have been a longer record,
except that someone heard it and wanted to put it
(27:00):
out and then yeah, they're like, we're giving you a
record deal, so let's make the next thing right now,
and we're sort of like, I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
It's like, I don't know how to you know, Like.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
At least my my observation from it was there was
a certain amount of new panic about what needed to
happen and ideas about what it should be, and all.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Of that was that like inner band conversations or from
the outside.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I think from both.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Just what should this be now instead of just making
it and saying that's what it is, you know, because
what should this be? As a real waste of time, yeah,
you don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
But then after that.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Cookie Mountain became that's when you know, we we we
locked in. We locked ourselves in and we locked in,
and then that turned into a new iteration of the sound.
But I, you know, I guess I would I would
probably say, like the first EP was pretty pretty locked
down at least on on the recordings.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
Did you do you like it? The first EP?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I really liked it?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Yeah, which was no, it was and it's a real
you know it marks a certain spot in time, just
like emotionally and yeah, just feeling feeling wise, it's I
actually haven't listened to I haven't listened to anything that
we've done in its entirety, Like I'll listen to it
(28:39):
when it's done being mixed and mastered probably I'll listen
to everything the whole way through, but I haven't looked,
so I haven't listened to Young Liars like since in
its entirety since it came out, But.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
So why not just like throw it on one day?
Like it's what's the why not listen to it?
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Because I feel like that you know that the touch
was that.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
There's a Christopher Walking Home movie is it the Dead
Zone where touches people and suddenly like flood of emotions
and like you can see everything that's happened to them
and will happen to them. It's kind of like that
where it's like, oh, something like oh this is good,
and then I'll like hear one thing and just be like, oh,
what a terrible time that was where I did this
and did that and all that.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
But it's less and less. But if I hear it
when it's on, if it's on somewhere.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Yeah, Like I'm never like, I'm very rarely am I
cringing about it?
Speaker 5 (29:34):
Oh that's good.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Yeah, But I like I like the fact that we,
you know, we got it together and made this thing
that didn't I know that people just like, you know,
it's like, well, doesn't sound like anything else. And I
was like, but that's the point, Like, no one should
sound like anything else.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
It's so good.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
But it's it was also so good be able to make,
you know, get it together with your friends and make
something that sounded like good and fresh and new to
and honest, you know.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
To you and you knew it was fresh and new
when you were making it. Did you have perspective?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Will? The perspective was kind of.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
And it was weird because it was I think the
perspective was it was very shortly after September eleventh that
we started making that would ended up being that EP,
And I think the deal was this is the this
is the most important thing to us right now, is
that we can we can create this reality that we
(30:36):
can swim in and live in and like energize ourselves with.
So it was a you know, for as much of
a whatever that whatever mood that that EP puts people in.
It was definitely it was an odd kind of pick
me up for all of us to work This is
you know, this is something something we have control over
(30:58):
and it's also something that like we can do anything with.
So that was a real that's that's that feeling was
inspiring working on.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Oh, totally. Yeah, empowering.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Yeah, that's a similar to what you were saying about
the grief with your new album is having sort of
some you know, like a creative life raft at the time,
something to focus on and something to pour you know,
pour yourself into and.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Process emotion through.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah, that's awesome. That's a great thing, great thing to have.
I saw when I was just like getting ready for
this interview, I saw that Spotify, you know, Spotify makes
different playlists and they have a cover image for the playlists,
and I saw that TV on the Radio is the
cover image for the Indie Sleeves playlist. Really, yes, right now?
(31:54):
What does that make sure it's your new it's a
new promo picture.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, it's Is it a black and white picture?
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Might be.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
That's where the we're the delegates from Indie Sleeves.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Yes, So I'm wondering now that, like, you know, I
don't know if you saw that yacht.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Rock documentary, No, I want to.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
It's really great, but it turns out a lot of
people who were considered yacht rock, which is a term
that was made up by like a online comedy group,
a lot of the people who are in that category,
that that genre, you know, don't like that, don't like
that classification. So I'm wondering for you now, sitting where
(32:38):
you're sitting, like, how does how does Indi Sleis sit
in twenty twenty five?
Speaker 5 (32:43):
And was it even real? Is it a thing?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I don't know. I don't Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
I uh, It's really it's interesting to me because I
think when you're in something, it's also very odd because
you like, I'll never have the bird's eye view of
someone who, like, twenty years later can look at whatever
(33:13):
set of images, whatever set of songs or records or
you know, the first person accounts or rock critic reviews, like,
I'll never have that overview. It kind of just my
overview is I started making stuff with my friends, and
we went to see other friends who made stuff with
their friends.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, and we all.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
And no one had a cell phone there wasn't any internet.
We got to we got to kind of we had
really cheap rent and got to make things. Yeah, but
I personally don't feel like our band was cool enough
to be part of the indie sleeves.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
See. I just don't. I don't. I didn't see it.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
But there's also one of those things where people talk
about Electroclash, and I feel like the Electroclash movement was
like five weekends at this bar called Luxe and then
it was that was it.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
It was over, you know, but it was.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
This holding just like Electroclash, like you know, blew through
Blue through New York.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It was this huge movement.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
I was like, at least Williamsburgers.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
So I don't know, it is it's it's funny, it is.
It's funny to me to see that that's a thing
because it makes me think about it makes me think
about Seattle and Grudge and or.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Even like the Summer of Love.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
You know, that was also a pretty short period that
is like, oh my gosh, we're still talking about it.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
And we're still talking about it, and I don't.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
I mean, and I'm sure like if you talk to
someone from when that was happening. They can give you
a list of you know, you felt like something was
going on, but it's also the I feel like with
us and our and I'm you know, I guess like
speaking from myself, but the feeling that all of that
(35:06):
stuff was active and alive and fleet and not something
that like like we're making the stuff that we're gonna
preserve in a glass case and it's gonna stand the
test of time. Like I feel like it was very
much this is immediate moment to moment.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
After one last quick break, we're back with the rest
of Leo Rose's conversation with Tunday out of Bemba.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
I'm sure you you are aware of this, but Wolf,
like me, was playing at the Super Bowl.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Yeah, now, I heard a friend told me that too,
which is was it in a It's It's weird. It's
one of those things where you'll get an email like
like three or four years ago or something saying just
like we're going to use this for a commercial for
fifteen seconds or whatever, and you're like, okay, that's that,
(36:03):
and then you'd have no idea where it shows up.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Is that like a nice check though? Like is that
a good thing?
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I mean, I don't know how many times they played it.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
I think I saw so I looked it up on
Reddit and apparently, I guess Fox NFL plays it in
their broadcasts.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Okay, I mean, is it a nice check? I don't know.
I guess we'll see, but I it's a check.
Speaker 5 (36:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's nice.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
It's a check. It's also like, I don't know, I
got laundry lists, I got subscriptions and issues with all
of that stuff. But I'm glad people are hearing the song.
The vessel isn't always awesome.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, but.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I'm glad people are hearing the song. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Did you have an expectation, because I know, growing up
you've always been into art, You've always drawn. Did you
have an expectation at any point to make money or
was it like a total surprise.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
I think I've always well, I was in an expectation
to have a job. Yeah, to turn it like where
I knew. It's like, this isn't a It's not a
hobby for me, like for better or or worse, because
I'm incapable of doing anything else, you know, like well
or just this is what I've been doing and what
(37:29):
I want to do. But you know, you have examples
that like when I the first thing I thought I
was going to do was make comics, like make underground
comics or you know, at first I think it was
much younger. I was like, I'm going to do a
comic strip like Helvin Hobbs.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Of course, like telling my dad that, who's like an
immigrant from Nigeria who grew up in a village and
worked his way up to being like, you know, a
medical director and a hospital somewhere. He's like, well, how
are you going to make money? Yeah, And I said,
I don't know, I don't know. Do people make money
(38:07):
doing that? He said, of course, And then he would,
you know, actually be like here's the just there's actually
a book in the library that shows what commercial artists make,
and here's what a comic strip artist makes, poor strip.
Here's who you write to to get all this stuff.
And so there was always this idea of just like,
there's a way to make Yeah, this thing I want
(38:28):
to do, like I would, I will have to hustle
and make money doing it. But I also never like
and I Bill, you know, was never There's never any
part of me that was like I'm going to do
this thing and I'm going to make.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
So much money.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Yeah, so much money. And that's exactly why I'm going
to do it, because I'm going to make so much
you know, it's like never it's there's people that I
looked up to who you know, like I said, these
underground comic artists or even like superhero comic artists where
it's just like I make a hundred bucks a page
and I turn in thirty pages and I'm like that,
(39:09):
you know, and you're like fifteen, and you're like that
sounds great.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
You'll realize it's.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Like literally backbreaking work to sit there like a table
for like forever to do that. But you know, there's
always some idea of like I have to turn this
into a job however I can, like I have to
support myself doing this thing. And the idea that like
you also don't like thinking like about make any kind
(39:38):
of being an artist is there's no you don't really retire. Yeah,
Like I don't think there's not a point where I'm
going to be like, Okay, that's it. I did enough
and now I'm going to, like ye sit on the
dock of the bay wasting.
Speaker 5 (39:54):
Time, go to Margaritaville.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
To watch a million a million sunsets. Yeah no, but
but it's.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
The there's there's definitely always a part where it's sort
of like, I want to be doing this creative work.
I want to have this mode of processing, you know,
being alive in events and feelings, and I'd like to
be able to support myself doing that. And if I'm
(40:26):
not able to directly support myself doing this creative work,
I'm going to hustle and find something else to support
that creative work.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
Yep. How did you get a job at Celebrity Deathmatch?
How did that happen? And what were you doing there?
Speaker 4 (40:41):
I was animating. I was making puppets beat the shit
out of each other for a few years. Yeah, making,
That's what I was doing at Deathmatch. And I got
the job because I was at the school in New
York as at NYU, and I went there for live
(41:04):
action directing, and within two years realized that I was
really not it was not a good director because I
didn't feel comfortable telling people what to do.
Speaker 5 (41:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
I would just be like, here's a scenario, just just
like do what you want? Yeah, do you want?
Speaker 4 (41:21):
And I'll just you know, we'll film it and we'll
edit it, and it'll be what it's it'll be what
it's going to be. You know, everyone's like in their
like teens and early twenties and like no one's listening
to each other. And I was kind of like, I
don't want it's just it was it wasn't for me.
And since I you know, like drawing and animating, I
ended up going into stop motion like yeah, my junior,
(41:44):
and uh really like loving it, you know, like I
think I saw the Nightment before Christmas.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
It was kind of just like, oh, yeah, like that,
that's what I want to do. That's that that looks great.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
And so like I ended up, like my my short
film ended up winning an award at the end of
the year, and everyone else was, you know, at that time,
doing really kind of early computer animation as they were graduating,
and they're.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Like, why are you Why are you using puppets.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
You're gonna be broke, You're gonna have to live in
like a basement and Czechoslovakia to like nake, you know,
sort of noone cares about that shit here. And I
was like, yeah, but I care about it, and I
can learn computers later if I know how to do this,
then that'll be fine. And then we all got out
of school. I was I was asked to leave school
because to do my senior project, I stopped going to classes.
(42:35):
It was a whole whole issue, the whole stupid thing.
But it got done. I got out.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
MTV was doing they.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Were just looking for animators for this new new show
that was based on this short that one of the
directors and artists over at MTV Animation made, this guy,
Eric Fogel. So yeah, I sent my tape in and
like went in and you know, they said, can you
come in and talk? And I remember I went in
(43:03):
and we didn't talk about animation at all. He just
said all these weird ass toys in his office. And
I was like, oh, you look, are you like this?
And and I left and I got a call, like,
you know, like two days later that I was hired.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
So it was one of the first eighteen animators on
that show.
Speaker 5 (43:18):
Wow, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
It was good.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
It was like a good boot camp for stop motion
and because you know, you're doing it five days a
week for like, you know, eight hours a day, and
you're sort of like, oh, I'm now I'm making stuff
that people are going to be watching on TV. And
if you you know me even saying that, if you
go back and look at those early episodes, like they're.
Speaker 5 (43:42):
Not good, they're not no like technically or.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
They're yeah, technically now they're Punces in the mill are good.
And that was the thing.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
It was like the sliding scale of people who had
like just got out of school and people doing stop
motion for you know, twenty years.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
It's so specialized.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Yeah, were you in TV on the radio then? Like
was were you just starting to play then? Or was
that did those overlap at all?
Speaker 4 (44:09):
No? I started making four track stuff kind of more
in earnest around, like while I was working at Deathmatch,
pretty much as an antidote to the how tedious that Yeah,
that was yeah to be you know, like the whole
(44:29):
thing of like I mean, you know, like animation person
will tell your stop motion, especially where it's like you
work it eight hours a day for four days in
a row and at the end of it you've got
the three seconds of animation, you know, or something like that.
So having a four track at home was just a
good way to you know, and withdrawing and painting too,
(44:51):
it's just like you're taking it's just taking a while.
So having a four track at home and a little
like piano and loop pedals to mess around with. At
the end of your two hours, you have a bunch
of stuff on a tape that you can play back
and you can mess with. So that was I would
say that music was like it was a way to
get a quicker result than animation.
Speaker 3 (45:16):
Yeah, I'm curious if the way that you work out
musical ideas has that changed from when you first started
working with four tracks to now? Is do you sort
of approach it in the same way or has your
process changed now that you have more experience.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
It's totally the same. It's completely the same. I'll either
here here a melody, I'll beatbox something into a voice
note sor sing into a voice note and then if
I'm going to, you know, at the time, take it
to a four track. It's kind of just it's it's
(45:55):
really the same of making a just a vocal sketch
of something and then layer fleshing it out with you know,
just instrumentation or you know, any kind of sound. I
would say, actually, yeah, it's come back around to being
closer to what it was when I started making four
(46:17):
track stuff. I feel like just over the years making
stuff with the band, my thinking about writing started to
include and leave space for you know, like I would
have a part of a song where I'd be like,
I don't I don't really know what to do over there,
but I know that Kip is going to have twelve
(46:40):
ideas for that and that's going to be a great
I want to hear what he wants to do there
and or Jaliel can do something here, or I know
Dave is going to have a billion ideas for this.
So I think the like, now it's gone just for
this stretch of you know, my record and just how
I'm writing now without without the guys, It's gone back to,
(47:01):
you know, the way it was before, or where I
was like I at least have to make I got
to make a more detailed sketch, you know, and it's
all me, you know, it's all yeah, for better or
for worse, Like the good and bad decisions are all
are all mine?
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Are there any decisions that made it to this album
that you presented to TV on the radio that got
shot down? And now you're like, Okay, I finally get
to do that idea.
Speaker 4 (47:26):
There were songs that just didn't get not not shut down.
But there's sometimes where you know, like when we did
get together record, there would be a lot of songs,
like a lot of a lot of starts. I feel
like the I feel like seeds and nine types of Light.
You know, we after a few rounds of eliminating what
(47:51):
people liked and what we thought was going to make
it on to the record, Like, there would just be
points where we everyone would make their choices and we'd
have thirty songs left and just like we got to
like get that to ten, you know, and get rid
of that.
Speaker 5 (48:03):
So there are of that seems like a great problem
to have, though kind of yeah, like how do you know?
Speaker 4 (48:11):
Well, it's I think it becomes obvious because people just
start gravitating to the ten or twelve songs that are
going to make it onto the record, or you know,
we'll have a meeting and just say I actually want
to finish this, So can we put more time into
this than if it's a lost cause? It's a lost cause,
but like you know what, when you give it, give
(48:31):
it a second.
Speaker 5 (48:32):
Very nice. Okay, one last question, I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
I saw Twisters the other night, And I'm curious how
your character very much surprised me because I had seen pictures,
I'd seen still shots of you, and like the I
thought you were going to be like an archaeologist, but
you are sort of like the YouTube hill Billy and
the YouTube Hillbilly Crew.
Speaker 5 (48:54):
Yeah exactly, the slash burning Man, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Exactly, the gigantic weather nerd.
Speaker 5 (49:02):
Yes. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 3 (49:04):
I guess now, like, how have the roles that are
coming to you chain and how has your ambition with
acting change now that you've been doing it for so long,
And I guess as you get older, you must like
the roles must be different.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (49:23):
Absolutely. I mean it's it's weird with me because I've
done it. It's funny when things come up or you know,
something will come out and someone will very just like,
oh is this the first thing you've done. It's like,
did you do a lot of acting? And I looked
at it just recently and I was just like, yeah,
I'm doing it for like, oh twenty years.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Yeah, but you know, in.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
Kind of fits and starts because of bandwork and you know,
and things.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
But I love, I love doing it, and I think
generally I like anybody.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
I like the opportunity to kind of get into the
head of somebody who's a little bit off kilter for me,
like when something comes up and I don't know if
the expression of that comes through in these characters, but
it's it's always, it's never I feel like I'm thinking
(50:21):
about it now. It's like, I don't really feel like
I've been given like a lot of leeway to give
my input.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
To these characters.
Speaker 5 (50:31):
And that's nice.
Speaker 4 (50:33):
Yeah, it's been really nice. No, I feel really lucky
to have worked with the people I've worked with. Yeah,
like with Twisters, like Isaac Chung who you know, who's
the director? The character was like it was really there's
no description of this character in the script.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
They're just like this is this person.
Speaker 4 (50:52):
So if we got to Oklahoma and I said town,
I was just like, so what do you who do
you think this guy is?
Speaker 1 (50:57):
And like what are you looking for? You know essentially,
And he said.
Speaker 4 (51:01):
Was there anything that you've really, like ever just wanted
to do in a you know, like in a role
or a movie. And I was like, yeah, but also
what do you want me to do? Yes, because that
would be a good place to start. But he really
was just like just you know, like take a second
with it and like write down here you think this
guy is. And I was like, he's a weather nerd,
(51:23):
he's a metal head. He loves Lenny, that's why he cut.
He has these lamb chops. He's got this weird mutton
chop thing going on. He draws fantasy barbarian art for commissions.
Speaker 5 (51:34):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (51:36):
It must be interesting too as an actor to go
from playing like a love interest to now your cast
as a father in this skeleton career doesn't know you know,
it's like the world now sees you different totally.
Speaker 4 (51:48):
That is pretty interesting. There's definitely, uh, it's it's funny.
I've definitely had a few moments with these, Like last
couple of projects.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah, I was in I was in the first.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
Version of a show that got entirely scrapped and and
remade and put out. I was not in the final version,
but it was definitely a moment where I looked around
and I was just like, oh.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
I'm like the second oldest person in the cast. Yeah,
and it wasn't you know.
Speaker 4 (52:18):
And it was also like in Twisters a little bit,
but Skeleton Crew.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Like obviously because it's kids.
Speaker 4 (52:24):
But yeah, my daughter loves the show too's she finally
respects me.
Speaker 5 (52:30):
Do you get recognized by kids?
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Yeah, they're kids at are schoold or yeah? Who are now?
Speaker 4 (52:36):
Yeah? Who? I seen the show and like this show?
Which is that show was engineered? I feel Adam by
Adam for kids their age. Yeah, every kid that age
I know who's seen is just like which is great,
(52:57):
which is so great, so fun to do.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
Awesome, Thank you so much, Tuned. I'm sorry for I
know I took up a lot of your time, but
it's so great.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
It's awesome talking to you, so.
Speaker 5 (53:07):
Great to connect with you. And yeah, have fun with
the new album.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Thanks Litely, is awesome to talk to you.
Speaker 5 (53:13):
Finally, you too.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
Thanks again to Tunday out of MPE for talking about
his creative life and the making of his new solo project,
The Black Bolts.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
You can hear a favorite.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
Tunda and TV on the radio songs on your playlist
at Broken Record podcast dot com, and be sure to
follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You
can follow us on Twitter at broken Record Broken Record
is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help
from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you
(53:48):
love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to
Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers
bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety nine
a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions.
And if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,
and review us on your podcast app Our themes expect
(54:09):
any beats.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Justin Richmond, mm hmm,
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