October 7, 2024 • 46 mins
Rob, Matt, and Wolf are joined by Max Starks for this week's episode and the group recaps the Steelers loss to the Cowboys in primetime
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Steelers Point After show on wdb E Pittsburgh,
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(00:21):
And now here are your hosts, Rob King, Craig Wolfley,
and Matt Williamson.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well, thanks everybody for being with us for the Point
After on the Steelers Audio Network. We're so gloomy and
so down that we needed somebody to pick us up.
So we're also joined today by Max Starks, who could
I think actually physically pick us all up at one time.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, yeah, definitely in the past in the past. You
know what I can do now, I can carry the wheelbarrow.
I can just put you in there. That's my closest
to picking up now.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
You know that would be nice.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
We'd like that because we all need to be lifted
up after this loss to the Dallas Cowboys. Our first
reaction is brought to you by First National Bank. Let's
get started member fdi C.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
So full disclosure.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I was on This Morning with Max, and I was
on This Morning with Wolf, and I've also listened to
Matt Williamson's podcast. So but I have not heard from
Matt Williamson in person. So Matt, why don't you start
us off with your impressions your first reaction on what
you saw last night?
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Well, if we want to put a Rosie spin on it,
you didn't play close to your best game as a team,
and you were still in it to the absolute final play.
I think there's something to be said for that. But
relying on massive, timely splash plays on defense is a really,
really tough way to live in this league. You know,
red zone turnovers, block kicks, things of that nature. And
(01:51):
for the second week in a row, you know, Robin,
you know, you and I do a lot of prep
for these they not that these guys don't, but I
dig into these teams so much the opponent that for
the second week in a row, I kind of thought, man,
I don't see an obvious path where the Colts or
Cowboys could get the better of the Steelers.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
And for two weeks in a row now they have.
Speaker 7 (02:10):
That's where the statistics just drive you crazy, right right,
you can't get too.
Speaker 6 (02:14):
Any you know, there's you know beings.
Speaker 8 (02:17):
Yeah, that's that's that's why they played the game. Well.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You know the other thing, Matt, that I was talking
about this morning that I found a little more disturbing
about this loss was I thought I could have isolated
a lot of plays against the Colts that just didn't
go this to other's way, just kind of dumb luck,
bad things happening, fumbles, bounce the type here and there, interception,
(02:43):
any one of not eight plays that turned the game,
any one of eight plays that could have turned the
game in the students favor where it didn't feel like
the Colts would be walking off the field saying that
at all. I think the Cowboys or the team walking
off this field saying, man, we let it. We left
a lot out there. This game could have gotten lopsided
(03:03):
if they had, you know, not turned the ball over
the red zone, not had a field goal block. This
feels different to me than the Colts loss. This feels like,
wait a minute, now, we might need to regroup a
little bit, because that was not a good way to
go out.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
I like the way you phrased that, because you know,
on offense you had plays to be made downfield that
you missed. It wasn't dallasted something to make you screw
up a long completion, not one run over ten yards
the entire day, you know, in the running game. And
the O line is a work in progress, to be kind.
And then I don't frankly understand the usage of George Pickens.
(03:41):
I mean, when there was two wide receivers on the field,
he only got one snap in those personnel groupings. I mean,
it makes it too easy to play against. They're short
on playmakers right now. But I might blame the defense
more than the offense. I mean they picked a part
the Steelers defense with very little resistance once again, and
I just didn't see that coming.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, And I when I look back at the Colts game,
I thought, Okay, the defense, you know, maybe they did
some things in some drives. And then then the defense
rally and did a really nice job, the offense rallying
did a really nice job, and just some things happened.
You know, there were certainly moments, uh, you know, Max,
and let's go to you next year. In this game
in which you know the Steelers, they you know, they
(04:21):
had the march in the second half that was you know,
they had a very nice touchdown drive that they put up.
But they they the two did not marry together. They
couldn't get enough offense going to get the defense a rest.
They couldn't get enough you know, defensive stops to give
the offense another chance. It just it didn't go hand
in hand in this game.
Speaker 8 (04:41):
No, I think.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I think that also lends itself to the offense not
getting off to a fast start, like the first drive
you got points, but then to get stemied in those moments,
like you said, we still we had the strip sack,
we had we had big plays to be made where
you needed to flip the field and we go three
and out right after that.
Speaker 8 (04:59):
So you don't do anything.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
With that extra stolen possession in the game, and then
by the time you need it in the second half,
the defense is is depleted at that point. I mean,
you think about the passwords. Pass rus was gone. Yep,
you know, once once Herbid got injured on on that
on that hit on on on deck and then now
you had to go to Marvin Leal and then Demarvin
Leo goes out with a stinger. And then and that
(05:22):
was Jeremiah Moon who hadn't played football since the preseason,
and you're asking him to play meaningful plays in the
gut to have a moments and TJ's exhausted at this point,
so he's on the sideline as well.
Speaker 8 (05:33):
And at one point Loudermilk was playing.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Outside back or for us, and we went we shifted
to a four down front because of that. And it
just like you said, it was just two ships passing
in the night, you know, when one was on in
the first half, the other one was completely cold, and
then the other one starts to warm up and the
other one has been flamed out. It was just like
you said. It was just it was not playing complimentary football.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
You know, Wolf, When I look at this game, and
I just look at the drive chart in this game,
and the cow Boys had one drive that had fewer
than six plays. That was their second drive of the
game that resulted in a punt. The Steelers had a
five play drive, a three play drive, a three play drive,
a four play drive, a three play drive.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
They had five that were under six plays.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And you know, we talk about the Steelers offense wanting
to have a cumulative effect.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
You run the game early. You run the ball early.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It might not show up in positive yardage, but you
want to wear the other team down. I think perhaps
what we saw is the offense's inability. Even though Dallas,
you know, they did run the ball more effectively as
the game went on. That's not their approach, but just
being out on the field, you know, getting over to
(06:47):
the sideline and now all of a sudden you're grabbing
your helmet running back out on defense again. That may
have had a cumulative effect on the Steelers. Is this
game more on as well?
Speaker 8 (06:55):
Oh, there's no question.
Speaker 7 (06:56):
I mean, if you look at the possession downs three
of twelve, that's I'm sorry, but that's not winning football.
That's not going to win you many games. And it's
unfortunate because the shots were there and they took shots. Hey,
you know, it's it's like Matt said earlier. You know,
it's not like the Cowboys were doing something that was
you know, negating whatever the Steels were doing that the
(07:17):
throwers were there that you know, but they didn't hook up.
It was either too long or underthrown or something of
that nature. That kept them from being able to capitalize
on on what they were doing, and that's the unfortunate thing.
But if you can't roll chains on third down, you're
gonna in for a long night unless you have some
explosive plays in your in your your bank of plays.
(07:38):
You know, if you're not roll, if you're not getting
explosive plays every now and then, it's it turns into
the you know, the Padan death March there, you know,
And that's essentially what really happened for them.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Max back to you on this because I think you know, uh,
we saw a possession in which the Steelers had second
and short, they got a pre snap penalty, then they
turned it into third and short, and they got another
pre snap penalty, and they're not able to overcome those things.
And the Cowboys had a first and twenty after two
of their own pre snap penalties, and they are built
(08:14):
to overcome that.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I understand that.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I think we all understand that the offenses are built
different ways. And you hope that the Steelers are on
an evolutionary path that's going to get them to the
point where first and twenty is not that big of
a deal. Right now, it feels like it's a big deal.
So separating those moments out to me, you know, I
(08:36):
wanted to ask you and Wolf and Matt where you
think this running game is right now, this ability to
get into those third and manageables. You're going with a
lot of heavy personnel, You've got an offensive line that
you want to wear an opponent down with, and you're
going against a Cowboys defense that's without it's two best players.
(08:57):
I thought the Steelers would be able to do a
better job. And Eric Kendricks is a terrific bental linebacker.
I think they've got a really good young player and
overshown who flies around a lot. But I thought the
Steelers would be able to bring their pressure to bear
on the Cowboys, and it didn't feel to me like
that happened. Do you agree with my assessment and what
(09:17):
needs to happen better?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
If that is the case, all right, so let's attack
this because it's a multi pronged attack on this one.
Speaker 8 (09:24):
Yes, let's start with the latter.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Defensively, we were pressuring and getting to Deak in the
first half, and it was evident by the fact that
he had to switch his jersey at halftime because it
had so much green on the.
Speaker 8 (09:38):
Back of that white jersey.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Second half, like you said, started to heat up the pressure,
you lose a Herbic, started to heat up the pressure.
Speaker 8 (09:46):
You then lose a Demarvin Leal.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Now you're playing cautious because you're like, we don't have
enough bodies, and I get the attrition game. It happens
every year. Is pick your position group. It was inside
linebackers last year, it was the entire secondary a year
before that. Right now it's outside linebackers.
Speaker 6 (10:04):
And running backs and before.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
And now we're dealing with running backs now on the
offensive side of the ball. So I think defensively, they
just ran out of gas. And when they gave you
those plays early, when they blocked the field goal, when
you have two red zone interceptions that help you, you know, sorry,
red zone interception and then also a fumble force fumble
(10:28):
that helps you and you don't do anything with it.
And then the second half you're like, I need more possessions,
like we gave you possessions, and then offensively to attack
that issue, it's the run game is not where it
needs to be because they don't have gel And that's
the easiest way of putting it. You've rolled out different
rotations just about every single week. There's somebody new in
(10:50):
the lineup, so there's no consistency with the offensive line
right now. And I said this earlier in our show.
I need the in a three point stance. I can't
stand a two point stance and run situations on first
and ten. It bothers me. I don't care if the
quarterback it feels comfortable in the shotgun. If you know
you're going to run the ball, it doesn't matter if
(11:12):
the other guy across from you knows that you're going
to run the ball. It's about him stopping me. And
you have to go dictate the fight as opposed to
being reactionary to it. And I think you lose leverage,
you lose power, you lose all of the things that
make a run game effective when you're six inches higher
than you should be at the initial snap of the ball.
(11:32):
And I think that's what leads to them not making
it up to the second level on backers and covering guys,
And why guys slide off on the on the first
level or you turn them loose trying to get to
the second level is because you didn't You didn't get
that guy.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Up at that assessment by by Max Starks. But you know, Matt,
I would expect I still expect more from this running game.
And if you're going to be built this way, you
know you're going against a team that I thought they
would be able to wear down with the running game.
Now again, you know hand in glove right, you don't
get enough going offensively, you don't get the ball back
(12:05):
quickly enough. I think in this instance, even though the
defense in the second half didn't get the job done,
I think it was more a case of attrition. I
would like to see more from the offense as far
as being able to run the ball. You're built to
run the ball. You're going with heavy sets. You have
a big, physical runner, and I know he was dinged
up and had to leave the game for a while,
(12:27):
but it just never felt like the running game got
the traction that it would need to get in a
game like this in order to provide the winning margin.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And the best defense is less defense.
And the Steelers played way too much defense last night,
I mean, and they were shot at the end. I
thought it would be the other way around. I mean,
with Parsons and Lawrence by far their best guys up
front being out for the game, and then niel In
getting get hurt right.
Speaker 8 (12:53):
Off the bat.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
They had seven guys for four spots across their defensive line,
and frankly, besides Lynn Bell Jos who played really well,
I mean he was an anchor in the middle. By
the way, he's in a full grown man, none of
them were super.
Speaker 8 (13:06):
Impressed and a half.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
Yeah, yeah, I mean he's a handful, there's no question.
But between those seven for four spots, I thought they
would wear them down consistently.
Speaker 8 (13:15):
Now.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
I do think we knew that the offensive line, even
in training camp, was going to be a work in progress,
but I don't think any of us thought they would
start four different line combinations and three or four guys
making their first start ever over the course of five games.
And as we mentioned, I mean, the cluster injuries at
running back are certainly a factor. I'm not picking on nausea,
(13:35):
but he doesn't seem to be making any more yardage
than what's blocked. And I would have loved to have
seen a healthy Warren from last year what he could
have done in that situation. But it's a group effort,
and I don't think people scared. Are super scared of
the passing game. You know, you're not backing people off
the line of scrimmage. I keep going back to wys
and pickings on the field war and I think the
offense is becoming too easy to play against.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, you wonder wolf, you know, if you're not able
to run the ball the way you want to sometimes,
I mean, are we seeing teams selling out to stop
the run? Are we seeing teams flying up? And this
is a question I should say this. Bob Briola asked
Mike Tomlin this, and Mike Tomlin said, yeah, he does
(14:19):
think that teams are committing to stop the Steelers run,
but they still are, you know, expect to be able
to run the ball. So is it just a matter
of this or mostly a matter of this offensive line
gelling together, getting some continuity together and also maybe getting
your running back core healthy for this running game to
(14:41):
start to succeed. Or is there more to it?
Speaker 7 (14:44):
No, I really think it's about getting your offensive line
to gel and getting your people back.
Speaker 8 (14:49):
I mean.
Speaker 7 (14:50):
Mike Domlind also referenced the fact of having a primary
and an auxiliary runner and what that means as far
as defensively how you get defensive back filling certain run
lanes on certain downs and distances versus certain personnel packages.
That creates a better opportunity for the auxiliary runner on
third downs and so forth, on draws, screens, things.
Speaker 8 (15:12):
Of that like that. That that that is different, you know.
Speaker 7 (15:15):
So yeah, you know, I'd love to have cordero and
have them a jail and healthy and back again.
Speaker 8 (15:20):
Right now.
Speaker 7 (15:21):
Naji's the guy. Now, he's he's very durable, and he's
he's a punchier in the mouth type guy. But you've
got to be able to script more plays, get him better. Uh,
running lanes open there and that's got to be something. Yeah,
it's got to be more linear if you ask. In
my mind, I'd like to see more traps, you know,
the short traps. He's built for that thing, man, I
(15:43):
mean you you hand that ball off and skidaddle through
one of those two three gaps. Well in my day
we call them. Yeah, I forgot. This is more modern era,
you know. So, but you know that would I think
that would be great and be built. He's, like I said,
built for that sort of thing. But again, remember there
(16:03):
were opportunities there, you know, just because if you overthrow.
I can't I counter Hayward on the sidelines. Okay, doesn't
mean that the offense is wrong.
Speaker 8 (16:14):
It was right.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
It went to the it just didn't get completed, you
know what I mean. There's there's got to be more
explosive runs. But if you go and check some of
the runs, if guys don't slide off the duos, if
guys at the tight end position do blocking duos with
the with the offensive tackles, if they're doing something and
they're getting the blocks right, he's gonna be able to
gain yardage there. So it's it's not the function just
(16:38):
only of scripting plays and this and that. You've got
to execute as always. Guys got to win their one
eleventh and you can't run away from not winning your
one eleventh. It's there, it's on tape, Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
So there's a lot to get to there, really good
points brought up, and a lot more to dive into. Unfortunately,
we're diving into a Steelers loss. They lose twenty to
seventeen to the Cowboys, drops them back to three and
two on the season. We're gonna have more analysis of
this game when we continue on the point after on
the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Back to the point after on DVD I formation.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Prescott gets a snap, gives to Towns and the ball
is loose and Prescott pounces on it back at the
four yard line. Downle was hit, ball came loose, and
now this changes a complexion of everything. The Cowboys forced
to use a timeout. The ball is back near the
five yard line. It's gonna be third in goal from there.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
The play of the game is brought to you by
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fdi C. And you're thinking, look, man, you know they're
gonna they have three chances to run the ball in
from the one foot line. The Landon Roberts makes that
big hit, You're thinking, well, wait a minute, this is
(18:01):
a different deal altogether, trying to score from two plays
from the four and a half, then three played from
the half. Unfortunately, we all know what happened on that
last final play. And by the way, a doff of
the cap to Dak Prescott. That was a tremendous throw, Matt.
(18:22):
He had to make it. I thought he made a
couple of superlative throws and one to Ceedee Lamb along
the sideline that play at the end of the game
to show why that's why the Cowboys paid him sixty
million dollars.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Yeah, he's a really good player. I mean, he's a
top ten quarterback all day long. That's seen things. And
when you get a tire defense, he's going to exploit
a time and time again a couple things when I
listened to that, though, Rob, you mentioned last segment, you
know there was eight to ten plays in that Colts
game that you know, by an inch if the Steelers
would have got it, it would have been the difference in
the game. That was one in this Dallas game that
(18:55):
had they fallen on that fumble, would be in a
lot of different spirits right now. But you also mentioned
you know that I kind of like take a Godfather
approach of these games too, and think of those around you,
think of those around you, think, and if this was
a Cowboys podcast, I'd be like, man, we may have
found a running game and this Tolbert guy could be
a really good number two receiver for us, and maybe
(19:17):
the defense is better than we thought without Micaeh Parsons.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
So you do have to give the opponent some credit.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
To Yeah, and that was one that could have gone
the Steeler's way, but three others did go the Steelers
way and a block field goal, so there was plenty
that went the Steelers' way. I just you know, when
you look at the yardage total, I mean the Cowboys
wolf basically doubled the Steelers up in this game. And yeah,
(19:43):
you had a moment, and I think if the Steelers
had won this game, it would have felt like an escape.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
It would have felt like a Houdini act.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Whereas if they'd beaten Indianapolis, I would have felt like
it was a good, methodical, solid comeback, you know, good
character win of a team that got punched early and
found itself on the canvas and got up and was
able to finish the fight and win by decision. This
one felt like they were getting out pointed all night.
To continue the boxing analogy.
Speaker 7 (20:12):
Well, I mean it would be snatching victory from the
jaws of defeat. I mean, you know, that's basically what
I thought they were gonna do with that hit by
Big General by Landon Roberts. Come on, and I don't
know about you, but I was like losing my mind.
I'm thinking they can come.
Speaker 8 (20:27):
Back now and they can hold the fort right here,
right now, and forget everything because winning covers.
Speaker 7 (20:33):
A ton of sins, right yeah. And then all of
a sudden, Dak did his job on the next play,
and so a couple of plays later. But you know,
for that moment, man like, it brought such hope, and
that's one of the things that I hope the guys
don't let extinguish. You've got to keep that hope candle
burning at all times, and it can't be just hoped.
(20:53):
It's got to be backed up with a ton of
work and everything else that you gotta do to get
the job done. But you cannot let this thing become
now two losses heading to a third, you can't. You
can stack wins and you can stack losses, and this
is something they've got to avoid.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
You know, Max, I want to go back to Wolf
was talking about the Connor Hayward shot up the sideline.
I believe it was Wolf talking about that that just
eluded Connor Hayward. You know, it grazed off his fingertips.
It was a pretty well thrown ball. It was a
heck of an effort by Connor Hayward. It falls incomplete,
and it feels like the Steelers are at a point
(21:32):
now where we're seeing a few more things. We're seeing
a few more over the last couple of weeks designed
runs for justin fields. They're trying to find different ways
to manufacturer yards, to move the sticks to manufacture points.
It seems pretty obvious that this is not what the
Cowboys can do with Dak Prescott yet. And by the way,
(21:56):
nice audition with Dowbell, as Matt mentioned, their most probably
their most effective running game. They came in as the
worst running team in the league in Dowdell, who's been
a career backup, really kind of had a nice game
for the Cowboys to help out Prescott. But Prescott, I mean,
you're throwing for three hundred and fifty plus yards. That
is what you expect your quarterback to do. Doesn't feel
(22:16):
like the Steelers are there yet offensively, and they're not
really kind of designed to be that way. So when
you have the opportunity to hit those plays, it kind
of hurts when you don't. And it was fields just
missing Hayward. Hayward was pretty open, it was a pretty
well thrown ball. It was almost a pretty good catch.
But almost doesn't quite get it done.
Speaker 8 (22:38):
Nah, you know, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I mean close only counts of hand grenades and horseshoes, right,
And in a football game, a matter of inches is
what separates a victory from a defeat. And right there
that was one of the prime examples where just three
to four inches a little bit shorter, you know, makes
a big play happen because you know, as you kind
(23:00):
of look at the big plays in the game Matt
mentioned earlier, no run over ten yards and you had
a handful of you know, those team plus plays. Kyle
Allen actually had one of them in the passing game.
And a screen that went short that was taken long
by Nause, a short route by George that was taken
long on extra effort. That was it for explosives in
(23:23):
that game.
Speaker 8 (23:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
It's hard to live that way. And I get if
you want to create, like we talked about the attrition game,
smash smash, smash and then hopefully it crashes. But having
Nase run laterally on those wide toss zones not effective.
That's not using his skill set. Now, that's more Jalen Warren,
that's more Cordero Patterson. That's where those guys, Excel. You
(23:48):
knew that Nase was going to be your lead back
in this game. Run the counters, as Wolfe said, run
the interior stuff between the tackles. Let him be a
battering ram. When you throw him out there like a pendulum.
That's the problem you're gonna get. You're gonna get a
lot more negative plays, a lot more zero yardage plays
than you will positive plays. And I thought that was
an execcution thing from the coaching aspect as far as
(24:10):
calling that game, that they didn't take advantage of the
personnel they had in there. And you can throw as
many big personnels out there as you want, but if
you're not running big personnel, big boy, flex your muscles
on top of the guy plays, it's not gonna happen.
And I think also the other issue was you're not
in a three point stance with thirteen personnel in a
(24:32):
short yardage situation. I don't care how, I don't care
if your hercules, you're not getting it because lim Val Joseph,
guess what, he's not moving, He's he's not.
Speaker 8 (24:43):
Going anywhere, and he is in a three point stance.
Everybody on defense is on a three point stance. Why
aren't you.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
They've already created about a foot of leverage on you,
so matter, and then you're not having to take the
extra step at the line of scrimmage going forward to
try and gather yourself to get back to that leverage
position as opposed to starting out there.
Speaker 6 (25:06):
Does it shock you?
Speaker 5 (25:07):
I know, there's a new coordinator and he's to do
things different than.
Speaker 8 (25:09):
The old one.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Yeah, but when they put Roderick Jones in the lineup
for the second half of last year, we saw pollers
everywhere weaponizing offensive lineman draps, as Wolf mentioned.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
It shocks me. We don't see nearly as much this year.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
No, and we don't see nearly as much. And I think,
you know, is this trying to say I'm separating my
philosophy from yours. Is this a philosophical difference trying to
distinguish yourself or is it basically, you know, saying that
practical application, I'm not looking at my personnel and I
just can put anything out there and they should execute it,
(25:43):
you know. And I think that's where you kind of
struggle with seeing what that is man. And I think
that that's my biggest concern is, you know, are we
getting too fancy for fancy's sake, as opposed to just
putting your hand in the dirt and just saying, I'm
gonna punch that guy in the mouth of me.
Speaker 8 (26:00):
So give me a man, let me point it out.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
It's a lot different if you don't plan on re
signing nause and you're gonna do that big picture. But
to beat the Cowboys on this day, I don't care
about who's gonna come back next year.
Speaker 6 (26:12):
I you know what I mean.
Speaker 8 (26:12):
About next year.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I'm living for today and today and everything. When you
talked about it, when you do when you do your research,
we're watching these games prepping for this game. There was
no stat category that the Steelers were good at that
the that the Dallas Cowboys were also good at. It
was a deficiency in things that we thought we were
(26:33):
strong at, and we didn't do that. Look like a
great matchup, I mean on paper, was like, man, this
is gonna be great because they're week against the run,
they have to sell out and now that puts one
on one situation on the outside we could throw away
out of eight man box. And we did none of that.
And that was the one thing that was really frustrating.
And like you said, it wasn't executing your personnel to
(26:54):
the best of their abilities.
Speaker 8 (26:55):
And so let me just say this.
Speaker 7 (26:57):
You remember this too, when even when you got eight
man boxes, you can still run successfully against eight man boxes.
But I will also tell you what Russ Grimm, you know,
a Hall of famer and was the line coach for Max.
Speaker 8 (27:10):
What did he used to say about the eighth man.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Oh yeah, that's the running back guy. Yeah there you go, Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
So let me so this is I'm going to go
down a football rabbit hole that that Matt has discovered.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
So Matt, I want to get back to you and
special teams.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Remind me if I forget Wolf and Max, I want
to ask you guys both, so a lot of times
we'll see you know, the thought is, hey, a certain
receiver will be better as a slot receiver. A guy
who is a really good, you know, four to three
rush and might not be a good fit on a
three to four, right, So you want certain personnel for
(27:46):
certain schemes. My question for both of you guys along
the offensive line, we're seeing it seems to me again
more zone blocking than we're seeing trapping and pulling in
that sort of thing. Does the scheme make a difference
to the offensive lineman? Are you looking for certain guys
who fit certain schemes or can can offensive lineman block?
(28:08):
No matter what the scheme, how important is the scheme
and the personnel marrying together for offensive linemen?
Speaker 7 (28:16):
Well, I will say, if you want to go all
the way back to the eighties seventies, okay, Chuck Nole,
we never had anybody over sixty three. You know why
because we ran such an intrinsic a trapping game that
I mean essentially off we come off the bus trapping. Okay,
I mean we're trapping everything. You pull the center, you
pull the guards, pull the tackle, wham with the tight ends,
(28:36):
what have you. The fact of the matter was they
it was Chuck's philosophy that you had to be an
under an up guy. You couldn't if you're six five
sixty six. It's tough for you to bend to get
underneath linebackers on two and three traps. If you're that tall,
you know you're not gonna have that leverage. So that
was in my mind. Yes, that was all about.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (29:00):
Players were designed for or you got players for the scheme.
You didn't. You couldn't have six to eight guys like Max.
Speaker 7 (29:06):
It would be tough for him to pull turn up
in the hole and then have some guys six two
six ' one trying, you know, meeting him in the
hole and he's got to try to bend and get under.
But you put him in a zone blocking scheme and
some of the man blocking schemes where you got all
that hamhock power that Max has got and design that that. Yeah,
he fits that perfectly. So that's kind of like the
(29:28):
obvious thing about it. You can still run some quick
traps on the inside, and I think Isaac runs them fine.
I think Mason's going to be fine with it. It's
just a situation of getting used to it. But those
zone blocking schemes and so forth, that's what everybody runs nowadays.
You know, whether it's inside outside, the duo blocks all
that stuff, it's everybody runs pretty much the same thing.
(29:49):
It's finding guys that work well together and have the
right body circumference, which obviously means you got to be big.
Speaker 6 (29:56):
And real quick.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
To expand on Rob's question, from my understanding, I've never
done that. You guys have zone blocking schemes, take more reps,
you know, more knowing the guy next to you, more timing,
and they haven't had any of that, you know, in terms.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
Of who's on the field.
Speaker 8 (30:10):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah, it's a trust thing when you run zone because
you're you're because the difference between zone and man is
area versus person. And when you're in a zone blocking scheme,
if we're working Quotelo, I'll just call it a slip
block on the back side, meaning we're taking the down
line in two of us and one of us works
to the back or whether he blits his black side
(30:31):
to create a cutback lane or whether he fast flows
over the top. Now that guy has to be quicker
on the front side. I will say this offensive I
was gonna say offensive lineman. Nowadays it matters who your
running back is and understanding what your running back sees.
So it's more of a marriage of the offensive line
with the running back versus the offensive line to the
(30:53):
scheme nowadays and.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
Thinking in no greater terms do you need to go
than leve Bell? Yeah, And leve Bell was the perfect
for the guy to just say, hey, look this is
the guy that sets up his offensive line, who understood
the second level guys and understood about the need of
patience sometimes and letting a whole develop.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
The best thay I've I can ever remember is like
when Mike Shanahan was with Denver. We're playing in altitude.
Everyone's going to be gassed. So we won two hundred
and seventy pounds. Linemen that are quick out of their
stance and they move together as one and they're never
going to get tired. And give me Clinton Portis who
will stick us foot in the ground and find a
crack and go.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Terrell Davis, Yeah, right, or another one a guy who's like,
I'm reading everything at the line of scrimmage and once
I see my hole, I'm hitting it one hundred miles
an hour to miles zone and we just yeah, we
have different guys for that. We have a lot of
different personnel types in that running back room, especially when
you think Cordero to Jalen to Nause, all three are different.
So you would think you would cater the run scheme
(31:52):
to each of those guys strengths because you have that
versailit because office line is going to block it regardless.
They just need to know who's back there and what
we're running at. That given time.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
All right, much more to get to, including special teams
and including an historic night, which we will get to
when we continue in the point after on this stee
there's audio network back.
Speaker 8 (32:10):
To the point after on DVE.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Snap back to Prescott looking looking out to the left.
Has time now he doesn't have time. The ball is
out and it's gonna be recovered. Well, that's either still
battling for herbig comes away with it and give half
a sack to Trent Jordan TJ.
Speaker 8 (32:30):
What that is?
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Career sack number one hundred for him.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
He has entered the history books as the second fastest
to ever get one hundred sacks. And the Sack Hunger
segment is brought to you by the Greater Pittsburgh Community
Food Bank. Get food, volunteer or donate at Pittsburgh Food
Bank dot org. Matt Williamson TJ. Watt is he's a great,
(32:56):
great football player.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
He's a great, great football player. And this is last week.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
I've been asked a bunch of where's the stack on
the Steeler defensive All time list, and you know, crazy
things like that. And I think if he never played
another down he would be a Hall of Famer today.
And with all respect to Reggie White, who's unbelievable, who
has the record for reaching one hundred sacks. Reggie White
got to play his formidable years in the USFL. He
(33:20):
came into the NFL as a full grown man, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (33:23):
He left as a full grown man.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
Yeah, I can just say that from experience, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
So, Matt, I did want to ask you about about
special teams. But as long as we're on TJ Watt, Max,
you want to weigh in on the greatness of TJ.
Speaker 8 (33:43):
I'm glad I'm retired. That's number one.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Glad that he would have been a teammate of mine
versus an adversary. But no, I think when you think
of the greatness that is TJ. Watt like, he steps
up in those big moments and he never shies away
from the limelight. When the play needs to be made,
he can usually do it as long as he's not
being held by two and three guys and not getting
it and not getting a flag for it. I think
(34:08):
you know what TJ brings, the intimidation that he brings
to offensive tackles and opposing offenses. They have to pay
particular attention to him. He is a guy that's a
focal point. When you look across the ball, you need
to say a where is ninety B? Where is thirty nine?
And then usually what comes it? Oh, my god, ninety
seven still here. You know, it's that sequential type of
(34:33):
formidability that they present. And would you know that you
have to play essentially with ten guys being available versus
eleven because you're going to dedicate one extra guy than
what's necessary to TJ Watt on any given play. That
usually makes your defensive job a lot easier. And the
problem is all of those support guys have been injured
(34:54):
because Alex Heismith was one of those guys that provided
that secondary impact to where you're like, man, we have
to get past this initial push of and phase of
guys and herbig came in and was giving you that
same Alex Heighsmith type of production until he got injured
in the game. And I think that allows you to
focus in on well, you know there's lesser talent on
the other side. You can then focus your attentions the
other way and they just wore TJ.
Speaker 8 (35:16):
Down in the game.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
But he is truly a difference maker and an X
factor for any team, and thank.
Speaker 8 (35:23):
God he is a Pittsburgh Steeler.
Speaker 6 (35:26):
They don't have herbig Leal or high Smith.
Speaker 8 (35:29):
Next week.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
That's gonna be a four guys blocking him.
Speaker 8 (35:34):
Yeah, overload.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
It is gonna be a chore. And and the question
does come up, and you're hearing it more and more.
But I think that you know, at some point, you know,
you can only be so great, right and if you're
being mentioned with you know, Joe Green and Troy Polamalu
Wolf and you know Mel Blont, I mean, the list
goes on and on first year, there's great and I
(36:03):
just think to fit comfortably in that group is an
awfully good place to be.
Speaker 7 (36:08):
There's no question about it. I mean, you watch that
young man compete out there, and you'll love the fire.
I mean, that's the first thing you feel coming off
of man. The dude is on fire. And when he's
at it, when he's at his best, it's a full
flame on like that guy in the Fantastic I mean,
it's just.
Speaker 8 (36:26):
It's really amazing to watch.
Speaker 7 (36:28):
And you see, you know, look at I mean TJ
is wide, he's six four two fifty something like that. Yeah,
you see these giant six foot eight guys looking around
when they come out that first snap.
Speaker 8 (36:39):
And they're going, Okay, do I got the wall? Do
I got the chip? Do I got the running back?
Over here? You'll keep it all, you.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Know, Hey, hey, tight end, tight end?
Speaker 8 (36:48):
You know what I'm tight? You're not loose splitting out exactly.
Speaker 7 (36:51):
I mean it's really funny because the intimidation factor that
he brings with him, because he will come.
Speaker 8 (36:57):
Out of nowhere.
Speaker 7 (36:58):
It's it's like he'll ghost move a guy, he'll go
run through a guy, he'll duck into the inside. He's
got all his his trapping hands work that he does
when he runs the arcane, and he's got this football IQ.
Remember the the interception he had last year when he
dropped back and you know, things like that. You go, wow,
that's that's football on another level. You know, I'm a
(37:20):
checkers guy. He's he's at that with that three piece
Chinese checkers chest whatever it.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Ish, Chinese checkers multi dimensional, it looks like yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
You know, okay, so yes, the intimidation factor, the greatness
factor that he is a Steelers all time great factor,
all that's wonderful. Before we put a rap on this game,
I did want to Matt bring up one more thing,
because I think by and large this was a plus
for the Special Special Teams. You know, the net for
(37:53):
weight and it was only forty point four. There was
a touchback in which Edmunds, you know, almost got the ball.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
He was in.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Really good position and it just skipped past him. I
don't know if he lost his footing or lost sight
of the ball, but I thought Weightman did a nice
job punting. You know, Turpin got one kickoff return for
thirty eight yards. Anytime that guy touches the ball, if
you're not a Cowboys fan, and we were not Cowboys fans,
that's for sure, it is you are holding your breath
(38:21):
because he is just so electric. So all things considered,
and then you block a field go And now I'm
looking at Anger. Anger had one punt yesterday. The Cowboys
punted once in this game. That's not the Special Teams
unit's fault. I thought, when you throw the block, uh,
you know field goal in there, and you know Boswell
being accurate with his kicks, that this was a you know,
(38:43):
the AFC Player of the Month, Special Teams Player of
the Month, Chris Boswell. I think that this has to
be looked at as one area that the Studers, I
think unequivocally would have to say, yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
It was a positive in this game.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
And I was really excited to watch Johnston, especially from
what we've seen at Punters in the last couple of years,
because I thought he was going to be a real
weapon and weightman is good. I mean, certainly improvement over
the last couple of years. And I one hundred percent
agree with everything you said. But that Aubrey character for
Dallas is pretty decent too, And I was really intrigued
(39:18):
with his kickoffs. I mean, I would have loved to
see Quardall Patterson be actually able to return a kick.
He should Before this game, the Steelers have returned one
kick all year. They just plasted out of the end zone.
But Aubrey has that funky lands it in the zone
every time, makes it tough on you, which is a
really interesting strategy I think other kickers are going to
adapt to. But boy, wouldn't have been nice have Quarterrell,
(39:39):
you know, returning one two or even Warren you know.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
By the way, I hope more teams do it because
it adds much want to add a play. By the way,
my apologies to all English teachers. I think I threw
a b in the word unequivocal. I think I made
it unequivocable.
Speaker 6 (39:56):
Or none of us have ever bought the name or anything.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
We're all looking for well, looking for that away right
now to come inf So guys is to their's head
on the road, and you know, we don't want to
have to dig too deep into this matchup other Wolf
(40:19):
and to say that this just feels like an important
game at this point of the season, because you don't
want losing to become a habit. You've lost two games
that you've had opportunities to win. I think that you
go four and two and you're flying back across the
country with two more primetime games coming up to close
(40:39):
out October, and you're feeling pretty good about where you are.
Speaker 8 (40:44):
So you're asking me about the Rays, you know, I.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Ask you about the importance of the game.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
And by the way, another great rivalry game, right exactly,
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (40:54):
You know, when the Cowboys would come off.
Speaker 7 (40:56):
Of the eighties, that was was big the seventies, and
now the Raiders, who you know, that's another team that
I hate.
Speaker 8 (41:03):
It's trying to get right now.
Speaker 7 (41:08):
But the point is, yes, this is a very important game.
This is a game where look at you've you've now
stacked you stacked three wins together. Now you've stacked two
losses together. You don't want to continue the losses. Those
things are as infectious as COVID for crying out loud,
you know, And so you want to make sure you
stop the bleeding. And you got to stop the bleeding
this week. This is a great opportunity against the Raiders
(41:31):
team and I think you can get after. But at
the same point in time, I thought you're gonna get
after the Cowboys.
Speaker 8 (41:36):
Too, you know.
Speaker 7 (41:37):
So the challenge is before them and they yes, and
like you said, but you know what, here's the beauty
of it.
Speaker 8 (41:43):
They can do it.
Speaker 7 (41:44):
I mean it's right there in front of them, and
they've got to put together their best performances and collectively
do it as a team.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Well I was just waiting for it. Yeah, you're waiting
for that great team performance. We've seen phases and separate points,
but we haven't seen the entire team, all three fase
that's gonna come play play in concert with each other.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I think that one of the things, uh that is
One of the many, many things it's so cool about
the Steelers is to have these rivals. When you think
about rivalries mostly you're thinking about teams within the division.
You know, histories that go way back. You know, the
the Packers and the Bears, the Rams and the forty
(42:25):
nine ers out west. You know, anybody in the the
NFC East, the Cowboys, the Eagles, the Giants, the Red Well, sorry,
the Command yeah now the well well done, Max, thanks
for looking out. But you know, we talked about the
Steelers Cowboys rivalry. You know, they've only played now thirty
(42:46):
four times in their history, including the playoffs. That's not
a lot of meetings. The Steelers and Ravens, you know,
have have played more than that in a in a
shorter period of time because they're in the same division.
But it's not a conference versus conference Max Stevens versus Cowboys,
which makes that unique. But it is also not a
(43:07):
divisional game. It's not an opponent you see every single year,
and yet the enmity between the two sides continues to
exist and it is a great rivalry. We talked in
the pregame yesterday about the Cowboys and the Steelers being
different styles, right, a boxer versus a slugger.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Well, this is two teams kind of like the Steves
and Ravens, you know that would fight in the phone
booth because that's the kind of styles that they play.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean, you know, Steelers Cowboys was
Hatfields and McCoy's of NFL. You know, it's just it's
a deep rooted historical rivalry. And like you said, it
stends back to an era when they played in Super
Bowls and they got and the Steelers got the better
of them. Early Cowboys come back, they get their one
(43:54):
punch in the nineties and there was an argument over
who was America's team, and you know that whole conjecture
that went on. So there was all these little animosity
moments that would bleed into that historical relevance of only
seeing each other once every four years. And you had
the additional opportunity and also both of these teams are
(44:15):
the top two all time and playing in primetime. You know,
Cowboys have one hundred and six stealers played in ninety eight.
Now they both have one extra to add to that
after last night or this morning, however you want to
count it. And that's what I think is is is
what breeds that It breeds across decades, it breeds across
family generations. You know that disgust comes in and it
(44:37):
only continues to further anebriate itself and just come to
a head all the time every time they see each other.
But like you said, another one, and the rivalry is
going to be this Raider squad is going to be,
you know, as Al Davis versus the Chief, AFL versus
NFL merger, the Bad Boys versus the Golden Boys. However
(44:58):
you want to look at it, it's always been a
crux and they've always met at critical junctures in those
seventies and eighties, and it's been a slugfest. And it's
going to be interesting to see how we deal with
the rebound of going off a one rivalry game and
going into the next rivalry game.
Speaker 6 (45:15):
Matt, so I do urge people to check it out.
Speaker 5 (45:18):
It's a little after the fact, but Dale wrote a
great article on Steelers dot Com. Just like since the
merger in nineteen seventy, the Dallas has the most division titles.
Since then, Steelers or second Steelers have the most wins.
Dallas a second, there's just all this long list where
they're the top two winningest organization since the seventies, and
kind of put a bow on and look the next
(45:40):
week too. I mean, I was born in nineteen seventy three,
and by the time I was probably five years old,
it was ingrained to me that the team you hate most,
Matt is the Raiders. Then it's the Cowboys. Then we'll
worry about the Oilers and the Bengals and the Browns.
Later we got them under control.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yeah, good stuff, can't wait. Guys, Thank you very much.
Special guest star Max Starks.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Max thinks you're.
Speaker 8 (46:03):
Being with us my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Gear up with the latest game day necessities the Official
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(46:28):
dot com. For Matt Williamson, Max Starks, Craig Wolfley, I'm
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(00:21):
And now here are your hosts, Rob King, Craig Wolfley,
and Matt Williamson.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Well, thanks everybody for being with us for the Point
After on the Steelers Audio Network. We're so gloomy and
so down that we needed somebody to pick us up.
So we're also joined today by Max Starks, who could
I think actually physically pick us all up at one time.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, yeah, definitely in the past in the past. You
know what I can do now, I can carry the wheelbarrow.
I can just put you in there. That's my closest
to picking up now.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
You know that would be nice.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
We'd like that because we all need to be lifted
up after this loss to the Dallas Cowboys. Our first
reaction is brought to you by First National Bank. Let's
get started member fdi C.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
So full disclosure.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
I was on This Morning with Max, and I was
on This Morning with Wolf, and I've also listened to
Matt Williamson's podcast. So but I have not heard from
Matt Williamson in person. So Matt, why don't you start
us off with your impressions your first reaction on what
you saw last night?
Speaker 5 (01:27):
Well, if we want to put a Rosie spin on it,
you didn't play close to your best game as a team,
and you were still in it to the absolute final play.
I think there's something to be said for that. But
relying on massive, timely splash plays on defense is a really,
really tough way to live in this league. You know,
red zone turnovers, block kicks, things of that nature. And
(01:51):
for the second week in a row, you know, Robin,
you know, you and I do a lot of prep
for these they not that these guys don't, but I
dig into these teams so much the opponent that for
the second week in a row, I kind of thought, man,
I don't see an obvious path where the Colts or
Cowboys could get the better of the Steelers.
Speaker 6 (02:07):
And for two weeks in a row now they have.
Speaker 7 (02:10):
That's where the statistics just drive you crazy, right right,
you can't get too.
Speaker 6 (02:14):
Any you know, there's you know beings.
Speaker 8 (02:17):
Yeah, that's that's that's why they played the game. Well.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
You know the other thing, Matt, that I was talking
about this morning that I found a little more disturbing
about this loss was I thought I could have isolated
a lot of plays against the Colts that just didn't
go this to other's way, just kind of dumb luck,
bad things happening, fumbles, bounce the type here and there, interception,
(02:43):
any one of not eight plays that turned the game,
any one of eight plays that could have turned the
game in the students favor where it didn't feel like
the Colts would be walking off the field saying that
at all. I think the Cowboys or the team walking
off this field saying, man, we let it. We left
a lot out there. This game could have gotten lopsided
(03:03):
if they had, you know, not turned the ball over
the red zone, not had a field goal block. This
feels different to me than the Colts loss. This feels like,
wait a minute, now, we might need to regroup a
little bit, because that was not a good way to
go out.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
I like the way you phrased that, because you know,
on offense you had plays to be made downfield that
you missed. It wasn't dallasted something to make you screw
up a long completion, not one run over ten yards
the entire day, you know, in the running game. And
the O line is a work in progress, to be kind.
And then I don't frankly understand the usage of George Pickens.
(03:41):
I mean, when there was two wide receivers on the field,
he only got one snap in those personnel groupings. I mean,
it makes it too easy to play against. They're short
on playmakers right now. But I might blame the defense
more than the offense. I mean they picked a part
the Steelers defense with very little resistance once again, and
I just didn't see that coming.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, And I when I look back at the Colts game,
I thought, Okay, the defense, you know, maybe they did
some things in some drives. And then then the defense
rally and did a really nice job, the offense rallying
did a really nice job, and just some things happened.
You know, there were certainly moments, uh, you know, Max,
and let's go to you next year. In this game
in which you know the Steelers, they you know, they
(04:21):
had the march in the second half that was you know,
they had a very nice touchdown drive that they put up.
But they they the two did not marry together. They
couldn't get enough offense going to get the defense a rest.
They couldn't get enough you know, defensive stops to give
the offense another chance. It just it didn't go hand
in hand in this game.
Speaker 8 (04:41):
No, I think.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I think that also lends itself to the offense not
getting off to a fast start, like the first drive
you got points, but then to get stemied in those moments,
like you said, we still we had the strip sack,
we had we had big plays to be made where
you needed to flip the field and we go three
and out right after that.
Speaker 8 (04:59):
So you don't do anything.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
With that extra stolen possession in the game, and then
by the time you need it in the second half,
the defense is is depleted at that point. I mean,
you think about the passwords. Pass rus was gone. Yep,
you know, once once Herbid got injured on on that
on that hit on on on deck and then now
you had to go to Marvin Leal and then Demarvin
Leo goes out with a stinger. And then and that
(05:22):
was Jeremiah Moon who hadn't played football since the preseason,
and you're asking him to play meaningful plays in the
gut to have a moments and TJ's exhausted at this point,
so he's on the sideline as well.
Speaker 8 (05:33):
And at one point Loudermilk was playing.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Outside back or for us, and we went we shifted
to a four down front because of that. And it
just like you said, it was just two ships passing
in the night, you know, when one was on in
the first half, the other one was completely cold, and
then the other one starts to warm up and the
other one has been flamed out. It was just like
you said. It was just it was not playing complimentary football.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
You know, Wolf, When I look at this game, and
I just look at the drive chart in this game,
and the cow Boys had one drive that had fewer
than six plays. That was their second drive of the
game that resulted in a punt. The Steelers had a
five play drive, a three play drive, a three play drive,
a four play drive, a three play drive.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
They had five that were under six plays.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And you know, we talk about the Steelers offense wanting
to have a cumulative effect.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
You run the game early. You run the ball early.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It might not show up in positive yardage, but you
want to wear the other team down. I think perhaps
what we saw is the offense's inability. Even though Dallas,
you know, they did run the ball more effectively as
the game went on. That's not their approach, but just
being out on the field, you know, getting over to
(06:47):
the sideline and now all of a sudden you're grabbing
your helmet running back out on defense again. That may
have had a cumulative effect on the Steelers. Is this
game more on as well?
Speaker 8 (06:55):
Oh, there's no question.
Speaker 7 (06:56):
I mean, if you look at the possession downs three
of twelve, that's I'm sorry, but that's not winning football.
That's not going to win you many games. And it's
unfortunate because the shots were there and they took shots. Hey,
you know, it's it's like Matt said earlier. You know,
it's not like the Cowboys were doing something that was
you know, negating whatever the Steels were doing that the
(07:17):
throwers were there that you know, but they didn't hook up.
It was either too long or underthrown or something of
that nature. That kept them from being able to capitalize
on on what they were doing, and that's the unfortunate thing.
But if you can't roll chains on third down, you're
gonna in for a long night unless you have some
explosive plays in your in your your bank of plays.
(07:38):
You know, if you're not roll, if you're not getting
explosive plays every now and then, it's it turns into
the you know, the Padan death March there, you know,
And that's essentially what really happened for them.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Max back to you on this because I think you know, uh,
we saw a possession in which the Steelers had second
and short, they got a pre snap penalty, then they
turned it into third and short, and they got another
pre snap penalty, and they're not able to overcome those things.
And the Cowboys had a first and twenty after two
of their own pre snap penalties, and they are built
(08:14):
to overcome that.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I understand that.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I think we all understand that the offenses are built
different ways. And you hope that the Steelers are on
an evolutionary path that's going to get them to the
point where first and twenty is not that big of
a deal. Right now, it feels like it's a big deal.
So separating those moments out to me, you know, I
(08:36):
wanted to ask you and Wolf and Matt where you
think this running game is right now, this ability to
get into those third and manageables. You're going with a
lot of heavy personnel, You've got an offensive line that
you want to wear an opponent down with, and you're
going against a Cowboys defense that's without it's two best players.
(08:57):
I thought the Steelers would be able to do a
better job. And Eric Kendricks is a terrific bental linebacker.
I think they've got a really good young player and
overshown who flies around a lot. But I thought the
Steelers would be able to bring their pressure to bear
on the Cowboys, and it didn't feel to me like
that happened. Do you agree with my assessment and what
(09:17):
needs to happen better?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
If that is the case, all right, so let's attack
this because it's a multi pronged attack on this one.
Speaker 8 (09:24):
Yes, let's start with the latter.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Defensively, we were pressuring and getting to Deak in the
first half, and it was evident by the fact that
he had to switch his jersey at halftime because it
had so much green on the.
Speaker 8 (09:38):
Back of that white jersey.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Second half, like you said, started to heat up the pressure,
you lose a Herbic, started to heat up the pressure.
Speaker 8 (09:46):
You then lose a Demarvin Leal.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Now you're playing cautious because you're like, we don't have
enough bodies, and I get the attrition game. It happens
every year. Is pick your position group. It was inside
linebackers last year, it was the entire secondary a year
before that. Right now it's outside linebackers.
Speaker 6 (10:04):
And running backs and before.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
And now we're dealing with running backs now on the
offensive side of the ball. So I think defensively, they
just ran out of gas. And when they gave you
those plays early, when they blocked the field goal, when
you have two red zone interceptions that help you, you know, sorry,
red zone interception and then also a fumble force fumble
(10:28):
that helps you and you don't do anything with it.
And then the second half you're like, I need more possessions,
like we gave you possessions, and then offensively to attack
that issue, it's the run game is not where it
needs to be because they don't have gel And that's
the easiest way of putting it. You've rolled out different
rotations just about every single week. There's somebody new in
(10:50):
the lineup, so there's no consistency with the offensive line
right now. And I said this earlier in our show.
I need the in a three point stance. I can't
stand a two point stance and run situations on first
and ten. It bothers me. I don't care if the
quarterback it feels comfortable in the shotgun. If you know
you're going to run the ball, it doesn't matter if
(11:12):
the other guy across from you knows that you're going
to run the ball. It's about him stopping me. And
you have to go dictate the fight as opposed to
being reactionary to it. And I think you lose leverage,
you lose power, you lose all of the things that
make a run game effective when you're six inches higher
than you should be at the initial snap of the ball.
(11:32):
And I think that's what leads to them not making
it up to the second level on backers and covering guys,
And why guys slide off on the on the first
level or you turn them loose trying to get to
the second level is because you didn't You didn't get
that guy.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Up at that assessment by by Max Starks. But you know, Matt,
I would expect I still expect more from this running game.
And if you're going to be built this way, you
know you're going against a team that I thought they
would be able to wear down with the running game.
Now again, you know hand in glove right, you don't
get enough going offensively, you don't get the ball back
(12:05):
quickly enough. I think in this instance, even though the
defense in the second half didn't get the job done,
I think it was more a case of attrition. I
would like to see more from the offense as far
as being able to run the ball. You're built to
run the ball. You're going with heavy sets. You have
a big, physical runner, and I know he was dinged
up and had to leave the game for a while,
(12:27):
but it just never felt like the running game got
the traction that it would need to get in a
game like this in order to provide the winning margin.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And the best defense is less defense.
And the Steelers played way too much defense last night,
I mean, and they were shot at the end. I
thought it would be the other way around. I mean,
with Parsons and Lawrence by far their best guys up
front being out for the game, and then niel In
getting get hurt right.
Speaker 8 (12:53):
Off the bat.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
They had seven guys for four spots across their defensive line,
and frankly, besides Lynn Bell Jos who played really well,
I mean he was an anchor in the middle. By
the way, he's in a full grown man, none of
them were super.
Speaker 8 (13:06):
Impressed and a half.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
Yeah, yeah, I mean he's a handful, there's no question.
But between those seven for four spots, I thought they
would wear them down consistently.
Speaker 8 (13:15):
Now.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
I do think we knew that the offensive line, even
in training camp, was going to be a work in progress,
but I don't think any of us thought they would
start four different line combinations and three or four guys
making their first start ever over the course of five games.
And as we mentioned, I mean, the cluster injuries at
running back are certainly a factor. I'm not picking on nausea,
(13:35):
but he doesn't seem to be making any more yardage
than what's blocked. And I would have loved to have
seen a healthy Warren from last year what he could
have done in that situation. But it's a group effort,
and I don't think people scared. Are super scared of
the passing game. You know, you're not backing people off
the line of scrimmage. I keep going back to wys
and pickings on the field war and I think the
offense is becoming too easy to play against.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Well, you wonder wolf, you know, if you're not able
to run the ball the way you want to sometimes,
I mean, are we seeing teams selling out to stop
the run? Are we seeing teams flying up? And this
is a question I should say this. Bob Briola asked
Mike Tomlin this, and Mike Tomlin said, yeah, he does
(14:19):
think that teams are committing to stop the Steelers run,
but they still are, you know, expect to be able
to run the ball. So is it just a matter
of this or mostly a matter of this offensive line
gelling together, getting some continuity together and also maybe getting
your running back core healthy for this running game to
(14:41):
start to succeed. Or is there more to it?
Speaker 7 (14:44):
No, I really think it's about getting your offensive line
to gel and getting your people back.
Speaker 8 (14:49):
I mean.
Speaker 7 (14:50):
Mike Domlind also referenced the fact of having a primary
and an auxiliary runner and what that means as far
as defensively how you get defensive back filling certain run
lanes on certain downs and distances versus certain personnel packages.
That creates a better opportunity for the auxiliary runner on
third downs and so forth, on draws, screens, things.
Speaker 8 (15:12):
Of that like that. That that that is different, you know.
Speaker 7 (15:15):
So yeah, you know, I'd love to have cordero and
have them a jail and healthy and back again.
Speaker 8 (15:20):
Right now.
Speaker 7 (15:21):
Naji's the guy. Now, he's he's very durable, and he's
he's a punchier in the mouth type guy. But you've
got to be able to script more plays, get him better. Uh,
running lanes open there and that's got to be something. Yeah,
it's got to be more linear if you ask. In
my mind, I'd like to see more traps, you know,
the short traps. He's built for that thing, man, I
(15:43):
mean you you hand that ball off and skidaddle through
one of those two three gaps. Well in my day
we call them. Yeah, I forgot. This is more modern era,
you know. So, but you know that would I think
that would be great and be built. He's, like I said,
built for that sort of thing. But again, remember there
(16:03):
were opportunities there, you know, just because if you overthrow.
I can't I counter Hayward on the sidelines. Okay, doesn't
mean that the offense is wrong.
Speaker 8 (16:14):
It was right.
Speaker 7 (16:15):
It went to the it just didn't get completed, you
know what I mean. There's there's got to be more
explosive runs. But if you go and check some of
the runs, if guys don't slide off the duos, if
guys at the tight end position do blocking duos with
the with the offensive tackles, if they're doing something and
they're getting the blocks right, he's gonna be able to
gain yardage there. So it's it's not the function just
(16:38):
only of scripting plays and this and that. You've got
to execute as always. Guys got to win their one
eleventh and you can't run away from not winning your
one eleventh. It's there, it's on tape, Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
So there's a lot to get to there, really good
points brought up, and a lot more to dive into. Unfortunately,
we're diving into a Steelers loss. They lose twenty to
seventeen to the Cowboys, drops them back to three and
two on the season. We're gonna have more analysis of
this game when we continue on the point after on
the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Back to the point after on DVD I formation.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Prescott gets a snap, gives to Towns and the ball
is loose and Prescott pounces on it back at the
four yard line. Downle was hit, ball came loose, and
now this changes a complexion of everything. The Cowboys forced
to use a timeout. The ball is back near the
five yard line. It's gonna be third in goal from there.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
The play of the game is brought to you by
S and T Bank, proudly serving our community since nineteen
oh two. stBank dot com s and T Bank member
fdi C. And you're thinking, look, man, you know they're
gonna they have three chances to run the ball in
from the one foot line. The Landon Roberts makes that
big hit, You're thinking, well, wait a minute, this is
(18:01):
a different deal altogether, trying to score from two plays
from the four and a half, then three played from
the half. Unfortunately, we all know what happened on that
last final play. And by the way, a doff of
the cap to Dak Prescott. That was a tremendous throw, Matt.
(18:22):
He had to make it. I thought he made a
couple of superlative throws and one to Ceedee Lamb along
the sideline that play at the end of the game
to show why that's why the Cowboys paid him sixty
million dollars.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Yeah, he's a really good player. I mean, he's a
top ten quarterback all day long. That's seen things. And
when you get a tire defense, he's going to exploit
a time and time again a couple things when I
listened to that, though, Rob, you mentioned last segment, you
know there was eight to ten plays in that Colts
game that you know, by an inch if the Steelers
would have got it, it would have been the difference in
the game. That was one in this Dallas game that
(18:55):
had they fallen on that fumble, would be in a
lot of different spirits right now. But you also mentioned
you know that I kind of like take a Godfather
approach of these games too, and think of those around you,
think of those around you, think, and if this was
a Cowboys podcast, I'd be like, man, we may have
found a running game and this Tolbert guy could be
a really good number two receiver for us, and maybe
(19:17):
the defense is better than we thought without Micaeh Parsons.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
So you do have to give the opponent some credit.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
To Yeah, and that was one that could have gone
the Steeler's way, but three others did go the Steelers
way and a block field goal, so there was plenty
that went the Steelers' way. I just you know, when
you look at the yardage total, I mean the Cowboys
wolf basically doubled the Steelers up in this game. And yeah,
(19:43):
you had a moment, and I think if the Steelers
had won this game, it would have felt like an escape.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
It would have felt like a Houdini act.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Whereas if they'd beaten Indianapolis, I would have felt like
it was a good, methodical, solid comeback, you know, good
character win of a team that got punched early and
found itself on the canvas and got up and was
able to finish the fight and win by decision. This
one felt like they were getting out pointed all night.
To continue the boxing analogy.
Speaker 7 (20:12):
Well, I mean it would be snatching victory from the
jaws of defeat. I mean, you know, that's basically what
I thought they were gonna do with that hit by
Big General by Landon Roberts. Come on, and I don't
know about you, but I was like losing my mind.
I'm thinking they can come.
Speaker 8 (20:27):
Back now and they can hold the fort right here,
right now, and forget everything because winning covers.
Speaker 7 (20:33):
A ton of sins, right yeah. And then all of
a sudden, Dak did his job on the next play,
and so a couple of plays later. But you know,
for that moment, man like, it brought such hope, and
that's one of the things that I hope the guys
don't let extinguish. You've got to keep that hope candle
burning at all times, and it can't be just hoped.
(20:53):
It's got to be backed up with a ton of
work and everything else that you gotta do to get
the job done. But you cannot let this thing become
now two losses heading to a third, you can't. You
can stack wins and you can stack losses, and this
is something they've got to avoid.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
You know, Max, I want to go back to Wolf
was talking about the Connor Hayward shot up the sideline.
I believe it was Wolf talking about that that just
eluded Connor Hayward. You know, it grazed off his fingertips.
It was a pretty well thrown ball. It was a
heck of an effort by Connor Hayward. It falls incomplete,
and it feels like the Steelers are at a point
(21:32):
now where we're seeing a few more things. We're seeing
a few more over the last couple of weeks designed
runs for justin fields. They're trying to find different ways
to manufacturer yards, to move the sticks to manufacture points.
It seems pretty obvious that this is not what the
Cowboys can do with Dak Prescott yet. And by the way,
(21:56):
nice audition with Dowbell, as Matt mentioned, their most probably
their most effective running game. They came in as the
worst running team in the league in Dowdell, who's been
a career backup, really kind of had a nice game
for the Cowboys to help out Prescott. But Prescott, I mean,
you're throwing for three hundred and fifty plus yards. That
is what you expect your quarterback to do. Doesn't feel
(22:16):
like the Steelers are there yet offensively, and they're not
really kind of designed to be that way. So when
you have the opportunity to hit those plays, it kind
of hurts when you don't. And it was fields just
missing Hayward. Hayward was pretty open, it was a pretty
well thrown ball. It was almost a pretty good catch.
But almost doesn't quite get it done.
Speaker 8 (22:38):
Nah, you know, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I mean close only counts of hand grenades and horseshoes, right,
And in a football game, a matter of inches is
what separates a victory from a defeat. And right there
that was one of the prime examples where just three
to four inches a little bit shorter, you know, makes
a big play happen because you know, as you kind
(23:00):
of look at the big plays in the game Matt
mentioned earlier, no run over ten yards and you had
a handful of you know, those team plus plays. Kyle
Allen actually had one of them in the passing game.
And a screen that went short that was taken long
by Nause, a short route by George that was taken
long on extra effort. That was it for explosives in
(23:23):
that game.
Speaker 8 (23:25):
Right.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
It's hard to live that way. And I get if
you want to create, like we talked about the attrition game,
smash smash, smash and then hopefully it crashes. But having
Nase run laterally on those wide toss zones not effective.
That's not using his skill set. Now, that's more Jalen Warren,
that's more Cordero Patterson. That's where those guys, Excel. You
(23:48):
knew that Nase was going to be your lead back
in this game. Run the counters, as Wolfe said, run
the interior stuff between the tackles. Let him be a
battering ram. When you throw him out there like a pendulum.
That's the problem you're gonna get. You're gonna get a
lot more negative plays, a lot more zero yardage plays
than you will positive plays. And I thought that was
an execcution thing from the coaching aspect as far as
(24:10):
calling that game, that they didn't take advantage of the
personnel they had in there. And you can throw as
many big personnels out there as you want, but if
you're not running big personnel, big boy, flex your muscles
on top of the guy plays, it's not gonna happen.
And I think also the other issue was you're not
in a three point stance with thirteen personnel in a
(24:32):
short yardage situation. I don't care how, I don't care
if your hercules, you're not getting it because lim Val Joseph,
guess what, he's not moving, He's he's not.
Speaker 8 (24:43):
Going anywhere, and he is in a three point stance.
Everybody on defense is on a three point stance. Why
aren't you.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
They've already created about a foot of leverage on you,
so matter, and then you're not having to take the
extra step at the line of scrimmage going forward to
try and gather yourself to get back to that leverage
position as opposed to starting out there.
Speaker 6 (25:06):
Does it shock you?
Speaker 5 (25:07):
I know, there's a new coordinator and he's to do
things different than.
Speaker 8 (25:09):
The old one.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Yeah, but when they put Roderick Jones in the lineup
for the second half of last year, we saw pollers
everywhere weaponizing offensive lineman draps, as Wolf mentioned.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
It shocks me. We don't see nearly as much this year.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
No, and we don't see nearly as much. And I think,
you know, is this trying to say I'm separating my
philosophy from yours. Is this a philosophical difference trying to
distinguish yourself or is it basically, you know, saying that
practical application, I'm not looking at my personnel and I
just can put anything out there and they should execute it,
(25:43):
you know. And I think that's where you kind of
struggle with seeing what that is man. And I think
that that's my biggest concern is, you know, are we
getting too fancy for fancy's sake, as opposed to just
putting your hand in the dirt and just saying, I'm
gonna punch that guy in the mouth of me.
Speaker 8 (26:00):
So give me a man, let me point it out.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
It's a lot different if you don't plan on re
signing nause and you're gonna do that big picture. But
to beat the Cowboys on this day, I don't care
about who's gonna come back next year.
Speaker 6 (26:12):
I you know what I mean.
Speaker 8 (26:12):
About next year.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
I'm living for today and today and everything. When you
talked about it, when you do when you do your research,
we're watching these games prepping for this game. There was
no stat category that the Steelers were good at that
the that the Dallas Cowboys were also good at. It
was a deficiency in things that we thought we were
(26:33):
strong at, and we didn't do that. Look like a
great matchup, I mean on paper, was like, man, this
is gonna be great because they're week against the run,
they have to sell out and now that puts one
on one situation on the outside we could throw away
out of eight man box. And we did none of that.
And that was the one thing that was really frustrating.
And like you said, it wasn't executing your personnel to
(26:54):
the best of their abilities.
Speaker 8 (26:55):
And so let me just say this.
Speaker 7 (26:57):
You remember this too, when even when you got eight
man boxes, you can still run successfully against eight man boxes.
But I will also tell you what Russ Grimm, you know,
a Hall of famer and was the line coach for Max.
Speaker 8 (27:10):
What did he used to say about the eighth man.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Oh yeah, that's the running back guy. Yeah there you go, Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
So let me so this is I'm going to go
down a football rabbit hole that that Matt has discovered.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
So Matt, I want to get back to you and
special teams.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Remind me if I forget Wolf and Max, I want
to ask you guys both, so a lot of times
we'll see you know, the thought is, hey, a certain
receiver will be better as a slot receiver. A guy
who is a really good, you know, four to three
rush and might not be a good fit on a
three to four, right, So you want certain personnel for
(27:46):
certain schemes. My question for both of you guys along
the offensive line, we're seeing it seems to me again
more zone blocking than we're seeing trapping and pulling in
that sort of thing. Does the scheme make a difference
to the offensive lineman? Are you looking for certain guys
who fit certain schemes or can can offensive lineman block?
(28:08):
No matter what the scheme, how important is the scheme
and the personnel marrying together for offensive linemen?
Speaker 7 (28:16):
Well, I will say, if you want to go all
the way back to the eighties seventies, okay, Chuck Nole,
we never had anybody over sixty three. You know why
because we ran such an intrinsic a trapping game that
I mean essentially off we come off the bus trapping. Okay,
I mean we're trapping everything. You pull the center, you
pull the guards, pull the tackle, wham with the tight ends,
(28:36):
what have you. The fact of the matter was they
it was Chuck's philosophy that you had to be an
under an up guy. You couldn't if you're six five
sixty six. It's tough for you to bend to get
underneath linebackers on two and three traps. If you're that tall,
you know you're not gonna have that leverage. So that
was in my mind. Yes, that was all about.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (29:00):
Players were designed for or you got players for the scheme.
You didn't. You couldn't have six to eight guys like Max.
Speaker 7 (29:06):
It would be tough for him to pull turn up
in the hole and then have some guys six two
six ' one trying, you know, meeting him in the
hole and he's got to try to bend and get under.
But you put him in a zone blocking scheme and
some of the man blocking schemes where you got all
that hamhock power that Max has got and design that that. Yeah,
he fits that perfectly. So that's kind of like the
(29:28):
obvious thing about it. You can still run some quick
traps on the inside, and I think Isaac runs them fine.
I think Mason's going to be fine with it. It's
just a situation of getting used to it. But those
zone blocking schemes and so forth, that's what everybody runs nowadays.
You know, whether it's inside outside, the duo blocks all
that stuff, it's everybody runs pretty much the same thing.
(29:49):
It's finding guys that work well together and have the
right body circumference, which obviously means you got to be big.
Speaker 6 (29:56):
And real quick.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
To expand on Rob's question, from my understanding, I've never
done that. You guys have zone blocking schemes, take more reps,
you know, more knowing the guy next to you, more timing,
and they haven't had any of that, you know, in terms.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
Of who's on the field.
Speaker 8 (30:10):
You know.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah, it's a trust thing when you run zone because
you're you're because the difference between zone and man is
area versus person. And when you're in a zone blocking scheme,
if we're working Quotelo, I'll just call it a slip
block on the back side, meaning we're taking the down
line in two of us and one of us works
to the back or whether he blits his black side
(30:31):
to create a cutback lane or whether he fast flows
over the top. Now that guy has to be quicker
on the front side. I will say this offensive I
was gonna say offensive lineman. Nowadays it matters who your
running back is and understanding what your running back sees.
So it's more of a marriage of the offensive line
with the running back versus the offensive line to the
(30:53):
scheme nowadays and.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
Thinking in no greater terms do you need to go
than leve Bell? Yeah, And leve Bell was the perfect
for the guy to just say, hey, look this is
the guy that sets up his offensive line, who understood
the second level guys and understood about the need of
patience sometimes and letting a whole develop.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
The best thay I've I can ever remember is like
when Mike Shanahan was with Denver. We're playing in altitude.
Everyone's going to be gassed. So we won two hundred
and seventy pounds. Linemen that are quick out of their
stance and they move together as one and they're never
going to get tired. And give me Clinton Portis who
will stick us foot in the ground and find a
crack and go.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Terrell Davis, Yeah, right, or another one a guy who's like,
I'm reading everything at the line of scrimmage and once
I see my hole, I'm hitting it one hundred miles
an hour to miles zone and we just yeah, we
have different guys for that. We have a lot of
different personnel types in that running back room, especially when
you think Cordero to Jalen to Nause, all three are different.
So you would think you would cater the run scheme
(31:52):
to each of those guys strengths because you have that
versailit because office line is going to block it regardless.
They just need to know who's back there and what
we're running at. That given time.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
All right, much more to get to, including special teams
and including an historic night, which we will get to
when we continue in the point after on this stee
there's audio network back.
Speaker 8 (32:10):
To the point after on DVE.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Snap back to Prescott looking looking out to the left.
Has time now he doesn't have time. The ball is
out and it's gonna be recovered. Well, that's either still
battling for herbig comes away with it and give half
a sack to Trent Jordan TJ.
Speaker 8 (32:30):
What that is?
Speaker 4 (32:31):
Career sack number one hundred for him.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
He has entered the history books as the second fastest
to ever get one hundred sacks. And the Sack Hunger
segment is brought to you by the Greater Pittsburgh Community
Food Bank. Get food, volunteer or donate at Pittsburgh Food
Bank dot org. Matt Williamson TJ. Watt is he's a great,
(32:56):
great football player.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
He's a great, great football player. And this is last week.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
I've been asked a bunch of where's the stack on
the Steeler defensive All time list, and you know, crazy
things like that. And I think if he never played
another down he would be a Hall of Famer today.
And with all respect to Reggie White, who's unbelievable, who
has the record for reaching one hundred sacks. Reggie White
got to play his formidable years in the USFL. He
(33:20):
came into the NFL as a full grown man, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 8 (33:23):
He left as a full grown man.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
Yeah, I can just say that from experience, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
So, Matt, I did want to ask you about about
special teams. But as long as we're on TJ Watt, Max,
you want to weigh in on the greatness of TJ.
Speaker 8 (33:43):
I'm glad I'm retired. That's number one.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Glad that he would have been a teammate of mine
versus an adversary. But no, I think when you think
of the greatness that is TJ. Watt like, he steps
up in those big moments and he never shies away
from the limelight. When the play needs to be made,
he can usually do it as long as he's not
being held by two and three guys and not getting
it and not getting a flag for it. I think
(34:08):
you know what TJ brings, the intimidation that he brings
to offensive tackles and opposing offenses. They have to pay
particular attention to him. He is a guy that's a
focal point. When you look across the ball, you need
to say a where is ninety B? Where is thirty nine?
And then usually what comes it? Oh, my god, ninety
seven still here. You know, it's that sequential type of
(34:33):
formidability that they present. And would you know that you
have to play essentially with ten guys being available versus
eleven because you're going to dedicate one extra guy than
what's necessary to TJ Watt on any given play. That
usually makes your defensive job a lot easier. And the
problem is all of those support guys have been injured
(34:54):
because Alex Heismith was one of those guys that provided
that secondary impact to where you're like, man, we have
to get past this initial push of and phase of
guys and herbig came in and was giving you that
same Alex Heighsmith type of production until he got injured
in the game. And I think that allows you to
focus in on well, you know there's lesser talent on
the other side. You can then focus your attentions the
other way and they just wore TJ.
Speaker 8 (35:16):
Down in the game.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
But he is truly a difference maker and an X
factor for any team, and thank.
Speaker 8 (35:23):
God he is a Pittsburgh Steeler.
Speaker 6 (35:26):
They don't have herbig Leal or high Smith.
Speaker 8 (35:29):
Next week.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
That's gonna be a four guys blocking him.
Speaker 8 (35:34):
Yeah, overload.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
It is gonna be a chore. And and the question
does come up, and you're hearing it more and more.
But I think that you know, at some point, you know,
you can only be so great, right and if you're
being mentioned with you know, Joe Green and Troy Polamalu
Wolf and you know Mel Blont, I mean, the list
goes on and on first year, there's great and I
(36:03):
just think to fit comfortably in that group is an
awfully good place to be.
Speaker 7 (36:08):
There's no question about it. I mean, you watch that
young man compete out there, and you'll love the fire.
I mean, that's the first thing you feel coming off
of man. The dude is on fire. And when he's
at it, when he's at his best, it's a full
flame on like that guy in the Fantastic I mean,
it's just.
Speaker 8 (36:26):
It's really amazing to watch.
Speaker 7 (36:28):
And you see, you know, look at I mean TJ
is wide, he's six four two fifty something like that. Yeah,
you see these giant six foot eight guys looking around
when they come out that first snap.
Speaker 8 (36:39):
And they're going, Okay, do I got the wall? Do
I got the chip? Do I got the running back?
Over here? You'll keep it all, you.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Know, Hey, hey, tight end, tight end?
Speaker 8 (36:48):
You know what I'm tight? You're not loose splitting out exactly.
Speaker 7 (36:51):
I mean it's really funny because the intimidation factor that
he brings with him, because he will come.
Speaker 8 (36:57):
Out of nowhere.
Speaker 7 (36:58):
It's it's like he'll ghost move a guy, he'll go
run through a guy, he'll duck into the inside. He's
got all his his trapping hands work that he does
when he runs the arcane, and he's got this football IQ.
Remember the the interception he had last year when he
dropped back and you know, things like that. You go, wow,
that's that's football on another level. You know, I'm a
(37:20):
checkers guy. He's he's at that with that three piece
Chinese checkers chest whatever it.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Ish, Chinese checkers multi dimensional, it looks like yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
You know, okay, so yes, the intimidation factor, the greatness
factor that he is a Steelers all time great factor,
all that's wonderful. Before we put a rap on this game,
I did want to Matt bring up one more thing,
because I think by and large this was a plus
for the Special Special Teams. You know, the net for
(37:53):
weight and it was only forty point four. There was
a touchback in which Edmunds, you know, almost got the ball.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
He was in.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Really good position and it just skipped past him. I
don't know if he lost his footing or lost sight
of the ball, but I thought Weightman did a nice
job punting. You know, Turpin got one kickoff return for
thirty eight yards. Anytime that guy touches the ball, if
you're not a Cowboys fan, and we were not Cowboys fans,
that's for sure, it is you are holding your breath
(38:21):
because he is just so electric. So all things considered,
and then you block a field go And now I'm
looking at Anger. Anger had one punt yesterday. The Cowboys
punted once in this game. That's not the Special Teams
unit's fault. I thought, when you throw the block, uh,
you know field goal in there, and you know Boswell
being accurate with his kicks, that this was a you know,
(38:43):
the AFC Player of the Month, Special Teams Player of
the Month, Chris Boswell. I think that this has to
be looked at as one area that the Studers, I
think unequivocally would have to say, yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
It was a positive in this game.
Speaker 5 (38:58):
And I was really excited to watch Johnston, especially from
what we've seen at Punters in the last couple of years,
because I thought he was going to be a real
weapon and weightman is good. I mean, certainly improvement over
the last couple of years. And I one hundred percent
agree with everything you said. But that Aubrey character for
Dallas is pretty decent too, And I was really intrigued
(39:18):
with his kickoffs. I mean, I would have loved to
see Quardall Patterson be actually able to return a kick.
He should Before this game, the Steelers have returned one
kick all year. They just plasted out of the end zone.
But Aubrey has that funky lands it in the zone
every time, makes it tough on you, which is a
really interesting strategy I think other kickers are going to
adapt to. But boy, wouldn't have been nice have Quarterrell,
(39:39):
you know, returning one two or even Warren you know.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
By the way, I hope more teams do it because
it adds much want to add a play. By the way,
my apologies to all English teachers. I think I threw
a b in the word unequivocal. I think I made
it unequivocable.
Speaker 6 (39:56):
Or none of us have ever bought the name or anything.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
We're all looking for well, looking for that away right
now to come inf So guys is to their's head
on the road, and you know, we don't want to
have to dig too deep into this matchup other Wolf
(40:19):
and to say that this just feels like an important
game at this point of the season, because you don't
want losing to become a habit. You've lost two games
that you've had opportunities to win. I think that you
go four and two and you're flying back across the
country with two more primetime games coming up to close
(40:39):
out October, and you're feeling pretty good about where you are.
Speaker 8 (40:44):
So you're asking me about the Rays, you know, I.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Ask you about the importance of the game.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
And by the way, another great rivalry game, right exactly,
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (40:54):
You know, when the Cowboys would come off.
Speaker 7 (40:56):
Of the eighties, that was was big the seventies, and
now the Raiders, who you know, that's another team that
I hate.
Speaker 8 (41:03):
It's trying to get right now.
Speaker 7 (41:08):
But the point is, yes, this is a very important game.
This is a game where look at you've you've now
stacked you stacked three wins together. Now you've stacked two
losses together. You don't want to continue the losses. Those
things are as infectious as COVID for crying out loud,
you know, And so you want to make sure you
stop the bleeding. And you got to stop the bleeding
this week. This is a great opportunity against the Raiders
(41:31):
team and I think you can get after. But at
the same point in time, I thought you're gonna get
after the Cowboys.
Speaker 8 (41:36):
Too, you know.
Speaker 7 (41:37):
So the challenge is before them and they yes, and
like you said, but you know what, here's the beauty
of it.
Speaker 8 (41:43):
They can do it.
Speaker 7 (41:44):
I mean it's right there in front of them, and
they've got to put together their best performances and collectively
do it as a team.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Well I was just waiting for it. Yeah, you're waiting
for that great team performance. We've seen phases and separate points,
but we haven't seen the entire team, all three fase
that's gonna come play play in concert with each other.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
You know.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
I think that one of the things, uh that is
One of the many, many things it's so cool about
the Steelers is to have these rivals. When you think
about rivalries mostly you're thinking about teams within the division.
You know, histories that go way back. You know, the
the Packers and the Bears, the Rams and the forty
(42:25):
nine ers out west. You know, anybody in the the
NFC East, the Cowboys, the Eagles, the Giants, the Red Well, sorry,
the Command yeah now the well well done, Max, thanks
for looking out. But you know, we talked about the
Steelers Cowboys rivalry. You know, they've only played now thirty
(42:46):
four times in their history, including the playoffs. That's not
a lot of meetings. The Steelers and Ravens, you know,
have have played more than that in a in a
shorter period of time because they're in the same division.
But it's not a conference versus conference Max Stevens versus Cowboys,
which makes that unique. But it is also not a
(43:07):
divisional game. It's not an opponent you see every single year,
and yet the enmity between the two sides continues to
exist and it is a great rivalry. We talked in
the pregame yesterday about the Cowboys and the Steelers being
different styles, right, a boxer versus a slugger.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Well, this is two teams kind of like the Steves
and Ravens, you know that would fight in the phone
booth because that's the kind of styles that they play.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean, you know, Steelers Cowboys was
Hatfields and McCoy's of NFL. You know, it's just it's
a deep rooted historical rivalry. And like you said, it
stends back to an era when they played in Super
Bowls and they got and the Steelers got the better
of them. Early Cowboys come back, they get their one
(43:54):
punch in the nineties and there was an argument over
who was America's team, and you know that whole conjecture
that went on. So there was all these little animosity
moments that would bleed into that historical relevance of only
seeing each other once every four years. And you had
the additional opportunity and also both of these teams are
(44:15):
the top two all time and playing in primetime. You know,
Cowboys have one hundred and six stealers played in ninety eight.
Now they both have one extra to add to that
after last night or this morning, however you want to
count it. And that's what I think is is is
what breeds that It breeds across decades, it breeds across
family generations. You know that disgust comes in and it
(44:37):
only continues to further anebriate itself and just come to
a head all the time every time they see each other.
But like you said, another one, and the rivalry is
going to be this Raider squad is going to be,
you know, as Al Davis versus the Chief, AFL versus
NFL merger, the Bad Boys versus the Golden Boys. However
(44:58):
you want to look at it, it's always been a
crux and they've always met at critical junctures in those
seventies and eighties, and it's been a slugfest. And it's
going to be interesting to see how we deal with
the rebound of going off a one rivalry game and
going into the next rivalry game.
Speaker 6 (45:15):
Matt, so I do urge people to check it out.
Speaker 5 (45:18):
It's a little after the fact, but Dale wrote a
great article on Steelers dot Com. Just like since the
merger in nineteen seventy, the Dallas has the most division titles.
Since then, Steelers or second Steelers have the most wins.
Dallas a second, there's just all this long list where
they're the top two winningest organization since the seventies, and
kind of put a bow on and look the next
(45:40):
week too. I mean, I was born in nineteen seventy three,
and by the time I was probably five years old,
it was ingrained to me that the team you hate most,
Matt is the Raiders. Then it's the Cowboys. Then we'll
worry about the Oilers and the Bengals and the Browns.
Later we got them under control.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yeah, good stuff, can't wait. Guys, Thank you very much.
Special guest star Max Starks.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
Max thinks you're.
Speaker 8 (46:03):
Being with us my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Gear up with the latest game day necessities the Official
Steelers Pro shops. Get the latest sideline apparel, jerseys, terrible towels,
authentic memorabilia, and custom exclusives you can only find directly
from the team. Visit one of the Official Steelers pro
shops located at Akroscher Stadium, Grove City, Premium Mountlets, or
Tanger Outlets, or gear up online at shop dot Steelers
(46:28):
dot com. For Matt Williamson, Max Starks, Craig Wolfley, I'm
Rob King. Thanks for listening to the point after on
the Steelers Audio Network,
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