Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Up doc.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
A good morning. Please join me in the call to
(02:41):
worship Loving God. Your Holy Spirit formed us as the
body of Christ to serve you and your people in
this world. Yet many times throughout history we have failed
at that task. So you sent new prophets to challenge
us to reform and change your church. People like Martin Luther,
(03:05):
Julian of Norwich, John Calvin, John Knox, Hildegarde of Benjon
Francis of Assissi, Susannah and John Wesley, Martin Luther, King
Mother Teresa, and many more. Thank you for their gifts,
for the lessons they teach us, and for the reminder
(03:26):
they give us that you always make things new. Wash
us with your spirit, reforming God, and help us to
truly think, speak, and act in the new ways you
are offering us.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Sc student s s SS.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Pray with me, Dear Lord, Thank you for the fall
and the collar earth leave. Thank you for the change,
the chance to be together on this day. Yeah as Jesus,
as Jesus told us, sus to pray. Yeah, our Father
(07:14):
who aren't in heaven, her name thora Kingdom, how that
would be then on our faces in heaven Gus Tuesday,
they leave your bread and for give us. She transpassed
against us and the coation, but liverse for me.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Fer how.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I'd like to write the children down at this time, Please.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
S schools S.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
S as.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
It's some.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
Sign s S S.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
S.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
It's s S S S S.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
S S S.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
S S S.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
What's which birth me? Dear Heavenly Father, thank you for
this beautiful fall day. Thank you for the opportunity to
(12:04):
gather with fellow believers to worship you. Thank you God
for the many blessings you have given us. Now it
is time for us to give back to you. I
pray we do so faithfully and joyfully. You said, if
we do, you will throw open the floodgates of heaven
and pour out your blessings. I pray our offerings will
(12:26):
be a blessing and will further your kingdom in Jesus' name. Amen.
Speaker 7 (13:19):
The situation was dire. The church in Jerusalem was in trouble. Now,
the church in Jerusalem was sort of the epicenter of
the early Church. It was where everyone looked to get
the direction the church would be going. So because of that,
(13:40):
lots of visitors came and were constantly there, drawing on
the resources of that church, and being in Jerusalem, the
church was constantly under persecution and challenges that happened to
us every day, so they were in trouble. Titus had
(14:01):
been given the task to go and gather the gift,
the gift from all the other churches that would help
the church in Jerusalem to continue the ministry of the
early Church.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
And so Titus had gone.
Speaker 7 (14:17):
He had been to Macedonia, and he had gotten the
gift there, and he was continuing on.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
And as he was continuing on to.
Speaker 7 (14:26):
The Church of Corinth, Paul wrote a letter, his second
letter to that church. Now Paul was not above using
both shame and flattery, so he knew that if he
told them of the wonders of the Church of Macedonia,
(14:49):
that that might encourage the church at Corinth in their generosity.
So here is what he wrote in Second Corinthians eight
three through seven. For I testify that they gave as
much as they were able, and even beyond their ability,
(15:13):
entirely on their own. They urgently pleaded with us for
the privilege of sharing in this service to the Lord's people,
and they exceeded our expectations. They gave themselves, first of
all to the Lord, and then, by the will of
(15:33):
God also to us. So we urged Titus, just as
he had earlier made a beginning, to bring also to
completion this act of grace on your part. But since
you excel in everything, in faith, in speech, in knowledge,
(15:58):
in complete earth blessness, in the love we have kindled
in you, see that you also excel in this grace
of giving. A couple of weeks ago, we had our
annual budget presentation. In it, we looked at the past,
(16:21):
the present, and the future of our church. I am
aware that there is some level of concern about this
in our congregation. I hope this morning to both alleviate
it and increase it. First, let me assure you that,
(16:45):
thanks to the generous saints of this church, we are
financially sound. Over the last ten years, we have actually
only had one year where our spending so exceeded our
giving that we significantly impacted our reserves. Furthermore, we've been
blessed beyond the annual budgets with legacy gifts, where those
(17:11):
who have been longtime members of this church have left
behind a gift that would enabled the ministry of this
church to continue. And we have been blessed by that
fifth Avenue is financially able to continue our ministry in
our community and the world. But now I must go
(17:34):
to medline. While it is true that we've been even
on giving and spending, it's mostly due to the fact
that we're spending a lot less.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Again.
Speaker 7 (17:46):
Using those ten years, our giving has dropped nearly every year.
We simply have not stayed as committed to the Biblical
mandate of generosity as we need to. You might think
that we have simply lost some of our major givers. Instead,
(18:07):
it appears most of the drop is in the more
occasional giver. We simply seem less committed to Paul's call
in Second Corinthians to excel in this grace of giving.
So how do we excel at giving well? Cecil Sherman,
(18:31):
who's a former interim pastor of ours, suggests this.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
He says, giving.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
Is rarely conditioned on how much money you have. The
gift is conditioned on how much heart the giver.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
Has for the cause.
Speaker 8 (18:56):
So I ask you today to see that all that.
Speaker 7 (19:00):
Has around you in this church, the ministries we do,
like the children and the daycare and the youth, the
music we get to enjoy, the organ and the choir
and all that goes on and the absolute majesty of
worship in this room. And I want to challenge you
(19:24):
on something. I want to challenge you to think about
the ministries that you have been a part of in
this church. And I want you to think about how
they have impacted your heart, how have they changed you
in so many ways? And when you do that, I
(19:45):
want you to consider how much is that worth.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
To your soul? Where is your heart? And how is
your giving?
Speaker 7 (20:03):
Following that?
Speaker 8 (20:05):
Thank you?
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Will you join me in prayer? Or Gracious God, on
this Reformation Sunday, we gather as a congregation that has
met in this city for over one hundred and fifty years.
We have our own history. And while this Sunday in
(20:32):
the church calendar remembers the church's history for hundreds of years,
we are mindful how you have been reforming the church
since the beginning of its existence nearly two thousand years ago.
That as the church became stale, or as it became
(20:55):
irrelevant to the needs of its communities, you sent profits,
You spent pastors, you sent people with their faith on
fire to awaken the church to what it needs to
do in the New Age. We remember this week because
(21:17):
a little over five hundred years ago, one of your servants,
a monk named Martin Luther, pounded a statement of ninety
five ideas or theses onto the Wittenberg Church door, and
(21:38):
it awakened your church in new ways. For our own congregation,
we share this street with other congregations, Disciples of Christ, United, Methodist, Presbyterian,
Episcopal Congregational. All of our churches on this street of
(22:05):
downtown Huntington are here because of the Reformation, how your
church began anew. We ask a God that you continue
to reform your church, and we pray this. We pray
(22:28):
not just for the Capital C Universal Church, but for
our church, our congregation in these days of transition. May
you be working in us to be reflecting on what
works at Fifth Avenue and what needs to change, and
(22:51):
what new ideas of ministry should we be open to
as we prepare to call a new pastor. You are
always moving in time, o Lord, reforming your congregations and
churches around this world over the centuries. Remind us too
(23:17):
that we are in need of reform, that we have
to be open to your spirit or we will become
irrelevant and time will pass us by open us to
your spirit and to your guidance. O Lord, make us
be hungry for the ministry of the next decade you
(23:40):
have for us, and help us not to rest on
the nostalgia of what we have done on this day.
O Lord. We are cognizant and aware of those in
our church family who are who need need your strength
(24:02):
to recover from surgery or through illness. In particular, we
want to remember the family of Nancy Robertson. In particular,
Molly and her father are O, who've been a continuing
part of this congregation, were thankful for the rest of
(24:23):
their family that's now here supporting him on this short term.
Bless them as they walk through this valley of the
shadow of death, and may they sense your presence in
these days of hurt. We lift up Jennifer Farror and
her family as they grieve the death of her mother Mary.
(24:48):
We ask your grace upon them in their moments of pain.
May we comfort them and the moments where they feel isolate,
maybe be a presence for them. We ask your grace
upon all of us who are hurting in various ways,
(25:11):
with prayers maybe too personal for us to share. You
know us. We ask for your peace, and your blessing
and your strength. All these prayers offer in the name
of Jesus Christ, who knows us better than anyone in
the world.
Speaker 8 (25:31):
In Christ, we pray ah Man.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
Our mainuscripture textas Morning comes from the book of Malachi.
It is not one I bet you read very often,
So if you can't find it, just find Matthew. Many
of us spend times in the New Testament, so we
find Matthew and then go back on. Malachi is the
last book of the Hebrew Bible. So Malachi chapter three,
(25:57):
verses six through twelve.
Speaker 8 (26:02):
For I the Lord did not change.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Therefore you, o, children of Jacob, have not perished ever
since the days of your ancestors. You have turned aside
from my statues and have not kept them. Return to me,
and I will return to you, says the Lord of Hosts.
(26:25):
But you say, how shall we return? Will anyone rob God?
You are robbing me? But you say how are we
robbing you? In your tithes and offerings. You are cursed
with a curse, for you are robbing me. The whole
nation of you. Bring the full tithe into the storehouse,
(26:50):
so that there may be food in my house, and
thus put me to the test, says the Lord of Hosts.
See if I will open the windows of heaven for
you and poured down for you an overflow of blessing.
I will rebuke the locust for you so that it
(27:13):
will not destroy the produce of your soul, and your
vine in the field shall not be barren, says the
Lord of Hosts. Then all nations will count you happy,
for you will be a land of delight, says the
Lord of Hosts. Here ends the reading of God's Holy Word.
(27:33):
May God bless it for our hearing and understanding. It
sounded too good to be true, and so with a
skeptic's assurance, I probed for truth. But given the fact
(27:53):
that I was a snotty nose junior high student, my
questioning was treated a bit more or less as a
new sense and not as an actual search for truth,
which it was as least as much as junior high
or middle school students can search for truth. My Bible
(28:19):
study leader at Camp Cowan was talking to the group
about giving, and he held up the tithe as the
biblical standard. A tithe, which Rachel showed you literally means
a tenth is utilized numerous times in the Hebrew Bible
as a norm forgiving, and when most people talk about
(28:46):
a number about how much they seek to give, a
tithe is usually the standard they choose. Even if they
don't reach it, they still reach for that level. Caught
attention to this whole study when he said, my wife
and I are committed to increasing our giving every year,
(29:09):
and we commit it at the beginning of the year
when our church does a pledge drive, and then we
try to reach that and we're not sure how this happens,
but every year that we commit to give more money,
more money comes in for us to give that much. Well,
(29:33):
I was hooked. If you give more, you make more.
I wanted to find out if this was true, because
that would be great if it was true. But even
in my seventh grade mind, it sounded too good to
be true. What do you mean more money comes in
(29:58):
if you commit to give mo more money, I said
to him. Well, for instance, he said, maybe I'll get
to do more weddings or funerals in which I'm paid
extra for those. He replied, you mean God kills more
people in your church so that you can make more
(30:21):
money by doing their funerals, so you can put it
in the offering plate. No, Tim, he said, as he
shuffled war for words. And at this point my questioning
became a nuisance. God's not killing people in my church
or your church or anybody's churches, so people can do
(30:43):
more funerals and give more money. My hand shot up again.
He wasn't biting. Let's give somebody else a chance to
ask some questions, he said, But the rest of my
Bible said. A group at camp count They were silent.
Speaker 8 (31:03):
They didn't say a word. They wanted to see whether
this was going to go.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Okay, Tim, he relented, Well, I just don't give this
hole make give more money and get more money thing.
I mean, if that was really true, if you would
just give a million dollars, then you become a millionaire.
Speaker 8 (31:25):
Everyone would do it right, And wouldn't that.
Speaker 6 (31:31):
Take the meaning away from giving if that was the case,
I asked. Unfortunately, I really don't remember what happened next
in the conversation.
Speaker 8 (31:44):
Maybe he said it's time for lunch. I think I
better let you guys go, and you better go into your.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
Groups and be a big group. Or maybe he answered seriously,
I don't remember only The only recollection I have was
that I was disappointed in what he said. He had
peaked my imagination as a junior high student, and I'm
thankful for that because over the years I've done my
(32:10):
own deeper study in this sense, because a lot of
people talk like this. Right, he placed this idea in
my head that if you give money away, you'll get
more in return, which I found to be a fantastic idea,
even though he couldn't.
Speaker 8 (32:30):
Tell me exactly how that happened.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
He wasn't the first to work on that idea. The
passage we read from Malachi said exactly that. Didn't it
bring the full tithe into the temple and thus put
me to the test, The Lord said, and see if
(32:56):
I don't open the windows of heaven and out an
overflowing of blessing upon you. Notice that in the passage
God even says, I'll take care of the problems that
keep you from making money. I'll stop the bugs the
locusts from eating your crops. There it is, folks, this
(33:22):
is a key verse for the prosperity gospel. Just give
to this ministry and God will bless you with overflowing blessings.
We're in television evangelist territory.
Speaker 8 (33:38):
What does Malachi mean.
Speaker 6 (33:41):
When he says the windows of Heaven will be open?
Was that youth minister at Camp Callen right? Was Malachi
does giving pay dividends? Malachi was written around four hundred BC,
(34:08):
give or take a few decades, in a time called
the Second Temple period, because this was after the Jewish
exiles returned from Babylon and began to try to rebuild
their society in Jerusalem, and the Temple was one of
the things they rebuilt. The Second Temple. Malachi was written
(34:34):
around the time that Ezra and Nehemiah, along with Haggai
and Zacharia written. And there are two realities that are
in the backtop of all those books that the nation
of Israel faced as they returned to Jerusalem and Judah
and began rebuilding their civilization. One was, even though they
(34:58):
had been freed from exiles, the Persian emperor who had
destroyed and take conquered the Babylonian Empire, he gave all
exiles a chance to return to their homelands. Jews included.
While they had been free to return to Judah and Jerusalem,
they were not free to govern themselves. The Persian emperor
(35:24):
would still be their leader, like it or not. And later,
when the Greeks defeated Persia for hundreds of years while
these books are being written, the Jewish people remained under
occupation of other big empires. They could not choose how
(35:46):
they wanted to live freely. You may remember in your
own American history how the colonists hated being ruled by
the British government from across the ocean. Keep that in
mind when we're thinking about Malachi and these other books
(36:08):
written about that time period. The second reality is that
Jerusalem had been destroyed. It wasn't just that the Babylonians
set fire to buildings and knocked over stone walls. Before
the Babylonian army left that region, they took the live
stock with them. That which they didn't take they slaughtered.
(36:33):
They set fire to the fields, They chopped down the orchards.
They wanted to make sure that Jerusalem would be unlivable
for generations. When the exiles began trickling back some seventy
and one hundred years later, it had been basically unlivable.
The city remained in ruins in rubble. There were a
(36:56):
few family farms that had moved back to the air area,
replanted the vineyards, replanted the orchards, replanted the fields, but
it was a stark difference from what Jerusalem had been.
The rebuilding effort took decades centuries. The hard work and
(37:19):
the decades of poverty and difficulty became a spiritual issue
for the returned exiles and their descendants. They had expected
that by returning to Jerusalem and rebuilding the Temple, by
trying to live their faith as they thought God wanted
to do, that God would bless them with prosperity and
(37:43):
they would enjoy the riches that their grandparents had told
them about. But it didn't arrive. For decades, it didn't arrive,
and this caused a crisis of faith. In the books
Ezra and the Amiyah, we see this in the people's
(38:04):
reaffirmation of God's covenant. They wanted to recommit themselves to
God's covenant, to carrying out God's commands and hoping that
God then would bless them materially with a prosperity that
seemed to be eluding them. Four times in Ezra. In
the Emiah, this happens the first time when they committed
(38:27):
to rebuilding the temple, and then three subsequent times when
the blessings they expected did not arrive. In the book
of Hagi a prophet, the prophet scolds the people for
building their own houses to live in before they built
the temple, the house of the Lord. Hagi says that
(38:48):
this is why they had not prospered. He declares in
the first chapter of Hagi that God in fact had
withheld rain and diminished their crops because they had chosen
in their needs before God's needs. Now, if Hi Guy's
message bothers you, you can take soulace that the prophet
(39:09):
also prophesied that Zerubrabyl, a distant descendant of King David,
would become the Messiah. I'm gonna bet hardly interview ever
remember the name Zerubrabyl. He didn't become the Messiah. So
that that said he's soul ess about Hagui's other message
is where there are all this context that Malakai writes
(39:32):
the words that we just read in worship, bring the
full tithe into the storehouse so there might be food
in my house the temple, and thus put me to
the test, says the Lord of Hosts. See if it's
going to open the windows of heaven and pour out
blessings upon you. I will even rebuke the locust for you,
(39:58):
so that will not destroy your produce, and your vines
and your fields will not be barren. The nations will
call you happy, because you will be a land of delight,
says the Lord of Hosts. Like Higai before him, Malachi
directly connects offerings and ties to farming prosperity. But the
(40:27):
reality is that Israel and Jerusalem remained a poor region
for centuries. By the time Jesus was born. The prosperity
in the region existed only in Roman communities built by
the Empire for their own purposes. The Jewish people remained
(40:51):
a poor and peasant people. No one among the Romans
would have looked at the Jewish people and called them
happy living in a land of delight. They were pitied
by their conquerors and rulers. So why is there there disconnection?
(41:14):
Why is there this disconnection between Malachi's words and the
ancient Jewish experience in the centuries before Jesus. Daniel Gilbert,
in his book Stumbling on Happiness, which I've mentioned to
you before this summer, makes the case that you and I,
(41:37):
as members of the human race are terrible at predicting
what makes us happy. We often think if we have
more money, we'll be happier. When we pursue that, right,
that's one of the things we're thinking. Every commercial on
air tells us that. Right. We think that if we
(41:59):
would have more fun, things will be well for us.
But every study that tests this issue finds that once
people reach a level beyond extreme poverty and can become
to live in the middle class, it doesn't matter if
they have one hundred thousand more dollars, a million more dollars,
(42:22):
ten million more dollars. People don't tend to be happier
than anyone else. We think that maybe if we had
a vacation home or servants that could help take care
of our needs, that we would enjoy life so much more.
But the people who reach the incomes that can have
(42:43):
those things end up being disappointed that they don't offer
them the sustained enjoyment they thought they would. Gilbert does
say that if you really want to know what makes
you happy, look around to see what makes other people happy.
Rather than trying to predict how in the future.
Speaker 8 (43:04):
You could be happy. Look around and see what makes
people happy.
Speaker 6 (43:07):
Talk to people, ask people what really gives you enjoyment?
What do you really love doing? And the answer is
when we talk about that is giving generous giving, whether
that's giving the lemonade stand kid five dollars or ten
(43:30):
dollars for that small cup of lemonade that he has
by the roadside, or handing a homeless person a restaurant
gift card, to working on a habitat house or Ronald
McDonald house, or writing a needed check for a church
or a food pantry. Giving pays dividends, happiness, meaning purpose.
(44:02):
Those are the dividends that giving pays us. I'm not
sure that that camp counselor said that forty five years ago.
Maybe he did, and that just didn't compute with my
seventh grade mind, but I am thankful he helped me
to pursue this question all of my adult life. It
(44:23):
is true that the more you give, the more you get.
It's just not an economic formula. The windows of heaven
are opened and from those poor and overflowing of blessing
when you generously give. It just may not be money
(44:45):
that flows in your hands, but it will be happiness
and a sense of what you did was the right
thing and the joy that comes from doing something with purpose.
You know, when we had our three conversations and you
talked about what made Fifth Avenue great in the past,
and what do you enjoy about our present ministry, what
do you look for the future. Again and again people
(45:07):
kept talking about the mission trips that we have taken
as a congregation, that individuals went and spent weeks of
their lives giving of themselves, or the youth and children's
ministry of this church, and how people have found purpose
and meaning and happiness in giving and serving the children
and youth of our congregation, or serving in all the
(45:29):
different ministries that we have enjoyed supporting in this community.
Megan gave us one example of that today. Many of
you told me what it means to you to work
with Recovery Point or helping out at kriddling. Giving has dividends,
(45:51):
but it's what makes our lives meaningful and joyful is
what they pay us. And let me go off on
one quick tangent. It's not in the manuscript, so you
can pay attention or not if you want to, but
I want to say that I am convinced that youth
and children ministries are vitally important to this church. That
was said in our conversations over and over again. But
(46:14):
I will tell you that right now, we need more
volunteers for both of those ministries, both in working with
our youth and with our children. You know, Rachel Gibson
has not been able to sit in an entire worship
service for years. That's a shame. We need more volunteers
(46:36):
so that occasionally Marsha and Rachel can sit through a
whole service. Now I know in staff meaning, Rachel's going
to tell me after Leo tells his mom what I said.
You weren't supposed to say that. And the best way
for you to understand and get the joy of giving
is to actually do things. Writing a check is important,
(47:00):
and seeing your offering make changes will bring you happiness.
But doing the ministry is where you will know what
the best. That's when the windows of Heaven have been
opened and poured out blessings in my life, and I
think from hearing your stories, that's where your lives have
(47:21):
been blessed. Giving does pay dividends. That's just not measured
by our wallets. It's measured by our hearts. And when
you give those dividends will make you the richest people
in all the world. Ah Man. We end our worship
(47:48):
service in our tradition of having a hymn commitment when
we open our doors a fellowship, and we would invite
you to become a part of this congregation over confessor
of faith in Jesus Christ and a desire to be
a Baptist. I'll tell you right now, Fifth Avenue is
not a perfect church. It produced me and I am
way not perfect. But this is a church that keeps
(48:10):
trying to love God and trying to love one another
and this community. If that's good enough for you, we
would hope you would join us and make us a
better church. Whatever decision you may have. I'll be down
in front of the communion table while we all stand
together and sing him one thirty nine, So she s.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
S six s street s.
Speaker 6 (50:01):
S s.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
S s s s.
Speaker 6 (50:32):
S s s.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
S s s s s s s s S.
Speaker 6 (52:07):
I do hope this has been a great way to
begin your day, and I hope it just as I
said last week, get outside. I mean, it's just spectacular,
isn't it. We have the same weather in Charlotte right now,
and it's spend a couple of days at our lake
house and it's just wonderful. So I hope you're getting
out and enjoying things and being thankful for this life
and this time you've been blessed in, and that out
(52:28):
of your thanksgiving may bring a sense of gratitude and
generous giving to yourself. Friends, as you go back out
into the world, love God with your whole being, your
heart and your mind and your soul and your strength.
And love your neighbor as yourself, which means give yourself
a break sometimes as well. And love your enemies so
(52:56):
that they can become your friends and we can can
transform this world. And as you go, know that God,
the creator of the universe, is already preparing away for you,
and Jesus the Christ walks beside you every step of
the way, and the Holy Spirit, the Love of God
is already swirling around you, protecting and guiding you for
the challenges you face this week.
Speaker 8 (53:17):
So friends, go now in peace, Amen, every.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Member of the same time to time
Up doc.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
A good morning. Please join me in the call to
(02:41):
worship Loving God. Your Holy Spirit formed us as the
body of Christ to serve you and your people in
this world. Yet many times throughout history we have failed
at that task. So you sent new prophets to challenge
us to reform and change your church. People like Martin Luther,
(03:05):
Julian of Norwich, John Calvin, John Knox, Hildegarde of Benjon
Francis of Assissi, Susannah and John Wesley, Martin Luther, King
Mother Teresa, and many more. Thank you for their gifts,
for the lessons they teach us, and for the reminder
(03:26):
they give us that you always make things new. Wash
us with your spirit, reforming God, and help us to
truly think, speak, and act in the new ways you
are offering us.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Sc student s s SS.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Pray with me, Dear Lord, Thank you for the fall
and the collar earth leave. Thank you for the change,
the chance to be together on this day. Yeah as Jesus,
as Jesus told us, sus to pray. Yeah, our Father
(07:14):
who aren't in heaven, her name thora Kingdom, how that
would be then on our faces in heaven Gus Tuesday,
they leave your bread and for give us. She transpassed
against us and the coation, but liverse for me.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Fer how.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I'd like to write the children down at this time, Please.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
S schools S.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
S as.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
It's some.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
Sign s S S.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
S.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
It's s S S S S.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
S S S.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
S S S.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
What's which birth me? Dear Heavenly Father, thank you for
this beautiful fall day. Thank you for the opportunity to
(12:04):
gather with fellow believers to worship you. Thank you God
for the many blessings you have given us. Now it
is time for us to give back to you. I
pray we do so faithfully and joyfully. You said, if
we do, you will throw open the floodgates of heaven
and pour out your blessings. I pray our offerings will
(12:26):
be a blessing and will further your kingdom in Jesus' name. Amen.
Speaker 7 (13:19):
The situation was dire. The church in Jerusalem was in trouble. Now,
the church in Jerusalem was sort of the epicenter of
the early Church. It was where everyone looked to get
the direction the church would be going. So because of that,
(13:40):
lots of visitors came and were constantly there, drawing on
the resources of that church, and being in Jerusalem, the
church was constantly under persecution and challenges that happened to
us every day, so they were in trouble. Titus had
(14:01):
been given the task to go and gather the gift,
the gift from all the other churches that would help
the church in Jerusalem to continue the ministry of the
early Church.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
And so Titus had gone.
Speaker 7 (14:17):
He had been to Macedonia, and he had gotten the
gift there, and he was continuing on.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
And as he was continuing on to.
Speaker 7 (14:26):
The Church of Corinth, Paul wrote a letter, his second
letter to that church. Now Paul was not above using
both shame and flattery, so he knew that if he
told them of the wonders of the Church of Macedonia,
(14:49):
that that might encourage the church at Corinth in their generosity.
So here is what he wrote in Second Corinthians eight
three through seven. For I testify that they gave as
much as they were able, and even beyond their ability,
(15:13):
entirely on their own. They urgently pleaded with us for
the privilege of sharing in this service to the Lord's people,
and they exceeded our expectations. They gave themselves, first of
all to the Lord, and then, by the will of
(15:33):
God also to us. So we urged Titus, just as
he had earlier made a beginning, to bring also to
completion this act of grace on your part. But since
you excel in everything, in faith, in speech, in knowledge,
(15:58):
in complete earth blessness, in the love we have kindled
in you, see that you also excel in this grace
of giving. A couple of weeks ago, we had our
annual budget presentation. In it, we looked at the past,
(16:21):
the present, and the future of our church. I am
aware that there is some level of concern about this
in our congregation. I hope this morning to both alleviate
it and increase it. First, let me assure you that,
(16:45):
thanks to the generous saints of this church, we are
financially sound. Over the last ten years, we have actually
only had one year where our spending so exceeded our
giving that we significantly impacted our reserves. Furthermore, we've been
blessed beyond the annual budgets with legacy gifts, where those
(17:11):
who have been longtime members of this church have left
behind a gift that would enabled the ministry of this
church to continue. And we have been blessed by that
fifth Avenue is financially able to continue our ministry in
our community and the world. But now I must go
(17:34):
to medline. While it is true that we've been even
on giving and spending, it's mostly due to the fact
that we're spending a lot less.
Speaker 6 (17:46):
Again.
Speaker 7 (17:46):
Using those ten years, our giving has dropped nearly every year.
We simply have not stayed as committed to the Biblical
mandate of generosity as we need to. You might think
that we have simply lost some of our major givers. Instead,
(18:07):
it appears most of the drop is in the more
occasional giver. We simply seem less committed to Paul's call
in Second Corinthians to excel in this grace of giving.
So how do we excel at giving well? Cecil Sherman,
(18:31):
who's a former interim pastor of ours, suggests this.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
He says, giving.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
Is rarely conditioned on how much money you have. The
gift is conditioned on how much heart the giver.
Speaker 6 (18:52):
Has for the cause.
Speaker 8 (18:56):
So I ask you today to see that all that.
Speaker 7 (19:00):
Has around you in this church, the ministries we do,
like the children and the daycare and the youth, the
music we get to enjoy, the organ and the choir
and all that goes on and the absolute majesty of
worship in this room. And I want to challenge you
(19:24):
on something. I want to challenge you to think about
the ministries that you have been a part of in
this church. And I want you to think about how
they have impacted your heart, how have they changed you
in so many ways? And when you do that, I
(19:45):
want you to consider how much is that worth.
Speaker 6 (19:52):
To your soul? Where is your heart? And how is
your giving?
Speaker 7 (20:03):
Following that?
Speaker 8 (20:05):
Thank you?
Speaker 6 (20:11):
Will you join me in prayer? Or Gracious God, on
this Reformation Sunday, we gather as a congregation that has
met in this city for over one hundred and fifty years.
We have our own history. And while this Sunday in
(20:32):
the church calendar remembers the church's history for hundreds of years,
we are mindful how you have been reforming the church
since the beginning of its existence nearly two thousand years ago.
That as the church became stale, or as it became
(20:55):
irrelevant to the needs of its communities, you sent profits,
You spent pastors, you sent people with their faith on
fire to awaken the church to what it needs to
do in the New Age. We remember this week because
(21:17):
a little over five hundred years ago, one of your servants,
a monk named Martin Luther, pounded a statement of ninety
five ideas or theses onto the Wittenberg Church door, and
(21:38):
it awakened your church in new ways. For our own congregation,
we share this street with other congregations, Disciples of Christ, United, Methodist, Presbyterian,
Episcopal Congregational. All of our churches on this street of
(22:05):
downtown Huntington are here because of the Reformation, how your
church began anew. We ask a God that you continue
to reform your church, and we pray this. We pray
(22:28):
not just for the Capital C Universal Church, but for
our church, our congregation in these days of transition. May
you be working in us to be reflecting on what
works at Fifth Avenue and what needs to change, and
(22:51):
what new ideas of ministry should we be open to
as we prepare to call a new pastor. You are
always moving in time, o Lord, reforming your congregations and
churches around this world over the centuries. Remind us too
(23:17):
that we are in need of reform, that we have
to be open to your spirit or we will become
irrelevant and time will pass us by open us to
your spirit and to your guidance. O Lord, make us
be hungry for the ministry of the next decade you
(23:40):
have for us, and help us not to rest on
the nostalgia of what we have done on this day.
O Lord. We are cognizant and aware of those in
our church family who are who need need your strength
(24:02):
to recover from surgery or through illness. In particular, we
want to remember the family of Nancy Robertson. In particular,
Molly and her father are O, who've been a continuing
part of this congregation, were thankful for the rest of
(24:23):
their family that's now here supporting him on this short term.
Bless them as they walk through this valley of the
shadow of death, and may they sense your presence in
these days of hurt. We lift up Jennifer Farror and
her family as they grieve the death of her mother Mary.
(24:48):
We ask your grace upon them in their moments of pain.
May we comfort them and the moments where they feel isolate,
maybe be a presence for them. We ask your grace
upon all of us who are hurting in various ways,
(25:11):
with prayers maybe too personal for us to share. You
know us. We ask for your peace, and your blessing
and your strength. All these prayers offer in the name
of Jesus Christ, who knows us better than anyone in
the world.
Speaker 8 (25:31):
In Christ, we pray ah Man.
Speaker 6 (25:36):
Our mainuscripture textas Morning comes from the book of Malachi.
It is not one I bet you read very often,
So if you can't find it, just find Matthew. Many
of us spend times in the New Testament, so we
find Matthew and then go back on. Malachi is the
last book of the Hebrew Bible. So Malachi chapter three,
(25:57):
verses six through twelve.
Speaker 8 (26:02):
For I the Lord did not change.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Therefore you, o, children of Jacob, have not perished ever
since the days of your ancestors. You have turned aside
from my statues and have not kept them. Return to me,
and I will return to you, says the Lord of Hosts.
(26:25):
But you say, how shall we return? Will anyone rob God?
You are robbing me? But you say how are we
robbing you? In your tithes and offerings. You are cursed
with a curse, for you are robbing me. The whole
nation of you. Bring the full tithe into the storehouse,
(26:50):
so that there may be food in my house, and
thus put me to the test, says the Lord of Hosts.
See if I will open the windows of heaven for
you and poured down for you an overflow of blessing.
I will rebuke the locust for you so that it
(27:13):
will not destroy the produce of your soul, and your
vine in the field shall not be barren, says the
Lord of Hosts. Then all nations will count you happy,
for you will be a land of delight, says the
Lord of Hosts. Here ends the reading of God's Holy Word.
(27:33):
May God bless it for our hearing and understanding. It
sounded too good to be true, and so with a
skeptic's assurance, I probed for truth. But given the fact
(27:53):
that I was a snotty nose junior high student, my
questioning was treated a bit more or less as a
new sense and not as an actual search for truth,
which it was as least as much as junior high
or middle school students can search for truth. My Bible
(28:19):
study leader at Camp Cowan was talking to the group
about giving, and he held up the tithe as the
biblical standard. A tithe, which Rachel showed you literally means
a tenth is utilized numerous times in the Hebrew Bible
as a norm forgiving, and when most people talk about
(28:46):
a number about how much they seek to give, a
tithe is usually the standard they choose. Even if they
don't reach it, they still reach for that level. Caught
attention to this whole study when he said, my wife
and I are committed to increasing our giving every year,
(29:09):
and we commit it at the beginning of the year
when our church does a pledge drive, and then we
try to reach that and we're not sure how this happens,
but every year that we commit to give more money,
more money comes in for us to give that much. Well,
(29:33):
I was hooked. If you give more, you make more.
I wanted to find out if this was true, because
that would be great if it was true. But even
in my seventh grade mind, it sounded too good to
be true. What do you mean more money comes in
(29:58):
if you commit to give mo more money, I said
to him. Well, for instance, he said, maybe I'll get
to do more weddings or funerals in which I'm paid
extra for those. He replied, you mean God kills more
people in your church so that you can make more
(30:21):
money by doing their funerals, so you can put it
in the offering plate. No, Tim, he said, as he
shuffled war for words. And at this point my questioning
became a nuisance. God's not killing people in my church
or your church or anybody's churches, so people can do
(30:43):
more funerals and give more money. My hand shot up again.
He wasn't biting. Let's give somebody else a chance to
ask some questions, he said, But the rest of my
Bible said. A group at camp count They were silent.
Speaker 8 (31:03):
They didn't say a word. They wanted to see whether
this was going to go.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
Okay, Tim, he relented, Well, I just don't give this
hole make give more money and get more money thing.
I mean, if that was really true, if you would
just give a million dollars, then you become a millionaire.
Speaker 8 (31:25):
Everyone would do it right, And wouldn't that.
Speaker 6 (31:31):
Take the meaning away from giving if that was the case,
I asked. Unfortunately, I really don't remember what happened next
in the conversation.
Speaker 8 (31:44):
Maybe he said it's time for lunch. I think I
better let you guys go, and you better go into your.
Speaker 6 (31:48):
Groups and be a big group. Or maybe he answered seriously,
I don't remember only The only recollection I have was
that I was disappointed in what he said. He had
peaked my imagination as a junior high student, and I'm
thankful for that because over the years I've done my
(32:10):
own deeper study in this sense, because a lot of
people talk like this. Right, he placed this idea in
my head that if you give money away, you'll get
more in return, which I found to be a fantastic idea,
even though he couldn't.
Speaker 8 (32:30):
Tell me exactly how that happened.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
He wasn't the first to work on that idea. The
passage we read from Malachi said exactly that. Didn't it
bring the full tithe into the temple and thus put
me to the test, The Lord said, and see if
(32:56):
I don't open the windows of heaven and out an
overflowing of blessing upon you. Notice that in the passage
God even says, I'll take care of the problems that
keep you from making money. I'll stop the bugs the
locusts from eating your crops. There it is, folks, this
(33:22):
is a key verse for the prosperity gospel. Just give
to this ministry and God will bless you with overflowing blessings.
We're in television evangelist territory.
Speaker 8 (33:38):
What does Malachi mean.
Speaker 6 (33:41):
When he says the windows of Heaven will be open?
Was that youth minister at Camp Callen right? Was Malachi
does giving pay dividends? Malachi was written around four hundred BC,
(34:08):
give or take a few decades, in a time called
the Second Temple period, because this was after the Jewish
exiles returned from Babylon and began to try to rebuild
their society in Jerusalem, and the Temple was one of
the things they rebuilt. The Second Temple. Malachi was written
(34:34):
around the time that Ezra and Nehemiah, along with Haggai
and Zacharia written. And there are two realities that are
in the backtop of all those books that the nation
of Israel faced as they returned to Jerusalem and Judah
and began rebuilding their civilization. One was, even though they
(34:58):
had been freed from exiles, the Persian emperor who had
destroyed and take conquered the Babylonian Empire, he gave all
exiles a chance to return to their homelands. Jews included.
While they had been free to return to Judah and Jerusalem,
they were not free to govern themselves. The Persian emperor
(35:24):
would still be their leader, like it or not. And later,
when the Greeks defeated Persia for hundreds of years while
these books are being written, the Jewish people remained under
occupation of other big empires. They could not choose how
(35:46):
they wanted to live freely. You may remember in your
own American history how the colonists hated being ruled by
the British government from across the ocean. Keep that in
mind when we're thinking about Malachi and these other books
(36:08):
written about that time period. The second reality is that
Jerusalem had been destroyed. It wasn't just that the Babylonians
set fire to buildings and knocked over stone walls. Before
the Babylonian army left that region, they took the live
stock with them. That which they didn't take they slaughtered.
(36:33):
They set fire to the fields, They chopped down the orchards.
They wanted to make sure that Jerusalem would be unlivable
for generations. When the exiles began trickling back some seventy
and one hundred years later, it had been basically unlivable.
The city remained in ruins in rubble. There were a
(36:56):
few family farms that had moved back to the air area,
replanted the vineyards, replanted the orchards, replanted the fields, but
it was a stark difference from what Jerusalem had been.
The rebuilding effort took decades centuries. The hard work and
(37:19):
the decades of poverty and difficulty became a spiritual issue
for the returned exiles and their descendants. They had expected
that by returning to Jerusalem and rebuilding the Temple, by
trying to live their faith as they thought God wanted
to do, that God would bless them with prosperity and
(37:43):
they would enjoy the riches that their grandparents had told
them about. But it didn't arrive. For decades, it didn't arrive,
and this caused a crisis of faith. In the books
Ezra and the Amiyah, we see this in the people's
(38:04):
reaffirmation of God's covenant. They wanted to recommit themselves to
God's covenant, to carrying out God's commands and hoping that
God then would bless them materially with a prosperity that
seemed to be eluding them. Four times in Ezra. In
the Emiah, this happens the first time when they committed
(38:27):
to rebuilding the temple, and then three subsequent times when
the blessings they expected did not arrive. In the book
of Hagi a prophet, the prophet scolds the people for
building their own houses to live in before they built
the temple, the house of the Lord. Hagi says that
(38:48):
this is why they had not prospered. He declares in
the first chapter of Hagi that God in fact had
withheld rain and diminished their crops because they had chosen
in their needs before God's needs. Now, if Hi Guy's
message bothers you, you can take soulace that the prophet
(39:09):
also prophesied that Zerubrabyl, a distant descendant of King David,
would become the Messiah. I'm gonna bet hardly interview ever
remember the name Zerubrabyl. He didn't become the Messiah. So
that that said he's soul ess about Hagui's other message
is where there are all this context that Malakai writes
(39:32):
the words that we just read in worship, bring the
full tithe into the storehouse so there might be food
in my house the temple, and thus put me to
the test, says the Lord of Hosts. See if it's
going to open the windows of heaven and pour out
blessings upon you. I will even rebuke the locust for you,
(39:58):
so that will not destroy your produce, and your vines
and your fields will not be barren. The nations will
call you happy, because you will be a land of delight,
says the Lord of Hosts. Like Higai before him, Malachi
directly connects offerings and ties to farming prosperity. But the
(40:27):
reality is that Israel and Jerusalem remained a poor region
for centuries. By the time Jesus was born. The prosperity
in the region existed only in Roman communities built by
the Empire for their own purposes. The Jewish people remained
(40:51):
a poor and peasant people. No one among the Romans
would have looked at the Jewish people and called them
happy living in a land of delight. They were pitied
by their conquerors and rulers. So why is there there disconnection?
(41:14):
Why is there this disconnection between Malachi's words and the
ancient Jewish experience in the centuries before Jesus. Daniel Gilbert,
in his book Stumbling on Happiness, which I've mentioned to
you before this summer, makes the case that you and I,
(41:37):
as members of the human race are terrible at predicting
what makes us happy. We often think if we have
more money, we'll be happier. When we pursue that, right,
that's one of the things we're thinking. Every commercial on
air tells us that. Right. We think that if we
(41:59):
would have more fun, things will be well for us.
But every study that tests this issue finds that once
people reach a level beyond extreme poverty and can become
to live in the middle class, it doesn't matter if
they have one hundred thousand more dollars, a million more dollars,
(42:22):
ten million more dollars. People don't tend to be happier
than anyone else. We think that maybe if we had
a vacation home or servants that could help take care
of our needs, that we would enjoy life so much more.
But the people who reach the incomes that can have
(42:43):
those things end up being disappointed that they don't offer
them the sustained enjoyment they thought they would. Gilbert does
say that if you really want to know what makes
you happy, look around to see what makes other people happy.
Rather than trying to predict how in the future.
Speaker 8 (43:04):
You could be happy. Look around and see what makes
people happy.
Speaker 6 (43:07):
Talk to people, ask people what really gives you enjoyment?
What do you really love doing? And the answer is
when we talk about that is giving generous giving, whether
that's giving the lemonade stand kid five dollars or ten
(43:30):
dollars for that small cup of lemonade that he has
by the roadside, or handing a homeless person a restaurant
gift card, to working on a habitat house or Ronald
McDonald house, or writing a needed check for a church
or a food pantry. Giving pays dividends, happiness, meaning purpose.
(44:02):
Those are the dividends that giving pays us. I'm not
sure that that camp counselor said that forty five years ago.
Maybe he did, and that just didn't compute with my
seventh grade mind, but I am thankful he helped me
to pursue this question all of my adult life. It
(44:23):
is true that the more you give, the more you get.
It's just not an economic formula. The windows of heaven
are opened and from those poor and overflowing of blessing
when you generously give. It just may not be money
(44:45):
that flows in your hands, but it will be happiness
and a sense of what you did was the right
thing and the joy that comes from doing something with purpose.
You know, when we had our three conversations and you
talked about what made Fifth Avenue great in the past,
and what do you enjoy about our present ministry, what
do you look for the future. Again and again people
(45:07):
kept talking about the mission trips that we have taken
as a congregation, that individuals went and spent weeks of
their lives giving of themselves, or the youth and children's
ministry of this church, and how people have found purpose
and meaning and happiness in giving and serving the children
and youth of our congregation, or serving in all the
(45:29):
different ministries that we have enjoyed supporting in this community.
Megan gave us one example of that today. Many of
you told me what it means to you to work
with Recovery Point or helping out at kriddling. Giving has dividends,
(45:51):
but it's what makes our lives meaningful and joyful is
what they pay us. And let me go off on
one quick tangent. It's not in the manuscript, so you
can pay attention or not if you want to, but
I want to say that I am convinced that youth
and children ministries are vitally important to this church. That
was said in our conversations over and over again. But
(46:14):
I will tell you that right now, we need more
volunteers for both of those ministries, both in working with
our youth and with our children. You know, Rachel Gibson
has not been able to sit in an entire worship
service for years. That's a shame. We need more volunteers
(46:36):
so that occasionally Marsha and Rachel can sit through a
whole service. Now I know in staff meaning, Rachel's going
to tell me after Leo tells his mom what I said.
You weren't supposed to say that. And the best way
for you to understand and get the joy of giving
is to actually do things. Writing a check is important,
(47:00):
and seeing your offering make changes will bring you happiness.
But doing the ministry is where you will know what
the best. That's when the windows of Heaven have been
opened and poured out blessings in my life, and I
think from hearing your stories, that's where your lives have
(47:21):
been blessed. Giving does pay dividends. That's just not measured
by our wallets. It's measured by our hearts. And when
you give those dividends will make you the richest people
in all the world. Ah Man. We end our worship
(47:48):
service in our tradition of having a hymn commitment when
we open our doors a fellowship, and we would invite
you to become a part of this congregation over confessor
of faith in Jesus Christ and a desire to be
a Baptist. I'll tell you right now, Fifth Avenue is
not a perfect church. It produced me and I am
way not perfect. But this is a church that keeps
(48:10):
trying to love God and trying to love one another
and this community. If that's good enough for you, we
would hope you would join us and make us a
better church. Whatever decision you may have. I'll be down
in front of the communion table while we all stand
together and sing him one thirty nine, So she s.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
S six s street s.
Speaker 6 (50:01):
S s.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
S s s s.
Speaker 6 (50:32):
S s s.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
S s s s s s s s S.
Speaker 6 (52:07):
I do hope this has been a great way to
begin your day, and I hope it just as I
said last week, get outside. I mean, it's just spectacular,
isn't it. We have the same weather in Charlotte right now,
and it's spend a couple of days at our lake
house and it's just wonderful. So I hope you're getting
out and enjoying things and being thankful for this life
and this time you've been blessed in, and that out
(52:28):
of your thanksgiving may bring a sense of gratitude and
generous giving to yourself. Friends, as you go back out
into the world, love God with your whole being, your
heart and your mind and your soul and your strength.
And love your neighbor as yourself, which means give yourself
a break sometimes as well. And love your enemies so
(52:56):
that they can become your friends and we can can
transform this world. And as you go, know that God,
the creator of the universe, is already preparing away for you,
and Jesus the Christ walks beside you every step of
the way, and the Holy Spirit, the Love of God
is already swirling around you, protecting and guiding you for
the challenges you face this week.
Speaker 8 (53:17):
So friends, go now in peace, Amen, every.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Member of the same time to time
Popular Podcasts
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!