Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Hey there Detroit Wheels.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey it's scary.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hey, Gary Graf, the rock and roll insider, I try
to be or or I guess now after what, how
many books have you put out?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Like?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Four books? Now, I guess I got to call you
the rock and roll author.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah, it's more like twelve?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh is that right?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, who's counting?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Right?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I mean among friends? But really twelve books?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Wow? Well?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Congratulations. All right, So you've got the five hundred and
one Essential Albums of the nineties, the music fans definitive Guide.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Boy, I'll tell you. The first thing I thought of, Gary,
is where the hell did you come up with five
hundred and one albums from the nineties. I know it
was a good year, but I didn't know it was
that good. So tell me a little bit about the
work you put into this book here to get things rolling.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, it is an interesting thing. So you you know,
you you may think one thing about a decade, but
by the time we go done making the long list
of more than two thousand potential albums from the nineties
and then having to whittle it down to five oh one,
you realized what you know, that it really was a
(01:13):
prodigious decade for music for all kinds of music. That's
part of part of the volume of it is just
this was this was a decade where not only did
we have strong rock, you know, entering with the vestiges
or what we called the hair metal years and then
getting into what we called grunge and the evolution of that,
(01:36):
but you had all the other genres. Country had an
explosion in the nineties. Pot came back in a big way.
Wrap so you know, to deal with all those forms
of music and say, okay, here's five hundred and one
that represent the decade. That was fun because the first
thing I say in the introduction of the book is
(01:57):
this is a book that's designed to cause ours.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, okay, so yeah, it was at odd time because
you think about the fact that you've got all those
eighties bands that are still trying to stay alive. You've
still got some seventies bands. I would imagine there's got
to be an Aerosmith or two albums in there, and
there is.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, there's an Aerosmith, there's a Spring, there's a Tom
Petty in there. Interestingly, though, Doug only like one from
each of those guys. When you really and they all
had good albums in the eighties or in the nineties,
and the same thing with James Taylor, Jackson Brown, you know,
any number of acts, but if they didn't stack up
(02:38):
as essential in their own catalogs, they weren't essential to
the decade. So that was a very interesting exercise too,
to say, oh, I really liked these three or four
Aerosmith albums, but really there's only get a grip that
we would call essential. Now get into the eighties and
the seventies, and of course it's going to be different.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, there really was explosion, I guess from the record companies,
maybe their last big, you know drop of all of
these great bands, and then it really kind of started
to you know, shrivel up into the two thousands. But
all that new blood that was coming in was really
stirring things up. You know, all those bands, the grunge bands,
(03:19):
the flannel bands, you know, the Pearl Jams and Nirvanas.
I would imagine those have you know, probably risen to
the top of this list and are represented pretty well.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, pretty well, you did. Have you know, a couple
of big Nirvana albums. I think there's three Nirvanas in here,
and maybe three Smashing Pumpkins, a couple of Oasis, three
Pearl Jams, you know, a couple of Sound Gardens. You
have those bands that really did define the decade. And
if you're going to say to somebody, okay, music of
(03:50):
the nineties, you know super Unknown for sure, Melancholy and
The Infinite Sadness definitely, maybe ten and Versus and all
those albums. So you know, you sought, we sought to
strike a balance. But at the same time, you know
asked the hard question, was this an essential album for
(04:11):
the nineties? And it was interesting what we felt did
or didn't stack up. And it'll be interesting to see
what readers think of what our choices, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Are well, a lot of people, you know, when they
look at the nineties, they think of mixtapes. They don't
really think of, you know, full vinyl albums. They think
of putting their own music together. That's kind of when
that all.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Started started, and as the nineties we got to the end.
So my take on this is the nineties were the
last golden decade of the album because even though you
know what you said it is absolutely right about the
rise of the mixtape in the nineties, people were still
buying albums. The number one album on the Billboard two
hundred would sell six hundred, eight hundred thousand, a million copies.
(04:56):
We were still consuming albums, the albums, I think, And
it was really the end of the decade when Napster
and P two P and Yeah, Sharing Yes and those
things started the surface and became in the two thousands,
became the streaming world that we know now, so to
say to me, this was the last gasp of an
(05:19):
album decade. And even in the other genres too, you know,
not just rock now, there's.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Quite there's quite a few genres, as you mentioned. I
didn't think that was going to be in the book.
I thought maybe it was just going to be you know,
rock artists, rock and pop artists. I didn't I didn't
expect the rap and the country. But yeah, when you
think back at it, that's when countries started to really
explode and take off as well. So a lot of
(05:45):
different genres were happening at that time. Wasn't it a
little odd though, to have like bands like Kiss and
ac DC in the nineties, but then one hit wonders
like ever Clear and you know, a will co When
bands like.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
That, Lemon the Lemonheads. I wouldn't call will Co a
one hit wonder because they never really had any hits, Okay,
but they made a lot of good albums all they did. Yeah,
they in the case of Wilco, and you had Uncle,
you know their for Bear, Uncle Tupelo, you know bands
that you know, that's essential because they defined kind of
a you know, Americana and as in the nineties is
(06:23):
when we when we coined Americana to separate like a
band like the early Willco albums, let's say, or sun Volts.
You know, those were not country album per se, so
you need, we needed we needed a way to separate them.
So Americana became its own little genre during the nineties.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Now, I know that Detroit dominated the album scene in
the sixties and even you know somewhat in the seventies
with guys like Seeger and Cooper and and even Ted NuGen.
What were the nineties like for local music here in Detroit?
I know we had Cloud from Sponge.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
We had that album, right, and that's that's it. That's it, okay, Okay,
we did stick a Big Chief album in the book.
If you remember Big Chief, yep, you know that was
that was a tremendous band that that we felt made
made a real morek Qualitatively, there was not was album
in the book. No Seeger or Nugent or you know. Again,
(07:25):
we we stepped back on artists like that and said,
you know, here, here were the albums they made in
the nineties, and well, we may have liked them, they
are not essential albums, either to the nineties or even
to those artists own catalog. Again, seventies and eighties are
going to be different for those guys. We do have
an Alice Cooper album in here, Eminem's in here, Kid
(07:47):
Rock is in here. Okay, So there were there were
some some good some good beacons, you know, but there
wasn't a Detroit movement. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I would have to think though that that Eminem album
probably ranked pretty high on your list.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Well, we didn't rank them, you know, it is by decade.
We we didn't rank them. We just chose five hundred
one album. Oh so we don't. We don't say here's
the number one album of the nineties.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So you don't get a lot of email. And in
a lot of trouble, is that what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
We'll get We'll get enough email that what do you
mean this one's not in. You guys are in it.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Okay, so you know you mentioned a couple, but what
significant album did you leave out and said, boy, you know,
this one's on the fence, but I gotta I gotta
leave it out. Was there a particular band or or
gendre that that fell into that category of I just
can't do it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
None of them, Doug. These are the five hundred one
essential albums of the nineties, and there is no argument. Okay, yeah,
now that's that's my story, and I'm sticking.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And Gary's number is five.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I'm not going to say that that in hindsight, I
might have you know, I'm might have wished i'd put
a Creed album in. I'm not going to say that,
but you know other people might when they when they
see the book. But you know, by and large, I
mean you can. But then when I say something like that,
you go you get into Okay, so which one would
(09:15):
you have taken out to put that one in? And
we really can make and I think in the writing
we do make the case forever all five hundred one
of these albums to the point where it would be well, yeah,
you can't take that one out if the lungs in there.
And by the way, when I say we, you know,
I'm the editor of this book. We had three dozen contributors,
(09:38):
many from Detroit. Many of the writers are from Detroit,
and and you know, so they you know, we parsed
out two different two different writers to do to do entries,
and so it it really is a compendium of opinions
and perspectives. So people will get a different look at
why an album, you know, is why an album was
(10:02):
essential in the nineties. If I write it, then they'll
then they'll get if some of these other people wrote.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
It's hard to believe that there were over two thousand
of these albums though, that you had to sift through.
How long did that take?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
You know, we spent probably the better part of a
month doing it. When the emails, when the emails get flying,
you know, it's it goes quicker than you might think.
And and at a certain point, you know, there was
a date where I had to sit down and say, Okay,
these are the five hundred ones. I've heard all the arguments,
and but these these are the five hundred one one
(10:37):
We're going to do well.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think the timing of this book The Nineties the
Essential Albums of the Nineties is really very timely because
I've seen here recently, you know, some breakouts of some
of the conventions that are going on radio wise around
the country right some of the transcripts and things of
certain panels, and boy oh boy, I mean, is everybody
(11:00):
right now champion the nineties? I mean, I think it's
finally found. It's true spotlight. I know obviously that you know,
over the past few years, even here at Wheels, we've
been playing a lot of nineties rock on a classic
rock station. But now it just seems like it's just
a perfect fit and the audience has fallen right into
(11:24):
you know, demographically that that category two with the nineties.
So was that you're kind of feeling too. As you
were putting this together, you were saying, you know, this
stuff is more relevant now than maybe when it first
came out.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It was where you know, myself and the publisher of
the book, you know, said yeah, this is this is
the place to start, because we could steal that undercurrent
within the book industry too and in all of media.
Now it does feel like thirty years on the nineties,
the nineties are are happening, were happening or happening again,
(12:01):
and you know, for whatever reason, I mean, we went
We've been through the seventies nostalgia, the eighties nostalgia ninety
seems to be clicking again on TV and the movies
and and certainly certainly in music. And there were there
were bands that created music that has that kind of impact,
that's that had that has that those those legs that
(12:24):
there's still be that music is. We're still hearing smells
like teen Spirit and Daughter and you know, so many
of so many of those songs, we're still hearing them now.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And and deeper tracks too. I mean, one of the
things that we found out in radio is that, you know,
some of these albums by Nirvana and Pearl Jam, who
you just mentioned, we might have played one or two songs.
Now we're playing four or five songs from those records
because they're just they they're standing out heads and shoulders
(12:55):
over some of the stuff from the eighties. Who is
now starting to lose its shelf life a little bit.
It was tough to break the seventies mold boy. I'll
tell you that music stood a few decades strong, you know,
But now we start we're starting to see, you know,
some of the seventies fall off, the eighties fall off,
and oh boy, lucky us, here comes the nineties. You know,
(13:19):
bands like ever Clear and and you know, and in
marketing you were just mentioning commercials. You know, you're hearing
songs by Blur that are in you know, media marketing now,
so that's kind of different.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, yeah, and it goes now, it goes to my
point from earlier too, that the nineties was and in
my mind, was the last album decade, you know, and
the people, you know, people listen to their albums and
they love those, They still love those deep tracks, They
have a soft spot for them, and those are still
(13:53):
important songs. So and it's nice because when we do
talk about the two thousands or the twenty ten, I
don't think we're going to be having the same kind
of discussion.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Was there a Paul McCartney nineties album in there.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I don't think that I do not again another one
that we you know, you wring your hands about, and
on that long list of more than two thousand, yeah
they're there, And again just didn't think they were even
those albums that he put out in the nineties you
know what, I take that back, there is I think
(14:28):
Run Devil Run is in here. Oh the Beatles' anthologies.
So I did cheat. I did the Beatles Anthology all
three as one entry. So when I think they are
one piece of work. So I'll defend that, I think
you're right.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Okay, So I'm going to give my thumbs up on that,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
But it was tough to even you know, even like
Motley Crue, Oh boy, you know, did they have an
album ACDC to me, you know, to my mind, did
not have an album in the nineties that was essential
to their catalog, much less to the deck just the
way it was, you know, the way it was.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Well, when you think about some of those early bands
like Motley Crue, I mean they blew out their singer,
they changed their sound, they theytoned everything down, and it
didn't fly. I mean it went over like a lead balloon,
you know, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So it took them a number of years to regroup
and then come back that one until the two thousands
that we got Saints of Los Angeles and a semblance
of Motley Cruez sounding like Motley Crue again.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, So I saw you were at
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremonies, which
is fantastic. Did you see any bands, what bands from
the nineties? Was there any that got recognized this year?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
You know, Dave Matthews band, Okay, you know, they made
they made a bigger you know, they may maybe made
it well, no, they made their splash even in the
in the eighties, but you know, definitely.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
But certainly the nineties.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
A tribe called a tribe called Quest okay, you know,
was inducted. Mary J. Blige began in the nineties. Herself
share had believe in the nineties, which which was a
big deal. So there was you know, there wasn't that
you know, that impact of the nineties at that ceremony.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So we're even starting to see some of that now,
you know, get into the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame as well. Just to you know, take a side
road here. Sure, what was your take on the MC
five induction and how did that go over there at
the Hall?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So they it was warmly received. I do think the
MC five got short shrift in the ceremony because there
was no performance for them. I mean, and if I
were producing the show and again you know, Disney Plus
did and asked me or ABC, how do you not
start a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony
(16:52):
with an all star kick out the jams?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
I did know, you know Pat's blue ribbon right if
you remember the film Blue Velvet? But how do you not?
How do you not do that? But they did, and
I just don't think there was a champion for it,
you know, and the fact that none of the members
were around. Granted there were right, you know, there were
tribute performances for Jimmy Buffett, you know, who wasn't around,
(17:16):
and some others, but they just couldn't you know that
that part to me was a shame. But Tom Morella's
speech in the video were very warmly received at the ceremony,
and there a lot of family members were there for
the guys, and he had friends from Detroit and Brad Brooks,
who was the singer of the most recent version of
(17:37):
the MC five, the one that made the heavy Lifting album,
but he was there and present. So it was represented,
you know, the group was represented, and it was heartening
to see. If you go to Cleveland, if you go
to the museum and go to the new inductees exhibit.
The biggest slot in that exhibit case is for the
MC five. Bigger, bigger than Share, bigger than Frampton, bigger than.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Four because they were so cool.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
They were so cool, Yes, they were so cool. And
also they gave them more stuff. But the stuff they
gave them was really freaking good. Yeah, so, you know,
so that part was nice to see it. It was nice
to see the families enjoying, you know, enjoying after six nominations,
finally getting the band into the hall in some way,
shape or form.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Well, and I know Tom Morello, he you know, certainly
was influenced by the the MC five and and spent
some time here just before Wayne Cramer died, you know,
with him in recording. But I would have liked to
have seen somebody from Detroit, you know, up there representing
the MC five. There's so many people they've could have chosen,
(18:45):
including even you know, Jimmy Osterberg or you know, Iggy
he could have done it. I know Ted Nugent was
begging to do it, and you know he played the
Grandy Ballroom with those guys, so it it.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
There were plenty of a appropriate people like I say,
you know, Disney did it or an ABC didn't ask
me and apparently didn't ask anybody. I mean even with
the people they had there, you know in house, Tom Morello, uh,
you know who would be appropriate. And then you had
you know, Wolfgang van Halen, you had Slash, you had
Steve Stevens, you know with Billy Billy Idols guy. You
(19:20):
had all these great rock musicians there. Chad Smith was there.
You know, these guys could have could have done it,
and I felt, I really did feel bad they didn't,
and it felt like the MC five got a little shit.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Chad Smith would have been a great spots person for them.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Oh yeah, yeah, no, qu yeah, I mean Morell was
Morella did a great job. He had all the right notes.
And you know he's been he's been in them. He's
part of the reason they got that award on Saturdays. Okay,
he's on the nominating committee and he pushed for it.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Oh very good. Well then our hearts are with him, then, okay,
And I'm glad you were out there, you and Stacy.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So I enjoyed it and that you know again Bridge
Bridge to the nineties, you know, Rage against the Machine
with Tom Morello. There's a band from the nineties. That
would not have existed if the MC five and Stooges
and the amboy Dukes hadn't made noise here in Detroit,
or Mitch Rider in the Detroit Wheels hadn't made noise
during the sixties.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That's who we got to get in next.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
You got it the one.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
You got a whisper to Tom Morello.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
You know, Mitch Rider, come on more than whisper. I spoken.
I spoke in a in a in a very audible
voice with him about that. There was a there's a
party they do every year the night before at the museum,
and we had a chance to chat for a while,
and and you know, Mitch and the wheels were were
put forward and he he agreed, Okay, you know, let's hope.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Well, yeah, because you know, you got Jimmy, the Bee,
you got Mitch. They're all still there.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Let's do it right. Well, they're there. Well, they can
still get up and perform. Well, we've all seen these
guys on a stage recently, and they can still do it.
And put him up with some admirers, you know who,
you know, kind of like they did for or foreigner,
you know, put some of their admirers next to them
and kick out the jams for real.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
All right, Well, I'll save our next podcast for the
conversation you had with Ozzie backstage.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
I'm sure I'm still trying to transcribe.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I was just canna say, we still have to transcribe it. Well, Gary,
congratulations on your fiftieth book.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Not fifty, but twelve is pretty good.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Okay, twelve is good.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, before we get off, let me plug two that
on On November thirteenth, sixth at six point thirty, myself
and a number of the Detroit contributors will be at
Schuler's Books in West Bloomfield up there Orchard like in
fourteen mile doing a talk and signing and hope, folks,
it's free and open to the public, and you know, come,
(21:50):
we're gonna we're gonna have some fun and games at that.
So I think I think people will have a really
good time.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Okay, and they can get the book there. Obviously, you can.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Get the book there. You can get the book, you know,
anywhere books are sold up to and including the trunk
of my car.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Okay, well, and I see your car everywhere, so people
can find you and get the book.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
But exactly just if you see me in a red
light's just knock knock on the window and we'll make
it happen.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
All right, man, Well, Gary, congratulations once again you are
the man, the rock and roll insider and covering every decade,
including now the nineties, and people should pick it up because, boy,
you hit me right out of the shoot with it's
not just rock, it's it's all these different genres of music.
And I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
That's that's great everything. Well, thanks for having me for this.
All right, take the support.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
There will be an eighties book in the spring, so
we'll talk about that, okay, all.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right, Well we're gonna we're gonna go backwards.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Now today we're going to start by going back.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
All right, Gary Graff, the rock and roll insider, right
here on the rock Doc podcast with his brand new book,
The five hundred and twenty Central Albums of the Nineties.
Pick it up today.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Thank you, Gary, Thank you, Doug
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Hey there Detroit Wheels.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey it's scary.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hey, Gary Graf, the rock and roll insider, I try
to be or or I guess now after what, how
many books have you put out?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Like?
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Four books? Now, I guess I got to call you
the rock and roll author.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yeah, it's more like twelve?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh is that right?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, who's counting?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Right?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I mean among friends? But really twelve books?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Wow? Well?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Congratulations. All right, So you've got the five hundred and
one Essential Albums of the nineties, the music fans definitive Guide.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Boy, I'll tell you. The first thing I thought of, Gary,
is where the hell did you come up with five
hundred and one albums from the nineties. I know it
was a good year, but I didn't know it was
that good. So tell me a little bit about the
work you put into this book here to get things rolling.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Yeah, it is an interesting thing. So you you know,
you you may think one thing about a decade, but
by the time we go done making the long list
of more than two thousand potential albums from the nineties
and then having to whittle it down to five oh one,
you realized what you know, that it really was a
(01:13):
prodigious decade for music for all kinds of music. That's
part of part of the volume of it is just
this was this was a decade where not only did
we have strong rock, you know, entering with the vestiges
or what we called the hair metal years and then
getting into what we called grunge and the evolution of that,
(01:36):
but you had all the other genres. Country had an
explosion in the nineties. Pot came back in a big way.
Wrap so you know, to deal with all those forms
of music and say, okay, here's five hundred and one
that represent the decade. That was fun because the first
thing I say in the introduction of the book is
(01:57):
this is a book that's designed to cause ours.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, okay, so yeah, it was at odd time because
you think about the fact that you've got all those
eighties bands that are still trying to stay alive. You've
still got some seventies bands. I would imagine there's got
to be an Aerosmith or two albums in there, and
there is.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, there's an Aerosmith, there's a Spring, there's a Tom
Petty in there. Interestingly, though, Doug only like one from
each of those guys. When you really and they all
had good albums in the eighties or in the nineties,
and the same thing with James Taylor, Jackson Brown, you know,
any number of acts, but if they didn't stack up
(02:38):
as essential in their own catalogs, they weren't essential to
the decade. So that was a very interesting exercise too,
to say, oh, I really liked these three or four
Aerosmith albums, but really there's only get a grip that
we would call essential. Now get into the eighties and
the seventies, and of course it's going to be different.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well, there really was explosion, I guess from the record companies,
maybe their last big, you know drop of all of
these great bands, and then it really kind of started
to you know, shrivel up into the two thousands. But
all that new blood that was coming in was really
stirring things up. You know, all those bands, the grunge bands,
(03:19):
the flannel bands, you know, the Pearl Jams and Nirvanas.
I would imagine those have you know, probably risen to
the top of this list and are represented pretty well.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, pretty well, you did. Have you know, a couple
of big Nirvana albums. I think there's three Nirvanas in here,
and maybe three Smashing Pumpkins, a couple of Oasis, three
Pearl Jams, you know, a couple of Sound Gardens. You
have those bands that really did define the decade. And
if you're going to say to somebody, okay, music of
(03:50):
the nineties, you know super Unknown for sure, Melancholy and
The Infinite Sadness definitely, maybe ten and Versus and all
those albums. So you know, you sought, we sought to
strike a balance. But at the same time, you know
asked the hard question, was this an essential album for
(04:11):
the nineties? And it was interesting what we felt did
or didn't stack up. And it'll be interesting to see
what readers think of what our choices, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Are well, a lot of people, you know, when they
look at the nineties, they think of mixtapes. They don't
really think of, you know, full vinyl albums. They think
of putting their own music together. That's kind of when
that all.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Started started, and as the nineties we got to the end.
So my take on this is the nineties were the
last golden decade of the album because even though you
know what you said it is absolutely right about the
rise of the mixtape in the nineties, people were still
buying albums. The number one album on the Billboard two
hundred would sell six hundred, eight hundred thousand, a million copies.
(04:56):
We were still consuming albums, the albums, I think, And
it was really the end of the decade when Napster
and P two P and Yeah, Sharing Yes and those
things started the surface and became in the two thousands,
became the streaming world that we know now, so to
say to me, this was the last gasp of an
(05:19):
album decade. And even in the other genres too, you know,
not just rock now, there's.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Quite there's quite a few genres, as you mentioned. I
didn't think that was going to be in the book.
I thought maybe it was just going to be you know,
rock artists, rock and pop artists. I didn't I didn't
expect the rap and the country. But yeah, when you
think back at it, that's when countries started to really
explode and take off as well. So a lot of
(05:45):
different genres were happening at that time. Wasn't it a
little odd though, to have like bands like Kiss and
ac DC in the nineties, but then one hit wonders
like ever Clear and you know, a will co When
bands like.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
That, Lemon the Lemonheads. I wouldn't call will Co a
one hit wonder because they never really had any hits, Okay,
but they made a lot of good albums all they did. Yeah,
they in the case of Wilco, and you had Uncle,
you know their for Bear, Uncle Tupelo, you know bands
that you know, that's essential because they defined kind of
a you know, Americana and as in the nineties is
(06:23):
when we when we coined Americana to separate like a
band like the early Willco albums, let's say, or sun Volts.
You know, those were not country album per se, so
you need, we needed we needed a way to separate them.
So Americana became its own little genre during the nineties.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Now, I know that Detroit dominated the album scene in
the sixties and even you know somewhat in the seventies
with guys like Seeger and Cooper and and even Ted NuGen.
What were the nineties like for local music here in Detroit?
I know we had Cloud from Sponge.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
We had that album, right, and that's that's it. That's it, okay, Okay,
we did stick a Big Chief album in the book.
If you remember Big Chief, yep, you know that was
that was a tremendous band that that we felt made
made a real morek Qualitatively, there was not was album
in the book. No Seeger or Nugent or you know. Again,
(07:25):
we we stepped back on artists like that and said,
you know, here, here were the albums they made in
the nineties, and well, we may have liked them, they
are not essential albums, either to the nineties or even
to those artists own catalog. Again, seventies and eighties are
going to be different for those guys. We do have
an Alice Cooper album in here, Eminem's in here, Kid
(07:47):
Rock is in here. Okay, So there were there were
some some good some good beacons, you know, but there
wasn't a Detroit movement. Really. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I would have to think though that that Eminem album
probably ranked pretty high on your list.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Well, we didn't rank them, you know, it is by decade.
We we didn't rank them. We just chose five hundred
one album. Oh so we don't. We don't say here's
the number one album of the nineties.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So you don't get a lot of email. And in
a lot of trouble, is that what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
We'll get We'll get enough email that what do you
mean this one's not in. You guys are in it.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Okay, so you know you mentioned a couple, but what
significant album did you leave out and said, boy, you know,
this one's on the fence, but I gotta I gotta
leave it out. Was there a particular band or or
gendre that that fell into that category of I just
can't do it.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
None of them, Doug. These are the five hundred one
essential albums of the nineties, and there is no argument. Okay, yeah,
now that's that's my story, and I'm sticking.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And Gary's number is five.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I'm not going to say that that in hindsight, I
might have you know, I'm might have wished i'd put
a Creed album in. I'm not going to say that,
but you know other people might when they when they
see the book. But you know, by and large, I
mean you can. But then when I say something like that,
you go you get into Okay, so which one would
(09:15):
you have taken out to put that one in? And
we really can make and I think in the writing
we do make the case forever all five hundred one
of these albums to the point where it would be well, yeah,
you can't take that one out if the lungs in there.
And by the way, when I say we, you know,
I'm the editor of this book. We had three dozen contributors,
(09:38):
many from Detroit. Many of the writers are from Detroit,
and and you know, so they you know, we parsed
out two different two different writers to do to do entries,
and so it it really is a compendium of opinions
and perspectives. So people will get a different look at
why an album, you know, is why an album was
(10:02):
essential in the nineties. If I write it, then they'll
then they'll get if some of these other people wrote.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
It's hard to believe that there were over two thousand
of these albums though, that you had to sift through.
How long did that take?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
You know, we spent probably the better part of a
month doing it. When the emails, when the emails get flying,
you know, it's it goes quicker than you might think.
And and at a certain point, you know, there was
a date where I had to sit down and say, Okay,
these are the five hundred ones. I've heard all the arguments,
and but these these are the five hundred one one
(10:37):
We're going to do well.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think the timing of this book The Nineties the
Essential Albums of the Nineties is really very timely because
I've seen here recently, you know, some breakouts of some
of the conventions that are going on radio wise around
the country right some of the transcripts and things of
certain panels, and boy oh boy, I mean, is everybody
(11:00):
right now champion the nineties? I mean, I think it's
finally found. It's true spotlight. I know obviously that you know,
over the past few years, even here at Wheels, we've
been playing a lot of nineties rock on a classic
rock station. But now it just seems like it's just
a perfect fit and the audience has fallen right into
(11:24):
you know, demographically that that category two with the nineties.
So was that you're kind of feeling too. As you
were putting this together, you were saying, you know, this
stuff is more relevant now than maybe when it first
came out.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It was where you know, myself and the publisher of
the book, you know, said yeah, this is this is
the place to start, because we could steal that undercurrent
within the book industry too and in all of media.
Now it does feel like thirty years on the nineties,
the nineties are are happening, were happening or happening again,
(12:01):
and you know, for whatever reason, I mean, we went
We've been through the seventies nostalgia, the eighties nostalgia ninety
seems to be clicking again on TV and the movies
and and certainly certainly in music. And there were there
were bands that created music that has that kind of impact,
that's that had that has that those those legs that
(12:24):
there's still be that music is. We're still hearing smells
like teen Spirit and Daughter and you know, so many
of so many of those songs, we're still hearing them now.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And and deeper tracks too. I mean, one of the
things that we found out in radio is that, you know,
some of these albums by Nirvana and Pearl Jam, who
you just mentioned, we might have played one or two songs.
Now we're playing four or five songs from those records
because they're just they they're standing out heads and shoulders
(12:55):
over some of the stuff from the eighties. Who is
now starting to lose its shelf life a little bit.
It was tough to break the seventies mold boy. I'll
tell you that music stood a few decades strong, you know,
But now we start we're starting to see, you know,
some of the seventies fall off, the eighties fall off,
and oh boy, lucky us, here comes the nineties. You know,
(13:19):
bands like ever Clear and and you know, and in
marketing you were just mentioning commercials. You know, you're hearing
songs by Blur that are in you know, media marketing now,
so that's kind of different.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, yeah, and it goes now, it goes to my
point from earlier too, that the nineties was and in
my mind, was the last album decade, you know, and
the people, you know, people listen to their albums and
they love those, They still love those deep tracks, They
have a soft spot for them, and those are still
(13:53):
important songs. So and it's nice because when we do
talk about the two thousands or the twenty ten, I
don't think we're going to be having the same kind
of discussion.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Was there a Paul McCartney nineties album in there.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
I don't think that I do not again another one
that we you know, you wring your hands about, and
on that long list of more than two thousand, yeah
they're there, And again just didn't think they were even
those albums that he put out in the nineties you
know what, I take that back, there is I think
(14:28):
Run Devil Run is in here. Oh the Beatles' anthologies.
So I did cheat. I did the Beatles Anthology all
three as one entry. So when I think they are
one piece of work. So I'll defend that, I think
you're right.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Okay, So I'm going to give my thumbs up on that,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
But it was tough to even you know, even like
Motley Crue, Oh boy, you know, did they have an
album ACDC to me, you know, to my mind, did
not have an album in the nineties that was essential
to their catalog, much less to the deck just the
way it was, you know, the way it was.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Well, when you think about some of those early bands
like Motley Crue, I mean they blew out their singer,
they changed their sound, they theytoned everything down, and it
didn't fly. I mean it went over like a lead balloon,
you know, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So it took them a number of years to regroup
and then come back that one until the two thousands
that we got Saints of Los Angeles and a semblance
of Motley Cruez sounding like Motley Crue again.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay, So I saw you were at
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremonies, which
is fantastic. Did you see any bands, what bands from
the nineties? Was there any that got recognized this year?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
You know, Dave Matthews band, Okay, you know, they made
they made a bigger you know, they may maybe made
it well, no, they made their splash even in the
in the eighties, but you know, definitely.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
But certainly the nineties.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
A tribe called a tribe called Quest okay, you know,
was inducted. Mary J. Blige began in the nineties. Herself
share had believe in the nineties, which which was a
big deal. So there was you know, there wasn't that
you know, that impact of the nineties at that ceremony.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So we're even starting to see some of that now,
you know, get into the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame as well. Just to you know, take a side
road here. Sure, what was your take on the MC
five induction and how did that go over there at
the Hall?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
So they it was warmly received. I do think the
MC five got short shrift in the ceremony because there
was no performance for them. I mean, and if I
were producing the show and again you know, Disney Plus
did and asked me or ABC, how do you not
start a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony
(16:52):
with an all star kick out the jams?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
I did know, you know Pat's blue ribbon right if
you remember the film Blue Velvet? But how do you not?
How do you not do that? But they did, and
I just don't think there was a champion for it,
you know, and the fact that none of the members
were around. Granted there were right, you know, there were
tribute performances for Jimmy Buffett, you know, who wasn't around,
(17:16):
and some others, but they just couldn't you know that
that part to me was a shame. But Tom Morella's
speech in the video were very warmly received at the ceremony,
and there a lot of family members were there for
the guys, and he had friends from Detroit and Brad Brooks,
who was the singer of the most recent version of
(17:37):
the MC five, the one that made the heavy Lifting album,
but he was there and present. So it was represented,
you know, the group was represented, and it was heartening
to see. If you go to Cleveland, if you go
to the museum and go to the new inductees exhibit.
The biggest slot in that exhibit case is for the
MC five. Bigger, bigger than Share, bigger than Frampton, bigger than.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Four because they were so cool.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
They were so cool, Yes, they were so cool. And
also they gave them more stuff. But the stuff they
gave them was really freaking good. Yeah, so, you know,
so that part was nice to see it. It was nice
to see the families enjoying, you know, enjoying after six nominations,
finally getting the band into the hall in some way,
shape or form.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Well, and I know Tom Morello, he you know, certainly
was influenced by the the MC five and and spent
some time here just before Wayne Cramer died, you know,
with him in recording. But I would have liked to
have seen somebody from Detroit, you know, up there representing
the MC five. There's so many people they've could have chosen,
(18:45):
including even you know, Jimmy Osterberg or you know, Iggy
he could have done it. I know Ted Nugent was
begging to do it, and you know he played the
Grandy Ballroom with those guys, so it it.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
There were plenty of a appropriate people like I say,
you know, Disney did it or an ABC didn't ask
me and apparently didn't ask anybody. I mean even with
the people they had there, you know in house, Tom Morello, uh,
you know who would be appropriate. And then you had
you know, Wolfgang van Halen, you had Slash, you had
Steve Stevens, you know with Billy Billy Idols guy. You
(19:20):
had all these great rock musicians there. Chad Smith was there.
You know, these guys could have could have done it,
and I felt, I really did feel bad they didn't,
and it felt like the MC five got a little shit.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Chad Smith would have been a great spots person for them.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Oh yeah, yeah, no, qu yeah, I mean Morell was
Morella did a great job. He had all the right notes.
And you know he's been he's been in them. He's
part of the reason they got that award on Saturdays. Okay,
he's on the nominating committee and he pushed for it.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Oh very good. Well then our hearts are with him, then, okay,
And I'm glad you were out there, you and Stacy.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So I enjoyed it and that you know again Bridge
Bridge to the nineties, you know, Rage against the Machine
with Tom Morello. There's a band from the nineties. That
would not have existed if the MC five and Stooges
and the amboy Dukes hadn't made noise here in Detroit,
or Mitch Rider in the Detroit Wheels hadn't made noise
during the sixties.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That's who we got to get in next.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
You got it the one.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
You got a whisper to Tom Morello.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
You know, Mitch Rider, come on more than whisper. I spoken.
I spoke in a in a in a very audible
voice with him about that. There was a there's a
party they do every year the night before at the museum,
and we had a chance to chat for a while,
and and you know, Mitch and the wheels were were
put forward and he he agreed, Okay, you know, let's hope.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Well, yeah, because you know, you got Jimmy, the Bee,
you got Mitch. They're all still there.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Let's do it right. Well, they're there. Well, they can
still get up and perform. Well, we've all seen these
guys on a stage recently, and they can still do it.
And put him up with some admirers, you know who,
you know, kind of like they did for or foreigner,
you know, put some of their admirers next to them
and kick out the jams for real.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
All right, Well, I'll save our next podcast for the
conversation you had with Ozzie backstage.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
I'm sure I'm still trying to transcribe.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I was just canna say, we still have to transcribe it. Well, Gary,
congratulations on your fiftieth book.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Not fifty, but twelve is pretty good.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Okay, twelve is good.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, before we get off, let me plug two that
on On November thirteenth, sixth at six point thirty, myself
and a number of the Detroit contributors will be at
Schuler's Books in West Bloomfield up there Orchard like in
fourteen mile doing a talk and signing and hope, folks,
it's free and open to the public, and you know, come,
(21:50):
we're gonna we're gonna have some fun and games at that.
So I think I think people will have a really
good time.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Okay, and they can get the book there. Obviously, you can.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Get the book there. You can get the book, you know,
anywhere books are sold up to and including the trunk
of my car.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Okay, well, and I see your car everywhere, so people
can find you and get the book.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
But exactly just if you see me in a red
light's just knock knock on the window and we'll make
it happen.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
All right, man, Well, Gary, congratulations once again you are
the man, the rock and roll insider and covering every decade,
including now the nineties, and people should pick it up because, boy,
you hit me right out of the shoot with it's
not just rock, it's it's all these different genres of music.
And I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
That's that's great everything. Well, thanks for having me for this.
All right, take the support.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
There will be an eighties book in the spring, so
we'll talk about that, okay, all.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Right, Well we're gonna we're gonna go backwards.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Now today we're going to start by going back.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
All right, Gary Graff, the rock and roll insider, right
here on the rock Doc podcast with his brand new book,
The five hundred and twenty Central Albums of the Nineties.
Pick it up today.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Thank you, Gary, Thank you, Doug
Popular Podcasts
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!