Ep. 14: Would an Outsider Like Twilight? (feat. Shawn Johnson of WPR)

In the midst of the Twilight Renaissance, we know just how saturated the internet is with quotes and memes around the widely-loved (and hated) saga. But what does this world look like to an outsider? Would someone who has never interacted with Twilight even enjoy reading it today? Can the book hold up in 2023 to fresh eyes?

We challenged Shawn Johnson, the State Capitol Bureau Chief for Wisconsin Public Radio, to take on reading the first book cover to cover to test the longevity of Twilight and determine if we can recruit even an unlikely TwiHard.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
It was interesting you didn't choose toread this um as a bittime story.
Oh well, I'm don't I knowwhat you are. It's my heart's recover
and recovery. See see it.I simply cannot look at an apple the

(00:20):
same way anymore. See you,Wiley just had such a grip on so
many people see it, see it. That's why Hard Recovery Club podcast.
He seemed to be wavering, tornby some internal dilemma. His eyes locked
with mine, and I guess hewas making the decision right then, whether

(00:43):
or not to simply tell me thetruth. You can trust me now,
I murmured. I reached forward,without thinking to touch his folded hands,
but he slid them away minutely,and I pulled my hand back. I
don't know if I have a choiceanymore. His voice was almost a whisper.
I was wrong. You're much moreobservant than I gave you edit for.
I thought you were always right.I used to be. He shook

(01:03):
his head again. I was wrongabout you and one other thing as well.
You're not a magnet for accidents.That's not a broad enough classification.
You're a magnet for trouble. Ifthere's anything dangerous within a ten mile radius,
it will invariably find you, andyou put yourself in that category.
I guess his face turned cold,expressionless, unequivocally. Okay, welcome back

(01:30):
to say it out Loud the TwihartRecovery Club podcast. My name is Jenna
from Z one O four Madison.My name is Alissa. I edit the
news and question today is would anoutsider like Twilight in twenty twenty three?
And boy is he an outsider?So our special guest today, Alyssa knows

(01:52):
very well. Elyssa, would youlike to introduce Sean? Yes, we
have Sean Johnson, Wisconsin Public Radio'sCapital Bureau chief, covering all of the
drama that comes with Wisconsin politics.He's also the host of two WPR podcasts,
Mapped Out and Derailed. M Hi, Sean, how are you?

(02:13):
I'm you know, so highly qualifiedto be on your podcast? Obviously,
with that setup, who wouldn't wanta state capitol reporter to talk about Twilight.
I think it's the perfect face.I think it's a good perspective.
Sean is also in whatever episode Imentioned my quote coworker friend who encouraged the

(02:36):
podcast. Sean's the one. Sothis is a full circle moment. I
remember that it was a big night. We're indebtit. That was the first
time we met. Actually, Ithink, oh my god, oh yeah,
you just edited my stories then becauseeverything was remote, yes, and
then there we were, and thenyou told us to do a podcast.
I know who we are. Idid. And you know most people you

(02:58):
say that and they don't do podcasts, but look at you. You did
one. Wow. Yeah, allright, John, Uh So we have
some questions for you. You haveokay, So what is your interactions with
Twilight this far? Have you readany of the books. Have you seen
any of the movies? No,not at all. No. You told
me not to start reading it onceyou know, I knew you were going

(03:21):
to do this pre record, soI haven't touched the book. I've never
watched a Twilight movie. I'm aboutas uninformed as you can get about Twilight.
Yeah, I mean I listened toI listened to the start of your
podcast after you launched it, butI didn't know what you're talking about a

(03:46):
lot of the times because I'm nofamiliarity with the story. It's a niche
market well it's I mean, avery large niche, but yeah, yeah,
so joke. So I'm like justa science project tier for you.
This is perfect, this is great. Um Okay. So when the Twilight
like surge was first happening, Sarka, we always forget this day, but

(04:09):
I want to say, like itstarted in two thousand and seven and lasted
several years, why didn't you partake? You know? It's funny. I
was thinking about that because I rememberlike the very moment that I became aware
that Twilight was a thing. Uhyou know, you know in Madison over

(04:30):
by Hilldale, there's that you tobe a credit union that used to be
a Borders, a bookstore that nolonger exists. I do remember I was
in there with my wife and wedid not have kids yet we do now,
and like there was this huge lineof people to get something and we

(04:54):
were just like totally unaware, likewhat is going on here? And it
was Twilight Like people were going nutsfor Twilight and that was literally the first
time that we had heard about it. It's like one of those moments in
your life when you realize, ohGod, I have developed a blind spot
for this area of pop culture andthat was it for me. And so

(05:15):
why didn't we partake. I don'tknow. We were just already behind.
And I'm not sure what happened afterthat. Did you know anyone who was
into Twilight at the time, Andwhat was your perception of that pop culture
moment going around you? I feltlike pretty detached from it, I guess.
So it was two thousand and seven, you said, I mean professionally

(05:38):
in like two ten, two eleven, and even before then there was just
a lot happening in state government,which was my beat. And then in
two thousand and nine I became adad, and so you know, you
just like the combination of work exhaustedand baby exhausted, and there just was
no room in my life for popculture of any kind. Things are more

(06:03):
important than the Twilight saga. Ican't don't. I think you don't need
to like talk down the art thatyou love. It's ok, it's important.
I just don't know about it.I think it was interesting you didn't
choose to read this um as abittime story. Oh well, I'm I'll

(06:26):
tell you like a little much theum. I mean, my daughter,
who is a baby in two thousandand nine is now a teenager and is
quite interested in the book. ThatAlyssa, you have let me borrow okay,
and this is I want to hearthis angle. This really wants to
read that book. Okay. Um, she's on another series right now,

(06:49):
but she's ready to jump into Twilight. I'm just telling her, like,
let me read it free for okay. God, that is so exciting.
Okay. So to your unders standingof all that you know of the Twilight,
you know, saga, what isthe plot of Twilight. I'm really

(07:11):
embarrassed to say, I just don'teven know. If you had to take
a wild kids, vampires, okay, Um, people, people are involved,
just a bullet point. Yeah,themes um, angst yep um,
rooting, just getting into adjectives.Great, Yeah, that's not even that's

(07:39):
not even a noun. Really,No, but you're right, you are
right, Yeah, I just Imean, I've watched I'm pretty sure I
remember like movie trailers, okay forTwilight, and it's like these beautiful characters
who have these intense feelings and someof them are vampires. Okay. It's

(08:00):
kind of my general impression of thestory that I haven't built out around that
though. No, that's stellar.Um, So what kind of books in
literature do you normally enjoy and spendtime with. You know, last year
I got into this kick about itwas non fiction. I got into this

(08:20):
kick about like war books. You'regonna have an interesting time with this one.
I made this become letting me justbe like a thing. I don't
know people of a certain age tostart getting into books about like World War
two and stuff, but I did. Um, I don't know, were

(08:41):
we joking, I was, Ihave this joke about how white men love
to go through a World War twofair. I've seen this meme too,
and it's like, yeah, itkind of fits. I think, well,
actually it was kind of like inspiredby the current day. It's really,
this is such a lame answer toyour question about like I have a

(09:01):
choice to read books about anything.But here I am like the news about
Ukraine hits, and I realized Idon't know anything about that Ukraine and their
history with Russia. And so Ithought, Okay, I need to figure
out what's going on there contextual.But I can't really just start with World
War two. So I really shoulddo World War One first. And then

(09:22):
like I had this book about theCivil War that I'd been meaning to get
to. It shouldn't really have anythingto do with that, but I want
I wish I could give you abetter answer in the books, No I
want to do. I think that'sso funny though, because I like how
you're like, oh, I don'thave any contexts for this newspiece I'm working
on and the world that we're in, whereas our generation is very much like

(09:43):
I need escapism so desperately. IfI don't get out of this current world,
I'm gonna go insane. Okay,So I mean I have escapism though
in the form of fantasy football,which is just it's like kind of a
drug, and you know, it'sdefinitely I spent a lot of time like
worrying about like whether a player thatI'd never even heard of until a few

(10:07):
months ago has like a high anklesprain or something, which is a thing
I never used to be concerned about. But that is my escapism for a
few months of andever now and thenI actually need to build up my brain
cells that I lose during football season. And you're like the boss of it,
so you're like making the world.I don't know how it works,

(10:28):
but you're like the chair or whatever. It's not quite how it works.
No, I'm just I'm just theperson who got people. You invented football,
little League, That's right, Iinvented football. This is gonna be
so fun for you because everything thatyou're telling me right now is that you
are going to be so uncompatible withthis book and it's gonna be really good.
So do you partake in any kindof romance books? Movies? Do

(10:52):
you enjoy them? I wouldn't seekout a romance book, but I would
watch a roman movie. Sure.Well, actually, I mean and like
the teen angst genre is I love? I mean, give me, give
me like some angsty high school movieand oh that's his comfort food right there,

(11:15):
I think. I mean, there'sa reason that high school movies are
so marketable. Right, Like,we've all, I don't want to say
we've all, but a critical massof us have built up high school as
like these formative years in our brains, and it's easy kind of to remember

(11:37):
things like who who you perceived yourselfas in high school, like who you
liked, um, which clicks youfit into it. It also sort of
fits into a neat puzzle the fartheryou get away from it. And I
like that. I like to gointo that formula. Yeah, it's very

(12:01):
comforting. I don't know. Yeah, you just go back to that simpler
time and then you're like, oh, wait, it's been seven years,
which for you is it's been alittle more than that, just a few,
just a little bit. We won'tdisclose your age unless you would like
to disclose your age. I thinkif if we decide that it is relevant

(12:24):
to the topic matter, we cango there. But otherwise, you know
what is age's true? Well waituntil you listen to our last episode.
Yeah, okay, okay, SoI want to give you a synopsis of
Twilight, just so you have thisin your brain, going going in,
you know, get you pumped upfor this. So this is a little

(12:45):
quote from The New York Times fallin Love with the addictive, suspenseful love
story between a teenage girl and avampire with a book that sparked a literary
phenomenon and redefined romance for a generation. Isabella Swans moved to Forks, a
small perpe actually rainytown in Washington,could have been the most boring move she
ever made, But when she meetsthe mysterious and a learning Edward Cohen,

(13:07):
Isabella's life takes a thrilling and terrifyingturn up. Until now, Edward has
managed to keep his vampire identity asecret in the small community he lives in.
But now nobody is safe, especiallyIsabella, the person Edward holds most
dear. The lovers find themselves balancedprecariously on the point of a knife,
between desire and danger. I've neverread this before. Deeply romantic and extraordinarily

(13:31):
suspenseful, Twilight captures the struggle betweendefying our instincts and satisfying our desires.
This is a love story with bite. What do you think? I can't
wait. I'm dedicated to reading thisbook and it's gonna be fun. But
I would not necessarily pick it upbased on that blurb. It does sound

(13:54):
also, you know, he lovesher, but suddenly she's injury because of
this. I mean, yes,that sounds like it could be a problem
there. That's the plot of theNow I'm kind of interested in find finding
out why. Yeah, and you'regoing to um do you have any reservations?

(14:15):
Do you think? Are you scaredat all? No? Not really?
Good? Good? I mean youshould be a little bit, But
that's good that you're not, Imean scared of being scared. You're scared
of falling in love with this sagaand then having torch and yeah, have
you ever been to a hot topic? Of course? Yeah. Well it's

(14:35):
gonna be different. It's gonna readtwice, it's going to feel like it's
going to feel like that again.Yeah. Well, I guess I'll have
to get my clothes somewhere else fromnow, Sean, we have just a
few instructions for you as you read. Take notes along the way if there's
anything you want to discuss. It'snot like you have to take chapter notes.

(14:56):
We don't really care, um,but if there's any interesting moments,
weird moments, um, stuff thatmakes you cringe, quotes that you hate,
you know, Sean, I wantyou to pick your favorite quote from
the book, and then that willbe the quote we read at the start
of the next because we read aquote at the beginning of everyone, so

(15:18):
you can pick it. Okay,I'm picking up a lot of like annoyance
with this book that you both love. So I have no idea what you're
talking about. Okay, Yeah,I'm ready to dive in. I'll know
soon, like I'll know where thisis all coming from. No, exactly,

(15:39):
and then obviously write down any questionsyou have for us. But I
heard there's actually more than one book. Is that true? There's way too
many. So there's four books.The last one was split into two movies,
so there's five movies. Um,do you have any questions for us
going into it or are you justready to dive in? I think I'm

(16:00):
ready to dive in now. Umexcited. Well, we're wishing you luck
on your journey. I'm really excitedto hear your thoughts as an editor,
someone who consumes media. Parent,Yes, that's what I was going to
say, also a parent of twoyoung girls. I think that'll be the
most interesting thing to talk about.I told somebody that like, ky,
I'm gonna I'm gonna do this podcast, and they're like really, I'm like,

(16:23):
oh yeah, yeah, it'll begreat. You know. I was
really kind of an English major atheart, so it's fine. And they
cautioned me, like, hold on, you have some issues though. Yeah,
great, So it all sounds complicated, and so sign me up exactly.
You're gonna love it. Yeah,I'm really excited for this. Welcome

(16:53):
back, Sean. It's been Ithink like six weeks since we've talked to
you last I've been through a lot, You've been through war. Um,
God, where do we even startwith this? I don't know. I'm
ready to go this book is Canwe also talk about how fast you read
this? Though? Yeah, gothrough, go through. Oh it was

(17:15):
like, you know, the chunks. It was like chunks, you know.
I think I read the first twohundred and seventy pages in one day.
It was really um fun, Idon't know. And also I had
work to do, right, SoI was like, oh yeah, and
I like, I really I hadactual work to do, and so yeah,

(17:37):
of course I decided now is agood time to read Twilight. I
do feel bad looking back on that, because I knew there was so not
only to Choun read Twilight in April, but Sean covered a historical Supreme Court
election in Coosconsin it really like thefirst the first section was really fun,
and then I just kind of Ijust had to set it down. And
so I don't know if it's likeone of those things where you know,

(18:00):
when you sat down a book fora while, it can be hard to
get back into. I did findthat there's like a section in the middle
that I found though it was kindof hard to get back into and then
it picked up again and it's likethere's I divided into three chunks. Okay,
so let's talk about you didn't realizethis was a romance book, right,
I really didn't know what this bookwas about. I mean, I'm
sure like I saw the movie promosback in the day and was vaguely familiar

(18:26):
with it, but no, Ididn't know. There was a certain point
in the book when I realized,Okay, sister a Keen romance novel,
and I'm going to go talk aboutoh, you know it was I mean,
I guess that's kind of obvious.Yeah, I mean, it's it's
obvious. Like, so, Iactually liked the first part where they're kind
of they're like toyed with each otherand like she kind of suspects pretty strongly

(18:48):
that he's different, and then like, yeah, probably a vampire and they
want but they want to use thatword. And I liked all that,
and uh, but the ten roundit was like around that two hundred and
seventy page mark where he takes herto the meadow and he and he sparkles
yes and he runs around real fastand throws a log into the tree and

(19:11):
is bragging as if you could frightenme off. And then for you know,
like a hundred pages, they justevery now and then they'll break in
with just your your world now.And I was a little worried that was
the rest of the book, um, but it wasn't, you know.
They just had to go through thatphase and let you know, look,

(19:33):
they are really in love. Thisis very special. It's true love.
Yeah, and they're like their relationshipis so uninteresting to me too. I
just don't ever see them being likethat personal or like carrying about each other,
like do any of them have hobbies? The vampires or like Bella and
Edward. I think I think Bellais interesting. For interesting, let's let's

(19:59):
get in. I think so.The reason I think the reason the first
like half of the book moves isyou're in Bella's head, right, and
so you gotta she has to beinteresting or else it's going to be a
drag. And so she starts outas this independent you know, kind of
she feels awkward, but she's stillconfident, like the I knew I was

(20:25):
in the book when she was likeI think it was our On page forty
six, where they're in biology andeverybody's so afraid of Edward, like they
just sort of look at him.But you know, we don't talk to
them, we don't talk to theCollins. They're just different. And she
just looks at him and looks athis eyes and says, did she get

(20:45):
contact? And I'm like, oh, yeah, there we go. That's
just so confident. I like Bellafrom that moment on, and so she
starts out interesting before she becomes totallystupid. Yeah, okay, I'm glad
you out there because I was gonnasay, I think we disagree a lot
because when we talked about Bella asa character, I think that was one
of our earliest episodes where we're like, she's just kind of like this like

(21:11):
fake feminist character that doesn't really holdup all that well throughout the saga,
and like she's kind of really selfish, which I think in perspective is okay
because she's a teenager. Well,so what got us when we started rereading
Twilight some like ten years later afterwe had experienced its adolescents, um Like

(21:34):
when she's first talking about moving inbut Charlie, she's like, oh,
we had to share a bathroom andshe just came off like a lot more
bratty than I remembered. And thenshe's like I'm so close. Like it
just kind of seemed like she's likea quote normal girl, but like tries
really hard to be like, ohbut I'm so clumsy and like I have
to take care of everyone and ohmy god, like can you give me

(21:56):
a break? And she's like toocool for the other high schooler, like
she's like, my friends are kindof stupid. Yeah. But then,
like knowing the movie, I wasable to see how they present her in
the movie, and I was like, yeah, okay, she's Kristen Stuart.
She's cool. They do try tolike they try to check a lot
of boxes with her. Yeah,um one, you know, like oh

(22:18):
I'm I'm awkward. Oops, youknow, I'm clumsy, and oh I
have these I have these insecurities.You know. They laid that on pretty
heavily. But then they also sheshe's got three guys asking her to the
dance within the first whatever, howevermany weeks, like all these guys who

(22:41):
are throwing themselves at her, Soit's like she the um they're presenting her
is look, she's she's you uhyou know reader, and you know you
might feel awkward and like you don'thave a place in this world, but
guess what, you are the hottestperson at the school and look, just

(23:04):
ride along with Bella here. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Even a
vampire could fall in love with youtoo. Well. And I think that's
the full of like when we wereyounger, of like why we liked it
because I was like, oh,we read big, long, heavy book
exactly. Um. Well, andthere's a theory too that the writer,
Stephanie Meyer, is a self likemade Bella as a self insert character,

(23:26):
as in like she wrote herself intothat book, which I don't know if
that's right. I believe it,but I think like she does make that
book is shy type into the maincharacter, which is nice. But you
know, now that we're adults,I'm like, god, she's very annoying.
What did you so when I talkedabout her seeming brady, what did

(23:48):
you think of her interactions with Charlie, like as you are a dad as
well? Or just think their wholerelationship was sort of empty, like undeveloped.
It was just a place to stay. I don't really think that.
Um, I don't think that's likeStephanie Miller Meyer. I read everything.

(24:11):
I read the whole book except thecover. I'm like, I'm trying to
dance around saying her name. Ohyeah, Stephanie Meyer. The one thing
I didn't think about before he camein, Um, Stephanie Meyer, of
course is everyone knows Um. Shejust Charlie's house was just a place for
her to like park and get intothe Bella adventures. And she makes him

(24:34):
food all the time too, whichI thought it was a little weird.
Yeah, yeah, because she actuallythere's like a section in there's a part
in the book where she makes apoint of saying something like really, oh
you know she talks about the misogynisticcharacters in Shakespeare then six Yeah. Yeah,

(24:56):
and she's you know, bragging aboutlook how you know, look how
smart I am on this pedophic Now, let me go home and make Charlie
breakfast, lunch, and dinner.No, he never pays any attention to
me. Yeah, because she takeson like such a mother attitude, which
I think is an interesting family dynamicof like she knows her mother is just
like kind of all over the place. So Bella has become like the mother

(25:19):
figure of the family. What thatalso means taking care of her dad,
who's also been living alone for howevermany years. That poor man, Well,
I think I think they used thefamily as an excuse for her to
like mature fastor yeah, but thensee Shannie made a face. I'm thinking,

(25:41):
well, she said you feel bador we feel bad for Charlie.
You really m Yeah, he doesn't. I don't feel like he's shown us
any reason for us to feel Iwonder if that's anything. Dude spends his
spare time going out fishing. Youknow. It's not like he's saying,
hey, Bella, let's spend somequality time together and hang out. He's

(26:02):
either working or fishing, and that'sit. I think it's partly he hasn't
had her around for so long.I don't think he knows how to fully
dad. Yeah, and then soin that there's some sympathy. But yeah,
I don't know. I guess likethey're both a fault for different things,
except I don't think that, Like, the book doesn't pay as much

(26:22):
attention to that relationship, so it'seasy to just kind of read over it.
I give her a pass. Iguess her mom's oft in Florida,
hanging out with a minor league baseballplayer and doesn't have time to parent her
anymore, you know, so itcalls her on the pay phone. I
feel like Bella, you know,I guess I give her a pass when
it comes to how she handles herparents. Yeah. Well, and it

(26:45):
also kind of feels like what Stephney'strying to do is create a situation where
she now gets to make a newfamily because her family is kind of distant.
Yeah. The Collins are, They'renice family. Yeah, let's talk
about the Colors. Yeah, Imean more like Edwards, the least interesting
of the Collins. He really is. He's just he's just beautiful and and

(27:08):
loves Bella very much and it's allI know. And he's fast and he
reads mind, and he like hangsout outside her bedroom. Um inside,
that's right. Yeah, but theCollins are nice. Yeah. Yeah,
we love the dad. We lovedoctor Culin. She seems great. Yeah,

(27:29):
he willed himself to to not bea bloodthirsty vampire. Great. Uh
huh exactly. His wife I don'tthink comes up too much in that book.
She's kind of a passive character throughoutthe soccer Honestly, Um, and
then you have these very defined characters. Rosalie, she's an underdeveloped character with
a really good backstory which you don'tknow yet, but when you read all

(27:52):
of the books yet, yeah,they present her it's like the most beautiful
person in the world, and thathe becomes a weapon against her eventually.
But it's a whole thing. ButI think she's a great character, even
though Stephanie doesn't write her as agreat character. You have Emmett who's just
like this beefhead of a man.You have Alice, he's just quirky and
weird, and then you have Jasper, who is a little troublemaker, very

(28:18):
new to the lifestyle. I likeJasper. You like Jasper? Yeah?
Who are your favorites? Well,Jasper had a line he's the He actually
tells Bella like, Hey, youare worth it. You know. She's
always, Oh, why are youdoing this for me? I'm just a
lowly human and if anything were tohappen you vampires, I feel so bad,

(28:42):
And why are you doing this forme? And Jasper has a moment
when he uncharacteristically for the whole bunchof them, is like, hell,
are you're wrong? You are worthit? You smell great, Wow,
Jasper, It's true. Yeah,the smelling was released throughout the whole romance,

(29:02):
the constant sniffing. I'm debating ifI want to spoil things for you
about the other about the rest ofthe saga. But I'm also like,
are you really gonna I don't know. I mean, I think you could
at least read the or watch themovies. Yeah, I think the movies
would be fun for you now,but just says it. This isn't really
a spoiler, but Jasper becomes aless likable character down the road. He

(29:27):
like in book two, he justmakes a mess for everyone and he does
something bad. And then we foundout later that he used to be a
Confederate soldier. And then he's liketeaching people how to fight because he was
really good at that. He waslike a Confederate soldier. And then he

(29:47):
got made into a vampire and thenbasically ran like vampire army camp like and
like taught newborn vampires how to fight. Yeah, the lord goes crazy.
So it's just kind of like,you could have picked any war, but
she picked the Confederacy well, andyou know what, not even a union.
She could have been like and I'msorry for that, but he didn't.

(30:10):
So just so you know, yourfavorite character is he seems so nice,
he's into he's like he's he's gettingmanipulating minds though, right right,
that is true. Yeah, thatis true either reader was manipulating, Yes,
exactly. How did you feel aboutthe humans? They don't come up
a lot, but like some ofBella's friends, yeah, they're it was

(30:33):
there was funny, like in thebeginning, I started to realize, I
know her class schedule, you know, there's like I kind of liked the
mundane nature of her going to classand doing this, and then all the
time her friends, Um, poorpoor Mike. Isn't Mike, poor guy.
He's just like so nice and buthe's not dark and mysterious enough for

(30:59):
Bella so totally gets all nice guystruggle. And then there's Eric, Jessica
some of the other ones. Doyou have any early thoughts on Jacob Jacob?
Yeah, I mean obviously Tea andthat up for a sequel somewhere,
right. I thought that was nicelyhandled. Yeah, like like subtle enough,

(31:22):
but yeah, and he seems heseems like pure even though I have
no idea, like what what's goingto go on there. I mean,
I kind of I feel like Ikind of I kind of vaguely remember pop
culture references and and they do theyallude to it. I think in a

(31:42):
dream. She has a dream,Yeah, and she's worried in the dream
for Edward very much. So yeah, I know something's coming with Jacob and
he uh he loves her. Soyeah. Yeah, we got some ConfL
like to bruin there so so muchon the way. Yeah, man,

(32:05):
and Edward is there when they danceat the end about that and he's like,
he said, you were pretty andthat's just you're so beautiful. Oh
god. We also have our threevillains, James, Victoria, and Laurents.
Yeah. What did you think ofthe climax? Oh? Jeames was

(32:27):
awesome, so good. That's whenI got good again. I like I
remember I wrote it down like goodagain, because there was there's the getting
to know each other part of thebook, and then there's the I love
you for a hundred and fifteen pagesor so part of the book, and
then James comes along and it's freakingfun for a while, and yeah,

(32:54):
give me more of him. AlthoughI got the sense he was torn to
shreds and burned. Yeah he's deadnow. Yeah. Um yeah. I
will say I don't think we've evermentioned this on the podcast, but I
do think Sephney writes a good agood villain. Yeah, like even as
the books progress, like pretty goodvillains, Like they're a little trophy,

(33:14):
but in a fun way. Yeah, because Victoria will come back. She's
just like a character throughout the nexttwo books. I think, So that's
kind of fun. Ront comes backvery lightly. He seems he's not.
He was an unwilling villain. They'relike, oh, I'm really sorry.
He's just kind of there. Yeah. Yeah, but James the leader.

(33:36):
Wrong happens to the best of us. James has a nice little speech there
where he talks about how it wasnever really about Bella. It was about
the Edward kind of another person,pro pessing his love for Edward. You're
just you're just dinner, honey.But the minute he defended you, I

(33:58):
knew I had to have you Land. Yes, it was. It was
very well written. Midnight Sun isinteresting from that, like it's super boring
because it's everything you already know aboutthe I Love You novella and everything,
and then suddenly you hear the Huntfrom edwards perspective, where it's like,
oh, we went on a planefor this part and we chased him for

(34:20):
X amount of miles and you're like, oh, there's a lot of basically
out maneuver activity, right yeah,and like, oh no, they screwed
us over, So that part wasinteresting. We kind of talked about Bella
and edwards personalities individually, but howdo we feel about them interacting as a
couple. As a couple, it'sI mean, they love each other because

(34:45):
they told us, But yeah,I mean Edwards seems to like her for
if you really break it down,it's not necessarily the greatest reasons, right
you know, Like there's that onesection where he's he's explaining why he's so

(35:07):
obsessed with her, and and itstarts out with like, well, it's
like if you're an alcoholic yea,yeah, and you were in a room
with a hundred year old brandy orsomething. And then he comes around to
she explains like, well, whatyou know you're saying? I like,
you're you're you're kind of heroine andhe's like, you were exactly my type

(35:30):
of heroine. And I would say, like maybe steak dinner is the more
app for comparison because he's always likesmelling her. He didn't mention that,
and um, he's just he isobsessed with her from obviously from like a
total animal magnetism kind of way asa vampire. Um, he also is

(35:54):
obsessed with her because she's the oneperson who's thoughts he can't read. So
she's just like a curiosity to him. Um, which I understand, you
know. But then he's also hetreats her like a toy kind of.
Yeah. Very early on, likevery early on, I felt thought like,

(36:17):
I don't like this guy. Youknow, she's she got lightheaded after
they did the blood draws in classand biology I think again biology, all
the stuff happens there and and hejust literally picks her up. Then they
don't really even know each other thatwell, and he's picking her up and
carrying her to the nurse's office.Buddy. Yeah, he's easy. He's

(36:40):
right away like having full say overher and being like I have a project
her at all costs, and thenat the same time being like, I'm
not going to talk to you fortwo weeks. And it's just I guess
it's classic, like will they won'tthey like he's torn about it. And
again, you get more insight intothat in Midnight Sun, I guess,
but it's unnecessary insight. But yeah, it's just but it's all like red

(37:05):
flags of toxic relationship dynamics, Likeit's not like, oh cute, but
we were presented it when we werelike ten year old girls who were like,
that's kind of like it's a littleit's a little yeah, that's hot,
Like it's a little bad. Likeyou're ten, you want to feel
older, so you're like, okay, some mature content. But then you're

(37:25):
also like, wow, the factthat someone could be obsessed with you forever,
that's like we want that. Iguess we were like told that we
should want that. And then sowhen we started looking at it again as
young adults, we were like,oh my god, like this is that
was not right. Well, he'sso controlling, like he gets to make

(37:47):
all of the decisions about what happenswith them, and he gets to pace
everything, and she's just kind ofalong for the rid, like whatever you
want, whatever you want whenever,and if she doesn't say that, he
just carries her. Yeah, it'sreally bad. But he's got a lot

(38:08):
of red flags over being controlling.He's older a lot of ways, hundred
years older. Yeah, do youwant to talk about that? Yeah,
I thought about that. It didn'tbother me. I guess. I guess
literally, Okay, he's a vampirein real life. I just want to

(38:28):
be clear if vampires are are likepraying on humans, I don't think that's
cool vampires, and I'm not I'mnot down with one hundred and seventeen year
old dudes dating high schoolers. It'snot cool. But in the context of
the book, it didn't bother me. I guess yeah. Yeah. I
mean he was at least frozen intime as a seventeen year old, and
she's seventeen and so, and hespends all his time like going to school

(38:52):
when he's not killing bears and stuff, so it seemed okay. Yeah,
I think we like, there's acouple of age issues in Twilight again as
we go on, but that wasour last episode. We were just like,
how do we how do we feelabout this? Yeah, because it's
similarly whenever we want to read itlike you're like age weird, But like,

(39:13):
I guess, we won't talk aboutit because it is presented like contextually
where you're like, I don't knowexactly how to explain what's wrong with it
in this context because it's fantasy,and you're also like, there are a
lot of other issues to get throughfirst. But last episode we were like,
Okay, let's try to make senseof it, and then we just
got really like down a rabbit holeabout age in general and what it means

(39:36):
when your brain stops developing and whatever. Yeah, she wants to find out.
I guess. I just also findit really weird that he is like
one hundred and seventeen and he's stillso boring. He could be doing anything
anything. Well, he's apparently avery good musician and he knows he knows

(39:57):
music, but like, yeah,yeah, yeah, there's not much there.
I don't know. But he's he'sa he is a god in our
presence, though Bella has told methat is true. He is super sexually,
he's a looker. Yeah, that'sexactly everything about him with Velvet Um

(40:17):
God. Where do we go next? We could also talk about how the
book is written. I would loveto hear your thought on you know,
pacing, wording, um, sentinstructure, everything. Yeah, I was
I was a little worried about itat the start. Um, I mean

(40:37):
I did, like eventually I kindof knocked at that first chunk. Yeah,
she has Like very early in thebook, she's described Bella's describing being
embarrassed, and she says, Iflushed tomato red, and I thought,
shut up, you know that's nobodyflushes tomato red. And it was just
distracting me. And then for aminute I was a little angry with Stephanie

(41:01):
Meyer. Of course I know that'sher last name, and um, but
I guess I guess I got overit, you know, I guess the
shortcomings were not enough to throw meoff. I feel like when when the
book beat me over the head withhow much they loved each other for one
hundred or so pages in the middle, that was Yeah, Like I wrote

(41:22):
down some of those quotes because theywere just they were just so much.
Um. Every time Edward laughs,it's so what are you saying? Like
where did this come from? Andhow am I supposed to hear this?
Maybe it's me the way I readthe laughs exactly. Yeah, like,

(41:44):
um, it just constantly he's talkingabout like barking and laughter and he laughed
in the mood abruptly lightened and it'sjust it got to be. Every time
I saw the word laugh associated withhim, I just cruzed a little bit,
like stopped doing that. If he'ssupposed to be this mysterious you know,
yeah, and he doesn't even laughthat much, and whenever again,

(42:06):
I'm I'm really like John and Iwere talking earlier about how the books in
the movie are kind of like blurredinto one thing. Now, but like
picturing the movie, whenever he laughs, it's in such like a snarky way,
or like it's more in like amoment where like you're mad slash like
like like scoffing. Okay, moreoften then it's that way. I hear

(42:27):
him. Well, yeah, whenthey're saying it lights up a room.
Yeah, Like, that's so nothis character. How do you go from
being this quiet, brooding guy tolike, all of a sudden, you're
you're laughing? Um, I did. I liked that line about I'm just
looking through my notes here. Youwere exactly my brand of heroin, I
did write damn after that. Thatwas good. I don't so I don't

(42:50):
want to just like sit here andlike trash Stephanie Meyer because obviously she yeah,
well you know, I think shecan handle it too. Um,
he barked a laugh. That wasanother one I wrote down here. Okay,
okay, here, here's some funnystuff. Edward says, you are
in my life now and I'll alwayswant you forever, and just that and

(43:15):
that over and over again, andthen she literally passed out. She was
so taken by him. Literally yeahso um and then like he says,
damn it, but like you'll bethe death of me. I swear you
will. It was just no,yeah, it's like they go corny they
yeah, no, well it's cornyand also just like so serious like they

(43:39):
it's like you never just get like, oh we went on and I guess
they kind of gotten inner together thatone night. But that was also the
night she found out he was animmortal being. Um, but it's not
just like oh, like we goto the movies and I like him and
like is he gonna hold my hand? Like it's like they're in the meadow
one day, finds out he's avampire and then it's immediately life or death.

(44:01):
Yes exactly. I did. Likeat the end when they went to
prom you know, that was kindof fun. That was that was nice,
wouldn't She said? Because also Bellawas less stupid than she's making these
these funny jokes and she's saying like, do you want me to bolt the
doors when they you know, they'rein the gym full of humans? Um?

(44:23):
I like that. I like herwhen she's just taking things less serious,
a little, a little confident insnarky. Yeah. Yeah. Did
you expect her to get changed atthe end. I thought it might happen.
Yeah, I mean, but itnow it keeps me reading to book
two, right because we've gone backto the stuff I liked about the beginning

(44:46):
of the book, where it's like, you know, when they get together
or won't they or they're still funand you know, feeling each other out
here? Well, now is hegonna turn her or not? I'm kind
of hooked. Let me tell youa Book two is our favorite? Really?
Yes, because Edward is not therefor Baked Chunk of It, Okay,

(45:08):
But Book two, I think it'sjust fun. I like, we
like the movie a lot, welike the soundtrack a lot, good memories
with that one. But I thinkI was talking to my mom about it
too. My mom's read all thebooks, and she was like, I
think Book two has kind of sleptOn. It's really good, and I
will admit, like for a while, I was like, because that one's
called New Moon, It's like NewMoon is so boring because Edward's not there,

(45:30):
because you know, the whole plotis like their love story and then
you're kind of deviating from that fora little bit and it's like just get
to the point, like let's giftthis. But it like nostalgically like that
is the movie I remember the most, and so like the book has grown
on me as well, and Ithink there's like room for other characters in

(45:52):
that book, like you see,you get more of the world, I
guess, But yeah, Bola doesget better get into a route, which
is nice. But yeah, that'sany encouragement if you're willing to take on
three more thick books. Yeah,I don't want to. I don't want

(46:12):
to promise, but I didn't sayi'd put it a definite. Maybe for
me you could if you keep goingnow, maybe you would get to Breaking
Dawn by twenty twenty four election season. Yeah, okay, how many seven
pages long? There's four? Okay, there's four. And then there's one

(46:37):
spin off, one Illustrated Guy thattakes you into the universe and tells you
how things operate. And then there'sMidnight Sun, which we just talked about.
So you got a lot of catchingup to do. Okay, it'll
be great. Um, And supposedlyshe's working on more, much to my

(46:57):
dismay. Um what she's going though? Yeah, I just we're here as
long as she's right. Honestly,she's just given us content at this point.
Um. What did you think ofthe pacing of everything though? Like,
do you think do you think thebook needed to be that long?
M It's kind of a guided question, but you know, yeah, I

(47:20):
was okay with it, you know, except for the aforementioned middle section.
Um, I was okay with it. I thought, like everything. I
liked the beginning. I like thegetting to know each other love story.
I liked when Jane gets involved andthe action there that was exciting. It
didn't bother me. Yeah, Ithought I was okay. Disagree, I

(47:46):
like, I think, for itbeing a romance book and for it being
so much about those two, it'sjust weird how like Mundane that part is.
And I do feel like a bunchof that plot from when James comes
in gets like really rushed around theend. I'm okay with the pacing with

(48:07):
it at the end, but I'mjust like, should that have started to
happen sooner so that it was lessboring in that middle section. And I
also think the timeline is really weird. Like I think we were kind of
talking about it, but like theysaid, I love you so fast.
Well, yeah, so looking atit, Bella gets there during March,
yeah, and then prom is likea month later, Like prom isn't it's

(48:28):
so fu Yeah, Like there's likea week of she's at school edwards there
and then they like start talking morethan he leaves for like a week or
two, and then as soon ashe comes back is when they go to
the meadow. So it's pretty fast. Yeah. Uh that scene when you

(48:50):
know you know right it is?It is that a good scene in the
movie when the meadows. It's stunning. I could totally see that, like
this would be this is this hasa movie scene written all over it,
which is it's great. Wow.And and he has great lines in there
too, you know, oh yeah, yeah, that's where this whole thing
started too. All of our taglinesare yeah, but I don't know,

(49:17):
it's like the timeline of the wholesaga. So across these like big huge
four books, I think we figuredout it's like like a year and a
half, a year and a half, which is crazy because so much happens
in a year and a half.Um again, not to spoil too much,
but so much happens in a lifetimehappens in a year alf all right,

(49:38):
Um So like honestly, like thefirst book is a little tame for
that timeline, but it's just like, I don't know, I think maybe
it makes it unbelievable for me.It's good as a teenager because you're like,
oh, yeah, I love atfirst sight. But I'm like,
do they know anything about each other? No? I mean it's it's it's

(49:58):
not wise, okay, so wise? Yeah, Like what he's He's a
predator, you know, he's aliteral predator. And um also if he
were just a human guy, uh, he even seemed pretty predator to me.
Like trouble right, yeah, yeah, would you like your kids around
that? He is a problem,like a definite problem. I wouldn't want

(50:22):
to be controlling, but but butyou know, you want to protect people,
and he's he even he says itover and over again. I'm definitely
dangerous. Bella, you shouldn't bearound me. But but she smells so
good, you know, so letme carry you to the woods. That's
the synopsis. Yeah, yeah,that's the entire book. Actually, I

(50:45):
just like, I don't know.I think, like when we reread it,
that was a problem we had ofjust like, what do they even
like about each other? What ishe like about her other than she smells
good? Obviously? Well, whatis she like about him other than like,
oh, I can't kill him.He's really hard to kill, got
all these superpowers. I think forthey both find the other mysterious, and

(51:09):
I think I guess that's I mean, aside from them their attraction, I
think that's enough for them in away. I think if he could read
her mind, he wouldn't probably beas interested. It's just the fact that
he doesn't know it just gets him. It's not handle. It just trying
to figure each other out, andyou know, which is marriage really And

(51:34):
she is like the smartest, youknow, person in the room. Um,
but she's just totally goes dumb aroundhim. What do you what do
you mean by that? Let's let'stalk about that goes down? Well,
she just transforms from being this likewitty, confident person to totally submissive and

(52:00):
um dull, dull minded. Iguess, like just willing to if everything
Edward is all she wants it.At some point I like it, like
it, I like at the endwhen she's not that you know, they've
they've conquered James and they went throughthis great adventure together and now they're going

(52:21):
to Prom and she's she's Bella again. But yeah, she just she's just
too willing to totally give of herjust totally turn off her brain for him.
God, And what a way tobe. Uh yeah, I don't
know. I mean, it's kindof situational though, because she's gotta she's

(52:44):
gotta get flown all over the placeand just like toss around like a rag
doll. But like she kind ofasked to protect herself and to protect Charlie
in theory, so like you know, and then she's in front of all
these like super powerful rid vampires wholike can just like fly her to wherever.
So I'm kind of like, butI do, I don't know what

(53:07):
I would do in that situation,but I probably wouldn't try to come up
with any ideas. You know shecame up with the plan. Oh she
did, yeah, excepted because thenJames calls her and then trick right,
But like that's like I guess she'sbeing less submissive and trying to like protect

(53:28):
people. I don't know. Imean she goes so back and forth with
that of like yeah, she isjust like putty in the Stewe's hands,
but like she has these little spurtsof like but I can do this.
Yeah. Her arc is interesting becauseon one hand, like you said,
she's like just Edward is the onlything she wants, like whatever, like

(53:52):
essentially their love story. I've saidthis before on other episodes, but it's
like she like their love is somehowworth immortality. Therefore, like they both
have to be immortal, Like itwouldn't work if they were both just humans
because like the whole point is likeno one's ever loved anyone as much as
I love you. It's like wehave to make this last. But then

(54:15):
she's also like has one monologue inanother episode or not an episode. She's
on the podcast and like I thinkthe third book where she's like, no,
like I need to be a vampirebecause like I've never felt more myself
than being in this world, andlike I felt so strong and I've had

(54:36):
to face so much adversity, andit's like what should like should you runiversity
really come from, like putting yourlife on the line. Every empires like
ten different times before you're eighteen.So it's like in the context of the
world, she's very strong in likeyou know, in independent. I guess

(55:00):
like she's like kind of making herown decision, but then she like,
how many decisions do you have?I guess when that's your world is where
we land, you're just always running. Yeah, and then all the drama
happens because of this little girl.You know. It's every book. It's

(55:22):
every book. They just got toget themselves into all these big bites because
this little girl wants to be apart of their world. I have a
very random thing that I didn't wantto say early because I want people to
I don't want them to be likeI'm done listening because this is stupid.
It's it's really early. This truckthat she drives, Okay, it's like

(55:46):
a big part of it. It'skind of a character in the book,
right it is. Yeah, thatwas where I was a little annoyed with
Stephanie Meyer, because she's describing thistruck as Charlie says, Oh, it's
from the fifties or sixties, Okay, that'd be a really old truck,

(56:06):
okay. And he's a cop,he knows what the year is truck,
okay. And also it would beso it would be so rusty, like
it would be falling apart in inSeattle, because it's so so trucks don't

(56:27):
survive up there. And I thought, like, I bet you Stephanie Meyers
from a place that is like aridand she's from Arizona, so that's like
she's writing about trucks from the perspectiveof somebody from a place where vehicles like
that survive. And so just earlyon, I was just like, actually,
I'm so annoyed. You know,you didn't put any thought into this.
Um. It's like one of thefirst things you described in the book

(56:50):
is this truck. And I guessI've got sort of like a soft spot
for vehicles in general. We hadwe had an old truck when I was
growing up, my dad did,and it was rusty. You can see
the foe going by through the fourboards, you know, that's what happens
when you don't live in Arizona,Minor Gripe. Very stupid, I know,
but no, that's good that hertruck is iconic and in the movies

(57:14):
everywhere, like we see an oldtruck on the road where like kind of
Twilight, there are visuals to gowith it. And every time I see
an old truck now I think aboutFellas truck and it's like it wasn't good
enough condition that in the second moviethey put a new stereo into it and
it works. Speaking of Stephanie andMeyer and her being from Arizona, would
you like to learn more about her? Sure? So? Did you pick

(57:37):
up on any religious vibes during thisbook? Okay, yeah, that's funny
because I'm somewhere I'm like, Idon't remember that there's I think I maybe
wrote l in my notes somewhere becauseI realize, oh, this got's kind
of this got kind of a genesisvibe to it. And then I look
at the cover of the book andoh, there, you know, there's

(57:58):
these hands holding an apple. It'sof course it does. You're laying it
on pretty thick. But yeah,and then I looked it up just to
confirm that I was not being totallystupid about it, and she says,
yeah, like Genesis. So yes, that's all I know though right now,
So Sephony Meyer is a Mormon.She went to BYU, so she

(58:21):
was from Arizona, went to BYUfor college. I knew that from either
talking listening to Fire one of yourearly episodes. Yeah, when we were
talking about what to go over,I was like, I wonder if he
remembers our first conversation because it wasthe whole nine to eleven led to fifty
Shades of Gray story, which thatis not related to the Mormonism, I'm

(58:42):
realizing, but we told that storyand then she was also going on about
Mormonism, and you were like,this is interesting stuff, make a podcast.
But yeah, she's she got marriedpretty young too. I think at
twenty one we haven't done an episodecompletely on it, but head there not
been so much Mormon vibes. Ourcharacters might have had sex by now.

(59:04):
There were moments. I mean,Edward says he's afraid they allude to it
very briefly, but but you haveto I think that somebody could read past
it. Even it was just soquick, like he's like, well,
I don't want to I could killyou fair argument. Well, and then
later in the saga it's like Igotta wait till marriage and Bella's like boo.

(59:29):
But yeah, I mean there's thatthere's I don't know. I mean
we we kind of did an episodeon The Vulture which we thought were kind
of Mormon, but there's like subtlelittle sprinklings I think of just good old
Mormon values. Well yeah, andjust a constant struggle with like morality,
yeah, and mortality. But like, am I doing the right thing?

(59:52):
But yeah, I think that's thething that we always pick up on.
Well, what is the first bookis based on I'm Trying and Prejudice?
Pride and Prejudice. So each bookis a different classic work of literature.
Okay, so this is Pride andPrejudice, which makes the first half of
the book the whole like snarky.Well they won't they And then it's like,

(01:00:14):
no, I acting like I hateyou because I actually love you.
What I like? Pride and Prejudice? I never read it? Oh have
you seen it? Yeah? Ithink I have. I think so,
mister Darcy. Anyway, book isboth biblical and also Shakespearean. I guess
I don't an original also how didyou feel did you like this as like

(01:00:38):
a boy, because it was becauselike Bella's might you know the guide or
like, it's just it's just oneof those things that when it was like
girls like Twilight, like we werelike girls our age Twilights, the thing
you like. If you like Twilight, you're cool. I don't know.

(01:01:00):
Maybe that's just the way pop culture. Well, I think again, because
we have like a self insert esquecharacter. It's it's feminine in the way
where romance is deemed as feminine.But also like I think the maturity of
the guy sometimes and some of thelike tropes of like the Bad Boy.
Um, we talk a lot abouthow as young woman specifically, it's stuck

(01:01:23):
with us because a lot of thosethemes. So now I'm like, how
do you feel as an adult manabout what I like? Um? So,
I mean everything I said about likingit, I did, and you
know the parts that I liked,I liked. So I think it's I

(01:01:43):
think like that question is is sortof where I was reading this and I
thought, oh, that's a naturalthing for you to ask, and how
do I answer? It was alongthe points around the time where I realized
I'm reading a romance here um anda teen romance told you know, from
a female vantage point, like whydo I like that? And he's it

(01:02:07):
okay that I like it? MI did, and so like in real
life, I guess I find Edwardto be troublesome and I'm you know,
I'm a dad of two daughters,and so Edward would be not welcome in
my house. Please please don't hoveroutside and listen to my thoughts. I

(01:02:32):
mean, I like hearing what Bellahas to say, maybe partly because Edward
has so little to say. Ilike, she's telling the story, so
I'm into it from her perspective.I don't find anything that he has to
say terribly authentic. Was or youprobably can't answer this, but I wonder

(01:02:55):
it was probably less immersive for youthough, even probably because like like we
were literally like, yeah, where'smy boyfriend? You know? Yeah,
you know, I'm reading it andI'm thinking, oh, I see that.
This would definitely be appealing to liketeenage girls, because you know,
you have all the insecurities that everybodyhas, and you're awkward and you know

(01:03:19):
all this stuff the self doubt thateverybody can relate to, but you're secretly
the most sought after girl in theschool. So hell yeah. I mean,
I'm sure that you read this bookthe first time in a different way
than I did. I enjoyed it, but I'm sure our experiences were different.
I can say that pretty confidently.Yeah. Well, and it's funny

(01:03:42):
too, because when we read itfor the second time together as adults first,
so like we were just we wereso annoyed with it. We were
just like, God, she's justan annoying character. Like it's just like
so I roll. So it's interestingfor you to be like I liked her
character for the most part, andI enjoyed reading it because we were so
over it. We were just likethis is so stupid, like in a

(01:04:04):
nostalgia great way, but like it'sjust funny. She was just worse than
I remember. Yeah, well,and we can look back on that and
be like we wanted to be thatso bad. You gotta remember, also,
I'm reading this book and like I'vebeen invited to talk about it on
a podcast, and like I don'tget to talk about man fires, and

(01:04:24):
in literature, I talk about governmentand boring things. So yeah, I
was probably I'm sure it colored myimpressions of the book knowing oh boy,
yeah, like to sit around totalk about it. Yeah, like you
were looking for things. So ifI hadn't been, um, going to
okay, I wouldn't have read it. If if you know, you hadn't

(01:04:46):
invited me to read it and likesaid, let's talk about it in a
podcast, Um, it wouldn't havebeen on my shortlist. So I don't
know, but that, yeah,it was fun. But that that's how
I read it, which is nota I'm an experience for most Twilight readers,
which is fun. We don't getthat perspective a latch. It's a
lot of girlies. My daughter madefun of it a little bit. Okay,

(01:05:09):
I do I want to know this? Do you? So? Your
daughter was like I maybe want toread this. She is kind of curious
about reading it. I don't wantto say anything and embarrass her in podcasts,
but how old is you know?This is the my thirteen year old?
And she's like, so did shefind out he's a vampire yet?

(01:05:30):
You know, just totally teasing me. Is I'm you know, Dad's over
there in the corner, just likeleave me alone and reading this book and
she's making fun of me. Andthen and then you know, she had
heard like her friends and had sortof made fun of how he hovers around
in her room when she sleeps andwatches her sleep. So the kids they

(01:05:55):
don't think that's very cool, youknow that she watches her sleep. Yeah,
and so they do make fun ofthat. I guess that wasn't just
her making fun of it because shehasn't read the book, we haven't watched
the movie. But in the yeartwenty twenty three, teenagers are making fun
as they should, and we aretoo, to be fair, Yeah,
that seems unnecessary too, Like thatjust yeah, she's like pretty good.

(01:06:16):
End here, he's like no window, and she's like, oh cool,
okay, Yeah, she let thatgo pretty pretty easy. Yeah. Well,
it's so interesting too to think aboutthat. Like, it was a
completely different time when it was published. It was two thousand and seven.
We were like we were young,but also like our values as a society

(01:06:38):
were like completely in a different place. Like again, like we valued the
bad boy who like snuck through yourwindow something yeah, but like also like
the boy who was completely and utterlyobsessed with you, so much so that
he climbed through your window and watchedyou sleep in a respectable way, I
guess, but it's just funny becausenow we're like, that's crazy. It

(01:07:01):
is, but I don't even detectsme exactly, but like the mics of
the world, and I know hetold me he's he's not actually good,
but he's not like the word likehe's a high school guy. But they're
not getting they're not getting books writtenabout him though they're not they're not the
best selling type. I don't thinkthat's changed, you know. I think

(01:07:26):
that's sort of I hope we're moreaware of bad behaviors and what we don't
want to encourage. But yeah,I don't. I don't think like the
bad, brooding, mysterious person isgoing to be more interesting now. Still
yeah, the forbidden fruit, noexactly. That's what I've been saying.
Part of the reason, one ofthe many reasons that we have trouble getting

(01:07:49):
through these books is because we're alsojust like why would you want that?
Like even the like trope of likeI'm not like the other girls that Bella
often takes on, or just ohbut that's so like not feminist. It's
so like like she's supposed to bea feminist character, but that's such a
like anti feminist thing to be like, oh, other girls are bad and
I don't want to be like them. So like that that kind of mentality

(01:08:12):
of her thinking she's above other peopleher age is like, we're like,
that's so lame, you know.So it's just like these subtle little things
that now, yeah, and youngpeople even like you know, we were
Let's forget how old we were whenwe read these in two thous we were
ten when the movie came out.I would say, like ten to fifteen
is probably when we were interacting withthese the most. But like I would

(01:08:35):
even say, like a twelve thirteenyear old now is like that's kind of
gross. Yeah, I mean right, like you's just at the time,
it was so perfect because it waslike the rise of the bad boy and
the rise of the type that's calledthe manic Pixie dream girl, which is
like the mysterious. So I wouldsay Alice. Alice is like weirder and

(01:08:56):
quirkier like the manic Pixie dream girl. You kind of gotta be a little
quirky and like arts like tom boyishsometimes like you're willing to game with the
guys, but you also love likeRed Lipsick like just a weird smoking and
yeah, reading Shakespeare. Yeah,so she's like starting that stereotype. And
then you got the bad voice.So we were like, oh, like

(01:09:16):
the two misunderstood people coming together.And there's just something so like what is
even the word, like, Idon't know, it just like a sense
of yearning and like the mysteriousness andthe angst. I guess yeah, it's
just it felt so cool at thetime. And know we're like m m

(01:09:38):
a something that doesn't which is greatcontemplate my life a lot of progress.
We love young people and the acceptingattitude they have these days. But yeah,
it is cringey to read now whenyou were like I wanted that a
lot, just so you know,Sean, so like not that you would

(01:10:00):
ever tell your daughter what she canand can't free, but would you recommend
this book to her if she hasa little bit of an interest, If
she has an interest, she canread it. Yeah, yeah, And
would I recommend it? Yeah?There it is, um, I don't
know, I mean, like reallyit is a little odd. It's it's
a little weird thinking about your daughterreading about about Edward Cullen. You know,

(01:10:29):
yeah, I think you know,I think she's I think my daughter's
actually like I'm not sure if she'dget into it or not. I don't
know. Yeah, it's hard tosay. Well, okay, would you
recommend it to one of your oneof your friends? Yeah, heck yeah,
I think you guys, because thenwe could talk about it and um,
you know, like from a broperspective, But you would recommend.

(01:10:51):
But would you recommend it to likewe're just talking right now, to like
just anyone, to anyone at all? What? I okay, Well,
okay, if there's like the there'sthe possibility that I just like actually like
romance oh stories, and I justhaven't read them, and maybe like maybe

(01:11:13):
I should read those romance not vampire. Yeah, I mean I will say
so this book set off an entirenew genre of like mythological creature fantasy love
well. Like, I also thinkthe romance gets more interesting because you have
like a weird like mythical like thrilleryplot on top of it. I think

(01:11:34):
that's why like the movies, becauseI really don't like romance movies. I
think they're boring. But like thatmovie with all of the fighting kind of
fun. Yeah, I like fighting. I do think like my parents will
just like and like if Twilight's onMTV or TV S or whatever, like

(01:11:58):
they're watching it. It was rainingyesterday in Lacrosse where I was visiting my
parents, and my mom goes,be a good day to just get a
blanket and watch all the Twilight.Like I walked into my dad's house once
and he was just laying on thecouch watching I think it was breaking down.
It's just ear New Moon and itwas just on and he like knows

(01:12:18):
the plot now, so it'll belike, Bella, don't do it.
Yeah, And like so I thinkhe was a family could like get into
the films. I just saw themovie today of Bella and Edward, and
you know, you read a bookand like I hadn't seen the movie first,

(01:12:39):
and you have sort of an imageof what they'll look like. She's
way cooler than I kind of imaginefrom like oh yeah, yeah, Bella,
look at you. And he isway more vampire than I imagine in
the book. In the book,it's it's like, what, there's something
different about them. I can't Ican't put my finger on it. And

(01:13:01):
then you see the picture from themovie and it's like, oh, look
at that vampire. Yeah, thatobvious vampire. The movies are worth getting
into. Okay, would you Iguess. I guess I just gave a
really good recommendation. But one ofmy questions I have is would you watch
the movie now that you've read it? I would, but like I feel
immediately like, are you like readyfor it? I almost always have when

(01:13:26):
I read the book first. Ialmost always don't like the movie as much.
Very that is very nearly all thetime. And I'm sure you know
that's like a it's like a widelyheld experience. I'd say, let me
tell you, it's not a widelyheld experience in the Twilight though, all
right, like people love them movies. I do think it's like the book.

(01:13:48):
Well, I don't know. Idon't think I have a very like
objective perspective for this because I sawthe first movie and then I was like
I need to know this universe,and then I bought all the books.
But I think the movie is likekind of help you look past all this
stuff that bothers you and the yeah, and then you're like, okay,
this is entertaining, like they're coolbecause you see them just as like two

(01:14:11):
teenagers. Yeah, whatever, butit's like, I think the thing with
the movie is, yeah, theythey bulldoze past like some of those like
awkward moments. The pacing gets somuch better because obviously it's a movie you're
able to you know something. Meyer, I'm gonna be honest. I don't
think she's a great writer. She'sokay, She's fine. She gets kind
of better. Um, but Ithink you get a better idea of some

(01:14:31):
of those, like some of themoments, some of the intimate moments between
them, that feels more genuine inthe movie than like it comes across in
the book because she's too busy,like describing his eye color. I guess
to get to bypass a lot ofthat. It's just like the vibes of
the movie are so good and they'reso so If you don't like the movie,

(01:14:53):
you have to stop talking to usbecause we'll be mad about it,
all right. Um, do youthink there would ever be a universe where
you read the other books? Ido, potentially, which is why I
am like a little reluctant to watchthe movie, just because I feel like,
once I watched the first movie,I'll probably just go through the series
and then I probably won't read thebooks. That's fair. I'm kind of

(01:15:15):
I'm kind of intrigued now, andit was it was like definitely an escape.
So well, whenever you're ready,I can, we'll switch the books.
I didn't I should have brought thenext one just assuming you would want
it, But I would Yeah,I mean, I would say, I
would say if you did want towatch the movies, you could watch Twilight

(01:15:36):
now and then do New Moon,because I think where you start getting into
like the movies mashing together really wellis Eclipse and Breaking Dawn. Okay,
so you could go Twilight book,Twilight movie, New Moon book, New
Moon movie. But then from thereyou got to do the books, which

(01:15:56):
the books at that point get reallytough to get through because they are very
large and super annoying. Okay,yeah, unless you know yourself and know
that. Yeah. I just Ireally love how in the beginning you did
not know the plot of Twilight,and now you're an expert, like you
probably know this book better than wedo because it's fresher in your mind.

(01:16:18):
I mean, it's it is fornow. Yeah, Sean. My last
question is out of ten, whatwould you write this book out of ten?
When I oh, like that's atough question. I'm gonna give it.
I'm gonna give it a seven.A seven, damn yeah. Is
it too high? Probably no,I don't know. Yeah, it was

(01:16:40):
like an enjoyable experience for me,So I am glad, Like I the
faults were there and glaring. Ijust had fun. So giving it a
seven, screw it. It wasfun. Well, that's what young adult
fiction should do, you know.It's like it's not always like the most
intellectual, but it's Yeah, whenyou read it too early in life,

(01:17:00):
which maybe is what happened to us, it's like, oh, like this
is everything. It was an eleven. Yeah, well yeah, and it
like makes you want to like likeit's not you don't read it for fun,
like you read it for the drama, and like you want to feel
what they feel. So a goodbit of childhood for us. Um and
now it's part of you. It'sa part of you. Welcome to the

(01:17:23):
culture, part of my childhood.Now, welcome to the club. Yeah,
thank you. I appreciate it.As if you cannot run me,
as if you could fight me off. Vampire