May 30, 2025 • 25 mins
After the Supreme Court ruled that mandatory life sentences for juveniles were unconstitutional, a flurry of re-sentencings followed across the country. But for juvenile lifers in Tennessee, it was like nothing happened. What followed were several legal battles, culminating in a Tennessee Supreme Court decision that ultimately ruled the state’s sentencing unconstitutional. The Republican-led state legislature responded by proposing a torrent of “tough on crime” bills aimed at juveniles. We head to Tennessee, where we explore a recent push to funnel more children into the adult prison system.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Sintoya Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
She's been in prison for more than a decade now,
but her case is catching fire on social media.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Well you building today, Brown's lawyers are heading all the
way to Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
They're going to go before the Sixth Circuit Court of
Appeals to argue that Cintoya Brown's sentence was unconstitutional. Till
you builds go, her dream of freedom now denied, as
the Tennessee Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Brown will become
eligible for parole after her sixty ninth birthday.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Chances are, if you paid attention to the news at
any point between twenty seventeen and twenty nineteen, you've heard
Cintoya Brown's name. Then, in her thirties, the Tennessee native
had been serving a life sentence for a murder committed
as a teen. At the time of her trial in
two thousand and six, the state of Tennessee had a
mandatory sentence for this type of crime, life in prison,
(00:55):
no matter the circumstances.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Really have a situation where a sixteen year old child
who operates at about a ten year old level, who
has organic brain damage and that affected her all the
way to the present. When you look at all this
was it a fundamentally fair trial.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Cinoya was born to an alcohol and crack addicted teen
mom and was later diagnosed with fetal alcohol syndrome. By
two years old, her mother had given her up. She
later became a runaway. As a young teen in the streets,
she was sex trafficked by an older man. Then, one
night in two thousand and four, Cintoya was picked up
(01:38):
by a man in his forties. She was sixteen. While
in bed, Cinoya thought her abuser was reaching for a
gun and she shot him. She claimed it was self defense,
but it didn't really matter per Tennessee's law, Centoya was
tried as an adult. WADA jury found defendant Centoya Denase Brown.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Partly grey murdered, guilty.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Of fellowly murdered and sentenced to life. More than a
decade into Cintoya's time in prison, artist Rihanna shared her
case in twenty seventeen, and it quickly went viral. A
number of high profile supporters, including celebrities Kim Kardashian and
(02:27):
Snoop Dogg, called for a second chance for Cinoia. In
twenty nineteen, Cintoya was finally granted clemency. By then Tennessee
Governor Bill Haslam. But what about the other one hundred
and eighty plus juvenile lifers who remain in prison in Tennessee,
the ones who didn't get gofund me campaigns, segments on
(02:50):
national TV, and support from celebrities.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
From Futuro Media and PRX. It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria
Ino Rosa today the growing movement to push juveniles into
the adult prison system in Tennessee. In our show today,
producer Jurieta Martinelli, who you heard from at the top,
(03:25):
is going to take us to Tennessee, where a legal
battle is currently brewing between those who believe in rehabilitation
for kids facing time in prison and those who wish
to see longer, harsher sentencing for minors. Here's Jurieta Martinelli
once again.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
The science is very clear. Human beings don't fully develop
their brains until they're at least twenty five, sometimes even older.
That's particularly true for the prefrontal cortex of the brain,
which is responsible for our decision making and our ability
to think through consequences of our actions. That's why in
twenty sixteen, the Supreme Court made a monumental decision in
(04:07):
a case known as Montgomery versus Louisiana.
Speaker 7 (04:11):
Now five to four decision, the High Court ruled that
it is unconstitutional for states to mandate sentences of life
without parole for juveniles under the age of eighteen.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
A flurry of re sentencing hearings followed all around the
country for joannile lifers, but in Tennessee it seemed as
if the Supreme Court decision never came down. Tennessee claimed
that the Supreme Court decision didn't apply to them because
its mandatory sentences are technically sixty to life, and even
(04:42):
when the Tennessee Supreme Court reduced the minimum serving time
to fifty one years in twenty eighteen, advocates argued it
was still basically a life sentence. I mean, let's do
the math. Someone sentence at sixteen years old, like Centoia,
has the right to go in front of a parole
after serving fifty one years. By then that person would
(05:04):
be at least sixty seven. But according to data from
the Tennessee Department of Corrections, the average life expectancy of
an incarcerated person in the state is just fifty two.
So basically, the chance that you would even make it
to a parole hearing is in practice no, and that's
(05:24):
exactly what led to another lawsuit before the Tennessee Supreme
Court in twenty twenty two. The case revolved around Tyshawn Booker,
who likes Centoya, was convicted under the States to facto
life sentence when he was sixteen. Booker's lawyers argued that
the sentence was unconstitutional. This time, Tennessee's highest court agreed.
Speaker 8 (05:48):
Do at five tonight life in prison no more for
certain inmates. Recently, the Tennessee Supreme Court reversed years of
law ruling it is unconstitutional for a juvenile to serve
a mandatory life sentence in the state. The court says
juveniles should be eligible for parole after twenty five to
thirty six years in prison instead of fifty one.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Advocates thought, this is it. Change is coming, and in
a way, change did come, just not quite as they imagined.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Lieutenant Governor Randy McNally says violent crime is out of
control in Tennessee and that lawmakers must change the process
so criminal gangs can no longer use young people for
violence with impunity. Republican lawmakers want more juveniles to be
tried as adults.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
The state legislature, controlled by Republicans, unleashed a flurry of
new bills following the Tennessee Supreme Court's decision.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Rep.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Robert Stevens of Smyrna, a neighboring town to Nashville, introduced
a bill that would require juveniles sixteen or older to
be tried in adult court for their second defense, even
for petty arrests like shoplifting. Another bill by Republican lawmaker
John Gillespie of Memphis would allow courts to consider a
(07:09):
person's juvenile record when making decisions about bond even decades
down the line. But according to advocates and lawyers that
we spoke with, the worst of all was passed at
the start of the year. It's called blended sentencing.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
You're blending their sentence where part of it's done in
a juvenile setting and part of it's done in the
adult setting.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
That's Judge Sheila Callaway, who for over a decade has
presided over a juvenile courtroom in Nashville. Before that, she
spent a decade in the same courtroom as a magistrate.
Calloway says the new law requires judges like her to
impose on minors as young as fourteen years old, a
juvenile sentence and an adult sentence once they reach legal age.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
If a child over fourteen commits a certain serious attention,
those sentences could be eligible for our blended.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Sentencing, and it comes with some new rules.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
They have the right to have a jury trial on
that matter within one year, and that jury trial has
to be held in the adult system by an adult judge.
Then they are sent back to the junial court judge
to do the actual sentencing, and so as they judge,
I have to sentence them to no less than serving
(08:33):
up until the time they're nineteen years old, and once
they turn nineteen, I am also obligated to sentence them
to an adult sentence.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I want is to really take in what's happening here.
Say a sixteen year old is charged with a felony
like robbery, then a judge is obligated to sentence them
to prison until they're nineteen years old, and then on
top of that, the teen has to be sentenced a
second time for the same crime as an adult too.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
You have the constitutional right to have a jury of
your peers, but if you're our fourteen or fifteen year old,
you're not allowed to be on a jury. Most juries
are filled with people who are voters first and foremost.
There's not a lot of diversity in the voting pool,
(09:24):
and so what you find out is most of those
juries of your peers, even as adults, aren't really what
our peers look like. And so there's a question about
whether this jury your peers is really going to stand
up to constitutional muster.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Some context here, about seventy five percent of Tennessee's population
is white, but four out of five juvenile lifers in
prisons in Tennessee today are black men. The juries already
don't represent them. She also points out that the way
that you law is written, it is an adult court
(10:02):
judge who hears the facts and evidence of the case
and decides whether to convict. When the child is sent
back to her courtroom just for sentencing, she now has
to issue a sentence without being the one who heard
the circumstances around the case.
Speaker 6 (10:23):
When we come back, we're going to continue looking at
why those working in juvenile justice say moving kids to
the adult system is a mistake, and we take a
visit to a group of volunteers hoping to step in
so miners don't end up in the system in the
first place.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Stay with us.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
Yes, before the break, we learned about the growing pressure
(11:03):
to prosecute children as adults in Tennessee. Now we pick
up with a juvenile court judge who tells us why
it matters to keep kids within their own justice system.
Here's Riata Martinelli once again.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Judge Sheila Callaway says her nearly two decades in a
juvenile courtroom has taught her that many of those children
who end up in front of her are also dealing
with complex trauma and unmet needs, something her courtroom, which
she calls trauma informed, has been trained to detect and
deal with. That is not true of adult courts, where
(11:41):
yet many juveniles end up in.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
The majority of the youth that we see who have
been charged with crimes have started in our system either
being a child who has abused or neglected or being
the center of a custody battle. And so there's a
large number of our youth that come to the system
that we're not giving the best opportunity to thrive from
(12:06):
when they were children or when they were babies. And
for me, that is something that is super important for
us to understand.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Advocates have long said what we often end up seeing
is victims become victimizers if there's no intervention to heal
the root issue.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
When we put children in prisons, we are stopping their growth.
We are halting their ability to change in a positive way.
We are placing them in ultra negative circumstances where their
brain is absorbing everything around them. We are cutting off
(12:43):
their ability to get true education, to have counseling and
job training, and all the things that we need for
our youth to develop in a positive way.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So when a child ends up in an adult prison system,
the effect is the whole opposite.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
A adult system is about crime and punishment. We can
absolutely affect the way that their brains are developing, which
gives them the opportunity to be rehabilitated. That's what the
goal of a juvenile system was supposed to be and
what it should always be.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
But if juvenile crime in the state is so out
of control that measures like this are needed to protect
the general population, then it makes sense.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
The thing is, despite Republican lawmakers across the state pushing
for tough on crime sentencing and ongoing claims that juvenile
crime is higher than ever, data actually shows that As
of twenty twenty four, youth arrests have decreased by more
than half in the last decade.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Educating the public is difficult, and we have several different
media that are constantly talking about the juvenile prime is increasing,
and it's the same story of the same kid that
committed the same crime. And so people who are listening
to news and hearing these things are hearing, oh my god,
(14:22):
all these kids are breaking in stuff. I think sometimes
our news media highlights juvenile crime much, much meta more
than they highlight adult crime. That's not really.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Accurate, Calloway says. In essence, what we're seeing is the
unexpected result of the Supreme Court decision that aim to
bring Tennessee laws regarding juvenile lifers to equal footing with
other states. It's a hard push by Republican lawmakers. The
(14:54):
opposite way.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
I think it's an effort to open the fleck who
has to go into the adult system.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
So, how do you deal with public safety with children
who commit crimes, especially serious crimes that hurt and alter
the lives of other people. How do you provide accountability
while still taking their humanity into account. It's a question
that judges, lawyers, activists and lawmakers have been scrambling over
(15:29):
for a long time, seemingly nowhere closer to a solution.
Speaker 9 (15:35):
It's not a simple, straightforward like here's the secret magic
bullet that cures at all. But when it comes to prevention,
it's a matter of just really showing a young child
that they are cared for, nurtured, and that there's a
community of support.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
That's Marcel Hernandez I.
Speaker 9 (15:49):
Am founder of Be About Change, and we are here
at the Boys and Girls Club in Columbia, Tennessee.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Hernandez currently works in development for programs that empower marginalized communities.
He also runs this program called Project Lead. He partners
with other nonprofits, community groups, and even school systems to
encourage at risk kids to participate.
Speaker 9 (16:11):
We know the strongest productor of negative justice outcomes involve
poverty and the inability to see available life choices. So
one thing that we really prefer to focus on is
how can we elevate the viewpoint of young people so
that we can then see farther, wider, broader in terms
of what life has to offer. Oftentimes it's just a
(16:32):
matter of either environmental factors or circumstances or past traumas
even and things that seemingly don't allow us to see
farther down the road. So we try to function as
a mirror so that young people can see their own strengths.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
On this warm, sunny April morning. I get to witness
it myself.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
So I'm going to give you also candie.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
You all can have as much of that as possible.
Speaker 8 (16:58):
However, the number of star wars that you are holding
in your hand is the number of things that you
have to tell the person who says, tell me about
your son.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
All right, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
You have four minutes, all right, simply walk around and
talk to each other. And I just want to hear
one question.
Speaker 8 (17:24):
I want you to ask the person to tell me
about yourself.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
All right, it's going to work. It's gonna work.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I look over at Marcel and he's smiling.
Speaker 9 (17:34):
They're leading to a personal pitch learning how to tell
others about ourselves. So just social skills communication.
Speaker 10 (17:43):
It's just so funny because they had the opportunity to
pull as many candies as they wanted. But now it's
a little bit of punishment if you got a little greedy.
So it's such a dual lesson right.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Columbia is a town with about fifteen thousand residents an
hour south west of Nashville. There really isn't much to
do in Columbia. On the drive there, I pass gorgeous
open pastures, farms, cows. It's a big football town, so
a lot of kids dream of making it by playing sports.
As I sit in on the activities of the day,
(18:18):
I learn more about them. There are ten kids here,
nine boys and one girl. They range in ages from
twelve to seventeen. The day started with a group workout. First,
they did push ups and burpies. Hernandez is a lifelong
believer that learning to be disciplined and fitness spreads to
(18:39):
other areas. The kids seem to enjoy it. Most of
the leaders in the room today are African American men
as young as college aged all the way to retirement.
They tell me that it's important that kids have male
figures in their lives to look up to, who understand
where they come from and what their lives are like.
Speaker 9 (18:58):
Oftentimes we find that we're trying to kind of undo
a lifetime of things that have kind of led up
to that, and so in a very real sense, it's
more of an intervention rather than a prevention.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
But at Project Lead, the name of the game is
here and now, not when it's too late.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So somebody tell me from your experience, how either easy
or how difficult was that? It was easy?
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
All you had to talk about was so all right?
So who got the I'm gonna be right over there
with who got the opportunity to talk to Elijah? All right?
Speaker 8 (19:33):
Somebody tell me what.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
They remember this tell me about yourself. Question is going
to be important for you to know and to know.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
How to answer it, because you will be asking job
interviews to tell me about yourself as you begin to
get into college and go.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Forward and move into workspaces.
Speaker 8 (19:49):
People want to know who you are.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
But what A few brave volunteers stand on a small
table and share their elevator pitch that they spent the
morning working on mentors, having teaching them how to confidently
introduce themselves, share what they have to offer, and ask
for what they want. They tell the young people in
the room that it'll help them when applying for college
and later for a good job. They will have college interviews,
(20:16):
they will get good jobs. They want them to envision it,
to see themselves doing it successfully.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Tell about yourself.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
Nice meet.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I'm a numberious school.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
I recently joined the track team and I'm currently headed
to the Sun Secret I'm interested in playing football this
year and I love to.
Speaker 8 (20:37):
Opportunities that you play sports at the next levels.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Uh, what do you be helping to?
Speaker 10 (20:42):
Scheduling stuff the next week?
Speaker 6 (20:44):
The same?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
The must be your time.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
One by one, more hands go up. In the end,
every kid has volunteered to go up and introduce themselves
their peers, and the mentors cheer them on. They tell
them how well they've done, how confident they sound. Even
when they're dismissed, the kids hang around. A few of
them help clean up, Others go to the court and
(21:12):
shoot a basketball. A couple others linger around chatting with
Hernandez and the group of men here today it's a Saturday,
a day off from school, but the kids are not
ready to go home.
Speaker 9 (21:24):
The biggest piece that we've seen when it comes to
success or shifting those trajectories is, of course, number one
is family engagement. Family involvement. Number two community involvement. So
young people seem to thrive when they are fully aware
that there's a community.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Of support at the end of the day, the mentors
who are volunteering from different programs and cities, most of
whom have just met today, gather around. They give thanks,
speaking strength on to one another, just as they did
the children.
Speaker 9 (21:54):
This confirmation that we get the right key people here
to make all this happen.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
So close to you.
Speaker 9 (22:00):
I really admire your work, and you're a man. You're
gonna you're gonna keep writing, right. I can see it.
I can I can see the day when Jack remembers
how you put your hand on his shoulder and told
him I've been where you're at.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
You didn't have somebody that I could say I looked
up to that was big.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
You feel.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
Appreciate.
Speaker 8 (22:25):
So I would encourage all of us to be praying
for the hearts of these kids and show up actually
their hearts. Be softly, be willing to listen to the
wisdom in this room.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
One of the local leaders speaks up.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
I just noticed you. I've been arm a whole lot.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
I just know how it works.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
They have to see it, and it has to say
exist because a lot of people do.
Speaker 8 (22:45):
This, but then you don't.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
You know, So that's really the key component to that
come said Okay, you know what, that's something I'm for
to or.
Speaker 6 (22:55):
It's just another thing.
Speaker 8 (22:57):
And getting the parents, I'm kids, get the parents, believe in.
Speaker 10 (23:02):
There because we're only un failure away of being just
like some people.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And maybe really that's the only way out of this,
showing up and showing care and commitment to the parents too,
and understanding that every adult was once a child, maybe
a child who was also failed by the system, and
treating children as children and working together as a community
(23:38):
to make sure their needs are met before it's too late.
After all, it does take a village.
Speaker 6 (23:59):
Our episode was produced by Julieta Martinelli and edited by
Andrea Lopez Cruzado. It was mixed by gabriel A Bayez.
Fact checking for this episode by Roxanna Aguire. The Latino
USA team also includes Julia Caruso, Jessica Ellis, Victor Ri Estrava,
Dominique Inestrosa, Renaldo Lenos Junior, Stephanie Lebau, Luis, Luna Marta Martinez,
(24:24):
Monica Morales, Garcia, JJ Carubin, Tasha Sandoval, Moor Saudi, and
Nancy Truchuillo. Fernanda Chavari is our managing editor. Benni Lee Ramirez,
Maria Garcia and I are co executive producers and I'm
your host, Maria Josa. Join us again on our next episode.
In the meantime, look for us on all of your
social media. I'll see you on Instagram. Asta approxima note
(24:47):
bayaz ciao.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Latino USA is made possible in part by Public Welfare Foundation,
catalyzing transformative approaches to justice that are community led, restorative,
and racially just. Skyline Foundation and this project was completed
with the support of a grant from Columbia University's IRA A.
(25:14):
Lippman Center for Journalism and Civil and Human Rights
Sintoya Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
She's been in prison for more than a decade now,
but her case is catching fire on social media.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Well you building today, Brown's lawyers are heading all the
way to Cincinnati.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
They're going to go before the Sixth Circuit Court of
Appeals to argue that Cintoya Brown's sentence was unconstitutional. Till
you builds go, her dream of freedom now denied, as
the Tennessee Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Brown will become
eligible for parole after her sixty ninth birthday.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Chances are, if you paid attention to the news at
any point between twenty seventeen and twenty nineteen, you've heard
Cintoya Brown's name. Then, in her thirties, the Tennessee native
had been serving a life sentence for a murder committed
as a teen. At the time of her trial in
two thousand and six, the state of Tennessee had a
mandatory sentence for this type of crime, life in prison,
(00:55):
no matter the circumstances.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Really have a situation where a sixteen year old child
who operates at about a ten year old level, who
has organic brain damage and that affected her all the
way to the present. When you look at all this
was it a fundamentally fair trial.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Cinoya was born to an alcohol and crack addicted teen
mom and was later diagnosed with fetal alcohol syndrome. By
two years old, her mother had given her up. She
later became a runaway. As a young teen in the streets,
she was sex trafficked by an older man. Then, one
night in two thousand and four, Cintoya was picked up
(01:38):
by a man in his forties. She was sixteen. While
in bed, Cinoya thought her abuser was reaching for a
gun and she shot him. She claimed it was self defense,
but it didn't really matter per Tennessee's law, Centoya was
tried as an adult. WADA jury found defendant Centoya Denase Brown.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Partly grey murdered, guilty.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Of fellowly murdered and sentenced to life. More than a
decade into Cintoya's time in prison, artist Rihanna shared her
case in twenty seventeen, and it quickly went viral. A
number of high profile supporters, including celebrities Kim Kardashian and
(02:27):
Snoop Dogg, called for a second chance for Cinoia. In
twenty nineteen, Cintoya was finally granted clemency. By then Tennessee
Governor Bill Haslam. But what about the other one hundred
and eighty plus juvenile lifers who remain in prison in Tennessee,
the ones who didn't get gofund me campaigns, segments on
(02:50):
national TV, and support from celebrities.
Speaker 6 (03:04):
From Futuro Media and PRX. It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria
Ino Rosa today the growing movement to push juveniles into
the adult prison system in Tennessee. In our show today,
producer Jurieta Martinelli, who you heard from at the top,
(03:25):
is going to take us to Tennessee, where a legal
battle is currently brewing between those who believe in rehabilitation
for kids facing time in prison and those who wish
to see longer, harsher sentencing for minors. Here's Jurieta Martinelli
once again.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
The science is very clear. Human beings don't fully develop
their brains until they're at least twenty five, sometimes even older.
That's particularly true for the prefrontal cortex of the brain,
which is responsible for our decision making and our ability
to think through consequences of our actions. That's why in
twenty sixteen, the Supreme Court made a monumental decision in
(04:07):
a case known as Montgomery versus Louisiana.
Speaker 7 (04:11):
Now five to four decision, the High Court ruled that
it is unconstitutional for states to mandate sentences of life
without parole for juveniles under the age of eighteen.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
A flurry of re sentencing hearings followed all around the
country for joannile lifers, but in Tennessee it seemed as
if the Supreme Court decision never came down. Tennessee claimed
that the Supreme Court decision didn't apply to them because
its mandatory sentences are technically sixty to life, and even
(04:42):
when the Tennessee Supreme Court reduced the minimum serving time
to fifty one years in twenty eighteen, advocates argued it
was still basically a life sentence. I mean, let's do
the math. Someone sentence at sixteen years old, like Centoia,
has the right to go in front of a parole
after serving fifty one years. By then that person would
(05:04):
be at least sixty seven. But according to data from
the Tennessee Department of Corrections, the average life expectancy of
an incarcerated person in the state is just fifty two.
So basically, the chance that you would even make it
to a parole hearing is in practice no, and that's
(05:24):
exactly what led to another lawsuit before the Tennessee Supreme
Court in twenty twenty two. The case revolved around Tyshawn Booker,
who likes Centoya, was convicted under the States to facto
life sentence when he was sixteen. Booker's lawyers argued that
the sentence was unconstitutional. This time, Tennessee's highest court agreed.
Speaker 8 (05:48):
Do at five tonight life in prison no more for
certain inmates. Recently, the Tennessee Supreme Court reversed years of
law ruling it is unconstitutional for a juvenile to serve
a mandatory life sentence in the state. The court says
juveniles should be eligible for parole after twenty five to
thirty six years in prison instead of fifty one.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Advocates thought, this is it. Change is coming, and in
a way, change did come, just not quite as they imagined.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Lieutenant Governor Randy McNally says violent crime is out of
control in Tennessee and that lawmakers must change the process
so criminal gangs can no longer use young people for
violence with impunity. Republican lawmakers want more juveniles to be
tried as adults.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
The state legislature, controlled by Republicans, unleashed a flurry of
new bills following the Tennessee Supreme Court's decision.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Rep.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Robert Stevens of Smyrna, a neighboring town to Nashville, introduced
a bill that would require juveniles sixteen or older to
be tried in adult court for their second defense, even
for petty arrests like shoplifting. Another bill by Republican lawmaker
John Gillespie of Memphis would allow courts to consider a
(07:09):
person's juvenile record when making decisions about bond even decades
down the line. But according to advocates and lawyers that
we spoke with, the worst of all was passed at
the start of the year. It's called blended sentencing.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
You're blending their sentence where part of it's done in
a juvenile setting and part of it's done in the
adult setting.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
That's Judge Sheila Callaway, who for over a decade has
presided over a juvenile courtroom in Nashville. Before that, she
spent a decade in the same courtroom as a magistrate.
Calloway says the new law requires judges like her to
impose on minors as young as fourteen years old, a
juvenile sentence and an adult sentence once they reach legal age.
Speaker 5 (07:54):
If a child over fourteen commits a certain serious attention,
those sentences could be eligible for our blended.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Sentencing, and it comes with some new rules.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
They have the right to have a jury trial on
that matter within one year, and that jury trial has
to be held in the adult system by an adult judge.
Then they are sent back to the junial court judge
to do the actual sentencing, and so as they judge,
I have to sentence them to no less than serving
(08:33):
up until the time they're nineteen years old, and once
they turn nineteen, I am also obligated to sentence them
to an adult sentence.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I want is to really take in what's happening here.
Say a sixteen year old is charged with a felony
like robbery, then a judge is obligated to sentence them
to prison until they're nineteen years old, and then on
top of that, the teen has to be sentenced a
second time for the same crime as an adult too.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
You have the constitutional right to have a jury of
your peers, but if you're our fourteen or fifteen year old,
you're not allowed to be on a jury. Most juries
are filled with people who are voters first and foremost.
There's not a lot of diversity in the voting pool,
(09:24):
and so what you find out is most of those
juries of your peers, even as adults, aren't really what
our peers look like. And so there's a question about
whether this jury your peers is really going to stand
up to constitutional muster.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Some context here, about seventy five percent of Tennessee's population
is white, but four out of five juvenile lifers in
prisons in Tennessee today are black men. The juries already
don't represent them. She also points out that the way
that you law is written, it is an adult court
(10:02):
judge who hears the facts and evidence of the case
and decides whether to convict. When the child is sent
back to her courtroom just for sentencing, she now has
to issue a sentence without being the one who heard
the circumstances around the case.
Speaker 6 (10:23):
When we come back, we're going to continue looking at
why those working in juvenile justice say moving kids to
the adult system is a mistake, and we take a
visit to a group of volunteers hoping to step in
so miners don't end up in the system in the
first place.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Stay with us.
Speaker 6 (10:43):
Yes, before the break, we learned about the growing pressure
(11:03):
to prosecute children as adults in Tennessee. Now we pick
up with a juvenile court judge who tells us why
it matters to keep kids within their own justice system.
Here's Riata Martinelli once again.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Judge Sheila Callaway says her nearly two decades in a
juvenile courtroom has taught her that many of those children
who end up in front of her are also dealing
with complex trauma and unmet needs, something her courtroom, which
she calls trauma informed, has been trained to detect and
deal with. That is not true of adult courts, where
(11:41):
yet many juveniles end up in.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
The majority of the youth that we see who have
been charged with crimes have started in our system either
being a child who has abused or neglected or being
the center of a custody battle. And so there's a
large number of our youth that come to the system
that we're not giving the best opportunity to thrive from
(12:06):
when they were children or when they were babies. And
for me, that is something that is super important for
us to understand.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Advocates have long said what we often end up seeing
is victims become victimizers if there's no intervention to heal
the root issue.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
When we put children in prisons, we are stopping their growth.
We are halting their ability to change in a positive way.
We are placing them in ultra negative circumstances where their
brain is absorbing everything around them. We are cutting off
(12:43):
their ability to get true education, to have counseling and
job training, and all the things that we need for
our youth to develop in a positive way.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
So when a child ends up in an adult prison system,
the effect is the whole opposite.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
A adult system is about crime and punishment. We can
absolutely affect the way that their brains are developing, which
gives them the opportunity to be rehabilitated. That's what the
goal of a juvenile system was supposed to be and
what it should always be.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
But if juvenile crime in the state is so out
of control that measures like this are needed to protect
the general population, then it makes sense.
Speaker 5 (13:36):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
The thing is, despite Republican lawmakers across the state pushing
for tough on crime sentencing and ongoing claims that juvenile
crime is higher than ever, data actually shows that As
of twenty twenty four, youth arrests have decreased by more
than half in the last decade.
Speaker 5 (13:59):
Educating the public is difficult, and we have several different
media that are constantly talking about the juvenile prime is increasing,
and it's the same story of the same kid that
committed the same crime. And so people who are listening
to news and hearing these things are hearing, oh my god,
(14:22):
all these kids are breaking in stuff. I think sometimes
our news media highlights juvenile crime much, much meta more
than they highlight adult crime. That's not really.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Accurate, Calloway says. In essence, what we're seeing is the
unexpected result of the Supreme Court decision that aim to
bring Tennessee laws regarding juvenile lifers to equal footing with
other states. It's a hard push by Republican lawmakers. The
(14:54):
opposite way.
Speaker 5 (14:56):
I think it's an effort to open the fleck who
has to go into the adult system.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
So, how do you deal with public safety with children
who commit crimes, especially serious crimes that hurt and alter
the lives of other people. How do you provide accountability
while still taking their humanity into account. It's a question
that judges, lawyers, activists and lawmakers have been scrambling over
(15:29):
for a long time, seemingly nowhere closer to a solution.
Speaker 9 (15:35):
It's not a simple, straightforward like here's the secret magic
bullet that cures at all. But when it comes to prevention,
it's a matter of just really showing a young child
that they are cared for, nurtured, and that there's a
community of support.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
That's Marcel Hernandez I.
Speaker 9 (15:49):
Am founder of Be About Change, and we are here
at the Boys and Girls Club in Columbia, Tennessee.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Hernandez currently works in development for programs that empower marginalized communities.
He also runs this program called Project Lead. He partners
with other nonprofits, community groups, and even school systems to
encourage at risk kids to participate.
Speaker 9 (16:11):
We know the strongest productor of negative justice outcomes involve
poverty and the inability to see available life choices. So
one thing that we really prefer to focus on is
how can we elevate the viewpoint of young people so
that we can then see farther, wider, broader in terms
of what life has to offer. Oftentimes it's just a
(16:32):
matter of either environmental factors or circumstances or past traumas
even and things that seemingly don't allow us to see
farther down the road. So we try to function as
a mirror so that young people can see their own strengths.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
On this warm, sunny April morning. I get to witness
it myself.
Speaker 8 (16:53):
So I'm going to give you also candie.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
You all can have as much of that as possible.
Speaker 8 (16:58):
However, the number of star wars that you are holding
in your hand is the number of things that you
have to tell the person who says, tell me about
your son.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
All right, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
You have four minutes, all right, simply walk around and
talk to each other. And I just want to hear
one question.
Speaker 8 (17:24):
I want you to ask the person to tell me
about yourself.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
All right, it's going to work. It's gonna work.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I look over at Marcel and he's smiling.
Speaker 9 (17:34):
They're leading to a personal pitch learning how to tell
others about ourselves. So just social skills communication.
Speaker 10 (17:43):
It's just so funny because they had the opportunity to
pull as many candies as they wanted. But now it's
a little bit of punishment if you got a little greedy.
So it's such a dual lesson right.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Columbia is a town with about fifteen thousand residents an
hour south west of Nashville. There really isn't much to
do in Columbia. On the drive there, I pass gorgeous
open pastures, farms, cows. It's a big football town, so
a lot of kids dream of making it by playing sports.
As I sit in on the activities of the day,
(18:18):
I learn more about them. There are ten kids here,
nine boys and one girl. They range in ages from
twelve to seventeen. The day started with a group workout. First,
they did push ups and burpies. Hernandez is a lifelong
believer that learning to be disciplined and fitness spreads to
(18:39):
other areas. The kids seem to enjoy it. Most of
the leaders in the room today are African American men
as young as college aged all the way to retirement.
They tell me that it's important that kids have male
figures in their lives to look up to, who understand
where they come from and what their lives are like.
Speaker 9 (18:58):
Oftentimes we find that we're trying to kind of undo
a lifetime of things that have kind of led up
to that, and so in a very real sense, it's
more of an intervention rather than a prevention.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
But at Project Lead, the name of the game is
here and now, not when it's too late.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So somebody tell me from your experience, how either easy
or how difficult was that? It was easy?
Speaker 4 (19:21):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
All you had to talk about was so all right?
So who got the I'm gonna be right over there
with who got the opportunity to talk to Elijah? All right?
Speaker 8 (19:33):
Somebody tell me what.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
They remember this tell me about yourself. Question is going
to be important for you to know and to know.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
How to answer it, because you will be asking job
interviews to tell me about yourself as you begin to
get into college and go.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Forward and move into workspaces.
Speaker 8 (19:49):
People want to know who you are.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
But what A few brave volunteers stand on a small
table and share their elevator pitch that they spent the
morning working on mentors, having teaching them how to confidently
introduce themselves, share what they have to offer, and ask
for what they want. They tell the young people in
the room that it'll help them when applying for college
and later for a good job. They will have college interviews,
(20:16):
they will get good jobs. They want them to envision it,
to see themselves doing it successfully.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Tell about yourself.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
Nice meet.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I'm a numberious school.
Speaker 5 (20:30):
I recently joined the track team and I'm currently headed
to the Sun Secret I'm interested in playing football this
year and I love to.
Speaker 8 (20:37):
Opportunities that you play sports at the next levels.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Uh, what do you be helping to?
Speaker 10 (20:42):
Scheduling stuff the next week?
Speaker 6 (20:44):
The same?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
The must be your time.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
One by one, more hands go up. In the end,
every kid has volunteered to go up and introduce themselves
their peers, and the mentors cheer them on. They tell
them how well they've done, how confident they sound. Even
when they're dismissed, the kids hang around. A few of
them help clean up, Others go to the court and
(21:12):
shoot a basketball. A couple others linger around chatting with
Hernandez and the group of men here today it's a Saturday,
a day off from school, but the kids are not
ready to go home.
Speaker 9 (21:24):
The biggest piece that we've seen when it comes to
success or shifting those trajectories is, of course, number one
is family engagement. Family involvement. Number two community involvement. So
young people seem to thrive when they are fully aware
that there's a community.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Of support at the end of the day, the mentors
who are volunteering from different programs and cities, most of
whom have just met today, gather around. They give thanks,
speaking strength on to one another, just as they did
the children.
Speaker 9 (21:54):
This confirmation that we get the right key people here
to make all this happen.
Speaker 6 (21:58):
So close to you.
Speaker 9 (22:00):
I really admire your work, and you're a man. You're
gonna you're gonna keep writing, right. I can see it.
I can I can see the day when Jack remembers
how you put your hand on his shoulder and told
him I've been where you're at.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
You didn't have somebody that I could say I looked
up to that was big.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
You feel.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
Appreciate.
Speaker 8 (22:25):
So I would encourage all of us to be praying
for the hearts of these kids and show up actually
their hearts. Be softly, be willing to listen to the
wisdom in this room.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
One of the local leaders speaks up.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
I just noticed you. I've been arm a whole lot.
Speaker 6 (22:40):
I just know how it works.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
They have to see it, and it has to say
exist because a lot of people do.
Speaker 8 (22:45):
This, but then you don't.
Speaker 5 (22:49):
You know, So that's really the key component to that
come said Okay, you know what, that's something I'm for
to or.
Speaker 6 (22:55):
It's just another thing.
Speaker 8 (22:57):
And getting the parents, I'm kids, get the parents, believe in.
Speaker 10 (23:02):
There because we're only un failure away of being just
like some people.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And maybe really that's the only way out of this,
showing up and showing care and commitment to the parents too,
and understanding that every adult was once a child, maybe
a child who was also failed by the system, and
treating children as children and working together as a community
(23:38):
to make sure their needs are met before it's too late.
After all, it does take a village.
Speaker 6 (23:59):
Our episode was produced by Julieta Martinelli and edited by
Andrea Lopez Cruzado. It was mixed by gabriel A Bayez.
Fact checking for this episode by Roxanna Aguire. The Latino
USA team also includes Julia Caruso, Jessica Ellis, Victor Ri Estrava,
Dominique Inestrosa, Renaldo Lenos Junior, Stephanie Lebau, Luis, Luna Marta Martinez,
(24:24):
Monica Morales, Garcia, JJ Carubin, Tasha Sandoval, Moor Saudi, and
Nancy Truchuillo. Fernanda Chavari is our managing editor. Benni Lee Ramirez,
Maria Garcia and I are co executive producers and I'm
your host, Maria Josa. Join us again on our next episode.
In the meantime, look for us on all of your
social media. I'll see you on Instagram. Asta approxima note
(24:47):
bayaz ciao.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Latino USA is made possible in part by Public Welfare Foundation,
catalyzing transformative approaches to justice that are community led, restorative,
and racially just. Skyline Foundation and this project was completed
with the support of a grant from Columbia University's IRA A.
(25:14):
Lippman Center for Journalism and Civil and Human Rights
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