June 13, 2024 • 12 mins
Michael Riedel and Christine Nagy chatted with award-winning Black female choreographer Camille A. Brown. Born and raised in New York, she is nominated for a 2024 Tony for Best Choreography for HELL'S KITCHEN. She talks about how she used her first-hand knowledge of New York's dance landscape in the 90s to help tell the story on stage. HELL'S KITCHEN is playing at the Shubert Theatre.
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(00:02):
iHeartRadio Broadway presents Inside Broadway, thepodcast about everything theater. It's where you
hear what happens from the ticket windowto the stage door, with the stars
and creative forces that make it allcome alive. Here are your hosts,
wo Rs Michael Riedle and Light FM'sChristine Nagy Ry and Michael. I'm very
(00:24):
excited for our guest today. Sheis nominated for a Tony. This is
her fourth Tony Award nomination and she'sup for choreography for Hell's Kitchen on Broadway.
Camille A. Brown, Camill,welcome, Thank you so much.
I'm very excited to chat with you. Toby. Oh you too, And
I want to mention that should youwin this Tony, you will be the
(00:47):
first black female choreographer to win aTony. You'd be making history. Yes,
yes, indeed, yes, incredible. Congratulations, Thank you so much,
Thank you. Yeah. Flies inyour stomach? Wow, I have
butterflies. Pizza. Oh. Ilove to hear that. So even dancers
(01:10):
and choreographers can have pizza. Yeah. Oh yeah. You know, before
I perform as a dancer, Ialways make sure I have bread. It's
just something that I do. Soyeah, yeah, we eat we eat,
all right. I do a fewdancers back in my day and they
smoked and drank scotch, that's whatthey did. Well. Oh wow,
So not your think, Camille.Yeah, I think, but you know,
(01:37):
it's a different era. So Camille, please tell us how you connected
with Alicia Keys and Hell's Kitchen everythingaround this. It's just been so exciting.
There's just great energy with it.Oh yes, thank you. So
I ran into Michael Gryce two yearsago and we had always wanted to work
(01:57):
with each other, and he saidthere was a project that he couldn't talk
to me about at the time,but it was coming up and he really
loved to talk with me about it. And it turned out to be Hell's
Kitchen, and he explained to me, of course Alicia Keys would be a
part of it. Christiaz, andmy mind was just blown and I was
so thrilled and excited to have theopportunity to work on the show. Now
(02:23):
did you begins as a dancer?Were you in the course of any Broadway
shows before you became a choreographer.I grew up. I went to concert
dance route. So yeah, there'sthe world and then there's the musical theater.
World and I went concert dance.So I actually danced in a company
for five seasons. It was calledEvidence and the artistic director was Ronald K.
(02:44):
Brown. So I've personally been inany theater productions, but my mom
introduced me to the theater when Iwas a very young child, and I've
always loved it. Always would watchyou know. I have my favorite musicals
from the time I was four andalways wanted to have a career in it.
(03:05):
And always behind the scenes when Iwatched the Course Line or Seven Brothers,
Seven Brothers Are and think about MollyBrown's dream Girls, whatever it was,
I was always thinking, like what'shappening behind the scenes, Like how
did they put this together? Iwas always interested in that. Yeah,
I was curious to know the momentwhen a dancer decides, you know what.
I really want to have a littlemore control and power, so I'd
like to become the choreographer. Doyou remember when that moment happened for you?
(03:30):
You know, it actually happened,you know. I always say sometimes
that I got here by way ofrejection, which led me to liberation.
So I had a lot of bodyissues when I was younger, you know,
earlier on in the conversation we weretalking about like what dancers eat and
(03:51):
a lot of times you know,and shout out to all of my amazing,
brilliant teachers who really cared for meand lifted me up. But I
had the other teachers that would lookat my body and say, well,
you're not the ideal body type.So it was actually I went into choreography
(04:12):
because and during college when I wantedto be a part of other things,
I was told, well, you'renot going to You're not going to fit
the costume. So I asked mymom, like, I don't know if
this I don't know if this schoolmay be the right place for me,
And she said, okay, wellwhy don't you finish this semester and in
the meantime try to find something thatyou can hold on to and feel and
(04:34):
get you through it. And Ididn't realize it then, but shout out
to my first composition improv teacher,Trish Casey, who really was asking us
to create from our own thoughts andour own ideas and emotions. And so
that was one of the starting placesfor me to become a choreographer and to
(04:58):
not wait for other people to placevalue on who I am or what the
ideal body is. The ideal bodyis what you name it to be.
Like, name yourself, don't waitfor other people to name you. Name
who you are. Yeah, Ithink what you're saying is incredibly important.
Do you feel like that attitude isstarting to change or do you still find
(05:19):
that that's prevalent in dance world.I think it's still there. I think
it's better. I think it's stillthere. But I think it's up to
us as individuals. If we don'tsee the space that we are looking for,
we have to also understand that there'san opportunity for us to make our
own spaces within that too. Andthankfully I did dance in a company Evidence
(05:44):
Dance Company that it had nothing todo with the ideal body. It had
to do with the intention and whatyou were bringing to it, the story.
What was your body telling through thebody. So that's what I continue
to do in my work, andthat's what I try to ring into a
space. You know, what isthe what is the what is the body?
What is the story the body istelling? Right? Well, my
(06:06):
body's all right, but not inperspective and not on the light. To
quote an old Stephen Sondheim lyric fromA Little Night Music. You know,
one of the one of the showsyou did which I really loved was Once
on This Island. It was afew years ago now, but it had
just wonderful, wonderful energy. ButI always think with choreographers, you do
(06:28):
the big numbers, the big musicalnumbers, but the ones that touch me
the most are the very quiet,contained, emotional ones. How do you
approach those? Uh? Well,I always approach something with a feeling.
How do I want to walk awaywith something? How do I want people
to walk away from it? Andsometimes the most expansive movement comes from the
(06:51):
smallest, most specific place, SoI try to target what is this neat
feeling at the time. Now,So with Timoon's dance, what is that
moment? What is that urge thatreally propelled her in that moment? And
Once on This Island to do thatdance? And how about for Hell's Kitchen.
(07:15):
There's there's moments that are that arequieter, that are moving in that
way, and then you also havebig dance numbers as well. Right,
Yeah. I look at choreography andstorytelling as scripts and lines like we have.
We are not as dancers necessarily speakingour lines, but we are moving
(07:39):
through our lines, and as actorshave moments where there are really expansive,
really intense moments it's really hot,and then there are some that are very
specific and quiet. That dance isvery much in alignment with that as well.
So I feel like throughout the throughoutthe show, I was working to
(08:00):
find the many layers and the manyhills and valleys for us to tell,
to share, and to move througha script of movement per se you know
if you will. And Hell's Kitchentaking place in New York City in the
nineties Alicia Key's music. How relatableis that for you? Well, I
(08:22):
am originally from New York City,born and raised, so and I grew
up in the nineties, and itis so great to have the opportunity to
put all that I know about NewYork City, what I observed. I
started taking the subway at thirteen whenI went to LaGuardia High School. Shout
(08:43):
out to La Guardia Fame School,and so it was so it was thrilling
to put all of those things andto use the social dances of that time,
not necessarily not just to set thetime as we are in the nineties,
but find ways to use the movementto push the story forward. I'm
(09:05):
always thinking of what are the waysthat we can use these social dances to
expand and push story. Yeah.Absolutely, well, I was saying they're
not social. I'm sorry, norI was just gonna say, always say
goo choreographers like a playwright, becauseyou are. When the and the actors
no longer can talk, they haveto show their emotions, their conflicts,
their hopes, their dreams in movement. Yeah, and in my case,
(09:28):
that's what I had to do.I was teased when I was younger for
my voice, you know. Imean, I have a small voice now,
but twenty years ago it was evenmore small, and it was even
smaller. And so I've always,I've always that's the way that I speak.
I speak through movement, and it'salways been the case. So when
(09:50):
I am doing something, it's notjust for movement's stake. It's to tell
a story, and it's to expressand to move and to shift and to
make people feel something. Well,we are so excited for you, Camille,
and of course wishing you all thebest. You've already had amazing success
with Hell's Kitchen, it's playing atthe Schubert Theater. We're rooting for you
for the Tony's And I'm just goingto jump ahead just one notch because I'm
(10:13):
hearing that you're going to be workingwith Audra McDonald in Gypsy, and that
sounds pretty exciting too. Yes,I'm so thrilled. George C. Wolf
is directing, and he is oneof the reasons why I got into musical
theater. So I am just absolutelythrilled so even more to look forward to.
No good luck with that. Yes, and thank you for the shout
(10:37):
out about possibly making history. Thatis something very exciting that truly, truly
is I'm hoping we see that momentwith you. Camille, Thank you so
so much. I love you.Tha care So, Michael, as I
just mentioned to Camille, I'm excitedto see Audra McDonald coming back to Broadway
in this time in Gypsy. Yeah, so this is going to this is
(11:00):
not till the fall. We havea couple of months for this one,
right right, Any word on thestreet on this. I think it was
rumored for a while that Auder wasgoing to tackle this role because it's sort
of considered the great female role inthe musical theater and Audre is of the
right age now to really do it. I was played, of course by
ethel Mermon originally, but Padila Poemdid it. I saw Tyane Daily do
(11:22):
it, Linda Lavin did it.So it's time, I think for Audre
to tackle it. You know,the question will be the woman is unbelievably
ruthless and brutal, vicious, MamaRose and one things of Oudre's always been
so sensitive and emotional, so we'regoing to have to see if she can
flash the steel, right, That'swhy we love her so much. She's
(11:43):
very vulnerable. Your heart is outthere. So yeah, I think everyone
rag time stuff like that. Youknow where she really played vulnerable, as
you say, emotional characters. Sowe'll see if she's got the ruthless showbiz
edge that I have. She yes, somebody's to hang out with you a
little bit, the coacher since shehas six Tony Awards, Audres, Yeah,
(12:03):
wow, she's incredible, So allright, looking forward to that and
of course checking out the Tony's thisweekend, Jackie outa Toni's. My prediction
is Hell's Kitchen is gonna win BestMusical and merrily we roll along we'll will
win Best Revival of a Musical andplay I think will be I don't know
what a play is going to be. Stereophonic, all right, did you
(12:24):
see stereophone? No? I thinkwe should though, Yeah, you know
Eric and I, Oh, right, of course, because you're married to
a yeah, a musician, grungymusicians exactly. That's right up your alley.
There you go, so we needto get in there, all right,
Michael, thank you. We'll seeyou next time. By
iHeartRadio Broadway presents Inside Broadway, thepodcast about everything theater. It's where you
hear what happens from the ticket windowto the stage door, with the stars
and creative forces that make it allcome alive. Here are your hosts,
wo Rs Michael Riedle and Light FM'sChristine Nagy Ry and Michael. I'm very
(00:24):
excited for our guest today. Sheis nominated for a Tony. This is
her fourth Tony Award nomination and she'sup for choreography for Hell's Kitchen on Broadway.
Camille A. Brown, Camill,welcome, Thank you so much.
I'm very excited to chat with you. Toby. Oh you too, And
I want to mention that should youwin this Tony, you will be the
(00:47):
first black female choreographer to win aTony. You'd be making history. Yes,
yes, indeed, yes, incredible. Congratulations, Thank you so much,
Thank you. Yeah. Flies inyour stomach? Wow, I have
butterflies. Pizza. Oh. Ilove to hear that. So even dancers
(01:10):
and choreographers can have pizza. Yeah. Oh yeah. You know, before
I perform as a dancer, Ialways make sure I have bread. It's
just something that I do. Soyeah, yeah, we eat we eat,
all right. I do a fewdancers back in my day and they
smoked and drank scotch, that's whatthey did. Well. Oh wow,
So not your think, Camille.Yeah, I think, but you know,
(01:37):
it's a different era. So Camille, please tell us how you connected
with Alicia Keys and Hell's Kitchen everythingaround this. It's just been so exciting.
There's just great energy with it.Oh yes, thank you. So
I ran into Michael Gryce two yearsago and we had always wanted to work
(01:57):
with each other, and he saidthere was a project that he couldn't talk
to me about at the time,but it was coming up and he really
loved to talk with me about it. And it turned out to be Hell's
Kitchen, and he explained to me, of course Alicia Keys would be a
part of it. Christiaz, andmy mind was just blown and I was
so thrilled and excited to have theopportunity to work on the show. Now
(02:23):
did you begins as a dancer?Were you in the course of any Broadway
shows before you became a choreographer.I grew up. I went to concert
dance route. So yeah, there'sthe world and then there's the musical theater.
World and I went concert dance.So I actually danced in a company
for five seasons. It was calledEvidence and the artistic director was Ronald K.
(02:44):
Brown. So I've personally been inany theater productions, but my mom
introduced me to the theater when Iwas a very young child, and I've
always loved it. Always would watchyou know. I have my favorite musicals
from the time I was four andalways wanted to have a career in it.
(03:05):
And always behind the scenes when Iwatched the Course Line or Seven Brothers,
Seven Brothers Are and think about MollyBrown's dream Girls, whatever it was,
I was always thinking, like what'shappening behind the scenes, Like how
did they put this together? Iwas always interested in that. Yeah,
I was curious to know the momentwhen a dancer decides, you know what.
I really want to have a littlemore control and power, so I'd
like to become the choreographer. Doyou remember when that moment happened for you?
(03:30):
You know, it actually happened,you know. I always say sometimes
that I got here by way ofrejection, which led me to liberation.
So I had a lot of bodyissues when I was younger, you know,
earlier on in the conversation we weretalking about like what dancers eat and
(03:51):
a lot of times you know,and shout out to all of my amazing,
brilliant teachers who really cared for meand lifted me up. But I
had the other teachers that would lookat my body and say, well,
you're not the ideal body type.So it was actually I went into choreography
(04:12):
because and during college when I wantedto be a part of other things,
I was told, well, you'renot going to You're not going to fit
the costume. So I asked mymom, like, I don't know if
this I don't know if this schoolmay be the right place for me,
And she said, okay, wellwhy don't you finish this semester and in
the meantime try to find something thatyou can hold on to and feel and
(04:34):
get you through it. And Ididn't realize it then, but shout out
to my first composition improv teacher,Trish Casey, who really was asking us
to create from our own thoughts andour own ideas and emotions. And so
that was one of the starting placesfor me to become a choreographer and to
(04:58):
not wait for other people to placevalue on who I am or what the
ideal body is. The ideal bodyis what you name it to be.
Like, name yourself, don't waitfor other people to name you. Name
who you are. Yeah, Ithink what you're saying is incredibly important.
Do you feel like that attitude isstarting to change or do you still find
(05:19):
that that's prevalent in dance world.I think it's still there. I think
it's better. I think it's stillthere. But I think it's up to
us as individuals. If we don'tsee the space that we are looking for,
we have to also understand that there'san opportunity for us to make our
own spaces within that too. Andthankfully I did dance in a company Evidence
(05:44):
Dance Company that it had nothing todo with the ideal body. It had
to do with the intention and whatyou were bringing to it, the story.
What was your body telling through thebody. So that's what I continue
to do in my work, andthat's what I try to ring into a
space. You know, what isthe what is the what is the body?
What is the story the body istelling? Right? Well, my
(06:06):
body's all right, but not inperspective and not on the light. To
quote an old Stephen Sondheim lyric fromA Little Night Music. You know,
one of the one of the showsyou did which I really loved was Once
on This Island. It was afew years ago now, but it had
just wonderful, wonderful energy. ButI always think with choreographers, you do
(06:28):
the big numbers, the big musicalnumbers, but the ones that touch me
the most are the very quiet,contained, emotional ones. How do you
approach those? Uh? Well,I always approach something with a feeling.
How do I want to walk awaywith something? How do I want people
to walk away from it? Andsometimes the most expansive movement comes from the
(06:51):
smallest, most specific place, SoI try to target what is this neat
feeling at the time. Now,So with Timoon's dance, what is that
moment? What is that urge thatreally propelled her in that moment? And
Once on This Island to do thatdance? And how about for Hell's Kitchen.
(07:15):
There's there's moments that are that arequieter, that are moving in that
way, and then you also havebig dance numbers as well. Right,
Yeah. I look at choreography andstorytelling as scripts and lines like we have.
We are not as dancers necessarily speakingour lines, but we are moving
(07:39):
through our lines, and as actorshave moments where there are really expansive,
really intense moments it's really hot,and then there are some that are very
specific and quiet. That dance isvery much in alignment with that as well.
So I feel like throughout the throughoutthe show, I was working to
(08:00):
find the many layers and the manyhills and valleys for us to tell,
to share, and to move througha script of movement per se you know
if you will. And Hell's Kitchentaking place in New York City in the
nineties Alicia Key's music. How relatableis that for you? Well, I
(08:22):
am originally from New York City,born and raised, so and I grew
up in the nineties, and itis so great to have the opportunity to
put all that I know about NewYork City, what I observed. I
started taking the subway at thirteen whenI went to LaGuardia High School. Shout
(08:43):
out to La Guardia Fame School,and so it was so it was thrilling
to put all of those things andto use the social dances of that time,
not necessarily not just to set thetime as we are in the nineties,
but find ways to use the movementto push the story forward. I'm
(09:05):
always thinking of what are the waysthat we can use these social dances to
expand and push story. Yeah.Absolutely, well, I was saying they're
not social. I'm sorry, norI was just gonna say, always say
goo choreographers like a playwright, becauseyou are. When the and the actors
no longer can talk, they haveto show their emotions, their conflicts,
their hopes, their dreams in movement. Yeah, and in my case,
(09:28):
that's what I had to do.I was teased when I was younger for
my voice, you know. Imean, I have a small voice now,
but twenty years ago it was evenmore small, and it was even
smaller. And so I've always,I've always that's the way that I speak.
I speak through movement, and it'salways been the case. So when
(09:50):
I am doing something, it's notjust for movement's stake. It's to tell
a story, and it's to expressand to move and to shift and to
make people feel something. Well,we are so excited for you, Camille,
and of course wishing you all thebest. You've already had amazing success
with Hell's Kitchen, it's playing atthe Schubert Theater. We're rooting for you
for the Tony's And I'm just goingto jump ahead just one notch because I'm
(10:13):
hearing that you're going to be workingwith Audra McDonald in Gypsy, and that
sounds pretty exciting too. Yes,I'm so thrilled. George C. Wolf
is directing, and he is oneof the reasons why I got into musical
theater. So I am just absolutelythrilled so even more to look forward to.
No good luck with that. Yes, and thank you for the shout
(10:37):
out about possibly making history. Thatis something very exciting that truly, truly
is I'm hoping we see that momentwith you. Camille, Thank you so
so much. I love you.Tha care So, Michael, as I
just mentioned to Camille, I'm excitedto see Audra McDonald coming back to Broadway
in this time in Gypsy. Yeah, so this is going to this is
(11:00):
not till the fall. We havea couple of months for this one,
right right, Any word on thestreet on this. I think it was
rumored for a while that Auder wasgoing to tackle this role because it's sort
of considered the great female role inthe musical theater and Audre is of the
right age now to really do it. I was played, of course by
ethel Mermon originally, but Padila Poemdid it. I saw Tyane Daily do
(11:22):
it, Linda Lavin did it.So it's time, I think for Audre
to tackle it. You know,the question will be the woman is unbelievably
ruthless and brutal, vicious, MamaRose and one things of Oudre's always been
so sensitive and emotional, so we'regoing to have to see if she can
flash the steel, right, That'swhy we love her so much. She's
(11:43):
very vulnerable. Your heart is outthere. So yeah, I think everyone
rag time stuff like that. Youknow where she really played vulnerable, as
you say, emotional characters. Sowe'll see if she's got the ruthless showbiz
edge that I have. She yes, somebody's to hang out with you a
little bit, the coacher since shehas six Tony Awards, Audres, Yeah,
(12:03):
wow, she's incredible, So allright, looking forward to that and
of course checking out the Tony's thisweekend, Jackie outa Toni's. My prediction
is Hell's Kitchen is gonna win BestMusical and merrily we roll along we'll will
win Best Revival of a Musical andplay I think will be I don't know
what a play is going to be. Stereophonic, all right, did you
(12:24):
see stereophone? No? I thinkwe should though, Yeah, you know
Eric and I, Oh, right, of course, because you're married to
a yeah, a musician, grungymusicians exactly. That's right up your alley.
There you go, so we needto get in there, all right,
Michael, thank you. We'll seeyou next time. By
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