Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Civil court, could be divorced. It could be child custody.
I mean that's family court. It could be you're having
a dispute with somebody who did home improvement. It could
be a dispute over something with a car. It could
be a car accident. There's a million civil suit like
personal injury, personal injury, exactly exactly? Is there any chance
(00:22):
this number is real? Have you have you ever had to.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Go to court in the nineties? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Did you have a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah? Right? Have you I have not? You've never been
to court?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Nope.
Speaker 5 (00:35):
Seriously, I wouldn't lie about it. You think I'm forgiving.
Say again, do you think I'm forgetting?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
No? I just I just assume everybody at some point
has had to go to court, No, for some kind
of trial.
Speaker 6 (00:48):
Not me.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I've had to go to court where I was just
a third party and still brought a lawyer with me.
Speaker 7 (00:57):
So you were just like testifying as a witness. Yeah,
but you had a lawyer.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Lawyer, Absolutely, it was a pretty serious case.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Was that advised or did you come up with that
on your own?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
A major murder case? But did you No?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
No, no, no, Because when I when I when I
told my lawyer, I have to go testify.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
He was like what.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I was like, Hey, I have to go testify and
do this thing. And all I'm all I'm doing is
authenticating something. And he was like, sweet, I'll see you there.
I was like, seriously, it's like, you're not walking into
a major murder case and without.
Speaker 7 (01:32):
Somebody an off chance you say something that that makes
you look at.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Absolutely so is that common that witnesses have personal attorneys
in the courtroom with them.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
That I don't know that I don't know, but my
lawyer was adamant, you are not walking in And maybe
just because it was of how severe the case.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Was, it also sounds like it wasn't a civil case.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
No, it definitely wasn't a civil case. It was one
hundred a criminal case. There's a horrible murder case.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Anyway. Is this number right?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
According to the National Center for State Courts, seventy five
percent of all lawsuits now involve at least one side
representing themselves.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
That sounds risky?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Is that there's no way that's true.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
It's expensive. Yeah, I know, but there is that, But
there is you said one side?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Did say both sides?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Correct? Correct? They said that the numbers because you're.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
You're ineligible for a public defender.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I don't know how that works either, either you are
ineligible for a public defender number one, number two.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
There's a lot of people who don't like public defenders.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
There's a lot of people who are I don't want
to say anti public defender, but are like, I'm not
using a public defender, Paul.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
And generally speaking, though, you can't have one for a
civil case.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Well, that's the other thing I was going to say.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, I think in a lot of cases you're not
entitled to one, correct. Yeah, And there may be some
civil cases where that that you are. However, most of
the time, or the overwhelming majority of time, when you
when you were offered a public offender defender, you are
the offender.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
It is for a criminal case.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Okay, yeah, I'm pretty sure, and someone certainly can call
it in correct with our experience, But in a civil case,
you have to provide your own representation.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Right, and that own representation is viscouys.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (03:32):
Oh no, this guy right here, he's cheap. I mean
it seems super risky. But they said, understand p doing it.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Numbers of people that are doing that just keeps skyrocketing
every year.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
Historically, though, do you have figures on what it was
maybe twenty thirty years ago?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh, way down, I want to say.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I want to say, for whatever reason, for whatever reason,
I saw something that said it like like at its peak,
at some.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Point it was like fifty.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
So half.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, until recently, and then you start reading the stories,
you get a lot of this.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Are you going to ask anything?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Because people think they get up there and they're just
going to present their case. So when somebody's up there,
so let's say I'm suing Diane, Right, Diane worked on
my house, and I'm going up there and I'm going
to get up there and I'm just going to say, well,
you came to my house and you didn't do this,
and you didn't do this, and you didn't do this.
And then you'll usually get this, You're not here to
(04:42):
tell a story.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
You were here to.
Speaker 8 (04:44):
Do so that.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
I just love this.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
They hate it.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
They hate it also, you know what it does takes
a lot of time.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yeah, a lot of people lose.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yes, Wait, hold on one second, Christian, will you do
me a favor. Will you see if you can find
me somebody who has represented themselves please eight six six
to Elliott eight six six two three five five four
six eight.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I don't care what the case is.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I just want someone who has represented themselves in a
courtroom eight six six to Elliott eight six six two
three five five four six eight.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I'm sorry you were gonna say something.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
So are people wrongfully expecting it to be like a
court TV show? Not Court TV, but a court show
on TV? Oh, like La Law where you do get
this sweet old reference law like Judge Judy.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, you do get to.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Tell a story.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Oh oh oh, I see.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Maybe maybe people do it on Judge Judy, but even
on Judge Judy, you're answering Judy's question.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Yeah right, but you're getting to tell a story and
it is quite different life.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
And they'll go, I would like to call the foreman up,
And then the foreman goes up there and they're like, hey,
didn't you show up and do that? And the judges like,
you know, you just ask him questions like that's how
this works.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
I just wonder if that gives people this sense of
so costs. I totally understand how expensive it is, but
there is a sense.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
No, it's more expensive losing.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
I've seen this on television. Yeah, but Judge Judy's not
real life, I know. But you also see people without lawyers.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Every one of them.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, they don't want lawyers because then you can't be
like redneck Jimmy.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Debbie.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Oh, redneck Debbie. Sorry love her? No, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
You think Judge Judy wants you to walk in with
representation A lot of times? You know who their representation.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Is, sir her?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I'm his brother? Right? And what can you add? Well?
He done told you to the crew. Thank you, Jimmy. Yes,
and that's normally your representation.
Speaker 7 (06:48):
Judge Judy, you'll say, don't pee on my leg and
tell me it's right now.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I got to tell you this. I would never, never,
in a million years, never could be the most innocent
person in the world.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Still, screw it up.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Never man.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
This judge has a lot less catchphrases.
Speaker 7 (07:10):
Where's the affable bailiff to show you the pictures that
I printed out?
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Fee? No, but I was judging those people. I was
judging those people.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
That's fair.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
That's fair.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Where am I going? Line four?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Hi?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Elliott the morning?
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Hey this man?
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah, Hi, who's this?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
What's up? Man? Mind's Eric Richmond.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, Hey, you represented yourself.
Speaker 9 (07:33):
In a hearing, so I'm actually in the process of it.
I took a dealer seventy five hundred dollars and after
we did the deal, and it's for our auto loan,
he tells me to lie to the bank and tell
them I put down eight thousand.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
I told him I won't.
Speaker 9 (07:49):
Doing that, so the bank ordered him to do a
buy back on the vehicle that was already registered in me.
So he bought it back. Now he's refusing to give
me my down payment and he's committed fraud. So I
filed through my courts and now I have to prove
a criminal act and I have to prove that he
(08:10):
didn't give me the money back.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Which I had my receipts for.
Speaker 9 (08:13):
And you're doing that on your own, yes, sir, because
he his financial guy, actually froze my bank account somehow
or another, so I can't touch any of my assets
or anything.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Have you had any pre trial hearings.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Not yet. It's coming up May first, on May second.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I want you to call me and let me know
how it goes.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yes, sir, we'll do no and listen.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I wish you the best of luck.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
If you were wrong, I wish you the best of luck.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Just make sure appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Watch YouTube or something.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Dude, make sure you're ready because you don't want you
don't want Judge Hatchett in there yelling at you and
put on put on nice clothes.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Don't go in with your ripped up jeans.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
I won't. I won't.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
All right, may second, I'm writing that down.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
You call me, yes, sir, thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Did you imagine you're going to go in and go
after the guy for fraud?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And you're like, and uh, sir Hank, who's your lawyer?
You're looking at.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Him, Judge, But you said it, and you're right. You
could object one of those big files objectively be in
the right one hundred out of one hundred times that
this case is tried. But I would worry that I
would mess it up. Yes you will.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I'm telling you.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
They will inavertently say something that'll screw the whole thing up.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Is there a point and the second the second that
their lawyer goes I object, you're frozen, okay, approach and
then you got to go up there and the judge
is going to talk to the lawyer.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
And your lawyer speaks yeah in some kind of.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Like, hey, don't you remember third year of law school
Guadalou against Hamolo and you're like ned heard him?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Well, no, you remember that because it's right. You thought
that was interesting.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
You were like, that's how funny that these two parties
are going after each other.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Guadalo at Hamlo, Hi Elliott the morning and this me, Yeah, Hi,
who's this?
Speaker 6 (10:18):
My name Scott. I've represented myself multiple times.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
How many court cases are you? A? Divorce?
Speaker 10 (10:24):
Divorce and custody? So I had a lawyer the first
time I went for my custody hearing, and basically the
lawyer took five grand of my money and then that
was that and my you know, the lawyer, I didn't
get anything out of it. So we went back for custody.
I fouled contempt against my ex wife.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
I won that case.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I think the hardest part.
Speaker 10 (10:47):
About it is actually putting this stuff into discovery prior
to going to court.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Oh that's that's that's true, yeah, because at the they
need time to go over it.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I'd be like, oh, hold on, I got it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
I got in my pockets on this piece of paper
I have hold on right other pocket. I'm wearing cargo shorts.
Speaker 10 (11:09):
Yeah, I mean the hardest, that's the hardest part. That
was the hardest part for me was just trying and
just figuring out how to do that. Going online and
figuring it all out yourself is is a nightmare.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Right.
Speaker 10 (11:21):
But the amount of money, the amount of money you
have to pay for a lawyer for in a custody
case situation, as a father in the state of Maryland,
you already kind of know the logistics of everything on this.
So where we go in here to fight, we're not
gonna win.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Right, sure, No, I get that.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
By the way, going back to going back to what
you said, thank you sir. They did say for a
lot of people it was like, like he said, bad
first experience where I paid all this money and I
don't feel like, yeah, for whatever the reason is, you
feel like and maybe you were right not to get anything.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
And I'm not saying that in his case.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I'm just saying, as an example, maybe you were right
not to get anything, but in your mind you got afft.
You lost five grand I may as well I could
do better myself. You know who knows this client the best,
the client, right, I know what my mindset was.
Speaker 7 (12:15):
I'm talking about like division of assets and custody.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, well, I'd like to enter this into the exhibit.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Hold on to second. It's in my wallet.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Yeah. The consequences in certain cases.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
They can tell you. At that point you can't enter it.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
I don't mean just in the moment, but when you're
talking about.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Judge, I have all these files of her with other men.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Oh I can't. I can't put that in. Okay, I'll
just put my hands behind my back.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Three weeks printing this crap out.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
That's really all I have.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Line three, Hi Elliott the morning.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
Elliott.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, Hi, who's that.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
What's up? Man? It's Ben. How you doing, buddy?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Did you represent yourself in a trial?
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (13:04):
I did.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
I was in trial for visitation custody. I have a
full custody and my twelve year old daughter just server
two years now, and I represented myself last July and
relitigated eight and a half hours and was in court
for ten by myself. When you represent yourself, it's called
per se. That's what they call us, Okay, perthday is
(13:31):
per se. So a half hours. She had an attorney,
which by the way, was paid for by my father.
Fifteen grands he put up for her. This is probably
my pumping time in court for custody, and I was
out of money. I had bought house a couple of
years ago in a stated community, beautiful house, eight and
a half hours man. And the thing is I was
(13:53):
started out in bubble right away from the judge. And
by the way, I objected during those a lawyer's opening.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Statement, I object, I object, that's not allowed right here,
that you know you have an idea?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Shut up?
Speaker 6 (14:08):
Yeah here, judges like, hey ben, he goes mister, you
know whatever, he goes up. If you can't object during
the opening state show. I mean I actually, I actually live,
and I actually subpoenaed my own witnesses to court.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
I sat there, probably drank beer for a week in
my shed and red and tried to figure out how
you could do it. You can do it yourself. You
can actually subpoena your own witnesses. You have to clerk's office.
And then I went to the sheriff department to have
them serve the witnesses to court that day, which was
my father and my movement in law. I hate two people,
(14:46):
I opined.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
So let me ask you this.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Let me ask you this, like when when, like during
those eight hours, were you were you questioning witnesses?
Speaker 6 (14:55):
Yes, oh yeah, yeah, my father, Oh yeah, absolutely, I even,
I even and I'm not I'm not joke. Seriously. At
one point I got a little bit cockey because I'm
nowhere near attorney. I'm an HTC guy, So their conditions, Man,
I'm on my way work right now anyway, So I
(15:15):
absolutely I would let her attorney call the witnesses up.
I did call my mother in law to the stands
and my ex wife, I crossed the name. I've burned
her up so bad. I had to figure out. Look,
I had to figure out how to ask the question
to where they told on themselves, because see there's a
(15:36):
thing called discovery. Sure, and if okay, there's discovery, I said, no,
I'm not doing that. It was like thirty eight questions
and then some of them had add under them. It
was it was my life story on paper too much
and anyway, didn't do it. So then they filed for
the judge to compel, a motion to compel to have
me make me do ye still didn't do it.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Didn't do it.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
So a coin very beginning of the trial, when it started,
and mind you, I'm there by myself. I had nobody
with me. Look, I am the lawyer, per se. Just me, okay,
I'm nervous a little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Of course. You got me. Hey, let me let me
ask you a couple of questions. Let me ask you
a couple of questions. Just move just move you on
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I love your story there when you were when you
were questioning the witnesses, did did did you get did
you get yelled at by the judge or did their
lawyers at any point object?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (16:30):
He objected every other word because I'm serious, because the discovery.
My punishment was this, he said, and they broke out
the book right there in court, the lawyer and the judge,
Circuit court that's above circuit court, a court of appeals,
and Supreme Court. That's it. This is high court. I
didn't do discovery. He said, you're going to pay four
(16:50):
thousand dollars towards her attorneys's whatever. You see that money
in hell?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (16:54):
And then also see there was me, buddy. And then
the other punishment was I was not allowed to testify
or speak on anything that had to do in that discovery.
That was the hardest thing I had to do. So
every time I went to speak, to say anything, objection, objection, objection.
I finally looked over at the attorney. This is like
(17:17):
an hour in I'm pissed. I look for and I
go to say something. He's like ready to object. And
I said listen, and I yelled at the beloiterer. I said,
I'm not an attorney, I said. I said, I'm doing
my best. I look at judgments of your honor. We
all know that I'm not an attorney. I'm doing my
(17:37):
very best. Exadray, I said, in to be quite honest,
no disrespect to you, judge, I said, I don't even
want to be here in your cool room today. I said,
because of two adult grown folks have to come here
to have you make a decision for our child because
we can't communicate. I took that hit. It's not we
with her, That's why I took it.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Though.
Speaker 6 (17:57):
You don't set a blame game the court. I have
so many stories, man, all right.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Last thing, last thing, last thing, last thing, last thing,
last thing.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
Joy?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Oh did you win?
Speaker 6 (18:10):
There's a joy? Oh?
Speaker 7 (18:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
He read the final order, which was for Miss Cosgrove
to have Soul continue to have soul, physical custody of
our daughter.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Did you jump up and down like you had just
gotten away on.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
A murder charge?
Speaker 6 (18:25):
I wanted to show bad. No. I sat there and
I was, actually, you know what. I'm not a real
religious person, but I do believe. I had this little
pendant I found two days before that fell out of
an envelope going through things of Virgin Mary. And I
carried that with me to court that day and had
it in my pocket. And I mean, it's just something
that I did. It made me feel better, and I
didn't accept that. I put my head in my arm
and I cried like the girl he read that and
(18:47):
the reason because, dude, how many fathers do you know?
I have fought for him nine years, and her mom
had her for the first six or so. Now I'm
in over two years. She's almost twelve years old. That's
a great age.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Student, that's great.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Good for you.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I objected, you cancer not turning open it, budge.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
I said, I asked, I'm when I finished question to
my father, I think that's something. Imagine questioning your father
on the stand, and I said, no further questions, your honor.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
I rest something.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Right now, all right, dude, Hey, I appreciate the phone call.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Thank you my friend. Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
If you're the ex wife, do you review bomb your attorney?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
One star? Absolutely? This guy sucks. Absolutely, Oh my god.
No further questions and I rest. Hi Elliot the morning.
This is me, Yes, Hi, who is this?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Hi?
Speaker 6 (19:55):
This is Rose.
Speaker 8 (19:56):
How are y'all?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
I am doing well? Rose? What can I do for you?
Speaker 6 (20:01):
So?
Speaker 8 (20:01):
I represented myself twice in my child support cases.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And child support wow, yep, mm hmm. How did you
do you have? How did you do?
Speaker 10 (20:12):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (20:12):
I won both my cases?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I object, I object, per se did you get into it? Uh?
Speaker 8 (20:20):
The not the first one, but the second one.
Speaker 6 (20:23):
The first one, his attorney didn't show up and.
Speaker 8 (20:25):
One of the representatives from the office didn't show up. Yeah,
it was an easy case. The second time I had
to bring him back in for content. That one we
kind of had a little bit. Now he had then
he finally got himself a lawyer, and we were kind
(20:47):
of going back and forth, and I kind of was
waiting for her to bring out one point, and when
she did, I I basically said I object, and they
kind of both looked at me, and I brought out
the situation, and the judge let he was like, yes,
she's right, it's right here in the files. I had
(21:08):
to show I had objective evidence to show the reason why.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I would be so afraid to I think I would.
I think, thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I think I I just think I'd be scared to
do it, yes, because I don't want to get admonished
by the kind of job.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Right, And even even if you're right, objecting is still confrontation,
and I don't like that.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
All I know is that my lawyer has said, I
don't one rule, Elliott. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I don't care if you're right or if you're wrong.
I don't care if your kids are right or wrong.
They do not walk into any courtroom or any hearing
with a judge without somebody representing them.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
He's like my and he was like my own kid.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And he I mean he's a lawyer, right, He's like
my own kid would walk into like it could be
something dumb. His kid's like like when he was in
elementary school and have nothing to do with it. But
if the teacher was like, did you wand that up
and throw it? He would go, uh yeah, yeah, yeah,
it was me He's like people crack, they get nervous.
It's like you will never you should never do that,
and they even say in here, but.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Listen, you know what it is.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And I've said this forever. We have the smartest listeners
in the world. Our listeners win. They talked to Arizona
State University Law School. They studied seventy thousand cases, everything
for disability, welfare benefits, special ed claims, family courts. By
(22:38):
having a lawyer, you increased your odds of a favorable
outcome by thirteenfold. Wow, it's through the roof because you
don't know what you're doing. God bless the age fact.
Now for real, you know what I mean? And again
I do believe we have the smartest listeners in the world.
They'll win every case. I would jack it up because
(23:00):
I would also get mad. I'd be like the HVAC
guy'd look over and go listen, I ain't a lawyer.
Well you just lost, mister Siegel, like I would do something.
I'd also get very angry, which you can't do no,
And I've had that conversation told to me, you sit
and you do nothing. Don't roll your eyes, don't hurrumph,
don't throw your headphones down like nothing.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Why do you have headphones in court?
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Because I want to be comfortable, your honor, I'll sell
his hearing is really bad, right.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Line one. Let me go real quick. Hi Ellie in
the morning, Hey me, Yeah, Hi, who's this?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
This is Joelle.
Speaker 11 (23:38):
I'm a police officer. I've been one for about fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Now, so you must see this all the time.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (23:45):
I'm actually the guy who called in a little while
ago about the burger king and the pronunciation.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Oh thank you, sir, thank you. Yeah, you're very smart,
another very smart listener.
Speaker 11 (23:56):
No, I mean many times when I was He's honest saying,
I've had defendants try to represent themselves and halfway through
my stipulation evident they would object and the judges kind
of look at him and say, well, what are you
objecting to? He said, well, I don't agree with that
what he's saying.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
That was it, he said, continue off through. So then,
I mean, and then, like you said, as soon as
you start using.
Speaker 11 (24:22):
Like lawyer turns and courtroom turns, they just get so confused,
and the justice looking at.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Them like you got no chance?
Speaker 6 (24:29):
I do like that.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
It didn't even cross my mind because the civil case.
Could just be an accident, and I want to have
the police officer there. I don't like how you're telling
the story. I object.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Well, no, I am allowed to tell you my side
of the story.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (24:43):
Now he was just objecting to how I was saying it.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I'm like, well, man, like
Speaker 9 (24:48):
You weren't driving drunk, bro,
Civil court, could be divorced. It could be child custody.
I mean that's family court. It could be you're having
a dispute with somebody who did home improvement. It could
be a dispute over something with a car. It could
be a car accident. There's a million civil suit like
personal injury, personal injury, exactly exactly? Is there any chance
(00:22):
this number is real? Have you have you ever had to.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Go to court in the nineties? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Did you have a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Yeah? Right? Have you I have not? You've never been
to court?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Nope.
Speaker 5 (00:35):
Seriously, I wouldn't lie about it. You think I'm forgiving.
Say again, do you think I'm forgetting?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
No? I just I just assume everybody at some point
has had to go to court, No, for some kind
of trial.
Speaker 6 (00:48):
Not me.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I've had to go to court where I was just
a third party and still brought a lawyer with me.
Speaker 7 (00:57):
So you were just like testifying as a witness. Yeah,
but you had a lawyer.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Lawyer, Absolutely, it was a pretty serious case.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Was that advised or did you come up with that
on your own?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
A major murder case? But did you No?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
No, no, no, Because when I when I when I
told my lawyer, I have to go testify.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
He was like what.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I was like, Hey, I have to go testify and
do this thing. And all I'm all I'm doing is
authenticating something. And he was like, sweet, I'll see you there.
I was like, seriously, it's like, you're not walking into
a major murder case and without.
Speaker 7 (01:32):
Somebody an off chance you say something that that makes
you look at.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Absolutely so is that common that witnesses have personal attorneys
in the courtroom with them.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
That I don't know that I don't know, but my
lawyer was adamant, you are not walking in And maybe
just because it was of how severe the case.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
Was, it also sounds like it wasn't a civil case.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
No, it definitely wasn't a civil case. It was one
hundred a criminal case. There's a horrible murder case.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Anyway. Is this number right?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
According to the National Center for State Courts, seventy five
percent of all lawsuits now involve at least one side
representing themselves.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
That sounds risky?
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Is that there's no way that's true.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
It's expensive. Yeah, I know, but there is that, But
there is you said one side?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Did say both sides?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Correct? Correct? They said that the numbers because you're.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
You're ineligible for a public defender.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I don't know how that works either, either you are
ineligible for a public defender number one, number two.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
There's a lot of people who don't like public defenders.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
There's a lot of people who are I don't want
to say anti public defender, but are like, I'm not
using a public defender, Paul.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
And generally speaking, though, you can't have one for a
civil case.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Well, that's the other thing I was going to say.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, I think in a lot of cases you're not
entitled to one, correct. Yeah, And there may be some
civil cases where that that you are. However, most of
the time, or the overwhelming majority of time, when you
when you were offered a public offender defender, you are
the offender.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
It is for a criminal case.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Okay, yeah, I'm pretty sure, and someone certainly can call
it in correct with our experience, But in a civil case,
you have to provide your own representation.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Right, and that own representation is viscouys.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (03:32):
Oh no, this guy right here, he's cheap. I mean
it seems super risky. But they said, understand p doing it.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Numbers of people that are doing that just keeps skyrocketing
every year.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
Historically, though, do you have figures on what it was
maybe twenty thirty years ago?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh, way down, I want to say.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I want to say, for whatever reason, for whatever reason,
I saw something that said it like like at its peak,
at some.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Point it was like fifty.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
So half.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, until recently, and then you start reading the stories,
you get a lot of this.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Are you going to ask anything?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Because people think they get up there and they're just
going to present their case. So when somebody's up there,
so let's say I'm suing Diane, Right, Diane worked on
my house, and I'm going up there and I'm going
to get up there and I'm just going to say, well,
you came to my house and you didn't do this,
and you didn't do this, and you didn't do this.
And then you'll usually get this, You're not here to
(04:42):
tell a story.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
You were here to.
Speaker 8 (04:44):
Do so that.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
I just love this.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
They hate it.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
They hate it also, you know what it does takes
a lot of time.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
Yeah, a lot of people lose.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yes, Wait, hold on one second, Christian, will you do
me a favor. Will you see if you can find
me somebody who has represented themselves please eight six six
to Elliott eight six six two three five five four
six eight.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I don't care what the case is.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I just want someone who has represented themselves in a
courtroom eight six six to Elliott eight six six two
three five five four six eight.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I'm sorry you were gonna say something.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
So are people wrongfully expecting it to be like a
court TV show? Not Court TV, but a court show
on TV? Oh, like La Law where you do get
this sweet old reference law like Judge Judy.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, you do get to.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Tell a story.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Oh oh oh, I see.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Maybe maybe people do it on Judge Judy, but even
on Judge Judy, you're answering Judy's question.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Yeah right, but you're getting to tell a story and
it is quite different life.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
And they'll go, I would like to call the foreman up,
And then the foreman goes up there and they're like, hey,
didn't you show up and do that? And the judges like,
you know, you just ask him questions like that's how
this works.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
I just wonder if that gives people this sense of
so costs. I totally understand how expensive it is, but
there is a sense.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
No, it's more expensive losing.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
I've seen this on television. Yeah, but Judge Judy's not
real life, I know. But you also see people without lawyers.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Every one of them.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, they don't want lawyers because then you can't be
like redneck Jimmy.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Debbie.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Oh, redneck Debbie. Sorry love her? No, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
You think Judge Judy wants you to walk in with
representation A lot of times? You know who their representation.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Is, sir her?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I'm his brother? Right? And what can you add? Well?
He done told you to the crew. Thank you, Jimmy. Yes,
and that's normally your representation.
Speaker 7 (06:48):
Judge Judy, you'll say, don't pee on my leg and
tell me it's right now.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I got to tell you this. I would never, never,
in a million years, never could be the most innocent
person in the world.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Still, screw it up.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Never man.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
This judge has a lot less catchphrases.
Speaker 7 (07:10):
Where's the affable bailiff to show you the pictures that
I printed out?
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Fee? No, but I was judging those people. I was
judging those people.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
That's fair.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
That's fair.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Where am I going? Line four?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Hi?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Elliott the morning?
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Hey this man?
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah, Hi, who's this?
Speaker 4 (07:29):
What's up? Man? Mind's Eric Richmond.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, Hey, you represented yourself.
Speaker 9 (07:33):
In a hearing, so I'm actually in the process of it.
I took a dealer seventy five hundred dollars and after
we did the deal, and it's for our auto loan,
he tells me to lie to the bank and tell
them I put down eight thousand.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
I told him I won't.
Speaker 9 (07:49):
Doing that, so the bank ordered him to do a
buy back on the vehicle that was already registered in me.
So he bought it back. Now he's refusing to give
me my down payment and he's committed fraud. So I
filed through my courts and now I have to prove
a criminal act and I have to prove that he
(08:10):
didn't give me the money back.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Which I had my receipts for.
Speaker 9 (08:13):
And you're doing that on your own, yes, sir, because
he his financial guy, actually froze my bank account somehow
or another, so I can't touch any of my assets
or anything.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Have you had any pre trial hearings.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Not yet. It's coming up May first, on May second.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I want you to call me and let me know
how it goes.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Yes, sir, we'll do no and listen.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I wish you the best of luck.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
If you were wrong, I wish you the best of luck.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Just make sure appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Watch YouTube or something.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Dude, make sure you're ready because you don't want you
don't want Judge Hatchett in there yelling at you and
put on put on nice clothes.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Don't go in with your ripped up jeans.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
I won't. I won't.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
All right, may second, I'm writing that down.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
You call me, yes, sir, thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Did you imagine you're going to go in and go
after the guy for fraud?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And you're like, and uh, sir Hank, who's your lawyer?
You're looking at.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
Him, Judge, But you said it, and you're right. You
could object one of those big files objectively be in
the right one hundred out of one hundred times that
this case is tried. But I would worry that I
would mess it up. Yes you will.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I'm telling you.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
They will inavertently say something that'll screw the whole thing up.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Is there a point and the second the second that
their lawyer goes I object, you're frozen, okay, approach and
then you got to go up there and the judge
is going to talk to the lawyer.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
And your lawyer speaks yeah in some kind of.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Like, hey, don't you remember third year of law school
Guadalou against Hamolo and you're like ned heard him?
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Well, no, you remember that because it's right. You thought
that was interesting.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
You were like, that's how funny that these two parties
are going after each other.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Guadalo at Hamlo, Hi Elliott the morning and this me, Yeah, Hi,
who's this?
Speaker 6 (10:18):
My name Scott. I've represented myself multiple times.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
How many court cases are you? A? Divorce?
Speaker 10 (10:24):
Divorce and custody? So I had a lawyer the first
time I went for my custody hearing, and basically the
lawyer took five grand of my money and then that
was that and my you know, the lawyer, I didn't
get anything out of it. So we went back for custody.
I fouled contempt against my ex wife.
Speaker 6 (10:44):
I won that case.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
I think the hardest part.
Speaker 10 (10:47):
About it is actually putting this stuff into discovery prior
to going to court.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Oh that's that's that's true, yeah, because at the they
need time to go over it.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
I'd be like, oh, hold on, I got it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
I got in my pockets on this piece of paper
I have hold on right other pocket. I'm wearing cargo shorts.
Speaker 10 (11:09):
Yeah, I mean the hardest, that's the hardest part. That
was the hardest part for me was just trying and
just figuring out how to do that. Going online and
figuring it all out yourself is is a nightmare.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Right.
Speaker 10 (11:21):
But the amount of money, the amount of money you
have to pay for a lawyer for in a custody
case situation, as a father in the state of Maryland,
you already kind of know the logistics of everything on this.
So where we go in here to fight, we're not
gonna win.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Right, sure, No, I get that.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
By the way, going back to going back to what
you said, thank you sir. They did say for a
lot of people it was like, like he said, bad
first experience where I paid all this money and I
don't feel like, yeah, for whatever the reason is, you
feel like and maybe you were right not to get anything.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
And I'm not saying that in his case.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I'm just saying, as an example, maybe you were right
not to get anything, but in your mind you got afft.
You lost five grand I may as well I could
do better myself. You know who knows this client the best,
the client, right, I know what my mindset was.
Speaker 7 (12:15):
I'm talking about like division of assets and custody.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, well, I'd like to enter this into the exhibit.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Hold on to second. It's in my wallet.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Yeah. The consequences in certain cases.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
They can tell you. At that point you can't enter it.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
I don't mean just in the moment, but when you're
talking about.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Judge, I have all these files of her with other men.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Oh I can't. I can't put that in. Okay, I'll
just put my hands behind my back.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Three weeks printing this crap out.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
That's really all I have.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Line three, Hi Elliott the morning.
Speaker 6 (12:57):
Elliott.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, Hi, who's that.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
What's up? Man? It's Ben. How you doing, buddy?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Did you represent yourself in a trial?
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (13:04):
I did.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
I was in trial for visitation custody. I have a
full custody and my twelve year old daughter just server
two years now, and I represented myself last July and
relitigated eight and a half hours and was in court
for ten by myself. When you represent yourself, it's called
per se. That's what they call us, Okay, perthday is
(13:31):
per se. So a half hours. She had an attorney,
which by the way, was paid for by my father.
Fifteen grands he put up for her. This is probably
my pumping time in court for custody, and I was
out of money. I had bought house a couple of
years ago in a stated community, beautiful house, eight and
a half hours man. And the thing is I was
(13:53):
started out in bubble right away from the judge. And
by the way, I objected during those a lawyer's opening.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Statement, I object, I object, that's not allowed right here,
that you know you have an idea?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Shut up?
Speaker 6 (14:08):
Yeah here, judges like, hey ben, he goes mister, you
know whatever, he goes up. If you can't object during
the opening state show. I mean I actually, I actually live,
and I actually subpoenaed my own witnesses to court.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (14:25):
I sat there, probably drank beer for a week in
my shed and red and tried to figure out how
you could do it. You can do it yourself. You
can actually subpoena your own witnesses. You have to clerk's office.
And then I went to the sheriff department to have
them serve the witnesses to court that day, which was
my father and my movement in law. I hate two people,
(14:46):
I opined.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
So let me ask you this.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Let me ask you this, like when when, like during
those eight hours, were you were you questioning witnesses?
Speaker 6 (14:55):
Yes, oh yeah, yeah, my father, Oh yeah, absolutely, I even,
I even and I'm not I'm not joke. Seriously. At
one point I got a little bit cockey because I'm
nowhere near attorney. I'm an HTC guy, So their conditions, Man,
I'm on my way work right now anyway, So I
(15:15):
absolutely I would let her attorney call the witnesses up.
I did call my mother in law to the stands
and my ex wife, I crossed the name. I've burned
her up so bad. I had to figure out. Look,
I had to figure out how to ask the question
to where they told on themselves, because see there's a
(15:36):
thing called discovery. Sure, and if okay, there's discovery, I said, no,
I'm not doing that. It was like thirty eight questions
and then some of them had add under them. It
was it was my life story on paper too much
and anyway, didn't do it. So then they filed for
the judge to compel, a motion to compel to have
me make me do ye still didn't do it.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Didn't do it.
Speaker 6 (16:00):
So a coin very beginning of the trial, when it started,
and mind you, I'm there by myself. I had nobody
with me. Look, I am the lawyer, per se. Just me, okay,
I'm nervous a little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Of course. You got me. Hey, let me let me
ask you a couple of questions. Let me ask you
a couple of questions. Just move just move you on
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I love your story there when you were when you
were questioning the witnesses, did did did you get did
you get yelled at by the judge or did their
lawyers at any point object?
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (16:30):
He objected every other word because I'm serious, because the discovery.
My punishment was this, he said, and they broke out
the book right there in court, the lawyer and the judge,
Circuit court that's above circuit court, a court of appeals,
and Supreme Court. That's it. This is high court. I
didn't do discovery. He said, you're going to pay four
(16:50):
thousand dollars towards her attorneys's whatever. You see that money
in hell?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (16:54):
And then also see there was me, buddy. And then
the other punishment was I was not allowed to testify
or speak on anything that had to do in that discovery.
That was the hardest thing I had to do. So
every time I went to speak, to say anything, objection, objection, objection.
I finally looked over at the attorney. This is like
(17:17):
an hour in I'm pissed. I look for and I
go to say something. He's like ready to object. And
I said listen, and I yelled at the beloiterer. I said,
I'm not an attorney, I said. I said, I'm doing
my best. I look at judgments of your honor. We
all know that I'm not an attorney. I'm doing my
(17:37):
very best. Exadray, I said, in to be quite honest,
no disrespect to you, judge, I said, I don't even
want to be here in your cool room today. I said,
because of two adult grown folks have to come here
to have you make a decision for our child because
we can't communicate. I took that hit. It's not we
with her, That's why I took it.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Though.
Speaker 6 (17:57):
You don't set a blame game the court. I have
so many stories, man, all right.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Last thing, last thing, last thing, last thing, last thing,
last thing.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
Joy?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Oh did you win?
Speaker 6 (18:10):
There's a joy? Oh?
Speaker 7 (18:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
He read the final order, which was for Miss Cosgrove
to have Soul continue to have soul, physical custody of
our daughter.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Did you jump up and down like you had just
gotten away on.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
A murder charge?
Speaker 6 (18:25):
I wanted to show bad. No. I sat there and
I was, actually, you know what. I'm not a real
religious person, but I do believe. I had this little
pendant I found two days before that fell out of
an envelope going through things of Virgin Mary. And I
carried that with me to court that day and had
it in my pocket. And I mean, it's just something
that I did. It made me feel better, and I
didn't accept that. I put my head in my arm
and I cried like the girl he read that and
(18:47):
the reason because, dude, how many fathers do you know?
I have fought for him nine years, and her mom
had her for the first six or so. Now I'm
in over two years. She's almost twelve years old. That's
a great age.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Student, that's great.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Good for you.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I objected, you cancer not turning open it, budge.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
I said, I asked, I'm when I finished question to
my father, I think that's something. Imagine questioning your father
on the stand, and I said, no further questions, your honor.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
I rest something.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Right now, all right, dude, Hey, I appreciate the phone call.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Thank you my friend. Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
If you're the ex wife, do you review bomb your attorney?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
One star? Absolutely? This guy sucks. Absolutely, Oh my god.
No further questions and I rest. Hi Elliot the morning.
This is me, Yes, Hi, who is this?
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Hi?
Speaker 6 (19:55):
This is Rose.
Speaker 8 (19:56):
How are y'all?
Speaker 3 (19:57):
I am doing well? Rose? What can I do for you?
Speaker 6 (20:01):
So?
Speaker 8 (20:01):
I represented myself twice in my child support cases.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And child support wow, yep, mm hmm. How did you
do you have? How did you do?
Speaker 10 (20:12):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (20:12):
I won both my cases?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I object, I object, per se did you get into it? Uh?
Speaker 8 (20:20):
The not the first one, but the second one.
Speaker 6 (20:23):
The first one, his attorney didn't show up and.
Speaker 8 (20:25):
One of the representatives from the office didn't show up. Yeah,
it was an easy case. The second time I had
to bring him back in for content. That one we
kind of had a little bit. Now he had then
he finally got himself a lawyer, and we were kind
(20:47):
of going back and forth, and I kind of was
waiting for her to bring out one point, and when
she did, I I basically said I object, and they
kind of both looked at me, and I brought out
the situation, and the judge let he was like, yes,
she's right, it's right here in the files. I had
(21:08):
to show I had objective evidence to show the reason why.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I would be so afraid to I think I would.
I think, thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I think I I just think I'd be scared to
do it, yes, because I don't want to get admonished
by the kind of job.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Right, And even even if you're right, objecting is still confrontation,
and I don't like that.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
All I know is that my lawyer has said, I
don't one rule, Elliott. I don't care.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
I don't care if you're right or if you're wrong.
I don't care if your kids are right or wrong.
They do not walk into any courtroom or any hearing
with a judge without somebody representing them.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
He's like my and he was like my own kid.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And he I mean he's a lawyer, right, He's like
my own kid would walk into like it could be
something dumb. His kid's like like when he was in
elementary school and have nothing to do with it. But
if the teacher was like, did you wand that up
and throw it? He would go, uh yeah, yeah, yeah,
it was me He's like people crack, they get nervous.
It's like you will never you should never do that,
and they even say in here, but.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Listen, you know what it is.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And I've said this forever. We have the smartest listeners
in the world. Our listeners win. They talked to Arizona
State University Law School. They studied seventy thousand cases, everything
for disability, welfare benefits, special ed claims, family courts. By
(22:38):
having a lawyer, you increased your odds of a favorable
outcome by thirteenfold. Wow, it's through the roof because you
don't know what you're doing. God bless the age fact.
Now for real, you know what I mean? And again
I do believe we have the smartest listeners in the world.
They'll win every case. I would jack it up because
(23:00):
I would also get mad. I'd be like the HVAC
guy'd look over and go listen, I ain't a lawyer.
Well you just lost, mister Siegel, like I would do something.
I'd also get very angry, which you can't do no,
And I've had that conversation told to me, you sit
and you do nothing. Don't roll your eyes, don't hurrumph,
don't throw your headphones down like nothing.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Why do you have headphones in court?
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Because I want to be comfortable, your honor, I'll sell
his hearing is really bad, right.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Line one. Let me go real quick. Hi Ellie in
the morning, Hey me, Yeah, Hi, who's this?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
This is Joelle.
Speaker 11 (23:38):
I'm a police officer. I've been one for about fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Now, so you must see this all the time.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (23:45):
I'm actually the guy who called in a little while
ago about the burger king and the pronunciation.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Oh thank you, sir, thank you. Yeah, you're very smart,
another very smart listener.
Speaker 11 (23:56):
No, I mean many times when I was He's honest saying,
I've had defendants try to represent themselves and halfway through
my stipulation evident they would object and the judges kind
of look at him and say, well, what are you
objecting to? He said, well, I don't agree with that
what he's saying.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
That was it, he said, continue off through. So then,
I mean, and then, like you said, as soon as
you start using.
Speaker 11 (24:22):
Like lawyer turns and courtroom turns, they just get so confused,
and the justice looking at.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Them like you got no chance?
Speaker 6 (24:29):
I do like that.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
It didn't even cross my mind because the civil case.
Could just be an accident, and I want to have
the police officer there. I don't like how you're telling
the story. I object.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Well, no, I am allowed to tell you my side
of the story.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (24:43):
Now he was just objecting to how I was saying it.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I'm like, well, man, like
Speaker 9 (24:48):
You weren't driving drunk, bro,
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