The Breakfast Club Sits Down With Alencia Johnson To Discuss 'Flip the Tables,' Political Disruption, Reciprocity, Quitting Therapy. Listen For More!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The Breakfast Club Morning everybody. It's theej envyes hilarious, Charlamagne
the God. We are the Breakfast Club. Law La Ross
here as well. And we got a special guest in
the building. Yes, indeed, her new book, Flip the Tables,
is out right now we have Alynsia Johnson.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome, Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
How you feeling.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I feel good.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Interesting to say that in the midst of everything going on,
but I feel good.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Taking care of myself and getting this message out.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
We find enjoy what we can right right, we have
to you got to the Way to survivor.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Absolutely. I love the title of.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Your book because I think that, you know, people don't
ever expound on that part of Jesus enough.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
You know what I mean, Crunk Jesus.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Yes, flip the tables that everyday disrupt this guide to
finding courage and making change break that title death.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah, you know, I'm glad you mentioned that reference. I'm
a pastor's daughter. I love that story of Jesus. And
in all of my work, I've worked on a lot
of presidential campaigns, I've worked for a Planned Parenthood, people
constantly ask me, Oh, my goodness, how can I make change?
They think it has to be at this massive scale.
But what I realized is that when we find the
courage to really be ourselves and to live in our
(01:08):
truth and to speak up in rooms and do these
small acts of disruption every single day, it doesn't actually
require folks to quit their jobs and run for office.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So I don't think a lot of people should do that.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It doesn't require us to be like doctor King or
you know, having these massive platforms which are really important.
But there are things that folks can do every single day.
And I found that getting connected to your individual purpose
and having the courage to be who you are is
directly connected to being an everyday disruptor that propels our
communities forward. And I think it's kind of divine that
(01:39):
it's such a time as this that it came out
when I started writing this book five years ago, and
who knew that it would come out three months after
a few months after Donald Trump was elected again.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
You worked on the VP's campaign, right, and did you
work with You worked with?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, I worked on I worked by Obama's campaign, j
and Biden's campaign was with Born's campaign and Vice President
Harris Cane.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
What bothers me is, I know people like you exist
in people like you work for these individuals. Why aren't
they disruptive enough? Why don't they flip tables? Why do
they keep Why do they don't?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Why don't why.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Don't they have the courage to disrupt the status?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Quote you all all of them?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Well, you know it's interesting because I don't. I don't
want to say I look at well, I don't think
I look at all of them.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
In essence the same.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
In democratic politics and politics in general, elected officials, I
think tend to follow a certain path, right, and sometimes
it seems as though making sure that the status quo remains.
I do think if we step back a little bit,
Barack Obama was a bit of a.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Disruptor because of him, because there's.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Identity, his identity, but and because he you know, folks
told him he shouldn't have ran, and he.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And he did.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Right now, there's a whole system at play that folks.
You know, when you become the president of the United
States or nominee for the President of the United States,
you know you uphold this party platform. But the reality is,
I don't look at them to disrupt what our country
needs politically, I actually look at us as the people
in the ground swell, which is why it's just as important. Yes,
(03:14):
I work for a lot of presidential campaigns, but it's
just as important to work for these local races, to
work for these primary races, to work for these governors races,
all these people who are actually trying to challenge the
system and get more reflective folks in position to actually
push forward the policies who care about, like universal health
care and you know, racial justice and access to abortion
(03:36):
and all those things. And so, you know, it takes
a lot of courage to shake the table, and it
takes a lot of courage to concede that if you're
going to shake the table, you actually might lose in
the short term, but you're going to create a path
for other people to you know, push forward that change,
and it will be a little bit easier because you
were there and you started something.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
How did you get into politics? What got you into
politics in that part of the game, I think it.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Was always in me. I talk about my late grandmother
in the book often.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I actually dedicate the book to.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Her, Miss Ozella Bennett, and she was one of those
people who, much like a lot of our ancestors, their
names aren't in history books, but they were foot soldiers.
My grandmother was in the church. I'm the daughter pastor,
so I grew up in the Black Church, and there's
a lot of politics there right, a lot of social
justice there, and just this understanding that were much as given,
much as required, that my gifts are not my own,
(04:27):
and that they are actually on loan, and that I
actually have to get those out and help.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
The world around me.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
And my grandmother, no matter how much she had or
what she didn't have, she always felt like she had
to stand in the gap. And voting for me is
just all I mean. I would go to with my
parents who the voting blue that had that little sticker,
But that was just like one part of it. I
had to be an active participant in the world that
I wanted to create, and so for me, it was
just kind of natural that it would be a part
(04:54):
of my life. Now I got to my position I
talk about in the book. I didn't know anybody in
democratic politics when I moved to DC.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I was working a corporate job. I just had a dream.
I was like, Oh, this black man is president.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I think I kind of want to work for his
reelection campaign and figured out how to network with folks
and ended up taking a job that I wasn't even
qualified for, but they took a chance on me, and
I figured it out from there. And I can't just
sit on the sidelines and critique something and not be
a part of it. And I also understand how engaging.
If so many more of us engaged in the process,
(05:28):
the outcomes will look different, our communities will look different.
But for whatever reason, there are so many barriers for
us to engage. And that's another reason why I wanted
to be part of this, because I felt like, well,
if I can do this and people can identify with me,
maybe it won't feel as hard right for me to
engage in politics. Maybe, you know, I won't feel a
shame that I don't know every single term that they're
(05:49):
using or every single way that the policy is developed.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Sometimes when I have to go and see it MSNBC
and talk about something, I got a research what I'm
talking about. Because government class was in high school. I'm
thirty seven years I don't remember everything, and so if
I can't remember all these things right, if I have
to continue to inform myself, imagine all the other people
who are just scared to participate because they don't know.
It's not that they don't want to. And so I
know that I have to be a representative of that.
(06:14):
But I also again this calling where much as given,
much as required, and I'm required to make my communities better.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
I think right now with politics and like how we're
seeing people get messages out through like TikTok and stuff
like that, things are changing. And I saw an interview
that you did where you talked about you weren't the
most qualified, but you were the most recommended when it
came to working for the Obamas. And then I saw
another interview where you talked about your red Flag is
You chapter in your book, brol And putting both of
those together, I think that there's like a renaissance of
(06:42):
like new political leaders, but they're afraid that they don't
know enough for it, that they can't challenge the Trumps
of the world, you know what I mean? So how
do you speak to those leaders that are coming up
in this book? Because they're there, they just need to
figure out how to do what you did.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
No, they literally are there, which is why I start
the book with the disruption of self. Right, we actually
have to look in the mirror, and that's the hardest
thing to do.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
One thing that I've realized in.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Working in advocacy spaces and political space.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I might controult for saying this.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
But we're telling the world to treat us well and
to vote for us, to enact these policies that see
us as worthy for humanity and all of these things
and fighting for justice, and yet we're not treating each
other well right, And a lot of that is because
we are not healthy. We're not dealing with the things
that are holding us back from being who we are.
We're not dealing with this trauma, and we're doing this
(07:30):
interpersonal harm that is actually not allowing us to do
the work that needs to be done for communities. And
so I put that chapter the red Flag as You
and the Disruption of Self section of the book because
so many times we are like we are the ones
that are getting in our own way of our own destiny,
whether it is that professional pursuit, whether it's that personal pursuit.
(07:53):
I write, I tell a lot of business in my book,
and a lot of a lot of this was inspired
by a lot of relationships that were going the wrong way,
and I was like dating the same person, but none
of them know each other. Like, what's happening here. I'm
holding myself back from career opportunities. I'm holding myself back.
But yet I knew I had this big vision. And
so if we remove those barriers within our own selves
(08:15):
that are holding ourselves back, we would be so surprised
the change that we could have in the world around us. Right,
we would be so surprised at the doors that would
not just open, but the spaces that we create that
somebody else was waiting for us to create. So many
times people just sit on the sidelines to critique, but
they don't have the courage to actually try and put
themselves out there. And that's why, you know, the only
(08:38):
things stopping us. Sometimes, yes, there's the system, right, like,
there's all of that, and yet at the same time,
sometimes it's us getting in our own way.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think it's us majority of the time, it is.
I really feel that way.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
I feel like, you know, yes, we do know the
systems are there, but even just having that mentality right like, oh,
the system's going to stop me. The system's going to
stop me. You're already telling.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yourself no, that's right, where you're already limiting yourself, right,
and multiple things can be true at the same time.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I say it all the time.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I have a friend who eights that I say that,
but I'm like, yes, the system's there, but like it's you,
you sitting over here. And I talk about this as well.
I talk about mental health health in the book. I
was diagnosed with OCD when I was fifteen, so I've
been in and out of therapy my whole life, and
at one point, actually in the process of writing this book,
which was really hard, i quit therapy because I was like,
I'm sitting here having the same conversation every Monday at
(09:25):
five pm, and I'm not doing the work because I'm
scared of facing myself. I'm not having that difficult conversation.
I'm sitting here theorizing it. Wie Brown just said that literally.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
I mean that's something she's always told me, but literally,
she was just sitting there and said the exact same thing.
People are go to therapy for years for years, be
afraid to actually do the hard work on themselves.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, and it's like, how do we as a society
get to a place that we are scared to sit
with ourselves. Part of how I got to this book
was a very successful career. I'm extremely blessed. I'm sitting
in this beautiful corner apartment. I got all the things
I bought, all the things I can travel, going on
all these places. I was sitting there and I was
crying because I was not happy. And I looked in
(10:05):
the mirror and I was like, what are you covering up?
And what are you running from? And what really hit
me was when I realized you're running from yourself, and like,
how sad is that that we run from ourselves? Like
we are something to be fearful of. And so I
had to change the relationship with myself. I had to
change the relationship with what success looked like, with what
(10:26):
relationships look like, and that you know, tension and confrontation
and disagreement and relationship doesn't mean the end of a relationship, right.
And that shifted my friendships, it shifted my professional relationships,
and it got me to this bold place of you
know what, I know what my purpose is. I know
that this is a means to an end, and if
this doesn't go, my way at least I've tried. Didn't
(10:48):
you like that? You saw? Like?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
What were you running from?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Particularly and myself, one of the things is how hard
I am on myself. I'm a virgo in four houses
and clearly high achieving person, and I was just so
hard on birthday September third, very close to be on birthday,
did okay?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So you feel me?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And I got to a place where I was judging
myself so hard, judging myself for I don't even want
to say mistakes but learning opportunities, judging myself for outcomes
that did or did not happen. And I had someone
say to me. They said, if people around you that
you love heard how hard you are on yourself, how
(11:33):
are they going to feel you're going to be with them?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I was like, oh.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Wow, and like to to really kind of beat myself
down with you should have done this right, You could
have done X, Y and Z. Now I'm working to
take should out of my vocabulary and embracing things as
you know, a learning opportunity.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
And I also as a person.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Of deep faith, I talk about grace, and we talk
about God's grace, and we talk about giving other people grace.
But I had to learn to give myself that that
grace as well, and like let go of that pressure
to feel or strive for perfection, because what really is perfection?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Right?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
And what is actually the goal? Because there is like
the goalpost will move every single time, and how do
you just become content with just being? I also realize
that I didn't again in therapy, knowing all the language,
I didn't like to sit with my feelings. Oh no,
I'm angry. I don't want to sit with that uncomfortable feeling.
I'm going to go move on to something else. And
then something that black women tend to do is instead
(12:29):
of sitting with our feelings or whatever it may be,
we go get another degree, we go get another professional pursuit.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
We was just talking with that in my group, probably
like a week ago, about how like now, at this age,
we begin to realize that the overachieving isn't like us
a need to achieve. It's kind of like an escapism
type of thing or gramma response yeah, or even you
just instantly were even like a breakup, a breakup, aspire
as a new business or like a you know something
like that.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
It does and you know those things are beautiful, right,
you know what is birth out of pain can be
very beautiful. I talk about that too, But I also
talk about when I was in therapy, this conversation black
woman therapist and I had and she wanted me to
answer the question of who are you? And she asked
me that question and I said, oh, okay, I'm about
to like rattle off my resume. She said, no, who
are you? Unattached to your professional accolades?
Speaker 1 (13:16):
And you started crying? I sure did.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
I was like, that's a hard question to answered, girl, And.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
We still like forty five minutes left, so I couldn't
really hang up those twohundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Like I'm said there looking at her, she's looking at me.
We both look at each.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Other like She's like, sys, how are you gonna answer
that question? And what I found is that the answer
is ever evolving. And it was that search for myself right,
and I wanted to drag everybody else with us, So
I tweeted that question and it went viral and that
was the whole chapter in the book. But you know,
I go back to that question of who am I?
Like when I'm anxious, when I'm feeling like, oh, I
got to strive for something else.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
No, I've done enough. But who am I? I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I'm a lover, I fight for people. I love people, right,
I'm actually not this person who's teflon don who doesn't
need intimate relationship in all forms?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Right? Like, who am I? And let me sit in
all of that? And that is enough.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
You're not in therapy anywhere, you said when you were.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
So, And I'm not discouraging people from therapy at all.
I think for me right now, in this period of life,
I'm just taking a break, and I think mental health
care is extremely important. Again, I mentioned I was diagnosed
with OCD when I was fifteen years old. So I've
been in and out over half of my majority of
my life at this point. And there are times when
I need extra support. There are times when I need
(14:31):
an antidepressant. There are times when I actually do need
to sit on that couch every single week, and then
there are times when okay, I'm going through the same
motions again. Now when am I going to do the work?
And so I think people need to look at it
as a support system. It's like working out in a gym.
Sometimes I feel like I need a trainer, even though
I've been athletic my whole life. Sometimes I need a trainer,
(14:52):
sometimes I can do it on my own, and vice versa.
And so it's a matter of tapping into your power
and your needs at the city at the time that
makes sense for you.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So glad that you and dev were doing a conversation
this week conversation books.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
We're going to do it at some point. It's not public,
but I'm.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Sorry because literally she was just here and a lot
of her new book, Living and Wisdom.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Well, and you know, here's the thing I shared with
her too. I'm based in the DC area, and I
moved back to the DC area not for politics, but
to be close to my family. And it's so interesting
because friends and politics are like you not at this event.
It's like, nah, I'm hanging out my family and my
friends and my loved ones. But I said to Debbie
one time that that area needs so much healing so
(15:38):
that folks get off of this hamster wheel of chasing
what's next, of what's what is deemed you know, important
to society, and really getting into ourselves. And you know,
I'm actually excited for her book too. I feel like
all these books are like now all these black women's
stories are coming out to like build upon one another.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Well, you need them now more than ever, especially being
that you know they're trying to take anything Black history literally.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Literally.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
There's a chapter in the book and so it's in
three parts. Disruption of self that's the hard part, disruption
of vision and you know, especially for like black folks
and black women. The first chapter in Disruption of Vision,
Goodbye to the Boss Them. That's a good one because
it talks about rest. It talks about disrupting this notion
(16:24):
that we are only supposed to labor and give birth
to labor, like there is so much more to us
as Black women, and how we deserve the rest and
all those things.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And then disruption of.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Community and right now we need to radically change how
we think about community and build community. But it really
starts with that imperative healing. And in Disruption of Community,
there's a chapter of storytelling. And I think folks look
at storytelling they think of Ava Duverne and Ryan Cookler
who are doing amazing work and preserving our history through
(16:56):
artistic expression. But individual storyteller is extremely powerful and I've
seen it even in my own life. But I've seen
how individual storytelling shifts families and friendships, and then that
expands your capacity for understanding of one another. And then
so one person becomes ten people and then all of
a sudden, you're understanding a complicated issue in a way
(17:18):
that's very personal to you. Right, And so storytelling is.
If it wasn't so powerful, there wouldn't be all these
attacks on our institutions and our history. And I actually
think everybody, whether or not you're putting a book out
there or not, figure out a way to preserve your story.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I was a mobile Alabama. I went to the.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I believe the Heritage Museum where the Cltilda is and
or the remnants of that slave ship, and just going
through the It's a very small museum, but just going
through it, and they're talking about how zor Neil Heerson
had captured some oral history, and I'm just thinking about, Wow,
so powerful for her to capture that in the nineteen
twenties for us to be reading about it right now.
(17:58):
And if we think about so much history as passed
down through these oral traditions, what would happen if we
can literally preserve them in a written way, digital way
like we have so many opportunities to preserve our history,
to pass down to the next generations.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I was going to ask you talked about when you
came in. You talk about relationships and you talk about
friends and how you have to see things in yourself.
Was it the fact that you expected too much of people?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And how did you get over that?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Like, you know, because you talk about you wanted somebody
to do things the way that you did it or
quote unquote as close to perfect as possible, how did
you get over that with relationships and with coworkers.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Well, again, facing the mirror of myself, I was like, girl,
you don't like yourself every day, and you also disappoint
yourself every day, and so how are you, you know,
holding yourself to this impossible standard, but also holding all
these other people to that, you know, those unpossible standards
as well. And so I got to this place of
(18:54):
separating standards and expectations of people and myself. I have
high standards, but I've lowered my expectations of people in essence,
and that like we will disappoint one another, we will
get in partnership whatever it may be, and we're not
going to to your point, do things the same way
that I would do them. I thought about this when
(19:15):
I started, so I'm an entrepreneur and hiring people, I'm like, okay, let'sia.
Does the thing need to get done the same way
you would do it or they just need to get
done And sometimes it just needs to get done.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
And then I think.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
About as I've been really on this journey of looking
at again all relationships in my life and friendships especially.
You know, we talk about love languages with intimate relationships,
but sometimes we don't think about that and how that
you know what that means for our our friendships. We
are always talking about, you know, how people how our partner,
(19:46):
intimate partners should love us or show up for us
and teaching them our love language. But the same with
our friendships, right, because a friend can be supporting you
and the way that they feel is like big supporting.
You're thinking, oh no, I wanted you to like roll
out the red carpet over here, and they're like, why
cook you a meal? And we're missing each other, right,
And so I had to really, what do you mean?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Because because like, don't tell me how to show up
for you. If I did me like, you know what
I mean and if they say this the thought that
counts right, but.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Then it's not right.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Well, yeah, but I think it also requires communication.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
One of the things that I realized was a red
flag of me is running from difficult conversation and when
it comes to interpersonal relationships. But if you have that
conversation with one another, if you can quiet out the
noise and actually be present in the relationship, you'll realize, oh,
your love language is different than my love language. But
that doesn't mean we don't love each other. That doesn't
(20:40):
mean we don't care for each other. And also, you
may not have the capacity to show up for me
in this moment, and it has nothing to do with
you not wanting to be there. You got all these
other things going on. The amount of calls I've had
to make. Now the book has come out and it's
been out, and we went through the book tour and
I'm like, oh, yeah, my bad friend of really not
being there for like six seven months, But thank you
for being my friend and showing up in the ways
(21:01):
that you could and understanding. But I didn't have the capacity.
But it takes intentional communication, and it takes something.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
That I don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
If you struggle with this, But as a virgal, I
struggle with this, being really, really, really vulnerable about what
you need.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
And I used to struggle. I don't struggle with it anymore.
I'm vulnerable so much I don't even it doesn't even
bother me. The big problem I had was is people
showing up for you. That was my thing, and in
what Charlamage said, I would show up for everybody. But
then when it was time for people to show up
for me, a lot of times they didn't, and it
would bother the shit out of me. And then I
had to realize that everybody's not the same. That's just
(21:35):
because you do see's something a certain way, that doesn't
mean necessarily Charlomagne is gonna do it, Lauren's gonna do
it the same way. And once I let that go,
I really don't. It just doesn't affect me the same anymore.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
And that's beautiful, and it reminds me of I'm a delta,
a pledge on college, and my line name is reciprocity
and my are.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
You supposed to say that? Probably you can say.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
So.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I'm disclosed, but everything else we are we are. Trust me.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
We trained to know what secret was that. But so
my line name's reciprocity. And my big sister who gave
me that line name, she knew. I was like, reciprocity,
like the word out of that Lauren Hill song, right, Like,
what are you talking about? And she's like, no, you
give give, gives so much, and you expect for people
to show up the same way that you do. And
she's like, that is a struggle of yours and it's
(22:26):
going to continue to be a struggle of yours. And
she was right, it's this thing that we're talking about.
And again, it wasn't until later in life, this point
in life that I'm in right now, to like remove
kind of those expectations of people and just like let
us exist and love one another, because I've even found too.
There's a chapter in here called the trailblazer conundrum and
(22:47):
talks about not isolating yourself even though you're blazing trails.
There are so many people in our lives who want
to show up for us, who don't even know how to.
They may not have the I don't know, the business
acumen to help us with something, the money, the resources,
but in their small ways it's actually really important, and
so giving people the opportunity to show up for you
(23:07):
in the way that makes sense for them is very
powerful too.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
You know, I want to talk to you about the
urgency in now chapter and the disruption of community, because
that is what people always get mad about when it
comes to Democrats, their lack of urgency. They don't have
a sense of urgency. I would I would go so
far as to say, their lack of urgency is what has.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Us in this situation right now. I would agree with that.
I would agree with that.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Well, I would agree with that and the decision makers
and the power because I don't want to embrase some
people that I talked about in the book and who
wrote a beautiful endorsement for the book, Congressoman Ayana Presley
Love someone who was like, I'm bucking the system and
I'm going to challenge this and comvent.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And there are a lot of those.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I mean, you've you've seen AOC you see, there's so
many folks. There are state representatives who do that as well.
This whole no of decorum and order it has it
is the reason we are where we are, and this
is the time to be honest for the new wave
and the new thought that is coming in the party
(24:13):
that and some of which is in the party to
challenge the status quo.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
How do we know it's not too late? Wow, they're
already talking about doing a third term. I know, once
we get to that part of the conversation and it
is normalized, maybe too late.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
So if it's but if it's if we have that
mentality that's too late, then people are going to be
sitting there not doing anything at all.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Is it too right, it's too late, or is it
just not loud enough because all the people you named
is like you can point to those people, but like
there is like that's a handful of people.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
It is a handful of people, but they're also so
I mean, here's the thing. You all are media. You know,
I'm on cable news. I will be on a show
and for an hour, all we're doing is talking about
Donald Trump. And I'm like, there's over four hundred members
in the House of Representatives, there's one hundred senators, there's
fifty governors. There's so many other people that we can
talk about, which is.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
They don't bring them numbers.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
They don't bring those numbers, and they don't bring those ratings.
And that is the self accountability on us to be
paying attention to a lot of those people. The other
thing that I'm so much more focused on, and some
of my journalists friends and I get into this disagreement.
I don't really talk to people who voted for Donald Trump,
like that's not I don't need to talk to them,
(25:20):
because if we look at the last election, ninety million
eligible voters did not vote. That's a whole lot of
people that we can reach to understand that they actually
have power to change the system. In the book, I
talk about the labor movement and how unions are incredibly
empower incredibly powerful. That is a way that we can
overthrow these companies that are run by these billionaires who
(25:42):
are out of touch the people power. And that's the
thing that I'm focused on right now. It's the people power.
And we've conceded our power to these people that we've
elected and not realizing that I pay taxes, so that
means I pay your salary and you work for me.
If people power wasn't so imperative, why did all these
elective officials shut down those town halls because they didn't
want to hear from their constituents, Because those loud voices
(26:05):
are disruptive and so look, the Democrats got a lot
to reckon with. It's the reason why I work for
myself so I can actually challenge them from the outside.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Because I think it is.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It is extremely It's not just that it's too late,
but it is harmful to communities who are dying because
of what is happening. It's harmful to communities who have
been fighting against these systems. And yet at the same time,
they are the ones that folks constantly look to to
create the solutions. And so until the Democratic Party, just
(26:43):
as much as we understand that you know, Republicans subscribe
to white supremacy, in the Democratic Party, there are folks
that need to understand that their positions are privileged, that
they need to get up out of their seats. A
real leader understands when they are in the way of progress.
And I think until we really reckon with that, we're
going to continue to see this fighting and we will
(27:04):
continue to lose in ways that quite frankly, are killing
so many of our communities.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
And I think you should talk to people who voted
for Trump. And the reason I think you should is
because then you'll understand the why and I think that's
where Democrats just simply fail. Yes, they didn't know, they
couldn't understand the why.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
It's like, oh you, how could you vote?
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Did you actually have a conversation with them to see
how because a lot of it does just have to
do with a lot of policies.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
That that's true.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
And let me let me clarify that there's a there
are a lot of people with privilege and understanding exactly
why they voted for Donald Trump, which is centered around
race that I do not like to engage with. But
to your point, but I think about where I grew up.
If I think about people who I may not talk
to anymore, but high school, college, whatever it may be, be,
(27:50):
they probably did vote for Donald Trump for whatever reason
it may be. And so what is the conversation? Is
that the economy? But then continue to ask all those questions,
is it because you believe this trope that other people
or taking your jobs? But the reality is it's these
billionaires not paying you a fair wage?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Like what is it?
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I think it is important, but my frustration is what
happens every cycle of Well, we need to moderate democratcsy
to moderate our positions and playcate to these phantom swing
voters that are going to vote for a black woman
when that's actually again back to my ninety million. We're
over here trying to get these few hundred thousand, but
there's all of these people left untouched right the table
(28:32):
over my book over So yes, yes, and thank you
for clarifying that so I could expound upon that, because
I don't want to go viral, and it'side, she don't
talk to the people, and she don't know.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
What about your because I know you did a lot
of work with playing parenthood and now a lot of
what you were doing is they ain't supporting that. So
when you do all this work, you stop taking the
rest to fight to make it, to break this ground,
and then you see this new administration come in who's
completely against it, and it's stripping all of that. You
feel defeated or like what happens now because you're not
(29:03):
there anymore?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
No, I mean, and then they have the audacity to
talk about they want to put policies in place for
people to have more babies and give people five thousand dollars.
I'm like, but y'all voted against the child tax credit,
So what's interesting about working at Planned Parenthood. I worked
there for six years at the National Office, and talk
about disruptive. Being the daughter of a pastor, a lover
of Jesus and advocating for abortion rights. People are like,
(29:25):
how do you reconcile that. I was like, I just exist, literally,
I just exist, And the teachings of Jesus, the Red
Text in the Bible, tells me a lot of ways
in which I should show up in the world. When
I look at when I was working at Plan Parenthood,
President Obama was still in office, and I was like, oh,
we're good.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
You know, he believes and reproductive freedom. This is great.
And they're like, oh no, let's look at.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
These state policies and these states that are overturning the
right to access to abortion, and not only access to abortion,
but sex education, contraception, all of these things, and just
gutting health care systems and health centers that are helping
people who have nowhere else to go. When I look
at what's happening now at the federal level, and you know,
(30:09):
the Trump administration is literally going after organizations like Planned Parenthood,
it reminds me that these people do not care about
people at the margins. They do not care about low
income folks who have nowhere else to go. And if
you actually wanted people to have more children in this country,
you would you would actually support and bolster the healthcare
system instead of gutting it. Last week was Black Maternal
(30:32):
Health Week, and Black maternal mortality is on the rise.
Maternal mortality across the country, across the demographics is on
the rise. And the wealthiest nation and so it's challenging,
it's frustrating. There's this Alice Walker quote I put at
the beginning of the book, and I'm paraphrasing it. You
have to keep a healthy soul on the face of
constant oppression, which reminds you that at the end of
(30:54):
the day, there's going to continuously be something that you're
fighting for. So how do you maintain your spirit in
order to keep going? And that is through the joy
and the rest, and all of those things can coexist
together while you're also still fighting for the ability to
have agency over my body. The one thing I will
say of everything being burned down, from abortion, access to
(31:15):
everything that's happening in our country, it gives us the
opportunity to build something better and something new. I don't
want to rebuild the old because the old was clearly
it was able to be dismantled. I actually now want
to be able to imagine something even better that's actually
going to work, and how do we build that?
Speaker 1 (31:33):
And that's actually what gets me up at night.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I'm like, I'm not fighting these people to rebuild what
didn't work. I have this vision that excites me to
build something even better, even on the days that are hard.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I agree with that.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
But then when I hear you saying that, you know
you Barack Obama was in the White House and you
big on playing parenthood. He had the opportunity to call
he did. He had the White House to send it
the House of Representatives for two years.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
He could have passed it in the federal any campaign
that he would.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
So it's just like, it's like I see stuff like that,
and I'm like, why do we believe these people?
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Again?
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Well, so I hear that, which is also why I
think the work to shift culture is so imperative. If
we think about President Biden, he actually is very i
would say moderate in his position around reproductive freedom, and
yet he had to champion issues that quite frankly if
(32:27):
culturally in society and as us as a collective, we're
not pushing and challenging people to actually do something about
these he wouldn't have, right, And so that's where culture
work is so important. That's where shifting you know, how
we think, as how we understand things as a society
is so important. But it's also how we show up
and tell people if you're not going to hold true
to your campaign promise, we are not going to support
(32:51):
you again. And so I love President Obama. Listen, if
Donald Trump runs for a third time, Obama's run for
a third time.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
But you know, you know that if Trump runs for
a third term, it'll be just like in Russia, it's
all for show. He will win.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Sure, right, I'm saying this and that Listen, I love
President Obama, and yet I have critique, and that is
one of my critiques, right, And when we had the
super majority and could have codified a lot of these issues,
we should have done it. But that doesn't make me
not participate, right, And that doesn't make me sit out
and say I'm never going to work for a presidential
(33:26):
candidate ever again, even if I disagree with them, because
there's a lot of I don't agree with one hundred
percent of the things that any of the people that
I work with are, but there's some fundamental things that
for me that are non negotiable. And if I'm not
at the table, if our friend Stephanie's at the table,
if you've had Ashley Allison here, if we're not at
the table, we can't push these these candidates further along
(33:47):
and these elected officials further along.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I guess it's just heartbreaking for me because it's like,
you know, yes, when they overturn Roe v Wade, it
was like Dan, they overturn Rovy Wade. But then when
you see people like President Obama speak out against that,
I'm like, but you have the ability, the godifire rob Way,
you could have made an actual federal legislation.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
I mean, the hard part about the abortion conversation is
how the right has actually used religion, has made it
a religious argument, when like that's actually not in the text.
And the reality is the right and conservatives we're losing
on they lost on segregation, and so they said, oh
we need some Well, we can't continue this race thing.
(34:28):
Now we're gonna have to go over here to this
woman thing, and let's actually make abortion a political lightning
rod And so when people fundamentally understand that they can
take away their personal beliefs and actually realize, oh, people's
right to make decisions for their bodies is their own
and that has nothing to do with me. If a
lot of people stay out each other's business, I think
our politics will be a lot better. Absolutely, And it's
(34:50):
too simple even I'm going back to the urgency.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
And now when people ask us now, like they'll tell
us all of these different things that Trump is doing
every single.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Day, and they're like, yo, what ire, what do you
think of that?
Speaker 4 (35:01):
And I'm like, I don't know what to think because
I'm like, what am I even supposed to do? Because
it always seems like the urgency is put on we
the people, right, But then when these elected officials that
we voted for from twenty twenty to twenty twenty four,
when they were in the White House, they didn't govern
with a sense of urgency. That's what always gets me
about Democrats. Whenever it's election time, it's a sense of urgency.
It's on y'all. It's just threat to democracy, and you
(35:22):
know you're gonna lose all your rights and everything else,
but you don't govern like that when you get in
an office.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, you know, it is frustrating.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I will say, I don't pay attention to what that
man is doing all day every day, because then I'll
just sit in this place where I'm immobile, right, But
I do look for small pockets of hope, and to
your point, it does end up being us that have
to save our own communities. But like, I think that's
(35:49):
in general nature of who we are as a people,
and that is community.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
I mean, look at you.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Know, our friends who started staying the people which I
was a part of, you all broadcasted and now it's going.
Now there's a whole tour shout out to Angela Raie
and Joy Read and so many folks who are just
building something beautiful, reminding us of our power as community.
And I think out of that birth's people who will
(36:15):
govern with urgency of now. So I write about Aana
Presley in the book, but I also write about Shirley Chisholm,
who was just fed up and was like, oh, I'm
going to actually be the one that changes, you know.
David Hogg, who was the vice chair of the DNC
but was a survivor of Parkland shooting, it's done all
(36:35):
of this activism and now he's challenging.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
He's getting a lot of heat. He's getting a lot
of heat.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
I have said that. I said that two months ago.
Anybody who's not willing to fight in the Democratic Party
should be primary, came Jeffery's Chuck Schuma, y'all should resign
if y'all not the people that.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Can meet this moment.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
I really feel that way, and anybody else in the
Democratic Party who's not willing to fight should be primary.
I'm all full with David Hall.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I said that months ago, and listen, you know there
are some people who disagree with that, but he said,
looks and change has. We can't just keep talking about change.
You gotta actually go after it. And whether or not
you believe and what he's doing, whether or not you
believe that there needs to be new leadership, whatever it
is like, changes don't just happen if we sit around
and wish for it.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
We actually have to do something about it.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
And sometimes in order to get these folks to operate
with some urgency, you gotta put some pressure and some
heat under them.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
That's why everybody in the party should have had a
copy of this book flip flip the table a lot.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
I don't know if they're going to do it though.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
They have no choice now, they never, We never don't
have When do we ever have a choice.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
No, there's really no choice now.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
I feel like it's always the fight or fight, like,
do what you gotta do to get out of situation?
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Right? Different?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
But I feel like it is different.
Speaker 5 (37:51):
But I don't feel like anything has changed about the
way that people are handling it. I don't really feel
the sense of urgency. There was an interview that you
talked about DEDI. You're like, these companies are folding. It
was a Glamour magazine and you said, these companies are foting.
They don't understand that the proximity to the president isn't power.
Power is showing him that he needs you. People are
not going to do that. Everything that we're talking about.
People just don't do it, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
But I think what I hear you and I do
have to remind us all that this man has only
he hasn't even been in office.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
A hundred days. But because we are in such an information.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Overload forever, it does like you open Instagram and I'm
saying restaurants, I want to go to and then I'm
seeing what this man is doing in the White House, right,
so like we're in this information overload and yeah, and
at the same time, I think about at the State
of the Union, shout out to Congressman Green and y'all
had him up here, and I was like, oh my gosh,
every single Democrat should have gotten up right after him
(38:45):
and disrupted the entire speech. Right And then when you
know Senator Booker did his filibuster, people were saying, yes,
this is what we need more of. But now you're
seeing more people in the streets, and I think people
are are some of our elected officials are understanding that
there's more that they can do now, and then there
(39:05):
are still going to be some who don't. And we
have midterm elections and special elections, and I am all
about getting people in office who are going to be
effective and also us participating in that. If you, whether
you agree with them or disagree with them, if they
represent you, you have the power and the right to
show up and tell them what is working and what
(39:26):
isn't working. And I want more of us to do.
I want our elected officials to be scared. I want
our elect officials to be like my constituents aren't going
for this, or my constituents told me I have to
do this, and that's why I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
It absolutely well.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
Flip the Tables is out right now and Sea Johnson
the everyday Disruptor's guide to finding courage and making change.
And this isn't a book, you know, just with.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
People who are in the politics now, just in life.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
If you want to learn how to codamn tables like.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Jesus did, Yes, more of that, Like, can you imagine
like Jesus flipping over tables?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
I was angry. Yes, I think you should. I think
you should find a table to flip. Listen. Okay, that's
a whole other conversation for us to have.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
That's just why Lindia Johnson is the breakfast club. Good morning,
wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
The breakfast Club
Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The Breakfast Club Morning everybody. It's theej envyes hilarious, Charlamagne
the God. We are the Breakfast Club. Law La Ross
here as well. And we got a special guest in
the building. Yes, indeed, her new book, Flip the Tables,
is out right now we have Alynsia Johnson.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome, Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
How you feeling.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I feel good.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Interesting to say that in the midst of everything going on,
but I feel good.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Taking care of myself and getting this message out.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
We find enjoy what we can right right, we have
to you got to the Way to survivor.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Absolutely. I love the title of.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Your book because I think that, you know, people don't
ever expound on that part of Jesus enough.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
You know what I mean, Crunk Jesus.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Yes, flip the tables that everyday disrupt this guide to
finding courage and making change break that title death.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah, you know, I'm glad you mentioned that reference. I'm
a pastor's daughter. I love that story of Jesus. And
in all of my work, I've worked on a lot
of presidential campaigns, I've worked for a Planned Parenthood, people
constantly ask me, Oh, my goodness, how can I make change?
They think it has to be at this massive scale.
But what I realized is that when we find the
courage to really be ourselves and to live in our
(01:08):
truth and to speak up in rooms and do these
small acts of disruption every single day, it doesn't actually
require folks to quit their jobs and run for office.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So I don't think a lot of people should do that.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It doesn't require us to be like doctor King or
you know, having these massive platforms which are really important.
But there are things that folks can do every single day.
And I found that getting connected to your individual purpose
and having the courage to be who you are is
directly connected to being an everyday disruptor that propels our
communities forward. And I think it's kind of divine that
(01:39):
it's such a time as this that it came out
when I started writing this book five years ago, and
who knew that it would come out three months after
a few months after Donald Trump was elected again.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
You worked on the VP's campaign, right, and did you
work with You worked with?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, I worked on I worked by Obama's campaign, j
and Biden's campaign was with Born's campaign and Vice President
Harris Cane.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
What bothers me is, I know people like you exist
in people like you work for these individuals. Why aren't
they disruptive enough? Why don't they flip tables? Why do
they keep Why do they don't?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Why don't why.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Don't they have the courage to disrupt the status?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Quote you all all of them?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Well, you know it's interesting because I don't. I don't
want to say I look at well, I don't think
I look at all of them.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
In essence the same.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
In democratic politics and politics in general, elected officials, I
think tend to follow a certain path, right, and sometimes
it seems as though making sure that the status quo remains.
I do think if we step back a little bit,
Barack Obama was a bit of a.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Disruptor because of him, because there's.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Identity, his identity, but and because he you know, folks
told him he shouldn't have ran, and he.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And he did.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Right now, there's a whole system at play that folks.
You know, when you become the president of the United
States or nominee for the President of the United States,
you know you uphold this party platform. But the reality is,
I don't look at them to disrupt what our country
needs politically, I actually look at us as the people
in the ground swell, which is why it's just as important. Yes,
(03:14):
I work for a lot of presidential campaigns, but it's
just as important to work for these local races, to
work for these primary races, to work for these governors races,
all these people who are actually trying to challenge the
system and get more reflective folks in position to actually
push forward the policies who care about, like universal health
care and you know, racial justice and access to abortion
(03:36):
and all those things. And so, you know, it takes
a lot of courage to shake the table, and it
takes a lot of courage to concede that if you're
going to shake the table, you actually might lose in
the short term, but you're going to create a path
for other people to you know, push forward that change,
and it will be a little bit easier because you
were there and you started something.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
How did you get into politics? What got you into
politics in that part of the game, I think it.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Was always in me. I talk about my late grandmother
in the book often.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I actually dedicate the book to.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Her, Miss Ozella Bennett, and she was one of those
people who, much like a lot of our ancestors, their
names aren't in history books, but they were foot soldiers.
My grandmother was in the church. I'm the daughter pastor,
so I grew up in the Black Church, and there's
a lot of politics there right, a lot of social
justice there, and just this understanding that were much as given,
much as required, that my gifts are not my own,
(04:27):
and that they are actually on loan, and that I
actually have to get those out and help.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
The world around me.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
And my grandmother, no matter how much she had or
what she didn't have, she always felt like she had
to stand in the gap. And voting for me is
just all I mean. I would go to with my
parents who the voting blue that had that little sticker,
But that was just like one part of it. I
had to be an active participant in the world that
I wanted to create, and so for me, it was
just kind of natural that it would be a part
(04:54):
of my life. Now I got to my position I
talk about in the book. I didn't know anybody in
democratic politics when I moved to DC.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I was working a corporate job. I just had a dream.
I was like, Oh, this black man is president.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I think I kind of want to work for his
reelection campaign and figured out how to network with folks
and ended up taking a job that I wasn't even
qualified for, but they took a chance on me, and
I figured it out from there. And I can't just
sit on the sidelines and critique something and not be
a part of it. And I also understand how engaging.
If so many more of us engaged in the process,
(05:28):
the outcomes will look different, our communities will look different.
But for whatever reason, there are so many barriers for
us to engage. And that's another reason why I wanted
to be part of this, because I felt like, well,
if I can do this and people can identify with me,
maybe it won't feel as hard right for me to
engage in politics. Maybe, you know, I won't feel a
shame that I don't know every single term that they're
(05:49):
using or every single way that the policy is developed.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Sometimes when I have to go and see it MSNBC
and talk about something, I got a research what I'm
talking about. Because government class was in high school. I'm
thirty seven years I don't remember everything, and so if
I can't remember all these things right, if I have
to continue to inform myself, imagine all the other people
who are just scared to participate because they don't know.
It's not that they don't want to. And so I
know that I have to be a representative of that.
(06:14):
But I also again this calling where much as given,
much as required, and I'm required to make my communities better.
Speaker 5 (06:21):
I think right now with politics and like how we're
seeing people get messages out through like TikTok and stuff
like that, things are changing. And I saw an interview
that you did where you talked about you weren't the
most qualified, but you were the most recommended when it
came to working for the Obamas. And then I saw
another interview where you talked about your red Flag is
You chapter in your book, brol And putting both of
those together, I think that there's like a renaissance of
(06:42):
like new political leaders, but they're afraid that they don't
know enough for it, that they can't challenge the Trumps
of the world, you know what I mean? So how
do you speak to those leaders that are coming up
in this book? Because they're there, they just need to
figure out how to do what you did.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
No, they literally are there, which is why I start
the book with the disruption of self. Right, we actually
have to look in the mirror, and that's the hardest
thing to do.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
One thing that I've realized in.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Working in advocacy spaces and political space.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I might controult for saying this.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
But we're telling the world to treat us well and
to vote for us, to enact these policies that see
us as worthy for humanity and all of these things
and fighting for justice, and yet we're not treating each
other well right, And a lot of that is because
we are not healthy. We're not dealing with the things
that are holding us back from being who we are.
We're not dealing with this trauma, and we're doing this
(07:30):
interpersonal harm that is actually not allowing us to do
the work that needs to be done for communities. And
so I put that chapter the red Flag as You
and the Disruption of Self section of the book because
so many times we are like we are the ones
that are getting in our own way of our own destiny,
whether it is that professional pursuit, whether it's that personal pursuit.
(07:53):
I write, I tell a lot of business in my book,
and a lot of a lot of this was inspired
by a lot of relationships that were going the wrong way,
and I was like dating the same person, but none
of them know each other. Like, what's happening here. I'm
holding myself back from career opportunities. I'm holding myself back.
But yet I knew I had this big vision. And
so if we remove those barriers within our own selves
(08:15):
that are holding ourselves back, we would be so surprised
the change that we could have in the world around us. Right,
we would be so surprised at the doors that would
not just open, but the spaces that we create that
somebody else was waiting for us to create. So many
times people just sit on the sidelines to critique, but
they don't have the courage to actually try and put
themselves out there. And that's why, you know, the only
(08:38):
things stopping us. Sometimes, yes, there's the system, right, like,
there's all of that, and yet at the same time,
sometimes it's us getting in our own way.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think it's us majority of the time, it is.
I really feel that way.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
I feel like, you know, yes, we do know the
systems are there, but even just having that mentality right like, oh,
the system's going to stop me. The system's going to
stop me. You're already telling.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yourself no, that's right, where you're already limiting yourself, right,
and multiple things can be true at the same time.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I say it all the time.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I have a friend who eights that I say that,
but I'm like, yes, the system's there, but like it's you,
you sitting over here. And I talk about this as well.
I talk about mental health health in the book. I
was diagnosed with OCD when I was fifteen, so I've
been in and out of therapy my whole life, and
at one point, actually in the process of writing this book,
which was really hard, i quit therapy because I was like,
I'm sitting here having the same conversation every Monday at
(09:25):
five pm, and I'm not doing the work because I'm
scared of facing myself. I'm not having that difficult conversation.
I'm sitting here theorizing it. Wie Brown just said that literally.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
I mean that's something she's always told me, but literally,
she was just sitting there and said the exact same thing.
People are go to therapy for years for years, be
afraid to actually do the hard work on themselves.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Yeah, and it's like, how do we as a society
get to a place that we are scared to sit
with ourselves. Part of how I got to this book
was a very successful career. I'm extremely blessed. I'm sitting
in this beautiful corner apartment. I got all the things
I bought, all the things I can travel, going on
all these places. I was sitting there and I was
crying because I was not happy. And I looked in
(10:05):
the mirror and I was like, what are you covering up?
And what are you running from? And what really hit
me was when I realized you're running from yourself, and like,
how sad is that that we run from ourselves? Like
we are something to be fearful of. And so I
had to change the relationship with myself. I had to
change the relationship with what success looked like, with what
(10:26):
relationships look like, and that you know, tension and confrontation
and disagreement and relationship doesn't mean the end of a relationship, right.
And that shifted my friendships, it shifted my professional relationships,
and it got me to this bold place of you
know what, I know what my purpose is. I know
that this is a means to an end, and if
this doesn't go, my way at least I've tried. Didn't
(10:48):
you like that? You saw? Like?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
What were you running from?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Particularly and myself, one of the things is how hard
I am on myself. I'm a virgo in four houses
and clearly high achieving person, and I was just so
hard on birthday September third, very close to be on birthday,
did okay?
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So you feel me?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And I got to a place where I was judging
myself so hard, judging myself for I don't even want
to say mistakes but learning opportunities, judging myself for outcomes
that did or did not happen. And I had someone
say to me. They said, if people around you that
you love heard how hard you are on yourself, how
(11:33):
are they going to feel you're going to be with them?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I was like, oh.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Wow, and like to to really kind of beat myself
down with you should have done this right, You could
have done X, Y and Z. Now I'm working to
take should out of my vocabulary and embracing things as
you know, a learning opportunity.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
And I also as a person.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Of deep faith, I talk about grace, and we talk
about God's grace, and we talk about giving other people grace.
But I had to learn to give myself that that
grace as well, and like let go of that pressure
to feel or strive for perfection, because what really is perfection?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Right?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
And what is actually the goal? Because there is like
the goalpost will move every single time, and how do
you just become content with just being? I also realize
that I didn't again in therapy, knowing all the language,
I didn't like to sit with my feelings. Oh no,
I'm angry. I don't want to sit with that uncomfortable feeling.
I'm going to go move on to something else. And
then something that black women tend to do is instead
(12:29):
of sitting with our feelings or whatever it may be,
we go get another degree, we go get another professional pursuit.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
We was just talking with that in my group, probably
like a week ago, about how like now, at this age,
we begin to realize that the overachieving isn't like us
a need to achieve. It's kind of like an escapism
type of thing or gramma response yeah, or even you
just instantly were even like a breakup, a breakup, aspire
as a new business or like a you know something
like that.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
It does and you know those things are beautiful, right,
you know what is birth out of pain can be
very beautiful. I talk about that too, But I also
talk about when I was in therapy, this conversation black
woman therapist and I had and she wanted me to
answer the question of who are you? And she asked
me that question and I said, oh, okay, I'm about
to like rattle off my resume. She said, no, who
are you? Unattached to your professional accolades?
Speaker 1 (13:16):
And you started crying? I sure did.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
I was like, that's a hard question to answered, girl, And.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
We still like forty five minutes left, so I couldn't
really hang up those twohundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Like I'm said there looking at her, she's looking at me.
We both look at each.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Other like She's like, sys, how are you gonna answer
that question? And what I found is that the answer
is ever evolving. And it was that search for myself right,
and I wanted to drag everybody else with us, So
I tweeted that question and it went viral and that
was the whole chapter in the book. But you know,
I go back to that question of who am I?
Like when I'm anxious, when I'm feeling like, oh, I
got to strive for something else.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
No, I've done enough. But who am I? I'm curious.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I'm a lover, I fight for people. I love people, right,
I'm actually not this person who's teflon don who doesn't
need intimate relationship in all forms?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Right? Like, who am I? And let me sit in
all of that? And that is enough.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
You're not in therapy anywhere, you said when you were.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
So, And I'm not discouraging people from therapy at all.
I think for me right now, in this period of life,
I'm just taking a break, and I think mental health
care is extremely important. Again, I mentioned I was diagnosed
with OCD when I was fifteen years old. So I've
been in and out over half of my majority of
my life at this point. And there are times when
I need extra support. There are times when I need
(14:31):
an antidepressant. There are times when I actually do need
to sit on that couch every single week, and then
there are times when okay, I'm going through the same
motions again. Now when am I going to do the work?
And so I think people need to look at it
as a support system. It's like working out in a gym.
Sometimes I feel like I need a trainer, even though
I've been athletic my whole life. Sometimes I need a trainer,
(14:52):
sometimes I can do it on my own, and vice versa.
And so it's a matter of tapping into your power
and your needs at the city at the time that
makes sense for you.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So glad that you and dev were doing a conversation
this week conversation books.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
We're going to do it at some point. It's not public,
but I'm.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Sorry because literally she was just here and a lot
of her new book, Living and Wisdom.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Well, and you know, here's the thing I shared with
her too. I'm based in the DC area, and I
moved back to the DC area not for politics, but
to be close to my family. And it's so interesting
because friends and politics are like you not at this event.
It's like, nah, I'm hanging out my family and my
friends and my loved ones. But I said to Debbie
one time that that area needs so much healing so
(15:38):
that folks get off of this hamster wheel of chasing
what's next, of what's what is deemed you know, important
to society, and really getting into ourselves. And you know,
I'm actually excited for her book too. I feel like
all these books are like now all these black women's
stories are coming out to like build upon one another.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Well, you need them now more than ever, especially being
that you know they're trying to take anything Black history literally.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Literally.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
There's a chapter in the book and so it's in
three parts. Disruption of self that's the hard part, disruption
of vision and you know, especially for like black folks
and black women. The first chapter in Disruption of Vision,
Goodbye to the Boss Them. That's a good one because
it talks about rest. It talks about disrupting this notion
(16:24):
that we are only supposed to labor and give birth
to labor, like there is so much more to us
as Black women, and how we deserve the rest and
all those things.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And then disruption of.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Community and right now we need to radically change how
we think about community and build community. But it really
starts with that imperative healing. And in Disruption of Community,
there's a chapter of storytelling. And I think folks look
at storytelling they think of Ava Duverne and Ryan Cookler
who are doing amazing work and preserving our history through
(16:56):
artistic expression. But individual storyteller is extremely powerful and I've
seen it even in my own life. But I've seen
how individual storytelling shifts families and friendships, and then that
expands your capacity for understanding of one another. And then
so one person becomes ten people and then all of
a sudden, you're understanding a complicated issue in a way
(17:18):
that's very personal to you. Right, And so storytelling is.
If it wasn't so powerful, there wouldn't be all these
attacks on our institutions and our history. And I actually
think everybody, whether or not you're putting a book out
there or not, figure out a way to preserve your story.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I was a mobile Alabama. I went to the.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I believe the Heritage Museum where the Cltilda is and
or the remnants of that slave ship, and just going
through the It's a very small museum, but just going
through it, and they're talking about how zor Neil Heerson
had captured some oral history, and I'm just thinking about, Wow,
so powerful for her to capture that in the nineteen
twenties for us to be reading about it right now.
(17:58):
And if we think about so much history as passed
down through these oral traditions, what would happen if we
can literally preserve them in a written way, digital way
like we have so many opportunities to preserve our history,
to pass down to the next generations.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I was going to ask you talked about when you
came in. You talk about relationships and you talk about
friends and how you have to see things in yourself.
Was it the fact that you expected too much of people?
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And how did you get over that?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Like, you know, because you talk about you wanted somebody
to do things the way that you did it or
quote unquote as close to perfect as possible, how did
you get over that with relationships and with coworkers.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Well, again, facing the mirror of myself, I was like, girl,
you don't like yourself every day, and you also disappoint
yourself every day, and so how are you, you know,
holding yourself to this impossible standard, but also holding all
these other people to that, you know, those unpossible standards
as well. And so I got to this place of
(18:54):
separating standards and expectations of people and myself. I have
high standards, but I've lowered my expectations of people in essence,
and that like we will disappoint one another, we will
get in partnership whatever it may be, and we're not
going to to your point, do things the same way
that I would do them. I thought about this when
(19:15):
I started, so I'm an entrepreneur and hiring people, I'm like, okay, let'sia.
Does the thing need to get done the same way
you would do it or they just need to get
done And sometimes it just needs to get done.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
And then I think.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
About as I've been really on this journey of looking
at again all relationships in my life and friendships especially.
You know, we talk about love languages with intimate relationships,
but sometimes we don't think about that and how that
you know what that means for our our friendships. We
are always talking about, you know, how people how our partner,
(19:46):
intimate partners should love us or show up for us
and teaching them our love language. But the same with
our friendships, right, because a friend can be supporting you
and the way that they feel is like big supporting.
You're thinking, oh no, I wanted you to like roll
out the red carpet over here, and they're like, why
cook you a meal? And we're missing each other, right,
And so I had to really, what do you mean?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
Because because like, don't tell me how to show up
for you. If I did me like, you know what
I mean and if they say this the thought that
counts right, but.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Then it's not right.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Well, yeah, but I think it also requires communication.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
One of the things that I realized was a red
flag of me is running from difficult conversation and when
it comes to interpersonal relationships. But if you have that
conversation with one another, if you can quiet out the
noise and actually be present in the relationship, you'll realize, oh,
your love language is different than my love language. But
that doesn't mean we don't love each other. That doesn't
(20:40):
mean we don't care for each other. And also, you
may not have the capacity to show up for me
in this moment, and it has nothing to do with
you not wanting to be there. You got all these
other things going on. The amount of calls I've had
to make. Now the book has come out and it's
been out, and we went through the book tour and
I'm like, oh, yeah, my bad friend of really not
being there for like six seven months, But thank you
for being my friend and showing up in the ways
(21:01):
that you could and understanding. But I didn't have the capacity.
But it takes intentional communication, and it takes something.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
That I don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
If you struggle with this, But as a virgal, I
struggle with this, being really, really, really vulnerable about what
you need.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
And I used to struggle. I don't struggle with it anymore.
I'm vulnerable so much I don't even it doesn't even
bother me. The big problem I had was is people
showing up for you. That was my thing, and in
what Charlamage said, I would show up for everybody. But
then when it was time for people to show up
for me, a lot of times they didn't, and it
would bother the shit out of me. And then I
had to realize that everybody's not the same. That's just
(21:35):
because you do see's something a certain way, that doesn't
mean necessarily Charlomagne is gonna do it, Lauren's gonna do
it the same way. And once I let that go,
I really don't. It just doesn't affect me the same anymore.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
And that's beautiful, and it reminds me of I'm a delta,
a pledge on college, and my line name is reciprocity
and my are.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
You supposed to say that? Probably you can say.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
So.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I'm disclosed, but everything else we are we are. Trust me.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
We trained to know what secret was that. But so
my line name's reciprocity. And my big sister who gave
me that line name, she knew. I was like, reciprocity,
like the word out of that Lauren Hill song, right, Like,
what are you talking about? And she's like, no, you
give give, gives so much, and you expect for people
to show up the same way that you do. And
she's like, that is a struggle of yours and it's
(22:26):
going to continue to be a struggle of yours. And
she was right, it's this thing that we're talking about.
And again, it wasn't until later in life, this point
in life that I'm in right now, to like remove
kind of those expectations of people and just like let
us exist and love one another, because I've even found too.
There's a chapter in here called the trailblazer conundrum and
(22:47):
talks about not isolating yourself even though you're blazing trails.
There are so many people in our lives who want
to show up for us, who don't even know how to.
They may not have the I don't know, the business
acumen to help us with something, the money, the resources,
but in their small ways it's actually really important, and
so giving people the opportunity to show up for you
(23:07):
in the way that makes sense for them is very
powerful too.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
You know, I want to talk to you about the
urgency in now chapter and the disruption of community, because
that is what people always get mad about when it
comes to Democrats, their lack of urgency. They don't have
a sense of urgency. I would I would go so
far as to say, their lack of urgency is what has.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Us in this situation right now. I would agree with that.
I would agree with that.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Well, I would agree with that and the decision makers
and the power because I don't want to embrase some
people that I talked about in the book and who
wrote a beautiful endorsement for the book, Congressoman Ayana Presley
Love someone who was like, I'm bucking the system and
I'm going to challenge this and comvent.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And there are a lot of those.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I mean, you've you've seen AOC you see, there's so
many folks. There are state representatives who do that as well.
This whole no of decorum and order it has it
is the reason we are where we are, and this
is the time to be honest for the new wave
and the new thought that is coming in the party
(24:13):
that and some of which is in the party to
challenge the status quo.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
How do we know it's not too late? Wow, they're
already talking about doing a third term. I know, once
we get to that part of the conversation and it
is normalized, maybe too late.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
So if it's but if it's if we have that
mentality that's too late, then people are going to be
sitting there not doing anything at all.
Speaker 5 (24:33):
Is it too right, it's too late, or is it
just not loud enough because all the people you named
is like you can point to those people, but like
there is like that's a handful of people.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
It is a handful of people, but they're also so
I mean, here's the thing. You all are media. You know,
I'm on cable news. I will be on a show
and for an hour, all we're doing is talking about
Donald Trump. And I'm like, there's over four hundred members
in the House of Representatives, there's one hundred senators, there's
fifty governors. There's so many other people that we can
talk about, which is.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
They don't bring them numbers.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
They don't bring those numbers, and they don't bring those ratings.
And that is the self accountability on us to be
paying attention to a lot of those people. The other
thing that I'm so much more focused on, and some
of my journalists friends and I get into this disagreement.
I don't really talk to people who voted for Donald Trump,
like that's not I don't need to talk to them,
(25:20):
because if we look at the last election, ninety million
eligible voters did not vote. That's a whole lot of
people that we can reach to understand that they actually
have power to change the system. In the book, I
talk about the labor movement and how unions are incredibly
empower incredibly powerful. That is a way that we can
overthrow these companies that are run by these billionaires who
(25:42):
are out of touch the people power. And that's the
thing that I'm focused on right now. It's the people power.
And we've conceded our power to these people that we've
elected and not realizing that I pay taxes, so that
means I pay your salary and you work for me.
If people power wasn't so imperative, why did all these
elective officials shut down those town halls because they didn't
want to hear from their constituents, Because those loud voices
(26:05):
are disruptive and so look, the Democrats got a lot
to reckon with. It's the reason why I work for
myself so I can actually challenge them from the outside.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Because I think it is.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It is extremely It's not just that it's too late,
but it is harmful to communities who are dying because
of what is happening. It's harmful to communities who have
been fighting against these systems. And yet at the same time,
they are the ones that folks constantly look to to
create the solutions. And so until the Democratic Party, just
(26:43):
as much as we understand that you know, Republicans subscribe
to white supremacy, in the Democratic Party, there are folks
that need to understand that their positions are privileged, that
they need to get up out of their seats. A
real leader understands when they are in the way of progress.
And I think until we really reckon with that, we're
going to continue to see this fighting and we will
(27:04):
continue to lose in ways that quite frankly, are killing
so many of our communities.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
And I think you should talk to people who voted
for Trump. And the reason I think you should is
because then you'll understand the why and I think that's
where Democrats just simply fail. Yes, they didn't know, they
couldn't understand the why.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
It's like, oh you, how could you vote?
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Did you actually have a conversation with them to see
how because a lot of it does just have to
do with a lot of policies.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
That that's true.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
And let me let me clarify that there's a there
are a lot of people with privilege and understanding exactly
why they voted for Donald Trump, which is centered around
race that I do not like to engage with. But
to your point, but I think about where I grew up.
If I think about people who I may not talk
to anymore, but high school, college, whatever it may be, be,
(27:50):
they probably did vote for Donald Trump for whatever reason
it may be. And so what is the conversation? Is
that the economy? But then continue to ask all those questions,
is it because you believe this trope that other people
or taking your jobs? But the reality is it's these
billionaires not paying you a fair wage?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Like what is it?
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I think it is important, but my frustration is what
happens every cycle of Well, we need to moderate democratcsy
to moderate our positions and playcate to these phantom swing
voters that are going to vote for a black woman
when that's actually again back to my ninety million. We're
over here trying to get these few hundred thousand, but
there's all of these people left untouched right the table
(28:32):
over my book over So yes, yes, and thank you
for clarifying that so I could expound upon that, because
I don't want to go viral, and it'side, she don't
talk to the people, and she don't know.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
What about your because I know you did a lot
of work with playing parenthood and now a lot of
what you were doing is they ain't supporting that. So
when you do all this work, you stop taking the
rest to fight to make it, to break this ground,
and then you see this new administration come in who's
completely against it, and it's stripping all of that. You
feel defeated or like what happens now because you're not
(29:03):
there anymore?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
No, I mean, and then they have the audacity to
talk about they want to put policies in place for
people to have more babies and give people five thousand dollars.
I'm like, but y'all voted against the child tax credit,
So what's interesting about working at Planned Parenthood. I worked
there for six years at the National Office, and talk
about disruptive. Being the daughter of a pastor, a lover
of Jesus and advocating for abortion rights. People are like,
(29:25):
how do you reconcile that. I was like, I just exist, literally,
I just exist, And the teachings of Jesus, the Red
Text in the Bible, tells me a lot of ways
in which I should show up in the world. When
I look at when I was working at Plan Parenthood,
President Obama was still in office, and I was like, oh,
we're good.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
You know, he believes and reproductive freedom. This is great.
And they're like, oh no, let's look at.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
These state policies and these states that are overturning the
right to access to abortion, and not only access to abortion,
but sex education, contraception, all of these things, and just
gutting health care systems and health centers that are helping
people who have nowhere else to go. When I look
at what's happening now at the federal level, and you know,
(30:09):
the Trump administration is literally going after organizations like Planned Parenthood,
it reminds me that these people do not care about
people at the margins. They do not care about low
income folks who have nowhere else to go. And if
you actually wanted people to have more children in this country,
you would you would actually support and bolster the healthcare
system instead of gutting it. Last week was Black Maternal
(30:32):
Health Week, and Black maternal mortality is on the rise.
Maternal mortality across the country, across the demographics is on
the rise. And the wealthiest nation and so it's challenging,
it's frustrating. There's this Alice Walker quote I put at
the beginning of the book, and I'm paraphrasing it. You
have to keep a healthy soul on the face of
constant oppression, which reminds you that at the end of
(30:54):
the day, there's going to continuously be something that you're
fighting for. So how do you maintain your spirit in
order to keep going? And that is through the joy
and the rest, and all of those things can coexist
together while you're also still fighting for the ability to
have agency over my body. The one thing I will
say of everything being burned down, from abortion, access to
(31:15):
everything that's happening in our country, it gives us the
opportunity to build something better and something new. I don't
want to rebuild the old because the old was clearly
it was able to be dismantled. I actually now want
to be able to imagine something even better that's actually
going to work, and how do we build that?
Speaker 1 (31:33):
And that's actually what gets me up at night.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I'm like, I'm not fighting these people to rebuild what
didn't work. I have this vision that excites me to
build something even better, even on the days that are hard.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I agree with that.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
But then when I hear you saying that, you know
you Barack Obama was in the White House and you
big on playing parenthood. He had the opportunity to call
he did. He had the White House to send it
the House of Representatives for two years.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
He could have passed it in the federal any campaign
that he would.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
So it's just like, it's like I see stuff like that,
and I'm like, why do we believe these people?
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Again?
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Well, so I hear that, which is also why I
think the work to shift culture is so imperative. If
we think about President Biden, he actually is very i
would say moderate in his position around reproductive freedom, and
yet he had to champion issues that quite frankly if
(32:27):
culturally in society and as us as a collective, we're
not pushing and challenging people to actually do something about
these he wouldn't have, right, And so that's where culture
work is so important. That's where shifting you know, how
we think, as how we understand things as a society
is so important. But it's also how we show up
and tell people if you're not going to hold true
to your campaign promise, we are not going to support
(32:51):
you again. And so I love President Obama. Listen, if
Donald Trump runs for a third time, Obama's run for
a third time.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
But you know, you know that if Trump runs for
a third term, it'll be just like in Russia, it's
all for show. He will win.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Sure, right, I'm saying this and that Listen, I love
President Obama, and yet I have critique, and that is
one of my critiques, right, And when we had the
super majority and could have codified a lot of these issues,
we should have done it. But that doesn't make me
not participate, right, And that doesn't make me sit out
and say I'm never going to work for a presidential
(33:26):
candidate ever again, even if I disagree with them, because
there's a lot of I don't agree with one hundred
percent of the things that any of the people that
I work with are, but there's some fundamental things that
for me that are non negotiable. And if I'm not
at the table, if our friend Stephanie's at the table,
if you've had Ashley Allison here, if we're not at
the table, we can't push these these candidates further along
(33:47):
and these elected officials further along.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I guess it's just heartbreaking for me because it's like,
you know, yes, when they overturn Roe v Wade, it
was like Dan, they overturn Rovy Wade. But then when
you see people like President Obama speak out against that,
I'm like, but you have the ability, the godifire rob Way,
you could have made an actual federal legislation.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
I mean, the hard part about the abortion conversation is
how the right has actually used religion, has made it
a religious argument, when like that's actually not in the text.
And the reality is the right and conservatives we're losing
on they lost on segregation, and so they said, oh
we need some Well, we can't continue this race thing.
(34:28):
Now we're gonna have to go over here to this
woman thing, and let's actually make abortion a political lightning
rod And so when people fundamentally understand that they can
take away their personal beliefs and actually realize, oh, people's
right to make decisions for their bodies is their own
and that has nothing to do with me. If a
lot of people stay out each other's business, I think
our politics will be a lot better. Absolutely, And it's
(34:50):
too simple even I'm going back to the urgency.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
And now when people ask us now, like they'll tell
us all of these different things that Trump is doing
every single.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Day, and they're like, yo, what ire, what do you
think of that?
Speaker 4 (35:01):
And I'm like, I don't know what to think because
I'm like, what am I even supposed to do? Because
it always seems like the urgency is put on we
the people, right, But then when these elected officials that
we voted for from twenty twenty to twenty twenty four,
when they were in the White House, they didn't govern
with a sense of urgency. That's what always gets me
about Democrats. Whenever it's election time, it's a sense of urgency.
It's on y'all. It's just threat to democracy, and you
(35:22):
know you're gonna lose all your rights and everything else,
but you don't govern like that when you get in
an office.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, you know, it is frustrating.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I will say, I don't pay attention to what that
man is doing all day every day, because then I'll
just sit in this place where I'm immobile, right, But
I do look for small pockets of hope, and to
your point, it does end up being us that have
to save our own communities. But like, I think that's
(35:49):
in general nature of who we are as a people,
and that is community.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
I mean, look at you.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Know, our friends who started staying the people which I
was a part of, you all broadcasted and now it's going.
Now there's a whole tour shout out to Angela Raie
and Joy Read and so many folks who are just
building something beautiful, reminding us of our power as community.
And I think out of that birth's people who will
(36:15):
govern with urgency of now. So I write about Aana
Presley in the book, but I also write about Shirley Chisholm,
who was just fed up and was like, oh, I'm
going to actually be the one that changes, you know.
David Hogg, who was the vice chair of the DNC
but was a survivor of Parkland shooting, it's done all
(36:35):
of this activism and now he's challenging.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
He's getting a lot of heat. He's getting a lot
of heat.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
I have said that. I said that two months ago.
Anybody who's not willing to fight in the Democratic Party
should be primary, came Jeffery's Chuck Schuma, y'all should resign
if y'all not the people that.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Can meet this moment.
Speaker 4 (36:54):
I really feel that way, and anybody else in the
Democratic Party who's not willing to fight should be primary.
I'm all full with David Hall.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I said that months ago, and listen, you know there
are some people who disagree with that, but he said,
looks and change has. We can't just keep talking about change.
You gotta actually go after it. And whether or not
you believe and what he's doing, whether or not you
believe that there needs to be new leadership, whatever it
is like, changes don't just happen if we sit around
and wish for it.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
We actually have to do something about it.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
And sometimes in order to get these folks to operate
with some urgency, you gotta put some pressure and some
heat under them.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
That's why everybody in the party should have had a
copy of this book flip flip the table a lot.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
I don't know if they're going to do it though.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
They have no choice now, they never, We never don't
have When do we ever have a choice.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
No, there's really no choice now.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
I feel like it's always the fight or fight, like,
do what you gotta do to get out of situation?
Speaker 3 (37:47):
Right? Different?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
But I feel like it is different.
Speaker 5 (37:51):
But I don't feel like anything has changed about the
way that people are handling it. I don't really feel
the sense of urgency. There was an interview that you
talked about DEDI. You're like, these companies are folding. It
was a Glamour magazine and you said, these companies are foting.
They don't understand that the proximity to the president isn't power.
Power is showing him that he needs you. People are
not going to do that. Everything that we're talking about.
People just don't do it, you know.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
But I think what I hear you and I do
have to remind us all that this man has only
he hasn't even been in office.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
A hundred days. But because we are in such an information.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Overload forever, it does like you open Instagram and I'm
saying restaurants, I want to go to and then I'm
seeing what this man is doing in the White House, right,
so like we're in this information overload and yeah, and
at the same time, I think about at the State
of the Union, shout out to Congressman Green and y'all
had him up here, and I was like, oh my gosh,
every single Democrat should have gotten up right after him
(38:45):
and disrupted the entire speech. Right And then when you
know Senator Booker did his filibuster, people were saying, yes,
this is what we need more of. But now you're
seeing more people in the streets, and I think people
are are some of our elected officials are understanding that
there's more that they can do now, and then there
(39:05):
are still going to be some who don't. And we
have midterm elections and special elections, and I am all
about getting people in office who are going to be
effective and also us participating in that. If you, whether
you agree with them or disagree with them, if they
represent you, you have the power and the right to
show up and tell them what is working and what
(39:26):
isn't working. And I want more of us to do.
I want our elected officials to be scared. I want
our elect officials to be like my constituents aren't going
for this, or my constituents told me I have to
do this, and that's why I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
It absolutely well.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
Flip the Tables is out right now and Sea Johnson
the everyday Disruptor's guide to finding courage and making change.
And this isn't a book, you know, just with.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
People who are in the politics now, just in life.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
If you want to learn how to codamn tables like.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Jesus did, Yes, more of that, Like, can you imagine
like Jesus flipping over tables?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
I was angry. Yes, I think you should. I think
you should find a table to flip. Listen. Okay, that's
a whole other conversation for us to have.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
That's just why Lindia Johnson is the breakfast club. Good morning,
wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
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