Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the We Don't Podcast, starring husband and wife
Mojo from Mojo in the Morning and his better half Chelsea.
On this episode.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
On this episode of the what do we call this podcast?
It's been so long since we've done it, we don't
the we Don't podcast? We got a new one today,
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
We do? Finally?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Where have we been? And why have we not had
a new podcast in a while? We will explain coming
up during this episode.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Well, all right, all right, all right, without further delay,
here are Mojo and Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hi, Chelse, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
My name is Tom. I don't know if you know me.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I do.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'm the person that co hosts the wee Know podcasters. Yes,
so we have not had a podcast in a while.
What do you think it was? What is it? The
fact that you're You and I are never in the
same place.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
We're never in the same place. Yeah, it's been a
while since we've been and when we're in the same place,
we have so much catching up to do with life. Yeah,
so it's been a little difficult.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, I also think in we kind of have done
When people say, well, why have you guys not been
in the same place at the same time. You have
spent a lot of time down in Florida, yep. And
I've spent a lot of time here in Michigan. Yes,
And now you're back.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Now I'm back.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
And how was that for you?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
By the way, it was amazing. It was really good,
really really good. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Do you ever annoy your son with the amount of
time that you spend with him?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I try not to spend it all with him, so
I don't think that he gets too annoyed and plus,
but he does. He's the one child that literally, if
he could crawl back up in my womb, he would
if I could give him the he he loves to.
He does not like to be alone, so he loves
to be with us and spend time with us.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Where he uh seems to like when you say, hey,
I'm going to come down and I'm going to be
visiting you for a couple of weeks or whatever it is,
he gets really excited about.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
That, very excited.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
We just got back from visiting Jacob in Chicago, and
we came in on a Friday, left on Sunday morning.
We saw him for dinner on Saturdayturday.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, Well, we got in late Friday night. We picked
up Luke at Michigan State on the because he decided
last minute that he wanted to come with us, So
we got in later on Friday night, Friday evening, and
then Saturday we were out during the day because he
had plans on Saturday during the day Jacob did yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
And then playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I found out, well, that's and that was he had
planned that for a while. It was his birthday weekend
and that's what he had planned to do. And we
and then we had dinner Saturday night, which was nice,
and then we left on Sunday. You know, the difference
is when Joe was there for school, Joe would want
us to come all of the time and every weekend.
And I do feel a little bad because I feel
(03:17):
like we have not gone as much for Jacob. But
Jacob honestly doesn't say, hey, come visit me, or do
you want to come visit or I think you almost
feel like you're interrupting.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I would like Jacob, though, to speak up about that,
because I do feel sometimes we don't go see him enough. Yeah,
And honestly, we didn't really go see Luke a lot
during the school year. Either.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
No, and Luke is super close. Yeah, no, we only go. Yeah,
we go up for parents weekend. We went up for
I went up for Mom's day. You went up for
Dad's Day. I mean that's all. Yeah, we don't go
and see him either.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
And yeah, I wonder sometimes, how do you how what
is your perfect like? What if as far as kids
are concerned, Because Joe, like you said, wants to be
right up in your vagina again, well, I was just.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
In my womb. Let's say that he'd rather be back
in the belly.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I would like to be in your Okay, where do
you what do you like? What's what's the happy medium?
Do you ever feel when Jacob is not wanting like saying, hey,
I want you guys come visit or I'm going to
come back home and visit. Does that ever bother you
at all?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I miss him. I like what I love when they
are home, and I love being with them. But you know,
they're also all three different. They're just so different. Where again,
Joe loves Joe was like you, and he loves to
have people around. And when he's in his car, he
(04:49):
wants to be on the phone, and he's very he
doesn't like quiet and alone time. Jacob has always loved
quiet and alone time. And I think that he is
a very, very independent and confident and really did like
having his own life after high school and going away
(05:09):
for college and wanted to you know, there are a
lot of things that I think with Joe wanting us
to be there all the time, it's okay that Jacob
was the opposite. I just feel guilty, like we just
do your own guilty. Yeah, yeah, like I didn't go
enough and I haven't spent enough time.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Have you ever had that conversation with Jacob.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Like I think I've said to him before that I
feel guilty that we're not there a lot, and he's like, oh,
it's fine, but you know, and then I I just
I guess I'm used to Joe always saying come come, come, come, come,
come see me. We're not going to see me, We're
not going to see me, And with Jacob, it's just
so different. And Luke too, to be fair, like Luke
is in his fraternity life, you know, so he's always
(05:58):
got something going on with that, and you want them
to be independent too, you know, do you think.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
We screwed up the Joe thing? And the reason why
Joe is the way he is was that we did
go visit more often.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Maybe I don't think I screwed him up, but I
think that he or I said, we we fostered it.
You know, we probably should have been a little bit
more like it's a you know, wait a little bit.
I think he definitely, out of all three, was homesick quicker,
but also you know, he had his brothers at home. Yeah,
(06:34):
you know, and it was just a little bit different.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I uh, well, i'd love if and I know Jacob
listens to this, and I'd love Jacob if you would
ever and I should probably initiate this because there are times,
and you and I have talked about this where we
both feel really guilty if we are visiting Joe down
in Florida, because it does take a lot more to
go visit Joe in Florida than it does to even
go to Chicago, and you know, do the drive, and
(07:00):
there are times where you feel like you don't want
any of your kids to feel like they're not the favorite, right,
you know, we want all to feel like everything's pretty equal.
Although Luke I went in for the dad's weekend and
albeit it wasn't the most fun thing for me because
at the end of the day, I ended up getting
way wasted. I should not have. It was bad and
(07:22):
hurt myself. But he has always lent himself to when
you come visit him. He doesn't necessarily do like how
Joe did it, where Joe would come sleep at the
hotel with us. Like it's tough to even go see
the Luke sometimes, like I picked him up at his
(07:46):
fraternity house. We went and grabbed him something to eat,
and then we went out to the bars, and he
wanted to be with his friends right away to the
other dads like it was not he did not want
one on one time.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I want to bother you.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Uh, it doesn't bother me because I know I had
Jacob kind of like that. So I think Jacob prepared
me for how Luke is broke. But I also, you know,
like I wanted to spend more time one on one
time with just him. I reking able to communicate that,
but I wanted. What I want to do is I
want to do the whole. This is something I never
(08:23):
got to do with my parents, but I saw them
do with my older siblings when they went away to college.
They would go visit them. They'd take them in their
friends on a dinner, for a dinner, they'd go shopping
for them, you know, buying things that they needed for
their house.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Done that with the older two, done that with.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Liz, who doesn't do that with us?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
No, so, but we've done that with the older two.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So we went to Chicago to visit Jacob. And this
is Jacob's birthday. So happy birthday, Jacob birthday, birthday, shout out.
You have to pay for the advertisement of this one. Jacob.
I did not know how old Jacob was until he
told me how old he was. I thought, for some reason,
Jacob was only twenty five, twenty six. He's twenty seven, Okay,
(09:03):
for some reason I mess up. I know Luke's burn
how old Luke is because the way that he was
born five oh five oh five, right, And for some
reason that was easy to remember.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
What year was Jacob born.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Jacob was born in nineteen ninety five, No, ninety six, No, No,
he was born ninety so.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Joe was born in ninety five.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Joe was born ninety five. Jacob was born ninety seven,
ninety eight, ninety.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Oh, you were there pretty sure, you were there.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Okay, I tried to do the math. I thought it
was from some rats, and I thought that he and
Joe were just a couple, like a year apart. But
there are a couple of years apart.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Now well there're two and a half years apart.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah. God, we waited that long to have another kid. Well,
I mean nowadays, it wouldn't be that way. You'd be
pumping them out like crazy, right because we'd be waiting
because we were so young at.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
The time that we are super young.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So we went to go and visit him, and we
had kind of a It was kind of a messy weekend.
It was fun, yet it was also tense because I
got into it a little bit with Luke and I
was upset with Luke about not listening to me. You know,
(10:24):
he was he was doing his thing and wasn't listening
to me. He's so used to being free of any
kind of rules while he's away at college, and then
when you're together, he feels like he can still just
kind of do those things. And maybe I'm overly protective
or not, but I don't know if I want to
be hanging out with my son and having my son
(10:46):
feeling like he can pretty much do whatever he wants.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Well, you shouldn't contribute to it. Well you if you're
buying him drinks and you are, you don't like at
the rate that he's drinking them, or then don't buy
them for him. But you started it off by buying
him a drink and handing it to him. And then
this is before we went to dinner dinner, and then
(11:12):
you continued to let him drink. And then when we
went to dinner, he still was drinking more and he
did not ask he was he continual was being served,
and it as any kid gets when they are drinking,
(11:34):
he got a little lippy and obnoxious, and then didn't
think that he was a little drunk, and there was
just a tense I.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Felt bad because I was angry about that, and you
brought up something really interesting because I was not drinking
at all. So you said that you wondered if a
I me not drinking exacerbated my feelings towards him doing it. Yeah,
And I think the thing that bothered me the most
was the fact that I haven't been parenting him while
(12:07):
he's away at school, like I haven't been on top
of him like I always was. When he was home
for the summer, or even home when he was in
high school, and he kind of I felt like he
discounted my saying hey, no, no more right, and even
though a waiter brought him another drink, right, he should
have said no, no, I'm sorry, like I want.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
But he's also the child. Well you wanted him to
step up and make an adult decision, but he's also
a child who while he is away right now, his
lifestyle is they drink a lot and they're so his
tolerance is a lot higher than most you know, or
but it's normal. Yeah, and he wasn't acting completely obnoxious
(12:53):
like I just think that there are points where we
have to realize that what age he's at, and if
we want rules that are set, then we need to
discuss those rules before and you know, say hey, when
we say no, enough is enough, No enough is enough,
even if someone walks up to you and gives you
another drink. No.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Our friends have, you know, are of all shapes and sizes.
We have friends that you know party with their kids,
and then we have friends like I had a friend
of mine, Jeff, who basically said that he thought it
was as nine that I went for dad's day and
drank with Luke Like he said, I would never drink
(13:36):
with my dad's will I drink. Are we doing it wrong?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
No?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I think everyone does what they want to do on
their own. Listen, before the boys went away to college,
we sat them down at our house and made them
drink so they could as I'm sure they were drinking
in high school anyway, but we wanted them to like
get to the point of just to know your limit
right before you go.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, but what do you think about going up parents
weekend and having drinks and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I think that's fine and to each his own, though,
you know, I respect everyone else's parenting choices and decisions.
Whatever they choose to do is that's why you're a parent.
You can make your own rules and your own choices.
I don't know that I would sit there and tell someone.
Why did he say that you're doing it wrong?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well? He when he and I had conversation about me
hurting myself, which, for those that didn't hear it, I
fell downstairs and I was way too drunk to be
even a parent that day. I should have honestly been
I should have been cut off way before that, and
we hadn't eaten all the whole day, or you know,
(14:44):
I hadn't eaten the.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Whole day and it was an accident.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, but he just said that he wasn't trying to
be judgmental as much as he said, you know what,
I still think it's asked, you know, to do it.
Like when he said it that way, I thought, Okay,
I respect your opinion on that, and you're right, because
I don't think I would have done that with my dad,
Like I don't think I could see myself drinking with
my dad. And I think the generations are different. Also,
(15:09):
I think Jeff's a different generation than I am. He's
the generation just probably above me. And I think that
the way that he thinks is more so towards how
our parents or my parents felt, and maybe I'm of
the generation family what their kids doing.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
In my family when we were growing up, my family
is Italian, we would sit down on Sunday dinners and
we were offered wine every Sunday, not to get drunk,
but we were allowed to have a glass of wine,
red wine with dinner. Young it wasn't you know, oh
you want some wine, have some wine. It was never
like now they weren't. You know, you can have another
(15:53):
and another and another, but it was not frowned upon.
And I don't I don't know. That was not something
that I passed along with the boys. But I don't
think that it's wrong to go and have some drinks
with your kids. Had you not fallen down the stairs,
(16:15):
by the way, it would have been a total different story,
and it wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Well, I think that definitely changed my opinion on drinking.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
You wouldn't have this whole thing about drinking with him
because you would have had a great time. Because up
until that moment falling, you had a great time, I know.
And so you missed a step and you slid down
the stairs, right, and that really yeah, I mean I
but again, you weren't drinking water. I'm sure you weren't
(16:46):
eating all day. I mean, so for me, for Mom's Day,
we started off the day at the house and the Pledges,
you know, got us some sandwiches which I can't partake
because it's gluten in it, and then they made mimosas
for the moms and we all sat around and talked
(17:07):
and had some mimosas. Then we which I'm not a
good champagne girl, so I had and I knew that
they were having mimosas, so I brought my own liquor,
Like there were some moms that we all brought our
own stuff in the yetti. So I was just drinking
my own stuff. And then we went to a bar
where the boys had rented out the bar for the day,
(17:28):
and they brought in pizza and more gluten. I couldn't
have that either, But I.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Wasn't similar situation.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I wasn't thinking, and I had two beers which has gluten,
and we were having fun and just you know, I
wasn't drunk. I was, but then I realized when we
left to eat, my stomach was killing me. I ended
up at the hotel room like doubled over because the
(17:56):
gluten and the beer, Like I just didn't And I
missed out on a fun night with him. Yeah, because
all the mom's met up and they all went out
with the boys, and so I missed out on So
I have a different regret regret that you have.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
But and I think my regret is exactly that. I
think it's to spend the entire night.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, but I just think that it's you know, knowing
your limits and knowing you know you can. I think
it's foolish, in my opinion, for you to say I'm
never drinking again. I'm not gonna do.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Like.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I get it right now, because you're in pain and
you're dealing with, you know, some issues from the fall.
So I get It's like, you know, when you drink
and throw up all night and you swear you're never
gonna drink again, and then two weeks later or even
the next day, you're drinking. Yeah, so I think that,
you know, I think that you can drink again with him,
(18:51):
but it's Dad's Day, but it's not. You don't have
to drink as much. And then maybe you have snacks
with you, Like That's what I'm going to do next
year for Mom's Day.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Just make sure you're eating I and.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Watch you feel.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I do fear a little bit of summertime with him
coming home from school, because I think he's been so
used to not having us there. Sure that even though
he is nineteen, going to be twenty years old when
he comes home from school, because he'll be celebrating a
birthday before then, it's still got to be that he
respects our rules. And I think we do have to
(19:23):
have certain rules.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Here's the thing, though, the rules have to be communicated
because that's.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
The problem I think we have in our family. That
is a huge.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Problem with us. Yeah, with us, we you and I
will say, Okay, this is what we want him to do,
this is what we expect, but then it's never communicated.
And also, listen, there's growing pains when they come home,
especially you know that first summer, like last summer, and
he worked like a dog last summer, so he was
either at work with his girlfriend. You know, those are
(19:54):
the only two places really like, we barely saw him
last summer because he worked so much. And we just
need to say, this is what we expect of you.
And we did that last summer. We told them, you
need to be home by this time, and he was. Yeah,
he was really good about respecting the rules. I think
that also part of it too, is letting go a
(20:19):
little bit and giving him a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Well, it's our baby. I think that's the hardest part
for me for sure.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well it was hard for me with all of them.
But also they're given the full rope when you let
them go away to college, right, so they're not under
our roof and so they're making their own rules or
doing their own thing. The thing for what I how
I try to word it with him, is it's just
(20:46):
respect because at this point, yes, we are your parents,
but we're also your roommates at this point, at some point,
like you have to realize you can't come in at
three point thirty in the morning when dad is getting
up for work, like you have to share respect.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, just you know, I'm going to get into it.
Are you okay with this? It's going to be the
best part of the podcast. Probably You and I got
into a huge fight before this. I said something to
you that you should I tell the whole story.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I don't think we need to get into the team.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Okay, do you no? But maybe we'll get into it
in the next podcast full fledged. But let me talk
about this part of it. It got us into a
fight with each other to where things were said and
then this comes back again in our relationship where I
have said to you, you know, maybe we're just not
(21:42):
you know, this is always seems like it's our every
I don't even know how long it goes time frame
where all of a sudden we get into an argument
with each other and then I throw out the you
know what, maybe just we're just not going to be
happy together, maybe you know, or at a point right
now in our lives where maybe we have to look
(22:03):
at what.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
We're going to die soon. You're going to die soon?
Should we be together?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah? And I said that to you, And we went
the entire ride from East Lansing to West Bloomfield our
seventeen minutes and twenty two seconds, and did not say
one word to reach at.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
The beginning because I refused to fight with you in
front of the kid in front of Louke. So the
second he got out of the car, but.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
We bring us. The fight was over with by the
time that we got to Okamus.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
So yeah, we were still on campus and we stopped talking.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
To it, and we did not speak the entire ride home.
When you're in a car with somebody and you don't
speak the entire time ride home and you're listening to
your music because you had control of the aux court,
I ended up putting my AirPods on, and I actually
have my AirPods on, just listening to like things on
(23:02):
Instagram and TikTok. And then finally I take my AirPods
out when I took the AirPods out. You completely shut
the radio off. You were done listening to music. It's
almost kind of like, I don't know if you were wanting.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
To at the end of the right Yeah, yeah, I
don't know if.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You were wanting to just be in complete silence or engage.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I did not want to engage.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, no, tell me, Like, as far as you know
how your first off, we were able to come together
when we got home and discuss it. It was not
a great discussion, but it was a good one.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
It was over an hour long. Yeah, pretty intense.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
And I think the next podcast this is a great
one to lead up to because I think maybe we
do talk about this, because I think that this is
a podcast where we try to talk about our relationship.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And we talked all the details of every fight, Like
I think that there are some things that I like
to keep close to heart, like no one needs to
know all the nitty gritty feelings were hurt, things were said.
I think that what can come of this is that
they are the same patterns that we set as far
(24:11):
as like when we try to work them out, like
when there is an argument and I am I guess
what I would say is I don't fight with words.
I don't weaponize my words where I feel that that
gets happened. You you know my Achilles, and you can
(24:33):
hit it with words. And I was not taught and
I'm not saying that you were taught this way to fight,
but my parents never verbally fought in front of me
growing up, So I never saw fight and then conflict resolution.
So now during the ten years where I mean there
(24:57):
were because it was or seven, however many years it
was really really bad between us, we would not physic like,
we would not verbally fight with each other. Although the
boys clearly they have said they could hear it and
they they're not done. They knew what was going on.
I would try to not fight in front of them
just because I just you know, I was never taught
(25:19):
that that was how you did it. But I think
with our cycle is that there there's a fight that happens,
and then words are said, threats are made, and then
it's like trying to okay, because I I am just
(25:39):
done with the and I said to you, can we
just not not even not say the word divorce? But
can we not when we're fighting? Does it always have
to go back to I'm like how I always say
when you fight in the sandbox, I'm taking all my
toys and I'm going home, because it's all or nothing.
(26:00):
You and I get you are emotional at that point,
and it's all or nothing. And when we're upset, we
say things that we don't mean. And but and I
say things too that I don't mean. So I don't
want people to think that I don't. I'm like stating here,
this innocent girl in a corner, because you're using words.
(26:24):
I just don't fight that way. I don't use hurtful
words fighting when we fight, I'd rather talk about it
and say, you know, this is what's going on, and
this is why I feel this way. And also I
think that you have, and I told you this earlier,
you have a Disney and Hallmark idea of what marriage
(26:47):
should be, whereas I think people fight and there's gonna
be great times, and there's gonna be bad times, there's
gonna be mundane times, and there's gonna be fun times,
and that's just part of the cycle. And I think
when there's a fight or if it's not great, you
think it's time to pack up and get out. I'm
(27:10):
going to die soon, you're going to die soon. We
probably should just go find other people or I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You know, well, I always wonder how other couples fight,
Like I always wondered about that, because we have friends
of ours that get into one bad situation and they
jump out of their relationship, like we've had that happen
to us. Then we have friends of ours who have
pattern after pattern after pattern of what I would consider
(27:37):
to be not a great marriage, and it takes them
a little bit of time and then they finally decide
that they're going to get out of the relationship. And
I think that we are kind of in this where
part of me thinks at times that you are and
(28:00):
I'm not in this soulmates. I don't believe in this
soul maate thing I used to think about soulmates. I
think you and I have history, and I think that
we found each other at a time of our lives
where both of us I think both needed each other.
And I think that we fell in love and marriage
was something really quick that we did in probably not
(28:22):
knowing what it was. And then as time went by,
we created these great kids and we created a history
with each other that has been great and also it
has been not so great. And I think that when
I look at our relationship and I think of all
the years that I've had with you, my biggest issue
that I would have of why I could never want
(28:45):
to get divorced from you is I wouldn't be able
to look over at whoever I was next to, if
there was somebody next to me and say remember this
or you know, oh my god, that would like we
had that this weekend too, like we talk and even
on this podcast, we talked about Joe going away to
college and Jake going away to college. But then there
(29:08):
are also times where and I feel this way sometimes
with my job where I sit there and I think, God,
Detroit was such a great place to have a career
for as long as I've had a career, and we
were able to create some great memories work wise, but
what if? And there are times where I look at
(29:28):
our relationship and I sit there and I think, am
I really right for you? Like? Are you meant to
be with me? And because we know each other's flaws,
we also know each other's you know what what makes
us better because of each other? And I sit there
and I wonder, you know, am I right, am I
(29:52):
am I the right person to be with you? You know,
do I make you happy? And honestly, do you make
me happy?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Okay, I was just gonna say, I think you need
to re word that because clearly I think it's you know,
is she the right person for me? Because I think
that that's where it stems from. And I think it's
okay for you to say that. I mean, you should
be honest, you know. I think you try to put
it on me because you don't want to look like
(30:19):
the bad person when you can say, you know, is
she the right person for me? And because I said
this to you earlier, I don't jump to the thought
of divorce anymore. Like I just I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I don't and and I do that, and it's a
huge mistake. And I don't know if i'd love to have.
You know, people who are listening to this dm us
and tell us if they have a relationship that's like that.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Well, I think it is common. Here's the thing. We
are nothing special in a relationship world, by the way,
because everyone has these issues and more or less, you know,
like I I think I think that you are in
a job also where you have a lot of people
that come in and out of your life, and you compare,
(31:06):
whether you realize we all compare, So I think that
you're comparing. Like you said to me, I see women
who fawn over their husbands, and you know, I don't
have that. Okay, Well, what's going on behind closed doors
between them? And to say wives plural, I have never
seen one woman bend over backwards who has been in
(31:29):
a real marriage and real relationship fonnd over her husband,
because guess what, there's real life in there. There are
hurts on both sides. There are things that have along
your road that have put you to where you are.
And by the way, the people that are fawning over
each other, there's probably shit that just happened right before that.
(31:50):
They have to do that because either they're scared their
relationship is going to break up or they're kissing each
other's ass like and it won't last. And also, I
don't care. I don't care what's going on in someone
else's relationship because I have enough shit on my plate
that I have to worry. And so when I see
people and they seem like they're in a happy relationship,
(32:11):
great good for them, you know, And buckle up, sir
and ma'am, or sir and SIRR or me and ma'am,
because shit will hit the fan, you know, And I
hope that you have what it takes to get through it.
And if you don't, that's okay too. But it's like,
I just think that comparison comes in with us a lot,
and whether you realize it or not, because you do
(32:34):
bring it up, you'll bring in other people into the
discussion and you'll say, you know, I see this happening,
like you said today, these women fawning over their husbands,
and you don't do that with me. Well, we have
had our own road that we've been on where there
(32:56):
has been a lot of bumps caused by both of
them us and a lot of potholes. And so I
can only do what I can and be who I
am today. And if it's not good enough for you
at that moment, you can say to me, hey, you
know what I need from you today? I need this
from you and if I can give it.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
If I.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Well listen to what I'm going to say. If I
can give it, I'll give it. But if I can't
that day, then I think you need to say, okay,
can we try again tomorrow, because sometimes, you know, thirty
two years is a long time. So on both sides,
there are things that we both have done to each
other that have made us who we are in our
(33:39):
relationship today. Right, So I hold on to a lot
of hurt, and it's really hard for me to let
go of some hurt by the way that was first
cut into me from my childhood. But then it's still
a scab that sometimes gets scraped. Sometimes it gets scraped
really really other times it's just like a little tap
(34:02):
and it's like oof that touches the sore spot with me.
But when it cuts me really deep, then it takes
it's going to take time for me to come around,
and vice versa. You know, I am not perfect, and
I know that there are things that I have done
to hurt you, and I think that what we're not
(34:27):
good at and we should work at is saying, hey,
I need this from you today and if you can
give it, no great. If you can't, then let's circle
back on this later. But it has to be a
give and take. It can't just be a this is
what I need and this is what you have to
(34:47):
to prove you love me and this is what you know,
because relationship.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Is given take well, I think that that and you
hit the nail on the head. I don't think that
we do that enough in both cases where it's like, hey,
I'm strung today. You have you have done that a
little bit where you'll say to me, hey, I'm really
having a rough day to day. I'm gonna need you.
And when you do that, I'll you know that I
have and I know you have anytime that it's not
(35:13):
even and I'm not talking about relationship type stuff like
sexual or anything like that. I'm just talking about in general,
like hey, I'm physically worn out today or I'm not
feeling good. Can you be here for this?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
But and boy, this is such a good thing. I
think honestly, I'm glad that we did this on the podcast.
And you know, maybe we'll get into more coming up
on the next one. But I do think we talk
about comparison being the thief of joy, and I think
that a lot of the comparison like cars, for guys,
they see a guy driving a car and they're like, fuck,
(35:46):
I want that car, you know what I mean, And
you get excited, but you don't see the you know,
the how much it cost or how much insurance cost,
or the scratches and the dents and all the bruises
on it. Women it's other women on Instagram and their
pictures and what they look like and oh my god,
(36:06):
you know I'm not as beautiful as she is and
stuff like that. And relationships are like that sometimes with me,
like I see other relationships sometimes, And because we have
been together for thirty two years, and I look at
our life and thirty two years is a long.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Time, like a lifetime.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
It's a lifetime. And there are times where I wouldn't
give up any of this at all, like I would
be if you took if God took this away from
us today, I'd cry like I am right now, like
it makes me sad. But then there are also times
where I do start thinking about, you know, how much
(36:49):
longer do we have to live? And I know I
want to live with you for the rest of my life,
but we have to do a better job of saying, hey,
I need something to care.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Well, we have to do a better job of that.
But then also it's you know, I think that it's
not going to be perfect. It's not going to be
I think you have to accept that there's going to
be hard times and problems and fights that pop up
because that it's two imperfect people trying to live a
(37:25):
life together. And just because we've done it for thirty
two years, it does not mean that it's going to
be easier or easy, you know, like it just isn't.
And by the way, let's just say that we got
divorced or if one of us died. I think that,
you know, you could find love again with someone else
(37:46):
for sure, Like there it's.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Not and you could to for sure.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, absolutely, I don't believe in like there's only one
person for the rest of your life. I don't believe
in that. I think that that's that's a whole other
topic for another time. But but having said that, you know,
you start, it's going to be the same shit with
somebody new. It's the whole thing. Relationships are hard. You know,
(38:11):
choose your heart. If you're going to choose me or
choose our relationship, then that's the hard you're choosing. If
you think it's easier with somebody else, it's not going
to be. And you know you're more than welcome to
go try. By the way, because I'm not begging or
nailing you down to the ground to stay with me.
That's you know. But when you make a choice, then
(38:32):
you have to realize there's a shit that comes along
with it, you know. And I I would never say that,
oh we're gonna you know, everything is perfect and everything's
great and every because it's not and it won't be.
That's just life.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I don't want perfect, and I know you don't want perfect.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Well, I know that we'll never have perfect.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Because we'll never have perfect. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, it's just life. So either you buckle up and
really celebrate the good times and try hard to get
through the bad times because they're all coming, you know. Both.
And then there is the mundane, and there is that
which I think you suffer with a lot, when it's
just like nothing's happening. It's not great, it's not bad,
(39:19):
but it's just moving along a line. I think you
have a hard time with that, but I think just
realizing what it is and then you know, trying to
work on that too, because I can't solve all of
it for you. You can't solve all of it for me.
A lot of it is looking within belief and working
(39:39):
on yourself.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
I went to therapy my first few years because I
thought other people did wrong for me. And then the
therapy that I've done later in my life, I realize
it's about me, it's not about.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Growth comes from being uncomfortable and a lot about you know,
growing us, growing as people is a never ending thing too.
So in uncomfortable times, you can sit there and realize, Okay,
what can I do to make myself better that hopefully
will make the situation better? Not what can I do
(40:17):
to make you better? What can I do to make
myself better that in turn really will make the situation better.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
I would love to know from as we close. I'd
love to know from anybody that listened to this, you know,
about their relationship and their struggles, whether the relationship stayed
together or didn't stay together, and if any of this
hit a chord for you, because I do think that
(40:46):
you learn from others. Yeah, and I think that there's
a lot of times where I have, you know, learned
from the listener who says to us that they wish
they would have said this years ago, right, you know,
and I wouldn't look at people will say, oh my god,
I just love that you guys do what you do
(41:06):
I don't think you should look at what we do
as a model of things, but I do think that
we've been blessed that we've been able to be together
and stay together for thirty two years.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Well yeah, and there's multiple reasons for that. That yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I hope that Jacob's listening to this all the way through,
because I do want to know, does it bother you
that we don't come visit more? Because if so, I
will move to Chicago.
Welcome to the We Don't Podcast, starring husband and wife
Mojo from Mojo in the Morning and his better half Chelsea.
On this episode.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
On this episode of the what do we call this podcast?
It's been so long since we've done it, we don't
the we Don't podcast? We got a new one today,
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
We do? Finally?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Where have we been? And why have we not had
a new podcast in a while? We will explain coming
up during this episode.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Well, all right, all right, all right, without further delay,
here are Mojo and Chelsea.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hi, Chelse, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
My name is Tom. I don't know if you know me.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I do.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I'm the person that co hosts the wee Know podcasters. Yes,
so we have not had a podcast in a while.
What do you think it was? What is it? The
fact that you're You and I are never in the
same place.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
We're never in the same place. Yeah, it's been a
while since we've been and when we're in the same place,
we have so much catching up to do with life. Yeah,
so it's been a little difficult.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, I also think in we kind of have done
When people say, well, why have you guys not been
in the same place at the same time. You have
spent a lot of time down in Florida, yep. And
I've spent a lot of time here in Michigan. Yes,
And now you're back.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Now I'm back.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
And how was that for you?
Speaker 3 (01:41):
By the way, it was amazing. It was really good,
really really good. I loved it.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Do you ever annoy your son with the amount of
time that you spend with him?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I try not to spend it all with him, so
I don't think that he gets too annoyed and plus,
but he does. He's the one child that literally, if
he could crawl back up in my womb, he would
if I could give him the he he loves to.
He does not like to be alone, so he loves
to be with us and spend time with us.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Where he uh seems to like when you say, hey,
I'm going to come down and I'm going to be
visiting you for a couple of weeks or whatever it is,
he gets really excited about.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
That, very excited.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
We just got back from visiting Jacob in Chicago, and
we came in on a Friday, left on Sunday morning.
We saw him for dinner on Saturdayturday.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yeah, Well, we got in late Friday night. We picked
up Luke at Michigan State on the because he decided
last minute that he wanted to come with us, So
we got in later on Friday night, Friday evening, and
then Saturday we were out during the day because he
had plans on Saturday during the day Jacob did yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
And then playing Dungeons and Dragons.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I found out, well, that's and that was he had
planned that for a while. It was his birthday weekend
and that's what he had planned to do. And we
and then we had dinner Saturday night, which was nice,
and then we left on Sunday. You know, the difference
is when Joe was there for school, Joe would want
us to come all of the time and every weekend.
And I do feel a little bad because I feel
(03:17):
like we have not gone as much for Jacob. But
Jacob honestly doesn't say, hey, come visit me, or do
you want to come visit or I think you almost
feel like you're interrupting.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I would like Jacob, though, to speak up about that,
because I do feel sometimes we don't go see him enough. Yeah,
And honestly, we didn't really go see Luke a lot
during the school year. Either.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
No, and Luke is super close. Yeah, no, we only go. Yeah,
we go up for parents weekend. We went up for
I went up for Mom's day. You went up for
Dad's Day. I mean that's all. Yeah, we don't go
and see him either.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
And yeah, I wonder sometimes, how do you how what
is your perfect like? What if as far as kids
are concerned, Because Joe, like you said, wants to be
right up in your vagina again, well, I was just.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
In my womb. Let's say that he'd rather be back
in the belly.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I would like to be in your Okay, where do
you what do you like? What's what's the happy medium?
Do you ever feel when Jacob is not wanting like saying, hey,
I want you guys come visit or I'm going to
come back home and visit. Does that ever bother you
at all?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I miss him. I like what I love when they
are home, and I love being with them. But you know,
they're also all three different. They're just so different. Where again,
Joe loves Joe was like you, and he loves to
have people around. And when he's in his car, he
(04:49):
wants to be on the phone, and he's very he
doesn't like quiet and alone time. Jacob has always loved
quiet and alone time. And I think that he is
a very, very independent and confident and really did like
having his own life after high school and going away
(05:09):
for college and wanted to you know, there are a
lot of things that I think with Joe wanting us
to be there all the time, it's okay that Jacob
was the opposite. I just feel guilty, like we just
do your own guilty. Yeah, yeah, like I didn't go
enough and I haven't spent enough time.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Have you ever had that conversation with Jacob.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Like I think I've said to him before that I
feel guilty that we're not there a lot, and he's like, oh,
it's fine, but you know, and then I I just
I guess I'm used to Joe always saying come come, come, come, come,
come see me. We're not going to see me, We're
not going to see me, And with Jacob, it's just
so different. And Luke too, to be fair, like Luke
is in his fraternity life, you know, so he's always
(05:58):
got something going on with that, and you want them
to be independent too, you know, do you think.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
We screwed up the Joe thing? And the reason why
Joe is the way he is was that we did
go visit more often.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Maybe I don't think I screwed him up, but I
think that he or I said, we we fostered it.
You know, we probably should have been a little bit
more like it's a you know, wait a little bit.
I think he definitely, out of all three, was homesick quicker,
but also you know, he had his brothers at home. Yeah,
(06:34):
you know, and it was just a little bit different.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I uh, well, i'd love if and I know Jacob
listens to this, and I'd love Jacob if you would
ever and I should probably initiate this because there are times,
and you and I have talked about this where we
both feel really guilty if we are visiting Joe down
in Florida, because it does take a lot more to
go visit Joe in Florida than it does to even
go to Chicago, and you know, do the drive, and
(07:00):
there are times where you feel like you don't want
any of your kids to feel like they're not the favorite, right,
you know, we want all to feel like everything's pretty equal.
Although Luke I went in for the dad's weekend and
albeit it wasn't the most fun thing for me because
at the end of the day, I ended up getting
way wasted. I should not have. It was bad and
(07:22):
hurt myself. But he has always lent himself to when
you come visit him. He doesn't necessarily do like how
Joe did it, where Joe would come sleep at the
hotel with us. Like it's tough to even go see
the Luke sometimes, like I picked him up at his
(07:46):
fraternity house. We went and grabbed him something to eat,
and then we went out to the bars, and he
wanted to be with his friends right away to the
other dads like it was not he did not want
one on one time.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I want to bother you.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Uh, it doesn't bother me because I know I had
Jacob kind of like that. So I think Jacob prepared
me for how Luke is broke. But I also, you know,
like I wanted to spend more time one on one
time with just him. I reking able to communicate that,
but I wanted. What I want to do is I
want to do the whole. This is something I never
(08:23):
got to do with my parents, but I saw them
do with my older siblings when they went away to college.
They would go visit them. They'd take them in their
friends on a dinner, for a dinner, they'd go shopping
for them, you know, buying things that they needed for
their house.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Done that with the older two, done that with.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Liz, who doesn't do that with us?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
No, so, but we've done that with the older two.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So we went to Chicago to visit Jacob. And this
is Jacob's birthday. So happy birthday, Jacob birthday, birthday, shout out.
You have to pay for the advertisement of this one. Jacob.
I did not know how old Jacob was until he
told me how old he was. I thought, for some reason,
Jacob was only twenty five, twenty six. He's twenty seven, Okay,
(09:03):
for some reason I mess up. I know Luke's burn
how old Luke is because the way that he was
born five oh five oh five, right, And for some
reason that was easy to remember.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
What year was Jacob born.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Jacob was born in nineteen ninety five, No, ninety six, No, No,
he was born ninety so.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Joe was born in ninety five.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Joe was born ninety five. Jacob was born ninety seven,
ninety eight, ninety.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Oh, you were there pretty sure, you were there.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Okay, I tried to do the math. I thought it
was from some rats, and I thought that he and
Joe were just a couple, like a year apart. But
there are a couple of years apart.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Now well there're two and a half years apart.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah. God, we waited that long to have another kid. Well,
I mean nowadays, it wouldn't be that way. You'd be
pumping them out like crazy, right because we'd be waiting
because we were so young at.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
The time that we are super young.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So we went to go and visit him, and we
had kind of a It was kind of a messy weekend.
It was fun, yet it was also tense because I
got into it a little bit with Luke and I
was upset with Luke about not listening to me. You know,
(10:24):
he was he was doing his thing and wasn't listening
to me. He's so used to being free of any
kind of rules while he's away at college, and then
when you're together, he feels like he can still just
kind of do those things. And maybe I'm overly protective
or not, but I don't know if I want to
be hanging out with my son and having my son
(10:46):
feeling like he can pretty much do whatever he wants.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Well, you shouldn't contribute to it. Well you if you're
buying him drinks and you are, you don't like at
the rate that he's drinking them, or then don't buy
them for him. But you started it off by buying
him a drink and handing it to him. And then
this is before we went to dinner dinner, and then
(11:12):
you continued to let him drink. And then when we
went to dinner, he still was drinking more and he
did not ask he was he continual was being served,
and it as any kid gets when they are drinking,
(11:34):
he got a little lippy and obnoxious, and then didn't
think that he was a little drunk, and there was
just a tense I.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Felt bad because I was angry about that, and you
brought up something really interesting because I was not drinking
at all. So you said that you wondered if a
I me not drinking exacerbated my feelings towards him doing it. Yeah,
And I think the thing that bothered me the most
was the fact that I haven't been parenting him while
(12:07):
he's away at school, like I haven't been on top
of him like I always was. When he was home
for the summer, or even home when he was in
high school, and he kind of I felt like he
discounted my saying hey, no, no more right, and even
though a waiter brought him another drink, right, he should
have said no, no, I'm sorry, like I want.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
But he's also the child. Well you wanted him to
step up and make an adult decision, but he's also
a child who while he is away right now, his
lifestyle is they drink a lot and they're so his
tolerance is a lot higher than most you know, or
but it's normal. Yeah, and he wasn't acting completely obnoxious
(12:53):
like I just think that there are points where we
have to realize that what age he's at, and if
we want rules that are set, then we need to
discuss those rules before and you know, say hey, when
we say no, enough is enough, No enough is enough,
even if someone walks up to you and gives you
another drink. No.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Our friends have, you know, are of all shapes and sizes.
We have friends that you know party with their kids,
and then we have friends like I had a friend
of mine, Jeff, who basically said that he thought it
was as nine that I went for dad's day and
drank with Luke Like he said, I would never drink
(13:36):
with my dad's will I drink. Are we doing it wrong?
Speaker 1 (13:41):
No?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
I think everyone does what they want to do on
their own. Listen, before the boys went away to college,
we sat them down at our house and made them
drink so they could as I'm sure they were drinking
in high school anyway, but we wanted them to like
get to the point of just to know your limit
right before you go.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, but what do you think about going up parents
weekend and having drinks and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I think that's fine and to each his own, though,
you know, I respect everyone else's parenting choices and decisions.
Whatever they choose to do is that's why you're a parent.
You can make your own rules and your own choices.
I don't know that I would sit there and tell someone.
Why did he say that you're doing it wrong?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well? He when he and I had conversation about me
hurting myself, which, for those that didn't hear it, I
fell downstairs and I was way too drunk to be
even a parent that day. I should have honestly been
I should have been cut off way before that, and
we hadn't eaten all the whole day, or you know,
(14:44):
I hadn't eaten the.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Whole day and it was an accident.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, but he just said that he wasn't trying to
be judgmental as much as he said, you know what,
I still think it's asked, you know, to do it.
Like when he said it that way, I thought, Okay,
I respect your opinion on that, and you're right, because
I don't think I would have done that with my dad,
Like I don't think I could see myself drinking with
my dad. And I think the generations are different. Also,
(15:09):
I think Jeff's a different generation than I am. He's
the generation just probably above me. And I think that
the way that he thinks is more so towards how
our parents or my parents felt, and maybe I'm of
the generation family what their kids doing.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
In my family when we were growing up, my family
is Italian, we would sit down on Sunday dinners and
we were offered wine every Sunday, not to get drunk,
but we were allowed to have a glass of wine,
red wine with dinner. Young it wasn't you know, oh
you want some wine, have some wine. It was never
like now they weren't. You know, you can have another
(15:53):
and another and another, but it was not frowned upon.
And I don't I don't know. That was not something
that I passed along with the boys. But I don't
think that it's wrong to go and have some drinks
with your kids. Had you not fallen down the stairs,
(16:15):
by the way, it would have been a total different story,
and it wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Well, I think that definitely changed my opinion on drinking.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
You wouldn't have this whole thing about drinking with him
because you would have had a great time. Because up
until that moment falling, you had a great time, I know.
And so you missed a step and you slid down
the stairs, right, and that really yeah, I mean I
but again, you weren't drinking water. I'm sure you weren't
(16:46):
eating all day. I mean, so for me, for Mom's Day,
we started off the day at the house and the Pledges,
you know, got us some sandwiches which I can't partake
because it's gluten in it, and then they made mimosas
for the moms and we all sat around and talked
(17:07):
and had some mimosas. Then we which I'm not a
good champagne girl, so I had and I knew that
they were having mimosas, so I brought my own liquor,
Like there were some moms that we all brought our
own stuff in the yetti. So I was just drinking
my own stuff. And then we went to a bar
where the boys had rented out the bar for the day,
(17:28):
and they brought in pizza and more gluten. I couldn't
have that either, But I.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Wasn't similar situation.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
I wasn't thinking, and I had two beers which has gluten,
and we were having fun and just you know, I
wasn't drunk. I was, but then I realized when we
left to eat, my stomach was killing me. I ended
up at the hotel room like doubled over because the
(17:56):
gluten and the beer, Like I just didn't And I
missed out on a fun night with him. Yeah, because
all the mom's met up and they all went out
with the boys, and so I missed out on So
I have a different regret regret that you have.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
But and I think my regret is exactly that. I
think it's to spend the entire night.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, but I just think that it's you know, knowing
your limits and knowing you know you can. I think
it's foolish, in my opinion, for you to say I'm
never drinking again. I'm not gonna do.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Like.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I get it right now, because you're in pain and
you're dealing with, you know, some issues from the fall.
So I get It's like, you know, when you drink
and throw up all night and you swear you're never
gonna drink again, and then two weeks later or even
the next day, you're drinking. Yeah, so I think that,
you know, I think that you can drink again with him,
(18:51):
but it's Dad's Day, but it's not. You don't have
to drink as much. And then maybe you have snacks
with you, Like That's what I'm going to do next
year for Mom's Day.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Just make sure you're eating I and.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Watch you feel.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I do fear a little bit of summertime with him
coming home from school, because I think he's been so
used to not having us there. Sure that even though
he is nineteen, going to be twenty years old when
he comes home from school, because he'll be celebrating a
birthday before then, it's still got to be that he
respects our rules. And I think we do have to
(19:23):
have certain rules.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Here's the thing, though, the rules have to be communicated
because that's.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
The problem I think we have in our family. That
is a huge.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Problem with us. Yeah, with us, we you and I
will say, Okay, this is what we want him to do,
this is what we expect, but then it's never communicated.
And also, listen, there's growing pains when they come home,
especially you know that first summer, like last summer, and
he worked like a dog last summer, so he was
either at work with his girlfriend. You know, those are
(19:54):
the only two places really like, we barely saw him
last summer because he worked so much. And we just
need to say, this is what we expect of you.
And we did that last summer. We told them, you
need to be home by this time, and he was. Yeah,
he was really good about respecting the rules. I think
that also part of it too, is letting go a
(20:19):
little bit and giving him a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Well, it's our baby. I think that's the hardest part
for me for sure.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well it was hard for me with all of them.
But also they're given the full rope when you let
them go away to college, right, so they're not under
our roof and so they're making their own rules or
doing their own thing. The thing for what I how
I try to word it with him, is it's just
(20:46):
respect because at this point, yes, we are your parents,
but we're also your roommates at this point, at some point,
like you have to realize you can't come in at
three point thirty in the morning when dad is getting
up for work, like you have to share respect.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, just you know, I'm going to get into it.
Are you okay with this? It's going to be the
best part of the podcast. Probably You and I got
into a huge fight before this. I said something to
you that you should I tell the whole story.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I don't think we need to get into the team.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Okay, do you no? But maybe we'll get into it
in the next podcast full fledged. But let me talk
about this part of it. It got us into a
fight with each other to where things were said and
then this comes back again in our relationship where I
have said to you, you know, maybe we're just not
(21:42):
you know, this is always seems like it's our every
I don't even know how long it goes time frame
where all of a sudden we get into an argument
with each other and then I throw out the you
know what, maybe just we're just not going to be
happy together, maybe you know, or at a point right
now in our lives where maybe we have to look
(22:03):
at what.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
We're going to die soon. You're going to die soon?
Should we be together?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah? And I said that to you, And we went
the entire ride from East Lansing to West Bloomfield our
seventeen minutes and twenty two seconds, and did not say
one word to reach at.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
The beginning because I refused to fight with you in
front of the kid in front of Louke. So the
second he got out of the car, but.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
We bring us. The fight was over with by the
time that we got to Okamus.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
So yeah, we were still on campus and we stopped talking.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
To it, and we did not speak the entire ride home.
When you're in a car with somebody and you don't
speak the entire time ride home and you're listening to
your music because you had control of the aux court,
I ended up putting my AirPods on, and I actually
have my AirPods on, just listening to like things on
(23:02):
Instagram and TikTok. And then finally I take my AirPods
out when I took the AirPods out. You completely shut
the radio off. You were done listening to music. It's
almost kind of like, I don't know if you were wanting.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
To at the end of the right Yeah, yeah, I
don't know if.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You were wanting to just be in complete silence or engage.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I did not want to engage.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, no, tell me, Like, as far as you know
how your first off, we were able to come together
when we got home and discuss it. It was not
a great discussion, but it was a good one.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
It was over an hour long. Yeah, pretty intense.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
And I think the next podcast this is a great
one to lead up to because I think maybe we
do talk about this, because I think that this is
a podcast where we try to talk about our relationship.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And we talked all the details of every fight, Like
I think that there are some things that I like
to keep close to heart, like no one needs to
know all the nitty gritty feelings were hurt, things were said.
I think that what can come of this is that
they are the same patterns that we set as far
(24:11):
as like when we try to work them out, like
when there is an argument and I am I guess
what I would say is I don't fight with words.
I don't weaponize my words where I feel that that
gets happened. You you know my Achilles, and you can
(24:33):
hit it with words. And I was not taught and
I'm not saying that you were taught this way to fight,
but my parents never verbally fought in front of me
growing up, So I never saw fight and then conflict resolution.
So now during the ten years where I mean there
(24:57):
were because it was or seven, however many years it
was really really bad between us, we would not physic like,
we would not verbally fight with each other. Although the
boys clearly they have said they could hear it and
they they're not done. They knew what was going on.
I would try to not fight in front of them
just because I just you know, I was never taught
(25:19):
that that was how you did it. But I think
with our cycle is that there there's a fight that happens,
and then words are said, threats are made, and then
it's like trying to okay, because I I am just
(25:39):
done with the and I said to you, can we
just not not even not say the word divorce? But
can we not when we're fighting? Does it always have
to go back to I'm like how I always say
when you fight in the sandbox, I'm taking all my
toys and I'm going home, because it's all or nothing.
(26:00):
You and I get you are emotional at that point,
and it's all or nothing. And when we're upset, we
say things that we don't mean. And but and I
say things too that I don't mean. So I don't
want people to think that I don't. I'm like stating here,
this innocent girl in a corner, because you're using words.
(26:24):
I just don't fight that way. I don't use hurtful
words fighting when we fight, I'd rather talk about it
and say, you know, this is what's going on, and
this is why I feel this way. And also I
think that you have, and I told you this earlier,
you have a Disney and Hallmark idea of what marriage
(26:47):
should be, whereas I think people fight and there's gonna
be great times, and there's gonna be bad times, there's
gonna be mundane times, and there's gonna be fun times,
and that's just part of the cycle. And I think
when there's a fight or if it's not great, you
think it's time to pack up and get out. I'm
(27:10):
going to die soon, you're going to die soon. We
probably should just go find other people or I don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
You know, well, I always wonder how other couples fight,
Like I always wondered about that, because we have friends
of ours that get into one bad situation and they
jump out of their relationship, like we've had that happen
to us. Then we have friends of ours who have
pattern after pattern after pattern of what I would consider
(27:37):
to be not a great marriage, and it takes them
a little bit of time and then they finally decide
that they're going to get out of the relationship. And
I think that we are kind of in this where
part of me thinks at times that you are and
(28:00):
I'm not in this soulmates. I don't believe in this
soul maate thing I used to think about soulmates. I
think you and I have history, and I think that
we found each other at a time of our lives
where both of us I think both needed each other.
And I think that we fell in love and marriage
was something really quick that we did in probably not
(28:22):
knowing what it was. And then as time went by,
we created these great kids and we created a history
with each other that has been great and also it
has been not so great. And I think that when
I look at our relationship and I think of all
the years that I've had with you, my biggest issue
that I would have of why I could never want
(28:45):
to get divorced from you is I wouldn't be able
to look over at whoever I was next to, if
there was somebody next to me and say remember this
or you know, oh my god, that would like we
had that this weekend too, like we talk and even
on this podcast, we talked about Joe going away to
college and Jake going away to college. But then there
(29:08):
are also times where and I feel this way sometimes
with my job where I sit there and I think, God,
Detroit was such a great place to have a career
for as long as I've had a career, and we
were able to create some great memories work wise, but
what if? And there are times where I look at
(29:28):
our relationship and I sit there and I think, am
I really right for you? Like? Are you meant to
be with me? And because we know each other's flaws,
we also know each other's you know what what makes
us better because of each other? And I sit there
and I wonder, you know, am I right, am I
(29:52):
am I the right person to be with you? You know,
do I make you happy? And honestly, do you make
me happy?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Okay, I was just gonna say, I think you need
to re word that because clearly I think it's you know,
is she the right person for me? Because I think
that that's where it stems from. And I think it's
okay for you to say that. I mean, you should
be honest, you know. I think you try to put
it on me because you don't want to look like
(30:19):
the bad person when you can say, you know, is
she the right person for me? And because I said
this to you earlier, I don't jump to the thought
of divorce anymore. Like I just I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I don't and and I do that, and it's a
huge mistake. And I don't know if i'd love to have.
You know, people who are listening to this dm us
and tell us if they have a relationship that's like that.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
Well, I think it is common. Here's the thing. We
are nothing special in a relationship world, by the way,
because everyone has these issues and more or less, you know,
like I I think I think that you are in
a job also where you have a lot of people
that come in and out of your life, and you compare,
(31:06):
whether you realize we all compare, So I think that
you're comparing. Like you said to me, I see women
who fawn over their husbands, and you know, I don't
have that. Okay, Well, what's going on behind closed doors
between them? And to say wives plural, I have never
seen one woman bend over backwards who has been in
(31:29):
a real marriage and real relationship fonnd over her husband,
because guess what, there's real life in there. There are
hurts on both sides. There are things that have along
your road that have put you to where you are.
And by the way, the people that are fawning over
each other, there's probably shit that just happened right before that.
(31:50):
They have to do that because either they're scared their
relationship is going to break up or they're kissing each
other's ass like and it won't last. And also, I
don't care. I don't care what's going on in someone
else's relationship because I have enough shit on my plate
that I have to worry. And so when I see
people and they seem like they're in a happy relationship,
(32:11):
great good for them, you know, And buckle up, sir
and ma'am, or sir and SIRR or me and ma'am,
because shit will hit the fan, you know, And I
hope that you have what it takes to get through it.
And if you don't, that's okay too. But it's like,
I just think that comparison comes in with us a lot,
and whether you realize it or not, because you do
(32:34):
bring it up, you'll bring in other people into the
discussion and you'll say, you know, I see this happening,
like you said today, these women fawning over their husbands,
and you don't do that with me. Well, we have
had our own road that we've been on where there
(32:56):
has been a lot of bumps caused by both of
them us and a lot of potholes. And so I
can only do what I can and be who I
am today. And if it's not good enough for you
at that moment, you can say to me, hey, you
know what I need from you today? I need this
from you and if I can give it.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
If I.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Well listen to what I'm going to say. If I
can give it, I'll give it. But if I can't
that day, then I think you need to say, okay,
can we try again tomorrow, because sometimes, you know, thirty
two years is a long time. So on both sides,
there are things that we both have done to each
other that have made us who we are in our
(33:39):
relationship today. Right, So I hold on to a lot
of hurt, and it's really hard for me to let
go of some hurt by the way that was first
cut into me from my childhood. But then it's still
a scab that sometimes gets scraped. Sometimes it gets scraped
really really other times it's just like a little tap
(34:02):
and it's like oof that touches the sore spot with me.
But when it cuts me really deep, then it takes
it's going to take time for me to come around,
and vice versa. You know, I am not perfect, and
I know that there are things that I have done
to hurt you, and I think that what we're not
(34:27):
good at and we should work at is saying, hey,
I need this from you today and if you can
give it, no great. If you can't, then let's circle
back on this later. But it has to be a
give and take. It can't just be a this is
what I need and this is what you have to
(34:47):
to prove you love me and this is what you know,
because relationship.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Is given take well, I think that that and you
hit the nail on the head. I don't think that
we do that enough in both cases where it's like, hey,
I'm strung today. You have you have done that a
little bit where you'll say to me, hey, I'm really
having a rough day to day. I'm gonna need you.
And when you do that, I'll you know that I
have and I know you have anytime that it's not
(35:13):
even and I'm not talking about relationship type stuff like
sexual or anything like that. I'm just talking about in general,
like hey, I'm physically worn out today or I'm not
feeling good. Can you be here for this?
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
But and boy, this is such a good thing. I
think honestly, I'm glad that we did this on the podcast.
And you know, maybe we'll get into more coming up
on the next one. But I do think we talk
about comparison being the thief of joy, and I think
that a lot of the comparison like cars, for guys,
they see a guy driving a car and they're like, fuck,
(35:46):
I want that car, you know what I mean, And
you get excited, but you don't see the you know,
the how much it cost or how much insurance cost,
or the scratches and the dents and all the bruises
on it. Women it's other women on Instagram and their
pictures and what they look like and oh my god,
(36:06):
you know I'm not as beautiful as she is and
stuff like that. And relationships are like that sometimes with me,
like I see other relationships sometimes, And because we have
been together for thirty two years, and I look at
our life and thirty two years is a long.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Time, like a lifetime.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
It's a lifetime. And there are times where I wouldn't
give up any of this at all, like I would
be if you took if God took this away from
us today, I'd cry like I am right now, like
it makes me sad. But then there are also times
where I do start thinking about, you know, how much
(36:49):
longer do we have to live? And I know I
want to live with you for the rest of my life,
but we have to do a better job of saying, hey,
I need something to care.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Well, we have to do a better job of that.
But then also it's you know, I think that it's
not going to be perfect. It's not going to be
I think you have to accept that there's going to
be hard times and problems and fights that pop up
because that it's two imperfect people trying to live a
(37:25):
life together. And just because we've done it for thirty
two years, it does not mean that it's going to
be easier or easy, you know, like it just isn't.
And by the way, let's just say that we got
divorced or if one of us died. I think that,
you know, you could find love again with someone else
(37:46):
for sure, Like there it's.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Not and you could to for sure.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, absolutely, I don't believe in like there's only one
person for the rest of your life. I don't believe
in that. I think that that's that's a whole other
topic for another time. But but having said that, you know,
you start, it's going to be the same shit with
somebody new. It's the whole thing. Relationships are hard. You know,
(38:11):
choose your heart. If you're going to choose me or
choose our relationship, then that's the hard you're choosing. If
you think it's easier with somebody else, it's not going
to be. And you know you're more than welcome to
go try. By the way, because I'm not begging or
nailing you down to the ground to stay with me.
That's you know. But when you make a choice, then
(38:32):
you have to realize there's a shit that comes along
with it, you know. And I I would never say that,
oh we're gonna you know, everything is perfect and everything's
great and every because it's not and it won't be.
That's just life.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I don't want perfect, and I know you don't want perfect.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Well, I know that we'll never have perfect.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Because we'll never have perfect. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, it's just life. So either you buckle up and
really celebrate the good times and try hard to get
through the bad times because they're all coming, you know. Both.
And then there is the mundane, and there is that
which I think you suffer with a lot, when it's
just like nothing's happening. It's not great, it's not bad,
(39:19):
but it's just moving along a line. I think you
have a hard time with that, but I think just
realizing what it is and then you know, trying to
work on that too, because I can't solve all of
it for you. You can't solve all of it for me.
A lot of it is looking within belief and working
(39:39):
on yourself.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
I went to therapy my first few years because I
thought other people did wrong for me. And then the
therapy that I've done later in my life, I realize
it's about me, it's not about.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Growth comes from being uncomfortable and a lot about you know,
growing us, growing as people is a never ending thing too.
So in uncomfortable times, you can sit there and realize, Okay,
what can I do to make myself better that hopefully
will make the situation better? Not what can I do
(40:17):
to make you better? What can I do to make
myself better that in turn really will make the situation better.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
I would love to know from as we close. I'd
love to know from anybody that listened to this, you know,
about their relationship and their struggles, whether the relationship stayed
together or didn't stay together, and if any of this
hit a chord for you, because I do think that
(40:46):
you learn from others. Yeah, and I think that there's
a lot of times where I have, you know, learned
from the listener who says to us that they wish
they would have said this years ago, right, you know,
and I wouldn't look at people will say, oh my god,
I just love that you guys do what you do
(41:06):
I don't think you should look at what we do
as a model of things, but I do think that
we've been blessed that we've been able to be together
and stay together for thirty two years.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Well yeah, and there's multiple reasons for that. That yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I hope that Jacob's listening to this all the way through,
because I do want to know, does it bother you
that we don't come visit more? Because if so, I
will move to Chicago.
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