April 28, 2023 • 28 mins
Walt and Krysta talk to RIVALS about managing content creation and making art, the best and worst parts of being in the music industry, the importance of mental health to their music, and more. Look for RIVALS new song Man Eater out May 5th
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Ye, welcome to another cool story, bro. I'm walt here with my
co host Christa. All right,cool story bro. Is what we like
to do is we like to takea look at what goes on behind the
scenes of the music business, getall kinds of different takes and uh in
(00:21):
stories and things about how this wholething works. Are many cogs in the
wheel of the music business and welike to explore all of them. We
will touch all of them. Buttoday we get to hang out with the
guys in the band. Rivals.Guys, welcome, good to see you.
Hello, how are you. I'mfantastic, Kaylee. Want to introduce
everybody in the band. Sure,um, right here in this middle spot
(00:45):
is our bass play seb. He'snot here. This is Josh. This
is Mickett. He plays guitar,drums and sub plays bass. Awesome.
Well, guys, I guess firstof all, congrats, you've got some
new music on the way coming outMay fifth Man Man Eater is on the
way, And I want to explaina little bit as to what goes into
(01:08):
putting out a record release in twentytwenty three. What what you've been working
on to get this out? Yeah, just like a lot of rushing,
um panicking, m yeah, alot of flying, a lot of internal
hum, of sushi, A lotof sushi, that's nothing wrong with that.
A lot of band meetings, whichis what we call when we the
(01:30):
band paste for everyone's meals. Uhno, I mean it's it's different because
now we're we've been doing kind ofthe singles game for a little bit,
so we've been pushing songs out likeeight to twelve weeks typically, So it's
like a lot of like go gogo, we gotta get things done.
We gotta get it written, wegotta get mixed and mastered. Are we
filming a video for this? Weneed art, we need merch, we
(01:52):
need So it's like this is likebang bang bang bang, of like trying
to get things put together and inum TikTok content yeah, content in general,
lots of content. Yeah, that'sactually how I discovered you was on
TikTok. Dark Matter and Moonlit areprobably my two favorite songs, and that's
what I was seeing just scrolling thealgorithm and then you guys pop up and
(02:15):
dark Matter to me when I startedlistening to it. So, like your
sound is described as dark pop rock, which I think is such an interesting
combination, which I absolutely love.But it was very refreshing to hear a
woman's vocal on a sound like that. What has that been like for you
being a woman in this sphere.I don't know. I just vibe,
(02:38):
you know, like it's so.I mean, it's hard because sometimes I'm
like, there's obviously always going tobe stuff like there's always gonna be doubters
and whatever. But I think thatcomes in the realm of a lot of
people, but especially as a woman, sometimes you get pushed back or shut
(02:59):
down in certain circumstances. Um.But honestly, I just thought, I
just people either like it or theydon't, and if they don't, whatever,
Man, there's seven billion people onthis dame planet. Someone's bound to
like it. That's so true.What a great outlook too. I was
actually I watched this video today aboutum they were trying to explain what butt
(03:19):
rock was, and I'm like,what, what what is butt rock?
And why do we have to putbands in a box? Right? And
then they had like these are newmetal bands, these are postcrunch bands.
It's like, can we stop atthe labels? Right? And so if
you're dark pop rock, it's like, what It's one of those things where
(03:40):
I'm just like, honestly, ifwe just put every genre like it kind
of makes sense. We dabble alittle a little here and a little there,
so it's like, I guess theguess a place. I guess.
The place that it really comes inhandy though, is like maybe when you
have to put something on Spotify orApple Music or whatnot, and you have
to put like what if people aresearching a certain genre, like you know,
(04:03):
metal or whatever it is, youknow, it's like maybe then it's
important, but otherwise it's like enoughwith the labels, right yeah. And
then you have people like us whoare like, we're not like I just
put dark pop rock because I waslike, I don't really know. And
then now people who are like werelike a banjo folk um bought rock,
(04:26):
uh, you know, like andthey have like ninety tiles. But it's
like, well, you know,good for you whatever, right, Yeah.
But I saw it was like anindie that looked completely indie, but
it was a metalcore band the otherday, and I was like, interesting,
good for you guys, that's that'samazing. You don't remember what they
(04:46):
were, what their name was no, not at all. I was.
I was confused because I was aquestion. I was like, oh,
I mean, I was like,oh no, there's nothing indie about that.
It's very cool. It's a blackmetal indie band. Cool. So
how did you how did you guysall start as a band? How did
you come together? Oh my god, this is like eighteen ninety two.
(05:06):
I kid good Year, good Year. Yeah yeah, and no, Mike,
it was in a band prior umand back when I was a teenager.
I used to shoot photography for bands, um and so I went on
tour with his old band when Iwas seventeen years old, um and I
(05:28):
guess he had heard me sing.And then once his old band ended,
he was like, hey, Iwant to not do metal, and I
said, okay, well let's doit. So then we started Rivals and
Josh came along. Uh. He'sactually played with us a lot like here,
on and off throughout the years.And then finally what sixty seven six
years ago, we were just like, do you just want to join?
Like this is so silly. Ithought I wasn't gonna get kicked out When
(05:51):
we were heard a bulb of teashop and I was about to cry and
they're like, no, here's agood Yeah, my dog is deciding he
wants he thinks he's a lapdog.The moment between between when it when it
started was kind of kind of storybook, yes, because it was like I
(06:15):
had I had written a song andI was like, I really don't know
what I'm going to do with this. I had never really written anything that
wasn't metal before, and so Isent it to her and I was like,
hey, I don't even know whatyou do. Just sing on it
and if it works, it works. If it doesn't, then you know,
I'll just do something else. AndI like an hour later, she
sent me something back and I waslike, yo, I think we just
started the band. And me,who's never been in a band, I
(06:40):
was like, all right, herewe go. Okayley, don't sell yourself
short because you have an amazing voice. And I think that that's one of
the things where you know, youwrite a song and then you give it
to somebody who's got this amazing instrumentand they just let loose on it and
then the magic happens. And Ihear that when I listen to you your
music, So that's pretty amazing.Well, that's good. All right.
(07:01):
So some of the themes that youguys hit about on, so do you
write the lyrics? Kaylee, Yeah, yeah, yeah, some of the
some of the themes about mental health, and you seem to be kind of
an advocate for taking care of yourselfmentally, which I think is such an
important message these days. That getsswept under the carpet and people don't like
(07:24):
to talk about it, but you'rebringing it out. Why is that?
I mean, I have struggled withmy own not a mental health, but
personal image for many years. Youknow, I grew up as a chubby
girl and the two thousands and peoplewere harsh back then. Everybody was model,
heroine, cheek thin. That wasnot that. So I spent many
(07:45):
years hating myself for not being likethat. And you know, I just
felt like a lot of the thingstie into the my growth as a human
being and realizing that like who Iam is who I am, and that's
you know, I have to acceptthat. And there's beauty in accepting who
you are and loving who you areregardless of any situation or scenario. And
(08:09):
it took a long time to getthere, so you know, um,
I just it's just what it's whatI feel the most comfortable talking about in
the grand scheme. Like I don'treally write love songs. I don't really
you know, Like my thing islike things are going to be okay.
But I think that's such an importantmessage because every your audience, you know,
(08:31):
people can identify with that, becauseeverybody goes through stuff in their life
and they need somebody to sell themthat it's going to be okay, or
keep fighting, keep pushing because there'slight at the end of the tunnel.
And uh, it's it's actually anuplifting message at the end of the day
because you're trying to push people tomove on and to make it through the
tough stuff in life. Yeah,exactly, exactly. So, Uh,
(08:56):
as we kind of touch on thisa little bit. As a woman in
the music industry, what kind ofchallenges has that brought to getting the music
out touring. I mean there's Iwill never not feel like sometimes we're missed
out on opportunities because I'm a woman. Like and I've heard Verbratum Verbroatum,
(09:22):
Um, sorry that's his drum shoecompany. I just always mixed them up.
Um. I've literally heard bands saymy wife will not let us bring
a girl on tour, like theywon't at all, like or like they'll
say, we don't like touring withwomen. I've heard it straight from other
musicians. Mouths are touring right now. Yeah, so it's like it's not
(09:45):
that I think it's I know,I know the missed out on opportunities because
I have a vagina? Am Iattle trick too? Because it's like I
read, you know, you didan interview with Caliber, and I read
that you were saying that you've evenhad people tell you that they don't want
to many women on the lineup.I'm in DJ and I can't tell you
how often that has happened to mewhere I've been told, oh, I
wish you would come to a sooner. We already have two women, and
(10:07):
it's like, but why does thatmatter? Thirty men? Yeah? Ever
do we have too many men onthis line up? Yeah? I've never
heard that we got we gotta kickhim out too many? Well, that
does actually happen in the clubs.Women free and they're like, who pays
(10:28):
off to be a chick the onetime? Um, but no, you
get it. It's like sometimes mydog. Sometimes you just it is unfortunate,
but it's you know, sometimes alittle challenge makes things fun. Some
believable that that you say, uh, somebody's wife wouldn't let you go because
(10:52):
there's a woman in the band,Because it's like that to me sounds like
a bigger problem in their relationship andthere has there's nothing to do with you.
Let's say, I know, Isee it. I've been with my
significant other for almost seven years.I don't want your husband. Yeah,
exactly right. But yeah, growup. That's internal insecurity. That once
(11:13):
again is what I write about.It's overcoming things that honestly you got to
grow past and that that would includethat. So yeah, time someone says
that to you, just like mailthem your album and say, how do
you think you? I think youneed this growth? Yeah, so how
(11:35):
you kind of mentioned it a littlebit about how when you set up this
recording of manager coming out on Mayfifth, um you have to do TikTok
content? How important is social mediato your world in the music industry in
twenty twenty three? Literally everything likedark like I on a whim one day,
(11:56):
Like I was very against TikTok fora while. Okay, roch funny,
I loved sorry. Um. Ifor a while it was like very
against TikTok. I was like,I don't want to do it. I
want nothing to do with it.I don't like it. Um. And
then one day I was like andit was kind of came from like a
like like an internal musician struggle oflike it felt shameful in a way.
(12:20):
Um. And one day I waslike, you know what, I don't
care anymore. What's the worst thatcan happen? People don't watch it,
There're lots so and then I startedposting dark Matter and it blew up and
it literally changed their lives. AndI'm so glad that I put my my
stupid insecurity of my shame aside andjust was like I'm gonna do this,
(12:43):
like I'm gonna do it and we'llsee what happens. Yeah. So but
to answer your question, it's everything. Yeah, it's it's crazy. It's
crazy, you know, because Iwas in the in the business making records
in the nineties and it's like itwas and existing at that time, you
know, So it was totally it'sso it blows my mind how different the
(13:05):
music industry is today, because Imean, all right, that we could
go on for an hour on whatI'm about to say. But it's like
back in the day, it wasyour record music and it was the product.
It was worth everything. Now themusic becomes the promotional tour to sell
T shirts and concert tickets. Itis like the whole thing is flipped on
its head and it's weird. Yeah, it's hard. I think once a
(13:28):
lot of bands started adapting or understandinglifestyle branding, which is like what you
would see in like Adidas or Nikeor like other the successful bands, the
ones that come to mind right now, off off the top of my head,
like that we're kind of doing it. At first was like deaf Tones
and Slipnot and Corn Like you wereseeing major bands, but they were doing
T shirts and socks and shoes andeverything, and it's like, now you've
(13:52):
got to do the content with thatand everything. It's all kind of like
this big package. That's yeah,you have to be able to have enough
time to do all of it justto release one song. Yeah, and
there you go. Yeah, it'sit's tough. It is a it's a
you know, you're pushing a boulderuphill to get all of that stuff and
get it all together and to getpeople to pay attention now because because on
(14:13):
TikTok there's like so many things andnot just TikTok, You've got Facebook and
Instagram and everything else going on.It's so hard to get anybody's attention anymore,
it is, and then it's veryshort lived. Yeah, right,
when you do get it, it'sshort lived. So it's like that's why,
I mean, ideally you post onyour socials, preferably video content because
(14:33):
that's just what does the best.And you have to post something every single
day. So it's like it's inand of itself, is an entire job
doing content. Like it's well,it's literally people make entire incomes from filming
content, and like we're expected tonot only write, make music videos,
(14:56):
film content, go on tour.It's like so it's like we're working as
musicians. We are literally working fourjobs trying to make everything work to a
standard of like via viability, liability. Yeah, like being able to sustain
and get to do this do whatwe love. Um. Yeah, So
(15:20):
what's what's your least favorite thing aboutthe music business today? Music videos?
I hate filming music videos. Filmingmusic videos. I don't know what it
is. I just don't well,I mean, I mean the whole thing,
Like I'm top to bottom. I'min every single part of it.
So I have sixteen hour days everytime we do it. I don't like
(15:41):
doing them. But also to actuallyanswer the real question content, I don't
don't like doing it. I don't. I don't love doing it. Um,
but I do it because I knowthat's unfortunately that's what it is.
Buddy, Come on, buddy.Um it's like I want to be a
part of your book. Uh.The content is saying, what's your favorite
(16:03):
touring? Yeah? Playing the shows? Honestly, I'm gonna say the drama.
Oh you love the drama. That'snot like the drama, but like
the stress of it, like thenothing's gonna happen? What am I doing?
Am I wasting my life? Somethingabout that is what keeps me going
(16:23):
because it's like the the like thewillpower to keep going and the strive to
new that I overco came those momentsof like serious self doubt and like almost
like I'm done with this. Um, I love that part. That's awesome.
That's cool. What about you,guys? It's either playing or writing.
(16:48):
Those are my two favorites. Theworst part is editing the concept.
Like when you're filming something, you'relike, Okay, this could be fucking
cool. Well and then you likego back to editing it and you're like,
oh, this is gonna get trash. I'm a social media manager.
I can't tell you how often thathas happened to me. Or you spend
(17:11):
an hour editing something just to realizeit's not turning out how you thought in
your head. That's the absolute words. Filming it is nothing. Editing it
murder me bro Like, it's justnot what it is. Yeah, Yeah,
I love I love the touring andI love the music videos actually because
both things are kind of a spectacle. There's like there's a lot that goes
(17:33):
into it when it's happening, likewhen you see the finished project, like
oh my god, this is soit's so big and magical and it's got
all these different parts to it.My least favorite is content, Isn't it
funny? Yeah, you're the samewith me. We have to do content
as part of the radio station stuff, and it's just like can I just
talk about music some more? SoI decided to do a podcast where I
(17:56):
talk about music. Yeah, atleast you don't have to your makeup.
Yeah, it sucks. That partis like that's one of the things about
being a woman in the industry.It's like I have to like look really
good at all the time, andthat part I don't love part. Sometimes
(18:18):
I just want to look like abum or do you ever have like where
you're going? For me, it'sevents because I feel like men can show
up in like a black T shirtand black jeans and a chain and they
look really cool and chic. Butfor me and you, it's like a
whole like Okay, this long orthat long, and then I need sleeves
or I now don't need sleeves andaccessories. It's like this whole thing in
(18:40):
your mind, like you don't wantto look to this or to that terrible
and I hate it. That's whyI stay indoors. I don't leave,
stay get dressed like inside, Yes, indoors. I also read online one
of your big um inspirations is theUsed, which just makes my little emo
(19:00):
heart light up. Tell me aboutyour love for to Use. I love
them. I literally. One ofthe reasons I started singing was Burt McCracken,
so like like I would try toimitate him as much as possible,
which I think is where I've kindof gotten my like like he sings very
strong, almost like I don't knowhow to describe it, but um in
(19:23):
very quirky, and I loved itso much. Um. I mean,
I can't tell you how many timesI've cried to any of them there and
recently, um, we got anopportunity to meet their card player, which
to me was like came out toone of our shows. I was like,
(19:45):
so I had a little mini miniinternal moment, and now he follows
me, So now I definitely wow. I'm sure I don't think I could
eat Burt Burt McCracken. I thinkI would just cry on him. So
we're gonna save that for never.And that's It's one of those things that
they say you never want to meetyour idols because you will be disappointed.
But I'll tell you what, Burt'sa nice guy, so I think he
(20:07):
would be nice. I think Iwould just make a fool of myself.
What are three records that define you? There's so many first ones that come
to your mind. That's a toughone in love and death, of course,
(20:32):
and then I'm so bad to rememberthe titles of the albums, like
I can tell you the artwork.Yeah, but I do art for a
living, so I'm like, yeah, that's what I pay attention to.
Um, I'm you know, doubtit's Tragic Kingdom. Really, it's Orange
great one classics. I would sayMarilyn Manson's Dope Show or whatever. That
(20:59):
record was, Mechanical ANIMs. That'sone of my favorite records from him,
and then slipknots Iowa. Those aremy top records. Wow, it kind
of runs the gam it. That'sgood. That's good. I'm gonna guys.
Um, I'm god, why Ican't remember? Oh my god?
Uh, I have to look upthe album name because I'm so bad at
(21:22):
that. I think I know whneOkay, what was okay? What was
the name of the Corn City withFreak Lation Issues? Oh? Was it
issues? Everything? I know youCorn's freak King of Leash? Oh no,
it was a freaking that's what it'scalled, right thought? Yeah?
What a little girl running? Yeah? Yeah, okay, yeah, so
(21:45):
okay, that got me into playingguitar for sure. Um. I think
the other one's Black Sabbath by BlackSabbath, right, and then uh,
they're only what was the city withthrowing the chasing safety ours, the ambulances
were so bad album titles Can youtell Good Good album by Thrice though,
(22:07):
Yeah, you're talking about the theYeah, they're all the mask Yeah yeah
yeah that CD, especially at thetime when it came out, mind bloom.
Yeah. My second one is goingto be nothing but the Moral Panic.
Oh my god. That's a morerecent one. That album like literally
changed my perspective as an artist whenit came to like rock music. I
(22:32):
don't listened to a lot of rockmusic anymore, which is kind of ironic
considering what I write. But um, that album, I don't. It
just resparked me my love for rockmusic and in turn dug me deeper into
their older records. So um,and now they have a new one coming
out and I'm yeah, Um.I would say my third record would probably
(22:53):
be Melanie Martinez's cry Baby. Iliterally listened to that record probably ten million
dollars. I love that record.I still listen to it today. She
just had a new record to comeout, which is also wonderful. Um,
cry Baby your first one. OhI already said it h in love
(23:15):
it does used yeah, Um,but yeah, that was hard, so
hard, I think it is.I think it's because we're so used to
now, like our age, we'reused to the kind of TikTok algorithm of
oh, I see a song thatI like. How often do you know
people our age go out to likeI've never been to a record store to
(23:37):
buy an album, Like, yeah, it's been a long time since I've
bought a physical c I buy thesongs. Yeah, that's such things.
That's a valid point, valid point, but but I love I like to
ask the question just because I thinkit makes you get a real sense of
who you are as an artist,as you know, and what how you
get to where you are, especiallywhen you put all those albums together to
(24:00):
create what is rivals. I thinkthat's pretty amazing. It's so weird.
It's like the weirdest when you thinkabout album stuff now, it's like back
in the day, it's like,oh, the new whomever album came out
and you bought the album. Yeah, I was just thinking on that.
I miss that, Yeah, Imiss was it new New Music Friday or
(24:22):
whatever? Going on to our records, saving up all your money from like
working in Target, it's sixty analbum to just go buy two records that
played on repeat the whole weekend.I've never done this. Oh man,
this was like, but you guysare loder than me. I'm with you.
I'm in that camp. So Igot you. I know exactly what
(24:44):
you're saying, and I do missit as well. So and then you
think about like when music comes outnow, like no one's like, oh
yeah, they just came out withthis album. It's like, oh,
this person made new music, Likedid you hear whatever song? Yeah?
Or it's like people like really leadespecially today, only listen to the singles.
Like if you people's stream numbers,it's always like millions on the singles
(25:07):
and then the rest of the recordhas like two hundred thousand minutes each and
right, all right, So you'resaying that you have been releasing a series
of singles. Is has that beena conscious decision because of things like this?
Uh yeah. Also, I justwasn't really ready to write a record
record. It's writing a record isa lot. It's a lot of work.
(25:29):
Um, it's a lot of effort, it's a lot of money.
So it's more so just like Iwasn't ready, Um, we have started.
We did start, so we havewe're okay, roshdy, you're crazy.
Um, We're like we have like, what eight songs written something something
like that. We're like, we'redigging. But when we write, we
write thirty to forty. That's howwow, all right, I know.
(25:53):
We I like to make sure likeeveryone's a banger, you know, like
I want I want people to listento our record and be like this sounds
good, This sounds good, thissongs good. Wait, this one's really
good too, and it's like,yeah, thank you. It's like I
remember when the nineteen seventy five launchedthemselves. They did a series of EPs,
so it'd be like three songs basedaround a single, three songs based
around a single, three songs basedaround sings. And then they started gathering
(26:15):
like all of those singles, andthen a couple of the better B sides,
and then they added about four moreand there you have their first album,
which therefore is loaded with hits.And I thought, like, what
a brilliant way, especially in thisADHD world where the every nobody has the
attentions band to listen to a fullalbum anymore. And you're a new band,
(26:37):
so if you put out these littlechunks, people are easier to digest
that and then next thing you know, you've got a full album worth of
hits that people love. I thoughtthat was a pretty brilliant way to introduce
yourself as a band. Yeah,that's kind of how we're doing it.
We're gonna be dropping singles, butthey'll collectively end up on our record together
at next year, So it's kindof like we're picking out the ones we
(27:00):
feel are the best for the moment, and then um, when we get
closer to the end, it'll beall the singles that were released from man
Eater on UM onto the record all. I think that's smart. I love
it. Yeah, So, whichbrings me to where we're at. Now,
what's next for the rest of theyear. So Man man Eater comes
out May fifth, You're hitting theroad. We set it off. What
(27:21):
else is going on? Yes,we hit the road. We'll set it
off seeing Queen Anne in her ownwords on May first, which I'm stoked.
We already have some sell out datesand really low ticket sales, so
that's I'm hyped. Um. Weare filming a music video for man Eater
on the of May thirty first,sot um and then writing We are writing
(27:45):
that's kind of our mangle this year. Um, we're looking at some fall
tours, but I work since we'rein writing mode, I'm not like we
need to tour. Like I'm tryingto get a record right now, so
I do want to tour more,though, I like tour. Will you
be playing any Will you play ManEater? I guess it's released, so
why not, right, we'll playit on the set it off tour.
(28:06):
Oh yeah, we'll be playing it. I'm so excited. Yeah, well,
guys, I am so thrilled thatyou took some time to hang out
with us. It's fun to learnabout you guys and to expose your music
to people listening to the podcast.Best of luck with man Eater and everything,
and I can't wait to hear therest of the music. Thank you
so much for having us. Ofcourse, it's the it's the band rivals
(28:27):
everyone. Thanks for hanging out withus. Cool story, bro, Next
time, see you
Ye, welcome to another cool story, bro. I'm walt here with my
co host Christa. All right,cool story bro. Is what we like
to do is we like to takea look at what goes on behind the
scenes of the music business, getall kinds of different takes and uh in
(00:21):
stories and things about how this wholething works. Are many cogs in the
wheel of the music business and welike to explore all of them. We
will touch all of them. Buttoday we get to hang out with the
guys in the band. Rivals.Guys, welcome, good to see you.
Hello, how are you. I'mfantastic, Kaylee. Want to introduce
everybody in the band. Sure,um, right here in this middle spot
(00:45):
is our bass play seb. He'snot here. This is Josh. This
is Mickett. He plays guitar,drums and sub plays bass. Awesome.
Well, guys, I guess firstof all, congrats, you've got some
new music on the way coming outMay fifth Man Man Eater is on the
way, And I want to explaina little bit as to what goes into
(01:08):
putting out a record release in twentytwenty three. What what you've been working
on to get this out? Yeah, just like a lot of rushing,
um panicking, m yeah, alot of flying, a lot of internal
hum, of sushi, A lotof sushi, that's nothing wrong with that.
A lot of band meetings, whichis what we call when we the
(01:30):
band paste for everyone's meals. Uhno, I mean it's it's different because
now we're we've been doing kind ofthe singles game for a little bit,
so we've been pushing songs out likeeight to twelve weeks typically, So it's
like a lot of like go gogo, we gotta get things done.
We gotta get it written, wegotta get mixed and mastered. Are we
filming a video for this? Weneed art, we need merch, we
(01:52):
need So it's like this is likebang bang bang bang, of like trying
to get things put together and inum TikTok content yeah, content in general,
lots of content. Yeah, that'sactually how I discovered you was on
TikTok. Dark Matter and Moonlit areprobably my two favorite songs, and that's
what I was seeing just scrolling thealgorithm and then you guys pop up and
(02:15):
dark Matter to me when I startedlistening to it. So, like your
sound is described as dark pop rock, which I think is such an interesting
combination, which I absolutely love.But it was very refreshing to hear a
woman's vocal on a sound like that. What has that been like for you
being a woman in this sphere.I don't know. I just vibe,
(02:38):
you know, like it's so.I mean, it's hard because sometimes I'm
like, there's obviously always going tobe stuff like there's always gonna be doubters
and whatever. But I think thatcomes in the realm of a lot of
people, but especially as a woman, sometimes you get pushed back or shut
(02:59):
down in certain circumstances. Um.But honestly, I just thought, I
just people either like it or theydon't, and if they don't, whatever,
Man, there's seven billion people onthis dame planet. Someone's bound to
like it. That's so true.What a great outlook too. I was
actually I watched this video today aboutum they were trying to explain what butt
(03:19):
rock was, and I'm like,what, what what is butt rock?
And why do we have to putbands in a box? Right? And
then they had like these are newmetal bands, these are postcrunch bands.
It's like, can we stop atthe labels? Right? And so if
you're dark pop rock, it's like, what It's one of those things where
(03:40):
I'm just like, honestly, ifwe just put every genre like it kind
of makes sense. We dabble alittle a little here and a little there,
so it's like, I guess theguess a place. I guess.
The place that it really comes inhandy though, is like maybe when you
have to put something on Spotify orApple Music or whatnot, and you have
to put like what if people aresearching a certain genre, like you know,
(04:03):
metal or whatever it is, youknow, it's like maybe then it's
important, but otherwise it's like enoughwith the labels, right yeah. And
then you have people like us whoare like, we're not like I just
put dark pop rock because I waslike, I don't really know. And
then now people who are like werelike a banjo folk um bought rock,
(04:26):
uh, you know, like andthey have like ninety tiles. But it's
like, well, you know,good for you whatever, right, Yeah.
But I saw it was like anindie that looked completely indie, but
it was a metalcore band the otherday, and I was like, interesting,
good for you guys, that's that'samazing. You don't remember what they
(04:46):
were, what their name was no, not at all. I was.
I was confused because I was aquestion. I was like, oh,
I mean, I was like,oh no, there's nothing indie about that.
It's very cool. It's a blackmetal indie band. Cool. So
how did you how did you guysall start as a band? How did
you come together? Oh my god, this is like eighteen ninety two.
(05:06):
I kid good Year, good Year. Yeah yeah, and no, Mike,
it was in a band prior umand back when I was a teenager.
I used to shoot photography for bands, um and so I went on
tour with his old band when Iwas seventeen years old, um and I
(05:28):
guess he had heard me sing.And then once his old band ended,
he was like, hey, Iwant to not do metal, and I
said, okay, well let's doit. So then we started Rivals and
Josh came along. Uh. He'sactually played with us a lot like here,
on and off throughout the years.And then finally what sixty seven six
years ago, we were just like, do you just want to join?
Like this is so silly. Ithought I wasn't gonna get kicked out When
(05:51):
we were heard a bulb of teashop and I was about to cry and
they're like, no, here's agood Yeah, my dog is deciding he
wants he thinks he's a lapdog.The moment between between when it when it
started was kind of kind of storybook, yes, because it was like I
(06:15):
had I had written a song andI was like, I really don't know
what I'm going to do with this. I had never really written anything that
wasn't metal before, and so Isent it to her and I was like,
hey, I don't even know whatyou do. Just sing on it
and if it works, it works. If it doesn't, then you know,
I'll just do something else. AndI like an hour later, she
sent me something back and I waslike, yo, I think we just
started the band. And me,who's never been in a band, I
(06:40):
was like, all right, herewe go. Okayley, don't sell yourself
short because you have an amazing voice. And I think that that's one of
the things where you know, youwrite a song and then you give it
to somebody who's got this amazing instrumentand they just let loose on it and
then the magic happens. And Ihear that when I listen to you your
music, So that's pretty amazing.Well, that's good. All right.
(07:01):
So some of the themes that youguys hit about on, so do you
write the lyrics? Kaylee, Yeah, yeah, yeah, some of the
some of the themes about mental health, and you seem to be kind of
an advocate for taking care of yourselfmentally, which I think is such an
important message these days. That getsswept under the carpet and people don't like
(07:24):
to talk about it, but you'rebringing it out. Why is that?
I mean, I have struggled withmy own not a mental health, but
personal image for many years. Youknow, I grew up as a chubby
girl and the two thousands and peoplewere harsh back then. Everybody was model,
heroine, cheek thin. That wasnot that. So I spent many
(07:45):
years hating myself for not being likethat. And you know, I just
felt like a lot of the thingstie into the my growth as a human
being and realizing that like who Iam is who I am, and that's
you know, I have to acceptthat. And there's beauty in accepting who
you are and loving who you areregardless of any situation or scenario. And
(08:09):
it took a long time to getthere, so you know, um,
I just it's just what it's whatI feel the most comfortable talking about in
the grand scheme. Like I don'treally write love songs. I don't really
you know, Like my thing islike things are going to be okay.
But I think that's such an importantmessage because every your audience, you know,
(08:31):
people can identify with that, becauseeverybody goes through stuff in their life
and they need somebody to sell themthat it's going to be okay, or
keep fighting, keep pushing because there'slight at the end of the tunnel.
And uh, it's it's actually anuplifting message at the end of the day
because you're trying to push people tomove on and to make it through the
tough stuff in life. Yeah,exactly, exactly. So, Uh,
(08:56):
as we kind of touch on thisa little bit. As a woman in
the music industry, what kind ofchallenges has that brought to getting the music
out touring. I mean there's Iwill never not feel like sometimes we're missed
out on opportunities because I'm a woman. Like and I've heard Verbratum Verbroatum,
(09:22):
Um, sorry that's his drum shoecompany. I just always mixed them up.
Um. I've literally heard bands saymy wife will not let us bring
a girl on tour, like theywon't at all, like or like they'll
say, we don't like touring withwomen. I've heard it straight from other
musicians. Mouths are touring right now. Yeah, so it's like it's not
(09:45):
that I think it's I know,I know the missed out on opportunities because
I have a vagina? Am Iattle trick too? Because it's like I
read, you know, you didan interview with Caliber, and I read
that you were saying that you've evenhad people tell you that they don't want
to many women on the lineup.I'm in DJ and I can't tell you
how often that has happened to mewhere I've been told, oh, I
wish you would come to a sooner. We already have two women, and
(10:07):
it's like, but why does thatmatter? Thirty men? Yeah? Ever
do we have too many men onthis line up? Yeah? I've never
heard that we got we gotta kickhim out too many? Well, that
does actually happen in the clubs.Women free and they're like, who pays
(10:28):
off to be a chick the onetime? Um, but no, you
get it. It's like sometimes mydog. Sometimes you just it is unfortunate,
but it's you know, sometimes alittle challenge makes things fun. Some
believable that that you say, uh, somebody's wife wouldn't let you go because
(10:52):
there's a woman in the band,Because it's like that to me sounds like
a bigger problem in their relationship andthere has there's nothing to do with you.
Let's say, I know, Isee it. I've been with my
significant other for almost seven years.I don't want your husband. Yeah,
exactly right. But yeah, growup. That's internal insecurity. That once
(11:13):
again is what I write about.It's overcoming things that honestly you got to
grow past and that that would includethat. So yeah, time someone says
that to you, just like mailthem your album and say, how do
you think you? I think youneed this growth? Yeah, so how
(11:35):
you kind of mentioned it a littlebit about how when you set up this
recording of manager coming out on Mayfifth, um you have to do TikTok
content? How important is social mediato your world in the music industry in
twenty twenty three? Literally everything likedark like I on a whim one day,
(11:56):
Like I was very against TikTok fora while. Okay, roch funny,
I loved sorry. Um. Ifor a while it was like very
against TikTok. I was like,I don't want to do it. I
want nothing to do with it.I don't like it. Um. And
then one day I was like andit was kind of came from like a
like like an internal musician struggle oflike it felt shameful in a way.
(12:20):
Um. And one day I waslike, you know what, I don't
care anymore. What's the worst thatcan happen? People don't watch it,
There're lots so and then I startedposting dark Matter and it blew up and
it literally changed their lives. AndI'm so glad that I put my my
stupid insecurity of my shame aside andjust was like I'm gonna do this,
(12:43):
like I'm gonna do it and we'llsee what happens. Yeah. So but
to answer your question, it's everything. Yeah, it's it's crazy. It's
crazy, you know, because Iwas in the in the business making records
in the nineties and it's like itwas and existing at that time, you
know, So it was totally it'sso it blows my mind how different the
(13:05):
music industry is today, because Imean, all right, that we could
go on for an hour on whatI'm about to say. But it's like
back in the day, it wasyour record music and it was the product.
It was worth everything. Now themusic becomes the promotional tour to sell
T shirts and concert tickets. Itis like the whole thing is flipped on
its head and it's weird. Yeah, it's hard. I think once a
(13:28):
lot of bands started adapting or understandinglifestyle branding, which is like what you
would see in like Adidas or Nikeor like other the successful bands, the
ones that come to mind right now, off off the top of my head,
like that we're kind of doing it. At first was like deaf Tones
and Slipnot and Corn Like you wereseeing major bands, but they were doing
T shirts and socks and shoes andeverything, and it's like, now you've
(13:52):
got to do the content with thatand everything. It's all kind of like
this big package. That's yeah,you have to be able to have enough
time to do all of it justto release one song. Yeah, and
there you go. Yeah, it'sit's tough. It is a it's a
you know, you're pushing a boulderuphill to get all of that stuff and
get it all together and to getpeople to pay attention now because because on
(14:13):
TikTok there's like so many things andnot just TikTok, You've got Facebook and
Instagram and everything else going on.It's so hard to get anybody's attention anymore,
it is, and then it's veryshort lived. Yeah, right,
when you do get it, it'sshort lived. So it's like that's why,
I mean, ideally you post onyour socials, preferably video content because
(14:33):
that's just what does the best.And you have to post something every single
day. So it's like it's inand of itself, is an entire job
doing content. Like it's well,it's literally people make entire incomes from filming
content, and like we're expected tonot only write, make music videos,
(14:56):
film content, go on tour.It's like so it's like we're working as
musicians. We are literally working fourjobs trying to make everything work to a
standard of like via viability, liability. Yeah, like being able to sustain
and get to do this do whatwe love. Um. Yeah, So
(15:20):
what's what's your least favorite thing aboutthe music business today? Music videos?
I hate filming music videos. Filmingmusic videos. I don't know what it
is. I just don't well,I mean, I mean the whole thing,
Like I'm top to bottom. I'min every single part of it.
So I have sixteen hour days everytime we do it. I don't like
(15:41):
doing them. But also to actuallyanswer the real question content, I don't
don't like doing it. I don't. I don't love doing it. Um,
but I do it because I knowthat's unfortunately that's what it is.
Buddy, Come on, buddy.Um it's like I want to be a
part of your book. Uh.The content is saying, what's your favorite
(16:03):
touring? Yeah? Playing the shows? Honestly, I'm gonna say the drama.
Oh you love the drama. That'snot like the drama, but like
the stress of it, like thenothing's gonna happen? What am I doing?
Am I wasting my life? Somethingabout that is what keeps me going
(16:23):
because it's like the the like thewillpower to keep going and the strive to
new that I overco came those momentsof like serious self doubt and like almost
like I'm done with this. Um, I love that part. That's awesome.
That's cool. What about you,guys? It's either playing or writing.
(16:48):
Those are my two favorites. Theworst part is editing the concept.
Like when you're filming something, you'relike, Okay, this could be fucking
cool. Well and then you likego back to editing it and you're like,
oh, this is gonna get trash. I'm a social media manager.
I can't tell you how often thathas happened to me. Or you spend
(17:11):
an hour editing something just to realizeit's not turning out how you thought in
your head. That's the absolute words. Filming it is nothing. Editing it
murder me bro Like, it's justnot what it is. Yeah, Yeah,
I love I love the touring andI love the music videos actually because
both things are kind of a spectacle. There's like there's a lot that goes
(17:33):
into it when it's happening, likewhen you see the finished project, like
oh my god, this is soit's so big and magical and it's got
all these different parts to it.My least favorite is content, Isn't it
funny? Yeah, you're the samewith me. We have to do content
as part of the radio station stuff, and it's just like can I just
talk about music some more? SoI decided to do a podcast where I
(17:56):
talk about music. Yeah, atleast you don't have to your makeup.
Yeah, it sucks. That partis like that's one of the things about
being a woman in the industry.It's like I have to like look really
good at all the time, andthat part I don't love part. Sometimes
(18:18):
I just want to look like abum or do you ever have like where
you're going? For me, it'sevents because I feel like men can show
up in like a black T shirtand black jeans and a chain and they
look really cool and chic. Butfor me and you, it's like a
whole like Okay, this long orthat long, and then I need sleeves
or I now don't need sleeves andaccessories. It's like this whole thing in
(18:40):
your mind, like you don't wantto look to this or to that terrible
and I hate it. That's whyI stay indoors. I don't leave,
stay get dressed like inside, Yes, indoors. I also read online one
of your big um inspirations is theUsed, which just makes my little emo
(19:00):
heart light up. Tell me aboutyour love for to Use. I love
them. I literally. One ofthe reasons I started singing was Burt McCracken,
so like like I would try toimitate him as much as possible,
which I think is where I've kindof gotten my like like he sings very
strong, almost like I don't knowhow to describe it, but um in
(19:23):
very quirky, and I loved itso much. Um. I mean,
I can't tell you how many timesI've cried to any of them there and
recently, um, we got anopportunity to meet their card player, which
to me was like came out toone of our shows. I was like,
(19:45):
so I had a little mini miniinternal moment, and now he follows
me, So now I definitely wow. I'm sure I don't think I could
eat Burt Burt McCracken. I thinkI would just cry on him. So
we're gonna save that for never.And that's It's one of those things that
they say you never want to meetyour idols because you will be disappointed.
But I'll tell you what, Burt'sa nice guy, so I think he
(20:07):
would be nice. I think Iwould just make a fool of myself.
What are three records that define you? There's so many first ones that come
to your mind. That's a toughone in love and death, of course,
(20:32):
and then I'm so bad to rememberthe titles of the albums, like
I can tell you the artwork.Yeah, but I do art for a
living, so I'm like, yeah, that's what I pay attention to.
Um, I'm you know, doubtit's Tragic Kingdom. Really, it's Orange
great one classics. I would sayMarilyn Manson's Dope Show or whatever. That
(20:59):
record was, Mechanical ANIMs. That'sone of my favorite records from him,
and then slipknots Iowa. Those aremy top records. Wow, it kind
of runs the gam it. That'sgood. That's good. I'm gonna guys.
Um, I'm god, why Ican't remember? Oh my god?
Uh, I have to look upthe album name because I'm so bad at
(21:22):
that. I think I know whneOkay, what was okay? What was
the name of the Corn City withFreak Lation Issues? Oh? Was it
issues? Everything? I know youCorn's freak King of Leash? Oh no,
it was a freaking that's what it'scalled, right thought? Yeah?
What a little girl running? Yeah? Yeah, okay, yeah, so
(21:45):
okay, that got me into playingguitar for sure. Um. I think
the other one's Black Sabbath by BlackSabbath, right, and then uh,
they're only what was the city withthrowing the chasing safety ours, the ambulances
were so bad album titles Can youtell Good Good album by Thrice though,
(22:07):
Yeah, you're talking about the theYeah, they're all the mask Yeah yeah
yeah that CD, especially at thetime when it came out, mind bloom.
Yeah. My second one is goingto be nothing but the Moral Panic.
Oh my god. That's a morerecent one. That album like literally
changed my perspective as an artist whenit came to like rock music. I
(22:32):
don't listened to a lot of rockmusic anymore, which is kind of ironic
considering what I write. But um, that album, I don't. It
just resparked me my love for rockmusic and in turn dug me deeper into
their older records. So um,and now they have a new one coming
out and I'm yeah, Um.I would say my third record would probably
(22:53):
be Melanie Martinez's cry Baby. Iliterally listened to that record probably ten million
dollars. I love that record.I still listen to it today. She
just had a new record to comeout, which is also wonderful. Um,
cry Baby your first one. OhI already said it h in love
(23:15):
it does used yeah, Um,but yeah, that was hard, so
hard, I think it is.I think it's because we're so used to
now, like our age, we'reused to the kind of TikTok algorithm of
oh, I see a song thatI like. How often do you know
people our age go out to likeI've never been to a record store to
(23:37):
buy an album, Like, yeah, it's been a long time since I've
bought a physical c I buy thesongs. Yeah, that's such things.
That's a valid point, valid point, but but I love I like to
ask the question just because I thinkit makes you get a real sense of
who you are as an artist,as you know, and what how you
get to where you are, especiallywhen you put all those albums together to
(24:00):
create what is rivals. I thinkthat's pretty amazing. It's so weird.
It's like the weirdest when you thinkabout album stuff now, it's like back
in the day, it's like,oh, the new whomever album came out
and you bought the album. Yeah, I was just thinking on that.
I miss that, Yeah, Imiss was it new New Music Friday or
(24:22):
whatever? Going on to our records, saving up all your money from like
working in Target, it's sixty analbum to just go buy two records that
played on repeat the whole weekend.I've never done this. Oh man,
this was like, but you guysare loder than me. I'm with you.
I'm in that camp. So Igot you. I know exactly what
(24:44):
you're saying, and I do missit as well. So and then you
think about like when music comes outnow, like no one's like, oh
yeah, they just came out withthis album. It's like, oh,
this person made new music, Likedid you hear whatever song? Yeah?
Or it's like people like really leadespecially today, only listen to the singles.
Like if you people's stream numbers,it's always like millions on the singles
(25:07):
and then the rest of the recordhas like two hundred thousand minutes each and
right, all right, So you'resaying that you have been releasing a series
of singles. Is has that beena conscious decision because of things like this?
Uh yeah. Also, I justwasn't really ready to write a record
record. It's writing a record isa lot. It's a lot of work.
(25:29):
Um, it's a lot of effort, it's a lot of money.
So it's more so just like Iwasn't ready, Um, we have started.
We did start, so we havewe're okay, roshdy, you're crazy.
Um, We're like we have like, what eight songs written something something
like that. We're like, we'redigging. But when we write, we
write thirty to forty. That's howwow, all right, I know.
(25:53):
We I like to make sure likeeveryone's a banger, you know, like
I want I want people to listento our record and be like this sounds
good, This sounds good, thissongs good. Wait, this one's really
good too, and it's like,yeah, thank you. It's like I
remember when the nineteen seventy five launchedthemselves. They did a series of EPs,
so it'd be like three songs basedaround a single, three songs based
around a single, three songs basedaround sings. And then they started gathering
(26:15):
like all of those singles, andthen a couple of the better B sides,
and then they added about four moreand there you have their first album,
which therefore is loaded with hits.And I thought, like, what
a brilliant way, especially in thisADHD world where the every nobody has the
attentions band to listen to a fullalbum anymore. And you're a new band,
(26:37):
so if you put out these littlechunks, people are easier to digest
that and then next thing you know, you've got a full album worth of
hits that people love. I thoughtthat was a pretty brilliant way to introduce
yourself as a band. Yeah,that's kind of how we're doing it.
We're gonna be dropping singles, butthey'll collectively end up on our record together
at next year, So it's kindof like we're picking out the ones we
(27:00):
feel are the best for the moment, and then um, when we get
closer to the end, it'll beall the singles that were released from man
Eater on UM onto the record all. I think that's smart. I love
it. Yeah, So, whichbrings me to where we're at. Now,
what's next for the rest of theyear. So Man man Eater comes
out May fifth, You're hitting theroad. We set it off. What
(27:21):
else is going on? Yes,we hit the road. We'll set it
off seeing Queen Anne in her ownwords on May first, which I'm stoked.
We already have some sell out datesand really low ticket sales, so
that's I'm hyped. Um. Weare filming a music video for man Eater
on the of May thirty first,sot um and then writing We are writing
(27:45):
that's kind of our mangle this year. Um, we're looking at some fall
tours, but I work since we'rein writing mode, I'm not like we
need to tour. Like I'm tryingto get a record right now, so
I do want to tour more,though, I like tour. Will you
be playing any Will you play ManEater? I guess it's released, so
why not, right, we'll playit on the set it off tour.
(28:06):
Oh yeah, we'll be playing it. I'm so excited. Yeah, well,
guys, I am so thrilled thatyou took some time to hang out
with us. It's fun to learnabout you guys and to expose your music
to people listening to the podcast.Best of luck with man Eater and everything,
and I can't wait to hear therest of the music. Thank you
so much for having us. Ofcourse, it's the it's the band rivals
(28:27):
everyone. Thanks for hanging out withus. Cool story, bro, Next
time, see you
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