1B Market, Options Running Thin for Mariners.

Chuck and Anders break down the evaporation of the 1B market within a 2 day stretch, what options are left? What is out there at 2B and 3B?

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Stove.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
What a kind of name is that? Happy holidays? It
is the holiday edition of Stove right here from anders Hurst,
and my name is Chuck Powell. Welcome in. We've lit
a fire. You can warm your hands. Buy that over there.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
I take the Christmas song today.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, we're gonna do some caroling roasting. What if anybody's
ever done hot stove caroling? Where I just anders and
I come to your door and we just suggest a trade.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
I like it, so then we analyze it right there
on your front stoop.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah, it's like your little Christmas gift. What's your first suggestion?

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Go?

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Right after that?

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Hello, Johnson's what do you think of Alec Bohm? Let's discuss. Yeah,
invite us in for a nice hot toddy and maybe
some fudge.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Now that sounds like a holiday. I can get behind
you for sure, for sure.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
All right, So let's clear this up. What's going on
with your voice? Ah?

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah, anyone who's listening, it's like, oh my god, are
you okay? Andrews? I'm fine. I went to the Seahawks
game yesterday. I was at twelve and I screamed my
face off. So I don't get to go to a
lot of Seahawks games, so I wanted to make sure
I made the most of it. Went with Richard L.
Paine and he he was awesome enough to take me
to with his seats as his son was out of

(01:18):
town on a golf tournament. Okay, So I made sure
I made my presence felt. With all the talk about
the twelves and how the atmosphere is being lost a
little bit, I wanted to kind of prove that it's
still there. Okay, did it? It did sound better yesterday.
I don't know I was there and I wasn't there
on the Green Bay game, but it definitely sounded like
it was the old times kind of with the Seahawks. Unfortunately,

(01:42):
they still lost.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Okay, Well, I just make sure we almost canceled this
episode show because I thought that Andrews was sick, and
I'm like, I'm not doing that right before the holidays.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
No, believe me, I would have. I would have let
you know, I wouldn't have come in on the Monday
before the holiday week if I was not feeling good.
So I know I've you'll totally fine. I'm just my voices,
my voice is gone.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, we'll get through it best we can. Yeah, yeah,
but just kind of setting the table for the holidays.
We won't do one next week. And you know what,
we used to always joke that every time we did
a Stove podcast, a move would be made and I
would ruin the podcast. I'm kind of at this point hoping, yes,

(02:24):
that that happens, because I'm tired of waiting.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Well, and like we have our little rundown here and
it's no Mariner moves is like kind of the main topic.
And I hope us talking about no Mariner moves manifests
a manner move because of that, So, knowing how it's
gone in the past, that's probably what's gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, I do wonder I am creeping toward that, getting worried.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, stage okay.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
And the reason that I am is, Look, I don't
care what happens. I'm not so impatient. If you end
up with a clever plan that that fills your holes
at first, second, and third, and we have a better
lineup on paper than we feel we ended last season
with to go along with the excellent starting pitching, then

(03:12):
well I'll assess the entire offseason. At that point. I
don't have to have it all happen before me, but
no doubt Andrews. This past week and watching the first
base market evaporate right before our eyes, most of it
done in one day, and the Mariners still don't really
have their first base plan for the upcoming season. You know, now,

(03:37):
I'm starting to get a little worried. Now, add to
that the teams that we're making moves for pitchers over
the weekend, starting pitching, which is supposed to be our
area of strength, and plan Z is that will trade
some starting pitching. Right well, if all the teams that
want starting pitching desperately have already satisfied that lust, now

(03:59):
I will admit, I mean, sitting here getting ready for
the holidays, I'm starting to get worried that they misread
the market, that they really have been told you have
no money to spend, or as we discussed last week,
to your point, they just have fallen in love with
all of their prospects and they're not going to move them.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, and I wonder because remember last year what happened
was there was no moves really after the winter meetings.
It took till almost a new year before the dominoes
really started to fall. And I wonder if that's how
the Mariners kind of expected this offseason to go as well.
So because remember the first kind of big one was
the Mitch Garver on Christmas Eve, and then things kind

(04:41):
of started to happen after that, So maybe they kind
of were planning on something like that happening with the
market this year, but it's not been the case. It's
been as soon as Soto signed right before the Winter Meetings,
things started to happen quickly after that trade went down,
Teams that kind of were looking to upgrade in certain
areas got those peace. I mean, you talked about the

(05:01):
first base market, and one of those guys that you
really wanted on the Mariners, Christian Walker, signs with the
Houston Astros. So three years, sixty million dollar deal. That's
a little less than I thought he would have gotten.
I thought he was getting the twenty four to twenty
five million dollar range. So that's I don't want to
say a steal for the Astros because I still have

(05:22):
my doubts on him as a player, but he's one
of those players for me that if he had signed
with the Mariners, I would have been worried that it
would have been not a fallof but just not the
same player that he was these past three years in Arizona.
But then he signs with the Houston Astros and I'm like, oh, well,
he's gonna rake for three more years. So that's kind
of why I land with the Christian Walker signing with

(05:44):
the Houston Astros.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, I mean I like him. I think he's a
gym rat. I don't. And he plays a position that
you know ages better than other positions.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
I think he would have come here and been a
productive player and a good contributor on defense in the clubhouse.
And and then your order, I think you put him
number four in your order right off the bat. I
think what is perplexing about it is the three years
sixty million because most of the the forecasts we're saying

(06:17):
like twenty five million a year for this guy. So
it does make you feel like and it doesn't mean
the Mariners could have gotten him from that right like
it could have been the Mariners offered the exact same thing.
And he's like, well, if that's it, I like hot weather.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
I've been in Arizona, and I go to a place
that has proven to develop bats.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Or or a ballpark with Crawford boxes fourteen feet away, a.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Lot of examples.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
All right, you might have had to blow their offer
out of the water and you just never got there.
So but it did make you feel like, gosh, that's doable. Yeah,
I mean, are we really not willing to go to
three years, twenty million year on an all star first baseman,
considering how great the needs are for offense?

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
And then you see gold Schmidt go, and I know
that people would have I'm certain Mariner fans would have
not liked adding Paul Goldschmidt because that's a guy who's
even three years older, not coming off a good year,
right like Walker is at least coming off a good
year at age thirty four.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Goldschmith still has like the name value though, like he
was an MVP candidate two years ago, and and you
know he's thirty seven, but he's he's he's done it
for a long long time.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
The ultimate leader. Yes, Steven Suso, that's that was his choice.
That guy who he wanted for this offseason. They used
to be locker mates, they used to sit right next
to each other, So that's the guy that he wanted.
I'm sure Mariner fans wouldn't have wanted him. But he
comes off.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
The board and a year, twelve and a half million
goes to the Yankees Mitch Garver money.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Then like an hour later, Josh Naylor gets traded to
the Diamondbacks, the Diamondbacks to replace Walker, and then the
trade value not grander. You only get one year of Naylor.
But you know this trade deadline moves. Sometimes you only
get two months of a player of this caliber and
he cost you a top twenty prospect and a draft pick,

(08:20):
and that's what he cost them, And then you start wondering,
anders's like, we couldn't have done, that, couldn't have gotten
I mean this, it's got to be about winning now
to some degree, I'm all about building a strong farm
system and that's how you sustain good play over a
long period of time. And I think that's what the
goal of the Mariners should be. But also written in

(08:43):
there is when you have your chance to win a
World Series, you go for it. And to me, adding
Naylor now in the offseason and getting six months out
of him for a top twenty prospect and a draft
pick again, well doable. Then everybody turned to Santana, all right, well,

(09:04):
Santana's still out there, and before people could even finish
their tweets, he'd signed with the Guardians to replace Naylor. Yep,
so Anders were sitting here with a dried up first
base market. I mean, if you don't get Turner back,
and that's far older than Christian Walker, you're looking at

(09:25):
Locklear and Raleigh as a platoon at first base. And
I like Raleigh and I haven't certainly given up on Locklear,
but it's not what I was thinking about when I
was considering how is this team going to upgrade offensively this.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Office, especially at first base? And I that's one thing
I did like about the Christian Walker idea when we
were talking about earlier, is I think you need more
at first base. I'm like, I'm not the biggest Tay
Frans fan, and I've been an advocate for upgrading that
position for a long time, but you had something based yourself.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
We're getting to the point he's the best guy on the.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Market, exactly. He might That's what I's gonna bring up.
He might be the guy they end up signing, which
would be a weird situation because of how we left.
Very weird. I wouldn't put it past Jerry, but I
think you need more from that position. And I think
that was something that when you have a good first
basement with some pop in the lineup, that kind of
puts fear into the opposing starting pitcher. It reverberates around

(10:21):
the rest of the lineup, and it helps add protection
to the guys at the top of the order. And
you don't need like a Freddy Freeman kind of like
full on aircraft carrier, as you would mention, but you
just need something a little bit more than what you've
been getting the last couple of years.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Absolutely, you need that at second, and you need that
at third. So you've got to go three upgrades on
your infield for and it's not just about me or
Anders or anybody listening the fan base that they're not
gonna a lot of them are gonna be happy no
matter what you do. But there's no way you, Jerry
or Justin or John can feel better if you don't

(10:56):
upgrade those three positions this offseason. And so you're getting
to the point where how can you because even if
you bring back Turner, you're just saying what we had
last year works is okay. At the end of last year,
which I can live with it anders if you do
significantly upgrade second and third, which we'll get to in

(11:20):
a moment, so I can even live with Rayleigh and Locklear.
But that means you have brought in a damn near
all star second baseman and a damn near All star
third baseman, something that we have lacked. Well, we had
Geno a couple of years ago. Borderline all star.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah yeah, consistent, good player, yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
But at this point you're running out of pieces. We've
already talked about the thin third base market. It's Alex
Bregman on the free agent market, and you know you're
not going to spend money on him. And on the
first base side, it's Alonso, who you know you're not
going to spend money on. And then you got Turner.
Bucky did bring up Yondi Diaz from Tampa.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
That trade was thrown out there for a lot of teams.
We're looking at that the trading deadline last year, so
you would think that he's still available. I would be
happy with the Yandy Diaz. He would get him for
only one year if I remember correctly, though, one year and.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
A team option. That's right, so you would get him
for two years at at really reasonable rate ten twelve
million dollars that fits in their.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Budget, and I was a big advocate for the Mariners
doing that at the trading deadline last year. I think
he is a legit bat. Doesn't have the full on
like power forty to fifty home run power, obviously, but
I think his profile actually adds a lot of what
the Mariners need hitting in the lineup. He's actually a
pretty contact heavy first baseman, hits the ball really hard,

(12:42):
gets puts it in play, doesn't really strike out a
lot either. So I'd be a huge advocate for Yandy Diaz.
I didn't even think about that until you brought it
up now with Bucky, So I like that. I think
that is an option, but you wonder what you'd have
to give up.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
I think he represents an upgrade, yes, and you are
also talking. I mean, we had a discussion last week
about how the trade market really isn't as robust, which
is another thing that I think that they may have
potentially misread, thinking they could go into the normal off
season and just move not your favorite prospects, but some

(13:18):
prospector guys, right, And it turns out that as I
try to map out and maybe not very well. When
we had this last conversation back in twenty twenty, COVID
time all there were a lot of teams at that
time that use that as an excuse to rebuild. Well,
guess what those rebuilds are over. Yes, so there aren't

(13:39):
many sellers on the market. There are going to be
a lot of teams this year, which is awesome for baseball,
that are going to be going for it, that are
making moves to make the playoffs. They can't make Dodgers moves,
Mets moves, Yankee moves, but they can make moves that
can get you into the playoffs. So most of baseball

(13:59):
is in that mode. You saw Naylor get moved because
the Guardians and the Rays and the A's, he like,
they're ready to go other teams in the other teams
in Major League Baseball, they're always gonna move on from
a guy with one or two years left. So I
would think that Diaz is available. Yeah, I would think

(14:21):
that you could give I mean, you're gonna have to
give up more than what Arizona gave.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Up for Naylor.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, and he's not nearly the power threat that what Naylor's,
and he's not nearly as young as what Naylor's.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
No, he's not, but I think he's a more fit,
he's a more proven commodity. Uh like the last Let's
read his last five years in terms of ops plus
one sixteen, one fifty seven, one forty two, one ten
and one thirty three. He's been a pretty significantly above
average hitter for the last five years, including a five
point two war year in twenty twenty three where he

(14:56):
hit nine to thirty two ops. So he's he's a dude.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
And what's the age.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
He's thirty sorry, thirty two?

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, and and and this is the reality of this,
he might be thirty four. Yeah, you know that's just
his body well in terms of this actual actual age. Yes, so,
and that's just that's that's how it goes. Yes, that's yes,
thank you. That's just part of the game. The other

(15:28):
thing that you have to bring up when you talk
about Yandy Diaz is that apparently he and Randy a
Rose Arena hate one another, really like hate one another,
like we have to get rid of one of them
at the trading deadline, and they got rid of a
Rose Arena. So you would be inviting that into your
Clubhouse as well, which at this stage I'm willing to

(15:50):
take on because I think all three of those infield
positions need to be upgraded, or at least you got
to break even. Turner represents a break even move. Yeah,
I'm okay with that if you will get a lot
better at second and third d Oz I think would
represent an upgrade. Yes, And then that gives you with

(16:11):
Raleigh flexibility to keep him in the role that he
should be in, and that's play some first play, some
outfield DHS. That's what Raley.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Would be And that opens up trading Randy too, if
you wanted to.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Do that, Well, that's really what I want to do. Yeah,
you know, I mean, that's really what I want to
do if.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
That is a thing. And obviously the Marriagers would go
to Randy and be like, hey, is this legit? Do
you not like him? If the reports are true, then yeah,
I think that's an option I'm open to. Obviously, I'd
like to keep both. I'd like to have two really
good hitters in the lineup because I think Randy represents
one of your best options in the outfield, especially with

(16:50):
kind of the uncertainty of Victor Robliss. I don't think
he's going to be in I mean, he'll probably be
an everyday player, but he won't be what he was
last year. So that's something where you need to kind
of plan for a little regression in that sense. And
I think rand you know what Randy is at this point,
and then you got Luke Raley as well, so you
can kind of those four outfielders with Julio. You can
kind of shuffle around a little bit to kind of

(17:12):
keep guys hot, and then you know, give a couple
of rest days here and there to the corner guys,
and then an upgrade at first base with Yandi Diaz.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
So give me Diaz. Yes, I'll put him at first Yeah,
I'll even take Turner back. You think so, I mean,
I know, I don't, but I don't. I don't dislike Turner. Okay,
you're right, that's redundant. So give me Diaz and then
if I'll trade with Philadelphia a rose Arena for Boom.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
If they want to one.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
They both have two years left on their deals.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, it's pretty fair even. I think that's about the
same player level.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, they were trying to move on from Costianos, so
you've gotten cheaper there in the outfield, and then maybe
you can afford to get Bregman like they'd been rumored
to do. So I don't know. That's just me spitballing
right now, but all of it is a part of
this conversation about wake up. Yeah, I mean last year

(18:12):
something you are absolutely right. Last year it took just
as long to get going, and by the end of it,
and there were a lot of twists and turns, and
they seemed like very strange trades, and by the end
of it, I felt they'd improve the Teamah, they hadn't.
As it turns out, the offense was worse. They struck

(18:33):
out more somehow, somehow. But the point is that it
is a long off season, and all that matters is
that you have improved the roster by the time we
get to spring training or better yet, to opening day.
So there's not much need to panic like the timeline.
But when you start seeing the market, you know, you

(18:58):
can go grocery shopping whenever you want. If they don't
have peaches, then they don't have peaches, and you're going
to have to figure out another way to make cobbler. Yeah,
you know what I mean exactly, So that's starting to
worry me, like you're running out of pieces to fill
your greatest needs. And if they're not the obvious ones,

(19:19):
free agents or a or a bomb where the Phillies
have announced to the world he's available, then all of
a sudden, guess what you end up doing. You reach
out for a boba shit. Yeah, and now you overpay
for a guy for one year coming off an atrocious year.
And that's not where That's not how you shop the

(19:41):
off season. You're looking for deals, and you're looking for
wherever you can save a buck and wherever you can
keep a prospect that you don't want to part with.
But if you get to the point where you've been
outraced to everybody on your wish list, now all of
a sudden you're going to overreach for or a position

(20:01):
or three and screw up your entire offseason plan.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Well, and that's the difference between this year and last year,
I think is because you know, the Mariners can have
the same approach, but the rest of the market isn't
right the other the rest of the market was with
the Mariners last year and waiting and waiting and waiting
and waiting, and mostly until o'shawnee OTAWNI happened. But I
just but is that's your job?

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, it is to read the market and to understand
the market, and the moment the market starts to move,
you gotter be able to react. This weekend, you saw
the perfect domino of that Walker ends up with Houston
Diamondbacks get nailor Santana goes to Cleveland to replace Naylor.
It was a study and teams were prepared. If this

(20:51):
plan falls through, we've got Plan B, yeah, and they
were ready to jump on it. The only thing we've
heard about from this organization is Plan Z and anders
are we already there?

Speaker 1 (21:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
I mean, we're not that far away from you having
no choice but to start a trade a starting pitcher
for offense because you can't start this season with Shenton
at third and Bliss at second and Locklear at first. No,
you cannot trying to win up effing World Series here.

(21:24):
We can't just call up Tacoma and fill those holes.
So you're going to end up at plan Z and
that's a that's defeat. That's a tough place to be.
Its defeat definitely a tough place to be. Side note
I kind of just thought about this while we were
talking about all the first basement moves. How about the

(21:45):
shrewdness of the Diamondbacks in the last few years, Right,
they get rid of Goldschmidt, who is like a fan
favorite guy. Everyone was like, oh my god, you're going
down to the dumps.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
But they replace him with Walker, who the last three
years has probably been than gold Schmid, definitely last year,
but gold Schmuth was an MVP guy two years ago,
so you could probably have a wash in that. But
they replace a fan favorite, you know, your biggest guy
in your lineup, with a guy that is supplementing him
in that same way. And they do the same thing

(22:16):
and not not re signing Christian Walker and then getting
another Josh Naylor. They've refilled that spot without having to
necessarily pay that huge contract.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
I think they've gotten very smart, yes, in that organization.
I think it's why they ended up in the World
Series and they were competitive again this year. But I
think that they've gotten Mike Haysen has done a very
good job with the Arizona Diamondbacks and taking them from
a team you easily dismissed to know what looks to
be an annual at least contender.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
In a very good division, by the way, and for
years to come. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, and they're
in a brutal division.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, as a matter of fact. But this is what
you have to study. I mean, the Naylor trade goes
down and then you got you know, you go to
Twitter and then half the fan base is freaking out
that they're running out, and then the other half like, no,
big deal. There's no way that Josh Naylor for one

(23:13):
year is worth Emerson Hancock for five or a draft pick. Yes,
it's like it's like, no, these are the moves you
make when you're ready to contend. Yes, And as I
said before, Josh Naylor, if he becomes available at the
trading deadline, teams will give up that much in trade

(23:37):
capital for two months rental exactly in the off season.
You will get him for six months. And look, I
don't think Josh Naylor is going to be great for
long because I think he takes terrible care of himself. Right,
he's all I mean, he's twenty seven years old. Fat,
let's be But that's not the investment you're making. You're

(23:58):
floating a prosper or two for Naylor, and the Diamondbacks
gave up a draft pick and a top twenty prospect. Yeah,
and then everybody's Then the reaction is, I'm not giving
up Emerson and Young for one year of Nail? Who's
asking you to? I don't want them to give up
those guys either, But there's got to be somebody in

(24:20):
your farm system that you don't have Candy Hearts over
your head about that. I mean, you don't have one
guy in your top twenty that you're willing to part
with that you're willing to part with they get Josh.
I mean, how long are we gonna wait on Emerson Hancock?
How many times are we gonna tell him at spring
training there's no room for you in the starting rotation.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
I think he's worth more than one year of Josh
Naylor too. Maybe he's worth two years of Yondi Diaz.
I don't know, but at some point, you know, you
got to make do something that makes you a little
uncomfortable financially or prospect wise to try to win.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Flipping Now, I'm with you, I'm with you. I think
they need to take swing. As much as I opposed
the Luis Castillo trade, I think we're kind of getting
to the point where you have to entertain it because
there's some you got to make this team better, you got,
especially this offense, and I don't I would be disappointed.

(25:16):
Like I think more of what I was trying to
explain was I think he's just that good, and I
realize he hasn't had the best year and a half,
He's still been a really good starting pitcher for you.
And I think one thing that is kind of hesitating
Jerry to trade either him or anyone Hancock whoever, is
because there's there's gotta be some sort of regression when

(25:39):
it comes to the health of the starting pitching, Like
you can't expect five guys to make every single start.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
You can't expect it. But we also, in the same
breath have to give them credit. Yes, I mean it's
it's not just happier twice the last three years. It's
not flukish right, Well, i'd even go back to the year.
Haven't they done like three in the last five because
back the way back to Mark, Yeah, you're right, they
only use five yeah, right, So they obviously are pretty
good at this and it's certainly what I'm selling. Roki

(26:07):
Sasaki not cause he's a little too old for us.
That's certainly what I'm selling Roki Sasaki is we're better
at this than anybody. So there is some skill and
there is some credit. It's not just a fluke. And
they're not untouchable either. Robbie Ray was a huge investment
and he blew out his arm. So so from that standpoint,

(26:28):
I don't want to trade Luis Castillo either, which is
something I should probably make clear on this episode. I
like him. I think he's good, and I don't think
it should have to come to this. You should be
able to keep him and added a Christian Walker. It
wouldn't have destroyed you. You know, you get up to
one hundred and eighty million dollar payroll when you're in
a championship window. Do you really want to finish one

(26:50):
win out of the playoffs for a third year in
a row, you know, And so I don't want to
give him up. But it is feeling Andrews very very
much like there might not be you had a choice
in this. Yeah, like plan Z is coming fast.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, I think so, and it sucks, but I think
you need to do something another quick move after the
whole uh, you know, the Walker, the Santana the Low
that kind of domino pop. There there was another option
out there for the Mariners. It was within a division rival,
Nathaniel Low, left handed first baseman for the Texas Rangers.

(27:26):
He ends up getting traded to the Nationals. Would you
have wanted Nathaniel Low on the Mariners? Do you think
that would have represented an upgrade? Obviously it's not happening now,
But what do you think about Nathaniel Low to the Nationals?

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Well, the know my problem with that is if Rayley's
the counterpart. They're both left handed hitters. They both struggle
against lefties like Low was getting benched. I mean he
was a silver slugger guy two years ago for the Rangers, yep,
and he was getting First of all, they waited him
for him to come back from an injury, and then
he was getting benched, yeah, late summer against left handers

(27:56):
because he just wasn't effective. Again, it wasn't even on
my radar to even look into. But then again, the
last time.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
We talked, there was four more guys Avail.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
There were seven first basement that we were discussing, So
he wasn't even on my radar to sort of look
into and I doubt that he would have ever been
made available within the division.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, that's the other thing.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
So it doesn't crush me. But I think it's a
really smart move for the Nationals, a young up and
coming team that could use like a veteran presence, and
they didn't give up much to get him.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
So I thought it was really a left handed reliever. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I thought it was a really clever moved by the Nationals.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, I completely agree. I would have at least, you know,
taking a phone call and be like, hey, is this
guy available, because it represents an upgrade. Like we talked about,
you just have three holes in your lineup right now,
so let's move on to the other two for second
and third base. There's a little more available than in
first base at this point in time. How do you

(28:53):
feel about where we are right now at second base
and then what is available on the market.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Well, we have to fill second base. I know, I
realized they're saying in house, but now we're we're in
code red here, like obviously you're not going to get
the first baseman you were hoping to get. So if
we're gonna if we're going to accept Raley and Locklear potentially,

(29:21):
then you have no choice but to upgrade the other two.
You're not gonna can be an in house. So you've
got your guy Glabor, who I don't want, I know,
but not because of talent. It's because I don't like
the way he plays. Yeah, and so, but you're also
getting to the point where if you're not going to

(29:42):
upgrade first, I mean, are you really going to just
get one of You're just gonna get ice on Kim
and roll the dice on whether or not he's going
to hit the ground rolling. I don't think you can
do that. At least you know that Torres is a
major league caliber second baseman with flashes of stardom in
his game. And maybe this is where you lean on

(30:05):
Perry Hill to stay on his ass so that he's
not a numb nut like he's been for the Yankees.
I mean, they ran him out of town. They just
they don't want to. They don't want anything to do
with him anymore. So, but he does represent a talent infusion,
a talent upgrade at second base. I also like Hassan Kim,

(30:26):
but another guy that's just gonna add like those little intangibles.
He's going to put the ball in play. Who of
your three upgrades at first, second, and third can actually
crush the baseball. It's not going to be either of
the Kims, So you might have to entertain make a
shot a Torres at that point if he's even in
your price, because he's probably going to cost seventeen to

(30:49):
twenty million dollars a year. Somebody's gonna pay him that.
So Yeah, at the beginning of the I was good
with either of the Kims, but I was also going
to get us a first basement.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
That and I think that's the big distinction is I
would have been fine with what you have at second base.
Now if you had significantly upgraded first and third base,
you have to at least get two of the three, right.
If you do first and second, then you're okay kind
of figuring out what happens at third base. If you
can end up getting first and third, you can do
that at second base, and so on and so forth.

(31:22):
I mean, it just seems like options available wise that
the most likely scenario of those is that they kind
of do whatever they can at first base and then
they get like a Kim and then a boom at
third base. If at that ended up being and what happens.
Do you think that is something you would be okay
with Boom? Kim Rayley Locklear.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
I think it's I think it's better than we ended
last year with Okay. I don't think it fills the
requirement of the upgrade essential enough to make us feel
like the offense will at least be.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Good, especially if you ended up trading one of your
starting pitchers for Boom. To make that part worse, you
have to out. Yeah, then there's that exactly.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Now there's nobody I mean this Castillo for Boom. Would
you do that?

Speaker 1 (32:21):
I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
No, I mean, I mean it's a difference in payroll, that's.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
You can spend it more. I don't know's that's a
tough one.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
But I'll tell you what, I don't even know if
he's even available anymore. Yeah, because the Billy's acquired hezus
Lozardo over the weekend. And that's another thing about the
market that I trust they're paying attention to, is because
if you do get to plan z and you want
to trade a pitcher, well, the Mets just signed Manea. Yep,

(32:54):
the Red Sox just signed Walker Buehler plus traded for
Crochet this offseason, and now you've got, uh, what was
the name we just talked.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
About, the Japanese guy on the on the Red Sox.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
No, no, no, no, no, no. The team we just talked about.
We just finished talking about Phillies. Yeah, the Phillies with Lizardo.
They they just they just took themselves off the pitcher market. Yeah,
so now you don't even you're not even shopping your
excess pitching and a loaded market anymore. And the Cups
seem to have pulled back on Nico Horner because of

(33:32):
their Tucker acquisition and they gave up parades, so now
they're not looking to move any more infielders. So that's
just what I'm talking about. It's like the pond is
drying up and and and we still don't have a
single fish in the boat, right, And so I'm am
worried about it. And I am okay if you eventually

(33:55):
get to the point and have to trade one of
these starting pitchers, But I'm not going to be okay
with just accepting, oh, the market was just didn't work
in our favor. So Locklear, Bliss and Shinton, Yeah, I
mean that's unacceptable, right, that's when you do go. That's
when the mollywop guys get away with ban going to

(34:17):
the games, because that's what you deserve if you got
that buffaloed in the off season, or if ownership is
so cheap that they're not going to invest in anything
more to try to make this team a championship team.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah. Well, I was looking around the rumor mill over
the weekend. I don't know if you saw this, but
an option that did seemingly become available was Spencer Steer
of the Reds. Are you interested?

Speaker 2 (34:49):
I am to a degree.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
What happened to him?

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Like he was a couple of years ago, they thought that.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
He was MVP level, Like he was really good three
years ago twenty twenty three, he had a three war
season eight twenty oh ps uh, really good player.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
More of a not really a defensive guy. He probably
fits better in like a utility role.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yep, left field, first and third is kind of what
he's listed on Baseball Reference.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
But to have him in the lineup, but you know,
we can do that today with utility guys. They can
still be in the lineup.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Just turned twenty seven, so he's still.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, I almost forgot about him.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Yeah, that's made him available. Supposedly, a lot of reports
saying so.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
You might have you might have stumbled upon something sounds
like something that Jerry likes.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, and that clamation project exactly. Well, I mean, and
he didn't even have that terrible of the year last year.
We just had a lot of injuries. Like, let's see,
played in one hundred and fifty eight games, so you know,
he actually we didn't have a lot of injuries last
I don't.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Think I played third or second for you.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah. Yeah, he could play all the way across the infield. Yeah,
he was six and rookie first too.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, so I mean that that sounds like something you
could entertain. I've always been a good fan of his
play first, third, second, left field.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
If you need him to wouldn't cost much. But he's
a hard thing to sell to the fan base, Yeah,
because not many marinerd fans are gonna have heard of
Spencer Steer before, that's for sure. But if you get
him and that protects you, I mean, because that allows
you to keep shopping for all three and then he's
just cheap. Who's your fallback for whatever position you can't fill? Exactly,

(36:28):
He can fill that void. Yeah, i'd say put that
into play. I can't say that I've watched a lot
of Spencer Steer, but I know he hit the snot
out of the ball two years ago. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yeah. Twenty twenty three, at age twenty five, he was
sixth in Rookie of the Year voting at an eight to
twenty ops played in one hundred and fifty six games.
He's he's been a pretty solid player. He had hit
two seventy one two years ago and than two twenty
five last year. Not as big of a difference in
his sluggy numbers. It was his strikeouts went up a
little bit, which is a little concerning. But is He's

(37:01):
still a pretty young player. It was only a second
year in the league. He's shown that he has the
flashes to be that guy. But I'm wondering, maybe is
there a reason the Reds are looking to get rid
of him. I mean, well, first of all, they are
loaded middle endfield. Yeah, you're right, that's a good point.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
So, I mean they got rid of Jonathan India this
offseason as well. But I don't think that he was
really some major prospect for them coming up. I think
he was sort of overachieving every step of the way,
including his rookie year. So even though Jerry loves his
reclamation projects, he also loves guys that he evaluated highly

(37:37):
from the beginning of the process, like JP Crawford of
the world, and then buy them low. So I can't
sit here and tell you if he's got a positive
evaluation of Spencer. Steer's talent seems to be a bit
more of a grinder, yeah, than he is a talent,
which I think we need. Sure that got to the majors,

(37:59):
you know, hard work, blood, sweat and tears versus somebody
that scouts were drooling over that type of player. So
I don't think it's a bad idea. I don't think
it would cost much. He certainly's not going to hurt
your payroll. I don't think you'd have it costs much.
I mean, he's not tradewise, trade wise, and then he

(38:20):
can potentially be a super utility player for you, and
if things really don't work out this offseason, he gives
you a fail safe at three different positions. Yeah, and
I wouldn't playhim in the outfield, No, No, I.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Probably wouldn't either, And maybe he can fill in every
once in a while if you need someone to give
a day off. But whatever, one more piece that hasn't
fallen yet that is available. I still struggle to see
how those sort of work out for the Mariners. But
Nolan Aronado obviously has been made available by the Saint
Louis Cardinals. Any interest at all in terms of a

(38:55):
trade that has them take on some salary or god
for in a Luis Castile for Nolan Aeronono.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
T no, no, no, okay, I'm not doing that, okay,
but I would be interested if you ate a lot
of the salary. I'm not going to take all the
money that I have this offseason and invested in a
third baseman who's been showing steady decline for the last
few years. I mean he's going Hall of Fame. Yeah,
oh yeah, there probably is a hidden special year. We
see this a lot with major leaguers. I mean, Frank

(39:23):
Thomas had been written off for three years. He got
to Oakland put together damn near an MVP season. Greats
might have. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised Paul Goldschmid
doesn't have a bounce back with the Yankees. He might
have one more Edgar did this. Edgar did this here
in Seattle. He had that one more fantastic year after
three years of people thinking that he was washed two

(39:46):
three years, and so the greats tend to have one
more in them. So I would take a chance on him,
but they would have to eat an awful lot of
the salary. And then from that, from that po I
got to convince him to play here. Yeah, I mean,
he's already turned down the Astros, so apparently he's got

(40:07):
Dodger Blue in mind. That's the only place he really
wants to go. And he has like a strict no
trade clause, so he has to approve whatever move there is.
Maybe by springtime if.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
He's still not moved, he accepts something.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah, he accepts something to you know, Seattle and starting
third base. So I wouldn't kick him out of the
kick him out of the clubhouse for eating crackers to
turn a phrase.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
That I like that.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Yeah, but yeah, I don't. I think his good days
are behind him, not just his best. Yeah, I think
it's good to I think he could still provide leadership.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
And he was a league average hitter last year, which yeah,
is tough for how much you'd be paying him. I mean,
obviously you wouldn't be paying them that much, at least
the Mariners wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
And he's one of the greatest defensive third basement of
all time. And yet even he's acknowledging maybe I'm not
so good at it anymore. I'll move to first if
you need me to.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Yeah. So yeah, that's that's that's one more third base
option out there. I think, uh, we kind of exhausted
most of the big names one quick one Cody Bellinger
to the New York Yankees. Who were your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (41:18):
I actually had a trade. I was gonna pitch you
if he hadn't been traded, okay, and that was gonna
be Castillo. Gosh, but now I gotta remember it. Castillo,
Hannager and I had something else in there. I know
I had something else.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
And a lot of salary you're getting rid of.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Still, well, you're going to take some on. People were
taking on bell and still Hanniger, and I think it
was Bliss. Maybe it was Bliss, Okay, Stell Hanniger and
Bliss for Bellinger and horner O.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
What I've taken that that's tough.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
You eat our seventeen million dollar contract for one year
that we don't want, and we'll eat your barriers twenty
seven million dollars per year for two years you don't want.
You do get the starting pitchicture that gives us some relief,
more financial to get a second basement, and then we
get a second basement out of it. So I was
gonna pitch that one value wise.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
I think that's pretty even. I think I've cooled off
on Cody Bellinger, I really have. I don't know. He
didn't have a great year last year.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
He's a total wildcard.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I still think what
Louise Castile would give you would give you more. I
would be interested in Horner, but if there's any way
to not, I'm just parts also dumping Hannagers. Then that's
a big part of it. Which I think Bellinger is
gonna be better than Hannager next year, but at what cost?

(42:50):
So I don't I probably would still say no to
that one.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
How about this one? Got another good one?

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Castillo for Luis or Eyes and Dylan Cees, Oh, I
take that.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
I definitely take that.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
O right, No, no, But now we got to explain
it because they're both on one year deals, so you
are getting them both one year and then they're leaving.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Well, Castillez only on it two years, left.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Three with I think you have club option for free,
so you could be hold on them for three So
the Padres would be getting somebody under control, makes a
decent salary that slots into their starting rotation for the
next three years. And we get two guys that we
know we're just renting for a year but are good,

(43:37):
but are very good.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yeah, so Cease replaces Castillo, a Rise gives you the
first baseman, and you know you're just renting both of them.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah, now I think about that. I don't know, I
don't know. I know Arias is vaunted over his contact approach.
He didn't have a great year last year. He barely
hit three hundred, which is like, I know, it's crazy
in today's world, but for him, who doesn't hit any
doubles or any sort of slugging whatsoever, doesn't walk at all,

(44:11):
his defense is okay, it's not.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Probably not even okay.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah, it's not great.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
I love you getting a stud stary.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
I know I was gonna say I love Dylan Ceas.
I still think Louis Castillo is a better pitcher than
Dylan CEA's personally, and you'd be having you'd be having
him for more years. So I'd probably now that I
think about it, what'd say no to that one? Too?

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yeah, I'm bullish on Castillo. I really think he's a
top ten to twenty starting pitcher in this league.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
I think I do that one.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
You wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
I mean, it's it's like going back to the crystal
ball on the former thing.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, so you now that one? I would do?

Speaker 2 (44:43):
See, you know, you know, getting making a move that
Screams were trying to win right now goes a long way.
And recognizing that we can still have the best starting
rotation in the American League even without steal. Well, we're
not getting into the playoffs if we don't improve this offense,

(45:04):
right And so from that standpoint, I think that they
need a win win now move.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Well, Yeah, and it's all about it, and you clear
the books.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
For the following year, and now you've cleared twenty four
million dollars that you can spend after that year. But
for one year you get a first basement and an
ace pitcher right to replace Castile. I think a lot
of people would argue Case is better than Castill.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, I know a lot of people would. I just
I know I'm bullish on Castillo. I think he's great,
He's super consistent. I think he's going to have a
nut necessari of bounce backs. He wasn't bad last year,
but I think he's going to have another ace like
year in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
All right, now, I'm going to really opin you down right,
Let's do it. Let's play some chos your own adventure. So,
considering where we are right now, you can trade Castillo
for offense. Right, like we've talked reallocating the twenty four
million per year on bats to shore up your weakness,
even if it does weaken a strength or dus strength,

(46:02):
you can keep Castillo. This is option to use the
sixteen to twenty million dollars that you've created by dumping Polonko,
Rojas and others that we are led to believe and
I'm not even sure I believe this anymore, that they're
willing to spend on free agency. And then you can
just do what you've done the last couple of years.
Go shop at the bargain store, wait for the market

(46:24):
to play itself out, and you can just go with
the theory that has narrowly missed two years in a row,
that our pitching is so good that all we need
to do is just upgrade slightly offensively and we're going
to be fine. And then the third option is you

(46:45):
trade one of your young Guysilbert, Kirby, Miller, Wu, whatever,
and you trade them for young controllable bat or two.
This is where maybe Baltimore comes into play, maybe you know,
Mill for Westburg. I would say, and something else. I'm

(47:05):
pretty sure an oriole fan would say, no, even a
Causus from Boston something like that.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
It's true.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Actually, you're gonna have to give a lot more than
Causus if you want Gilbert or Kirby. Yeah, but but yeah.
So to me, those are the three options that you're
gonna end up with. So choose your adventures. Which one
do you want to do? I'm gonna hold you to that.
I know.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
I know there's positives to all three of these options,
and there's negatives to all three of these options. I
think the most likely path to success for the Mariners
is option three. I think the most likely what they're
going to do is option two.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
God dang it, you're right.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
But I think the most realistic option and to make
this team like really really good, would be option one.
It really I would choose one, but it really really
depends on what you get in return. Like it, you

(48:09):
have to get a sure thing. That's why I would
be in for the Kyle Schwarburn Alec Bohm. Those are
two guys that have been here and done that.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
I mean, maybe I bit off more than I can
chew with that, but ideas, think about the salaries, Like
you're looking to get rid of Bomb and he's only
under contract for two years, and then Schwarber's only on
your contract for one year yea, and Castillo's under your contract.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
For threee Yeah, so that averages.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Out, yeah, and then we're gonna give I also had
Munos in that trade.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
I remember, I I like Munos a lot. Again, same thing,
but I would be willing to part with a reliever
for to get those two guys and and Castio like that.
That is a return I think would be significantly improving
your offense. But I I think how this front office works,

(49:01):
I think the best way forward for me would probably
be option three. I think that's gonna be where you
find the most value, where you have an offensive piece
that you're willing to like put your offense behind for
multiple years. And I still think, like, whether it's Wu, Miller,

(49:25):
Kirby or Gilbert, one of those guys is gonna move
on eventually.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
We're not going to pay them all five years exactly,
so and they're not all im go to stay healthy exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
And I love them all, I honestly, I really really do.
You've already paid Castillo, So that's kind of what makes
me think like you can just hold on to him
and get like a sure thing, young controllable bat. I'm
just trying to think of the top of the head.
Besides the Orioles, who else needs like kind of a young,
controllable starting pitcher that has everybody wants that, but that has.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Some of that's the problem. The young guys not just
offensive piece bad offensive depth right that they could they
could throw in there, Man who would leap to mind?
I should have an ongoing list of this. But you
know Red Sox and Cassas is an example, and and
I'm you know, maybe Sadaian Rafaela would be thrown into

(50:20):
a trade. And that gives you a versatile, young offensive player.
So maybe that's an option for you. Who else would
be in that boat? Uh? You know it's gonna be
a it's going to be your small market club. It's
gonna be your like I'm like a Milwaukee you know.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Uh, let me throwing out there, Hayes.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Once upon a time I would have said, yes, you
can't even imagine what a bad offensive player is.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Yeah, like what happened? Yeah, I don't know where did
that was supposed to be the guy?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Uh huh. He's a great defender, definitely plugs a third basel.
But I'm certainly not trading anybody any of these were
starting pitchers for him. Would I trade somebody down my
prospect list for him? See if I can revive him? Yeah,
do that, But I'm not trading one of the East
for him. I think that I Look, you said something

(51:22):
that maybe we haven't talked about enough this offseason. I mean,
we know how this organization operates. We're not going to
have five pitchers in our starting rotation, all making twenty
five forty million dollars a year. And that's what Gilbert
and Kirby are certainly headed toward Miller and will have
more proving ground, and Rule's got to prove that he

(51:43):
can stay healthy. But we're not gonna We're not gonna
wake up in twenty twenty seven and have one hundred
million dollars per year invested in our starting rotation. So
that move's going to come at some point. But maybe
if you moved to Castillo now and got your offense
and then that offensive piece turns into something, well, that

(52:08):
offensive piece is something that helps you win now but
walks away in a year or two, And now that
salary freeze.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Out available for Gilbert or Kirby.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
I don't even I really honestly think Andrews that Kirby
or Gilbert will be a long time Mariner. You think, so,
I don't think both, not both. And then I think
the same thing will happen with Ni, Miller or Wu
and figuring out when the right time to trade the
other is all they're figuring out. They are not thinking

(52:41):
about having all five of them.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
So, I mean, don't be surprised with that third pick
in the draft. They don't take a starting pitcher. It's
what they do best. They can get the number one
arm in the entire draft, and they start putting their
ducks in a row for replacing when they do say
goodbye in a trade, they won't ever let him reach
free agency in a trade. To get assets back and

(53:10):
keep yourself from having to pay the freight on a
ace starter's salary, you can only you probably you can
only afford one.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Yeah, it's a tough start you have now, right, So
would you rather get rid of the guy that's making
anything now or would you rather kind of get ahead
of that and maybe trying.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
I honestly don't think they have any choice but to
trade the guy that's making money now, okay, and then
feel good that we have the starting rotation to win
a work to make the playoffs. Let's not talk about
winning serious. We have a starting rotation to make the playoffs,
and then use the twenty four million to get hitters
and veteran hitters whose contracts are probably going to expire,

(53:53):
and then take that money once they expire, invest it,
choose your guy, Gilbert or Kirby, and then you move
the one, and then you get a crap load in
return for them while they still have a couple of
years left making virtually no money, or at least in
their arbitration years. And then you do you repeat the
same damn thing with Miller or Wu and you have

(54:17):
sent Jay who they took with a first round pick
this past year as well. So you know, that's that,
I think is how this thing is going to develop
and operate. And so for me, even though I like him,
maybe not as much as you, but nearly as much
as you, for you to get the offense that you
need right now to make the playoffs with a little

(54:39):
bit of a wiggle room to spare, and then see
what we can do in the playoffs toward the World Series.
You move Castillo now and you get the offense.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
And I think, like I said, it depends on what
you get in return, but I think that's the most
likely path for success for the twenty twenty five Seattle Mariners.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
Right.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
That means you can reinvest that money instantly. I think
the most likely path for success for the long term
is probably trading one of the younger guys, and then
the most realistic is what they're gonna do is keep
all of them and try and Nickel and Diamond the
other position.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
How disappointing, Yeah, would that be?

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Yeah? I don't know, man, random thought like.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
You said, like I mean, let's figure out, like best
case scenario, you're going to spend a little bit of money,
drop a little bit of money on two of.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Those three positions, right right, So.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
It's like Haisan Kim trading a piece, a good piece
for Alec Bohm and then living with Locklear and Race.
That's like best case scenario right now at this point. Yes,
and if you want to go YONDI Diaz. All right,
So now we've got the ten twelve million out of
the sixteen, we can apparently spend okay on first base

(55:49):
and then you live in house with this more uh
whoever else and then say I'm not thinking about right now?
Oh young?

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Yeah? Uh?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
And then third base. You've got to find a third
base something even under even under a Pia sitting areo.
And he's not on the free agent mark.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
No, no you can't. You can't find a four million,
five million dollars for his basement. No, you got a.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Trade for a third basement as well. So there goes
another piece out the door.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Yeah, that's I don't envy this front office group. I
really don't. I mean, at some.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Point I'm not I'm not all about patting him on
the back, right, or lighting their cigar.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yeah, random name that came up on my feet here.
I was just kind of looking through pieces where I
would feel comfortable trading one of our younger starting pictures,
Ezekiel Tovar from uh Colorado.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
I don't think they they don't want yeah, I mean
they have nothing there and I don't think getting a
starting pitcher with two years, well, they could get Miller
or Wu. I think they're in love with Tovar really yeah,
I don't think he's available.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
He's twenty three and he's he had a really good
rookie year.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Well, they're they're all. They have no choice. They That's
the crazy thing about the Colorado Rockins when they're not
in rebuild mode. They got that bad trying to go
for Yeah, so Chris Bryant, there were people that wanted
Ryan McMahon. I would imagine the Mariners though, too, and
he was not available. So they're not They're that bad

(57:23):
without even rebuilding. That is insane.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
That's how bad.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
The same Well the White Sox, Ye, the White Sox
were record setting with their losses and there weren't even
in a rebuild until this middle of this year, and
then they made moves at the trading deadline, and now
they've traded Crochet and yes, you know, you know another
guy hadn't even come up this offseason is Louis Robert

(57:48):
and they're moving him, moving on from him too.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Well, it's because I think we kind of have the
outfield figured out at this point at least.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
And you can't have Robert in a Rose Arena in
the same zip code. There's no chance.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
I don't know, man, I I really hope they end
up maybe surprising us, swinging something that we didn't expect.
That's kind of what Jerry does. He always ends up
with these trades kind of out of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
They're going to do something, Yeah, and it's probably going
to be met with Jeers. I don't think we're going
to get anything sensational. But my fear is, and the
reason that we're having today's stove is I'm telling you,
I'm fearing that they misread the market. And I'm also
fearing that they have fallen in love with all of

(58:38):
their prospects and that is a paralytic position to get
to as a front office. Well, I once watched the
Angels do this. Yeah, the Angels a long time ago.
You won't even remember these names, but Dallas McPherson and
you know, Garrett Anderson and Darren Urstad, and they had
all these guys coming up through their system. The short

(59:00):
stuff was supposed to be the best of all of them.
A couple of them worked, a couple of them crashed out.
They kept them all and never got where they wanted
to go.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
And they were like a borderline playoff team in the
early two thousands.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
And yeah, yeah, and you can't. You can't fall in
love with everybody. And if you're not going to spend,
then you got to move prospects, right, you don't have
a choice.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Something.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
You have to create strike moves. This is a sports
are about finishing. It's not just about hey, rebuilding to
the point where you're competitive. You know, you did a
lot of great work, a lot of hard work went
into this, and you've missed the playoffs by a game

(59:47):
for two years in a row. How do you just
want to barely get in. You got to do something significant,
and you got to do something significant to improve your weakness.
And if that costs Luis Castillo, even though I love them, yeah,
I'm willing to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Yeah, I've been more open to that recently, just because
I can't see anything on this offense working. But here's
me praying for Spencer Steer, for Yandi Diaz and then
maybe one other.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Bat Spencer Steer your third baseman, Yandi Dias.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
First, and then I would be okay with you know,
kind of maybe a kim like I have a.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Feeling we're not gonna love that lineup on opening day.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Yeah, I mean I like it more than I like
it now. Yes, that's all matters at this point. I'll
give you that one more thought before we leave. You
mentioned the falling in love with your prospects. I just
wonder if the Mariners at this point in time are
seeing what happened to the Orioles and you know, all
their guys coming up and pretty much all of them hitting.

(01:00:51):
And you've mentioned this before. The difference between the two
is the Orioles were bad, so they had a lot
of top picks. These are like top prospects that are
all coming up.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Now, Okay, I love that mindset. Yes, it's how I
would build this organization. And I know that doesn't make
a lot of Mariner fans happy, but I would do it,
not like the Orioles. Because they've got If you think
our payroll is low, go check their payroll out. I
don't want to go to that extreme, and they don't

(01:01:20):
have to go to that extreme. But I am trying
to keep my farm system together. These fans out there,
they're like, we got to go all in. No, no,
don't go all in. You really want to go through
a rebuild again in five years two years? I don't.
So I do agree, whether people disagree with me or not,

(01:01:41):
I agree with Jerry's assessment of building through the farm system,
creating a sustainable product, being a playoff team for decades,
and then by doing that you will win a World Series.
You will go to multiple World Series. You know, I
believe in that. Yeah, I think one thousand percent. It's
how the Mariners should be operated.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
But but.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
You're now in a championship window, by your own declaration,
going on the fourth year. Where are the finishing moves?

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
And you're not going to get to that point like
you mentioned, like going to the playoffs every year. The
reason that happens is because you know you still have
these this crop of prospects that keep recycling in, but
you have to make just a couple moves here, and
there to put you over the top. At those points
in time, take advantage of where you're at.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
They were aggressive at the trading deadline when they got Castillo,
and they were aggressive at the trading deadline this past year. Right,
They've also had trading deadlines where they made a bunch
of sideways moves that pissed us all off. But what
they haven't done is what Baltimore did this past year.
We have a great young offensive team. If you want

(01:02:55):
any of our offensive players, boy, you better back up
the Brinks truck, right because we're not trading them away.
We got something special going on here. Ours happens to
be in the area of pitching. But what did the
Orioles do. We get Corbyn Burns for a couple of
our not so favorite prospects, and he gives us a
chance for one year old series and we only get

(01:03:17):
it for one year, but he gives us a chance
to win the World Series. And I know that they
got knocked down in the first round of the playoffs,
but Corbin Burns gave them a chance to win the
World Series. And so where's that move? That's why the
Nailor thing drives me up a wall, because you could
have had him. Who cares if it's one year. No,
that's a guy that knocked in like one hundred and

(01:03:38):
twenty runs and hit over thirty homers this past year.
So that to me is we're more aggressive financially than
the Orioles, and we are just as stacked pitching wise
as they are offensive wise. But they at least acknowledged
their flaw, made an aggressive move to give them a

(01:03:58):
chance to win the world last year. And where was
that from the MS? I want to see one of
those moves this offseason. Go get a hitter, even if
it costs you, and it's not gonna cost you your
entire farm system, but it might cost you one of
your favorite guys.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
One, okay, one, Yeah, you're gonna You're gonna draft more.
You have the third overall pick this next year.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Ah, you don't even have a place for every Ford
to play. No Harry Ford and a draft pick for
freaking you know? Uh, Ellie Dela Cruz.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Yeah, God, I love that. I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
I was trying to think of a veteran and nobody
really popped in my head. Yeah, but you know, uh,
you know, a top ten prospect for Kyle Schobert. Yeah,
he's on one year. But what does he do for
your offense? What does he insignificantly you don't have right now? Yes,
that's that's what That's what I'm talking about totally. So

(01:04:59):
that that's why I defend them, and I get crap
for that, a lot of crap for that. But I
do think that they have a great plan and a
great mindset and they're really good at building the infrastructure
of organization. Well, where are the finishing moves? That's where
they fall short, yep, all right, speaking of finishing moves. Yeah,

(01:05:21):
we got to dismount and nail the landing here, So
have a happy holiday. We'll gather together and do another
episode of stove Real soon here after the new year.
For anders Hurst. My name is Chuck Powell. Be safe
and we'll talk to you again down the line.