Juan Soto Deal, Winter Meetings, MLB Draft Lottery, Luis Castillo Trade Coming?

Anders Hirst and Chuck Powell give their reaction to the Juan Soto deal, go over some other big news from MLB winter meetings and discuss whether trading Luis Castillo would benefit the team.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Stove.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
What a kind of name is that.

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Well, it's the best name for a podcast ever. Welcome
into Stove. My name is Chuck Powell. Anders Hurst is
here as well, And we now come out of the
Winter Meetings with so much stuff to discuss.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah, and we mentioned last time last episode that the
stove wasn't really hot yet, it was kind of heating up.
It is hot now it is hot.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
It is hot.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
It is burning hot with moves, hot with rumors.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yes, and man, I guess when a guy signs for
seven hundred and sixty five million dollars, that gets people's attention.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, so we'll get right into it here. The one
Soto deal obviously, if you haven't heard one Soto signed
with the Mets, that's kind of our first piece of
news after it kind of happened right before the Winter meetings,
like you said.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Sunday night, Yeah, yeah, going into the Winter meeting.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
So you could kind of Scott Boris could kind of
prants around, like look at the deal that I just saw.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
I thought he would be there so that he could
get all of the Tata boys. But it certainly dominated
the Winter Meetings that conversation and unders standardly so so
I will say this for all the people that have
been saying for my entire sports casting career that baseball's dead.
Seven hundred and sixty five million dollars for one player

(01:14):
seems like it's got a heart beat. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
I think it's I think it's alive. I think it's well,
so what's uh, what's more surprising to you?

Speaker 1 (01:22):
The fifteen years or.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
The seven sixty five total?

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Um, I'll go with seven sixty five because I got
to remember back to when the process started, right. I
remember even telling Bucky on the air that it could
get to seven over seven hundred million early in the
free agency, like when the offseason started, and then I
went back the next day on the air and said,
I was probably exaggerating, it's not going to get to
that point. And then it ends up not only getting

(01:49):
to that point, way past the way past it. And
so I would say, you know, because we lived the
story and saw that it was gradually going past it,
it ended up not being as shock a number as
it was. If you would have told me way back
when that he's going to sign for seven hundred and
sixty five million dollars. My reaction with a year high Yeah,

(02:11):
but yeah, so fifteen years is kind of I was
kind of expecting that, which I think is outrageous frankly,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
What is that forty one is going to be in fifteen.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Years going through a human beings life. I mean, Jan
Soda is not exactly built like you know Fergie. He
he he might blimp up after his thirties. I don't know.
I mean he's his you know, swing as smooth as
Tennessee whiskey, and he certainly profiles with somebody that has longevity.

(02:44):
Ye man, fifteen years as a shocking number.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
A long time. It is a long time. I think
a lot of it is the age. Oh yeah, so,
like he's twenty six. This is kind of a little
unprecedented for this good of a player to hit free
agency this early.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
It was a perfect storm. Yeah, you know, it's the
Yankees and the Mets and the Dodgers and the Blue
Jays are apparently just missed out on Otani last year.
I mean, you've got the five biggest spenders all bidding
for you. He's twenty six years old. He's coming off
not only a great year, but a year in which
he sort of carried the team to the World series
in the playoffs, He's probably the surest thing in the sport.

(03:21):
I'd probably put him ahead of Judge because of Judge's
injury pass and even Otani. Yeah, you know, in terms younger, yeah,
younger player. I don't think he's He's not those two players.
I mean, I don't even think he's close. I think
Judge and Otani are clearly the two better players. But

(03:42):
in terms of like the surest thing, he's probably the
surest thing in the sport.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, I think so too. He doesn't go through slumps.
He you know, he's everyone loves him like he's a
good clubhouse guy, like all that, all that stuff. So, yeah,
he's gone to the Mets stand in New York. There
was a little interesting piece that came out in his
introductive press conference saying that he hadn't talked to any
of his Yankees teammates since the season ended. Is that
weird you, especially for someone who you know supposedly would

(04:06):
want him back.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
It is because it looked like he loved it. Yeah,
I think he really. Man, I've said this about Scott
Boris four years. Whoever signs on with Scott Boris, there's
nothing sentimental about it. I think Scott Borris make sure
that you're not sentimental about it. I think it's why
cal Rawley's not Scott Boris's client anymore, because Cal is saying, yeah,

(04:29):
I kind of like to stay with the Mariners, and
Scott's like, no, you're never going to stay with the Mariners.
As long as you're with me, They're not going to
give you the highest offer. And that's all I take.
But I think he found the perfect client. I think
Sodo was like, yeah, you know, he never showed any
sentimental draw at any point in his career, not to
the Nationals, certainly, not to the Padres. And even when

(04:51):
he was at the Yankees and he and Judge were
the greatest superhero tandem that we've seen, maybe in baseball
history since Ruth and Ga. There even then he would
be asked about what is going to mean if for
you to shign long term and play with Judge for
the rest of your life. I don't care about that. Yeah, yeah,

(05:12):
I'm going to the highest bidder and free agency. I mean,
they're a candidate. If they're the highest bidder, I'll come back,
but that's it.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, And then the one more piece of Episodo deal,
then we'll move on. Is that there was zero deferred money?
Are you surprised by that? But how big the contract is?

Speaker 1 (05:26):
We've talked about this a couple of times. I don't know.
I don't want to be surprised by it, but I
guess I think it should be outlawed immediately. You know,
back in the college football season when Dan Lanning pulled
that silly thing against Ohio State and college football got
together and you know how long college football takes to
make any determination eternity Before the next college football game

(05:49):
was played, they said, we're not allowing that. Yeah, that's
ever again, how baseball hasn't intervened here and not allowed
for the deferred payments? I mean again, I don't want
to go on another rant like I did the last
couple of episodes, but it's we've already been asked to
accept the discrepancy between those that have money and those

(06:10):
that don't, and I can defend it to a point,
but when you then start giving the those that have
money even extra advantages, I mean, Rob Manfred should have
stopped in stepped in the moment the O TWI deal
was e being discussed. If you want to give it
to Otani because you didn't dream in a million years

(06:32):
that somebody would defer that much money. But as soon
as it was over, we're never allowing this again, the
Otani rule, And yet it still exists, and it's partly
because Rob Manfred's a fool.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's one thing we can
both agree on. Yeah, Okay, moving on other pieces of
news during and after the Winter meetings. Just some big
pieces here. Garrett crocheted the Boston Red Sox.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Your thoughts, I thought, I think Crochet's great, yeah, now,
but his injury history is terrified significant, and so for that,
I think the White Sox for the first time in
a long time, actually got a pretty good package in return,
and there's no reason to hold on to him now.
So they should have moved him at the trading deadline,

(07:17):
and they should move Louis Robert as well, even though
they let his value diminish significantly. But I thought, I
thought it was a great move for the Red Sox,
and I thought that for a change, it was actually
a pretty good move by the White Sox.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Totally agree. Yeah, Crushchet is one of those guys. He
doesn't have a long history of starting he was a
kind of a reliever for a while, and then he
his first year of starting, he had a ton of success,
but then you know, obviously the injuries kind of kept
creeping up on him a little bit. He's one of
those where if it works out, it'll really work out.
I think if he stays healthy, he's one of the
best pitchers in baseball.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Statistically, he might have been when you take everything into account,
because remember they started jacking with him right in the
second half and they was only throwing like three innings. Yeah. Yeah,
and he obviously lost some momentum and his edge and
didn't pitch as well in the second half. But to
that point, like statistically, he was as good, if not

(08:11):
better than anybody.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
He was the first half the season. He was in
the Cy Young race, like sure.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
And so I really think that the Red Sox, who
I actually think a lot of people think of the
Red Sox as like, oh, offensive first team, They're pitching
has just been lacking for so long. They actually pretty
good pitching last year from a couple really Tanner Howick
was really good. Nick Pivetto was really good. But they
just needed kind of that top end guy. And I
think that if this works out for them, he could
totally be that from them. Plus he's pretty young. I

(08:37):
think he's only twenty four maybe twenty five years old.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Now, Yeah, a lot of myelods there, but incredibly talented player.
And I think the Red Sox are back, I think,
being a big player.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
I really think so too. Their arrival, The New York
Yankees have made a couple of deals in in light
of the Soto deal. Going to the New York Mets,
they signed Max Freed to eight years, two hundred and
eighteen million dollars. What do you think about this one?

Speaker 1 (09:01):
I think he's a really good picture, maybe even bordering
great picture starting pitcher. I mean, there's a chance here
that this is a blessing in disguise thanks of getting
Sodo back. Think about how much you can do with
seven hundred and sixty million dollars that you ended up
not having because they got himself sixty five. Yeah, they

(09:21):
offered seven to sixty. If you're willing to spend that
much money on your team going forward, imagine what you
can do with that if you're creative. And so I
heard them getting criticism in New York for the counter
move that was free. Well, there's nothing. Actually, I'm going
to tell you back, there is something. I think you
can do more on that in a moment. But to
counter with Max Freed and then to have I'm just

(09:44):
gonna say it right now, they have to get Tucker. Yeah,
they're the perfect team to get Tucker. I agree. And
the reason that there are people that have the cold
feet about it is because we don't want to sign
another trade all these prospects because they haven't kind of
emptied the vault, right, Yeah, and then he leaves after
a year. Well, you were willing to spend seven hundred

(10:05):
and sixty million dollars last week on a player, give
the guy five hundred million dollars. Tucker would take that,
I think, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and now and now you
two hundred mili you've can trade him for the have
you heard the Cubs rumor? It's Isak parades and a
minor league prospect from the Cubs to and the Astros
are considering that the Yankees can come up with something
better than that. Oh yeah, get Tucker, give him five

(10:28):
hundred million. Whatever you didn't so you got free. You
get Tucker for five hundred million dollars. So you got
him locked up, and now you've got a guy perfect
for your ballpark that can play right field and does
a lot of He actually does some things that Soto doesn't.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Correct He's not the hitter that Soto is, but he's
only a year older. He's twenty seven, so the age
thing isn't that big of a deal. He I would
say ninety percent maybe ninety five percent of the hitter
that Soto is.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
He's great.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
He's very, very like, very simil like. He has a
super high walk rate but also doesn't strike out, which
is crazy in today's game. Soto has that too. I
agree has the power left handed bat, plays better defense
than Sodo, So I think I still think Soto is
the better player, but I agree Kyle Tucker, you could
get probably for a better value because of just he

(11:19):
doesn't have the name value. But I think he's been
the Houston Astros like Wagon offensively for the past three years.
So he's someone I've secretly wanted on Seattle. It's probably
not realistic at this point because it would have had
to have been a trade probably during the season last
year or something other like that. But he's gonna he
has one more year in his contract before he hits

(11:40):
free agency, similar to Sodo when the Yankees traded for
him last year. Yeah, so I'm interested to see. I
think that'd be a perfect fit though for New York.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
If I'm Jerry, I'm like, well, I can come up
with something as good as Parades, serious and Cam Smith. Yeah,
and yet I don't think the Astros would move him
to the Mariners. Probably don't think.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
They in division sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, that's unfortunate and they and and also on top
of that, the Mariners are never going to pay the
money that it keep to keep him. Yeah, so there's
really there's no point to even play in this.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
I'm operating in a world where I want to happen
instead of what probably will happen. I love Kyle Tucker
as a player. He's one of my favorite players to watch,
and it sucks that he's been on the Astro. So
I hope I can he goes somewhere else I can
do for him the Yankees, for.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Him to go to Cubs, I don't want him to
go to the Yankees. It's perfect for the Yankees, but
I don't want the Yankees to make perfect can't.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
You just see Kyle Tucker in a pay stripped uniform.
Kyle Tucker.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Southern guys do well, Yeah, they do. I don't even
know if he always Tampa Tampa. He's Southern Tampa Flower. Yeah,
Kyle Mannel, that's true. Southern boys drive Oklahoma.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Make mantels from Oklahoma. Southern boys drive in the Big Apple.
They really do. There you go. Yeah, So I don't
want him to go to New York. I just if
I were in Brian Cashman's shoes, I'd pull that.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Trade totally, and I think that would soften the blow
of not getting Sodo big time.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
There was one more trade that the Yankees did make.
They traded away nest Cortez and a couple of prospects
to the Brewers for Devin Williams, who I think, for
my money, has probably been, I don't want to say
the best reliever in baseball, but he's up there. He
was out for the first half of last year, so
I think that kind of dimished his value a little
bit for injury stuff. But he came back and was

(13:30):
as good as we've ever seen him before, so it
seemed like that wasn't really slowing him down. What do
you think about the Yankees move in that sense.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Well, I mean, he's the author of what's been the
most unhittable pitch, yeah, in baseball the last three years.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Like a version of a screwball is.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
It's a change up that just moves in weird ways
and nobody can hit it. No, but he actually was
the reason the Brewers didn't advance. He was terrible in
the playoffs, That's right, and so I so they were
looking to move on from him. I don't know what
version the Yankees are going to get, but it does
apply to what I said earlier. You didn't get Soto,

(14:05):
make the most out of it. Now, you obviously were
willing to invest very heavily in this team around there,
and judge going forward, you've got to make a lot
of you have a lot of holes. Yeah, I mean,
I know you made it to the World Series last year,
but you have a lot of hole A lot.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Of that was because of the historic play of Won Soto.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
And because you're not giving seven hundred and sixty five
million dollars to one guy, you got a chance to
use that money to plug a lot of your holes.
You might be able to become a better team and
build it around Judge going forward, even though there's no
way that you're going to find a better player.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. Yeah, the Yankees bullpen
needs help, so I like this deal for them. The
Brewers are, in a weird way, remind me of the Mariners.
They're like the National League Mariners.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
They make the playoffs every.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Year, that's the one difference. But you know, but it
seems like they did the same thing with Devin Williams
as they did with Josh Hader, right right before they
get free agency. They trade them away, trying to reload
a little bit. They've always, like I've been listening to
national media kind of really clamor for them to get
that big offensive piece, but they never do that. They
kind of lean on their pitching. They're starting pitching. They

(15:10):
had Corbyn Burns, same kind of thing. They traded him
away as well. They kind of just seem to keep reloading,
keep reloading, keep reloading, never take that big step as
a franchise. And it kind of reminds me of the
Marriags a little bit.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
They're a very good organization. Yeah, and to stay competitive.
They weren't supposed to win the division this year, No,
they were not and they did. This was supposed to
be a little bit of a rebuilding year, and to
rebuild and win a division. Yeah, that's crazy. But they're
they're probably going to move on like a Corbyn burns

(15:40):
from everybody that they have a little prematurely, but certainly
for a reliever. Yeah, because if you're going to spend
money as a mid or small market team, it can
be on a reliever. True. So not surprised at all
that they're moving on from Devin Williams and they lost
Willia Damas. But I'll bet you dollars to donuts they'll

(16:01):
still be competitive and have a shot at winning the
division next year. Yep.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
So, I mean, do you see the kind of the
thought process though, with the kind of Mariners comparison, it
kind of seems like they operate in a very similar way.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah, I mean they're probably even more so. I mean,
the Mariners are a mid market club. They're like technically,
I mean, they're right in the middle. There's the sixteenth
largest market in Major League Baseball, so they are a
mid market club. I think Milwaukee sometimes operates as a
small market club more so so, I think they're even

(16:34):
even in a different category. But they're just really good
at it. Yeah, they're just they're frankly better at it
than the Mariners. And yet nobody sees the Brewers once
they do make the playoffs as they could win at all.
Nobody says that where everybody, not just me or you
or Bucky, yeah, but everybody, every national guys. Nobody wants

(16:57):
to face the Mariners in the playoffs. So I don't
I felt think the Brewers have that in their corner.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Well, one thing the Mariners do well that keeps kind
of that that ceiling raised and keeps kind of like
we dimensioned with the Brewers kind of reloading keeping relevancy
year after year, is they draft very very well. And
the MLB draft lottery happened over the weekend, was it
or is it like Tuesday Tuesday at the winter meetings.
That's right, okay, And the Mariners ended up with the

(17:25):
third overall pick, which was I think not supposed to happen.
We were kind of more projected in like the seven, eight,
nine range. No.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Seventeenth, seventeenth. Oh okay, wow, So this is a big story.
This is a big deal that I mean, they have
new rules now for the Major League Baseball draft lottery. Well,
they've never had it before till last year. Right last year,
the Yankee excuse me, the Guardians had a two percent
chance of getting the number one pick, and they got it. Yeah,
so everybody thought, well, statistically, that was a fluke, so

(17:53):
next year it'll probably be more normal. Shock. Yeah, it wasn't. Right. Like,
the Nationals ended up with a number one pick, they
had the fourth best chance. Ants Angels with this number
two pick, they had the third best chance. But the
Mariners benefited the most. They went from seventeenth all the
way up to number three. And look, this is significant

(18:13):
from this standpoint. I've all been asked a lot like,
what is the difference between the Orioles and the Mariners
rebuild process? Obviously one's a lot better at finding pitching
and one's a lot better at finding hitters. But the
truth is that the reason the Orioles was a little
more successful and a little more sexy is because of

(18:36):
how bad they got. Because the Mariners never got worse
than the sixth overall pick during a rebuild. The Houston
Astros have built their entire dynasty, if you will, off
of about a seven year stretch of being horrendous, and
the Orioles did the same thing. The Chicago Cubs did

(18:56):
the same thing when they built their champion. So the
Mariners didn't get bad enough, that's the truth in the
comparison with the Baltimore Orioles. So they never got the
number one overall pick, and then the following year the
number two overall pick, and you also get that top
pick every round. They're gonna get the third pick every
round of the draft coming up here. So for them

(19:20):
to be in a championship window by their own call
and to have ended up with the third overall pick
in the draft, that assures them of getting either the
best high school player, the best college hitter, or the
best college pitcher. They are assured of getting one of

(19:40):
those three things because of their luck in the lottery draft,
which is you know they're gonna get. It's not a
sure thing Baseball's Baseball's Draft is the least of the
sure things out there, but it's gonna give them a
crack at something that they wouldn't not have had them,

(20:00):
that they would ever dreamt of that teams this good
don't get the chance to have. The Guardians are gonna
get to benefit from it so much so that the
Guardians traded away Andre Simenez in the winter meeting because
they believe in the number one overall pick Bazana from
Oregon State, who they took number one last year, and
he's probably going to be their starting second baseman this year.

(20:21):
So it's it's a big deal, it really is. And
nothing but luck like they didn't do anything to earn it.
As a matter of fact, f them for even being
in the lottery, but that is a significant, uh story
at the winter meetings this year.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, it's funny because, uh, you know, we chatted about
this before and uh, it'll probably come down to where
they get some really good player and they've drafted really,
really well in the past couple of years, right.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah, and since the rebuild, they've been very good.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
And it's been a pretty high hit rate in terms
of comparing the rest of MLB. You just know that
Jerry's going to frame it in this way like, oh,
you know, we did you guys a favor of I
miss the playoffs in twenty twenty four. You know, we
got the third overall pick because of that. But yeah, no, it's.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Young people who are cynics.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, oh boy, Yeah, I know it's I'm excited that
we got that lucky, but I'm also frustrated that we
were even in that position. Kind of the same time.
The way you worded that before, it's funny you brought
up the Orioles because there was a story that came out.
I didn't mention this to you before from I think
it was someone from the athletic that covers the team.

(21:29):
It was. It came out that the GM of the Orioles,
Mike Elias or Elias, refuses to spend money despite giving
the green light from their owner, and like there was
a kind of an editorial written about it, and there's
a couple quotes in here that hit home a little bit.
Alias doesn't want ownership to spend large amounts of money

(21:52):
on free agents because it would make Elias more accountable
and place higher expectations on him, per the source. And
then another quote that vision for the Orioles, which the
source described as a vanity project for Elias, is to
build a team that serves as the antithesis to teams
like the New York Yankees and Los Angeles Dodgers and

(22:15):
prove that an organization can be built from the ground up.
Rather than purchased through free agency. Are there similarities between
these two quotes and what you feel is being operated
for the local baseball team here in Sea?

Speaker 1 (22:29):
And I think Jerry Depoto has actually admitted that that's
the old where a draft develop and trade organization. And look,
I might be one of the few people that feels
this way. I think you can win a championship in
a small market. I think you can win a championship
in the sport in a medium market. I think that

(22:49):
you can win in a big market consistently. Well, we
know that you can in a big market, but I
think you can win consistently. I don't think that you
have to. If you do this the right way it
used to be with the A's, they would rebuild, take
four years, contend for a long stretch, rebuild, take four years,
contend for a long stretch. If you do it, I

(23:12):
think what teams are trying to do, like the Orioles
and the Mariners, is to never have to rebuild again. Okay,
and so contend every year, but you got it. But
if you do it through free agency, I think only
big market clubs can do that. So I think there's
some merit to it. But here's the difference, which we've

(23:32):
discussed before. Once you get there and you have holes. Look,
if this team's win in one hundred and fifteen games
this way, great, keep going. Yeah, and when you are
missing the playoffs, much less the World Series and you
have obvious holes, you you know, and you're not using
free agency. To me, it's the finishing move. Yes, there

(23:57):
are professional wrestlers out there, and they all have their
repertoire of things that they do, and they'll dazzle and
they'll strut to this stage and they've got all the
classic wrestling moves. But then they every single professional wrestler
has that finishing move. Where's the finishing move? They've got
to get over the bridge, as Justin Hollander put it
earlier this week, and same thing with Baltimore. But Baltimore

(24:20):
went for Corbyn Burns last year and they've signed O'Neill
and I don't know why they signed him as a
bad sign.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
But it's a sign of them trying.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, it's a sign of trying to get over the
top because they're not advancing in the playoffs even though
they've gotten their two years in a row. Yeah, where's
that move from the Marin Well.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
And that's you mentioned the difference between the Mariner's rebuild
and the Ools rebuild, and I think you put it correctly,
And the biggest difference is that they didn't mayors didn't
get bad enough. But the other main difference to me
is that once they got to the point where they
felt like they were in a window, the Orioles changed
their mindset. Okay, now we can be more aggressive. We
can bring in a one year deal for core been Burns,

(25:00):
we can sign a free agent. And the Mariners haven't
switched to that mode yet. It seems like even though
it seems like we're in this championship window. And then
the other thing is when you mentioned about teams that
feel like they just never want to be able to
rebuild again, I can see that. I just think, are
there times where you are sacrificing a true a time

(25:21):
where you can capitalize on a group of players that's
on your team to go possibly win a World Series
And it's not a sure thing. Obviously we've seen the
Baseball playoffs, But are you sacrificing that opportunity just so
you don't have to rebuild again? And it seems like
there's some in some cases and currently with the Mariners,
that's one of those.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
I want a sustainable product. I agree with that. Where
I do disagree with them is, you know, if you're
this should be a situation where I understand what our
budget is, but I've got a player that I think
puts us over the top, and I'll put my job
on the line. Yeah for saying that this. You can't
predict a world champion. The postseason is too weird in baseball.

(26:03):
It's probably even though I love playoff baseball, I mean
it's there's too many people invited to the party. It's
just a sport where upsets can occur in short series.
So you're not you're never truly crowning the best team
in baseball.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
That it would be like soccer would be the best
team after the regular season.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Seriously, it's the team that gets hot at the right time.
That's what baseball is. So my goal, and I think
this is Jared, this is what he was trying to
say in fifty four percent, is that we want to
remain a champion or a playoff contender every single year.
If we do that, we'll get in more often than not.

(26:43):
And if we're in we've got a shot. If we're infrequently,
then we're going to win a World Championship. We're going
to make it to a couple of World series. That's
what he was trying to say, and that butchered fifty
four percent delivery of his that's what he's and I
agree with that, and that's what I think small and
medium market teams should strive for. But there's also comes

(27:06):
a time where you if you don't have any holes,
don't worry about it, right, But when you have obvious holes,
I'll give them credit. We should all give them credit.
At the trading deadline, they weren't even in playoff position,
and they made a couple of aggressive moves that added
to payroll and they almost got there. Yeah, but I
but getting the guy that gives you a little bit

(27:29):
of a margin for error, as we discussed last week. Yes,
I don't want to just try to build an eighty
eight win team. You know, it's time for some finishing
moves around here.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
I agree. And the one phrase that you mentioned, put
your job on the line. I wonder if there's a
unwillingness or a hesitancy to do that, And that's what
this quote from the oriols gm OR. The story says
Elias doesn't want ownership to spend large amounts of money
on free agents because it would make Elias more accountable
and place higher expectations on him and the team, according

(28:01):
to the source, So I think there is a lot
of truth to that. The question is is there a
way where you can both create a sustainable product and
continue to make the playoffs every year but also capitalize
when you have one of those teams?

Speaker 1 (28:13):
And not only is there a way, it just has
to be done. Yeah, of course there's a way to
do it. And so I think that there are unreal
expectations by a lot of people in the fan base
and the Seattle sports media that we should be a
three hundred million dollars payroll because there are a lot
of rich people that live in Seattle. Okay, you've told

(28:34):
me the rules. Now I'm going to tell you how
to win within those rules. Now, That's what I've tried
to do ever since I got into town. You've given
me what my restrictions are, what I'm allowed to spend
and how I'm allowed to spend it. But there does
come a time where you have to push the envelope
a little bit. You may have to give up a

(28:54):
prospect that you've fallen in love with in order to
get that piece that you're missing that assures you of
getting into the playoffs and having that shot of winning
the World Series, because if you get in, you have
a shot. Yep. The Diamondbacks almost did it two years ago,
and they at the trading deadline were a bad team.

(29:14):
They were a five hundred team at the trading deadline
that year. Yep.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
I agree with you. I hope that ends up kind
of being the Cases year. We're still kind of waiting
for some moves. But there are a lot of rumors
flying around Stove hot stove about the Mariners and one
specific player that they are rumored to be made available
rumored to have made available is Louis Castill. You kind
of projected this in your crystal ball earlier in the year,

(29:41):
but the return, like the supposed return, isn't as heavy
as I think a lot would hope. What are your
thoughts on the Mariners making Louis Castillo available? Who would
you how much of a return would it take for
you to be okay with trading him? And then what
other stuff has to happen? For this team to act
actually capitalize on trading one of your best pitchers.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
All right, Well, first of all, I don't want to
get rid of him. I like him. I love him, Yeah,
I love watching him pitch, and and and I think
he fits with the team and the clubhouse and uh,
he's just he's just a lot of fun to watch pitch.
And he's very good. Maybe i'd stop short of calling
him great because of there's some inconsistency to him. Sometimes

(30:26):
when he gets there's a little bit of rain, instead
of getting damp, he gets wet. You know, there's some
there's some of that to it. But I want him
on the team. However, again, just like I said in
the previous comments, what are what are the parameters here?
Tell me what they are, and then I'll see if
I can win with them. And the parameters are apparently

(30:49):
you can only spend so much, Well, then you're gonna
have to trade for it. We're gonna have to trade
for that offense that I feel this organization so desperately needs.
And so if I've got five good to great pitchers,
I got to trade the one that makes money. I
got to trade the twenty four million dollar a year

(31:11):
guy and try to get twenty four million dollars worth
of offense in return. Now, if I can add that
to the sixteen to twenty million that they freed up
that apparently they're allowed to spend, Now I got forty
to forty five million that I can spend on players
that I either get through free agency or through trades.
So this is why I put him in the crystal ball.

(31:31):
It's not that I don't like him. I love him,
But it only makes sense to me unless they suddenly
have an epiphty tomorrow and ownership wants to go out
there and you know, sign Corbin Burns and Anthony Santander.
You know, but if this is the way you're going
to operate, then it only makes sense to me that

(31:52):
you trade the guy that makes the money to free
the money. Now, if you only had one other good pitcher,
I wouldn't do it. But you have four other good pitchers,
and those four with Emerson Hancock still gives you arguably
the best rotation in the American League. So I kind
of thought, well not only kind of, I thought this

(32:13):
day was coming. No matter what Jerry said about we're
not trading any of our starters and once he got
to the winter meetings and realize there aren't many teams
rebuilding right now. They're all trying to get better, they're
all trying to make the playoffs. So trading prospects for
star players, there's not a lot of that available out there.

(32:34):
So once he realized that, I think it was back
to the drawing board, and he came to the conclusion
that I came as the offseason came to a close,
and that is you're going to have to move this
guy in order to get some offense.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Full disclosure. I think Lewis Castillou maybe my favorite Mariner
on the team, wow on the team. I love watching
him pitch. He's an awesome dude. I'm around the clubhouse
a lot. He is one of the coolest guys to
be nice to everyone, says hi to everyone. I love
his style of play. It's so fun to watch. His
hair's awesome. I love his arm angle like the weird

(33:11):
thing like I've always When you first came here, he
threw a sinker a lot right, and I think that
was one of his nastiest pitches, sinker and changeup, and
they made him go more fastball slider, and I think
he's better with the sinker change up kind of style
of delivery. Anyways, that's kind of a small thing, but
I still think it may not seem like it because
he didn't have the best year last year. I still

(33:31):
think at this moment in time, he is your best
starting pitcher. I think if you had a game, a
game one of a playoff series right now, Luis Castillo
would still be your starting pitcher. I think you trust
him most in the big moments. He comes through in
the big moments. I just I think mentality is it's
in that's important to have, and he kind of meshes
really well with all the different styles of the starting pitchers.

(33:53):
You got the the Bryce Miller Texan who just throws
fastballs directly at your face, and then you have the
George Kirby, I'm not going to throw you a ball,
You're gonna try and hit my strikes all the time
and doesn't want to talk to anyone. Then you got
Logan Gilbert with his bouncy hair flying around everywhere, who
keeps reinventing himself every single year and it's awesome. And
then you've got Brian Won that's just kind of just

(34:16):
coming into himself a little bit, and I think he's
probably the most talented out of all of your pictures
that you have right now. But I still think the
best picture, most well rounded, that you trust the most
in a big moment is Luis Castillo right now. I
see what you're saying about.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
I don't disagree with that, but I also think you
have at least two guys that are perfectly ready to
step up and be a team's best pictures.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
I agree, yeah, But the thing that makes me hesitate
a lot is a ton would have to happen for
this to make your team better a ton and I
don't think that would happen. Number one, you'd have to
nail the return. You'd have to get everything and more
coming back, and I just I don't know if that's

(35:03):
gonna happen. Number two, you'd have to spend what you
save immediately and correctly slash smartly however you want to
see that, and I don't think that they've had a
very good track record of doing that either. And numbers
they don't move any of the things that are working exactly.
And number three, I think you'd have to sign Rookiessky,

(35:24):
and I don't think that's gonna happen, So I don't
think you.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Have to Again, I think Emerson Ancock, I mean, he's
you're clear number five, but he should be in a
starting rotation somewhere in Major League Baseball. I still think
you have the best rotation in the American League if
Emerson Hancock's in and Luis Castillo is out. But I mean,
it doesn't matter what you do, though, anders even if

(35:47):
you kept him, yeah, and then tried to use sixteen
to twenty million dollars, Now you really have to nail
it because you have holes. You need a first basement,
a third basement, and a second basement, and you're going
to try to find that with sixteen million dollars, and
then you have to nail it. Buying, It's like it's
like going to the Dollar General and trying to buy

(36:08):
stuff that your wife's gonna love for Christmas. If you
do it that way, then it's far riskier that you
can't nail those picks. There's no way to know that
you're going to nail them. Yeah, but at least with
twenty four extra million dollars, I got a lot better
chance of nailing it.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
I still think it's riskier getting rid of one of
your best players, because that puts you even more in
the hole, so then you have to make up even
more gradual.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
So, yes, what was your solution then?

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Solution to what I mean?

Speaker 1 (36:38):
I think because the team obviously has to fill holes
and you know, and they're not gonna spend as much
as what you want, So then how are you going
to fill first, second, and third with apparently sixteen million dollars?

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Well, I mean you either a trade prospects right again,
might not be a market for it.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
I mean, who's rebuilding out there?

Speaker 2 (37:00):
There's there's a few teams that are few. Give me
one the White Sox. They just made a trade.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
They have one guy left. Yeah, and you don't want
Louis Robert and Randy or Rosireene on the same teamm.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Think who else? I mean Cardinals, Like they're getting rid
of Nolan Aernado. I'm not saying you sign out Nolan.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
They're not rebuilding, though they're restructuring. They think they can
they can be better without or Aeronado and gold Schmidt.
I mean seriously, normally there's like five or six teams. Yeah,
there's really nobody rebuilding out there. Nationals, Marlins, Nationals are
trying to move forward. Marlins may be rebuilding, but what
do they have left? Pirates, Reds. Pirates are definitely not

(37:43):
reb Rockies. Reds are definitely not rebuilding. Rockies don't have
anything you want.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
I mean, I seriously, I kind of. I mean, I
think the Pirates not rebuilding. But you could offer to
take someone off their hands. I don't know who it
would be, but the Reds. I don't see them contending
anytime soon.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Pirates just had their general manager and their manager interviewed.
They are trying to add they are trying to win
this year. Behind Paul Skeins and Jared Jones, they are
trying to win. That's what happened at the winter meetings.
Jerry and Justin went in there wanting to dangle prospects,
and people like, we're not interested in prospects, We're trying
to win. Something happened here in the last five to

(38:28):
ten years, this whole restructuring of baseball. These mid market
clubs figured out how to the best way to contend,
and they all did it at the exact same time,
right around twenty twenty, and so now they're all getting
healthy and they're all convincing themselves that they're contenders. There

(38:50):
aren't any sellers, and if there are sellers, they've already
sold everything. Yeah, so it's, you know, talk about trying
to threat an needle, like who are you gonna get
from those teams? Well, Colorado Rockey's aren't trading Ryan McMahon.
They've already announced it. And I don't think people around
here want Ryan McMahon anyway. I floated his name a
thousand times, and every time I get nasty emails about it, I.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Won't all right mcmn. I'd love Ryan mcmon.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yeah, I just I don't know. I don't know what
the solution is. But trading away one of if not
your best picture, I think leaves you even more room
to actually make this team better for twenty and we've
seen this the last two years. By the way, the
Mariners in twenty twenty two had a worst record in
twenty twenty three, and then had a worst record in

(39:34):
twenty twenty four because they kept trying to make the
incremental move by trading away and like reshuffling and all
that stuff. Like I'm not saying you just run it back,
but I'd rather do that than try and like a
full on roster shift. If you're gonna do that, you know,
there's got to be a market for Emerson Hancock. We
mentioned Hancock for Alec Bohm one to one. There you go,

(39:56):
that's that's one of the positions right there. Yeah, I
don't know if Phil he sells Phillies would do it,
then there's other options for that as well, because he's
a he's an MLB ready pitcher right now, Then you
spend the sixteen million on first base, and then you
have you have second basement there. I'm fine with throwing
Bliss and Dylan Moore if you have truly upgraded third

(40:17):
and first base.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
That's like just a off the top of my head
solution that I think would make this team better.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Like, well you did that then, okay, So who's the
guy that signs for fifty Well, you're not going to
spend it all on one guy. You got sixty million
to spend, so twelve million dollars on a free agent.
That's the most that you can spend apparently, Okay, Oh me, yeah, no, no,
I'm just saying it's like one of the Kims. Yeah,
so that guy fills the spot for you.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Then you go get like a Carlos Santana and I'm
not thrilled by that.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Right well, right, but that's twelve million, yeah right there?
Or ten that's ten yeah, so that's your big free
agent move right there. No, I'm with you. I mean
there's you could do a handcock for you know, to Baltimore. Yeah,
for you know, I don't think they do it for.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Mountcastle, Mount Castle. Yeah, I'd be in.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Fancock for Mountcastle. Put Mount Castle at first base. Uh,
and then you got a free agent signing of Kim,
one of the Kims at second.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
And then you get kill you gotta figure out third.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
I would like to get Roki Sasaki move Castillo, yeah,
because now I got forty million doll.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
That's what I'm saying. If if all those three things happen,
I'm okay with this, right. If if you nail the return, uh,
if you spend the savings, well, and if you sign Rokisaki,
I'm good with trading.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah I would, I would hope. So yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah, So okay, the one name that's being floated out
there is one for one Castillo for Tristan Cassas. Good
enough for you, I.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Would do it. Really, I would do it because not
only have I plugged first base for now and in
the future, and I think he's good, I have my doubts.
Twenty five years old. I mean, he had eight sixty
five ops in his only full year.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
There's a lot of rumors that he's a Fenway hitter
and not much else.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Oh he's a monster. I saw him flick three home
runs out in one game that I was just randomly watching.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Twenty four by the way, twenty four years old.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, well he's he'll be his twenty five.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Years when he starts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
And so to get him on the cheap, and then
I get to save twenty million, and now I've got
forty to spend potentially either on free agents or other
trade possibilities, maybe a Nico Horner at second base and
things of that. Agree. I wouldn't even rule out the
Christian Walker because that's the big rumor out there. I

(42:46):
wouldn't mind having both of them. You know, Walker is
going to be my first basement Cossas DH. I give
Walker day off every now and then so that Cossas
doesn't forget how to play first base, the other one
DH's and then I at thirty four years old. I
keep Walker fresher because I give him an occasional day off.

(43:06):
I don't mind having both of them. That's a good
problem to have. If that's what you've done by getting
rid of Castillo, you can add Cossus and then Walker
as a free agent, which Peter Gammons is reporting that's
the guy the Mariners want. Yeah, but he's a little
over budget. So if you clear the Castillo money, then
you get you got Walker and Cossus. That's immediately your

(43:29):
three and four whole hitter right there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
I just Walker for Castillo, and I guess if you
had cost Us into that, I just have doubts for
both those players. I don't know. Cossas has had one
season of over five hundred at bats, so.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
He's twenty four. He just got called up and then
he had injuries this year.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah, there's a lot of speculation that he's a Fenway
only hitter from a lot of people around Lee. I'm
not saying that's true. It's just that's kind of the
narrative around him. And then Christian Walker thirty four man,
I I wonder how long that.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
He wanted Jock Peterson last week and he's thirty.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
But Jock Peterson, you could sign for what twelve million?
Oh so yeah, for that value, and like.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Well, I'll just say this, he's thirty four, but he
plays a position that age as well.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
It does first play defense.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
He plays the best defense by a mile over any
other first basement in the sport. And he's a warrior,
like he is a workout warrior. So it's he's not
your bubbly, chubby thirty four year old. He is a
I'll get in the gym and work a thirty four
year old. So thirty four, thirty five, thirty six, three

(44:47):
year deal, seventy five million dollars you know, eight hundred
oh ps? Guy three thirty is it on base? Doesn't
hit for a high average?

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Great clubhouse eight pretty high two fifty one last year?

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, great clubhouse guy, work, workaholic knowledge of hitting, will
share that knowledge.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
I mean has carried the Diamondbacks at times the last
couple of years and getting them to the playoffs and
what nearly getting them to the playoffs last year. I mean,
I if it's not if you don't like him, yeah,
I do. Wonder who you even want to spend I mean,
not talking about you are talking about general, who do

(45:29):
you want to spend? If I've heard this for years, spend, spend, spend,
and then names get brought up, well, not on him?

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, yeah, I ain't know.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Who do you spend on? I mean, Soto's obvious, but
it's also just as obvious that they were never going
to get him.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Well, and that's I think that a lot of the
frustration with Mariners fans is that because we can't get
those top end free agents, which, by the way, the
names that you would actually want on your baseball team
for the casual baseball fan are there's not a lot.
There's very very little, very few, especially in this free
agent class, which is I think why people wanted the

(46:03):
marriage to spend in the twenty twenty one and twenty
twenty two free agent classes, because there's a lot more
moving on, and then you end up kind of okay,
well we'll do Christian Walker and then we'll do you know,
the Mitch Garvers and that.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Like, well, Mitch Garver's a huge drop off from Walker.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Yeah, but we didn't know that when we signed him.
We didn't think that, I mean, no, two.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Years twenty four we were okay with that. Yeah, but
that's not all Star. He's says, not all Star player
three years in a row. Yeah, you know this is
a This would be a definite upgrade. Great defender, great
clubhouse guy. I mean, he's bringing pretty much everything. The

(46:46):
only thing that you have to worry about is does
he go from a thirty five home run hitter to
a twenty five home run hitter here? But to have
a twenty five home run hitter in the middle of
your lineup is something we you know, we could use.
Yea even if it's just twenty five homers and Cossas
I think hits twenty five in his sleep. Ye if

(47:06):
he's healthy, If he's healthy. But if that's just it,
like if you're just gonna yell to spend, not you again,
but if you're just gonna, as a Mariner fan, yell
to spend, and then you're only going to like somebody
that you've heard of, Yeah, yeah, then I don't know
what to tell you. I guess that's what Stove podcast
is here for. But I mean the next guys on

(47:29):
the list are Bregman, Santander Alonso, and tay Oscar. Those
are the next four big hitters on the free agent market.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
I think three of those four would be better than
Christian Walker.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Also costs more, right, right, But fine, if.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
You're gonnake one of them, if you're gonna trade Castillo,
that's all I'm saying. Sure, pick one of them. Uh,
I probably go. Yeah, I know it's not a position
of need. But he could DH as well. DH. He's
switch hitter. Had a really good year for the Orioles
last year.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Stand up in applaud at Anthony Santandeero.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
I would sign I would too.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yeah, I would stand up in a plaud on Alonzo
signing Pete Alonzo sign I would rather would up an
applaud at Alex Bregman sign I'd rather.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Have Christian Walker than pe Alonzo. Though personally, okay, I'm
not that high on Alonzo, but but you know what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
The exercise is, that's those if you're looking for an
impact hitter and you're yelling at people to this, spend money, mariners,
your cheap bastards, spend, spend, spend, and then they come
away with Reregman, Santandero, Alonso Taoscar or Christian Walker. You
better be happy about it, because those are the five

(48:46):
best guys on the market. Right now that you can
plug into the middle of your order and make an
immediate impact on this baseball.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
And quite frankly, I don't think they would be. I
don't think most fans, Marion's fans would be, especially if
you traded away Luis Castillo. Right, So we get that.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Then basically what you're saying is sign Juan Soto or
you suck not you. Yeah. Yeah, Mariner fans, if that's
where you're going to operate, then again, go sit at
the kids table. We're gonna have an adult conversation about baseball. Yeah,
one team was getting Juan Soto and it was the
team that spent the most money. So who do you want?

(49:22):
And if that list of people don't impress you enough
to have Adam to the roster, then why don't you
just let Jerry and Justin and John be as cheap
as they want and try to figure out a way
to maneuver chess pieces, keep John happy, and then try
and find cheap articles to plug into the three monster

(49:43):
holes that they have in the lineup, and we'll see
if the pitching can take us to the playoffs like
it nearly did the last two years.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, I just I mean it's a tough scenario to
be in. And this is why being in the position
that we are in terms of the financial profile of
this baseball team is tough on fans because we we just.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Wait a minute, and but I've just I'm learning here
that if it's not Sodo, we're not gonna be happy.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
I mean for this year. I mean, you could argue
I think Bragman would float some boats. A lot of
people wouldn't like it because he's a former astro, but
I think most people understand that he's really good. Besides those,
I mean, if you had signed Snell and then traded
away like one of your pitchers, I think that would
have been floated some boats. Same kind of thing with
Max Freid. I think.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
I guess that you're trading Castillo.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah, but that's that's my point. It's like, you can't
just I think asking Emerson Hancock to come in and
fill in that role is going to be a bigger
drop off then.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Right, It's going to be a drop off. Yeah, But
then if you take that money and you sign and
you trade for Alec Bohm and Kyle Schwarber.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
That's fine. I'm good with that. I'm totally good with that.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
And by the way, that's twenty eight million dollars right,
and we still I'm great with that. We still have
fifteen more million to spend.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
If that's what you do, I am definitely good with that.
But the couple of names like Christian Walker is fine.
I don't love Tristan Cassas Like that doesn't bring you
back to if you had just kept Castillo.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
For me, well, the reason that Cossas is valuable is
because you're filling a hole for cheap and it frees
you to spend more money on something else. Yeah, that's
why the Casas thing. So it just depends on it
makes sense to me, I would say just from a
baseball value. And again we're not trading players for players
in baseball value. It's your contract for player contract. So

(51:42):
even though Castillo is a better player than Cassis and
a sure wer thing, I'm saving twenty million plus dollars
a year, and I've plugged a hole at first base
that is a bigger hole right now than Emerson Hancock
sliding into my number five live spot in the rotation
behind four studs. So you think, and then I also

(52:05):
have money to spend now to spend on third base
and on second base. Okay, now I've got something cooking.
So it does fill a big hole for you and
creates more leverage to make other moves.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
So theoretically, let's say, do you think there's a bigger
gap between Tristan Cossas and Carlos Santana than Louis Castio
to Emerson Hancock.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
I think Cossas not only is better, Yeah, he's younger,
so you have him for a longer period of time,
and he's going to be much cheaper. So yeah, that's
that to me, is a.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Solution, and I'm thinking just for twenty twenty five though.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Like I think Cossas is ready to be a stud.
First basement.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Okay, so there's a bigger gap between him and what
Carlos Santana would bring in twenty twenty five than to
what Luis Castillo to Emerson Hancock.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Uh no, oh, but I've also again contract for contract, right,
I'm also saving a lot of money doing this, and
I have more to spend now, Okay, yeah, I mean
so that allows me to get other guys too. We
aren't going to just solve this with one first basement,
whether it's Santana, I mean, our issue is not pitching.

(53:20):
Our issue is hitting.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yeah, so I'm I so, let's get rid of it.
The one thing that we're good at cost so that
we can fix that. So but we're not, We're still
good at it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
So I have four great pitchers. Who else has four
great pitchers in their starting rotation?

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Phillies Yankees now.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
And they're a playoff team and a championship contender. Yeah right, Yeah, Okay,
you can win. But they don't have to trade away
that to get good hitters. Okay, Anders, but that's that's
the team you root for. That's what they do.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
So what I mean, are we going to have a
podcast wishing for Juan Soto and if we don't get them,
we're furious at the world. No.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
I just think if you're not going to get him,
I wouldn't trade away something that is very good to
hopefully marginally improve your offense. It's unfortunate. And this is
a quote from Ryan Divish after he quoted the Luis
Castillo No, I agree with it.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
I agree. I agree that it stinks that you have
to trade from a strength. But so if the answer
is we keep Castillo and we can add one of
the five guys on my list here, that's my preference. Okay,
they're not going to do that. Okay, So in order
to get creative, how are we going to get better offensively?

(54:40):
And the only way you can get better offensively take
away a little bit from your strength in order to
shore up your weaknesses, because you're still strong enough in
starting pitching. But there's no way you're winning winning, you're
making it into the playoffs with the offense as it's
currently constructed.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, I mean, so you just have.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
To give a little bit. And it's not Castillo. Cassis
makes you better than Castillo. It's Cassus allows you to
add more pieces that will get you offensively to the
point where you are playoff caliber offensively and you are
playoff caliber pitching wise. I just I and defense.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
I agree with you theoretically that that's that bringing having
that availability money wise to do that. They haven't proven
that they can do that though. The last few additions
for the last couple of years offensively haven't worked.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
So how is it?

Speaker 2 (55:36):
How is this year going to be any different? How
do we know it's going to be any different?

Speaker 1 (55:39):
I don't think anybody does know it's going to be
any different. But you've got to play the game. You
got to figure out, you've got to do something. Yeah, Well,
I'm not hearing many solutions out of you.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I don't have I'm not saying I'm this all knowing,
like this is what they should do. I should be
the general manager. I'm just telling you what I think.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, I'm not hearing any solutions. So, I mean, we
can just sit here and complain about something, or we
can try to solve it.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
I mean, I'm just I'm not going to be the
guy that like I have the answer to everything, right,
That's not who I am. I'm not gonna they should
be doing this instead.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
No, I just think, Oh, you're just a complainer, guy, Anders,
You're just complaining. That's all you're doing.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
I am telling you what a lot of people think, and.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
It's I know, and they're complainers.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
What's wrong with complaining. It's what you do with your
favorite baseball team when they don't when they frustrate you,
and they have for three years.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Okay, Well that's not the way I operate. So we
should be able to have a nice little yeah podcast.
I just I operate by trying to solve the problem
and I think that there are solutions out there, and unfortunately,
it is an organization that's not just going to keep
spending until they get it right. They are an organization

(56:50):
that forces its front office to get creative and make
lateral moves to try to create the better puzzle at
the end of the pros says. And so that's the
team that we cover, that's the team we do a
podcast for. I mean, it's very easy to just say
Mariners will be a lot better if they signed Bregman,

(57:10):
Santander and Pete Alonzo. But that's not who we follow.
That's not who we cover. We're you know, we're not
the Mets. Yeah, So if these are the restrictions in
my estimation, this is just my estimation. Luis Castillo is
the logical move to get you the money that you

(57:31):
need to improve the offense enough that it compensates for
the pitching that you have to give up in order
to get it right. So, to me, that's the solution here.
I don't like it. I mean, my first choice would
be just to add two bats, regardless the cost. Right,

(57:53):
Let's get Sodo and Tucker. If we're going to live
in fantasy world.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Well, yeah, I mean, I never expected them to get
one Sodo, But in order to just get one of
those medium level free agency you still have to trade
away probably my favorite Marin on the team, And a
lot of that is what my frustration comes from. Is
it's a lot of sentimental value because I love Luis
Castillo and I don't want to see him in another uniform. Yeah,
but if that's what ends up happening, I will be disappointed.

(58:17):
That's all I'm gonna say.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, regardless of who they get.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
I don't see, at least from what I'm hearing around
the rumors, something that would excite me more than how
disappointed I would be a lose Castio. But I again,
I'm open to be proven wrong. Yeah, but I just
I think.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Well, I mean, look, the other solution is, and I
brought this up before, keep your start, I mean, this
is what they seem to be leaning towards. Yeah, keep
your starting rotation and tact and nickel and dime your
way to an offense that hopefully is good enough. Yeah
that it's not terrible like it was this year. It
shouldn't have been terrible this year, right, I mean that
theory should have worked, right this past year. I'm just

(59:02):
trying to create offensively a little margin for error and
what we I mean, we can't miss the playoffs again,
Yeah and so so. But if that's the case, if
that's the way that people feel, then I think they
just need to get on board with the way Jerry
and Justin have been doing it and then trust that

(59:23):
it's going to work this time, even though it hasn't
the last two years.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
And what you brought up in our season wrap up
is maybe it would if they had left the offensive
philosophy to someone else, maybe it would have.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
All right, so I will present that to you. I mean,
your pitching should be so phenomenal like it was this
past year, with a chance to be even better. Wu
and Miller are young.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Yeah, they're gonna get better.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
They should. Then you can Nickel and Diamond again. I
mean you do. They are saying they've got sixteen to
twenty million dollars to spend here, So you could bring
back a Justin turn at eight, put him with Rayley
at first base, have that combination, so there's eight million
dollars for you. Then you can go out and get

(01:00:09):
a high song. Kim probably going to be eight to ten,
so now you're at eighteen million, and now maybe you trade,
like you said, an Emerson Hancock. I don't think you're
gonna get Alec Boem for him straight up, but maybe
you know, I'm trying to think that's, off the top
of my head, like a decent veteran third baseman that

(01:00:31):
you can get to plug in over there. Yeah, Aeron Otto,
if they would eat half the money, maybe give him
Emerson Hancock, if they'd eat half the money, well you
need them for like three million dollars. But there, I mean, guess,
I guess there is a way to juxtapose this thing
and get it where he needs to be. But I'm
just saying you're in the exact same boat that frustrated

(01:00:53):
you the last two years.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Well, maybe maybe there's a and I would hate to
do this as well, but maybe there's a you trade
a George Kirby for like a cheap young third baseman.
I don't know who else would be available besides an
Alec Bohm.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
But well, if you're going to trade the Kirby or
the Gilbert, or the Millers or the Woos, now you're
knocking on the Orioles door right exactly, and you're saying Weberg, Kowser,
Westburg one of those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
And then you keep Castillo, and then you still have
the money that you would have spent, but you only
have two positions to do it on.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
But you've given up a great picture. Yeah you have.
It's no different than what I'm proposing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
I know, I said I prefer not to.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Yeah, I'm just bringing up that Castillo's the older one,
probably the greatest injury risk in the rotation.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
He's made like thirty starts last year.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Yeah, I know, but just getting older, getting older, I
mean he has Tommy John insurance. So the older guy
that gives you more money to spend seems to me
like the thing that works best for the Mariners over
giving up a Gilbert and a Kirby.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
I generally would agree. And again, a lot of it's
my sentimental value to the beast, cust to you. But
I think you could get a better player in return
for trading away a Gilbert or a Gilbert or a
Kirby or a Miller or a Wu And then that
would be more of a sure thing that you get
back in return, and then you still have the money
that you would have spent. I would rather do that personally, Well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
I'll buy this way. I would not take causes for
any of the other four. Okay, Castile is the only
one that contract because of the contract, yeah, you know,
and that's it. It's not player for player, No, I know,
it's contract for contract.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
And that's why you would get more in return for
a Gilbert or a Kirby or a Wu or a Miller. Right,
So I would rather do that and get a better
sure thing of a player that's also probably cheap because
you're not you have to give.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
You are sleeping on Casas a little bit. I think
you are really yep, all right, well I hope I'm
we just said Jim Kllos on this week and I asked,
and he said he wouldn't even trade Casses for Castile.
Cossas is too good of a player. And that's a
guy that does this for a living, evaluates prospects for
a living. He's pretty good at it. So yeah, I mean,

(01:03:09):
don't hate it if it happens because six foot five
power to spare. Yeah, you know, twenty four going on
twenty five years old, and it's only full season in
the majors at an eight sixty five ops.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Well, John Morossi. I've just looked Upris and Cossas, Luis Castillo,
and John Morosi said, if you're trading Louis Castillo, I
think you've got to get Cossas plus an infielder. That
would be a fair return.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
How about Rafaella Sadan Rafaella.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
There's something I can get on board with, right. I
just don't think the one from one is enough for
how good of a pitcher Luis Castillos like value.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
I'm not button heads with you on wanting to keep
Luis castill I understand why you want to get Luis Castile,
but if you're going to keep Louis Castillo, then I
have to ask on an off season podcast, how are
you going to get the Mariners offense to where you
anders Hurst want to get it otherwise? Because I don't
think you're going to be able to get there. I

(01:04:05):
don't know Michael and diming an infield together.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
I don't know their exact payroll restrictions. I don't know
what you know is available out there. I'm not going
to offer a solution even though that I just know
that this would be something that I wouldn't be excited for.
I'll just say that, so I'll react to whatever ends
up happening, whether they keep him or whether they end
up trading him, or whether they trade someone else. I

(01:04:31):
just know it would it would take a lot of
Like I listed those things, it would take a lot
of things for me to be happy with getting rid
of Luis Coste. And I don't think that all those
things are going to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Maa. I'm just worried that you. Now I am talking
about you personally. Yeah, And like Bishops of the world
and a lot of Mariner fans out there, are putting
here in a selves in a position where you are
never going to be happy with whatever they do. Like
that you there's nothing you're going to like if it

(01:05:02):
doesn't involve them trading for a superstar or spending a
billion dollars. Well, that's what I'm worried.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
The one thing that'll make us happy is if, even
if it's something we're not necessarily originally excited for, maybe
they do end up making that trade and I'm not happy,
but it ends up working out, I will be totally
fine admitting that it was wrong. And I was like, hey,
now we're going to the playoffs. We're in the alcs.
I'm totally cool with that, but like that, that's the
it's all results based at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
Well, I am a puzzle maker, and that's why I
love the offseason, because I want to figure out how
to put the puzzle together before they put the puzzle together, Right,
That's what I love to do. Yeah, and so so
you know, for me again, I don't want to trade
Luis Castillo, but right now, it just seems the way
that they've capped spending again seems like the logical path

(01:05:51):
that they're going to have to take totally now that
the rest of the baseball world has said we're nearly
not in the prospects for proven players game, which kind
of feels like where baseball is right now, which I
think is very exciting for the game. I love the
idea of heading into a season where twenty seven out
of thirty teams, Yeah, want to try and make the
playoffs this year. It's about freaking time. Yeah, let's watch

(01:06:12):
that season and shame on the Mariners for not reading
the tea leaves and figuring out that's where the league
was going to end up in twenty twenty fours off season.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Yeah, No, I mean and I'm with you, and if
it ends up working out, that's great. And the other
part of it is we don't know how long. You know.
Another part of the equation is maybe Cole Yung comes
up this next year and he lights the world on
fire when he you know. So that's one last piece
you have to fill. But I mean to at least
fill two of those trees pieces.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Whatever resources they use, they have to fill two of
those threes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Well, we will be listening to the next couple, I'd
say maybe a week or so to see what ends
up happening on that front, because they can't just do nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Are you sure.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yeah, I thought earlier you said you were okay if
they just did nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Well, no, we'll have sixteen million dollars to spend. You
got to kidning nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
All right, that'll do it for us. Thanks for being
with us. We appreciate it. Hopefully we both got out
some of the frustrations that you all feel. But we'll
do it again next week. Enjoy the stove. It is
heating up, so hopefully we will have a Mariner moved
to discuss next week for andrews Hurst Im Chuck Powell
have a great week,