January 4, 2024 • 50 mins
Chuck Powell and Anders Hirst break down the signing of Mitch Garver for the Mariners. Unfortunately, nothing else has really happened around the league, why is that? Plus, Chuck begs the question on if Matt Brash should be a starter.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Stove. What a kind of nameis that hot? So take them all
your God, so take them allyou whoa happy twenty twenty four. Welcome
(00:24):
to another edition of Stove. It'sbeen a couple of weeks. We respected
the holiday. Yeah, but nowwe are back and by the way,
less than two months away from springtraining, pitchers and catchers reporting. Shall
go Andrews Hurst and I need toget back on this horse. Yeah,
give you another episode of Stove.There's actually been a Mariner signing since last
(00:47):
we've done an episode. But beyondthat, ice Cold Market, ice ice
baby Anders. Yeah. I mean, this is one of the few times
that I disagree with Ellie. Itis not hot in here right now.
It is just not The stove iscold. It is very cold. Besides
the Mariners. Honestly, that's beenone of the bigger signings in the last
month or so. Stone Cold SteveMarket. That's what's going on right now.
(01:12):
There is nothing happening out there.Yeah, No, it's it's pretty
crazy. Like you know, youand I were just talking about like right
before we went on the air,and it's like, is something going to
happen? It feels like something kindof has to at this point, so
we're just kind of waiting for thatand refreshing seeing what's gonna go down and
if any dominoes are gonna fall overthe holiday break, and nothing really kind
(01:33):
of went down besides on Christmas Eve. Then the Mariners decided to throw out
that. Yeah, just like Idon't know if you call it a news
dump really because it's a good signing. I like it. But Mitch Garver,
former Texas Ranger and Minnesota Twin.Ye, I don't know where he
was before that. I don't thinkit's it okay, okay, but he's
at thirty one home runs in aninjury season a few years ago in Minnesota
(01:57):
Twins. Yeah, and he wasa big part of their team last year
that the World Series winning Texas Rangers. I think this is a great piece
for the Mariners, to be honest, someone who can play catcher when if
you need to give Calid day off. But I think a plug and play
d H almost every single day,someone with power who gets on base,
(02:20):
A veteran and at a good ata good price too. So I was
I was pretty happy with the signing. Uh and uh, you know,
I it's just kind of came downinto weird time as we were preparing for
the holidays and everything, and atChristmas Eve, Oh, Mariners signed Bitch
Garver. So what were your initialreactions to, you know, the Mariners
having the first big splash for themin the off season for twenty twenty.
(02:40):
I'm a little surprised you. Asfar as great, I don't know.
I don't go as far as feelinglike it was a great sign. Yeah,
but I like it. I'm okaywith it. There are certainly holes
to this player, and then thereare certainly positives. And the number one
positive is this guy can hit.Yeah. Now I know, you know,
(03:00):
you can call up his Baseball referencepage and you can see, you
know, seasons where he's played,and then he doesn't play right. And
even in those seasons there are strange, strange things about him. Sometimes he
hits for average, sometimes he doesn'tat all. Ye last year, for
example, in case people are wondering, as he's a platoon kind of guy,
(03:24):
no, all nineteen of his homeruns came against right handers, so
he didn't hit a single home runagainst the lefty, even though he played
against nearly every lefty that the Rangersfaced, and yet he hit three seventy
against hit three seventy against lefties lastyear, So he's really kind of an
odd player to kind of analyze.But my first initial reaction is, I
(03:52):
know Mitch Garver can hit. Yeah, if he can stay healthy, he
can hit, and he does alot of the things that this organization he
loves adores, and so when Jerrysays this is somebody that we've had on
our radar this entire offseason, Ibelieve him. Yeah, And I think
that negotiation went on for a longtime and they get him at a rate
(04:14):
which two years, twenty four milliondollars. It seems high for Mitch Garver,
but by the way the market isgoing right now, it seems like
it falls actually a little low ofa price. So he can hit,
and if you can keep him healthy, he can He could be a four
hitter yeah for you. At worsta five hit middle lineup guy for sure.
(04:34):
And let me backtrack a little biton the great comment on the signing.
I think in the right context,this is a great signing if you
supplement the actual needs of this teamobviously outfield, a little bit of infield
as well, and then this islike one of those extra pieces This is
where this signing is perfect for theMariners. It's like an extra piece that
(04:56):
you can add into that lineup.But as it is right now, obviously
you take the whole market as well, which is nothing's really happened besides that
recently. I think you're right.It's this can't be the only thing,
is what you're saying. Oh,sure, yeah, they need more.
But I like the the idea ofhaving him on the Marriers next year.
I'll put it that way, mmhmm. And to your point, I
(05:19):
think it's mostly a d H buthe can catch. Yeah, And I
know people hated three catchers on aroster last year. Theoretically I like that
ye catch as long as one ofthem has the versatility to play another position
and is in everyday bat right.So I mean Cooper Hummel did not satisfy
(05:44):
that a year ago. But theidea that you would have had Tom that
that the idea that you can putCal, keep Cal in the lineup every
day because you can put garberbine thepot, put Zavala behind the plate,
and so to have Garver in thelineup most days and have Raleigh in the
(06:08):
lineup nearly every day and now you'vegot two guys that can give him a
break behind the plate, because that'sthat's that's where the wear and tear is
on a catcher. So the theyou can't do that. If you only
have two catchers, then cal Rawleyhas to take every fifth day off hit
(06:28):
pretty much. So, I meanwe saw that last year. Even when
he was hot, they had totry to find ways to give him time
off. And even when he wasrefusing to take time off, they're like,
Cal, you've got to take timeoff. We can't do that.
We want you for the long haul. So when you have three, three
capable catchers, and Garver's not agood defensive catcher, but he he'll throw
(06:49):
the equipment on, he'll call agame and he's not going to kill you.
It's not like you're putting you know, he's no Luis Torrens, right,
but even more egregious. It's notlike it's Colton Wong. Hey,
Colton, have you ever caught beforeyou're throwing some weirdo behind the plate.
You know what he's doing. Tohave three guys that can catch, I
(07:12):
think really benefits the idea that Cow'sin the lineup every day. And obviously
we're gonna need bats totally. Solet's put it in the context of the
rest of the market right now,because we were kind of just talking about
what else has happened, and that'sbeen kind of it. So where do
you see the Mariners kind of goingfrom here? You know, I was
(07:39):
looking at the free agent tracker.Literally nothing else besides that of any note
has happened, and I don't thinkany trades have really happened either, and
so it's like it's weird sale trade. Yeah for Grissom, which I thought
that was really clever trade from bothI was gonna say, good for both
sides. Yeah, Braves needed somepitching and you know Red Sox could use
(08:00):
a decent you know, prospect Slashalready ready a major league player in that
department. So yeah, no,I think there's there's trades to be had
all the way around in that departmentwhere it would help both teams and including
the Mariners. So yeah, Ijust I think it's kind of weird how
things are going down at this point. But I mean, anything else on
(08:22):
Garver before we kind of move onto the rest of the market, I
feel like that's basically kind of itat this point. I think there is
one. I think there's one otherthing to mention about him, and that
is, I mean, he's inhis thirties, okay, and had some
injury history as well. The injuryhistory for whatever reason, and there are
Mitch Haniger, was this right?Every other year a guy goes down,
(08:46):
the guy goes down, and soI don't know why Mitch Garver's done that.
It's kind of wishful thinking to thinkthat a Tiger is going to change
his stripes now that he's in histhirties. Yeah, and if it is
the year for the down year,then that means he's doing injury this year,
and then next year he'll perform reallywell. You know. I guess
(09:09):
the saving grace and all of thatis you're signing him to be primarily a
DH. You're gonna catch every oncein a while, still have two other
catchers on the roster, maybe mixingsome knee bins on the side. But
if you can keep him in aDH roll and keep him healthy, then
(09:31):
I think the guy's going to hit. I mean, even last year watching
the Rangers in the playoffs, everytime that I mean, he always had
good at bats, definitely, andwhen he hit the ball. He didn't
even have to square it up,and it's like, did he really hit
that ball that far? I thoughthe I thought he just popped that up.
He's got that kind of sneaky power, big guy with a true clue
(09:52):
at the plate, very good onbase percentage. It's just a matter of
keeping him healthy. I think thethe best way to keep him healthy is
to d h him almost all thetime. I think he could even play
first base and give Tie a dayoff on occasion, definitely. And then,
like I said, with the threecatcher rotation, you're going to keep
Zavalla on the roster who you gotin the Geno trade, and he's going
(10:16):
to be your primary backup. ButGarber can play the position and I think
should every once in a while.Yeah, and now you mentioned that,
you know, watching the World Seriespretty closely last year, he was one
of those players that I didn't knowa ton about going into it. Like
I knew most of the Rangers lineup, and obviously a lot of the Diamondbacks
(10:37):
were new, but you kind ofgot to know him by their run a
little bit. But he was oneof those that, like, WHOA,
this guy is a much better playerthan like his reputation shows, at least
from the hitting perspective of the ofthe world, which is why he's a
primarily DH for them as well.So I'm interested to see how he does.
I don't know if it's a hewas in the Rangers ballpark situation,
which is one of the reasons whyhis stats took a pretty big jump front.
(11:01):
That's not the hitters park that heused to be, right, new
the new building is a little tougherto I mean, they're they have some
of the deepest fences in the sport. Yeah, it's not the bandbox that
it was before. Okay, gotcha? Okay, So yeah, I then
that's pretty intriguing to see, youknow, what he might bring. I
don't know what his you know,personality is like obviously, I don't know
(11:22):
him personally. I don't know ifhe's a big leadership guy since he's kind
of been around. Uh, thisorganization doesn't value that anyway. Yeah,
good point. So yeah, theyprobably weren't even thinking about that, Okay,
Okay, So, uh, youknow anything else? No, I
think that's good. Okay, Look, and yeah, there's you're right though,
I mean, we haven't We've gotan ice cold market right now.
(11:45):
And so if you're thinking about what'snext, I mean, I would say
this about the ice cold market,there's good news bad news. Bad news
is it's boring. Yeah, andand we we want action, and you
know, think about what we're doing. It's hot stove, right We're sitting
there refreshing baseball trade rumors every sixteenseconds at least I do. And I
(12:05):
just had to stop doing it.I just I mean, I had to
just step away for I feel leastprepared for this stove than anyone what we've
done totally because over the holidays,you know, I don't even have work
to distract me. I'm just off. I've just got time off. I
didn't go and see my family,so I didn't even have annoying family to
distract me. It was just isthere ever going to be a move?
(12:26):
I'm even sitting here on Christmas Daylike expecting there to be some big transaction
on the holiest of holies, andyou just had to I just had to
stop. And so it's been boring. The good news though about the ice
cold market is that it's cold foreveryone. Yeah. So the last time
we did a podcast, everything thatwe discussed as a possibility for the Mariners
(12:50):
is pretty much still there. I'msure a couple of things have kind of
you know, been exhausted, buteverything there to put together a highly productive
offseason is still there. Right.So if you're sitting there as a Mariner
fan, like, why won't wemake any moves? No one else is
making move, no one else's Meganmoves, and every fan base not called
(13:13):
the Dodgers is angry and wondering why. I'll give you an example. Do
you know the Mariners have spent thefifteenth most money this offseason just from Mitch
Garver, basically just from Mitch carbThat's crazy. So they're in the middle
of the pack. They're in themiddle of the pack, just under the
fifty four percent. The show he'slooking for. There are four franchises that
(13:33):
haven't spent a dollar. Yeah,and two of those franchise one of them's
the Yankees, so they did addSodo. Yeah. Two of those franchises
hasn't done anything, literally, notrades, nothing, nothing to this point
in the off season. So thatjust shows you how cold the market is.
Yeah, that's that's pretty crazy.I guess one other thing that happened
(13:54):
since we now that I remember it, since we talked obviously we talked about
a tawny But Yamamono did go tothe Dodgers. Yes, he joined his
Japanese teammate, an even thing.You want to update on him? What
have you heard about how good he'sgoing to be? You know, do
you expect the dog Like we talkeda little bit about this last episode.
Now that the Dodgers are kind offorming the super team, like, what
(14:16):
what does Yamamoto do to those chances? Does it severely increase it because they
had maybe a hole in the pitchingdepartment or is it just kind of all
right? They're slightly improving, butthey're still like have to go through the
gauntlet of the baseball season. Well, I mean, I think I did
mention this on a previous podcast.I mean, the Dodgers are so far
and away going to be the favorite, yeah, in the World Series,
(14:39):
but I think that they have beeneach of No, I wouldn't say last
night, not going into last year, but I would say more often than
not over the last five to sevenyears, they've been the favorite. Agree,
And they've only won one world titleand that was the asterisk twenty twenty
year. Yeah, so I'm stillgoing to say that the field. I'm
(15:00):
going to take the field to winthe World Series over any I don't,
I don't. I don't care ifthey add three more, they bring back
Bellinger and add you know, BabeRuth praised him from the dead. I'm
still going to take the field.That's just the way that the sport works.
But it is. Yeah, I'mamoto I'm going to expect him to
(15:24):
be one of the best ten,maybe best five pitchers in the sport.
Wow, Like right off the bat, I think that's how good a player
that they they got. And nowthey've added two of them and they've kicked
all those finances down the road,which every day that passes Anders feels slimy
to me. I mean, Iget it, it's within the rules,
and you're not going to get awaywith that unless you have a player willing
(15:48):
to be a participant in that.So, I mean, but there's just
nobody else in the sport can kickone hundred million dollars at payroll ten years
into their future without even blinking aneye, right, and that's what the
Dodgers have done. So it feelsfeels slimy, but it's not. And
(16:10):
every other franchise would have loved tohave the same situation. But they've picked
up two absolute gems to an alreadyloaded team. Yeah, I'm interested to
see how that's going to affect themdown the road on if like, like
we kind of mentioned with Doughtani,if the next owner is going to have
to pick that up and just avery ramped up version of the Rams rebuild
(16:33):
where they went all in for acouple of years in the NFL and now
they're kind of even though they're stilldecent again this year, they're having to
rebuild the roster while they're doing that, but even more so to the point
where it's like you have one hundredmillion that you're of players that aren't even
on your team anymore. So's it'llbe interesting to see how that goes ten
years down the road, because Ihave never seen something like this in the
sports before. I am an either, and nobody in baseball has, and
(16:56):
I think baseball's mystified by it.Yeah, And it's as if the Dodgers
know something that we don't, likethe television deals going to change, or
the owner's like, I'm not evengoing to be alive in ten years,
so what does it matter. It'slike the people that just keep racking up
debt saying I'm going to die anyway, so might as well. Yeah,
and then there might be something tothat. Yeah, I want the best
(17:17):
team possible for the next ten years, and then I'm gonna either die or
be out of the sport. Idon't care after that. Yeah, so
why not spend somebody else's money.I would think I mentioned this before,
but Baseball made did not crack downon this kind of activity because they didn't
think they had to. Yeah,and I told you this in the past.
(17:41):
It's like it's like our gun laws. Ye, like when they first
put the right to bear arms secondYeah, yeah, nobody was anticipating that
you'd be able to fire off twohundred rounds in the three seconds. You
know, there would be ammunition ofthat power and capabilities. So yes,
Baseball allowed these teams like the Dodgersto push money into the future. They
(18:07):
didn't expect anything like this. Butnow that somebody has abused it, they've
found this little clause, this littlewrinkle, and they've abused something. I
think they probably will step in,yeah and say you can't do this anymore.
We're gonna limit how much money youcan put on the books beyond ten
years. Maybe you eliminate any moneythat you can put on the books behind
(18:30):
ten years. And if you havea problem with it, blame the Dodgers,
because I mean I get it,they stayed within the rules, but
it feels feels wrong, and Ithink it's wrong to every other organization out
there. And I hope there aren'tcopycats, but they're probably are going to
do yeah. I mean, especiallynow they've seen that this is like,
oh, you can actually do this, So yeah, I mean, what's
gonna stop Cohen from doing? God, I don't know. That's something I
(18:53):
don't even think about. He's alreadyspending a ton of money, so why
don't just throw it all down theroad to get some more in there.
I think they're also blame for thecold market. Yeah, I mean think
about it. Every agent, everyplayer out there was like, well,
we know you've got money, BlueJayson, Yeah you just offered this much.
Yeah, we know you've got money. Cubs they're one of the four
teams hadn't spent a dollar. Yeah, the Cubs, that's crazy. They
(19:15):
were in on Otani. Yeah,so we know you've got money, and
so now all of these other freeagents are, well, we know you've
got it, you're holding out onus, So we'll wait. Yeah,
wait, we'll wait. We'll wait. And I don't think the money is
out there for them. I thinkthat Otani and Yama Moto were that special,
(19:36):
Okay, that unique, And anybodythat thinks they're getting anywhere close to
what those two guys received, they'regetting bad information from their agent. Yeah.
So Andrews, I'd say, youknow, get a parka because I
think it's going to remain cold fora long time. We had an off
season a couple of years ago whereMachado and Harper both went into spring training.
(20:00):
I think we're going to see alot of that this year. Is
there any situation where you see oneof the bigger name free agents and I
mean even name like specifically who,but where you see them don't sign before
the start of the season. Icould see that. Yeah, I could
see that happening, you know,and it's it's going to be a Boris
agent or a Boris client because theyjust want the most money. Yeah,
(20:21):
and he's gonna hold out and holdout and hold out he's famous for it.
Yeah, Hosmer held out with himinto spring training and he got the
deal that he wanted. So,I mean, I think that that's why
we've got this cold market right now, and as baseball fans, we don't
like it. I'd really like tosee them put together an off season trading
(20:41):
deadline right and freeze all moves,yeah, after a certain point, so
we can create that frenzy that theNFL gets to take advantage of, the
NBA to agree, gets to takeadvantage of, even though they have so
many contract laws that hardly anybody evenslips through the nets to become a free
agent in the NBA. But theNBA free agency frenzy is just an amazing
(21:03):
three days. Oh it is footballfans, and we just aren't used to
be the Winter Meetings. But clearlythat's not going to ever be the same
unless baseball adopts some sort of wrinkleto their off season. Yeah, it's
weird because when we talked kind ofgoing into the off season, it was
like, Okay, well I'll waitfor a Tawny and then once that happens,
everyone will start signing. Because hewas the first down out of fall
(21:26):
and that just hasn't really happened thatthis year. So it's like, I
don't know if they his contract exceededa lot of expectations and a lot of
players are now expecting more than theyoriginally were, or what else is going
on. I don't know what itis, but it just seems like there's
stakes. Yeah, it does forpeople like us who talk about the off
season. Yeah, there's nothing toreally talk about right now. Yeah,
(21:48):
I'm done refreshing. I'm just I'llcheck every once in a while during the
course of the day, but I'mnot going to be a slave to it
anymore. Before we get to therumors on what the Mariners have been linked
to recently, let's let's take alook at you know, what you at
this point think is a realistic thingfor them to do. For now,
(22:10):
let's just start with free agents.If you see any more free agent signings
for the Mariners, we just spentlike we obviously with our money situation we
talked about on previous episodes, wehad about thirty million to play with.
We used twelve of it on MitchGarver. Where do you see the other
supposed eighteen million going? I reallydon't see it and this is the good
news about the free agent market beingfrozen. I don't think we're I don't
(22:36):
even think we bought any ice skates. Okay. I don't think we're going
to be playing on that pond atall. Okay, maybe a couple of
little minor things towards the end,relief pictures, some process. But I
don't expect them, not just tonot be a big player, yeah,
but based off of all the stuffthat we've unfortunately had to hear about the
organization this offseason, I don't thinkthey're going to be a player at all.
(22:57):
Okay, I think they're waiting.I think they are waiting for some
of that money to come off andso that they can you know, right
now, even the teams that aretalking about trading, they're waiting for some
of those players to come off sothat it increases the value for their their
pieces. Because as soon as Bellingercomes off, then that's that's more of
(23:21):
a desperation for the teams that needsomething. They didn't get it right right,
and so I think they're they're sortof waiting for that and until you
know, they're ready to sell,because I think the Mariners are in buy
mode as trade partners. But they'renot going to sell until the market comes,
you know, favors them a littlebit more. And for that to
(23:41):
happen, you've got to get freehitters off of the market. So I
don't think we're we are, froma free agent standpoint, going to be
players, but trade I just can'timagine that we're not going to be,
and very aggressively. So let's justthrow this scenario out there for you.
If you had two more additions tothe team, what positions would you want
(24:06):
them to be at? Have toget an outfielder, right, I mean
we only have Julio right now.Yeah, right, yeah, No,
it's true, we do. Imean as a gamer, you can get
by with him. Dylan Mark canplay outfield. Well, he can play
outfield, doesn't mean he's good atdon't want him to can Zone. I
(24:27):
mean I did read something recently aboutcan Zone that I think they like him,
man, Yeah, that people thinkthat there is something to this guy.
I didn't see it last I thoughthe was a terrible defender, even
though he made one spectacular a coupleof spectacular plays, and then the other
time he looked like Bam beyond theice. But I mean, I didn't
(24:48):
see it. There are those thatdo so, but I mean, I
think you got to get two outfields. Yeah, you certainly have to have
one, at least one. Yeah, and even Scott has yelled that from
the mountaintop. We got to haveat least one. And then I don't
know about you, but I'm justnot satisfied with the idea of Rojas at
(25:11):
second, yeah, and Uryus atthird. Yeah. If they're teaming together
and playing second or third, Idon't care. They can they can both
play either position. Yeah, okay, all right, I'll play ball with
you. I mean, I don'tlove it, but okay, you seem
to like it. Yeah, it'syour team. Let's see if you've got
something here, so you know,fresh start both of them. Put them
(25:34):
at third base, let them platoonthird base, or let them platoon second
base. But there is no wayon earth I want to see them both
in the lineup at the opening day. Yeah, all right, let's play
doomsday scenario. Now, where doyou think this team talent wise ranks.
Obviously you can still outperform your expectations, as we've seen them do before.
(25:56):
But if this is their roster rightnow, the what the Mariners have basically
with adding Mitch Garver and Ureus whilegetting rid of Gino Kellennick Marco. I
guess you could throw into there fromthe main pieces of the big league roster,
where do you think this team fallsa in relation to last year and
be in relation of the rest ofthe league. Well, right now,
(26:18):
they're not as good a team asthey were to finish last season, and
they missed the playoffs. But Ialso think they underachieved by missing the playoffs.
Here's the thing, and this iswhat a Mariner fan and I know
I'll disgruntled and angry everybody is,but you still have arguably the best starting
(26:38):
rotation in the sport. Yeah,I agree, you have not only a
good nucleus for a bullpen. Yeah, but if as much as you want
to bash Jerry, he is provenin the area of finding arms. And
then Pete Woodworth and the organization developingrelief pitching talent. I mean last year
(27:03):
was justin topa. Yeah, whata fine he was. I mean,
Seawald was one of those type ofguys. Swanson was one of those type
of guys. So he has aneye for who's going to work out of
the bullpen and whatever system that theyhave in place. And I don't know
who gets the line's share of creditfor that. They know how to develop
relief pitching. So when you havearguably the best starting rotation and arguably the
(27:27):
best consistent bullpen, yeah, yougot a puncher's chance at anything. Absolutely,
So that puts you, you know, right on the verge of the
playoffs. And that's without adding anythingelse because your pitching is so damn good.
And by the way, I thinkKirby's going to get better totally he
is. I think Gilbert is goingto take a step up. Well,
(27:48):
he could take a step forward.He was going to take a step You
get ready for half a year,which you didn't this year. Hopefully he
doesn't get injured again. But Ithink he was going to have a good
year last year. Agree, Ithink maybe I'm drinking the kool aid.
No, I thought he was instore for a great year. I'm with
you, And I think people havecomplained a little bit too much on the
Robbie Ray performance because even twenty twentytwo, like he didn't have his cy
(28:11):
young year, but he was agood pitcher all the innings all year.
It was a leader which he neverwas in his career. Scott Servis loves
him, yes, and he's justhe's a guy. I think this is
something as well, having a leftyin your rotation, especially in a three
or four game series, when youknow hitters are so used to facing from
(28:32):
one side of the plate, youthrow something different at him and they have
to use a different lineup if they'rea platoon team or whatever. It changes
a lot of things and it's helpful. So I think there's a lot to
that. He throws a lot ofstrikeouts. He probably hits a little too,
gets get hit for too many homeruns, but he's an innings eater
and a guy in the clubhouse thatyou like. I'm with you. I
would have I thought he was goingto have a great year last year.
(28:53):
And kind of going into that,let's talk a little bit about the outside
perspective of the Mariner's rotation, becauseI've seen some like lists on like,
oh, top five rotations in baseball, and I've rarely seen the Mariners on
those lists, which is like,and I'm not one to pump the tires
of my hometown baseball team because I'mas critical as anyone is about them,
(29:18):
but I'm with you. Yeah,really, But I honestly think that we
have one of, if not thebest pitching rotations in baseball. And I'm
trying to think, just between youand I, which which team is even
close at this point to them interms of a starting rotation. Oh,
who would you take? I mean, well, I put ours against just
(29:42):
about anybody out there. I wouldtoo, and I've seen the same list,
and I don't understand how they're nottop That's what I'm saying. Why.
I mean, maybe there are acouple of arguments to be made for
other teams being number one, Iguess, but certainly the Mariners are top
five. I see a lot ofpeople saying that we don't have a true
ace. I don't see how youdon't. Yeah, that's what I'm saying,
(30:06):
Kerb. Like I said, Kirby'sgonna take a step forward, and
he's not far off of ACE material. What was he a four or five
war pitcher last year? That's crazy. Yeah, let's say trying to remember
who they might have even put inthere. I guess you could say the
Dodgers now with Yamamoto and but theDodgers were crippling down the stretch last year.
(30:26):
I mean they're they're throwing rookies outthere. I mean, that's count
on Tony Gonsolin jump bound. Imean, you know, uh Miller and
I love Shean as a talent forthe Dodgers, but again, that's a
guy that hasn't played a full seasonof Major League baseball. Now there's Bobby
(30:47):
Miller. They don't have Ureeus anymoreand never will again. Right. Uh
so yeah, they've added Yama Motto, they don't have Kershaw anymore. Yep.
So we have a better starting rotationthan Dodgers. Alright, so I'll
start there. Yeah, yeah,I agree with that. Did I see
something? Who was the one whogot glass? Now? Oh that was
(31:08):
the Dodge Okay, so he's nowa part of that. So glads now
and Yama Motto and Bobby Miller.I guess I would assume Deeler if he
comes back healthy. Oh yeah,so I'm going kind of going off the
top of my head. Yeah,no on this particular question, but I
mean, yeah, they're going tohave a good rotation, there's no question
about it. Yeah, But Idon't see how anybody couldn't put this group
(31:32):
in their top five heading into theyear. And I think there's an argument
to be made for it being thebest starting completely agree, And I think
that's what's made the Astros so successfulthe past couple of years is because they've
had that starting pitching, and thatwas one of the reasons I think they
took a step back this past yearis because they didn't have the dominant starting
pitching that they had the last fiveyears six years. So yeah, I'm
(31:52):
with you. I think Maria's probablyhave the best you call me a homer,
probably have the best starting pitching inbaseball. You could throw out full
pitching staff as well because of anabove average two good good bullpen, So
yeah, you could. You couldput this pitching staff against any team in
the league and you just need averagehitting at that point. But that's one
(32:14):
of the reasons why it's frustrating thatyou have it all your last year.
If you can be a top tenoffense, yeah, with this pitching staff,
you've got a shot. You're goingto be in the playoffs. Yeah,
and you've got a shot at winningthe whole world's whole thing. And
they were creeping towards the end ofthe year of being a top ten offense
and then they fell apart right thereat the end of the season, but
(32:34):
they were there. They were aboutready to beat that exact mold. It
would have gotten them into the postseasonhad they stayed on that trajectory, not
stayed as hot as they were inAugust. But if had they stayed on
the trajectory of climbing toward a topten offense in baseball, they would have
been in the playoffs. And I'mtelling you they would have been awfully dangerous.
Okay, that's encouraging to think about. But we also have gotten rid
(32:59):
of some of those offensive pieces,so we need to resupplement that with some
other stuff. So there have beensome rumors around the Mariners recently related Yeah,
which is weird to me, Like, is Jerry just obsessed with getting
more pictures, Like, let's getsome more pictures and more pictures. I
think they're terrified of having this pitchingand then trading away too much of it
(33:27):
and then oh man, I reallymiss all of that pitching. Yeah you
had. I think that there's they'reoperating out of fear, and I don't
think that that's the way that youcan be. I mean, you did
all this work to get in thischampionship window, and now you guys are
not doing the things it takes topush you over the top. So even
Hollander mentioned it in the famous theinfamous conference, talking about like you have
(33:52):
good pitching until you don't. AndI okay, man, But the only
thing that I can think of isbecause they're so scared of losing their depth,
they're starting pitching depth that if theygo out and entertain like a cheap
free agent like James Paxton or thisDylan cease rumor that has popped up,
(34:15):
the idea is, okay, wellhe got cease, now, now he
can trade Wu. You already youcan trade Wu right now. I don't
want you to. I like Wu, but if you get some pieces that
help you on the offensive end,I have to. You don't have a
choice, and it's Wu or Miller. Now, if you get cease,
you can then go Wu and Millerat that stage, or Wu and Hancock,
(34:39):
or you know. So, Ithink they're just this is something that
has happened before major League Baseball history, that these general managers fall in love
with their guys so much yea,that they get paralysis from it and they
won't move anybody. No great probablypicked these guys. You gotta have some
(35:02):
killer moves. They need finishing moves. They needed them last year and didn't
make them, and look what happened. You missed the playoffs and the next
thing you know, you're spouting offabout fifty four percent. So this year
you have a chance, even thoughthe organization has told you we got to
peel back. You've gotten rid ofthe money. Yeah, all right,
we don't have Gino anymore, wedon't have Tao anymore. You've gotten rid
(35:25):
of the money. Now you've gotto go add pieces and you're not going
to spend in free agency, soyou've got to do it through trade.
And there are bats out there.They're still out there. The Twins still
have their surplus, the Race stillhave their surplus, and they're both looking
for pitching, and you have pitching. You've got to move one of your
top pitchers. So do you thinkit's more Gilbert and Kirby Now I'm talking
(35:47):
about wou Miller or Hancock or eventwo of them. Yeah, I agree.
Do you think it's more of whentalking about their fear to get rid
of these guys, do you thinkit's more of they're afraid that they're going
to go and be dominant in someother organization, like kind of thinking about
it from an external perspective, ordo you think that getting rid of them
will get will obviously shorten our depthin the starting pitching department, and internally
(36:14):
the team will not perform as wellbecause maybe you're not as dominant in that
aspect as you were in previous years. I think it's the latter. I
don't think it's the fear of wehad it, we let some of it
go, and now look at itnow Luis Castillo has an injury and is
(36:35):
out for a month. Yeah,and now we're short on pitching. Damn
it. I knew he shouldn't havegot rid of pitching. Yeah. I
think that's that's their issue. Ireally do believe before the officer, they
know they have to have an outfielder. Yeah, and they know they're not
they do. They know, andthey're not going to spend it, spend
it through free agency to get one. They're going to trade one of them.
(36:55):
And and probably what's happening is thereand you know they're negotiating, they're
trying to maximize the deal. Ithink they know they have to trade one,
so if they're kicking the tires onpitchers, it's probably just to give
them some insurance to feel better aboutmoving guys you know that that they value
and to thin out that pitching.You just can't operate if you're a general
(37:20):
manager who operates under the principle ofnot believing in your own evaluations and you
don't make trades out of fear thatyou might get beat on a trade.
You just see, I'm even oneof those guys anders like I don't understand
the fear of trading within your division. If you think you're better at it
than the other GM, I wantto trade it, make it, Yeah,
(37:44):
because I think I'm going to beatyou on every trade that we make.
And and not only do I strengthenmy team against you, I can
also weaken you. Yeah, that'sto me. I want to trade in
the division. So any general managerthat's not trading out of fear, what
if Brian Woo ends up being thenext thirty game winner, you already have
(38:09):
to give them. Yeah, likechill, Yeah, you can't operate that
way. You have surplus pitching andyou have a dearth of offense. You
have to trade the pitching for theoffense. And now it's your job as
a general manager, as a president, whoever's pulling the trigger on that deal,
to get the deal that makes thisteam better and makes it a championship
(38:34):
contender. And there has to bean the only way you can do it.
No, yeah, and there hasto be some sort of like desire
for balance. You know, youcan't like very rarely do you see teams
in any sport, but especially baseball, that have, you know, such
a good one side of the balland then a average to below average other
(38:54):
side of the ball and have successand win the World Series. Usually there's
at least some sort of balance.You could argue the Royals of twenty fifteen
was like the one outlier, butevery other team that I'm thinking about,
at least in recent ten years orso, was at least above average in
(39:14):
both sides. And right now theMariners offensively, it's hard to argue that
they are, especially with losing thosepieces they're not. So it's just you
can't be so obsessed with winning oneway, especially one way that we get
it. Pitching wins in the postseason. But you have to get to the
postseason first, and you know whatactually gets you to the postseason. A
(39:34):
lot of the offensive teams that weresuccessful last year ended up going to the
postseason. So I think offense actuallyplays more in the regular season and then
pitching plays more in the postseason,at least in recent years. I agree.
No, not, I agree withthat completely, especially the rule changes.
Look at the Baltimore Oriols exactly.Look at the Baltimore ORI's did in
the regular season, Yes, andthen they got in the postseason. They
didn't have the pitching, they didn'thave the horses, and they were out
(39:55):
in the first round. Exactly.No, I agree with that. And
Texas Rangers are a great example.Yeah, they were an offensive team that
got into the playoffs and then they'repitching, which was terrible, especially the
bullpen. They got hot, that'sall they did. That's not a championship
(40:15):
caliber team, and they didn't havethe pitching to win now, but they
did because their bullpen got hot.Just like the Atlanta Braves, with their
worst team they've had in seven years, won the World Series with no Ronald
l'acunya and a patchwork offense and Rosariogot hot, and that bullpen was the
(40:37):
bullpen was untouchable. That entire prostseason. That was not an untouchable bullpen.
Now AJ minder Tyler mattson Will Smith, he's been on the last three World
Series teams. By the way,Jackson, I mean that was that was
not a good bullpen. But theygot hot at the right time and they
wrote it. But the Rangers,they were far more equipped to win in
the regular season than they were inthe postseason. So I agree with that
(40:59):
in assessment entirely. And here's astrange part about yess Anders. If Jerry
knows this, I mean we Buckywas joking with him one time at spring
training and asked, if you couldhave a top fight hitter or a top
fight pitcher, you know that justappeared out of nowhere, right, what
(41:20):
would you rather have? And Buckywanted him to say offense, but he
was saying it almost like jokingly becausehe knows what he's going to say.
He knew he was going to saypitching. And Jerry goes, oh,
that's easy. He goes hit herreally all the way, really yeah,
And Bucky kind of thought he waslike kidding and he goes, oh,
no, it's not even close.What hitter is it? Because maybe just
(41:42):
believe him but I think maybe Ithink maybe the organization and he has just
a better eye for him for pitchingthan they do for hitting. Maybe that's
because he was a pitcher or youyou feel like you organizationally with whatever analytics
they use, I'm not going toget into that can elevate a above average
pitcher into a good slash elite pitcherand then not have that as much as
(42:07):
on the hitting side. You needsomeone who's actually very very talented to come
in here and hit because they can'treally elevate them as much. Well coaching
or whatever. Well, it's weirdbecause they went for a number of years
pitcher in the draft at the topof the draft. You would think that
that says what you value and they'regoing and what you need because you know,
this is not the NFL where wehave a hole in our pass rush.
(42:30):
We have to get a pass rusher. Yeah, this is no you
take you pretty much take the bestplayer available. Yeah. In the MLB
drafty and so to go Kirby andGilbert and Hancock and even last year yah,
yeah, and but but there aresome young players on the horizon that
people are starting to rave about.Montes and we still haven't even seen film
(42:52):
in Celestin Young Cole Young. Imean they do. They probably for the
first time ever. They've got moreexciting hitters, yes, coming up through
the system, and then they dobecause they have recently called up so many.
But they're not gonna contribute this year, yes, And this is a
(43:13):
championship window for this team. Absolutely, And so you know what you got
to do. You know the restrictionsthat were placed on you by ownership,
and I think it's bull crap,but you have restrictions placed on you.
You've done the hard part of carvingaway salary. I still don't understand why
we had to get rid of JaredKellnick for nothing, But you know what
(43:36):
you have to do, and thereare deals that can be had, but
you have to give up a qualityyoung starter in order to get what this
team needs. Because there's enough depthstarting pitching wise, even without wu Miller
or Hancock. We have to geta hitter or two. All right,
give me a quick chuck choice.We got just a couple of minutes here.
(43:59):
I'm gonna throw this out at you. We haven't talked much in this
offseason about Matt Brash, okay,and I I don't know why he he
gets criticized as much as he doesby some people love him. Yeah,
I love him. Yeah, Idon't think he's a closer, but I
well, that's kind of my Chuck'schoice question for you. Is he a
(44:20):
starter? Because he was a starterand then they put him in the bullpen
because they wanted to see him atthe major league level and they didn't think
he was quite ready from a start, but they couldn't deny the two pitches,
the fastball and the slider or sweeperor whatever it is he is.
And then and then the next yearthey were I don't know if they like
(44:45):
punished him for being on the Canadianbaseball team, but they made a really
odd decision like, well, ifyou're going to do that, then you've
got to stay in the bullpen.So they kept him in the bullpen and
used the crap out of him.He's got a rubber arm. Yeah,
I mean, when you're thinking aboutworried about trading away from your starting pitching
(45:05):
depth, even though Anders and Iand most people listening think that that's an
unnecessary worry. Yeah, is MattBrash somebody that could add to this depth
as a starter to make you feelbetter about trading away a young pitcher,
yea, because I and he's youngenough now that he could transition to starting
pitcher. If you do this foranother year, it's probably over. He's
(45:29):
probably a reliever for the rest ofhis career. Yeah, it's tough for
me to really have a two pitchpitcher, which Matt Brash is in the
starting rotation, because over the courseof you know, five six innings,
however long you go, you're gonnaneed more to kind of get. Obviously,
you can develop pitches on his side. We've seen Robbie Raid do it.
(45:50):
We've seen Logan Gilbert do it recently. Obvi've seen Andre's munies do it
from the bullpen. But it justseems like that those are his two dominant
pitches and he's better in smaller incrementsthan it does over a long period of
time. And to be honest,I don't like at this point right now.
Maybe maybe if you make a tradeor two and you get rid of
(46:13):
two guys for a big bat,then you consider it just to have that
depth, But at this point Idon't think you need it. I think
you need him more in the bullpen, and you need that kind of dominant
stuff from him, because we saweven after especially after the Paul Seawall trade,
that you didn't really have that guy. There was Munos and Brash every
single day, and you can't blamethem every single day obviously. So I
(46:36):
think there their usage for both ofthem, especially Matt Brash, I think
right now is more useful in thebullpen. I see what you're thinking though,
because I disagree with that. Yeah, I just think it's so hard
to find. It's so much harderto find starting pitchers. Yeah, it
is than it is to find reliefpitchers, especially this organization, And so
yeah, we found one. Butif he's more valuable as a starter,
(47:00):
and he has the abilities to bea starter, and I think he's got
a bit of a rubber arm,yeah, I agree with that. And
he just doesn't have two pitches.They're ridiculous, yeahous, and he can
make the move ball. I don'tthink he really has a straight change.
I don't think Robbie Ray does either. No, but he developed that two
seamer which kind of goes the otherway, which is helpful. His it's
(47:22):
bugs bunny stuff. Yeah, whenyou have bugs bunny stuff, all you
got to do with that is withit. Yeah, exactly. That's the
other thing I was going to say, is like he's got to learn to
throw strikes more. He can't bewalking as much as he was when he
was a starter and did in thebullpen as well. We know he strikes
out everyone that he faces almost It'sit's pretty nuts. But yeah, if
you if you develop so I thinkthree things need to happen for that to
(47:45):
be a situation. Make a tradeor two to get some offense, and
then you do get rid of wuMiller and or Hancock. Uh, develop
a third pitch at least just tohave something else to throw out, and
then you know, control the strikesin a little bit more than I think
you have a really good starter.I'm just thinking of from this perspective,
(48:06):
and then we'll wrap it up.Yeah, it is, if you know,
if you really are like so worriedabout giving away your pitching depth,
and I don't think they are.I think they're gonna move a seat,
They're going to move a starter fora hitter or two before this offseason comes
to a close. But if you'resitting there like wringing your hands over not
(48:29):
wanting to give away your starting pitchingdepth. You might have another guy here,
and I hope you haven't forgot abouthim as that option, because even
though I love him in the bullpentoo a lot more than most people do,
I think he could be a dominantstarter at the major league level.
So I just don't want to eliminatethat thought as you're trying to navigate trades
(48:57):
and negotiate trades to try to makethis offense better. Yeah, and in
case of emergency break glass glass Brashcan be a starter pitcher. I completely
agree with you. I think that'sthat's where it comes into play. Yeah,
all right, that'll do it forus today. Thank you for joining
us. We appreciate it. Ihope you had a great holiday out there.
We'll get back to doing this ona weekly basis. For anders Hurst,
(49:19):
my name is Chuck Powell. Makesure you listen Chucking Buck in the
Morning's Monday through Friday from six toten Andrews. Anything you'd like to plug,
not much, I mean, justlisten to this podcast Talking Nerves is
posting all these episodes, you know, and then listen to the station six
am to seven pm every single weekday. Just got we got all your coverage
(49:40):
leading up to national championship and thenespecially after that as well for the UW.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, bigub week. And here's what I'm
really worried about it. I'll closewith this, Yeah, Anders, Yeah,
the Kaalin de Boor has done suchan amazing job that he's going to
sign with the Dodgers. I don'teven want to comment on that. That's
(50:02):
what I'm worried about. You know, how they work it, they'll just
kick his salary down the road andyou know, who knows what else.
All Right, we'll talk to younext week. Thanks for listening to Stove
Stove. What a kind of nameis that hot? So take them all
your God, so take them allyou whoa happy twenty twenty four. Welcome
(00:24):
to another edition of Stove. It'sbeen a couple of weeks. We respected
the holiday. Yeah, but nowwe are back and by the way,
less than two months away from springtraining, pitchers and catchers reporting. Shall
go Andrews Hurst and I need toget back on this horse. Yeah,
give you another episode of Stove.There's actually been a Mariner signing since last
(00:47):
we've done an episode. But beyondthat, ice Cold Market, ice ice
baby Anders. Yeah. I mean, this is one of the few times
that I disagree with Ellie. Itis not hot in here right now.
It is just not The stove iscold. It is very cold. Besides
the Mariners. Honestly, that's beenone of the bigger signings in the last
month or so. Stone Cold SteveMarket. That's what's going on right now.
(01:12):
There is nothing happening out there.Yeah, No, it's it's pretty
crazy. Like you know, youand I were just talking about like right
before we went on the air,and it's like, is something going to
happen? It feels like something kindof has to at this point, so
we're just kind of waiting for thatand refreshing seeing what's gonna go down and
if any dominoes are gonna fall overthe holiday break, and nothing really kind
(01:33):
of went down besides on Christmas Eve. Then the Mariners decided to throw out
that. Yeah, just like Idon't know if you call it a news
dump really because it's a good signing. I like it. But Mitch Garver,
former Texas Ranger and Minnesota Twin.Ye, I don't know where he
was before that. I don't thinkit's it okay, okay, but he's
at thirty one home runs in aninjury season a few years ago in Minnesota
(01:57):
Twins. Yeah, and he wasa big part of their team last year
that the World Series winning Texas Rangers. I think this is a great piece
for the Mariners, to be honest, someone who can play catcher when if
you need to give Calid day off. But I think a plug and play
d H almost every single day,someone with power who gets on base,
(02:20):
A veteran and at a good ata good price too. So I was
I was pretty happy with the signing. Uh and uh, you know,
I it's just kind of came downinto weird time as we were preparing for
the holidays and everything, and atChristmas Eve, Oh, Mariners signed Bitch
Garver. So what were your initialreactions to, you know, the Mariners
having the first big splash for themin the off season for twenty twenty.
(02:40):
I'm a little surprised you. Asfar as great, I don't know.
I don't go as far as feelinglike it was a great sign. Yeah,
but I like it. I'm okaywith it. There are certainly holes
to this player, and then thereare certainly positives. And the number one
positive is this guy can hit.Yeah. Now I know, you know,
(03:00):
you can call up his Baseball referencepage and you can see, you
know, seasons where he's played,and then he doesn't play right. And
even in those seasons there are strange, strange things about him. Sometimes he
hits for average, sometimes he doesn'tat all. Ye last year, for
example, in case people are wondering, as he's a platoon kind of guy,
(03:24):
no, all nineteen of his homeruns came against right handers, so
he didn't hit a single home runagainst the lefty, even though he played
against nearly every lefty that the Rangersfaced, and yet he hit three seventy
against hit three seventy against lefties lastyear, So he's really kind of an
odd player to kind of analyze.But my first initial reaction is, I
(03:52):
know Mitch Garver can hit. Yeah, if he can stay healthy, he
can hit, and he does alot of the things that this organization he
loves adores, and so when Jerrysays this is somebody that we've had on
our radar this entire offseason, Ibelieve him. Yeah, And I think
that negotiation went on for a longtime and they get him at a rate
(04:14):
which two years, twenty four milliondollars. It seems high for Mitch Garver,
but by the way the market isgoing right now, it seems like
it falls actually a little low ofa price. So he can hit,
and if you can keep him healthy, he can He could be a four
hitter yeah for you. At worsta five hit middle lineup guy for sure.
(04:34):
And let me backtrack a little biton the great comment on the signing.
I think in the right context,this is a great signing if you
supplement the actual needs of this teamobviously outfield, a little bit of infield
as well, and then this islike one of those extra pieces This is
where this signing is perfect for theMariners. It's like an extra piece that
(04:56):
you can add into that lineup.But as it is right now, obviously
you take the whole market as well, which is nothing's really happened besides that
recently. I think you're right.It's this can't be the only thing,
is what you're saying. Oh,sure, yeah, they need more.
But I like the the idea ofhaving him on the Marriers next year.
I'll put it that way, mmhmm. And to your point, I
(05:19):
think it's mostly a d H buthe can catch. Yeah, And I
know people hated three catchers on aroster last year. Theoretically I like that
ye catch as long as one ofthem has the versatility to play another position
and is in everyday bat right.So I mean Cooper Hummel did not satisfy
(05:44):
that a year ago. But theidea that you would have had Tom that
that the idea that you can putCal, keep Cal in the lineup every
day because you can put garberbine thepot, put Zavala behind the plate,
and so to have Garver in thelineup most days and have Raleigh in the
(06:08):
lineup nearly every day and now you'vegot two guys that can give him a
break behind the plate, because that'sthat's that's where the wear and tear is
on a catcher. So the theyou can't do that. If you only
have two catchers, then cal Rawleyhas to take every fifth day off hit
(06:28):
pretty much. So, I meanwe saw that last year. Even when
he was hot, they had totry to find ways to give him time
off. And even when he wasrefusing to take time off, they're like,
Cal, you've got to take timeoff. We can't do that.
We want you for the long haul. So when you have three, three
capable catchers, and Garver's not agood defensive catcher, but he he'll throw
(06:49):
the equipment on, he'll call agame and he's not going to kill you.
It's not like you're putting you know, he's no Luis Torrens, right,
but even more egregious. It's notlike it's Colton Wong. Hey,
Colton, have you ever caught beforeyou're throwing some weirdo behind the plate.
You know what he's doing. Tohave three guys that can catch, I
(07:12):
think really benefits the idea that Cow'sin the lineup every day. And obviously
we're gonna need bats totally. Solet's put it in the context of the
rest of the market right now,because we were kind of just talking about
what else has happened, and that'sbeen kind of it. So where do
you see the Mariners kind of goingfrom here? You know, I was
(07:39):
looking at the free agent tracker.Literally nothing else besides that of any note
has happened, and I don't thinkany trades have really happened either, and
so it's like it's weird sale trade. Yeah for Grissom, which I thought
that was really clever trade from bothI was gonna say, good for both
sides. Yeah, Braves needed somepitching and you know Red Sox could use
(08:00):
a decent you know, prospect Slashalready ready a major league player in that
department. So yeah, no,I think there's there's trades to be had
all the way around in that departmentwhere it would help both teams and including
the Mariners. So yeah, Ijust I think it's kind of weird how
things are going down at this point. But I mean, anything else on
(08:22):
Garver before we kind of move onto the rest of the market, I
feel like that's basically kind of itat this point. I think there is
one. I think there's one otherthing to mention about him, and that
is, I mean, he's inhis thirties, okay, and had some
injury history as well. The injuryhistory for whatever reason, and there are
Mitch Haniger, was this right?Every other year a guy goes down,
(08:46):
the guy goes down, and soI don't know why Mitch Garver's done that.
It's kind of wishful thinking to thinkthat a Tiger is going to change
his stripes now that he's in histhirties. Yeah, and if it is
the year for the down year,then that means he's doing injury this year,
and then next year he'll perform reallywell. You know. I guess
(09:09):
the saving grace and all of thatis you're signing him to be primarily a
DH. You're gonna catch every oncein a while, still have two other
catchers on the roster, maybe mixingsome knee bins on the side. But
if you can keep him in aDH roll and keep him healthy, then
(09:31):
I think the guy's going to hit. I mean, even last year watching
the Rangers in the playoffs, everytime that I mean, he always had
good at bats, definitely, andwhen he hit the ball. He didn't
even have to square it up,and it's like, did he really hit
that ball that far? I thoughthe I thought he just popped that up.
He's got that kind of sneaky power, big guy with a true clue
(09:52):
at the plate, very good onbase percentage. It's just a matter of
keeping him healthy. I think thethe best way to keep him healthy is
to d h him almost all thetime. I think he could even play
first base and give Tie a dayoff on occasion, definitely. And then,
like I said, with the threecatcher rotation, you're going to keep
Zavalla on the roster who you gotin the Geno trade, and he's going
(10:16):
to be your primary backup. ButGarber can play the position and I think
should every once in a while.Yeah, and now you mentioned that,
you know, watching the World Seriespretty closely last year, he was one
of those players that I didn't knowa ton about going into it. Like
I knew most of the Rangers lineup, and obviously a lot of the Diamondbacks
(10:37):
were new, but you kind ofgot to know him by their run a
little bit. But he was oneof those that, like, WHOA,
this guy is a much better playerthan like his reputation shows, at least
from the hitting perspective of the ofthe world, which is why he's a
primarily DH for them as well.So I'm interested to see how he does.
I don't know if it's a hewas in the Rangers ballpark situation,
which is one of the reasons whyhis stats took a pretty big jump front.
(11:01):
That's not the hitters park that heused to be, right, new
the new building is a little tougherto I mean, they're they have some
of the deepest fences in the sport. Yeah, it's not the bandbox that
it was before. Okay, gotcha? Okay, So yeah, I then
that's pretty intriguing to see, youknow, what he might bring. I
don't know what his you know,personality is like obviously, I don't know
(11:22):
him personally. I don't know ifhe's a big leadership guy since he's kind
of been around. Uh, thisorganization doesn't value that anyway. Yeah,
good point. So yeah, theyprobably weren't even thinking about that, Okay,
Okay, So, uh, youknow anything else? No, I
think that's good. Okay, Look, and yeah, there's you're right though,
I mean, we haven't We've gotan ice cold market right now.
(11:45):
And so if you're thinking about what'snext, I mean, I would say
this about the ice cold market,there's good news bad news. Bad news
is it's boring. Yeah, andand we we want action, and you
know, think about what we're doing. It's hot stove, right We're sitting
there refreshing baseball trade rumors every sixteenseconds at least I do. And I
(12:05):
just had to stop doing it.I just I mean, I had to
just step away for I feel leastprepared for this stove than anyone what we've
done totally because over the holidays,you know, I don't even have work
to distract me. I'm just off. I've just got time off. I
didn't go and see my family,so I didn't even have annoying family to
distract me. It was just isthere ever going to be a move?
(12:26):
I'm even sitting here on Christmas Daylike expecting there to be some big transaction
on the holiest of holies, andyou just had to I just had to
stop. And so it's been boring. The good news though about the ice
cold market is that it's cold foreveryone. Yeah. So the last time
we did a podcast, everything thatwe discussed as a possibility for the Mariners
(12:50):
is pretty much still there. I'msure a couple of things have kind of
you know, been exhausted, buteverything there to put together a highly productive
offseason is still there. Right.So if you're sitting there as a Mariner
fan, like, why won't wemake any moves? No one else is
making move, no one else's Meganmoves, and every fan base not called
(13:13):
the Dodgers is angry and wondering why. I'll give you an example. Do
you know the Mariners have spent thefifteenth most money this offseason just from Mitch
Garver, basically just from Mitch carbThat's crazy. So they're in the middle
of the pack. They're in themiddle of the pack, just under the
fifty four percent. The show he'slooking for. There are four franchises that
(13:33):
haven't spent a dollar. Yeah,and two of those franchise one of them's
the Yankees, so they did addSodo. Yeah. Two of those franchises
hasn't done anything, literally, notrades, nothing, nothing to this point
in the off season. So thatjust shows you how cold the market is.
Yeah, that's that's pretty crazy.I guess one other thing that happened
(13:54):
since we now that I remember it, since we talked obviously we talked about
a tawny But Yamamono did go tothe Dodgers. Yes, he joined his
Japanese teammate, an even thing.You want to update on him? What
have you heard about how good he'sgoing to be? You know, do
you expect the dog Like we talkeda little bit about this last episode.
Now that the Dodgers are kind offorming the super team, like, what
(14:16):
what does Yamamoto do to those chances? Does it severely increase it because they
had maybe a hole in the pitchingdepartment or is it just kind of all
right? They're slightly improving, butthey're still like have to go through the
gauntlet of the baseball season. Well, I mean, I think I did
mention this on a previous podcast.I mean, the Dodgers are so far
and away going to be the favorite, yeah, in the World Series,
(14:39):
but I think that they have beeneach of No, I wouldn't say last
night, not going into last year, but I would say more often than
not over the last five to sevenyears, they've been the favorite. Agree,
And they've only won one world titleand that was the asterisk twenty twenty
year. Yeah, so I'm stillgoing to say that the field. I'm
(15:00):
going to take the field to winthe World Series over any I don't,
I don't. I don't care ifthey add three more, they bring back
Bellinger and add you know, BabeRuth praised him from the dead. I'm
still going to take the field.That's just the way that the sport works.
But it is. Yeah, I'mamoto I'm going to expect him to
(15:24):
be one of the best ten,maybe best five pitchers in the sport.
Wow, Like right off the bat, I think that's how good a player
that they they got. And nowthey've added two of them and they've kicked
all those finances down the road,which every day that passes Anders feels slimy
to me. I mean, Iget it, it's within the rules,
and you're not going to get awaywith that unless you have a player willing
(15:48):
to be a participant in that.So, I mean, but there's just
nobody else in the sport can kickone hundred million dollars at payroll ten years
into their future without even blinking aneye, right, and that's what the
Dodgers have done. So it feelsfeels slimy, but it's not. And
(16:10):
every other franchise would have loved tohave the same situation. But they've picked
up two absolute gems to an alreadyloaded team. Yeah, I'm interested to
see how that's going to affect themdown the road on if like, like
we kind of mentioned with Doughtani,if the next owner is going to have
to pick that up and just avery ramped up version of the Rams rebuild
(16:33):
where they went all in for acouple of years in the NFL and now
they're kind of even though they're stilldecent again this year, they're having to
rebuild the roster while they're doing that, but even more so to the point
where it's like you have one hundredmillion that you're of players that aren't even
on your team anymore. So's it'llbe interesting to see how that goes ten
years down the road, because Ihave never seen something like this in the
sports before. I am an either, and nobody in baseball has, and
(16:56):
I think baseball's mystified by it.Yeah, And it's as if the Dodgers
know something that we don't, likethe television deals going to change, or
the owner's like, I'm not evengoing to be alive in ten years,
so what does it matter. It'slike the people that just keep racking up
debt saying I'm going to die anyway, so might as well. Yeah,
and then there might be something tothat. Yeah, I want the best
(17:17):
team possible for the next ten years, and then I'm gonna either die or
be out of the sport. Idon't care after that. Yeah, so
why not spend somebody else's money.I would think I mentioned this before,
but Baseball made did not crack downon this kind of activity because they didn't
think they had to. Yeah,and I told you this in the past.
(17:41):
It's like it's like our gun laws. Ye, like when they first
put the right to bear arms secondYeah, yeah, nobody was anticipating that
you'd be able to fire off twohundred rounds in the three seconds. You
know, there would be ammunition ofthat power and capabilities. So yes,
Baseball allowed these teams like the Dodgersto push money into the future. They
(18:07):
didn't expect anything like this. Butnow that somebody has abused it, they've
found this little clause, this littlewrinkle, and they've abused something. I
think they probably will step in,yeah and say you can't do this anymore.
We're gonna limit how much money youcan put on the books beyond ten
years. Maybe you eliminate any moneythat you can put on the books behind
(18:30):
ten years. And if you havea problem with it, blame the Dodgers,
because I mean I get it,they stayed within the rules, but
it feels feels wrong, and Ithink it's wrong to every other organization out
there. And I hope there aren'tcopycats, but they're probably are going to
do yeah. I mean, especiallynow they've seen that this is like,
oh, you can actually do this, So yeah, I mean, what's
gonna stop Cohen from doing? God, I don't know. That's something I
(18:53):
don't even think about. He's alreadyspending a ton of money, so why
don't just throw it all down theroad to get some more in there.
I think they're also blame for thecold market. Yeah, I mean think
about it. Every agent, everyplayer out there was like, well,
we know you've got money, BlueJayson, Yeah you just offered this much.
Yeah, we know you've got money. Cubs they're one of the four
teams hadn't spent a dollar. Yeah, the Cubs, that's crazy. They
(19:15):
were in on Otani. Yeah,so we know you've got money, and
so now all of these other freeagents are, well, we know you've
got it, you're holding out onus, So we'll wait. Yeah,
wait, we'll wait. We'll wait. And I don't think the money is
out there for them. I thinkthat Otani and Yama Moto were that special,
(19:36):
Okay, that unique, And anybodythat thinks they're getting anywhere close to
what those two guys received, they'regetting bad information from their agent. Yeah.
So Andrews, I'd say, youknow, get a parka because I
think it's going to remain cold fora long time. We had an off
season a couple of years ago whereMachado and Harper both went into spring training.
(20:00):
I think we're going to see alot of that this year. Is
there any situation where you see oneof the bigger name free agents and I
mean even name like specifically who,but where you see them don't sign before
the start of the season. Icould see that. Yeah, I could
see that happening, you know,and it's it's going to be a Boris
agent or a Boris client because theyjust want the most money. Yeah,
(20:21):
and he's gonna hold out and holdout and hold out he's famous for it.
Yeah, Hosmer held out with himinto spring training and he got the
deal that he wanted. So,I mean, I think that that's why
we've got this cold market right now, and as baseball fans, we don't
like it. I'd really like tosee them put together an off season trading
(20:41):
deadline right and freeze all moves,yeah, after a certain point, so
we can create that frenzy that theNFL gets to take advantage of, the
NBA to agree, gets to takeadvantage of, even though they have so
many contract laws that hardly anybody evenslips through the nets to become a free
agent in the NBA. But theNBA free agency frenzy is just an amazing
(21:03):
three days. Oh it is footballfans, and we just aren't used to
be the Winter Meetings. But clearlythat's not going to ever be the same
unless baseball adopts some sort of wrinkleto their off season. Yeah, it's
weird because when we talked kind ofgoing into the off season, it was
like, Okay, well I'll waitfor a Tawny and then once that happens,
everyone will start signing. Because hewas the first down out of fall
(21:26):
and that just hasn't really happened thatthis year. So it's like, I
don't know if they his contract exceededa lot of expectations and a lot of
players are now expecting more than theyoriginally were, or what else is going
on. I don't know what itis, but it just seems like there's
stakes. Yeah, it does forpeople like us who talk about the off
season. Yeah, there's nothing toreally talk about right now. Yeah,
(21:48):
I'm done refreshing. I'm just I'llcheck every once in a while during the
course of the day, but I'mnot going to be a slave to it
anymore. Before we get to therumors on what the Mariners have been linked
to recently, let's let's take alook at you know, what you at
this point think is a realistic thingfor them to do. For now,
(22:10):
let's just start with free agents.If you see any more free agent signings
for the Mariners, we just spentlike we obviously with our money situation we
talked about on previous episodes, wehad about thirty million to play with.
We used twelve of it on MitchGarver. Where do you see the other
supposed eighteen million going? I reallydon't see it and this is the good
news about the free agent market beingfrozen. I don't think we're I don't
(22:36):
even think we bought any ice skates. Okay. I don't think we're going
to be playing on that pond atall. Okay, maybe a couple of
little minor things towards the end,relief pictures, some process. But I
don't expect them, not just tonot be a big player, yeah,
but based off of all the stuffthat we've unfortunately had to hear about the
organization this offseason, I don't thinkthey're going to be a player at all.
(22:57):
Okay, I think they're waiting.I think they are waiting for some
of that money to come off andso that they can you know, right
now, even the teams that aretalking about trading, they're waiting for some
of those players to come off sothat it increases the value for their their
pieces. Because as soon as Bellingercomes off, then that's that's more of
(23:21):
a desperation for the teams that needsomething. They didn't get it right right,
and so I think they're they're sortof waiting for that and until you
know, they're ready to sell,because I think the Mariners are in buy
mode as trade partners. But they'renot going to sell until the market comes,
you know, favors them a littlebit more. And for that to
(23:41):
happen, you've got to get freehitters off of the market. So I
don't think we're we are, froma free agent standpoint, going to be
players, but trade I just can'timagine that we're not going to be,
and very aggressively. So let's justthrow this scenario out there for you.
If you had two more additions tothe team, what positions would you want
(24:06):
them to be at? Have toget an outfielder, right, I mean
we only have Julio right now.Yeah, right, yeah, No,
it's true, we do. Imean as a gamer, you can get
by with him. Dylan Mark canplay outfield. Well, he can play
outfield, doesn't mean he's good atdon't want him to can Zone. I
(24:27):
mean I did read something recently aboutcan Zone that I think they like him,
man, Yeah, that people thinkthat there is something to this guy.
I didn't see it last I thoughthe was a terrible defender, even
though he made one spectacular a coupleof spectacular plays, and then the other
time he looked like Bam beyond theice. But I mean, I didn't
(24:48):
see it. There are those thatdo so, but I mean, I
think you got to get two outfields. Yeah, you certainly have to have
one, at least one. Yeah, and even Scott has yelled that from
the mountaintop. We got to haveat least one. And then I don't
know about you, but I'm justnot satisfied with the idea of Rojas at
(25:11):
second, yeah, and Uryus atthird. Yeah. If they're teaming together
and playing second or third, Idon't care. They can they can both
play either position. Yeah, okay, all right, I'll play ball with
you. I mean, I don'tlove it, but okay, you seem
to like it. Yeah, it'syour team. Let's see if you've got
something here, so you know,fresh start both of them. Put them
(25:34):
at third base, let them platoonthird base, or let them platoon second
base. But there is no wayon earth I want to see them both
in the lineup at the opening day. Yeah, all right, let's play
doomsday scenario. Now, where doyou think this team talent wise ranks.
Obviously you can still outperform your expectations, as we've seen them do before.
(25:56):
But if this is their roster rightnow, the what the Mariners have basically
with adding Mitch Garver and Ureus whilegetting rid of Gino Kellennick Marco. I
guess you could throw into there fromthe main pieces of the big league roster,
where do you think this team fallsa in relation to last year and
be in relation of the rest ofthe league. Well, right now,
(26:18):
they're not as good a team asthey were to finish last season, and
they missed the playoffs. But Ialso think they underachieved by missing the playoffs.
Here's the thing, and this iswhat a Mariner fan and I know
I'll disgruntled and angry everybody is,but you still have arguably the best starting
(26:38):
rotation in the sport. Yeah,I agree, you have not only a
good nucleus for a bullpen. Yeah, but if as much as you want
to bash Jerry, he is provenin the area of finding arms. And
then Pete Woodworth and the organization developingrelief pitching talent. I mean last year
(27:03):
was justin topa. Yeah, whata fine he was. I mean,
Seawald was one of those type ofguys. Swanson was one of those type
of guys. So he has aneye for who's going to work out of
the bullpen and whatever system that theyhave in place. And I don't know
who gets the line's share of creditfor that. They know how to develop
relief pitching. So when you havearguably the best starting rotation and arguably the
(27:27):
best consistent bullpen, yeah, yougot a puncher's chance at anything. Absolutely,
So that puts you, you know, right on the verge of the
playoffs. And that's without adding anythingelse because your pitching is so damn good.
And by the way, I thinkKirby's going to get better totally he
is. I think Gilbert is goingto take a step up. Well,
(27:48):
he could take a step forward.He was going to take a step You
get ready for half a year,which you didn't this year. Hopefully he
doesn't get injured again. But Ithink he was going to have a good
year last year. Agree, Ithink maybe I'm drinking the kool aid.
No, I thought he was instore for a great year. I'm with
you, And I think people havecomplained a little bit too much on the
Robbie Ray performance because even twenty twentytwo, like he didn't have his cy
(28:11):
young year, but he was agood pitcher all the innings all year.
It was a leader which he neverwas in his career. Scott Servis loves
him, yes, and he's justhe's a guy. I think this is
something as well, having a leftyin your rotation, especially in a three
or four game series, when youknow hitters are so used to facing from
(28:32):
one side of the plate, youthrow something different at him and they have
to use a different lineup if they'rea platoon team or whatever. It changes
a lot of things and it's helpful. So I think there's a lot to
that. He throws a lot ofstrikeouts. He probably hits a little too,
gets get hit for too many homeruns, but he's an innings eater
and a guy in the clubhouse thatyou like. I'm with you. I
would have I thought he was goingto have a great year last year.
(28:53):
And kind of going into that,let's talk a little bit about the outside
perspective of the Mariner's rotation, becauseI've seen some like lists on like,
oh, top five rotations in baseball, and I've rarely seen the Mariners on
those lists, which is like,and I'm not one to pump the tires
of my hometown baseball team because I'mas critical as anyone is about them,
(29:18):
but I'm with you. Yeah,really, But I honestly think that we
have one of, if not thebest pitching rotations in baseball. And I'm
trying to think, just between youand I, which which team is even
close at this point to them interms of a starting rotation. Oh,
who would you take? I mean, well, I put ours against just
(29:42):
about anybody out there. I wouldtoo, and I've seen the same list,
and I don't understand how they're nottop That's what I'm saying. Why.
I mean, maybe there are acouple of arguments to be made for
other teams being number one, Iguess, but certainly the Mariners are top
five. I see a lot ofpeople saying that we don't have a true
ace. I don't see how youdon't. Yeah, that's what I'm saying,
(30:06):
Kerb. Like I said, Kirby'sgonna take a step forward, and
he's not far off of ACE material. What was he a four or five
war pitcher last year? That's crazy. Yeah, let's say trying to remember
who they might have even put inthere. I guess you could say the
Dodgers now with Yamamoto and but theDodgers were crippling down the stretch last year.
(30:26):
I mean they're they're throwing rookies outthere. I mean, that's count
on Tony Gonsolin jump bound. Imean, you know, uh Miller and
I love Shean as a talent forthe Dodgers, but again, that's a
guy that hasn't played a full seasonof Major League baseball. Now there's Bobby
(30:47):
Miller. They don't have Ureeus anymoreand never will again. Right. Uh
so yeah, they've added Yama Motto, they don't have Kershaw anymore. Yep.
So we have a better starting rotationthan Dodgers. Alright, so I'll
start there. Yeah, yeah,I agree with that. Did I see
something? Who was the one whogot glass? Now? Oh that was
(31:08):
the Dodge Okay, so he's nowa part of that. So glads now
and Yama Motto and Bobby Miller.I guess I would assume Deeler if he
comes back healthy. Oh yeah,so I'm going kind of going off the
top of my head. Yeah,no on this particular question, but I
mean, yeah, they're going tohave a good rotation, there's no question
about it. Yeah, But Idon't see how anybody couldn't put this group
(31:32):
in their top five heading into theyear. And I think there's an argument
to be made for it being thebest starting completely agree, And I think
that's what's made the Astros so successfulthe past couple of years is because they've
had that starting pitching, and thatwas one of the reasons I think they
took a step back this past yearis because they didn't have the dominant starting
pitching that they had the last fiveyears six years. So yeah, I'm
(31:52):
with you. I think Maria's probablyhave the best you call me a homer,
probably have the best starting pitching inbaseball. You could throw out full
pitching staff as well because of anabove average two good good bullpen, So
yeah, you could. You couldput this pitching staff against any team in
the league and you just need averagehitting at that point. But that's one
(32:14):
of the reasons why it's frustrating thatyou have it all your last year.
If you can be a top tenoffense, yeah, with this pitching staff,
you've got a shot. You're goingto be in the playoffs. Yeah,
and you've got a shot at winningthe whole world's whole thing. And
they were creeping towards the end ofthe year of being a top ten offense
and then they fell apart right thereat the end of the season, but
(32:34):
they were there. They were aboutready to beat that exact mold. It
would have gotten them into the postseasonhad they stayed on that trajectory, not
stayed as hot as they were inAugust. But if had they stayed on
the trajectory of climbing toward a topten offense in baseball, they would have
been in the playoffs. And I'mtelling you they would have been awfully dangerous.
Okay, that's encouraging to think about. But we also have gotten rid
(32:59):
of some of those offensive pieces,so we need to resupplement that with some
other stuff. So there have beensome rumors around the Mariners recently related Yeah,
which is weird to me, Like, is Jerry just obsessed with getting
more pictures, Like, let's getsome more pictures and more pictures. I
think they're terrified of having this pitchingand then trading away too much of it
(33:27):
and then oh man, I reallymiss all of that pitching. Yeah you
had. I think that there's they'reoperating out of fear, and I don't
think that that's the way that youcan be. I mean, you did
all this work to get in thischampionship window, and now you guys are
not doing the things it takes topush you over the top. So even
Hollander mentioned it in the famous theinfamous conference, talking about like you have
(33:52):
good pitching until you don't. AndI okay, man, But the only
thing that I can think of isbecause they're so scared of losing their depth,
they're starting pitching depth that if theygo out and entertain like a cheap
free agent like James Paxton or thisDylan cease rumor that has popped up,
(34:15):
the idea is, okay, wellhe got cease, now, now he
can trade Wu. You already youcan trade Wu right now. I don't
want you to. I like Wu, but if you get some pieces that
help you on the offensive end,I have to. You don't have a
choice, and it's Wu or Miller. Now, if you get cease,
you can then go Wu and Millerat that stage, or Wu and Hancock,
(34:39):
or you know. So, Ithink they're just this is something that
has happened before major League Baseball history, that these general managers fall in love
with their guys so much yea,that they get paralysis from it and they
won't move anybody. No great probablypicked these guys. You gotta have some
(35:02):
killer moves. They need finishing moves. They needed them last year and didn't
make them, and look what happened. You missed the playoffs and the next
thing you know, you're spouting offabout fifty four percent. So this year
you have a chance, even thoughthe organization has told you we got to
peel back. You've gotten rid ofthe money. Yeah, all right,
we don't have Gino anymore, wedon't have Tao anymore. You've gotten rid
(35:25):
of the money. Now you've gotto go add pieces and you're not going
to spend in free agency, soyou've got to do it through trade.
And there are bats out there.They're still out there. The Twins still
have their surplus, the Race stillhave their surplus, and they're both looking
for pitching, and you have pitching. You've got to move one of your
top pitchers. So do you thinkit's more Gilbert and Kirby Now I'm talking
(35:47):
about wou Miller or Hancock or eventwo of them. Yeah, I agree.
Do you think it's more of whentalking about their fear to get rid
of these guys, do you thinkit's more of they're afraid that they're going
to go and be dominant in someother organization, like kind of thinking about
it from an external perspective, ordo you think that getting rid of them
will get will obviously shorten our depthin the starting pitching department, and internally
(36:14):
the team will not perform as wellbecause maybe you're not as dominant in that
aspect as you were in previous years. I think it's the latter. I
don't think it's the fear of wehad it, we let some of it
go, and now look at itnow Luis Castillo has an injury and is
(36:35):
out for a month. Yeah,and now we're short on pitching. Damn
it. I knew he shouldn't havegot rid of pitching. Yeah. I
think that's that's their issue. Ireally do believe before the officer, they
know they have to have an outfielder. Yeah, and they know they're not
they do. They know, andthey're not going to spend it, spend
it through free agency to get one. They're going to trade one of them.
(36:55):
And and probably what's happening is thereand you know they're negotiating, they're
trying to maximize the deal. Ithink they know they have to trade one,
so if they're kicking the tires onpitchers, it's probably just to give
them some insurance to feel better aboutmoving guys you know that that they value
and to thin out that pitching.You just can't operate if you're a general
(37:20):
manager who operates under the principle ofnot believing in your own evaluations and you
don't make trades out of fear thatyou might get beat on a trade.
You just see, I'm even oneof those guys anders like I don't understand
the fear of trading within your division. If you think you're better at it
than the other GM, I wantto trade it, make it, Yeah,
(37:44):
because I think I'm going to beatyou on every trade that we make.
And and not only do I strengthenmy team against you, I can
also weaken you. Yeah, that'sto me. I want to trade in
the division. So any general managerthat's not trading out of fear, what
if Brian Woo ends up being thenext thirty game winner, you already have
(38:09):
to give them. Yeah, likechill, Yeah, you can't operate that
way. You have surplus pitching andyou have a dearth of offense. You
have to trade the pitching for theoffense. And now it's your job as
a general manager, as a president, whoever's pulling the trigger on that deal,
to get the deal that makes thisteam better and makes it a championship
(38:34):
contender. And there has to bean the only way you can do it.
No, yeah, and there hasto be some sort of like desire
for balance. You know, youcan't like very rarely do you see teams
in any sport, but especially baseball, that have, you know, such
a good one side of the balland then a average to below average other
(38:54):
side of the ball and have successand win the World Series. Usually there's
at least some sort of balance.You could argue the Royals of twenty fifteen
was like the one outlier, butevery other team that I'm thinking about,
at least in recent ten years orso, was at least above average in
(39:14):
both sides. And right now theMariners offensively, it's hard to argue that
they are, especially with losing thosepieces they're not. So it's just you
can't be so obsessed with winning oneway, especially one way that we get
it. Pitching wins in the postseason. But you have to get to the
postseason first, and you know whatactually gets you to the postseason. A
(39:34):
lot of the offensive teams that weresuccessful last year ended up going to the
postseason. So I think offense actuallyplays more in the regular season and then
pitching plays more in the postseason,at least in recent years. I agree.
No, not, I agree withthat completely, especially the rule changes.
Look at the Baltimore Oriols exactly.Look at the Baltimore ORI's did in
the regular season, Yes, andthen they got in the postseason. They
didn't have the pitching, they didn'thave the horses, and they were out
(39:55):
in the first round. Exactly.No, I agree with that. And
Texas Rangers are a great example.Yeah, they were an offensive team that
got into the playoffs and then they'repitching, which was terrible, especially the
bullpen. They got hot, that'sall they did. That's not a championship
(40:15):
caliber team, and they didn't havethe pitching to win now, but they
did because their bullpen got hot.Just like the Atlanta Braves, with their
worst team they've had in seven years, won the World Series with no Ronald
l'acunya and a patchwork offense and Rosariogot hot, and that bullpen was the
(40:37):
bullpen was untouchable. That entire prostseason. That was not an untouchable bullpen.
Now AJ minder Tyler mattson Will Smith, he's been on the last three World
Series teams. By the way,Jackson, I mean that was that was
not a good bullpen. But theygot hot at the right time and they
wrote it. But the Rangers,they were far more equipped to win in
the regular season than they were inthe postseason. So I agree with that
(40:59):
in assessment entirely. And here's astrange part about yess Anders. If Jerry
knows this, I mean we Buckywas joking with him one time at spring
training and asked, if you couldhave a top fight hitter or a top
fight pitcher, you know that justappeared out of nowhere, right, what
(41:20):
would you rather have? And Buckywanted him to say offense, but he
was saying it almost like jokingly becausehe knows what he's going to say.
He knew he was going to saypitching. And Jerry goes, oh,
that's easy. He goes hit herreally all the way, really yeah,
And Bucky kind of thought he waslike kidding and he goes, oh,
no, it's not even close.What hitter is it? Because maybe just
(41:42):
believe him but I think maybe Ithink maybe the organization and he has just
a better eye for him for pitchingthan they do for hitting. Maybe that's
because he was a pitcher or youyou feel like you organizationally with whatever analytics
they use, I'm not going toget into that can elevate a above average
pitcher into a good slash elite pitcherand then not have that as much as
(42:07):
on the hitting side. You needsomeone who's actually very very talented to come
in here and hit because they can'treally elevate them as much. Well coaching
or whatever. Well, it's weirdbecause they went for a number of years
pitcher in the draft at the topof the draft. You would think that
that says what you value and they'regoing and what you need because you know,
this is not the NFL where wehave a hole in our pass rush.
(42:30):
We have to get a pass rusher. Yeah, this is no you
take you pretty much take the bestplayer available. Yeah. In the MLB
drafty and so to go Kirby andGilbert and Hancock and even last year yah,
yeah, and but but there aresome young players on the horizon that
people are starting to rave about.Montes and we still haven't even seen film
(42:52):
in Celestin Young Cole Young. Imean they do. They probably for the
first time ever. They've got moreexciting hitters, yes, coming up through
the system, and then they dobecause they have recently called up so many.
But they're not gonna contribute this year, yes, And this is a
(43:13):
championship window for this team. Absolutely, And so you know what you got
to do. You know the restrictionsthat were placed on you by ownership,
and I think it's bull crap,but you have restrictions placed on you.
You've done the hard part of carvingaway salary. I still don't understand why
we had to get rid of JaredKellnick for nothing, But you know what
(43:36):
you have to do, and thereare deals that can be had, but
you have to give up a qualityyoung starter in order to get what this
team needs. Because there's enough depthstarting pitching wise, even without wu Miller
or Hancock. We have to geta hitter or two. All right,
give me a quick chuck choice.We got just a couple of minutes here.
(43:59):
I'm gonna throw this out at you. We haven't talked much in this
offseason about Matt Brash, okay,and I I don't know why he he
gets criticized as much as he doesby some people love him. Yeah,
I love him. Yeah, Idon't think he's a closer, but I
well, that's kind of my Chuck'schoice question for you. Is he a
(44:20):
starter? Because he was a starterand then they put him in the bullpen
because they wanted to see him atthe major league level and they didn't think
he was quite ready from a start, but they couldn't deny the two pitches,
the fastball and the slider or sweeperor whatever it is he is.
And then and then the next yearthey were I don't know if they like
(44:45):
punished him for being on the Canadianbaseball team, but they made a really
odd decision like, well, ifyou're going to do that, then you've
got to stay in the bullpen.So they kept him in the bullpen and
used the crap out of him.He's got a rubber arm. Yeah,
I mean, when you're thinking aboutworried about trading away from your starting pitching
(45:05):
depth, even though Anders and Iand most people listening think that that's an
unnecessary worry. Yeah, is MattBrash somebody that could add to this depth
as a starter to make you feelbetter about trading away a young pitcher,
yea, because I and he's youngenough now that he could transition to starting
pitcher. If you do this foranother year, it's probably over. He's
(45:29):
probably a reliever for the rest ofhis career. Yeah, it's tough for
me to really have a two pitchpitcher, which Matt Brash is in the
starting rotation, because over the courseof you know, five six innings,
however long you go, you're gonnaneed more to kind of get. Obviously,
you can develop pitches on his side. We've seen Robbie Raid do it.
(45:50):
We've seen Logan Gilbert do it recently. Obvi've seen Andre's munies do it
from the bullpen. But it justseems like that those are his two dominant
pitches and he's better in smaller incrementsthan it does over a long period of
time. And to be honest,I don't like at this point right now.
Maybe maybe if you make a tradeor two and you get rid of
(46:13):
two guys for a big bat,then you consider it just to have that
depth, But at this point Idon't think you need it. I think
you need him more in the bullpen, and you need that kind of dominant
stuff from him, because we saweven after especially after the Paul Seawall trade,
that you didn't really have that guy. There was Munos and Brash every
single day, and you can't blamethem every single day obviously. So I
(46:36):
think there their usage for both ofthem, especially Matt Brash, I think
right now is more useful in thebullpen. I see what you're thinking though,
because I disagree with that. Yeah, I just think it's so hard
to find. It's so much harderto find starting pitchers. Yeah, it
is than it is to find reliefpitchers, especially this organization, And so
yeah, we found one. Butif he's more valuable as a starter,
(47:00):
and he has the abilities to bea starter, and I think he's got
a bit of a rubber arm,yeah, I agree with that. And
he just doesn't have two pitches.They're ridiculous, yeahous, and he can
make the move ball. I don'tthink he really has a straight change.
I don't think Robbie Ray does either. No, but he developed that two
seamer which kind of goes the otherway, which is helpful. His it's
(47:22):
bugs bunny stuff. Yeah, whenyou have bugs bunny stuff, all you
got to do with that is withit. Yeah, exactly. That's the
other thing I was going to say, is like he's got to learn to
throw strikes more. He can't bewalking as much as he was when he
was a starter and did in thebullpen as well. We know he strikes
out everyone that he faces almost It'sit's pretty nuts. But yeah, if
you if you develop so I thinkthree things need to happen for that to
(47:45):
be a situation. Make a tradeor two to get some offense, and
then you do get rid of wuMiller and or Hancock. Uh, develop
a third pitch at least just tohave something else to throw out, and
then you know, control the strikesin a little bit more than I think
you have a really good starter.I'm just thinking of from this perspective,
(48:06):
and then we'll wrap it up.Yeah, it is, if you know,
if you really are like so worriedabout giving away your pitching depth,
and I don't think they are.I think they're gonna move a seat,
They're going to move a starter fora hitter or two before this offseason comes
to a close. But if you'resitting there like wringing your hands over not
(48:29):
wanting to give away your starting pitchingdepth. You might have another guy here,
and I hope you haven't forgot abouthim as that option, because even
though I love him in the bullpentoo a lot more than most people do,
I think he could be a dominantstarter at the major league level.
So I just don't want to eliminatethat thought as you're trying to navigate trades
(48:57):
and negotiate trades to try to makethis offense better. Yeah, and in
case of emergency break glass glass Brashcan be a starter pitcher. I completely
agree with you. I think that'sthat's where it comes into play. Yeah,
all right, that'll do it forus today. Thank you for joining
us. We appreciate it. Ihope you had a great holiday out there.
We'll get back to doing this ona weekly basis. For anders Hurst,
(49:19):
my name is Chuck Powell. Makesure you listen Chucking Buck in the
Morning's Monday through Friday from six toten Andrews. Anything you'd like to plug,
not much, I mean, justlisten to this podcast Talking Nerves is
posting all these episodes, you know, and then listen to the station six
am to seven pm every single weekday. Just got we got all your coverage
(49:40):
leading up to national championship and thenespecially after that as well for the UW.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, bigub week. And here's what I'm
really worried about it. I'll closewith this, Yeah, Anders, Yeah,
the Kaalin de Boor has done suchan amazing job that he's going to
sign with the Dodgers. I don'teven want to comment on that. That's
(50:02):
what I'm worried about. You know, how they work it, they'll just
kick his salary down the road andyou know, who knows what else.
All Right, we'll talk to younext week. Thanks for listening to Stove
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