Names falling off the board, Bowden reaction, Park Factors.

Anders and Chuck talk big picture Mariners off season as more names fall off the board, who is to blame for this year's off season?  Chuck and Anders also react to the Jim Bowden segment with Softy and Dick about the Mariners off season, also how much of a factor does T Mobile Park play into the lack of activity?

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Stove.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
What a kind of name is that, Well, it's the
name of the hottest podcast taking place right now. It's
very mo Wow. So you're saying the stove's hot. Yeah,
I'm saying it is. Okay, I mean yeah, yeah, And
it's Chuck Powell, it is Anders Hearst. It is our
Stove Mariners off season podcast, and we have another episode

(00:23):
for you. And it's amazing how many different topics we
can generate without zero with just zero activity taking place
this offseason for our baseball Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Usually we're pretty good at kind of finding like little
things to talk about that and there's usually a lot
of news kind of going on. But when your team
has made zero moves and don't tell me.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Donovan Salon is a move, We've made zero.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
We've made zero moves, so not even like bad moves,
like you could talk about zero moves or just in
the net zero, not net negative, not net positive, just
net zero. So oh yeah, I don't know, I don't
even know where to go at this point. But you
got some stuff written down. What do you got on
the slate today?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Well, I mean that just I mean I've been having
some conversations lately and the way that people are trying
to sell it to me positively from inside the house.
What house, the Mariner's house? Okay, okay, is sort of this.

(01:27):
You know we're gonna be pretty good, And my reaction is,
I know you're going to be pretty good. I mean,
I've been talking about how good, how great this foundation
is for years, so yes, you're gonna be pretty good
this year. You're pitching so good you can't help but
be anything but pretty good this year. Is that really

(01:49):
the goal? To be pretty good? Who starts off in
your life? I mean, you're starting your broadcasting career. Do
you tell your wife when she asks you, what are
your goals and ambitions? I'd like to be pretty good
at radio, make a pretty good salary, and then maybe,
you know, maybe my chances are pretty good that I
could be pretty good at.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
This, and then, like if I call her a pretty
good wife, I'm sleeping on the couch.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Right right, Yeah. What did you think of the meal
I slaved over to prepare for you? Pretty good? What
did you think of our love making session last night? Honey?
Pretty good? Pretty good? Knock down. This is professional athletics.

(02:35):
This is the highest form of baseball that the world
has every individual player involved, every individual coach involved, every
individual executive involved, every individual owner involved. No matter what,
if you have a vote, if you have a share
in the boardroom, if you have a say of what

(02:56):
goes on, you better be figured instantly thinking about what
would it take to be great? That is your objective.
You make for a living, and you're living. At the
end of the day, you get a grade WORL. We
don't have that in our in our jobs, not many

(03:18):
people do. You do, so your pursuit of greatness is
judged every single day, and it certainly is judged at
the end of the season, whether you make the postseason
or you don't make the postseason, and then whether you
win a championship or you don't win a championship. If
your goal, even if you're stepping backwards, even if you're

(03:40):
going to do a rebuild, the idea behind rebuild is
to win a championship, to try to get there as
quickly as possible, and so you don't have to sell
me on you know we are pretty good. I know
you're pretty good. It's turning into the problem. The problem
is becoming that pretty good is good enough and it's

(04:03):
not so. Where did the hunger go to win a championship?
Where did the what happened to the goals that were
set at the beginning of this rebuild and at the
moment where it was announced to the world by you
that we're in the championship window and that's the only

(04:24):
thing that will satisfy us. We haven't won a championship.
We've only been pretty good since we made the playoffs.
Two years in a row. Of missing the playoffs because
we were pretty good, it's not good enough. Yeah, and
you have the chance. And this is what Jim Boden
and all the critics, not just local guys or fans

(04:47):
who are angry and its national guys are destroying you
because they see the hard work that went into becoming
pretty good. They recognize you. You have the ability to
be great. And the only thing that's standing in the
way of the Mariners being great is ownership and the

(05:08):
front office. Right now, Yeah, you are the impediment to
being great. So yes, I acknowledge you're gonna be pretty
good even if you don't make a move. You're pitching
that great that you can't help but be pretty good
this year. But I'm also yelling from the top of
the mountain. That's not good enough.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
Well, and I think their argument that you're going to
be pretty good is the main reason. I feel like
if you were bad, people wouldn't be as upset with
this offseason. Right, if you weren't supposed to be in
this championship window, people wouldn't be as upset with this offseason.
But because you are going to be pretty good, you've

(05:52):
done nothing to build on that. You're doing nothing to
capitalize on this core that you've built, this amazing pitching
staff that's making nothing right, nothing in comparison, and eventually.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
It's going to be making something. Yes, So like this
is like the Kansas City Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes rookie
contract is siding let's just be pretty good.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, and then wait, let's see if we can sneak
into the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
I just it's I mean, I've defended them for a while.
There's no defense of this. I said it last week's podcast,
I've said it on Chuck and Buck. It is an
F minus off season. It's not even an F. How
do you get an F minus? Not even in the
grading process. But it's not strong enough to say this

(06:40):
is an F because an f can be you know,
you made bad moves. F minus is you didn't make
any moves. You didn't even try at a time where
and I will say this again. I've said this on
stove before. I'll say it again, this is the most
important off season in the history of Mariners base.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Okay, so let's dive into that concept, because I've mentioned
that you said that to a couple people and they
were not necessarily like blown away, but like kind of
had to like rethink, like, okay, yeah, that kind of
makes sense. So explain why you think this is the
most important offseason in Mariner's history.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Well, number one, you've never been you've never had a
Well I won't say never, because obviously you had a
foundation with Griffy and Johnson and a Rod, and you
should have won championships then. But having getting to this
point and having so much history now without a championship,

(07:41):
and put through your fan base through so many different
attempts at trying to get there, and I really feel
like this latest attempt has been their best attempt in
the franchise's history. Okay, you know they rebuilt in my opinion,
at the right time. No, they were not going anywhere
with that, James Paxton Robinson Cano just got popped. With

(08:04):
Peds Nelson Cruz, as good as he was, they weren't
gonna go to it. They weren't winning a World Series
with that foundation. There was no reason to build off
of that. But so they picked the right time. It
was an uncomfortable time, but it was the right time
to rebuild. And then I felt like they did it
the right way. And then you get to the precipice
of possibly being a championship caliber team, and you don't

(08:27):
go far enough to put yourself over the top two
years in a row and you missed the playoffs. So
you can't have a third season of missing the playoffs
in a championship window. So I think number one, because
of your own good work, you've got to take advantage
of that now. And then number two, I would assume

(08:47):
jobs are on the line. I don't think Jerry Depoto
and Justin Hollander, can you know, exist again with a
eighty eight win season and miss the playoffs by a game.
Considering the monstrous lack of activity that has taken place,
I think this is Seattle Mariners Baseball's best chance to

(09:12):
have prolonged championship success in the history of the organization.
But if you don't do the things it takes to
get over the top, you're going to blow it and
then you may never have this opportunity again. The fans
may turn on you after this, they may not support
anything you try again. Yeah, that's why I think it's

(09:35):
the most important offseason. Yeah, hen I completely agree.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
And your point about jobs being on the line, so
it's not just important for the team, it's important for
these guys that you know have careers on the line too,
Because Jerry didn't have a ton of success in LA either,
So this is you would assume that if it doesn't
work out here, he might not get another opportunity again,
I don't know. And the fact that you know, I

(09:59):
hope his jobs on the line. But the biggest question
that we posed at the beginning of this episode was
is pretty good good enough if he gets another eighty
seven eighty eight win team, this is the playoffs by
one or two games, is that good enough for John
Stanton and the ownership group.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Well, it shouldn't be, right, I mean, but obviously ownership
is not setting their standard high enough exactly, So Ownership's
not and the front office isn't and you know, it
just thinks of I mean, Jerry was very honest that day.
Fifty four percent. He really They figured out a formula

(10:36):
that if they can win fifty four percent of their
games consistently, that will get them in the playoffs more
often than not. If you get into the playoffs more
often than not, you can find yourself because of the
unpredictability of Major League Baseball's postseason, you can find yourself
in the World Series. If you get in the World
Series a couple of times, there's a chance you win one. Yeah,

(10:59):
And it kind of feels like that's what they're banking
on at this point versus what Jim Boden said on
Softy and Dick earlier this week, and that is, when
you put yourself in a position where you're there, you
have to go for it. You have to break the

(11:19):
way that you do things in order to push it
over the top. You got to spend uncomfortably and you
got to maybe make a move that you have to
part with a prospect that you really do like. And man,
I'm so happy that we drafted him and I just
love watching his game flourish.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
I would hate to get rid of him for a
good player and see him do well and some way
somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
I mean, he was a boy and we've turned him
into a man, you know. And if you're going to
operate that way, you're gonna get you're gonna stay stuck
in this fifty to fifty four percent winning percentage. That's
just not the way you operate in professional baseball, especially
when you were a mid to small market club. When

(12:06):
you have the opportunity to win, you have a go
for it. And we've seen lackluster approaches to the trading deadline.
Not last year. I'll give them credit for last year,
give them credit for the Luis Castillo Yere where you
made the playoffs, but we've seen lackluster approaches to that.
We saw a creative way to not add to the
payroll last year that I did think would work. I

(12:27):
thought it would work to put the ball in play more,
which was the missing piece to the team and my estimation,
and they ended up striking out more. But this year
it's nothing. There is no plan. There either is no
plan or every plan they've tried has failed and they've
given up.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Okay, so you mentioned the audio that was on with
Jim Bowden with Softian Dick earlier this week. We'll get
to that in just a second. Now that you mentioned
talking about our off seasons and trading deadlines, I have
an exercise for you. We can maybe do that a
little bit later, but let's hear Let's hear the audio

(13:05):
from Jim Bowden, who is now a He used to
be an executive uh in then majorly in Major League
Baseball for what was it, the White Oh, Cincinnati Reds. Yes,
and now he works for MLB Network and will be
network radio. He does substitutes for Sunday Night Baseball on

(13:25):
ESPN Radio. Uh So he's kind of he's a national
baseball reporter nowadays.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
But not just that. There is somebody that actually has
been a GM right. And then there's the guy that
traded for Junior. Yes, I mean so this this is
somebody that this isn't just Chuck Powell, loud ass talking
head right on radio that I am forced to listen
to in the morning.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
So he has an interesting perspective. Someone who has been
in front offices before, knows how it all operates, has
a good judgment of, you know what what would work,
and now is a national broadcaster, so he has kind
of the pulse on what people around base not just
here in Seattle, but around the whole league are viewing
on this Mariners offseason. So it starts with Sophie's question

(14:07):
to him about how the off season was.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
What do you make of the job the Mariners have
done over the offseason so far to make this team better?

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Jim, I mean, it's disgusting, gross, embarrassing, and it makes
you want to go the toilet and throw up. I mean, look,
here's the thing about the Mariners, and let's let's be honest,
right because I don't think there's a baseball person that
will disagree with this. Their starting rotation one to five
is as good as there is in baseball now. Some
can argue, Dodgers Philly is your Yankees. Okay, that's fine,

(14:36):
I get it. At the very least, it's top four
out of the thirty teams, which means if you get
to October, you have a legitimate shot at running the
table and winning a World Series. Like you have a shot.
You know, the hardest thing to get in baseball today,
The hardest thing to get is a starting an elite
starting rotation. Yeah, right, And what are the teams that

(15:00):
I just mentioned that are with the Mariners of the
best rotation, the Dodgers, the Yankees and the Phillies, three
of the biggest payroll teams in our sport. Right Why
because they can afford to do it. Now, Seattle's not
in that arena because they have so many young starters.
They were able to do it with Logan Gilbert and
George Kirby, et cetera, et cetera, Bryce Miller, Brian Wu

(15:23):
and then of course Castille who they pay. So here's
the thing. When you have that kind of rotation, that's
when as an owner, a GM or a president, that's
when you overspend beyond your budget to try to win.
When you have that window, you don't wait until that
window is closed. Then it's too late, and all of
a sudden, all these starting pitchers are that good. Guess

(15:44):
what happens to them. They end up making thirty a
year or thirty five a year. That's where they're all going,
and then you can't afford them anymore, or then you
have to trade them a year before they make that
kind of money. So the point is, when you have
a chance to win, you can't look at your You
can't go into your county apartment and be told, well,
you're gonna lose ten million or fifteen million or twenty
million if you do this or do that. No, no, no, no no.

(16:06):
This is when you go to the playoffs, you give
a shot to win a World Series, and you build
the baseball back in your city, and then the fans
will understand when you have to break it down. They'll
be okay with it. If you win. They're okay with
star players leaving. Let me give you an example, the
Houston Astros. They said goodbye to George Springer. They still won.

(16:28):
They said goodbye to Carlos Koreya, they still won. They
just said goodbye to Kyle Tucker. They still have a
chance to win. So I guess my point is, go
win now. They'll understand when you break it down, but
you got to spend now.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
I mean, I give Jim Boden all the credit in
the world, and I agree with him. It's nothing that
I haven't said the entire time, and yet I've been
called a poto kiss ass for four years droughout this
entire process. It's pretty much the message that I've delivered.
But instead of saying this offseason, puke, throw toilet, vomit.
I've just said F minus. Yeah, you know, but it's

(17:04):
the same thing. I mean, F minus. Give a straight
A student an F minus and they're probably gonna go
to the bathroom and pute and throw up and vomit
on their sweater and mom spaghetti and all of that stuff.
So I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's just the
way that it operates. And I don't know why it's

(17:24):
not happening. And frankly, they're not poking their head above
ground to explain themselves this offseason, so I don't know.
But it's a total fail. This this particular offseason last
year was a creative reimagining under circumstances that didn't work.

(17:46):
It didn't work, but I thought it was I thought it.
I thought it had a chance to work. Yeah, I
don't know how this off season gives you a chance
to be better. You have three massive holes on You're
starting infield right now on a team that couldn't score
runs last year. Yeah, and that, I mean, what the

(18:06):
F minus?

Speaker 1 (18:08):
What that.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
What the F minus? F minus new tagline? Yeah? I
like it?

Speaker 3 (18:16):
So yeah, I mean, and the other point is that
I like that he made it. He didn't even kind
of make this. But I've noticed lately that it was
somewhat defensible when a lot of teams were operating the
same way. We're starting to see now the teams that
aren't maybe traditional spenders, are doing that because they believe
they're in a window. So you're seeing examples of that

(18:37):
throughout MLB. Arizona Diamondbacks are the like the first team
that I kind of think about when that happens. They
feel like they're in their championship window right now. They
went to a World Series two years ago, they almost
went to the playoffs last year kind of unexpectedly, and
they're like, all right, we feel like we have a
good enough core. Let's go get Corbyn Burns. He's gonna
he's the guy that's gonna shure up our rotation. And

(19:01):
another good example of that is Corbyn Burns. But last
year with the Baltimore Orioles, they feel like they've brought
up this young core. He's going to be the piece
to take us over the top.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Now.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
They had one of the best records of baseball, and
that's all that you're trying to do is have a
good enough record to where you feel like you're set
in the playoffs and then anything could happen in the playoffs. Now,
it didn't work for them in the playoffs, but that's
like you said, you just got to have a good
enough team to where you're perpetually going there year in
and year out and not just barely on the cut

(19:32):
line every single time.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
I want to speak to that, because that was one
of the points that he made. He said, the fans
will forgive you when the time comes that you do
have to sort of rebuild again. You don't have to, right,
I mean, to me, that's where I think Jim Bowden
is wrong. I think organizationally, this team has proven itself
under Jerry and Scott Hunter to be so good at drafting,

(19:56):
so good at development. I mean they start when Jerry
we started, we had the thirtieth ranked farm system in
the sport. Within two years we were one and then
and then that one class is the team we have
right now. And while we are better, while we've been
better and barely missing the playoffs, he went back to

(20:18):
work and has rebuilt the farm system again to arguably
number one. That's something they're very good at. And so
you there's nobody's saying that if you spend and go
for it now, you have to stop drafting and developing,
keep doing what you do well, and wake up and

(20:39):
realize what you have to do differently now in order
to make your team better totally. And you can't guarantee
a championship. But you know what Baltimore guaranteed last year,
well acquired Corbin Burns. We're definitely going to be a
playoff team with this young hitting and we added that
horse to our starting rotation. We're definitely going to be

(21:01):
a playoff team. Then we got to figure out how
to win in the playoffs after that. Well, as Jim
Bowden is saying, when you have pitching as your dominant aspect,
you've got a much better chance in the playoffs of
running the table in the playoffs. Right, So, where's your
Corbin Burns move to add to the offense. It just
they're not making it, so I don't think. I mean,

(21:24):
if you want to throw a fence around your top
four to ten prospects, go ahead and do it if
you love them so much that you just there are
guys that you just feel are untouchable. We do that
in fantasy sports all the time. No, you can't have
that guy. I like him too much. If you want
to throw it around four ten, but you can't throw
it around the entire frickin farm system. And that's what

(21:47):
they're doing right now. So ownership won't let them spend
and they won't trade anybody in their farm system to
get Josh Naylor. Imagine, imagine Josh Naylor at first, Hasan
Kim at third or seven. How much better do you
feel about the team? So much better right now?

Speaker 3 (22:03):
I actually love the has On Kim and we can
get to that because he just signed with the Rays
two years, twenty nine million. I would have taken that
deal instantly, instantly. He's a great baseball player. He is
an elite defender, starting second baseman. He plays every single day.
He's not gonna have great offensive numbers, but the dude
plays ball hard. He runs the base as well. He

(22:23):
kind of woke up the bat. This was kind of
his first year of being like a plus hitter, and.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Two years ago he was an MV. He was the
Padres team MVP on a team with Soto Machado, Boguards,
Tatis Tatis. Hasan Kim was the best player on the
team right here, right, So that tells you everything you
need to know about how good of a player he is.
He's not great, he's not earth changing, but to fill

(22:49):
a hole, he's an everyday player easily easily in every
day play and plays gold globe, third, short or second.
So he gives you that versatility that you can keep
shopping to make the better, yes, which you haven't done
at all. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
And supposedly you had fifteen million to spend two years,
twenty nine million. That's what fourteen and a half million?

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Yeah, I mean there are some arguments against him. I
guess the shoulder surgery. He's not going to be ready
at the start of the season and there and it
might be until May. And I've even heard where aj
Preller was a little shy about resigning because he fears
it's going to be June. The Tampa bay Rays don't
spend money now. They they're the team that got him.

(23:31):
You got outmid by the Tampa bay Rays.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Financial power of the Tampa bay Rays and they're, oh wait,
their stadium is dead.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah. That's like getting OUTMD at a charity event by
Ebenezer screwed. Yeah, it's a good example. You know, and
so you got out bid by Tampa. You've been outspent
by Arizona by a mile ten miles. He's you've been
outspent by the perfect example God. So it's like, I mean,

(24:06):
there's an argument against that deal. Yeah, but if you
just keep talking yourself out of every deal, well that's
not good enough. And now you have nothing to show
for all the nose that you sent out there, and
you haven't improved your team at all offenses. Matter of fact,
you've taken a step back. Yeah, because at this point,
I'll take Rojas and Polonko back seriously, and I don't

(24:29):
want them, which still might happen, by the way, you
never know.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
I don't take ROAs, Polanco and Turner back. Yeah, and
yet we don't have them. We don't have anybody. We
have Donovan Solano to show for this offseason, a thirty
seven year old, right, you know, platoon each can't hit
for power, can't run, can't defend platoon first baseman, short
side platoon first baseman who might be able to pinch

(24:58):
hit for you now and then that's it. As the
most important word in that entire gym Boden tie rade embarrassing.
It's embarrassing. Yeah, it's just embarrassing what you're doing right now. Yeah,
you should be ashamed of yourself. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
And you mentioned like there's an argument against the Hassau
on Kim signing, but at this point in the off season,
right there's not really one because it's that or what
you have now and.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Easy, well right now, and I know you don't like
Pete Alonzo, and I don't take it right now, right now, yes,
right now, if you're Jerry Depoto and you're not marching
down the hallway and saying, this is the money I need.
We need something, We need to add something this offseason.
Everything we've struck out on that we were trying to do. Yeah,
and so at least I've got a guy that's going

(25:47):
to hit thirty home runs minimum play every day at
first base way every day at first base. I got
Raley is my fourth outfielder DH. I'll find playing time
for him, right and so we can live. Maybe I
can piece together something at second base. But I need
the money for Alonso. Give it to me or I'm quitting. Yeah,

(26:07):
I just yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's the
move Boden has waned us to make for three years
now is to get Petere Alonzo.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Well, and we'll get to that here in just a second.
That was the first part of this clip that I had.
The second part is referring to kind of where the
blame lies. Everyone likes to play the blame game on
if they think it's more of an ownership problem, if
they think it's more of a front office problem. I
think at one point it was whether it's ownership, front office,
or coaching. They have since fired their coach, so that's

(26:38):
kind of out the window. So it's now between ownership
and front office. So Dick Fane follows up that whole
tirade from the how the off season was with, you know,
asking about you know, where he believes to Poto lies
in all this.

Speaker 4 (26:54):
So what is the culpability of Jerry to Poto and
how is he viewed amongst his peers. Is he viewed
as incompetent in being able to find one half of
his baseball team and that's the offensive side. Or is
he seen more like a sympathetic figure that like, hey,
dude's hands tied, he can't do anything.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, you know it's the latter. Yeah, everybody understand that
he's in some jail cell in Seattle, handcuffed to his
hands are handcuffed to the chair, his feet are handcuffed
to the jail door, and he's not allowed access to
a phone. I mean, that's what everybody thinks. And the
thing is privately and publicly, and I mean this legitimately.

(27:33):
He takes full responsibility and deflects it from the owner.
He protects the owner to everybody on or off the record,
everything's a baseball decision. Ownership gives into flexibility, but nobody
believes it. Nobody does, and the only way people aren't
going to believe it is if the Mariners go out
and do something. And the thing the sad part to
me is Scott Boris is looking for someone to take

(27:55):
Pete Lonzo from the men. Scott Borce wants somebody to
give him the Cody Bellens your deal at the Cubs
gave him two years ago. He's begging. He would love
to go to Steve Cohen and say you lost the player,
and yet he only has Toronto, who's somewhat playing. He
would love to be able to take Alex bregnant and
get him that long term deal that beats the Astros deal,

(28:15):
but he didn't have it. And can you imagine Seattle
if you hadd Alonzo and Bregman to this group with
Julio and Roeblaze and Rally and the group you have
now with that rotation, I would get to spend October
in Seattle. I would get to eat the salmon and
eat those oysters and have a blast up there. Why
can't I spend October in Seattle just because the owner

(28:36):
doesn't want to spend money with this rotation? Please stop
making me throw.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Up both of them?

Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yeah, God, God forbid June free Agents.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Geez. Yeah, what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Because I definitely have some and I have some other
responses from.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
I would start with you because you kind of hinted
around that you think Jerry doesn't want to spend so
there are, which I thought was absurd, And now I'm
starting to wonder if there's somehow, some perverse truth to
what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
So, yeah, I actually I played that clip. I have
a contact that is a current MLB scout and he
doesn't work for the Mariners, but he obviously is aware
of all of these kind of things going on. I'm
gonna play. I'm gonna read you the exact response to

(29:29):
what he told me on text. Let me pull it
up here just a second.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
No, you had some reporting that you did and some.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, and then so I'm gonna say this one and
then I'm gonna paraphrase one that Ian Furness. He also
has a friend who's an MLB scout, also not for
the Mariners. Okay, so my question was I played that
exact clip to him and he was like, is it
all ownership or does Jerry have any sort of culpability?
He says no, Jerry ran a top five payroll in

(29:59):
LA for five years and never won. Jerry doesn't want
that money. He wants an excuse not to mention he
was gifted a generational talent in LA and a guy
that seems to be on the way to the Hall
of Fame in Seattle, Julio Rodriguez. Well that's debatable, but yeah,
both position players, by the way, and still can't get
it together. Had nothing to do with acquiring either Trout

(30:20):
or Julio, but also can't figure out how to win
with a cheap superstar.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Okay, it is really hard for me to believe that
a general manager in Major League Baseball or president who
really does call the shots, right, wouldn't spend money if
it was given, give it if he had the opportunity.
That is, that's almost on the point of it's impossible
to believe. If it is true, then it still falls

(30:48):
on ownership, because ownership should say, are you kidding me?
I'm getting killed. All of the owners are getting killed.
We've given you a blank check. We want to win
a championship, and you're not spending the money I'm listening to.
I'm listening to people all over town blaming us. Go

(31:10):
get somebody that puts us over the top. Why are
you not doing it? So, if you've got somebody that's
so fed up psychologically that they're scared to spend money
because it makes them look bad, then I'm going to
fire them for feeling that way.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, And there's two parts of that. Number One, I
don't know. I've I've speculated that he may not want
to spend money because then that kind of that puts
the onus on him. If he spends it but then
spends it incorrectly, that's that's a in some places fireable offense.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Right. If he gives a bad contract out especially to.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
An organization that's not as financially flexible as this one,
it can be it can lead to him losing his job.
So maybe he wants and we talked about this with
the Orioles GM two. The Orioles owners are giving him
money and he doesn't want it because that puts more
pressure on him. So there may be some truth to that.

(32:04):
I'm not saying that I think that that is the case.
But the thing that I do notice is the stat
I keep going back to six teams that had a
lower payroll than the Mariners last year went to the playoffs.
So there are tons of gms and owner and presidents
whoever makes the baseball decisions that are in worse ownership
situations than Jerry Depoto is, and they're able to do

(32:26):
more than Jerry Depoto is. So why can't we have that?
Is my thought process. And then once we do get that,
then I'll start complaining about ownership and like giving them
more money to spend.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
Well the thing. Okay, So number one, I would say
it sounds too ludicrous to be true, right, that that's
actually the case. Right, So that's that's my first Okay,
Then secondarily, if it is true, then ownership should fire
him because he's got a psychological hurdle that he can't overcome,
and I need a general manager who's more aggressive and

(32:59):
can fit. It feels like the moves he makes are
going to work. I'll give him, and I will give
him credit for what the great work that he's done
another in a lot of the areas, but I need
a finisher. So I'm going to go hire a finisher
because for some reason, I'm giving Jerry money and he
and Justin have decided not to spend it. And it's
weird nothing else. I just want to be away from

(33:20):
that weirdo, you know. So that would be the second
thing I would say, and then the third thing that
I would say. And again, this is a little bit
where I differ with you in the past, and where
I differ with Mollywop guys in the past, Ian and
others who have been hypercritical where I have not been.
I am very proud of my baseball analysis, but a

(33:43):
lot of fought behind it, and I think I'm a
very outside the box thinker when it comes to this stuff.
And so if I think they did enough last offseason
to get them in but it just failed, just didn't work.
Just didn't work. And maybe we get into Mike Petriello
argument for reasons why it didn't work. Then I'm not

(34:06):
going to torch them in the middle of the season
after the season. I mean, it didn't work. Yeah, but
I don't think it was a terrible plan last year,
and I don't think it was a terrible plan the
previous year. Okay, it didn't work. Right now, where I
will be critical and have been critical is you're not
leaving yourself much margin for error. And this year you

(34:27):
are in a championship Well I'm not talking about this. Yeah,
this year's F minus yeah yeah. Yeah. So where I
have been hyper critical myself, it's just in an individual
area is you're in a championship window. You're not making
championship moves. I don't want you to build me a
ninety win team. I want you to build me one
hundred win team. Yeah, you know. So where's that big

(34:48):
move that puts you over the top. Why are we
having to move money around in order to just cut
down on strikeouts? I think that's the solution. I mean,
you can ask Bucky go back during the rebuild, when
I would say every off season, you know, you don't
have to wait until you're good to get a player.
He could still be good three years from now. Nolan

(35:09):
Aeronado is a free agent and might have some years
to contribute at third base. Now it looks like he's
hit a wall, and it's one of the reasons why
Jerry Depotdo doesn't want to sign Nolan Aernado's of the
world sign him to a seven year deal and he's
only got three years to give you, and that's a
really heavy anchor to have to carry around, especially for
a team with a cheap ownership group. But JT. Real

(35:31):
Muto kind of the same way. Looks like he's kind
of hitting that wall at age thirty five. But I
used to say, get real Muto, and that's where I
realized what Cal is going to be. Yeah, and then
Manny Machado. We can go back all the way to
Manny Machado's free agency when I was saying, go get me.
So I've been saying, where's that Dansby Swanson, Marcus Simeon.
I mean, I can go back every year to the

(35:53):
guy that I wanted them to get in the off
season and they didn't do it, or either or couldn't
do it, which is another possibility out there, which could
also relate to the Petriello argument. Our free agent's not
just coming here because Mike Petriello is not the only
one that knows offense goes to die at t Mobile

(36:14):
Park in Seattle, Washington, so I don't kill him for
the last couple of years. But I frankly have no
idea what's happening this offseason. Yeah, they must have really
overestimated the or underestimated however you want to look at it.
They read the market wrong, trade market, free agent market.

(36:34):
They had to, and that is inexcusable because that's your
fricking job. A stockbroker's got to be able to read
the stock market, and a general manager of a major
League baseball team has to be able to read the
tree Aide market and the free agent market. And if
you failed that miserably, that you're sitting there with Donovan
Solano in your grocery basket, and that's it. That's firable. Yeah,

(36:58):
that's firable. If you're so bad at your assessment of
the market that it left you paralyzed and you couldn't
make a move to improve this team. Championship window stuff.
That's what we need right now. That's what we've needed
now for three years, and we haven't. We haven't gone
all the way to doing it. And that's why we're

(37:19):
not talking about a team with a three game, three
year winning playoff streak and now this year, no attempt
at all. Yeah, no attempt at all, not even a
creative attempt, right, just a we give up. We're gonna
roll over on my belly, pet me and my belly. Yeah,
I uh, don't hurt me. I'm not even gonna show

(37:43):
my face in public. I'm not gonna hold a press conference.
It's I won't even attend a Seattle media meeting that
I attended a year ago because I'm going to stay
home and avoid critics.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yeah, happy hour where no one's gonna rail you for anything.
It's it's just gonna be.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
It's it's it's it's I can't. I don't know what
the hell's going on.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, And I think I think that's why people are
trying to figure out, Like is it that they can't
make moves or that they won't make moves. That's the
biggest question for me, Like are they really that constricted
toward It's like no, you can't do that.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
The only thing I can explain Andrews is they're not
being allowed to spend. This is the only thing that
makes rational sense to me. They're not allowed to spend,
so they're not participating in free agency. Okay, And we're
probably because remember they got the rug cup pulled out
from under them at the last second. They thought they
were going to be able to spend. They told us
that at the exit press conference in twenty twenty three. Yes,

(38:39):
going into last year. Yes, Justin Hollanders sat up there
on the set. I asked him, Yes, at the press conference,
you're going to be able to spend. We have no restrictions. Yeah, okay,
and then the story the divish broke. We have restrictions. Yes,
So they pulled the rug out from underneath them before
twenty twenty threes offseason. This year, the only that I

(39:02):
can figure out is if they didn't let them spend
at all. So, from the free agent standpoint, ownership won't
let them spend anything.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Not even from the fifteen million that you saved by
not right resigning Polanco y Rojas.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
And then from a trade standpoint, they are in love
with all of their prospects and will not part with them.
And that's the only thing I can explain, and that's
the bigger issue for me.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
Unless because we talked about this before, there may not
be as much of a market for prospects in today's
game because there's not a lot of teams that are rebuilding.
I think that's so that's another aspect to this, and
that goes back to misreading the market. And this leads
to I mentioned that Ian Furness on our show yesterday.
We played that clip for his contact that's also a

(39:54):
Major League Baseball scout, and he's talked about it more
from the perspective of this specific offseason. Word and I'll paraphrase,
I won't have it exactly, but this is basically what
he said. Word around the street is they asked.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
For too much for Luis Castillo. Uh. Most teams view him.
He's not lone longer one.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Most teams view him as a two or three and
they were giving a return for what a two or
three starter would be.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
On that contract.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
And now they are going to have to kind of
desperately trade him and not get what he's valued back
at this point in the year. And they do expect
Louis Castio to be traded, and they misread the market
was one of the phrases that he used.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Okay, well, I still think you could get a I
mean if Cassas was there, Yeah, if Alec Bohm was there. Yeah,
I mean you know, maybe maybe I overestimated his value
as well. Yeah, me too. But there is a point though,
I will say this that, Okay, if you're just telling
me all I can get back in return for Luis,

(40:59):
cause Deo is a prospect that may or may not
be ready to contribute right now, then I'd rather keep
Luis Castile. I would too. So maybe that's what's happened
is they're like, well, we value him more than that.
We do think he's an ace still, and so we're
not going to move him. But then you know what
you have to do at that point trade one of

(41:20):
your other guys. You have to trade one of the
other guys whose market value is incredibly high. Two people
do see as a number one who aren't going to
be free agents for years now, so they can get
even more in return. And so now you got to
go to Baltimore and say, we don't want to do it,
but we know how much Jim Palmer raves and drools
over George Kirby, and so here's what we want. Will

(41:43):
take Westburg and will take Kowser, and you're gonna have Kirby.
And we hate to do it, but guess what, we
just improved two spots in our offense for years to come,
young players for years to come, and we're a better
team for it. See.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
I think that that makes a lot of sense. Like
both like that's what's happening. I think they do value
Luis Castillo pretty highly because I think people like him
around here. I think I don't think they think that
his salary is bogging the team down by any means.
It's just that's what you had to do at that
point in time, which was a win now move, and
they made the playoffs because of it. So it's not

(42:20):
like his contract is now all of a sudden bad
and they have to get rid of it. But he's
one of those options that gives you more flexibility to
get something in return and then therefore spend more money.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
But if you do.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
Still value him very highly, and I do, I'm bullish
on Castillo. I still think he's a number one. I
still think if you're in the playoffs right now, he'd
be your game one starter, just based off experience and
kind of his his mentality, his dog in him that
I like to say. So, then yeah, I think that's
the next step in the process of trying to add
to your offense, is you got to trade one of

(42:50):
those other guys. But the other thing is, I know
we've talked about this too, with the health of the
starting pitching, how can we expect that to be the
case next year? You trust Emerson Hancock to be an
everyday five starter and then one of a guy or
two goes down for a month. Brian wu was out
for a month last year. Like, there's all these questions,

(43:10):
and I understand that that's kind of what we're playing
with at this point. But is there a reason maybe
they're very hesitant to get rid of their starting pitching.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Well, I mean, yeah, there are reasons why you're hesitant
to get rid of their starting pitching. But if you're
desperately in search of offense, yeah, and that's the area that
you're good at developing, and you are good. I mean,
this isn't a fluke. They're very good to keeping healthy, right,
So I think you have to worry about that less
than other people. Yes, and Hancock, Yeah, he's not. You're

(43:42):
gonna weaken your starting rotation, but it's got room for
room to do that. Yes, and you probably. And my
plan with Castillo was to add another arm at some
point in the process so that you did give yourself
a little bit of starting rotation depth. Every organization has
to have it going into the into the year. The

(44:04):
only I guess, I think what the last rumor about
where they were Devish or Jude, I'm not sure which
one it was, was floating out there that they're still
planning on making a significant move, but they're waiting for
the market. I don't know if that's the Bregman signing,
But now Bregman looks like he's leaning toward Houston's and

(44:24):
they're not trading or they're not trading with you, So
I mean, that's going to create a log jam if
he ends up back in Houston. They don't have any
place to pay him, right, They've got Parades at third,
they got Altuve at second, and they've got Alvarez dhing. Well,
maybe they trade parades, even trading for after just trading
for I take Isaac parade too but they're not going
to trade with the Astros, aren't going to trade with

(44:46):
the Mariners. So I guess that they're holding their hopes
that he goes to like a Cubs, and then the
Cubs will trade a Nico Horner or a Matt Shaw
and then now maybe you flip Castillo for Nico Horner
and Owen Casey their second top prospect, and then maybe

(45:07):
I'll do that. Casey's like ready to play in the
majors right now. In place I think just first base,
maybe outfield, I don't know, but at least I can
satisfy second base. Yeah, with Nico Horner, who I like.
So I don't know if that's what they're waiting for
at this stage, for Alonso and Bregman to sign. To
Jim Bowden's point earlier, why don't you sign sign one

(45:29):
of them. It's not like there's this huge bidding war
between the two. You could probably get him for less
value than you originally expected to. Why don't you get Bregman? Yeah,
and then put him at third, and then you've opened
up the market to trade some other pieces. Now the
Cubs don't yeah, now yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Now the Cubs are like, oh, maybe we want Cole
Young because I don't think yeah, I see, yeah something
like that. Yeah, yes, But to me like you, you've
had opportunities this entire offseason. Yeah, you've misread the market,
that's clear. Now you're desperate and uh and so now

(46:10):
you have to fear. Are you going to make a
stupid move now out of desperation? My guess is they won't.
My guess is they won't.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
My guess is they'll roll into the season with Blis
at second, Shinton at third, and Donovan Solano rotating with
Luke Raley at first base and your d H Mitch
Hanniger or Mitch Carver. Yeah, yes, I do.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
Yes for radio, it's not as effective, so I will
I will try and silence.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Silence, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
Uh so another thing you mentioned before we get out
of here is the uh the the article regarding the
park factor at T Mobile Park. I'm I'm I'll be
first to admit I'm not park factor guy. I'm not
someone who goes into the weeds on and you know
how much it affects free agent signings versus like, and
how what types of hitters work in Seattle versus don't

(47:07):
work in Seattle. Just tell me about your findings upon
reading this article, because I know Luke Arkins, who will
join us at some point later on in this stove
off season, usually probably right before the season starts kind
of give our grades and break down of the whole offseason.
But he's he's big into that kind of research. So
what was your thoughts upon reading that?

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Well, there are so many things in this article that
so many angles we could take. I mean we've broken
it into like a different angle every day. That's how
much of a conversation can be held from this article.
And so I said, I tweeted out as soon as
I read it, I'm like, well, this is fifty show's
worth of material there. And it's not because we found

(47:50):
out through Mike Petriello from Fangrafts and MLB dot Com.
He's an analytics guy. He's very good that the Barners
have a difficult park to hit in. Really, really, that's
not the break. I realized that it's very easy to
just go to to you know, fangraphs or where it

(48:11):
cast park factors. Yeah, that'll reference and they'll show you
the splits and everybody knows, you know, so we already
knew that it's to the degree that blew my mind.
I won't speak for everybody else, it's to the degree
for them to say that t Mobile is more difficult

(48:32):
to hit in than Corsefield is easy to hit in.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Or to pitchin, Like it's more difficult to hit in
than Cole's Field is to pitch in.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yes, right, right, right, I mean we said the same thing. Yeah,
it's just a little differently. Yeah. Yeah, for them to
say that, now that is mind blowing. Okay, because this
is I mean, this is somebody that is when Coresfield open,
people are like, we can't put a baseball team there.
They've got a thin air. You're gonna have to build
the park with nine hundred foot walls, you know, in

(49:01):
order to keep you know, the home runs from leaving
the park. And so then they made it monstrous. And
now they have alleys so big that it's easy to
get doubles and triples in. Yeah, so we all are
no to the point that when a Colorado Rocky comes
up for Hall of Fame, you automatically have to hold
it against them. Right that they played a course field.

(49:23):
I never dreamed while I'm watching Logan Gilbert George Kirby
Luis Castillo, Felix Hernandez, whoever. I never it never crossed
my mind. Okay, they're really good, but are they too
pitching what Todd Hilton is to hitting or you know,

(49:43):
and Mike Petriello is saying, not only is it the same,
it's actually more of a big deal in Seattle. Now
that's mind blowing. Okay, Now, there are a lot of
different angles. This is the one that I will deal
with here on You and ized pot got it, Okay,
so we'll just we'll focus on this one. Because the

(50:05):
Mariners know this information. This is not new, and Mike
Petriella didn't. I mean, they have an entire analytics team
looking for every single angle to try to be more successful.
Mariners are very well of this. We're well aware of this.
They've been well aware of this since the park opened. Yes,
I mean that was another part of the Petrillo article
that Edgar Eachi wrote Dan Wilson. They were all complaining

(50:29):
about it the day the park opened. Okay, so it's
been around forever and yet until it was spelled out
just how difficult it is. That's the story. But the
Mariners know it and their opponents know it. That's where
analytics is. Right. Now, this isn't a secret to baseball people.

(50:50):
It might have been to us, but the Mariners know
very well what they're up against at home offensively, and
they know that their opponents know very well what they're
up against and what they have to do differently to
adjust them their approach when they get here. So this
is very well known. So the issue is how have

(51:13):
you not used it to your advance, right, that's the
big question, because you figured it out on the pitching side. Yeah,
eighty one games, that's the most consistent thing in your
entire organization. Yep. You can't trust that George Kirby's gonna
quit baseball and join a you know, a cult. You know,
you have no idea. Yeah, you don't know.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Logan Gilberts, I just would join a cult too. They
would be the first guys to do it. I promise you.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
You don't know Brian who's gonna, you know, throw a
two hit shutout that night, or if he's gonna get
hit by a bus on the way to work. T
Mobile's gonna be T Mobile. Yeah, that's your park. And
they might be able to finagle a couple of things
to adjust it. But you're going to be hitting in
a park that is friendly to pitchers, and you still
you've had forty plus years to figure out the best

(52:01):
way to do this, and you obviously haven't figured it out,
And so what are we going to see in twenty
twenty five? Because it feels like Jerry has like an
NFL head coach who's a defensive star and says, I
don't want anything to do with the offense. I mean
a d offensive coordinator. He can have all of that.

(52:22):
I'll do the press conferences, I'll obviously do the defense.
I'll do the roster stuff, I'll do the drafting stuff
with my general manager. But the offense, that's Bills. Yeah.
So finally the Seahawks ex see me. The Mariners sound
like they've gotten to that point where Jerry's like, whatever
we're doing, we don't see it. Yep. So we're handing
it over to Edgar, Kevin Seitzer, Dan Wilson analytics obviously,

(52:49):
and Jerry and Justin or Justin and I are not
going to even touch it anymore. Kind of sounds like
that's the way it's going to be ken Okay, but
still with this knowledge, because part of the article was
it's not the home runs. It's not that it's so
substantially taking away home run and that's what them like
everyone talks about the marine layer.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
Everyone assumes like, oh, the air is thicker as opposed
to quarters field, which is thinner, so it's harder to
hit home runs. The home runs is actually not a
huge issue in T Mobile Park.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
It's lesser, right, but it's not substantial compared to the
rest of Yeah, where it's substantial is strikeouts. Yeah, opponents
striking out a lot more and our team striking out
a lot more. So, all right, what did we talk
about earlier in this segment in this episode, you did

(53:41):
a what you did in the off season matches what
Petriello is saying you're going to have to do at
T Mobile Park. They tried to with the same amount
of money create a team that wouldn't possibly strike out
as much, and they struck out more. Right. Okay, So
if that, if you can't even identify guys to come

(54:06):
here and strike out less, they're just striking out less,
then do you have to change your entire hitting philosophy?
Are we going to see this team under Dan Wilson
Bunt play old school baseball? Are they gonna bunt more?
Which I know some people want to cry when they
hear that word, I want to more? Are they going

(54:29):
to go back to hit and run? I mean, you
and I discussed this just the other day. They have
a much faster team right now than what they did
a year ago. That was a slow ass team they
started last year with. So are they going to steal
bases like mad? Are they going to Are they gonna
sacrifice power in order to put the ball in play
to try to give them the advantage or is it

(54:53):
the flip side like are pitching? We were have the
second best home record in the American League last year
because of our pitching. Do we have to beef up
right so that we're better on the road. I don't
know what the answer is, but it does sound like
there's coming a major shift in offensive philosophy. And maybe

(55:14):
Jerry and Justin can't figure out the players, so they're
just gonna lean on the new philosophy to try to
make it a different offensive ball.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Okay, So end of speech. Yeah, no lot to unpack there.
The one question I would have, and this would just
be my original thought, if strikeouts is such a big issue,
and so strikeouts, and I think like the other thing
was like there's no doubles hit, or like it's very

(55:45):
few doubles and triples as well. So that tells me, Okay,
guys that struggle here are the more contact driven and
gap to gap hitters, right, those are the ones that
are affected more by T Mobile Park. But the ones
that are kind of like gonna have a lot of

(56:06):
strikeouts but also hit a lot of home runs are
not going to be as affected because what they do
well isn't as negated by the effects of T Mobile Park.
And that kind of that tracks because I think one
of the few signings that has worked in the Jerry
Justin era has been a Henio Suarez. Lots of strikeouts,

(56:27):
it's lots of home runs, and he was basically it
was actually better in T Mobile Park very ever so
slightly than he was away from home. So my question
then is are you going to keep trying to lean
into negating what's bad about T Mobile Park, which is
the strikeouts and then the kind of putting the ball

(56:49):
in play sort of thing, or do you lean into
it and go all right, what's worked has been the
kind of heavy strikeout guys, but the guys that launch
a lot of homers. So an example would be Pete Alonzo, Right,
he's going to strike out a lot. He's going to
hit thirty thirty plus homers.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
So I don't know.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
Me personally, the first thought I would have is like,
all right, let's let's build a team that probably is
going to strike out a lot anyway, So there pluses
aren't going to be negated by Tiamobile Park. They're still
going to hit a lot of home runs and they
won't be as affected because they're going to strike out anyway.
So I don't know, that's just kind of my original thought,
but I could see the thought process of wanting to

(57:27):
go the opposite way as well.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
So I don't know what are your response to that.
I think they're going I spoke to Dan Wilson. Yeah,
he didn't give me anything obvious, and he's being guarded.
He's not going to give me anything. Is that a
media event yet? Right? Exactly? We've each had a Medello, right,
you know, uh and so, but I got the impression
in my first conversation with him about this that they're

(57:49):
going to perhaps go more small. Okay, that you know
you've got Dan Wilson and Edgar Martinez and Kevin Sitzer,
and they're going to try to get this team to
hit up the middle and really trying to focus, like
our opponents are going to strike out a lot because
they're not going to work on this stuff. Yeah, they're
going to work on modern, the modern day way of winning.

(58:13):
And so they're gonna they're gonna play for every ballpark
but ours. So let's play to our ballpark because it's
the most consistent thing that we have. So we already
know we can outpitch them in our ballpark. If we
can just outproduce them offensively, not out hit them, but
outproduce them, then I mean, second best record in the

(58:34):
American League at home. That didn't seem to be an
issue with this team a year ago, but it is
the one thing you have control of. Yes, we play
eighty one games here, everybody else plays three to six.
So let's be the best version we can on our
home soil so we can. Let's u this park is

(58:55):
a deterrent, let's use it to an advantage and every
way we possibly can. My impression is you're going to
see a lot more old school version of baseball from
the Mariners this year. I think they're going to They're
not gonna bun a lot, right, They're going to bump more.
They're going to steal a lot of frigging basses, and
they're going to be about putting the ball in play

(59:17):
up the middle. That's that's the that's the production. So JP,
Crawford swinging for the Heels. I don't know who let
him get away from that, get away with that all
season long last year, but they should be fired. I
think they were Scott Service. So JP that that's done
and it should be. It was terrible, and he changed
his entire approach at the plate stupidly because he was

(59:39):
coming off a great year. Right, Julio swinging out of
his ass on two strikes when he's got a runner
at third base. Nope, not anymore. I think that's going
to be the change ye're going to see. Is it
going to be enough to make them better? Considering they've
done nothing to add to the ball club. I'm not
that optimistic. Okay, So.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Do you is there any way to marry those two
approaches that you and I just brought up? Like maybe
you do lean into the guy, Like maybe the additions
you make can either be you know, one end of
the extreme, the home run strikeout guy, Pete Alonzo, a
Henio Suarez examples.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Ringing alanzh don't change his game, not at all. His
is proven. Yeah about just adding him exactly, and then
everybody else can adjust and go. And then we let
the big guy do big guy thing, and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Then you bring in has On Kim small ball, put
the ball in play up the middle. Yeah, obviously this
is theoretical, right, but you know what I mean? So
like instead of like, now that I look back on it,
someone like Jorgey Polanco, who you can see, is like,
oh he has pop, but he also puts the ball
in play kind of middle of the road.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Well, here's the middle of the road. Boba Schet. Now
it's not a good time to quote Bobashet because he's
coming off a terrible year. Yeah, but I heard him
get interviewed and it's kind of a new wave philosophy.
They're like, all right, what's your approach? And he goes, well,
I swing out of my ass until I've got two
strikes and then I slap it. Yeah, what's wrong with that?

(01:01:08):
Why are JP and Julio swinging out of their ass
on all three strikes. Yeah, how about that? Yeah, so
let's just go ahead and let them swing out of
their ass right until they get two strikes right, and
then maybe Edgar can convince them totally. I'm all of famer,
the best two strike hitters of all time. Yeah, right,
here's how you approach two strikes. Follow me or die?

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
You know that sort of God forbid there's any sort
of nuance, and like, you can have both approaches. You know,
you can't just be a slappy dap singles Louis Aria's hitter.
But you also can't be a pee Alonso is going
to hit forty home runs a year?

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
You know. Yeah, you can have both.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
You can, and especially with this team where you have
guys that have proven to have some pop, but also
you know they have speed, they can put the ball
in play. I look at someone like Julio like, it's
a great example. The dude can hit thirty home runs
in a year. We've seen him do that. I but
I know he can do that. What I want to
see out of him? Can you get a runner in

(01:02:04):
from third?

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Yeah? With one out? Yeah, that's what I want to
see out When you come to the plate with ducks
on the pond and two outs. Are you going to
try to hit a Grand Slam every time? Or can
you actually come through? Can I spend this season being
excited that our best player is coming to the plate
with the bases loaded in the ninth versus crap, it's Julio, Yeah,

(01:02:28):
and I know exactly what he's going to do. He's
going to try to hit one in the third deck
in the left center field because that's cool. Yeah, you
know so. I mean, I don't think it's going to
look drastically different. I don't think that we're coming out
here with the Baltimore chop we Willie Keeler stuff, you know,
Ty Cobb choking two thirds of the way up the

(01:02:49):
bat and just slap it into It's not going to
look dramatically different, but it's going to be just enough
different that I think theoretically it produces better results. And
it doesn't mean we're going to win six to two
ball games at home, but maybe we're winning games three
to two versus losing them, you know, two to one.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Yeah, And let me look, there's some stats here. What
do you think his ops was in a late and
close game? According to Baseball reference. I don't know exactly
what that means. Yeah, I don't know. Seven ninety six
so not awful. Two outs RSP. What do you think

(01:03:29):
his ops was?

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
I have no idea.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
Six seventy four not great. Yeah, let's see there is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Well, also take into account because there's the other Julio.
I don't want to see one that doesn't show up
till summer didn't go. I think that's a bigger issue
personally because he obviously he rakes in July and August,
August and September.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Yeah, usually all the time, the first couple of years
in July as well. Yeah, so yeah, I know, I'm
with you. I think hopefully a coaching change in that
and the approach change will help with that stuff, because
you know, if you're swinging for home runs every time,
it's gonna happen less often in April.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Okay, So was the seven ninety six with less than
two outs? Did you say? Or just ninth inning? Late
and close? So like late and close.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
I'm assuming that's after seventh inning and within maybe one
or two runs.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Okay, So it's not talking about run product production, correct, Yes,
I just was looking at Baseball Reference. It could be
I'm at the plate with one out, nobody on right,
two outs. RASP was six seventy something, so not great,
not good. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
I think at one point in the year he was
a little bit higher, but I think it fell off
towards the end of the year, which is weird because
you kind of assume.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Well, I'll say say this, I mean numbers aside. Yeah,
I have three people on my morning show. We did
recaps every Mariners game, and we did get to the
point last year where we're like, oh, no, Julio's up. Yeah,
and that I never dreamt, yeah, would be possible with
that guy. But you know what, everybody's convinced he's gonna

(01:05:01):
have a bounce back here. And I do mean well
not everybody, because you're never gonna have anything with everybody.
The stats, the projections people, the projections people all have
monster years projected for him.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. And I think that's job
number one for this new offensive approach. If Julio can
be a top five m P candidate, which we've seen
this flashes that he can be at times, If he
can be that for an entire year, I think that
goes a long way. In masking this f minus offseason
and helping this team become a perennial playoff team and maybe,

(01:05:36):
God forbid, maybe get off to a good start and
get people excited during the summer instead of like, oh
my god, we have to battle from behind for the
last three years. Yeah, I think that will do wonders
for people. If the Mariners started off with a five
or six game lead after the end of May or June,
you know, like, god like, it would take the pressure
off a lot of these players. It would get the

(01:05:57):
town behind Dan Wilson again. Like so much has to
go right in that first half of the season. I
think is so so so important.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
Yeah, all right, then we'll do it for us. A
great episode. Thank you, Andrews. Thank you appreciate it. We'll
do it again next week. We are less than three
weeks away from spring training, and so that also brings
an end to the stove. So we'll save our best
two episodes. Yeah, we will last for Andrews Hurst. My
name is Chuck Powell. Hope you enjoyed. We'll talk to
you again next week.