Offseason Grades and Pre-Season Outlook.

Chuck Powell and Anders Hirst give their offseason grades for each trade, look forward to the season as spring training is here, and maybe some predictions thrown in there...

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Stove. What a kind of nameis that. It's a great name,
is what it is. Welcome toanother edition of Stove, our Mariners only
off season podcasts. Anders Hurst andChuck Powell with you this off season.
It's been a very interesting one,I will say that. And a few
more episodes to go. But Anders, Anders it's the first Stove episode where

(00:25):
spring training is actually underway. Ohyes, you know that lovely sound of
the cleats hitting the concrete walking tothe baseball yeh, yeah, it's it's
so much optimism at this time ofthe year. Every team feels like they
can win the World Series. Everyone'sready to have winter done with. It's
it's such a good time to bea baseball fan. Super Bowl is over,

(00:48):
spring training is starting. It isofficially baseball season now. Cracking the
bat, pop of the glove.Bucky hates the pop pop of the glove.
It reminds him of all the timeshe's drug out. That's fair.
Fair. But now that you mentionthat baseball is such an audible sport,
there's a lot of sounds associated withit, you know, more so than

(01:10):
I think any other sport. It'sit's it's got it. It's a visual
too. I mean, look athow people are losing their minds over the
uniforms in Spa. Yeah, that'strue already. I mean, you know,
the cathedrals of the ballpark are justso beautiful, so beautiful, the
green grass, the sunshine, whichwe're going to get to experience Bucky and
I at spring training cover jamming upthis week. But yes, this Stove

(01:36):
podcast. I mean, as longas there are moves to be made,
it's the off season, yes,and so we continue with Stove. Yeah,
and there's definitely some moves to bemade because there are some big free
agents that still have not signed yet. We still got Blake Snell available,
we still got Cody Bellinger available.I don't those are kind of the two
big ones that I think of.But those are chap Matt Chapman, that's

(01:57):
true, one of the Mariners reallylike apparently, Jordan Montgomery. Yeah,
there's still some pieces out there.I wouldn't that be something that we just
got that unexpected. I mean,I don't even really like Cody Bellinger.
I don't. I'm really worried aboutthe last three years, those two awful
years, the one great year whereby the way, he was great statistically,

(02:22):
but analytically not the best, notvery good at all. So I
mean basically what the analytics world saidis this is the flukiest great season that
we've ever recorded, and yet thereand yet if they signed him like tomorrow
to like a one year, thirtymillion dollars deal because he was not getting
what he was looking for on themarket. Yeah, I mean, how

(02:44):
exciting is that they awesome put himin right field? He plays gold globe
defense, steels fifteen bases this year, left left, then Anders and I
won it all off seasons, evenbetter protection, I would think, at
least early on until he proves otherwise. For Julio in the order agreed,
Yeah, I mean that that wouldthat changed the game. That would be

(03:07):
something that would be something I willsay, I don't expect that to happen,
but you never know. You neverknow at this point the season,
especially kind of with how those playersoutlooks have have come out a little bit
and seems like teams aren't willing togive him as much as maybe they would
expect. So yeah, it's it'sI'm actually have a lot more optimism going

(03:28):
into this year than I did goinginto last year. Oh, as a
Mariners fan. So we talked tomany Acta yesterday. That dude just you
know, he you know, bleedsoptimism. You get too excited just talking
to him about the Mariners baseball.So that helped a lot with me looking
forward to the season. He waspretty honest about being disappointed last year,

(03:49):
uh, and that the guys wereknow that that wasn't good enough saying with
the front office and the coaching staff. So they're ready to prove everyone wrong
this year, and they think theyhave a better team. So I'm really
I'm really hype for this next year. Yeah, I'm ready to go as
well. I don't know if Ido feel as good. I thought for
sure they were a playoff team lastseason at this time, I don't know

(04:10):
if I would. I don't knowif I would categorize it as being for
sure. But if you were totell me pick seven teams from the American
League to make the playoffs, they'reone of my seven. Do we have
a shot at winning the division?Yes, there's a shot at winning the
division, but I wouldn't make usfavorites in that division. So that's kind
of where last year I thought therewas a little better chance of taking down

(04:34):
the astros than what I feel goinginto this year. But health's going to
be the key. I mean,the lineup is better if the attribute the
additions that they've made will a voidthe thing that's cost them in recent years
injury history for the additions. Ifthey can stay healthy, then I think

(04:57):
it's a more balanced lineup. Ithink it's a deeper rock. And I
expect the pitching, even though thereweren't any changes made to the starting rotation,
to be better because of their agesand their experience levels. I expect
really four out of the five ofthem to be better, and I don't
I wouldn't even be surprised if weget a better season out of Luis Castille.
I would neither. I did thebreakdown of his numbers. I mean

(05:20):
when he's on, he's on,and when he's off, he's off.
Yeah, Like he had an ERAof one point one point nine in wins
and five point five to one andlosses. I mean that is maybe that's
the gap for everybody, but thatis a really significant gap. I mean,
if you can if you can losegames three to two instead of seven

(05:45):
to four this year, now we'retalking about a two point seven to five
era and you might win the SyYoung Award, win Cy Young Awards.
So I think even he can bebetter. So that that's the primary reason
for my optimism. I don't thinkthere's a starting rotation that can touch this
one. I agree with you,and that's one of the reasons why I'm
with you. I think they canbe better this year. I want to
see more from Brian wu I wantto see more from Bryce Miller. I

(06:08):
think George Kirby still has some roomto grow, which is scary to me.
He's one of the best war pitchersin baseball last year. I think
Logan Gilbert still has a little moreto give to They all have seems like
they've added a few pitches too.I think Bryce Miller's kind of the wild
card because he was a very onedimensional like Okay, strikeout and then versus
Righty's guy, and then I guessyou could throw Brian Woo into this too.

(06:30):
But when they faced the opposite handof batter, it was a little
bit less success. But I thinkone off season of work going into that
with them being fully healthy's going toreally really help with that. So I'm
excited to have you hear your guys'conversations with a lot of those guys and
see what they think about going intothis year. But let's just do a
quick rundown of the trades and movesthe Mariners have made this offseason, and

(06:54):
then why don't we just do athumbs up er thumbs down for each move
that we've made. You're too,Will Siskel and Ebert. It is Yeah,
they were old movie They were themost famous movie critics of all time.
And it was one one chubby guyand one skinny bald guy. And
their grading system was simply thumbs upor thumbs down. Okay, it wasn't

(07:15):
like, you know, five stars, four and a half stars. It
was just thumbs up or thumbs down. So that's what we'll do, and
let's go. This is remarkable.Let me think about there were seven trades.
I think there were more than that. I think there were some minor
deals, right, but like seventhat impacted the forty man roster. Seven
trades, that's a lot andres therewere teams. There are teams in baseball

(07:38):
that still haven't made a move atall. I know they haven't made a
trade. They haven't added through freeagency. There are multiple teams in the
sport that have done nothing to addto their rosters, right, And I
think I mentioned this earlier in theoffseason. I don't think it has changed.
The Myriaders have been the second mostactive team in baseball, probably besides

(07:59):
the Dodgers. Not saying it's allall makes your team better, all positive
moves, but you know, ofcourse we've talked all off season about you
know, the reasoning behind having toshuffle around some things. But in terms
of just moves made, I thinkthe Marriors are the second most active team.
They are ready to wheel and deal, as they say, yeah,
and they might be the most interms of this number of deals, not

(08:22):
as big and impactful as Yamamoto andOtani. But that's why I think we
could go through this exercise and kindof go through them because we don't like
them all and we don't dislike themall, and it just shows the balance.
You kind of in one episode ofStove to the next, you kind
of get focused on one thing,But have we taken the time to go
through everything overall that has been donefrom an acquisition standpoint, And I'm just

(08:46):
going to go through the trades.We're not even going to get to Garver
as free agent. Other things justgo through the trades. So let's start
with a minor one and work ourway up Isaiah Campbell to the Boston Red
Sox for Luis Urius or however youwant to pronounce the game. And so
that was the first one, thefirst I think it was the first deal.

(09:07):
I think that was the first dealof the off season. Thumb up,
thumb down. I give it athumb up, especially given you know
what would come later. I thinkin terms of what you were giving up
versus what you were receiving, youcan look at it in many ways thinking
like, oh, maybe then thereyou have to trade Uno Suarez, which
we can get to eventually later.But I think in terms of just value

(09:28):
giving up versus value receiving, Ithink there's some upside with Urius. I
think you can, I'm not sayingeasily replace Isaiah Campbell, but he was
a lower end bullpen guy. TheMariners seem to find those kind of everywhere.
So I think in terms of tryingto build your roster and get something
at third base that you feel goodabout, I give it a thumbs up.

(09:48):
Yeah, I do as well.And look, you're trading from a
position of depth, not necessarily onthe forty man, but this is an
area that you have shine as anorganization. Finding bullpen arms. Hell,
they're talking about Jordan Holloway maybe beinga former Marlin relief pitcher throwing ninety eight

(10:09):
miles per hour who could never controlhis pitches in Miami and he gets with
Pete Woodworth in February and he mightbe the secret. You know, they
always have one of them every year, so relief pitcher that you never heard
of that ends up being a significantpiece to their entire season. So I
think Campbell is one of those thatI watched a year ago. Wasn't blown

(10:31):
away. His numbers were not bad, No, they were not. He
was a picture and yet by theend of the season, when you're playing
in meaningful games, they seemed veryscared to try to use him in high
leverage situations. And I felt theexact same way. So I don't think
you're giving up much and you aregetting in return somebody that just a couple
of years ago was thought of asa real good young piece, and about

(10:56):
four years ago was thought of asone of the best prospects in the entire
sport. A guy that killed minorleague pitchers. Yeah, so yeah,
he's had he had a awful seasona year ago. But let me roll
the dice on. We can recapturesome of that magic before it slips away,
and to give up a middle relieverat best that that it was gonna

(11:20):
use we were going to use inmop up duty. Yeah, I'm making
that deal. Yeah, and ifyou look at it, like a lot
of times, you can look atoffseason moves and be like, yeah,
I actually like that player, Butwhat does that mean for the future,
Because a lot of people were kindof speculating like, oh, okay,
is that our second basement that weget right, So, while you wouldn't
be necessarily super excited about what hebrings in terms of a starter every single

(11:46):
day, if you look at justvalue giving up versus value receiving, I
give it the thumbs up. Sowhat's the next one? All right,
next one, let's talk about theGino Suarrez trade that you mentioned for Carlos
Vargas a relief pitcher and Sebbi's Vallathumb down. Yeah, unfortunately, this
is the thumbs down for me.I was am and was a huge au

(12:07):
Heno Suarez fan and kind of goingback to the Ureus comments, like people
could kind of see the writing onthe wall either he was going to be
your starting second basement, which doesn'tsuper excite a lot of people. I
guess it would be better than JoshRojas. But now that we know what
happens later, is that you tradeat ju Heenya Suarez, He's gonna most
likely slot into third base now.Uh So, I don't know, he's

(12:31):
older. He had a lot ofstrikeouts. I get it last year,
but if you look at the positives, he's a gold glove caliber third basement
at this point in his career.Will see what he does in Arizona.
He still has some pop. Ithink a lot of people were concerned about
that kind of tailing off a littlebit last year, but he still had
almost one hundred RBIs the guy couldhit in the clutch, big clubhouse guy.

(12:54):
I just think there's way more positivesthan negatives to his game, and
I would have loved to see himone more year in a Mariager's. So
I'm gonna go thumbs down on thisone. I'm going to just slightly disagree
with you, Okay, I'm gonnago thumbs up. On this, But
there's an explanation that has to begiven because I think Arizona this is a
real steal for them. Yeah,I guess a big win for Arizona.
They get to add that guy totheir clubhouse and all the momentum that they

(13:18):
have, and that back to themiddle of their order, and they're not
gonna have to hit him third.They can hit him six to sixth where
he belongs, fifth or sixth wherehe belongs, and then add him to
that good vibe that they've got goingdown in Phoenix right now. So I
think it's a great trade for Arizona. Here's why I'm going to give it
a thumbs up for the Mariners.Okay, we have to accept the fact

(13:39):
that ownership, we don't have tolike it, right, but we have
to understand the restrictions that Justin andCherry were under in terms this offseason of
adding to this team. Suarez wasmoved because they were trying to create a
lineup that made more contact, andthey also had financial restrictions. If you

(14:03):
don't move this deal, you don'tsign Mitch Garver, or maybe you sign
Mitch Garver, but you don't tradefor Polanco. Those are the financial restrictions
that they're under, and so movingforward, right now, we don't have
a Cody Bellinger hitting third. Sothe protection for Julio was going to be
Gino with two hundred strikeouts and alsoa double play threat versus a Polonco or

(14:30):
a Suarez. Excuse me, aPolanco or a Garver, a healthy version
of Polanco or or Garver. I'lltake either one of them at this stage
in their careers over Gino. AndI think from a lineup standpoint, which
is the weakness that that gives Juliobetter protection, And I think that's more
important than the gold glove defense orthe likability with the fan base. Yeah,

(14:56):
I think that that's more. Thisteam needed a mis of the order
bat or two more so than theyneeded good vibes only Okay, yeah,
I mean I could see what you'resaying on there. As the famous Ian
Ferness would say, I'll dance withyou on that. I'll dance with you
on that. I still I havea soft spot for Geno. I would
have loved to seeing in a Mariner'suniform. He's one of my favorite guys,
you know, kind of being aroundthe clubhouse pretty often. Last year

(15:16):
he was always awesome to me.So and I'm interested to seeing this more
so than really anything in spring training. Is the mood you can tell.
I'm telling you, I've covered thisenough now. You can tell the mood
the moment, oh you set upyour equipment. You can tell the mood
of the entire spring training that firstmorning that we're there. And I'm curious

(15:39):
to see. We talked about thison Thursday morning on Chuck and Buck.
I'm curious to see and I'm gonnabe able to tell by JP Crawford.
Okay, that's the only person I'mgoing to need to see. Got it
is JP Crawford because this organization iskind of tone deaf to the locker room
and the clubhouse above. Yes itis. Yeah, and yet somehow at

(16:03):
the end of the season, theyalways look like they're rowing in the same
direction. They look like they likeeach other, they look like they love
playing baseball, and looks like they'refighting tooth and nail for Seattle. See.
That's that's my prediction. I guessyou could say for what the vibes
are going to be like, Ithink it's going to be a last year
sucked. We are not letting thathappen again. We're going to work our
tails off to not make that happen. Not even an angry, pissed off,

(16:26):
like oh, our front office suckssort of vibe. But I think
like we're going to do everything wecan to make sure last year doesn't happen
again, and like we're coming backstronger than ever. And I'm that's one
other reason I'm pretty hype going intothis year. Well, but that's just
it. Like I have also beenthere where they started the rebuild and Kyle
Seeger's entire demeanor change, yep,and he didn't want to be there,

(16:48):
and he remained a good teammate,but he did not want to be in
the organization. He did not wantto be around media, he did not
want to be around manager, generalmanager. He just wanted to be around
the players. That's all I wanted. I was there to watch Marco Gonzalez
go from the most likable guy incamp to the most sullen, pissy pants
McGee character that you've ever seen inyour entire life. And so if that

(17:15):
happens to Mariner veterans who don't feelthey have the support of ownership and management,
then that sort of this sort ofoff season and losing Geno getting back
to the point could grind JP's enthusiasmdown. Yeah, I agree with that.
So when I see JP, I'mgoing to know what kind of camp

(17:37):
this is gonna be, because ifhe still has the it's okay, I'm
the leader. We got a mission. Let's go. If he still has
that, then the leadership, you'renot gonna miss that. Gino Schwarrez present,
it's presence. It's gonna be JPleading, Julio stepping up and more
of a leadership role, cal steppingup, more in a leadership role,

(17:57):
and let's go. I'm downb forthat. Yeah, I'm done for that.
All right, let's go to athird one, uh Kalnik White and
Marco for Jackson Kohar and minor leaguer. I think it was Connor Phillips.
I just wrote Phillips down from theAtlanta Braves thumbs up, thumbs down.
Um, this is a tough onefor me. I if you in terms

(18:23):
of value, and if you putit in the scope as you mentioned earlier
with the Juhinho Suarez trade of youknow you have these financial restrictions, then
I can see the thought behind it, and I more understand this one than
the Geno one, to be honest, because you are giving up some big

(18:45):
salaries that I don't think are worthit. I think Geno could argue you
he was giving that value back interms of what he was bringing to the
team. Marco and Evan White werenot. So in order to offset that,
you have to give up something inreturn. And kel Nick, look,
as much as I think he's gonnarake going into Atlanta, I'm kind

(19:07):
of scared that he's gonna turn intoa star down there. I don't think
it was gonna work out here.I really don't. He seemed to don't.
There's probably some truth to that.Yeah, so I it just he
hadn't discounted he had one and ahalf good months last year. Other than
that, he was a pretty averagemajor league hitter. Uh, plays good,

(19:30):
defense, runs hard, you know, plays hard, all that fun
stuff. I just think this oneis more understandable. I'm still gonna give
it a thumbs down because of whatKelnick could be and I don't wanna,
as you mentioned, except that thesefinancial restrictions are upon us. But knowing
that I can understand this one alittle bit more. Yeah, I again,

(19:51):
I'm gonna slightly disagree with you,but I am gonna go thumbs down,
okay from because and I want totalk out of both sides of my
mouth. They created some space financiallyto work with and it probably is the
reason we have garbage for example.But to just what this trade symbolizes.

(20:11):
To me, this trade, morethan anything else, symbolizes ownership renegged and
the fact that every team has toeat a couple bad contracts. So,
I mean, Marcos was getting readyto expire and Evan Whitez is nothing that
should be considered some heavy stone weighingyou down. And so to me,

(20:33):
this symbolizes because Gino's on the tailend of his career and you're trying to
cut down on Striker, Jared's probablyjust getting started, that's true. And
so to me, the idea thatthere was so much hype around this young
man with all of his quirks andall of his flaws that he has,
there was so much hype around him. And to lose him in the organization,

(21:00):
the guy you essentially got for EdwinDiaz, and to lose him from
the organization in a money drop,I mean, there's nothing more than that.
No, this is just end ofthem are this is this is a
money drop right here. Uh.And to lose Jared Kelnick to have to
include him in a deal just soyou'll take two bad contracts. Boy,

(21:22):
that that sits sits wrong with Yeah, Like I said, I still probably
put thumbs down for this one.My question to you is if you were
to I kind of understand by theway you answered, but just for for
thought about it, if you ifyou only had to make one of those
last two moves, would you makethe Geno one and not the Kellenic one?
Yes, Okay, I'd probably bethe opposite. I think because as

(21:44):
you mentioned with Evan White, Ginoonly had one year left as well,
So in terms of bad money,like you could at least if give him
one more year to maybe bounce backoffensively. Uh. You know, I
don't know. He probably won't everchange his style in terms of striking out
a lot and then going for thehome run ball. But I still think
he could have given you more valuethis year. Kellenick, you don't know

(22:06):
what's going to happen with I honestlythink he's a complete unknown. I still
trust that he's going to be agood baseball player, especially in a good
situation down at Atlanta. But here, I just didn't you don't know what
he's going to give you. Yeah, I don't think Gino Suarez was a
part of this team's future, Okay, certainly beyond this year where Jared Keelnick
was supposed to be arguably the future. Yeah that's fair. Yeah, I

(22:26):
mean it wasn't that long ago wherehe was the top prospect, not Julio
Okay. So that's why it justto me that is emblematic. It represents
this wonky offseason and what ownership did, okay to the potential to grow this
team. So I don't like it, and I do think we're gonna have
a lot of uncomfortable summer nights watchingAtlanta Braves highlights. I sure I agree

(22:48):
with you on that one. He'sbeing added to one of the best offensive
teams in baseball history. And oh, by the way, you don't have
to carry squat buddy, just fitin. Yep, you got no pressure
whatsoever because Michael Harris hits behind youin the lineup. Yeah, he'll clean
up whatever you can. I wasgonna say he could be the next Michael
Harris because kind of lefty contact outfielderkind of didn't expect much from him,

(23:11):
comes into a good situation where he'sjust expected to do anything. You have,
just no expectations, go out andhit the baseball, and he thrived
the situation. Let's go to Raleighfor Cabbyero the Tampa Bay Rays, and
I'm assuming that Rayley is the replacementfor Jared Kalnick in left field at this

(23:33):
stage. Thumbs up or thumbs down? Easy thumbs up for me. I
love Cabby. He's fun to watchthe plate with how much he loves to
toy with pitchers, and he's greatto watch in the bass pass. While
he maybe made a little too muchmistakes, I liked his aggressiveness and I
want to see more of that fromthis team this year, which is something
I'm actually curious about. But youneeded to replace Jared Kalnick. Luke Raley
had a great year last year.As concerned as I am that that was

(23:55):
a flash in the pan, it'sstill better than what you were giving up.
So I give this a big thumbsup. Yeah, I give it
a thumbs up as well. Andthis is just the art of the trade.
Yeah, more so than player forplayer, you have depth, You
have you still have too many utilityplayers. Yeah, Cabiero isn't some I
mean, he was a rookie,but he was a twenty six year old

(24:18):
rookie who plays middle endfield. Yeahokay, so this isn't somebody that was
banging down the door low ceiling atthe plate for the Major Now you can
make same argument with Rayley. He'sa twenty nine year old and he just
had his first full season in themajors. But you're thin at corner outfield
and guys that can mash, you'rethick at middle infielders who are utility guys.

(24:41):
Yeah, that you're not expecting toplay every day. So if you
can move one of those pieces forsomething you don't have, then I like
it. I also just liked whatI saw out of Raleigh last year.
He had an extra base hit inevery seven point nine at bats last year.

(25:02):
Wow, Just to put that inperspective, Julio's was one and every
nine point two. Yeah, okay, So this is somebody that when he
was in the lineup, mashed andhe was. He's not ineffective against lefties,
No, I think he actually hada better batting average against lefties.
He just didn't hit with as muchpower, but considering how few lefties he
was allowed to face, there's achance. And I don't I think Dylan

(25:23):
Moore and Luke Rayley just to warneverybody that hates platoons, it's probably gonna
be your platoon to start the season. But I do believe they're gonna give
him opportunities to win the job outright. So to add a piece that you
don't have and what you have togive up is a piece that you have
excess of. Yeah, that's theart of the trade, I think.

(25:45):
I mean, Tampa Bay's really excitedabout this for themselves. Yeah, they
are. They've had a lot ofinjuries. Taylor Wallas is going to start
the season on the il Wander Francoyou never know if he's even gonna play
again. So they had their middleind field rocked by injuries and other things
the last calendar year. And soI mean they're they're actually have big expectations
for Cabriero. He's probably going tostart for them at shortstop, just like

(26:08):
Raley might not have had the playingtime he would have had in Tampa Bay,
but in Seattle. He looks tome like, you're starting left fielder
and hitting probably sixth in the order. Yeah, and the Rays loved those
utility guys. They always seem todo well down there, So who knows,
Kabby might be a really good playerdown in Tampa as well. But
I still give it a thumbs up. We needed Ralely another lefty, yes,

(26:30):
yeah, yeah, yeah, I'mwith you on that. And I
wouldn't be surprised if he plays everyday, yeah, because he made some
bonead mistakes on the bass pass,but never just stealing. He was almost
automatic stealing Cabriero this past year.Yeah. Yeah, Oh, it wouldn't
surprise me if he goes like fifteenand fifty. Oh, that'd be awesome
this year for the for the guyI really am. But Raley is somebody

(26:52):
that steals bases too, though,so with more playing time a twenty season
I don't think is out of thequestion for him. All right, let's
go to the other corner outfield position, which looks like now on paper,
to be filled by Mitch Hanniger.You got Mitch Hanneger Anthony D. Sclafani
from the San Francisco Giants for RobbieRay. Thumbs up or thumbs down,

(27:17):
Thumbs down For me, I waspretty high and still am on Robbie Ray,
even though he probably wouldn't play forthe first half of or not probably
he wouldn't play for the first halfof this year. And you know,
Mitch, I love Mitch. Ilove watching him play. He had a
couple of really good years here inSeattle, showed he could be a all
star caliber hitter and play a gooddefense. But the injuries really scare me

(27:41):
and and a lot people. Alot of people would think that Robbie Ray,
oh, he's been out for overa year. He should his injury
should scare you too. That's nothow Tommy John works. People come back
better. They they come back rarelywith any issues, and like it's never
something to worry about. Once youget back from that surgery and full recover,
you're usually just as good as youwere before, sometimes even better.

(28:03):
As we said, uh so,it's something where once he was back,
he was going to be the RobbieRay that we've seen. And a lot
of people just like have the tasteof Robbie Ray from the playoffs, realize
that he was actually a good pitcherfor us in twenty twenty two. So
I was really looking forward to theseason last year, I think he could
have bounced back into a Cy Youngcaliber pitcher. But yeah, and just

(28:27):
kind of getting giving up that possibility. I get he was had a pretty
big contract, but just to kindof maybe fill a hole with someone who
really hasn't been healthy in two yearsis a tough one for me. So
I'm gonna I'm gonna give this oneof thumbs down. I give it a
thumbs down as well. I don'tlike this trade at all. I mean,

(28:48):
I got Tom Verducci telling me thathe feels Robbie Ray can rebound and
become a sy Award winner. AndTom Verducci, I think is one of
the best out there and analyzing thissport. And so when he's telling me
that a guy has the potential torecapture Cy Young form, and we are
getting in return a seventeen million dollarcorner outfielder that was on the injured list

(29:15):
for three different injuries last year andthen missed the previous season as well,
most of it because he rolled hisankle in the batter's box. I mean,
we're talking soft tissue injuries is whatthat he has suffered, and he
hasn't played at all the last years. I said this before on the podcast,
I've said it on Chuck and Buck. I just don't have any faith
that he can stay healthy. Andit feels very much to me like the

(29:38):
type of trade that Mariner fans shouldbe angry about, and yet this is
the one they seem to like themost. This is to me, the
Mariner's trying to distract you by dumpinga little salary and bringing back a familiar
face that you all love and tryingto play it off like progress really worried

(30:00):
that your outfield right field position isgoing to be manned most days by Dominic
Canzone and I don't feel great aboutthat. Yeah, I don't really either.
I know they like him. I'mstill interested to see what he can
bring. This is still this wouldbe I don't know how rookie years are
considered, because he wasn't up forthe full year last year. Canzone with

(30:23):
Arizona before he came here, sothis would still be technically his rookie year
this year. So I still thinkhe can improve. We'll see what happens.
He showed some flashes, but yeah, Mitch Haniger, in terms of
giving up versus getting back, Ithink we gave up more than we got
back. Again, A lot ofit is because of the money, even
though the money ends up being prettyeven at towards the end of it.

(30:44):
So true. Yeah, it's justkind of a weird situation there. I
don't know why they were so keenon doing that when you weren't even gaining
any salary space. So that one'sa weird one to me, all right.
So then you flipped the Sclafani alongwith Justin Topa, Gabriel Gonzalez and
cash for Jorge Polonko. Thumbs up, thumbs down. My favorite trade of
the offseason. This is a big, big, big thumbs up for me.

(31:07):
You know, we've going into theoffseason, you and I were big
on Polonco, knowing that not knowing, but assuming he would be available from
Minnesota. I really liked what Isaw from him down the stretch and in
the playoffs last year. He showedto be a guy that kind of steps
up in the big moment. Hewas hitting what third for them a lot

(31:30):
of the year last year. Secondhalf, yeah, and in the playoffs.
And I know there's concerns about hisdefense, but I didn't really see
anything like I didn't watch Minnesota Twinsbaseball every day, but from what I
was, you know, kind ofjust paying attention to and then the big
games in the playoffs obviously, heseemed to be a guy who can hold
down that spot. So we've hadtrouble at second base for the past what

(31:52):
six years, we haven't really hada good second basement a long time.
I get that they're hard to find. This is one of the good ones
in baseball, I think, Andfor some reason, I'm not an injury
analyst, I get a weird feelingthat his injury history quote unquote is not
something to be super concerned about.It's a oh, he plays really hard,

(32:13):
some fluke injuries, and then hetries to come back too soon because
he plays really hard. I wantthat guy in our team, yeah,
and I think they'll do. They'llhave measures to protect them from himself as
well. They certainly have enough secondbase depth on this team. They got
like six guys that can play secondbase, and that will allow Polanco to
DH on occasion, I would hope, and then give him days off,

(32:35):
which you do have to manage,especially veteran players who have a little bit
of injury history. I like thisone as well. Now I think that
maybe, and you know, intime, you look at this as a
Minnesota win. I mean, you'retalking about a guy who has just one
year left on his contract unless youpick up the option, and you gave
up a top one hundred prospect inthe sport. But I want this organization

(33:01):
to be making win now moves.This and this is a win now move.
I mean, now, when youtake when you strip Gabriel Gonzales from
it, who's not even gonna beon a major league team for another three
four years, When you strip himfrom it, you got a number three
hitter for a seventh inning reliever anda number six starter. Yeah. Yeah,

(33:24):
of course you're making this trade.So I do like this trade,
and I don't want to overplay this. I know there might probably be somebody
I think I probably would be myselfunder normal circumstances if the name Perry Hill
just kept being mentioned, like,oh, everybody's got an infield coach.
Yeah, I'd probably roll my eyesif I didn't see it firsthand. Yeah,

(33:45):
but you're talking about somebody that tookGino Suarez, a veteran. He
didn't take him at age twenty three. He took him at age thirty thirty
one, and he went from beingbad below average, yeah, too good
and one spring training Okay, yeah, so I watched him take Ty France,

(34:09):
who's built like a tater tot forgoodness, say, the last guy
that should be playing a gold Glovecaliber first base. And even though he's
not quite gold glove, he's prettygood. He's above average for sure.
Yeah, and he turned Ty Francea third basement and a second baseman while
the season was going on, intoa gold Glove caliber or close to it

(34:31):
first base. And so if PerryHill can work Wonders and Jre Polanco gets
a spring training with him, Idon't think he's ever going to become Roberto
Alomar, but he will be steady. And then when you think about having
an offensive first second baseman that atleast doesn't boot the ball at second base,

(34:55):
we want that. Yeah, andI'm off on a weird tan here.
I'll be softy for just a second. Oh, you can only have
one, okay, Perry Hill.Pete Woodworth, Oh, Pete Woodworth.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that guy works wonders with
so many different pieces. But yeah, no, I'm happy. I don't
have to make that decision. Yeah, and those are two great coaches to

(35:17):
have on the rosseel well, speakingof him, yeah, I can't wait
to see what he does with GregorySantos. Yeah, so that's our last
one, Okay, is our lasttrade that we were going to discuss for
Zach DeLoach pre Lander, Baroa anda draft pick, which you don't see
those traded a lot in Major LeagueBaseball. We've seen it happen a couple
of times this offseason. So withthe Chicago White Sox, Gregory Santos comes

(35:38):
over thumbs up, thumbs down,thumbs up. I'm excited to see what
we get into Gregory Santos. Iknow he has the caliber to be a
back in bullpen guy. Still onlytwenty four, young guy. Seems like
he could be someone that is inthat back into the bullpen with Matt Brash
and Andres Munos for a long periodof time. Three good guys that spot

(36:00):
is really really important to have.I think we saw what two could do
and also the limits that having justtwo guys in the back end of your
bullpen could bring. Yeah, peopleare getting tired down the stretch, especially
after the trade of Seawald, soyou kind of I'm not saying you replace
Paul Sewald with Greg Risantos, butin terms of just a body and someone
who can be in that role,it helps recuperate a lot of that value

(36:22):
and someone who's a lot younger andprobably has better stuff. So I have
big thumbs up for me and Iwant I really can't wait to see what
he brings with Pete Woodworth. Yeah, I'm thumbs up on this one as
well. And by the way,they've already mentioned that, you know,
he's a little bit delayed. Hehad an injury last season that he's still
recovering from, so that was notunexpected. So he hasn't had a setback

(36:45):
on day number one at spring training. They already knew that coming in,
got it. So he's a littlebit behind schedule. Hopefully he's ready by
opening day. But you're getting controlof a twenty four year old relief pitcher
with nasty stuff for the next fiveyears. I mean, this is an
analytics monster here, somebody whose surfacestats are solid, but the analytics underlying

(37:09):
stats where they're projecting how good thisguy could be. And when he starts
missing bats with one hundred mile perhour fastball and a ninety two mile per
hour slider, which, believe itor not, he hasn't missed many bats
that way, but nobody can squarehim up, nobody can make hard contact
against him. So it's a reallystrange thing. But it's analytics way of

(37:30):
telling you the best is yet tocome and for them to get what I
think is going to end up beinga repeatable back of the bullpen arm for
the next five years. That isgold in today's sport. And again,
you're trading from depth. You're basicallytrading a guy in pre Lander Barroa who

(37:51):
could be Gregory Santos. You alreadyyou know you have Gregor Santos, and
your trading Zach DeLoach, who Ithink just was going to fall into that
mix with Canzone and Marlowe and Trommel, same guy trying to make a roster
spot. Maybe Deloche goes on tohave a solid career. Yeah, but
I think you again are trading fromdepth to get a piece that you need

(38:13):
to win now. So I'm thumbsup on that. Yeah, And just
kind of overlooking the timing of allthese moves, it seems like they really
were strategic in front loading a lotof the salary dumps, and then like,
oh, towards the end of theoff season, Okay, now here
we go. Here are the piecesthat everyone's going to get excited about,
so everyone can get excited going intothis year. And it got me.

(38:34):
It got me. So all ofthe tough, tough ones of the off
season, the tough to taste,I guess leaves a tough taste in your
mouth moves were the early part ofthe off season, and then kind of
towards the end and getting closer tospring training was when they made moves that
I think more people are excited about. So, yeah, and you had
four thumbs up, three thumbs down, I believe, yes, I had

(38:55):
five and two. Yeah. ButI will say this, I mean,
these can be argued either way.I don't think that they I don't think
that they ran away with any ofthese trades, and I don't think that
they got fleeced on anything. Yeah, but just from a philosophical standpoint,

(39:15):
it just felt like an off seasonof trying to win now, which is
what they should be doing, andthe trading deadline did not feel the organization
did not feel like they were inthat mode at the trading deadline, and
maybe there's a slight mark argument forthe softer than expected off season from a

(39:35):
year ago. This felt more likea yes, we've been handed a raw
deal. Our owners have taken awaywhat we thought we were going to be
able to do to add to payroll, so we had to get really creative.
But the majority of these moves,even though you had to move some
pieces around to make it happen,especially those back three, the Raley,
Polanco Santos, those are all winnow moves anytime, And I actually if

(40:01):
you throw in Garver to that too, like I love that deal as a
rare free agent signing exactly the rarefree agent hitter signing. The Mariners have
made so at someone who you expectand hope can be an everyday DH,
which again we haven't seen in awhile since Nelson Cruz, so I'm excited

(40:22):
for what he can bring as well. And then overall, I guess we
can get into this. How doyou grade the offseason? If it were
to finish and this is your teamfor next year, what grade would you
give it at this point? Well, based on what I just said,
nothing great, certainly not an aI'm kind of torn between C plus and

(40:43):
B minus. Now I was gonnasay BE minus myself, Like C is
average, it's a little better thanaverage. Yeah, But again this is
coming from a place of this team. I believe they grossly underachieved last year.
This was a playoff roster last yearand they just did not get it
done. Yeah. So the startingpitching, nothing, no harm has come

(41:05):
to the five guys that should haveand that's a positive. Pitched you into
the playoffs a year ago and theydidn't. So most of my enthusiasm for
this upcoming season is based off ofthose five dudes, agreed and Julio.
Yeah, okay, So I don'tthink that they really had to get significantly

(41:28):
better on paper. So I thinkthat they slightly got better, and I
think they became more balanced, andI think the roster is deeper because of
this offseason, which I think shouldmake them a better team than what they
ended up being a year ago.But in terms of the moves collectively,
even though I gave five thumbs upand two thumbs down, I don't give

(41:49):
it more than a C plus.Okay, all right, that's weird because
I was four and three, ButI give it a B minus. I
just think. But I think thePolanco trade and the Raley trade in this
Antos trade are big, big pluses. Like I think those are things,
like you said, win now movesthat you needed to do. Okay,
so let's get into a little bitof predictions here. I don't know if
you've made your official prediction on theChuck and Buck Show from the man is

(42:13):
going into twenty twenty four. Ineed a full I need a full week
at spring training and change before Iget there. But I'm pretty close,
Okay. So what kind of vibeare you thinking? How many wins do
we make the playoffs, do wewin the division? How far are we
going to? How far are wegoing to the playoffs? I told you
last episode my window, my tenwin window is eighty four to ninety four.

(42:36):
Okay. I think they are aplayoff team. Okay, Okay,
So that's an average of eighty nine, which puts you're right there at fifty
four pers Like how that worked outa little bit above that. Eighty eight
wins is fifty four per But Ido think it's a playoff team. I
was just looking at the astros Alineup, okay, and I really did

(42:57):
want to look at it as they'refalling right another year default they're still so
very good. I mean, it'shard to believe that this team's better than
that team. So I will bepicking the Astros to win the American League
West. But if you've listened tome at all on the radio show or
on the podcast, you know howflucish I think it was that the Texas

(43:21):
Rangers won the World Series a yearago. They had a very overachieving season.
I still think they're dangerous. Thelineup obviously has some really scary pieces
in it, but they were anotherorganization that was talking real big about how
they were going to add all thatWorld Series money and that increased revenue.

(43:42):
They had television issues as well,television deal issues as well. They've really
not added this offseason. They've addedTyler Mayley, the pitcher formerly of the
Reds. That's the only thing theyhave added in the entire offseason. Yep.
Now I lost Jordan Montgomery too.Yeah. I mean maybe they signed
Snell and Montgomery this upcoming week,who knows, and that that changes the

(44:06):
entire conversation. But right now,I think the Mariners are a better team
than the Texas Rangers. On paper. All Right, I'm going to be
someone that I haven't been in along time. I think the Mariners are
gonna win the American League last thisyear. Wow. Maybe it's wishful thinking,
but what you said about the Astros, I actually think I believe a

(44:28):
little bit. It just seems likethey and I think a lot of Mariners
fans and you know, analysts,kind of believe that this is how we
should build our baseball team around thepitching, and that's kind of what has
made them win and I think that'swhere their biggest question mark is going into
next year. I've always liked theirlineup. They can hit, but the

(44:49):
thing that made them elite was theirstarting pitching, and it seems like that,
specially towards the end of last year, has fallen off a pretty decent
amount. They can they can outhit their issues a lot of the time,
but the thing that makes them anelite baseball team that's so hard to
knock out of the playoffs is theirstarting pitching, which I think has a
big question mark. Again, wecould see a move being made. I

(45:12):
know they got Josh Hater, whoadds to their bullpen, which is great.
He's one of my favorite bullpen arms, but even he's had some ups
and downs the last couple of years. He's not been the for sure thing
that he was In Milwaukee. Lancemccullochs junior is a big question mark.
He's kind of their main guy.He probably comes back fine this year,
but you never know. With thekind of injury he had. Franme ra

(45:35):
Valdez never really convince me he's beenvery good, but he he did finally
show in the second half of lastseason. A few warts in this game.
I love Javier Yeah, and ChristianXavier he's like one of my favorite
guys on that team. And thenand then ver Lander for a full season,
who they didn't have a year ago, and he really, I mean

(45:55):
he's showing a little bit of age. Yeah he's old, he's over forty
years old now, but he stilllooks ace like for them, So an
improved bullpen was still and then HunterBrown, who a lot of people compared
to a young Verlander. Yeah,as the first season out from underneath his
belt, I think they're gonna havea good starting rotation, a better bullpen.

(46:21):
Yeah, and the lineup is stilljust better than the marriage. Yeah,
it is, it is. Iagree with you on that. Kyle
Tucker, Rodon Alvarez Chas McCormick's insanelyunderrated. I think in a free agent
year, Yeah, Bragman's gonna God. I hate watching him bad against the
Mariners. He always seems to killus. Yeah. Yeah, I agree

(46:42):
with you that the lineup's better,but I still think the Mariners pitching staff
is superior. I agree, andI think if in a playoff, in
a postseason series, let's go bringit on. Yeah. So I did
that over one hundred and sixty twogames, Yeah, Houston. But yeah,
I still think the Mariners can canoutdo them, and I maybe it
comes down to the last couple ofgames of the season. I haven't even

(47:04):
looked at the schedule to see whatit looks like if we play them in
the last week or so. Weprobably do. But I think we can
hang with them. I really do. And I think that just unlike last
year, where we kind of thelast ten games we could have won the
division, we faltered. I thinkwe step up and do it this year.
Yeah. Well, I think there'sa better chance to win the World
Series than the American League West.That's honestly not that far fetched if you

(47:30):
think about it, like, youjust have to get into the playoffs and
then the Mariners pitching stack can carrythem to that point, get into the
dance, like that's what everybody's like. Even if they are the third best
team in the American League West,all you gotta do is be one of
the best seven. That's it.And yeah, and I'm not third place.
Who cares? Think the Arizona Diamondbacksworried that they fell forty games by
in the Los Angeles Dodgers this pastyear, and they certainly didn't play like

(47:52):
that. No, they didn't.I still put some stock into winning the
division because I think those home playeroff games are a big, big thing,
and especially if you get a buye, not having to play the wildcard
series would be incredible. Resting yourguys setting up that starting rotation the way
you want it to be, andnow I get you can I would in

(48:12):
theory that sounds like it should bean advantage. It hasn't proven to be
since they've gone to it. It'sstraight. I mean Baltimore got toasted,
right, you know after one hundredwins season. I just think that the
Mariners with I hate to throw thisword out there, the pressure that is
under them to perform, and theteam that the only team that hasn't made
the World Series. I think ifyou start, you know, getting to

(48:36):
the point where, oh, wewin this division, and then you can
kind of set yourself up for abig playoff run, I think that goes
a long way in terms of justthe vibes going into the offseason versus just
like sneaking into the wildcard. Now. I get Mariners at any picture,
any starter, they throw out theirhomer road, they can, they can
win almost every baseball game they playagainst or play. But I still think

(48:59):
if you say yourself up and havea killer regular season, the town gets
behind you, you have home playoffgames like that would be a huge step
in the right direction for me forthe Mariners, and I think they ride
that momentum to the World Series.If that's the way that it goes out.
Yeah, well, I think there'sa shot. I think there is

(49:21):
a shot. And one other thingthough we probably has gone a little overlooked.
Yeah, and maybe this is adeeper conversation in the next episode.
Yep, but we did sacrifice somespeed on this team. Yeah, And
we did sacrifice some defense on thisteam we did to build this more balanced
lineup. I mean we're weaker defensivelyat third JP since his gold Glove has

(49:42):
analytically gotten worse every single year.Yeah, that's a weird one to me.
He hasn't looked like I mean,just eye tests wise, he hasn't
looked like he's gotten worse. Butyou're right, the analytics do not like
him. They do not like himat all. Second base, I don't
think that we went down, butthen again, it wasn't very good a
year ago. Left field were worsedefensively without kell Nick out there. I

(50:02):
haven't seen a lot of Raleigh,but Kelnick was good defensively, and Hanneger
was, by the way, nevergood defensively in right field, even though
some people are convinced. So Idoubt he got better since he's gotten two
years older and just not playing injuries. Yeah, the last time he was
here, now, Cal last yearlooked like the best defensive catcher in the

(50:23):
sport in the last month of theyear, So you could see some upgrade
there, and I expect Julio toget a little bit better as well in
center field. But I think thisis a weaker team defensively and beyond Julio,
who even steals bases Like Luke Raley'syour second most likely based dealer and
Anders. I know how much tyFrance drives you nuts, but imagine a

(50:45):
middle order where you're looking at Garver, Cal and Thie potentially hitting back to
back to back. That's a slowthreesome. Yeah. Plus I got I
didn't think about that because you know, we talked to about how this team
is more built to kind of manufactureruns, get on base, lots of

(51:06):
contact usually kind of what goes handin hand in that is a little bit
of speed on the bass pass.Uh. So it's pretty slow team.
Yeah, it is at this point. I know you still got Haggarty on
the bench, you still got Demo. It's a great point. And they're
going to I think they're going touse the f out of these guys as
pinch runners this year. Yeah.I'll be surprised at all about it.
And I want to see that.I want to, like, I not

(51:29):
even just from a fans like excitementperspective, because I think they did ah
a poll like before the beginning oflast year. I'm on the most exciting
plays in Baseball Number one, wasa triple overall home run over triple is
more exciting because you're actually watching theguy go all the way to third.
Number two is a stolen base.Uh, and then number we do Number

(51:52):
three years made a good decision year, and I think we should lean into
that a little bit. The lookhow much the Diamondbacks use that towards the
of the playoffs last year. Soyeah, I really think that that will
be a big, big piece towhat we do. If you know they
side to lean in that direction,well, I'm gonna find out it's spring
training next week. I'll ask Scottabout that. But my gut is,

(52:15):
don't be surprised if you don't seereally early substitutions, Like if a Mitch
Garver gets a hit in the sixthinning to lead off the inning. Don't
be surprised if you don't see SamHaggerty at that moment. Yeah, get
out his sliding gloves and head outto first base, and then you live
with it. Like I said,I think this is a deeper roster than
what you've had in the past.I mean, Mitch Garver might not get

(52:37):
up and then I plus you're gonnatry to protect him. So the less
he's running the base paths full speed. Yeah, the safer you can keep
him. I think that they willaggressively use this bench this upcoming year.
I'm all for that. So hopefullythat means, you know, more excitement
for the fans and getting some morestolen bases. All right, man,

(52:58):
we've done it again. Another episodeof Stove is in the books. Like
I said, we'll continue to dothis as long as there are moves to
be made and there are regular seasongames being played. Then Stove continues the
Mariners off season with anders Hurst andmyself. Thanks for listening. We'll talk
to you again next week.