Ohtani signs with Dodgers, What's next for M's?

Shohei Ohtani has chosen the Dodgers, so Chuck and Anders vent about the deal and what could be next for the Mariners. Who's directive is it to cut payroll? Ownership or Jerry? Can the Mariners still build a World Series roster with their financial restrictions?

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Stove. What a kind of nameis that? So take them all you,
so take them all? All Right, it's a time for another episode

(00:24):
of Stove our Mariners off season podcast. My name is Chuck Powell. Anders
Hurst is your host. So we'regoing to give you forty five minutes to
three days worth of Mariners analysis threedays. Yeah, it's one of those
things. Uh, Andrews really gotto cut myself off. I could kind
of talk about this stuff all daylong. Yeah, or three days long.

(00:45):
I guess that's what are you doingfor three days? Seventy two hours?
Let's do it. I'm down,okay, starting now. It's Geinness
World record for the longest podcast everrecorded. No, I should try that.
Yeah, that's how we get onthe map. Yeah that's true.
We just go seventy two hours ofMariner's analysis straight on a podcast. You
know. Me and Chris kidd area producer for the ten to one show,

(01:07):
talked about this. We could,I swear we could do that.
We could break the record if itwas Hum Millin and Mike Benton together,
just Mike saying some very intricate hockeystuff. Hugh asking about that, being
like, oh, that's similar tofootball. And then this is what this
would happen. They could go onfor days. You're telling you you're right,
You're absolutely right. I don't eventhink you're exaggerated. No, I'm

(01:30):
not. I think we could beat the third day mark and you would
be angry that we're cutting him offand going to break. Yeah. I
I totally that's happened before a point, and he's got one more point to
make. Yeah. Yeah, becauseI can't let it go, hold on,
hold on? Do I have timefor a story? No, it's

(01:52):
great. I love those guys.They're awesome at radio, but they they
they love to take their time withtheir with their air time. Let's put
it that way. Uh huh.Well, we both have the gift for
gab. So here we say it'stime for a Stove podcast. And I
don't think everything's gonna be all veryfun to discuss today, but yeah,
we'll have some fun along the way. Yeah. I always have fun talking

(02:15):
about off season baseball, good orbad in terms of the scope for the
Mariners. But you know, we'vehad this sort of tradition routine. I
guess you could say, with howbaseball players operate with starting with the biggest
offseason story and probably the last tenyears for baseball at least, and that's
the Shoho Tawny sweepstakes, and theyhave come to an end as he signed

(02:39):
a ten year, seven hundred milliondollar dealers say seven. I said seven,
seven hundred million dollar deal to theLos Angeles Dodgers, the place where
most people thought he would go.And then everyone was speculating he would go
to Toronto. And then there waspeople saying he was on the plane Toronto

(03:00):
to go there. And then andthen all of a sudden, the next
day he signs with the Dodgers.They cut a little bit of heat.
John Palmer Rose, Oh, oh, I'm sure he did. Yeah,
for forgiving the wrong because there werepeople that flocked to bet on the Blue
Jays, trying to take advantage ofthe line before it moved. There were
people lined up in the airport tosee Otani as he got out because they

(03:23):
tracked which plane it was from LAto Toronto. Yeah, there's a bunch
of stuff going on. That's nota story you can get wrong. I
don't think. I wouldn't think so, especially since you waited so long and
you were so desperate and for information. You just don't create it, but
I mean, what a whirlwind itwas. And I'm going to start this,
is this a Mariner's podcast ahead.I don't regret one bit the tactic

(03:47):
that I personally took, that thispodcast took, that my radio show took.
I never thought the Mariners were goingto get show. Hey Otani.
I did open up the window thatthere was a chance, but I took
it all the way till last Friday, and of course he signed over the
weekend of keeping that door open.I don't regret that at all. No,

(04:09):
until I know for sure we shouldhave been entertaining the possibility of showhy
and what it would have taken toget him and what he could have done
to change the organization, and theanalysis afterwards should have been about maybe a
missed opportunity and how sad you werethat it didn't happen. So I don't
regret the coverage that I personally providedon this at all. I think it's

(04:34):
such a unique circumstance, and Ithink every single organization in baseball, should
fan base and baseball should have atleast had some fun entertaining this. Really,
and the fact that the Mariners werein the conversation. We're always on
the Otani watch list stories that werewritten both locally and nationally. I think

(04:59):
we were obligated to take it allthe way to the end, even though
we knew it likely, very veryvery likely wasn't going to happen. Yeah,
no, I completely agree. Iwent into the off season kind of
in the same boat where I didn'texpect it to happen, and then I
was like, oh, there's aslight chance that, you know, something
magical could happen with Shoe coming toSeattle. And then once the stories died

(05:19):
down, we just didn't hear anything, and there was just a bunch of
speculation left and right. I kindof got a weird feeling that maybe he
was going to do something that noone really expected him to do, and
in a way that happened. Notto the team he went, but the
contract that he took, well,that's certainly been the story. Yeah,
yeah, for sure, because obviouslyit starts with the amount ten years,

(05:40):
seven hundred million, by far,the largest contract in sports history, beats
Lino Messi with his Barcelona deal,which I have a certain connection with.
So that's that's pretty cool to meto see that someone get more than the
greatest of all time in the mostpopular sports. So that's pretty cool to
speaks to I think a couple ofthings. Yeah, how special this player
is. And it's very difficult fora lot of sports fans to be in

(06:05):
the moment and understand historically what they'rewatching. Yes, you know, young
people, sometimes nothing happened. Ididn't see Babe Ruth play, so yeah,
and so you just dismiss him becausehe's fat and he was on black
and white videos, right, Butwe are probably we probably are watching the

(06:30):
greatest baseball player of all time becauseof the unique nature of his game.
And then he's getting better every yearat hitting. Yeah, and I do
think he'll pitch again, because Ithink he's just a he's a gym rat
and he wants to do it,and he'll do it. So so just

(06:51):
first of all, like the sevenhundred million that was a staggering thing to
see as a baseball fan. Imean, I was I'm enough anders that
I remember when people were freaking outover the first one million dollar per year
contract. Oh my god, that'sright. Yeah. No, it was
like one offseason started with Nolan Ryanand then a couple of other guys were

(07:14):
getting it, and my dad's sittingon the couch going, what the heck
is going on? It's too muchmoney, too much Why on earth is
anybody worth that kind of money?And now we're talking about seve hundred million.
So that's that stands out. AndI also think that it speaks to
the health of a game that alot of people like to kick around.
Yeah, I mean that's a sevenhundred million dollar guaranteed contract. I mean

(07:38):
you compared it to MESSI yeah,Soccer's got it pretty safe, I think
so future, Yeah, you know, and yet baseball, I think I've
heard it since I was a kid. It's a dying sport. I mean,
just signed a guy to a sevenhundred million dollar contract and he's so
lovable. Yeah, like even Ryan, like the Dodgers of the Angels rival

(08:03):
Mariners aren't no the Dodgers of theAngels, And so here's here are Angel
fans probably still love show Hay eventhough he just went to the enemy.
Yeah, And so it's just anincredibly talented player, skilled player, popular
player, And I think it speaksvery well to what a great spot this

(08:26):
sport actually is. In No matterhow the Mariners behave. I completely agree.
No, I'm serious, I completelyagree. And you know, there's
a lot of the narrative baseball's deadand it's dying, and it has such
an old fan base. I thinkthere was a time where that was true,
but I think in the last tenyears or so, maybe it's just

(08:48):
me following it more. But I'venoticed that, like with my generation,
I'm twenty six years old, it'sit's grown in popularity massively. And maybe
that's me getting older, that's yougetting older. And I swear I've always
said this baseball is like the comfyslippers, ratty slippers, or the house
robe that you wouldn't be caught outin public with. But really, when

(09:09):
you get home and nobody's watching,that's what you go to. Yeah,
that's true, you know it's Andso it is the older that you get
and the I mean, you gotmarried, so you settled down. You're
not going out as frequently with friendson guessing, No, I'm not right.
You don't have as many things pullingyou in opposite directions. You now
have a job, you now havea wife, you probably have rent or

(09:33):
mortgage, something of that nature,and so more often than not, you're
going home to spend time with thatwife, the food and alcohol that you
like to drink time, Yes,like to eat and drink, and and
you settle into this. Oh man, I wish a baseball game was on.
Seriously, I've been wishing that recently. Yeah, that is, That's

(09:54):
that's the draw of the sport.That's why it's always going to remain popular,
no matter how many young people sayit's boring. Yeah, at some
point your life becomes boring, It'strue. And you will get to the
point where you can't wait to puton those slippers and that house robe and
turn on the game and grab abeer and those are your three hours.

(10:16):
Oh my god, that's so nice, right, I need to do that.
Yeah. So it's it's never comeclose to do I mean it has
historically the strike back in eighty one. Yeah, there have been some touch
and go moments, But right now, I think it's just in a great
position. And I you know,amen, just being the face of this

(10:37):
sport for ten years. Yeah.And it's not just him too. I
think there's a lot of young guysthat are coming up in the game.
We've got one super exactly, They'resuper fun to watch. You can go
to Julio, you can Ronald Acunya. There's just there's a bunch of them.
I love. I'm a huge MookieBets fan. That Dodger team is
going to be crazy, by theway, Yeah, I just there there's

(10:58):
some great fun baseball play in thegame right now, and obviously shohe Atani's
at the top of that list.But kind of the biggest not surprise,
yeah, surprise, but like thebiggest kind of story around the sho Heyo
Tani deal. Most people expected himto go to the Dodgers and like,
oh, how crazy that lineup's goingto go, and like ten years,
seven hundred million, it's a lotof money. But it came out the

(11:18):
day after that, it was announcedthat he would defer sixty eight million dollars
per year, so he would onlyget a two million dollars salary so the
Dodgers can keep spending, and thenhe gets the rest of his deal after
he retires, supposedly and at tenyears from now. So you know,

(11:41):
what do you think about that?Is this something that other teams and players
and free agents are going to startto do? Is that something that maybe
the owners aren't so happy about isthat something that the players aren't so happy
about. What's kind of your takewith the deferral of shohey A Tani's salary.
Well, it can be something.The agents are happy about it because
they don't get the percentage until forten years down the road, and so

(12:05):
maybe sho hayes okay with that.But you know, some of us do
live with fear of the unknown,a meteor hitting us in the face,
you know, falling off a horse, you know, something of that nature,
and never getting to spend that money. And most agents are older than

(12:26):
the players, like Scott Boris doesnot allow his players to do that.
Ye Like, there's no way I'mjust burrying millions of dollars of mine into
the future. I want to spendit out. So it's very unusual that
somebody would go to this extreme.And again that speaks to the uniqueness of
sho Heyo Tani. From a competitivebalance standpoint, there are a lot of

(12:48):
different branches to this tree. Butfrom a competitive balance standpoint, it's not
illegal, so we allow it.But I almost feel like it should be
a league because I don't think everyorganization can do this. So I think
that this is a big market clubmove. I think this is a club
that's already worth probably five six sevenbillion dollars and things with Showe Aotani for

(13:15):
ten years is going to be worthtwenty billion or something like that at the
end of the ten years. Andthen they'll probably sell it and not even
have to pay show Aotani that money. They'll they handed off to the next
owner. Oh the owner. Yeah, yeah, they handed off to the
next owner. And so I don'treally I mean, they've kicked one hundred

(13:35):
million dollars per year for a tenyear stretch down the road between twenty thirty
four and twenty forty three. Yeah, I mean, who's picking up that
bill? What was up their sleeve? What are they planning on? I
read somewhere that they are counting onthere not being a luxury tax eventually,
just they'll get rid of that.Interesting, but even the Dodgers can't just

(13:58):
have a hundred million dollars on theirpayroll of retired baseball players, because they've
done this with Freeman, Betts,and Showhy they did all three of them.
I don't know that they have onehundred million dollars due to players that
aren't going to be playing from twentythirty four to twenty forty three for them,
I mean, what are they whatare they anticipating? Are they expecting

(14:22):
the sport to are they expecting it, you know, salaries to be exploded?
Exploded? At that point, that'shard for me to believe. Per
the conversation we just had, howmany people have been predicting this sport's demise
and are the Dodgers predicting that it'sgetting ready to be America's favorite pastime againbe

(14:43):
I mean, so, so there'sthat. I said this on the air
earlier this week. Our founding fathersput in that amendment like right to bear
arms, But had they known wewould have like machine guns? And you
know what, they have added alittle different context, Yeah, yeah,
context to that rule. Yes,you know what I mean? Yah?

(15:07):
Had they known that when Baseball saidyou could, oh yeah, you can
defer payments? Yeah, yeah,go ahead, and I mean, we're
not going to stop it from didthey have any idea that somebody was going
to have a seven hundred million dollarcontract and the first six hundred and eighty
million of it into the future.And had they known that, would they
have put in some literature to adjustfor that or keep teams from doing that,

(15:31):
especially big market clubs who already havean advantage over small market clubs.
And now we're just going to deferpayments so that we can just keep adding
talent. It's not unfair, no, because it's within the rules, but
it feels like it should be unfair. Okay. I like the comparison with

(15:52):
the Second Amendment and all that stuff, which I think it's a good,
good way to think about it.It's like, yeah, had they known
that this would be the outcome,maybe they would have some verbiage that would
prevent something like this. I struggleto see what a team like the Mariners,
are they like or any other midmarket to small market team. I

(16:17):
struggle to see how this would besomething they couldn't do because I don't get
it. I don't know because Idon't know. It just it doesn't make
any sense. Andrews, What whathave you done? What does it mean?
Yeah? How what are you seeingthat we don't see? Yeh,

(16:37):
Dodgers that you can pull this off? Or are you just living for the
moment and you don't care? Well, like you're gonna get out of the
business in ten years, So whatdoes it matter, or you're gonna die
in ten years. Yeah, Ia long time. Yeah. The way
I was trying to see it waslike, why what makes the Mariners unable
to do this versus like the Dodgersable to do this? What makes a

(16:59):
big market team able to do thisand not a small market team. I
but and my response to that isI don't get finances and economics enough to
try to figure that out. BecauseI'm thinking, along with you, why
wouldn't a bunch of old farts whorun the Marigay, who aren't even going
to live to see twenty thirty four, most of them, why wouldn't they

(17:23):
just say, well, hell,if that's in play, we'll give you
a billion dollars, We'll give youa billion dollars out of the future.
If you're going to play for twomillion dollars, then we can add you
to our roster right now, andwe can keep on adding, you know,
and we don't have to increase ourpayroll, which we clearly don't want
to do at this moment. Yeah, why not. I'm going to be

(17:44):
dead in twenty thirty four, sowhy wouldn't that's somebody else's problem? Or
you build up the franchise with Showa, you win three championships in the next
decade, and now you've got avalue of five billion million dollars. So
always like, hey, I'll sellit to you for four because you're gonna
have to pay this guy on amillionaire. Yeah you guys signed, you

(18:07):
still got to pay him a billiondollars. Yeah. Well, I mean
you're going to get what you You'regonna get the money you want, since
that's all you're carried about, caringabout as Mariner fans. You also get
the legacy. Yeah that the fanbase once and you can just get out
from underneath it. Apparently whenever youwant. The Dodgers have figured something out.
They're not stupid. Yeah, Ididn't know that this was a thing

(18:30):
that they did with both Freddie Freemanand Mooki Betts as well, So that
has another wrinkle to it. Theway I originally thought about it was because,
like you said, the uniqueness ofShohey's situation where his marketability is higher
than any other player in the sport, not just here but across the globe.
I saw something that they would makeit up in revenues based on Jersey
sales, the coverage in from Japan, like ticket sale everything in like six

(18:55):
or seven years. They would beable to pay off all the seven hundred
million of his whole contract within thattime. So it's more than worth it
to them. Obviously, I coulddo two million and at lunch. Yeah,
exactly, exactly. But so maybethat was my thought process, was
like, oh, they'll obviously usea lot of that. I'm with you.

(19:17):
I'm not a huge finance guy.I'm not an accountant by any stretch
of the imagination. So I don'tknow how this how this is unique to
the Dodgers, And why wouldn't otherteams do this? Like why, well,
I think Baseball probably going to beworried. Yeah, other teams are
going to try and copy this.Number one. You have to have a
show, hey type. I don'tthink anybody's going to defer that much.

(19:37):
No, no, no, no, no, yeah, he knows no
how much he's going to make anendorsements within the time. He lives a
very simple life. Apparently all hedoes is go to the park and go
home, Go to the park andgo home. So I think, you
know, Janni Santa Katumpo said herolled his eyes recently over how much money
basketball peapers make like this is absurd. Yeah, like we're getting paid for

(20:02):
the nd season tournament? Are youkidding me? I mean he really,
he said. He basically said thathe just roll his eyes. I love
his perspective, be honest. Oneof my favorite players mind too cool mine
too, and I think has avery similar totally two million dollars a year.
Yeah, I can live off ofthat, and I make all this
stupid money from doing a commercial shootNew Balance And oh, by the way,

(20:22):
do you know how much money Imake in Japan endorsements. So he
doesn't need the money, and that'sjust somebody saying this, Well, maybe
I'll need it more. And hewants to win, man, And I
think that's so cool that someone likethat like this was My initial reaction was
that it was so cool that someonewould care more about winning than in the

(20:44):
now than you know, getting allof his money. At this time,
Tom Brady looked like a greedy dick. I was going to say, it's
it's a larger extent of what TomBrady did, because he just restructured his
deal every year to make sure itwould like he would still get his money,
but then it would be under thekap or whatever. It's awesome.
They can keep adding players. Butyeah, I do have a curiosity to

(21:07):
what this does for the competitive balancegoing forward. It's just so different and
it's so new to us. Idon't know how to explain it. I
really don't. And so if you'recoming here for answers on how this contract
works, and I don't either,I haven't had enough time to evaluate it
think about it right that, Asa matter of fact, when I heard

(21:27):
that he was deferring the payment money, that's a joke. Yeah, there's
no way. Who's writing this andwho's believing this? Jeff passing, ESPN
what and then it turns out tobe true. How much better are the
Dodgers going to get? How muchbetter do they think they need to get?
Well, there's a lot of rumorsthat they're going to get Yoshinibo yamamotos

(21:48):
How do you pronounce it? Idon't know the first name, but yama
Moto is definitely the last thing.Okay, I call yoshah Okay, Yeah,
yeah, not Kyler Yamamoto. Thecrack and forward it was awesome by
great guy, but no, yeah, he's another Japanese player, Shoho Tani
was apparently at the pitch the Dodgersmade for to bring him in. Well,

(22:08):
then that's a done deal. Yeahyeah, yeah. So well,
and somebody brought this up, andI thought it was a really interesting thought.
I think it was Ken Rosenthal.I want to give credit to it,
and I'm this isn't recapped perfectly,but I think I understood the gist
of what he was saying. He'slike, this is such a great sign

(22:30):
that baseball's and a great spot.Yeah, there are two reasons, like
whether we want to believe it ornot. Having a player like show a
Otani end up in a big marketwith a great brand is actually great for
the sport. It's great for ratings, it's great for television deals, it's
great for its growth globally. Andand let's face it, I mean people

(22:52):
don't want to admit this. Youwill only most baseball fans, yeah,
will only watch postseason ball that isn'ttheir team, that isn't their team.
If a big name brand is playingor a really convincing you know, like
they won one hundred and ten games, I got to check out to see
how great this team really is.I think they'll watch that as well.

(23:15):
So the fact that he ends upwith a large market team is probably great
for the sport. And then onthe flip side of it, Bob Costas
was asked, do you take theDodgers or the field this upcoming year?
And he goes, are you whatis this a joke? Question? Like,
it's the field. If this isbaseball, it's the field every year.

(23:36):
You couldn't build a good enough baseballteam. The Dodgers could win one
hundred and forty games. I'm stilltaking the field because that's just the way
baseball works. In a short seriesand a short sample size, the A's
could have beaten the Rangers in thefirst round of the playoffs. The A's
beat the Rangers quite a bit downthe stretch as a matter of fact,

(23:57):
And it's just the way that thegame works. So think about that,
Andrews. You've got the big faceon the big brand, carrying the sport
ratings wise, and yet all thelittle guys, because of the way baseball
works, and because you've expanded theplayoffs just as much of a chance,
they've got just as much a chanceof winning a World Series. The Arizona

(24:19):
Diamondbacks were within two games of itwith a one hundred million dollars payroll and
a collection of no names. Yeah, and they nearly pulled off a World
series. So it's it's like we'reentering this era of both the big guy
and the little guy have so muchto root for. Yeah, and I

(24:41):
think you've pointed this out many times. There's multiple ways to win a World
Series. You don't have to justbuy everything, which is the route that
the Rangers took. Obviously it's theroute that the Dodgers are trying to take,
but you can also, you know, have it on a budget.
And it seems like that's the routethat the Mariners are trying to go at
this point in time. So what'snext for Seattle? What do you think

(25:04):
is something we've talked a lot aboutthe trades with the Rays and the Twins.
We can kind of rehash that ifyou want, But if you have
something else that you are thinking afterthe show, Hey is out of the
picture. Now we can start tomove forward as Mariners fans. What's next
for the Seattle baseball team? Well, I will say, I mean,

(25:25):
I certainly don't like the direction thatthe Mariners have decided to go, and
it's just it's a shame. Yeah, it's just sad that ownership because I
think the fans did their job.I think the players have done their job,
and I even think the front office. I'm going to continue to defend
the front office. They didn't havea great year last year, but they

(25:47):
did a great job with the rebuildand even with the absences, this still
should be a competitive team. Imean, people are still counting them nationally
as a playoff caliber team because theyhave the best pitching in the sport.
They do and so so we'll getinto that here in a moment. But
the Bats are now starting to comeoff the market. I mean, I

(26:10):
think the last time we did this, Op Townie was still out there whatever
slim hope we had for him.But obviously that's what they need, that's
where their focus is. I didmy crystal Ball preview of the off season.
I showed you a combination of whatI think they might do and what
I would do. And some ofthose guys are coming off the market,

(26:32):
like Jung Holy's off the market,yep, and not at five years fifty
million like people were forecasting in myride app. I'm like, I don't
think he's going to go for thatcheap, so I'm willing to go.
I think I said five years seventymillion, yeah on Jung Holy, and
he ended up going for six years, one hundred and thirteen. So if

(26:56):
people are wondering, why is thefree agent market? So, I don't
know if anybody's figured it out yet. Oh, Tony's an outlier. Yeah,
he cannot. Nobody can compare themselves. Bellinger can't go to the Blue
Jays and say, it looks likethe going rate for free agents coming off
seventy million a year, I knowyou have it. You know he's not

(27:18):
getting it. Yeah, but thenJong Hole steps into this and ends up
getting more than twice what he wasprojected to get. The sport still has
not figured out what the market isfor free agent hitters at this point.
So if the sport hasn't figured itout, then you can bet your ass
that the Mariners haven't figured it out. And operating under this new profound budget

(27:45):
restraint, what's left? I mean, I'm still gonna go with the trades
I recommended on the last episode ofStove. Rosarina is still out there.
Parades are still out there. BrandonLao, Yondi Diaz, those four bats
from the Rays. I know they'renot going to get rid of all of
them because they're still trying to winthem. But I'll take any of those
two with a Rosarna and Parades beingmy preferred choices. And I still want

(28:11):
the twins trade, not just Kepleror Polanco, I want them both.
Yep. And if you get thosefour guys, you've only increased your payroll
by thirty million dollars and now youhave a world series lineup to go along
with your World series starting rotation andpotential Bullpen with Brash and Munios at the
head of that. So that's stillthe direction that I want to go in.

(28:33):
And I just Andrews, I don'tknow based on what we're hearing about
what they're willing to spend. Imean, I think all of these salaries
are going to be higher than thatthey're willing to pay. I agree,
And they're going to start coming offone at a time and you're like,
well, what is left then?I mean, Jorge Soler right now is
being tossed around. It's coming offa great year. He's one of the

(28:55):
most imposing, impressive looking specimens inthe entire sp I mean, if you're
only going to spend thirty million dollars. He's gonna make fifteen, isn't he
at least for a year, atleast at least right, Yeah, Yeah,
he's still I mean people wanted totail for twenty. He had a
much better year than Tayo last year. Yeah, it's true. Thirty six

(29:17):
home runs he struck got one hundredand fifty times for a power hitter.
Now he can't defend the defense atall. He's a da great DH.
Yeah. I don't know if heis. He's been awfully inconsistent. I
don't love the fact of signing him. I think he's too high and too
low Harry flawed. Yes, butbut you know you're getting into that if

(29:38):
you're going to play the free agentmarket and the way you're talking about how
cheap you're going to be this offseason, well you can forget about Bellinger,
and you can forget about Chapman,and Otani's already off the board, and
Lee's already off the board. Imean we're already into J. D.
Martinez, so lair lords Guriel territoryat this stage, which is comparable to

(30:03):
losing ta Oscar and Nandez, comparableto losing a Heno Suarez. I would
say in terms of the quality ofplayer, probably a slight upgrade those players
are than those guys. But Ithink Martinez is an upgrade. Yes,
I'm not sure. So ilarious,that's what I'm saying. I think Guriel
is a downgrade. Yeah to Taoyep In too. I do like Reyese

(30:25):
Hoskins. Yeah, but you know, but it sounds like he's going to
go for seventeen eighteen million dollars.Yeah. So I mean if you're saying
you've got a budget that almost blowsyour entire budget at that, yeah,
it's going to be a trade season. Going to be trades, right,
Yeah, I think so. Beforewe kind of move on with like some

(30:48):
other stuff, I want I wantto get your thoughts on this. The
Infinnet show me Ian and Jess hada conversation on Wednesday about where this budget
is coming from, and we playedsome clips with Ian's interview with John Stanton
from opening Day twenty twenty three,and then we put that in context with

(31:14):
the comments from Justin Hollander at thefifty four percent end of season press conference,
both basically saying the money is thereto spend. Now, two things
can be the case because the Americansare obviously cutting payroll at this point or
have a lower budget than it originallyexpected. Either one something happened to have

(31:40):
that number go a lot lower thanboth ownership and front office and fans expected
it to be, or there's justan unwillingness to spend it. Do you
think because both Stanton has said I'mwilling to invest in the team and Hollander
has set himself money is not anissue. We have the means to do

(32:01):
what we need to do. Sothat makes me think that there's a almost
want to overwant to get too muchvalue instead of just pouring money into make
a good baseball team. My questionis whose choice is it to cut payroll?

(32:21):
Do you think it's Jerry's or doyou think it's ownership? No chance
it's Jerry. You don't think so, No chance? No none. Like
I think he operates like keeping budgetin mind because he doesn't want the door
to be slammed on him. Butthere's no way that a general manager is
not wanting to spend money and goout and get talent. I think at

(32:43):
the fifty four percent press conference,they were under the impression that they were
going to be able to add.And then that's whatever happened with the regional
Sports network, whatever happened with Rootchange that. Yeah, and then right
before the trading deadline, they gotcalled into the office and we're told you're

(33:07):
not going to have as much asyour thought. This is what you're going
to have. Actually, I'll takeit back, I'll take it even further
than that, because they started,they were obviously told you're not going to
add as much as you thought,and then you start selling off salaries r
and my impression was so that youcould spend that money more effectively plus some

(33:31):
and I think that was their impression. And then once they got down to
the Winter meetings, the whole narrativehad changed. As a matter of fact,
there was a one moment in theat the winter meetings where Jerry was
asked, are you going to tradeone of your established young pitchers for a

(33:53):
hitter? And he goes, itis less likely now than it was twenty
four hours ago. And that wasright after the Marco Gonzalez Evan Y Jered
Kelling trade. Okay, yeah,so when you're saying that, that means,
I mean nothing to the market hadchanged, right, He's saying in

(34:14):
the last twenty four hours something hadchanged. Well, nope, but he
had gone anywhere. Ohtani hadn't signed. Nobody had signed at that point.
That could have been a response tolosing one of your starting pitchers, Marco
Gonzalez. But I see what you'resaying, That's probably not what he was
saying. I think what he wassaying was that right before they that day,
he was notified you're gonna have evenI know, I told you you're

(34:37):
gonna have less than you thought.You're gonna have even less, so in
your thought. But then why wouldhis response to having less be I'm not
going to trade. Wouldn't that beone of the ways to get a better
team while not increasing your payroll.Well, they are trying to protect and
I think to a fault their youngpitching depth. What I think was happening
is the Snell rumor was true.I mean, even Divish was reporting it

(35:02):
that the Snell rumor was true,and it was looking like it was heading
in that direction. Not that thatwas plan A, right, but Plan
B would be, Hey, thisguy wants to play for us, and
we can trade from our depth here. Yeah, and so if he wants
to take a little bit less andhe fits in our budget. Yeah,
then we'll go ahead and sign him. And then that frees us to trade

(35:25):
one of these young pitchers to geta bat. That's that's how we'll go
about this. And then all ofa sudden, without anything happening in the
market, something changed in twenty fourhours. Well I read into it.
The only thing that changed this Johnstan came to him and said, we
can't afford Snell. Yeah, we'reyou were going to have an even lower
budget than what I told you.The numbers came back on the regional sports

(35:51):
network and we don't like it,and so you're gonna have even less to
spend than what we thought. Andso from that point he was like,
well, we can't even afford Snellanymore, so we're gonna hold onto our
pitching. So he said it wasless likely to do it. That's how
I read it. Yeah, Iread that the same way. But I
just the thing and I get that, Like I said, one of the

(36:12):
things that could have happened was thatsomething happened in between that timeframe from opening
day twenty twenty three to now wherethey would have less than they originally thought
and told people that they would havewhether it was Jerry or John. So
I just I don't know. Iget the vibe that there's something going on

(36:38):
and there needs to be a littlebit more transparency. I think Ryan was
asking exactly and that's the story thatcame out. Was it yesterday? And
he was mentioning, like, thefans have gone through as much as you
can ask them to go through atthis point, and we're supposed to be
coming out the other end. Now, why isn't that the case. Why

(37:00):
aren't we finally in a place wherewe can act like a contender, as
we mentioned earlier in the podcast,Well something financially, And I don't think
it's because they're losing money. Ithink that they got to read that they
weren't going to make as much asthey wanted, and so they decided,
well, we're not going to livein that world, and they pull back

(37:22):
the money, and I think they'remaking the front office have to explain it
because John's nowhere to be seen.And you proudly took the helm face of
the owners, You proudly kept everybodyelse quiet. You were the guy out
in front, and now you're nowhereto be found. To explain why it
is that Jerry Scott and justin onemonth after saying that they had all the

(37:46):
financial resources they needed now are goingto the winter meetings and saying and crying
poverty. Why did that happen?And so there are some things to blame
about Jerry Depote. He did nothave a great year last year. And
for those that foresaw that Pollock andWong were idiotic decisions. At the moment,

(38:08):
I did not feel that way.I didn't love them, I didn't
hate them. But so I'm notgonna I'm not going to kill him for
his plan going in to last season, but I certainly kill him for the
trade deadline. And now I'm wonderingif they even put the financial restraints on
him at the trading deadline. Butthen why would Hollander at the end of

(38:29):
the season, which was after thetrade deadline, say that the money is
available. That's not well my reading, My read into that is that they
weren't close enough. They weren't likeestablished as we're in, yeah, and
so I think John was like,if we're not in, then we're not

(38:50):
buying, and so well, we'llwait till the off season. Yeah,
then they get to the off season, have the fifty four percent press conference,
and then something else changed. Thereare things to knock Jerry for.
You didn't have a good year lastyear, and there there's a personality issue
in that organization. He has tonedeaf to what the locker room wants.

(39:14):
The entire roster now doesn't like him. So those are the two issues.
But there's no way that anybody canconvince me Andrews, I don't get.
I could give you three days andI'll just sit here and shut my yapper.
There's no way you're going to convinceme that there's a general manager on

(39:34):
Earth. And I realize that's notreally his title anymore, but he's running
this show. He's a man thatdoesn't can't wait to spend money, that
doesn't want to go out there andget the sure fire thing. They all
want to do it. But Ithink Jerry is operated for years with every
owner in this sport has a cap, not an official one. But I

(39:55):
know that the money's going to runout, and I got it keep some
space for when I need the gofor it move, and so I do
think he's intentionally kept the budget lower. Yeah, but this offseason, no,
he got played for he got setup to take the backlash from the

(40:17):
fan base for what ownership did tothem. Okay, I mean yeah,
I generally would agree with you.The only thing that makes me think that
something else would be going on.And yeah, I think logically it makes
sense that no general manager wouldn't wantto spend money. But I just keep
thinking there's something like you said abouthis personality that would make him almost feel

(40:40):
like he would rather get more outof less than just go and get the
sure thing, you know what Imean, and like have a team that's
the case. Then the reputation thatJerry can't finish, yeah, is another
thing to be concerned about. Butbecause that's not a finisher. No,

(41:00):
a finisher is somebody that's like,I know who's good and I'm getting them,
and we're going to be a goodteam next year and we're gonna go
compete for the World Series. Yeah, but like we have a team,
we have to. I want toprove everyone wrong that everyone doesn't think we're
good, and we're just going togo to the playoffs and prove everyone wrong.
If so, then he's not theright guy. You can't operate that

(41:22):
way. You got to be akiller in sports, you got to know
when to strike. I think thatagain, I'll just say that, I
think there is an element of himbelieving I know that there's a financial limit
in this organization, and I needto stay comfortably below that financial limit so

(41:43):
that it frees me to when Ineed the killer move, I can make
the killer move. Yeah, andso I think he has intentionally remained under
budget for years. Okay, butthis offseason is a different animal. Okay.
This offseason was we're going for it. We're in a championship window.

(42:04):
And they renegged. Yeah, ownershiprenegged. They cried poverty because of their
regional sports deal, and our handsare tied. So that's why I got
a clear space. So though whatI am given, I want to spend
the right way, and I don'tthink it's going to happen through free agency.

(42:25):
I mean, I'm looking at thesenot many salaries have come off the
board, but what few that havecome off the board. I mean,
if anybody thought that Jamer Candelario wasgoing to be, you know, some
cheap option at the end, fifteenmillion dollars a year, and it's the
Reds. The Arizona Diamondbacks went ongot a twenty million dollars per year player
in Edward L. Rodriguez. That'swho you have to compare yourself to.

(42:49):
That's a team that is in achampionship window. And Ken Kendrick their owner,
who is historically cheap, even he'sgoing for it. There's no excuse
for the Mariners not to be goingfor it other than the fact that an
owner has a group, an ownershipgroup, Yeah, is keeping them from

(43:10):
spending their money. Yeah, Ihope that changes soon. On a crap.
Yeah, it sucks as a fan, I'm even changing soon. It
has to change now. Man,you can't waste this window. You can
go through a rebuild like this andthen all of a sudden decide, now
we're not really going for it.I mean this team, if they get

(43:30):
a couple of bats, a couplejust two bats, okay, they could
get into the playoffs. Yeah,they could get into the playoffs next year.
And then, as we've mentioned,anything can happen. Yeah. They
give four bats. That's an upgradefrom last year. They give four bats,
which is what they really need.Yeah, they do. Now you're
a championship Now you're a championship team. Yeah. Now you're a ninety five

(43:52):
win team. Yeah, and thatwould be taking advantage of your window that
we are in. We are inthat window now, I think. I
don't think gets down the road anylonger. I don't know. It's here,
it's here. We're not rebuilding,none of that has happened. Cora
is here, and we have thebest pitching in baseball. And I think
Softy is one of the people topoint this out. And what in his

(44:14):
frustrations with the Mariners is you wasteda stellar year of pitching a team that's
a pitching staff that deserve to bein the playoffs. So you need to
supplement that with at least something onthe offensive end going there's no way you
can. I won't go as far. Waste seems like a strong word.

(44:37):
They didn't do nothing, Yeah,that to me is wasting it. But
this feels like wasting well, likethis period of time, like if you
don't, all right, you decidedthat the trading deadline not to go for
it, right, shame on you. But I don't know if I put
that in the waist category. Idon't think his waist term was in terms

(44:59):
of adding the team. I thinkit's just like we had such a good
year pitching. That pitching staff shouldhave been in the playoffs, like the
fact that we weren't was a wasteof a year of good pitching. Yeah,
okay, yeah, you know whatI mean. Yeah, and and
and those guys are still young.Yes, And you committed financially to Castillo,
and you committed financially to Ray.You know you cannot blunder no this

(45:23):
period of time. So for themto pull the purse strings, it's it's
inexcusable and borderline unforgivable. Yeah.And I understand everybody's rage out there.
And then I have the compassion onthe other side, because what is the
option you deprive yourself of something youenjoy, You don't go to games,

(45:45):
you don't We talked about you rootfor Julio talked about this at the beginning
of the podcast. It's you cutroot and then you don't get to go
home and do the slippers. Yeah, exactly, beer and watching the baseball
game on a lovely spring day.Yeah. I mean, I don't want
you to cost yourselves that, butI get that you've got to send a
message to this ownership group. Andso I really, I really feel for

(46:09):
it. I didn't see it coming. And all of those people that I
told you so, well, okay, you were right. That sucks.
I didn't live with this ownership group. I was told different things. Yeah,
but here's what I said repeatedly.Yeah, the rebuild was necessary,
the rebuild was effective. We're ina championship window right now. Yes,

(46:30):
we should be adding right now,and we're not so until now. I
guess I didn't agree with all ofthe angry people, but I certainly understand
that this is unacceptable. Yeah,and I think just the lack of patience
comes from how much we've been promisedthis and now that you have a good

(46:52):
team, that it's like, okay, let's let's go now, and and
it's still it feels like it's nothappening. So I hope this is a
show, or at least for me, I root to be wrong. I
hope they proved me wrong, butit just doesn't seem like that's going to
be the case at this point.So you got anything for Chuck's choice today
or do you want to maybe dothat next episode? No? I think

(47:14):
we got to do it every episode. What do you got, I'll I'll
close with this and it's not evengoing to be Marin or related because all
of the things that I pointed outwith yeah, all the things that I
pointed out last week are still therefor the taking. So I love this.
I mean the more I the morepeople become baseball fans, the more

(47:36):
interest that they get in the farmsystems. And baseball can never with its
draft be the NFL draft, right, No, It's just never going to
reach it. The NFL is instantaneous. Yeah, you can be a good
player in your one yeah. Wellyeah, and you know that every single
draft pick is going to be onyour football team that year. Yeah,

(47:57):
okay, and the first round draftpick is supposed to be a starter and
maybe a star that could change thefortunes of the year, so you don't
have to wait. That is instantgratification. The National Football Basketball's same way,
I mean, changed a little bitbecause we started letting, you know,
eighteen year olds into the league,and so there's a little bit of

(48:19):
more of a ramp up with themas opposed to baseball as yeah, as
opposed to in the NFL. Youreverybody's a twenty one to twenty two year
old man at that point and ismoving on to the National Football League so
baseball doesn't have that luxury. AndI appreciate the efforts to try to make
the MLB Draft look bigger. It'snot going to get there. So what

(48:44):
we as baseball fans, what wedie hard, is what we seam heads
know is that those top one hundredprospect lists that come out at the beginning
of the year that we pour over, those are our drafts. Those are
our NFL drafts, because those arethe guys that are close. And baseball

(49:07):
is starting to make some really gooddecisions. And I didn't think Rob Manford
was even capable, But they haveannounced they're going to do this spring showcase
of their prospects. It's a recognitionof how much the baseball fan loves prospects

(49:28):
and loves the idea of seeing thenext potential great thing that's coming to the
major leagues. And so they're goingto put during spring training. They're going
to have every single team in baseballthat will compete with this, and they're
going to showcase their best young prospects, regardless of level AAAAA. They're going

(49:49):
to play in a little showcase kindof tournament for three days, and Mariner
fans are going to have the opportunityto see guys that they've only heard about
or read about. Cole Young's ColdEmerson's Harry Ford we're familiar with. Yeah,
Yeah, And so to be ableto see them play and represent the
Mariners and to finally get to seethem with your eyeballs and face other competition,

(50:14):
not like an All Star game,but and not not because all Star
games they only get like one atbat and then they go to the bench.
This is going to be the opportunityto play a full game seeing your
best young prospects of the future.I really love it. That's pretty cool.
I think they should do a similarthing with the MLB Draft and have

(50:34):
a similar showcase with all of theprospects that are getting ready to enter the
MLB Draft, the college guys beforeokay, before they get drafted, Yeah,
before they get drafted. I thinkthey should do the same thing with
the college All Stars and the highschool All Stars, yeah, and put
them so we can familiarize ourselves withthem. And so it gives us an
incentive to watch because we know we'vegot the sixth pick in the draft this

(50:58):
year, and I want to seewhat the talent's like and just studying videos
of guys being recorded with a camquorderbehind home plate versus seeing them actually play
baseball. That's one of the benefitsthat baseball has over the NFL. In
the NBA, you can play thissport at full tilt. As a matter
of fact, playing at fifty percentor seventy five percent will lead to more

(51:21):
injuries than playing it at full tilt. NFL can't do that, yeah,
before the draft. NBA can't dothat at an All Star game. No,
they can't risk the injury where baseballcan play their game. I mean,
I'm not talking about collisions at homeplate. Let's eliminate those taking out
people at second base or whatever thecase may be. But if you throw

(51:43):
one hundred, we want to seeyou throw one hundred. And if you
can hit the ball five hundred feet, we want to see you hit that
one hundred mile per power hour fastballfive hundred feet. You can sprint to
first base to leg out a singlein an All Star game and a showcase
game and baseball and everybody's better forit. So they're taking advantage of some
of the unique characteristics that the NFLcan't take advantage of. And I love

(52:08):
it. So I hope. I'mlooking forward to this. I think it's
a great idea. It's nothing thatI thought that they would do. But
now take my idea of showcasing thecollege All Stars and the high school All
Stars in a similar fashion right beforethe draft, so we can familiarize ourselves
with the next wave of players thatare coming after the future. I'm a

(52:29):
huge fan of this because it indicatesto me that they're leaning into the younger
players and having an impact on thegame because to me, at least from
an outside perspective, it seemed likethere was this notion that you had to
be there and you had to grindyour way up before you could be a
good baseball player. It's that waywith the umpires. It was kind of
that way before with just media coverageand stuff like that. Now it's kind

(52:52):
of I think, first and second, your players are better than they ever
have been, and they're successful earlierthan they ever have been. So I
think this is a lean into that, Like, hey, now you know
that good young players can come inand be good right away. Julio Rodriguez,
Gorbyn Carroll, Ronald Cooney Junior.There's a bunch of examples You're gonna

(53:13):
get to see guys before they comein and do that. You're going to
get to familiarize yourself with them.And that's something that I think is a
huge impact on both the game andits audience. And I think for the
players too, that's going to showthem that, you know, you can
come in and be good right awayand you don't have to you know,
have six years in Double A andthen go to Yeah, exactly, Seriously.

(53:36):
I think that's a great example,Like it's it's finally leaning into that
a little bit, which I thinkBaseball's needed big time well, And they've
made rules to support that. Yeah, so that you're not sitting on them
Anymoreactly, they're incentivizing you if yourguy is ready, bring him up,
seriously, and we will incentivize youto bring him up. I mean,
that's one of the reasons, Julioit was there on opening day. Without

(53:59):
those rules, do you think he'snobody? We might not have seen him
till mid May of last year?Yeah, And that and last year was
you know, that was a playoffyear. Yeah, all right, so
maybe you don't make the playoffs rightwithout that rule in place. Because they've
tried to protect service time for solong, but it looks like that's another

(54:20):
great idea that they've had it.We are, we are, we are
moving beyond that era. Like thevery first game of this future showcase is
going to be Paul Schemes for thePirates playing against the Baltimore Orioles and Jackson
like the two top picks. Let'sgo. Yeah, that'll be awesome.
It's so cool. So this isgonna be great. Baseball's actually, believe
it or not. I know itdoesn't feel like it. I know we're

(54:42):
angry. I know we're here angryin Seattle. But baseball, believe it
or not, is making some reallygood decisions to grow the sport, and
I'm all about it. All right. That'll do it for us this week.
Thank you very much for joining us. Andrews excellent work. Appreciate you.
My name is Chuck poalcchik Us outChucking Buck in the mornings six to
ten Monday through Friday on Sports Radioninety three point three KJRFM. What do

(55:07):
you want to plug this week?Can plug anything? Yeah, I mean
just listen to station. All fourshows are excellent. They've done great coverage
with the Huskies run that you guysthat were kind of witnessing to right now,
Mariners offseason is a big topic Seahawksand they're push for the playoffs.
So Sports Radio ninety three point threeKGRFM from six am to seven pm every

(55:28):
single weekday. Tune in and listenup. And if you haven't caught are
my personal Mariners podcast, you cantake a listen there. All of these
episodes from stove will also be postedthere. It's called Talking Nerves with Rory
and Durs. My buddy Rory istaking the off season off, so I
decided to bring Chuck on a littlebit. So these episodes will also be
on that page. If you're afan of that podcast. I taken Rory

(55:51):
and fantasy football this week. Ohthe playoffs. Better squash his face.
Yeah, it's me and Jess forbattling for not last place, by the
way, so I need to beather. Oh I wasn't going to bring
that up. Yeah all right,Well, thanks for stoving with us.
We'll do it again. Actually notnext week. I'm going on a little
holiday, but yeah, we'll certainlydo one before the end of the new

(56:12):
year. For Andrewshurst. My nameis Chuck Powell. Thanks for listening to stove