February 4, 2025 • 49 mins
Chuck and Anders break down the Jorge Polanco (re) signing, and of course, talk about the comments made by Mariners president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto summarizing the offseason.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Stove.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
What a kind of name is that?
Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's the name of a Mariner's podcast starring Anders Hearst
Chuck Powell. And we've been doing it for years. I
would think that it would be part of your vocabulary.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Two years to be exact.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yes, And by the way, thank you very much Andershurst
for defending the Stove podcast and the face of haters
like Ian Furness who don't understand the glory of it.
And I'll say the same thing to you, Chris Crawford.
I heard your nasty comments the other day as well. Yeah,
we're proud of our Stove podcast. Andrews does a great
(00:38):
job with it. He works hard to sound informed, educated
and interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I am not informed, educated or interesting, but I sound
that way.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's all I care about.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And so I'm I It did me proud to listen
and have him talk about it and promote it. And so,
I don't know, maybe you're just jealous for news.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
He wants to be on it, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, Yeah, I don't think Ian would ever accept an
invitory no to be on a baseball podcast with me.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I think he's happy that he has one. And then
the Mollywop guys on his own show to talk about it,
so he can just shuffle it off because boy does
does this team make him mad?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
And he's not alone.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, nothing to good, nothing but good stuff talk about today. Yeah,
I mean, nobody's gonna get angry or cical or critical today. No,
there's no this week.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
There's no talking down to fans. There's there's no talking
down to media saying that everyone else is wrong for
what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
No, none of that this week. Just sigh, big side.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Big side. To start the program today, Well, welcome in,
Thank you. It is the Stove Podcast. It is our
Mariners offseason podcast, and honestly, we normally record it on Thursday,
but there have been some stuff that's happened, so we
are recording on Tuesday here today. Uh and uh and
so we have pretty much two big major topics. It
(02:02):
actually one major topic, but another topic chronologically that came
first that we probably should touch it.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
And as is a like annual tradition on the Stove Podcast,
right after we record last week, a big move, a
move happens.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, it turns out we.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Got away with it every week this year.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah, I was like expecting it, like okay, just watch now,
they're gonna trade Castillo. But right after we record this episode,
and then it ends up happening that right after we
finished recording last week, the Mariners re signed Jorge Polonco
to a one year, seven million dollars deal with seven
hundred and fifty thousand dollars investing options and incentives. They
(02:43):
bring him back and say he's going to play third base.
There's a couple things to unpack there. What are your
thoughts on the return of Jorge Polonko.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
You know, I like the idea of adding him so
much that I obviously can't now hate it. I mean,
baseball fans have to understand you are going to have
an off year, and maybe he hit the wall. Maybe
he's the it's the Eddie George wall, where I'm a
good player one day and then I turned thirty and
(03:15):
I'm not anymore. I mean, there's a possibility that that
exists here. There's a possibility that he really struggled with
what we now know is the most difficult park to
hit in in Major League Baseball and maybe had a
really hard time adjusting to that, and so and maybe
he'll continue to do that. But I will say, for
(03:35):
this time of the year, considering where they are, and
I still feel they have holes remaining to have plugged
one of them. And there's some debate as to whether
or not he's a third baseman, but I feel, you know,
as strongly as I felt about him when they made
the trade for the positive. I'm just not going to
(03:56):
say after one year he's terrible, he's washed, terrible signing.
I don't mind this, okay, And I actually think it's
I like the idea of employing third base more than
I do putting him back at sex.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I was gonna ask you that because there's a lot
of people saying, oh, all of a sudden, he's gonna
find some arm strength to play a third base who
hasn't played that many games there in his career, and
you know he sucked at second base. What makes you
think he's gonna be good at third? The corner infield's
positions are traditionally a lot easier to defend. You don't
have to have as much range movement, and I think
(04:32):
that's going to help coming off his injury with his knee.
The biggest thing will be the arm strength. But we've
seen third baseman succeed without elite arm strength. Kyle seekers
one of them. He was one of the best defensive
third basemen in the game for a five six year stretch,
and he didn't have elite arm strength, but he was
so good at anticipation and his positioning, and he had
(04:55):
good range as well, that he made it work and
he was a really good defensive third baseman. So I
am not concerned about his move to third base.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And I'm with you.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I think I feel more confident that they say he's
going to play third base, that he's going to be
a good defensive third baseman than if they slotted him
minute second.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Plus.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
You know, I've seen him play second and he wasn't good,
and so maybe it is time, with the different knee
injuries and the hamstrings, that you do move him to
third base. And we've also seen Perry Hill take Geno
and turn him into Gold Glove caliber and even Josh
Ross was I mean, he was very good, yeah, defensively
(05:35):
a year ago, and he's somebody that bounced back from
third to second. So yes, there are some concerns, but
I have fewer concerns about him playing defensively at third.
And I just I mean, this is a professional line
drive hitter. Yeah, I mean, I don't have the numbers.
I never do, by the way, have numbers in front
of me. But his doubles total was atrocious a year ago,
(05:56):
and he's just been a doubles machine his entire major
league career. So I think that we unfortunately endured the
worst year Jore Polanco has had in his career. And
I just I mean, he's still just thirty one years old.
It's not like he's thirty eight like somebody else they signed,
So thirty one should not suggest that he's washed up.
(06:17):
But we've seen that happen before, it can happen. But
I'm just going to believe that he had kind of
a strong finish the last year, maybe figured out some
things about the park. Maybe Edgar and Dan and Kevin
Seitzer are going to sing just the tune that he
needs to hear. Yep. So I think it's an okay.
I think I think it's a pretty good decision at
(06:38):
this point in the process. But I really felt anderws
it was going to lead to Okay, now what else? Yeah,
and that's the issue.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, just one more thing on Polanco real quick, like
you can still I'm with you. I think of all
the options that were available at that time, that is
better than what we had, Like you feel it theoretically
fill as a hole. I'm not gonna say it's gonna
be a world beater at third base and he's gonna
be one of the best third basement in the league,
(07:07):
and that that's for years to come. Now, I'm it's
better than what you had. He's better than Austin Shenton.
It's better, at least better to rely on that than
Austin Shenton going into opening day, but.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Worse than better than Shinton.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's kind of where it's at.
But I still do have concerns about his offensive profile.
We mentioned this on our last episode when talking about
T Mobile Park because looking at the I forget the
guy's name that wrote at the article on Mike Petrielo Petriello,
Yes on T Mobile Park, Like the kind of home
run strikeout guys are the ones that aren't affected as
(07:43):
much by T Mobile Park, but the gap to gap
guys are, and that's kind of what Jorge Polanco is.
So I'm still concerned whether that is a big factor
in the reason why he had such a bad year
last year is because he was playing that in that
park for eighty one games or eighty two games, eighty
one games, and I just I don't know if that's
(08:04):
going to turn around this year. So I do still
have concerns about his offensive profile, but he's better than
what we had, and you just mentioned it. The real
issue is that they basically were like, yeah, we're basically done.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Now this is our team.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
The report from Adam View comes out that this probably
is their team going into Opening Day, and then of
course yesterday we had Jerry Depoto have his kind of
press conference indicating that it was the end of the
off season for the Seattle Mariners.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Embarrassing. Yeah, just embarrassing. I've been saying throughout the process,
if this is it, that it's an F minus. I
will edit that a little bit because you didn't lose anything, Okay,
you know off of the Rosses, the point that you
feel like, you know, the Astros lost Kyle Tucker. Yeah,
they're goodness sake, and now they made other ads, so
(08:52):
they're not an F right. But you didn't lose anything
from the team of significance. Yeah, Josh Rojas Nah, but
there's no way to give them more than an ha F.
So I'm going to take the minus off of it
because you didn't lose anything. But there's no way that
I can give them anything above a fail when you
have as many holes offensively as you had bottom ten
(09:15):
in baseball and all main categories, maybe not WRC plus
or some stat that your cherry pick Advanced Metrics, Advance
Metrics stat that your cherry pick, so it doesn't look
as bad as it is. How about we just go
off of bottom ten and runs scored in Major League
Baseball and lost a couple of people off the team.
(09:39):
And I understand those decisions, but obviously you could have
gotten a lot better offensively this year and just for
whatever reason, chose not to.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, I just that's a big issue for me.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
We'll get into the Depoto press conference here in a second,
but the fact that this is their offseason, it seems
like at this point and it's being like kind of
twisted that like Jorge Polanka was an addition. He was
on your team last year, right, and so was Victor Roblos.
So is Randy Roseraina. We'll hear from him in a second,
but he mentions the additions of Victor Roblos, Randy Roseraina,
(10:12):
Donovan Solano, and Jorge Polanco. As if that is what
your off season was. No, Randy Rosemino was on your
team to end the year last year, Victor Robos is
on your team for half the year last year, and
Jorge Polanc was on your team for the entire year
last year. They're not additions. These are players that you
had last year when you had a bad offense up
for debate. I guess, uh, your audition was Donovan Slana.
(10:35):
That is the addition to this team, Like that's the
only thing.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
He's the fourth edition that you've made, right, Like, oh
that's that? Okay? Yeah, professional hitter, you know, built like
a marshmallow. You know, even if he's the platoon first
baseman because you picked up an exotic sexy d h. Yeah,
then I can live with that. Even if he has
a roll of short side platoon first base, I can
(11:01):
live with that. But for that to be the only
addition to the team, it's embarrassing. And what Jim Bowden
said on our airwaves a couple of weeks ago that
we talked about ye on the podcast last week holds true.
It makes me want to throw up, and it's just
not a championship move. It's the move of an organization
(11:22):
that is okay with being pretty good, and that's unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah, well, we know what Chuck Powell feels about the offseason.
Let's hear what the Mariners president of baseball operations thinks
about the off season additions, specifically on the offensive side
of the ball. We start with Curtis Crabtree of Fox
thirteen his question regarding where he expects improvement to come
from the offense this year.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Hey, Jerry, given that you haven't added a ton of
offensive pieces to the roster this offseason, where do you
see from the group that you have the improvement level coming?
Is it Hanneger and Garber bouncing back? And so what
does that look like?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You know where?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Where?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Where do you see that stretch coming from? Since you
guys were you know, top of the league in strikeouts
and low you know, second lowest and average last year,
how does that manifest itself?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Well, I mean, how much time do you have is
the easy answer to that question. I think there is
the reality of our offense and then the perception of
our offense.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
And you know, our.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Offense, we we play in a tough ballpark to hit it.
Our offense has generally been above average based on advanced
metrics WRC plus things like that for a number of
years now. You know, the last three years, we've actually
had a very stable offense, particularly good on the road,
I think, one of the top ten in MLB. When
(12:43):
we're on the road and at home we play in
a tough run scoring environment that that really benefits our
pitching staff and and our players' position players have been
asked to find ways and and we've generally done that.
You know, we've turned it into one of the best
home records in the league. So, you know, we we
try not to to think too much about how to
(13:05):
reconstruct a team for our ballpark. It's working, you know,
the way it is. We just have to figure out
how to make it work better. And you know, our
team in general, we strike out more at home than
on the road. I think that's also true of our opponents.
And and you know what we have done is we've
we've built a team of players that on their own,
you know, they're they're very good. And the attrition or
(13:29):
potential for players to bounce back from down years. You know,
we had a few guys last year who came out
and didn't have their best season and and or got
slow off to slow starts. You know, we added Victor
Roblaze in mid season, we added Randy Rose Arena at
the trade deadline. We get a full season from what
we hope is a resurgent JP Crawford, and and you know,
(13:52):
we get perhaps the second half of Julio rather than
the first, and and that goes a long way. You know,
you add that to some of the players we have
who had breakout seasons like Luke Rayley, excellent seasons like
cal Raley. We have a good offensive team and we
didn't feel like we needed to do a whole lot,
but to find ways to support the group that we had.
(14:14):
And you know, I know the off season has been
long and seemingly slow. We feel and I said this
at season's end, we do feel like we made a
lot of progress last year. And you know, the additions
of a Rosa Raina Roblaze, Solano and a healthy whore
Ape Bolonco, with what we think will be bounce back
(14:34):
seasons from a couple of guys who didn't have their
best years stand to be positives for us.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Okay, lots unpacked there.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
That is probably the most Jerry Depoto answer I've heard
of any question because a lot of what he said
was true about the good home record.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, hard ballpark to produce offense.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
In Petriello did him a favor exact as it turned
out exactly, so, I think because he's never been that
fourth right no about how bad the ballpark is to
hit it right, And now Petriello makes news, and oh
I can use that in my argument.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Now everyone else knows it. Yeah, as if we didn't before. Yeah,
But and there's some other things about like expecting bounce
back years from Julio possibly from you know, healthy JP Crawford.
Like those are things that yeah, if you said just
that kind of stuff, Okay, great, well, I would have
been all in on that, Like that's easy to defend,
(15:34):
Like it wouldn't have been the best answer of all time,
but it's fine. But the stuff that I've marked down here,
the first thing perception versus reality about our offense that
like Jackson put it very well yesterday and Softian Dick,
that's basically the definition of gaslighting, Like, oh yeah, you
guys have a perception of what our offense is, but
(15:55):
the reality is totally different. You have no idea what
you're talking about to fans, media, anyone who thinks that
the offense is bad, basically everyone.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
By the way, they blamed the media for telling the
fans something that's not true. I don't know how to
get around this. I mean, there is no way you
can explain last season as a good offensive season. I mean,
you didn't hit over too thirty. Let's just use an
old school batting average and not cherry pick some analytics number.
(16:26):
You didn't hit over two thirty for a month until August.
That was the first time that you hit over excuse me, September.
September was the first time that you hit over two thirty.
As a team. You led the league in strikeouts the
second straight year. You were second to last in batting average.
(16:47):
You were bottom five in ops, you were bottom ten
in runs scored. Let us also point out you were
a team because your pitching was so great that was
in the race the entire year Offensively were teams that
had given up, traded away their best players, had decided
to go youth movements. The rest of the year, you're
(17:08):
lumped in with the Marlins and the Nationals and the Pirates.
That's the company that you kept offensively last year. And
so yes, your hot month at the end of the year,
coupled with everybody else giving up on trying to win,
settled you somewhere that wasn't worst in the league. Most
(17:29):
of the season, you were operating as the worst offensive
teams in Major League Baseball. And so to try to
characterize it as we were good last year and this
has just turned into a propaganda against us that's insane.
And you know, I've defended Jerry Depoto four years and
(17:51):
I'll still defend some of the things that he does
and I always will, but there's no defense for this.
You are a bad offensive team. And now you you
are gas lighting all the media and all the fans
into thinking that you did more in the offseason than
what we realize. And you did it to a team
(18:11):
that wasn't that far away. That was a bad offensive team.
It wasn't an average offensive team, it wasn't a pretty
good offensive team. That was a bad offensive team, and
you added Donovan Solano to it, and you want us
to buy that you did enough this offseason to make
a difference.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Second thing that I noted above average based on advanced metrics.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Thoughts on that again, Hey, Cherry picked a number at
WRC plus, and yes, the numbers on the road were
certainly better, and over the course of the last three
to four seasons they have ended up close to close
to the top ten as an offensive team until this
(18:54):
past year. Right, but here's another thing that has to
be pointed out. You never hit until August. Yeah, you
are always climbing out of a hole. Until last year
you actually somehow gained a ten game lead even though
you weren't hitting. But you never hit until the summer.
That's also an issue. I mean, we were not imagining
(19:17):
it every time we came in talking about a three
to two loss that we did not create enough offense.
I think Luke Arkins, our friend who's probably gonna be
on next week's podcast, pointed out that there were seventy
seven games with three runs or less that the Mariners
played in last year and on the road they won
two out of thirty six of those games went two
(19:40):
and thirty four. Yeah, in those games.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well, and that's another thing to point out, Like at.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Thirty six games on the road where you're better that
you scored three runs or fewer.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
And this is a classic Jerry Depoto thing to do,
where he makes a stat that is true, where your
offense is better on the road, but he tries to
kind of sell it that's the reason why our offense
isn't bad. But then oh, we lean on our pitching,
but your pitching's bad on the road, Like you had
a worst offense. You had a worse road record than
(20:10):
you did a home record, but you're trying to blame
that t Mobile park is the reason why your offense
is bad. Like it's just moving from stat to stat,
trying to just make things seem one way when they're
actually another perception versus reality.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yes, like he was trying to distort the realities that
you were a bottom ten, no getting around it, right,
bottom ten offense in Major League Baseball and the only
bottom ten offense that was actually in the playoff hunt. Yes,
from the beginning of the year till the end.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Of the year.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
And like Dick Fame said this in reaction to this,
as well, you can't have it both ways, Jerry. You
can't say that, you know, oh, our offense is good
on the road, and so our home ballpark is uh
is negating all that that's the reason why our offense
is bad. But then when your pitching's average to a
slightly above average on the road, but then elite at home,
(21:04):
say that you're starting pitching is one of the best
in baseball, and we're building our team around that like
it's one of the other, right, And I tend to
lean that it's the second one. That you have a
lead starting pitching, build your team around that. But you're
bad offensively your last.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Year, Yes, And you were mediocre the year before, and
you were pretty good the year before that, and yet
you're terrible every year prior to the summer. Yes, and
that's half the season. Yeah, So it is it's just
made up junk, is all it is. Yeah, I mean,
and it's trying to the only thing that I can
(21:43):
chalk it up to is stuff that we've talked about
all winter long waiting for a move, and that is
you're not allowed to spend, so that's been made clear.
There are ways around it, but that means you've got
to trade prospects, and you've got a wealth of them.
Even Keith Law ranked you number one farm system, and
(22:04):
that guy usually underrates the Seattle Mariners so there is
absolute truth to out good your farm system is. But
that's the point of having a great deep farm system is. Yes,
some of those guys you develop and you get cheap
star players that you get to operate with for a
(22:25):
six year span. But another part of that is if
you have the depth that you're seeking, you've got to
move that stuff when you have a championship window. I can't.
And that's what we're supposed to be in. That's what
you promised, That's what you and the organization. When you're ready,
you will make the moves necessary to push this theme
over the top. You haven't done that since we became ready,
(22:48):
and now when you need it more than ever, you
did nothing to improve this ball club. Nothing nothing, I mean,
I mean you haven't even added a relief pitcher this offseason,
which is always something.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
But craig Or Santos is going to be back, don't worry, Chuck.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I yeah, and I hope he's going to be very good.
But we didn't get enough of a chance to see
him last year to know that. And Matt Brash is
going to be back in a month into the season.
But they are just basically pinning all of their hopes
on those two guys that we identified as difference makers
(23:27):
last offseason. Polonco and Garver are going to be a
lot better. They are what we thought there. That's what
they're pinning their entire hopes on for this upcoming year.
And look, I do believe Garver is going to be
a lot better, and I do believe Polonko is going
to be significantly better. And I can't imagine Julio having
(23:49):
as bad a year as what he did a year ago.
And there's no way JP can have his bad because
that was terrible what we saw out of JP Crawford.
But you had opportunities here financially or trading from your
prospect list to really improve this offense, and instead you're
(24:11):
just going to bank on the team you had a
year ago that fell a little bit short making up
the difference. How do you know your starters are going
to stay healthy this whole season and you haven't had
any starting pitching depth. I mean, how do you know
that your outfield's going to stay healthy? How do you
know Victor Roblaze? I mean last year was an outlier
very much. You know, how do you know that he's
(24:33):
going to be anywhere close to as good as he
was a year ago. I mean, you could add Pete
Alonso right now, and even though neither you or I
love him, that's thirty home runs guaranteed, Marine Layer, Petriello numbers,
Tea Mobile.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Park, whatever.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
That's thirty home runs that you could add to this
lineup and you didn't do it. Yeah, Or Josh Naylor,
that's twenty five homers, ninety runs batted in. Yeah, you
only get them for one year. But aren't we trying
to win this year?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I think that's the whole point.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
And like the biggest question for me coming out of
this press conference is does he believe what he's saying
or is he really trying very very very hard to
deflect off of ownership. And I go back and forth
because I have believed for a while and we've kind
of mentioned this thought process that like almost he almost
(25:23):
prefers not to be given the money because it puts
less pressure on him. So I is he just doing
this because I got to defend ownership. I can't throw
them under the bus publicly and say that we obviously
have a restriction, even though everyone knows that you do.
You can say that and no one will bat and
I or does he actually believe that we have a
(25:46):
good offensive team. We feel like we didn't need to
do a whole lot this offseason. Did Do you think
he believes that? Or is he just trying to cover
up and hope that what he did, like you said,
the last year, ends up working and you know everything's
good again.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I'll say I do believe he's covering for ownership that
took away their promise, that renegged on their promise that
when the time came, you'll have the money that you need.
I mean, I was told to my face in a
week span by both he and Justin last year, going
into the offseason, we have money to spend, we have
(26:24):
money to spend. And then one week later they came
out and announced that the GM meetings that they don't
have the money to spend that they thought they had
to spend. So something has happened. I think the rug
got pulled out from underneath them financially. But I also
think that they are both of them guilty of and
we've seen this happen before. Falling in love with all
(26:46):
of your prospects, I couldn't dare move that single a
shortstop who's nineteen years old for just one year of
Josh Nator, What are you out of your mind? I mean,
this guy's probably going to.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Be true even though yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
We're gonna move him the center field eventually, but he
has all the hitting makings of Mike Healthy Mike Trout.
That's a we can't give that up for one year
of Josh Naylor.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Even if it does like that's like seven years from
now when that's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Like, so those things that I do believe that those
those are the realities of the of the situation. And
but I do believe that once he speaks to the media,
he's convinced himself that we have enough. But it's almost
as if he's a self fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, I made
(27:41):
the stupid decision to say fifty four percent at a
press conference. I got destroyed by everybody nationally, locally, fans,
media for saying it. And now I am intentionally trying
to win fifty four percent because you condemn yourself when
(28:01):
you say to people that actually have been following this
team and can remember stuff, Yes, when you say I
think we have a good team. A year ago, you
were saying we had a great team, the best team
that you've ever had, and that you were going to
be contending for the World Series. That's what you said
a year ago. So if you're just selling me one
(28:23):
year later, when we're supposed to be in a championship
window and we're coming off a underachieving back to back
seasons and have wasted two years of phenomenal pitching, that's
not going to be here forever because those guys are
going to become free agents and are going to want money.
And now you're telling me we've put around these guys
(28:44):
a good team. Well, that's a complete backslide from what
you felt twelve months ago about the job you did.
And I've now had multiple beyond several Mariner employees who
look me in the eyes because I've been more critical
this offseason than normally and said, you know, we're going
(29:05):
to be pretty good. If that it's not about being
pretty good, I know you're gonna be pretty good. You
got too good at pitching to not be anything lower
than pretty good. What happened to be in great You've
got to be great to make to win the World Series,
and you don't have to be great to make the playoffs.
But don't you want to give yourself a little bit
(29:27):
margin for error. Yes, a year ago at this time,
Anders Vegas said the Mariners, despite a lot of fans
saying how terrible they were, had the sixth best chance
of winning the World Series at the beginning of the year. Yep,
Las Vegas insights, who have no bias whatsoever. This isn't
Chuck Powell kissing ass or Mucky Jacobson wanting to get
(29:49):
a position with the organization and that's why he says
positive things. That is loss frickin' Vegas, who have the
only thing they're worried about is getting money on on
each side, Okay, and them saying a year ago, you
have the sixth best chance that team right there of
winning the World Series this year eighteen.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I'm looking now in Vegas inside, depending on what website
you look at, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteenth.
On this one overall, I think it just compiles all
of them. But yeah, depending on what you look at,
they're they're in the mix with the Diamondbacks, the Tiers,
the Royals, the Brewers, the Twins, the Cubs, the Guardians.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well, what I saw.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yesterday when I looked it up as the projections of
like eighty three to eighty five wins, where a year
ago it was eighty eight to ninety. Yes, so that's
Vegas saying you're five games worse on paper than what
you were a year ago. And so even last year
I predicted eighty nine wins, it wasn't a huge number
(30:53):
that I predicted for them, and they obviously fell short
of that and missed the playoffs. But this year, I mean,
it looks like an eighty five win team to me.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, So the Pakoda projections going into the year have
the Mariners and they're really bad. You don't like the
Pakoda on a terrible Okay, which ones you look at.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
For the first time, Pakota is like giving them more.
They've been underestimating them, and now this year, no, it's
a playoff team. They got him at eighty six wins of.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Making the playoffs and with a fifty eight percent chance
of making the playoffs, which is means according to their
probability charts that they are slotted into wild Card three
at this point.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
That's the best outlook I've seen or read for this
team this year. I don't I don't think that's anywhere
out of the question.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
No, it's not.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
No, all the criticism that you hear from me this offseason. Again,
I know you're pretty good. Yeah, I know there's a
chance that you will make a decent chance that you
will make the playoffs. Your pitching's too good not to
be a playof off contender. But why do we have
(32:04):
to stop short for three years in a row at
being pretty good?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Why can't we try to be great? You said we
were a draft, develop and trade organization, right, trade words?
All right, So we can't sign free agents because we're
not going to pay for them, or they don't want
to be here, or they don't want to play for
Jerry or whatever the reason is. Then you've got to draft, develop,
(32:30):
and trade. That's the organization you've become. And plenty of
teams are doing that and doing it successfully and making
it make it to the.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Playoffs, even Guardians.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
But right now you're a draft, develop and ignore organization.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Wait wait for those prospects to come up.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, and when they're ready, guess who's leaving pitching? Pitching
is leaving, yes, And so it's a really vicious cycle.
And you know, he once again fails another press conference,
and he absolutely for the first time, in my opinion, yeah,
failed the off season. Yeah, I've never felt this grim
(33:09):
about an off season. And he's they're getting destroyed for it,
and they should be getting destroyed for it. And I
don't see the redeeming quality from this entire winter.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I don't either.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Let's look big picture here for a second. Well, you
mentioned we'll have Luke Arkins on next week. I think
that's a good kind of well start this conversation asking
him about what his thoughts were in the press conference.
We can kind of dive deep into the T Mobile
Park statistics, because I know he did kind of a
deeper dive on that than I did, and kind of
competing with yours as well. But I am curious what
(33:43):
we can do our projections for the season in that episode.
But kind of bigger picture here for Jerry Depoto specifically,
if they don't make the playoffs this year, do you
think he keeps his job? Do you think he keeps
his job? And do you think he should keep his job?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
He might keep his job because of how much and
love John seems to be with him, And look, that
is a dirty secret about ownership. A lot of them
are just like keep us relevant, Yes, keep the turnstiles
moving as often as possible. You know. Others are about championships.
This feels like we've got one of those keep us
(34:19):
relevant organizations. And that's the whole fifty four percent. The
math of that is, if we go fifty four percent,
we make the playoffs more often than we don't. If
we make the playoffs more often than we don't, we
will find a way to the World Series. We can
find the way to the World Series, then we got
a shot at winning one. That's sort of the approach
right out of the mouth of Jerry Depoto. That's the
approach that they have taken. So so, yeah, what was there?
(34:46):
What was it?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Do you think he should keep his job and do
you think he will keep his tub?
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Right?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
So, I think that he's doing what they want him
to do, and he's doing it pretty well.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
So if they win eighty five games, it's the playoffs
by one or two games, he'll probably come back.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Now I will say for the first time, definitively he shouldn't.
Even this past offseason. I said, if you remember I
do that there's an argument to be made to get
rid of him, Yes, right now. And it's not because
I don't think he's done great things. I think he's
got great qualities. I think they draft well under him.
They obviously are good at finding pitching. He's great at
(35:24):
finding relief pitching. Those one hundred mile per hour throwers
that nobody thinks they can develop, they develop in here.
So I think there's some really tremendous qualities about him.
He's rebuilt the farm system from thirty to first and
then back down to twenty and then back up to
first again in a very short period of time. It's
(35:44):
some impressive stuff that he does. But we're not hanging
banners for number one ranked farm systems. You've done the
hard work, well, the easy work. This is where Dave
Dombrowski becomes a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
He rides into your town. Well, you've got the foundation set,
and all he does is say, I know who the
great players are, Rice Harper, you and I can pick
what David Rowski does. I know the great players are,
let me go get them and I'll give them whatever
they want, and then we'll win for a little while,
and then when you're ready to rebuild, I'm out. Of here. Yeah,
(36:18):
so where are the championship moves? Where are the moves
to put you over the top. And I can't emphasize
this enough. I know I've said it every day on
my show for months, and every day on this podcast,
every week on this podcast. I don't care if you
want to throw a little loop around your ten twelve
favorite prospects, Yeah, don't move them. Then I'm all about
(36:40):
a long term success organization. Two. I would do the
same thing from that standpoint. But you can't do it
with your entire farm system. You just can't do it.
And you can't let Josh Naylor go to the Diamondbacks.
You got to make a better move than that.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yes, And like for those who think, oh well, if
you don't move any of the top ten, then the
rest of you guys aren't worth anything.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
That's not true at all, not true at all.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Like, like you just mentioned, Josh Naylor was moved for
like a top twenty prospect in the.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Slade Chaconi, who was the last I saw, was fourteenth
and he had a failed first season with the Diamondbacks
this year, and then they gave him a competitive balanced
second round draft pick as well.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Why couldn't you have done that?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
We can't even Justin and Jerry are so you know,
Twitter paged with prospects. They're in love with guys they
haven't even drafted yet.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Yeah, it's like, oh, we're gonna get this guy because
we have a third overall pick next season. And that's
the other thing you're gonna get more, Like trade them,
you're gonna get more.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
You have the third overall pick next year.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah. If they were asking for the third overall pick, no,
I say no. Yeah, but when you're talking like a
second round pick and you have.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Four shortstops in your top ten, you're not. They're not
gonna all play shortstop. They can't even all play it'll infield.
So like, come on, you can get rid of one.
Go get a bat that's ready now for little rise guys.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
You go a Royo for Naylor and that's that.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Deals that's way more than the Diamondbacks off you might yeah,
you might get more than that.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, you don't even have to go that good. No,
so he but they won't trade any of their guys.
That is very obvious that they they were asked about them. Well,
we kind of like him.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
So that's where I go back to does he actually
think that this team doesn't have holes?
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Like he doesn't. I think he believes that they can
be They can be.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Just good enough, canby, yes, not that they will can bey.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
He believes he has a good team.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Okay, great, here's where I'll give it to you.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Anders.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I think we have a leader of our organization that
does not care to be great. Yeah, and that is
very disturbing. And that is where I check out because
this is professional sports and if it's not, it's all
about pursuing greatness. Absolutely, there is no middle ground. There
(39:12):
aren't awards. I mean, the Buffalo Bills made it to
four Super Bowls and they're considered Oh, it's a punchline
and a joke.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
The same team made it to four super Bowls and
it's a punchline and a joke.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
And the team that can't beat Patrick Mahomes, that's what
they're known for, the team that can't be the chiefs this.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
If you didn't get into this to be great, then
get out of it. Yeah, because you've done the hard work,
You've put the foundation together to be good even without
any moves made this offseason. Where are the moves that
make you great, And how did you not get into
this to make those moves? That's where you're like, finally
(39:52):
we're in a position where I can go get something
awesome on this team. How are you not driven that?
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I don't know?
Speaker 3 (40:03):
And you mentioned this earlier too, Like we haven't even
talked about the players aspect to this. Like there's been
a pretty public riff between a few of the players
in the front office on this team. And if they
were pissed off before, can you imagine how they're feeling
now about how Like they're the ones that are doing
(40:24):
the work every single day. They're the ones that believe
that they agree with Jerry, we have a good team,
but go make us better.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Go Wait, there was a public rift two years ago.
Cal finished the season exactly they did it this year. Yeah,
they made the Rose Arena and the turner moves that
they did deadline they and they actually did not look
like they were going to make the playoffs at the time.
So I commend them for that. And they did get
a guy on multiple years so that they weren't just
(40:54):
using him as a rent right down the stretch. It
was a good move. I don't even like the player anymore. More.
But it was a good move at the time and
it made a lot of sense. I think bounce back
and it does carry over into this year. But yeah,
he's still got to go down to spring training and
face dudes who already think. I mean, Cal Rawley gave
(41:16):
up Scott Boris as his agent, and I think that
was because Boris wasn't going to let him resign here.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Boris does not want to let him resign here.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Do not want any of his clients coming to Seattle
because they don't spend money.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I'm not going to offer the most now.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
And so he does. He was going to talk Cal.
I think Cal got rid of him because Boris was like,
you're not resigning there, and Cal's like, well, I'll make
my own decisions. And now, all of a sudden, if
you're Cal, like, get Boris back, If this is really
the way we're going to operate things, you got to
be kidding me.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I'm not gonna want to stay here.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah, I can't imagine that he would. JP's had issues
with it in the past.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
George a couple of times, not necessarily with Jerry to Poto,
but kind of just how they operate things. He had
a riff of Scott Service when he was taking him
out of games and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I don't think he keeps in touch with them in
the offseason at all. I think when he sees them
in spring training it's like the first time and he's
very aloof with them. Yeah. So I mean that's actually
been a constant under Scott's service. He always finds a way,
even when he's got Dix like Winker on the roster,
he finds a way to keep the locker room together. Yes,
finds different leaders to lead for the right thing. That
(42:33):
was one thing he was very good at. Yes, But
I don't know, I don't know as angry as the
fans are, as angry as the media is here is
the national media is angry with Amar.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Yeah, and I just thought about this too. Can you
imagine the position they're putting Dan Wilson in too, Like
I understand, maybe he wouldn't have been offered a managerial
job anywhere else, so like, yeah, he can he can
kind of get away with this, but he's he's the
guy that's going to take a lot of this fall
for if and when the team starts off slow and
(43:06):
they have struggles offensively, just like they did last year,
and it's like.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Oh, it wasn't service. Now Dan Wilson's doing the same thing,
Like they're throwing him under the bus now as well.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
And well, they're really counting on to have been that
obstinate and to have had Edgar Martinez there and willing
to help, and now all of a sudden.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
He's not going to be well, he's not going to
be there, he's not going to travel with the team.
I don't think so well.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
They're putting it off well Kevin Sitzer. Yeah, they're putting
an awful lot in the hitting instructors, improving this offense
going forward, and that's smart. And do you think that
would I'm glad that they did. They have to be
better than what they were a year ago. But like
I've meant another thing I mentioned nearly every podcast, where's
the Corbin Burns move? Where is the move where you
(43:52):
know you have a weakness. I know you only get
him for one year, but man, Mariner fans sure would
like a baseball season where they're up ten games, not
in June, up ten games at the end of August
and get to play. Let's set our rotation for the
playoffs all through September. They're going to have a fighters
(44:16):
chance to get into the playoffs this year. Maybe they can.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Even back their way toward ninety wins division championship, you know.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Division championship. If things really fall, you get two or
three career years out of offensive hitters and you keep
your pitching healthy. Maybe you do, as you mentioned a
couple of podcasts ago, you get the suspicion that maybe
it all comes together.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
I do have a weird suspicion that that's going to
be the case.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Maybe that does happen, but you're not building it for
that to happen.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
And we've mentioned this before too. Just because it works
doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. And
then oppositely, just because it didn't work doesn't mean it
wasn't the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Right, So I thought Coulton Wong was the right thing.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
I know, you just but it didn't work.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, samething were last year, Blanka and Carver.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
And frankly, let's point that out as well. If I'm
if I'm considered late to the party to be ripping
on Jerry, then I will point out why. I Mean,
we had an off season where Gino Suarez and Jesse
Winker were added. Yeah, to this team. We had an
off season where Colton Wong coming off a four war season,
and Taoscar Hernandez were added to this team. We had
(45:25):
an off season where, yes, I know Sworez left, but
Polonko and Garver came in and it felt like to me,
a very creative process under the circumstances because you weren't
allowed to spend. So I felt okay with last off season,
felt great about the previous.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I agree on previous to. Yeah, so this is but when.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
You have Donovan Solano as your solution to your worst
offensive season you've had since the rebuild began, it was
worse than twenty twenty. Yeah, this is the worst. And
your answer is Donovan Solano. Nobody can like that. And
so this is my first time saying terrible, inexcusable And
(46:09):
if you misread the market, that's your job.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
That is your job, and that's something to remember too.
And not only was it bad, he he just keeps
opening his mouth. It makes it worse every single time.
I don't know, maybe there's a world where Justin Hollander
is going to be the kind of guy that does
all these interviews from now on, because I think that
would be so much better to hear as a fan.
That's the other reason why I just I get my
(46:34):
gears grinded with Jerry Depoto is like, I feel like
he just talks down to everyone, and I hate rooting
for someone like that. I want to feel like my
president of baseball operations is making moves to make the
team better and understands why fans want this team to
win so bad, not telling them that, No, you think
the offense is bad, you're wrong, It's good based on
our metrics.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Well, John Schneider's worse.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, all right, so, but.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Why does John Schnider have have the same title? Because
he won a title and he went to two Super
Bowls and when he had it, and every year, but
even now, it's like every year when he has a
chance to try to go for something, its great, he goes.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
For he makes the move.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Yeah, he has a salary cap, which is even more
of a reason why.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yeah, you maybe wouldn't, but.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah, but that's why he gets a little bit more
of a pass than what Jerry does. But you know,
I don't care if you're making the right moves. Yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
He could be an ass like.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
So I'll just say it's either gonna work for him
and he gets those improvements that he was expecting the
numbers from a year ago from some guys, and it
works and then we're okay with that. Okay, you won yeah,
or it doesn't work and he goes, I So that's
(47:53):
so I'm saying, you don't really have to deal with
this anymore, because it's one thing to hear somebody condescend
who's actually excelling. Alright, it's another thing somebody floundering and condescending.
And that is why your gears are so sufficiently ground.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Thank you, Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Well that well, like I said, next week will be
kind of a wrap up of the stove episode with
Luke Arkins, who I always love having on with us.
We can do a deeper dive into the T mobile numbers.
We'll do our predictions going into the year, because it
seems like this is our roster. There's I mean, Bragman
and Alonso still have yet to be signed, so.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Please that's not happening. Please, I might at this point
settle for Brendan Rodgers. At least that's a at least
that's a second baseman who gold gloved two years ago,
who was a top three pick in the draft not
long ago, that you could probably get for two million dollars. Yeah,
at least that's a second basement, that second base every day.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I wouldn't mind it at all.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yeah. Anyway, all right, Well.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
That does it for me? Anything else for you?
Speaker 1 (48:56):
No, we'll wrap it up. We'll talk to you again
next week, and so yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Hang in there. I will try.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
That's how I can. And you're listening, hang in there.
I still think we're going to have a competitive baseball
team this year with a really solid shot at making
to the playoffs. The fury is that there's no reason
why we should have to stop short at being pretty good.
Why can't we go for great? What is holding it up?
(49:27):
But we'll talk more about it next week, So enjoy
and thank you for listening to Stove
Stove.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
What a kind of name is that?
Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's the name of a Mariner's podcast starring Anders Hearst
Chuck Powell. And we've been doing it for years. I
would think that it would be part of your vocabulary.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Two years to be exact.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yes, And by the way, thank you very much Andershurst
for defending the Stove podcast and the face of haters
like Ian Furness who don't understand the glory of it.
And I'll say the same thing to you, Chris Crawford.
I heard your nasty comments the other day as well. Yeah,
we're proud of our Stove podcast. Andrews does a great
(00:38):
job with it. He works hard to sound informed, educated
and interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I am not informed, educated or interesting, but I sound
that way.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
That's all I care about.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And so I'm I It did me proud to listen
and have him talk about it and promote it. And so,
I don't know, maybe you're just jealous for news.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
He wants to be on it, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, Yeah, I don't think Ian would ever accept an
invitory no to be on a baseball podcast with me.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I think he's happy that he has one. And then
the Mollywop guys on his own show to talk about it,
so he can just shuffle it off because boy does
does this team make him mad?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
And he's not alone.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, nothing to good, nothing but good stuff talk about today. Yeah,
I mean, nobody's gonna get angry or cical or critical today. No,
there's no this week.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
There's no talking down to fans. There's there's no talking
down to media saying that everyone else is wrong for
what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
No, none of that this week. Just sigh, big side.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Big side. To start the program today, Well, welcome in,
Thank you. It is the Stove Podcast. It is our
Mariners offseason podcast, and honestly, we normally record it on Thursday,
but there have been some stuff that's happened, so we
are recording on Tuesday here today. Uh and uh and
so we have pretty much two big major topics. It
(02:02):
actually one major topic, but another topic chronologically that came
first that we probably should touch it.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
And as is a like annual tradition on the Stove Podcast,
right after we record last week, a big move, a
move happens.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, it turns out we.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Got away with it every week this year.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah, I was like expecting it, like okay, just watch now,
they're gonna trade Castillo. But right after we record this episode,
and then it ends up happening that right after we
finished recording last week, the Mariners re signed Jorge Polonco
to a one year, seven million dollars deal with seven
hundred and fifty thousand dollars investing options and incentives. They
(02:43):
bring him back and say he's going to play third base.
There's a couple things to unpack there. What are your
thoughts on the return of Jorge Polonko.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
You know, I like the idea of adding him so
much that I obviously can't now hate it. I mean,
baseball fans have to understand you are going to have
an off year, and maybe he hit the wall. Maybe
he's the it's the Eddie George wall, where I'm a
good player one day and then I turned thirty and
(03:15):
I'm not anymore. I mean, there's a possibility that that
exists here. There's a possibility that he really struggled with
what we now know is the most difficult park to
hit in in Major League Baseball and maybe had a
really hard time adjusting to that, and so and maybe
he'll continue to do that. But I will say, for
(03:35):
this time of the year, considering where they are, and
I still feel they have holes remaining to have plugged
one of them. And there's some debate as to whether
or not he's a third baseman, but I feel, you know,
as strongly as I felt about him when they made
the trade for the positive. I'm just not going to
(03:56):
say after one year he's terrible, he's washed, terrible signing.
I don't mind this, okay, And I actually think it's
I like the idea of employing third base more than
I do putting him back at sex.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I was gonna ask you that because there's a lot
of people saying, oh, all of a sudden, he's gonna
find some arm strength to play a third base who
hasn't played that many games there in his career, and
you know he sucked at second base. What makes you
think he's gonna be good at third? The corner infield's
positions are traditionally a lot easier to defend. You don't
have to have as much range movement, and I think
(04:32):
that's going to help coming off his injury with his knee.
The biggest thing will be the arm strength. But we've
seen third baseman succeed without elite arm strength. Kyle seekers
one of them. He was one of the best defensive
third basemen in the game for a five six year stretch,
and he didn't have elite arm strength, but he was
so good at anticipation and his positioning, and he had
(04:55):
good range as well, that he made it work and
he was a really good defensive third baseman. So I
am not concerned about his move to third base.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And I'm with you.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I think I feel more confident that they say he's
going to play third base, that he's going to be
a good defensive third baseman than if they slotted him
minute second.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Plus.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
You know, I've seen him play second and he wasn't good,
and so maybe it is time, with the different knee
injuries and the hamstrings, that you do move him to
third base. And we've also seen Perry Hill take Geno
and turn him into Gold Glove caliber and even Josh
Ross was I mean, he was very good, yeah, defensively
(05:35):
a year ago, and he's somebody that bounced back from
third to second. So yes, there are some concerns, but
I have fewer concerns about him playing defensively at third.
And I just I mean, this is a professional line
drive hitter. Yeah, I mean, I don't have the numbers.
I never do, by the way, have numbers in front
of me. But his doubles total was atrocious a year ago,
(05:56):
and he's just been a doubles machine his entire major
league career. So I think that we unfortunately endured the
worst year Jore Polanco has had in his career. And
I just I mean, he's still just thirty one years old.
It's not like he's thirty eight like somebody else they signed,
So thirty one should not suggest that he's washed up.
(06:17):
But we've seen that happen before, it can happen. But
I'm just going to believe that he had kind of
a strong finish the last year, maybe figured out some
things about the park. Maybe Edgar and Dan and Kevin
Seitzer are going to sing just the tune that he
needs to hear. Yep. So I think it's an okay.
I think I think it's a pretty good decision at
(06:38):
this point in the process. But I really felt anderws
it was going to lead to Okay, now what else? Yeah,
and that's the issue.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, just one more thing on Polanco real quick, like
you can still I'm with you. I think of all
the options that were available at that time, that is
better than what we had, Like you feel it theoretically
fill as a hole. I'm not gonna say it's gonna
be a world beater at third base and he's gonna
be one of the best third basement in the league,
(07:07):
and that that's for years to come. Now, I'm it's
better than what you had. He's better than Austin Shenton.
It's better, at least better to rely on that than
Austin Shenton going into opening day, but.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Worse than better than Shinton.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's kind of where it's at.
But I still do have concerns about his offensive profile.
We mentioned this on our last episode when talking about
T Mobile Park because looking at the I forget the
guy's name that wrote at the article on Mike Petrielo Petriello,
Yes on T Mobile Park, Like the kind of home
run strikeout guys are the ones that aren't affected as
(07:43):
much by T Mobile Park, but the gap to gap
guys are, and that's kind of what Jorge Polanco is.
So I'm still concerned whether that is a big factor
in the reason why he had such a bad year
last year is because he was playing that in that
park for eighty one games or eighty two games, eighty
one games, and I just I don't know if that's
(08:04):
going to turn around this year. So I do still
have concerns about his offensive profile, but he's better than
what we had, and you just mentioned it. The real
issue is that they basically were like, yeah, we're basically done.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Now this is our team.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
The report from Adam View comes out that this probably
is their team going into Opening Day, and then of
course yesterday we had Jerry Depoto have his kind of
press conference indicating that it was the end of the
off season for the Seattle Mariners.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Embarrassing. Yeah, just embarrassing. I've been saying throughout the process,
if this is it, that it's an F minus. I
will edit that a little bit because you didn't lose anything, Okay,
you know off of the Rosses, the point that you
feel like, you know, the Astros lost Kyle Tucker. Yeah,
they're goodness sake, and now they made other ads, so
(08:52):
they're not an F right. But you didn't lose anything
from the team of significance. Yeah, Josh Rojas Nah, but
there's no way to give them more than an ha F.
So I'm going to take the minus off of it
because you didn't lose anything. But there's no way that
I can give them anything above a fail when you
have as many holes offensively as you had bottom ten
(09:15):
in baseball and all main categories, maybe not WRC plus
or some stat that your cherry pick Advanced Metrics, Advance
Metrics stat that your cherry pick, so it doesn't look
as bad as it is. How about we just go
off of bottom ten and runs scored in Major League
Baseball and lost a couple of people off the team.
(09:39):
And I understand those decisions, but obviously you could have
gotten a lot better offensively this year and just for
whatever reason, chose not to.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, I just that's a big issue for me.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
We'll get into the Depoto press conference here in a second,
but the fact that this is their offseason, it seems
like at this point and it's being like kind of
twisted that like Jorge Polanka was an addition. He was
on your team last year, right, and so was Victor Roblos.
So is Randy Roseraina. We'll hear from him in a second,
but he mentions the additions of Victor Roblos, Randy Roseraina,
(10:12):
Donovan Solano, and Jorge Polanco. As if that is what
your off season was. No, Randy Rosemino was on your
team to end the year last year, Victor Robos is
on your team for half the year last year, and
Jorge Polanc was on your team for the entire year
last year. They're not additions. These are players that you
had last year when you had a bad offense up
for debate. I guess, uh, your audition was Donovan Slana.
(10:35):
That is the addition to this team, Like that's the
only thing.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
He's the fourth edition that you've made, right, Like, oh
that's that? Okay? Yeah, professional hitter, you know, built like
a marshmallow. You know, even if he's the platoon first
baseman because you picked up an exotic sexy d h. Yeah,
then I can live with that. Even if he has
a roll of short side platoon first base, I can
(11:01):
live with that. But for that to be the only
addition to the team, it's embarrassing. And what Jim Bowden
said on our airwaves a couple of weeks ago that
we talked about ye on the podcast last week holds true.
It makes me want to throw up, and it's just
not a championship move. It's the move of an organization
(11:22):
that is okay with being pretty good, and that's unacceptable.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah, well, we know what Chuck Powell feels about the offseason.
Let's hear what the Mariners president of baseball operations thinks
about the off season additions, specifically on the offensive side
of the ball. We start with Curtis Crabtree of Fox
thirteen his question regarding where he expects improvement to come
from the offense this year.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Hey, Jerry, given that you haven't added a ton of
offensive pieces to the roster this offseason, where do you
see from the group that you have the improvement level coming?
Is it Hanneger and Garber bouncing back? And so what
does that look like?
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You know where?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Where?
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Where do you see that stretch coming from? Since you
guys were you know, top of the league in strikeouts
and low you know, second lowest and average last year,
how does that manifest itself?
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Well, I mean, how much time do you have is
the easy answer to that question. I think there is
the reality of our offense and then the perception of
our offense.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
And you know, our.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Offense, we we play in a tough ballpark to hit it.
Our offense has generally been above average based on advanced
metrics WRC plus things like that for a number of
years now. You know, the last three years, we've actually
had a very stable offense, particularly good on the road,
I think, one of the top ten in MLB. When
(12:43):
we're on the road and at home we play in
a tough run scoring environment that that really benefits our
pitching staff and and our players' position players have been
asked to find ways and and we've generally done that.
You know, we've turned it into one of the best
home records in the league. So, you know, we we
try not to to think too much about how to
(13:05):
reconstruct a team for our ballpark. It's working, you know,
the way it is. We just have to figure out
how to make it work better. And you know, our
team in general, we strike out more at home than
on the road. I think that's also true of our opponents.
And and you know what we have done is we've
we've built a team of players that on their own,
you know, they're they're very good. And the attrition or
(13:29):
potential for players to bounce back from down years. You know,
we had a few guys last year who came out
and didn't have their best season and and or got
slow off to slow starts. You know, we added Victor
Roblaze in mid season, we added Randy Rose Arena at
the trade deadline. We get a full season from what
we hope is a resurgent JP Crawford, and and you know,
(13:52):
we get perhaps the second half of Julio rather than
the first, and and that goes a long way. You know,
you add that to some of the players we have
who had breakout seasons like Luke Rayley, excellent seasons like
cal Raley. We have a good offensive team and we
didn't feel like we needed to do a whole lot,
but to find ways to support the group that we had.
(14:14):
And you know, I know the off season has been
long and seemingly slow. We feel and I said this
at season's end, we do feel like we made a
lot of progress last year. And you know, the additions
of a Rosa Raina Roblaze, Solano and a healthy whore
Ape Bolonco, with what we think will be bounce back
(14:34):
seasons from a couple of guys who didn't have their
best years stand to be positives for us.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Okay, lots unpacked there.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
That is probably the most Jerry Depoto answer I've heard
of any question because a lot of what he said
was true about the good home record.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, hard ballpark to produce offense.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
In Petriello did him a favor exact as it turned
out exactly, so, I think because he's never been that
fourth right no about how bad the ballpark is to
hit it right, And now Petriello makes news, and oh
I can use that in my argument.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Now everyone else knows it. Yeah, as if we didn't before. Yeah,
But and there's some other things about like expecting bounce
back years from Julio possibly from you know, healthy JP Crawford.
Like those are things that yeah, if you said just
that kind of stuff, Okay, great, well, I would have
been all in on that, Like that's easy to defend,
(15:34):
Like it wouldn't have been the best answer of all time,
but it's fine. But the stuff that I've marked down here,
the first thing perception versus reality about our offense that
like Jackson put it very well yesterday and Softian Dick,
that's basically the definition of gaslighting, Like, oh yeah, you
guys have a perception of what our offense is, but
(15:55):
the reality is totally different. You have no idea what
you're talking about to fans, media, anyone who thinks that
the offense is bad, basically everyone.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
By the way, they blamed the media for telling the
fans something that's not true. I don't know how to
get around this. I mean, there is no way you
can explain last season as a good offensive season. I mean,
you didn't hit over too thirty. Let's just use an
old school batting average and not cherry pick some analytics number.
(16:26):
You didn't hit over two thirty for a month until August.
That was the first time that you hit over excuse me, September.
September was the first time that you hit over two thirty.
As a team. You led the league in strikeouts the
second straight year. You were second to last in batting average.
(16:47):
You were bottom five in ops, you were bottom ten
in runs scored. Let us also point out you were
a team because your pitching was so great that was
in the race the entire year Offensively were teams that
had given up, traded away their best players, had decided
to go youth movements. The rest of the year, you're
(17:08):
lumped in with the Marlins and the Nationals and the Pirates.
That's the company that you kept offensively last year. And
so yes, your hot month at the end of the year,
coupled with everybody else giving up on trying to win,
settled you somewhere that wasn't worst in the league. Most
(17:29):
of the season, you were operating as the worst offensive
teams in Major League Baseball. And so to try to
characterize it as we were good last year and this
has just turned into a propaganda against us that's insane.
And you know, I've defended Jerry Depoto four years and
(17:51):
I'll still defend some of the things that he does
and I always will, but there's no defense for this.
You are a bad offensive team. And now you you
are gas lighting all the media and all the fans
into thinking that you did more in the offseason than
what we realize. And you did it to a team
(18:11):
that wasn't that far away. That was a bad offensive team.
It wasn't an average offensive team, it wasn't a pretty
good offensive team. That was a bad offensive team, and
you added Donovan Solano to it, and you want us
to buy that you did enough this offseason to make
a difference.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Second thing that I noted above average based on advanced metrics.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Thoughts on that again, Hey, Cherry picked a number at
WRC plus, and yes, the numbers on the road were
certainly better, and over the course of the last three
to four seasons they have ended up close to close
to the top ten as an offensive team until this
(18:54):
past year. Right, but here's another thing that has to
be pointed out. You never hit until August. Yeah, you
are always climbing out of a hole. Until last year
you actually somehow gained a ten game lead even though
you weren't hitting. But you never hit until the summer.
That's also an issue. I mean, we were not imagining
(19:17):
it every time we came in talking about a three
to two loss that we did not create enough offense.
I think Luke Arkins, our friend who's probably gonna be
on next week's podcast, pointed out that there were seventy
seven games with three runs or less that the Mariners
played in last year and on the road they won
two out of thirty six of those games went two
(19:40):
and thirty four. Yeah, in those games.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well, and that's another thing to point out, Like at.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Thirty six games on the road where you're better that
you scored three runs or fewer.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
And this is a classic Jerry Depoto thing to do,
where he makes a stat that is true, where your
offense is better on the road, but he tries to
kind of sell it that's the reason why our offense
isn't bad. But then oh, we lean on our pitching,
but your pitching's bad on the road, Like you had
a worst offense. You had a worse road record than
(20:10):
you did a home record, but you're trying to blame
that t Mobile park is the reason why your offense
is bad. Like it's just moving from stat to stat,
trying to just make things seem one way when they're
actually another perception versus reality.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yes, like he was trying to distort the realities that
you were a bottom ten, no getting around it, right,
bottom ten offense in Major League Baseball and the only
bottom ten offense that was actually in the playoff hunt. Yes,
from the beginning of the year till the end.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Of the year.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
And like Dick Fame said this in reaction to this,
as well, you can't have it both ways, Jerry. You
can't say that, you know, oh, our offense is good
on the road, and so our home ballpark is uh
is negating all that that's the reason why our offense
is bad. But then when your pitching's average to a
slightly above average on the road, but then elite at home,
(21:04):
say that you're starting pitching is one of the best
in baseball, and we're building our team around that like
it's one of the other, right, And I tend to
lean that it's the second one. That you have a
lead starting pitching, build your team around that. But you're
bad offensively your last.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Year, Yes, And you were mediocre the year before, and
you were pretty good the year before that, and yet
you're terrible every year prior to the summer. Yes, and
that's half the season. Yeah, So it is it's just
made up junk, is all it is. Yeah, I mean,
and it's trying to the only thing that I can
(21:43):
chalk it up to is stuff that we've talked about
all winter long waiting for a move, and that is
you're not allowed to spend, so that's been made clear.
There are ways around it, but that means you've got
to trade prospects, and you've got a wealth of them.
Even Keith Law ranked you number one farm system, and
(22:04):
that guy usually underrates the Seattle Mariners so there is
absolute truth to out good your farm system is. But
that's the point of having a great deep farm system is. Yes,
some of those guys you develop and you get cheap
star players that you get to operate with for a
(22:25):
six year span. But another part of that is if
you have the depth that you're seeking, you've got to
move that stuff when you have a championship window. I can't.
And that's what we're supposed to be in. That's what
you promised, That's what you and the organization. When you're ready,
you will make the moves necessary to push this theme
over the top. You haven't done that since we became ready,
(22:48):
and now when you need it more than ever, you
did nothing to improve this ball club. Nothing nothing, I mean,
I mean you haven't even added a relief pitcher this offseason,
which is always something.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
But craig Or Santos is going to be back, don't worry, Chuck.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I yeah, and I hope he's going to be very good.
But we didn't get enough of a chance to see
him last year to know that. And Matt Brash is
going to be back in a month into the season.
But they are just basically pinning all of their hopes
on those two guys that we identified as difference makers
(23:27):
last offseason. Polonco and Garver are going to be a
lot better. They are what we thought there. That's what
they're pinning their entire hopes on for this upcoming year.
And look, I do believe Garver is going to be
a lot better, and I do believe Polonko is going
to be significantly better. And I can't imagine Julio having
(23:49):
as bad a year as what he did a year ago.
And there's no way JP can have his bad because
that was terrible what we saw out of JP Crawford.
But you had opportunities here financially or trading from your
prospect list to really improve this offense, and instead you're
(24:11):
just going to bank on the team you had a
year ago that fell a little bit short making up
the difference. How do you know your starters are going
to stay healthy this whole season and you haven't had
any starting pitching depth. I mean, how do you know
that your outfield's going to stay healthy? How do you
know Victor Roblaze? I mean last year was an outlier
very much. You know, how do you know that he's
(24:33):
going to be anywhere close to as good as he
was a year ago. I mean, you could add Pete
Alonso right now, and even though neither you or I
love him, that's thirty home runs guaranteed, Marine Layer, Petriello numbers,
Tea Mobile.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Park, whatever.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
That's thirty home runs that you could add to this
lineup and you didn't do it. Yeah, Or Josh Naylor,
that's twenty five homers, ninety runs batted in. Yeah, you
only get them for one year. But aren't we trying
to win this year?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I think that's the whole point.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
And like the biggest question for me coming out of
this press conference is does he believe what he's saying
or is he really trying very very very hard to
deflect off of ownership. And I go back and forth
because I have believed for a while and we've kind
of mentioned this thought process that like almost he almost
(25:23):
prefers not to be given the money because it puts
less pressure on him. So I is he just doing
this because I got to defend ownership. I can't throw
them under the bus publicly and say that we obviously
have a restriction, even though everyone knows that you do.
You can say that and no one will bat and
I or does he actually believe that we have a
(25:46):
good offensive team. We feel like we didn't need to
do a whole lot this offseason. Did Do you think
he believes that? Or is he just trying to cover
up and hope that what he did, like you said,
the last year, ends up working and you know everything's
good again.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I'll say I do believe he's covering for ownership that
took away their promise, that renegged on their promise that
when the time came, you'll have the money that you need.
I mean, I was told to my face in a
week span by both he and Justin last year, going
into the offseason, we have money to spend, we have
(26:24):
money to spend. And then one week later they came
out and announced that the GM meetings that they don't
have the money to spend that they thought they had
to spend. So something has happened. I think the rug
got pulled out from underneath them financially. But I also
think that they are both of them guilty of and
we've seen this happen before. Falling in love with all
(26:46):
of your prospects, I couldn't dare move that single a
shortstop who's nineteen years old for just one year of
Josh Nator, What are you out of your mind? I mean,
this guy's probably going to.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Be true even though yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
We're gonna move him the center field eventually, but he
has all the hitting makings of Mike Healthy Mike Trout.
That's a we can't give that up for one year
of Josh Naylor.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Even if it does like that's like seven years from
now when that's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Like, so those things that I do believe that those
those are the realities of the of the situation. And
but I do believe that once he speaks to the media,
he's convinced himself that we have enough. But it's almost
as if he's a self fulfilling prophecy. Yeah, I made
(27:41):
the stupid decision to say fifty four percent at a
press conference. I got destroyed by everybody nationally, locally, fans,
media for saying it. And now I am intentionally trying
to win fifty four percent because you condemn yourself when
(28:01):
you say to people that actually have been following this
team and can remember stuff, Yes, when you say I
think we have a good team. A year ago, you
were saying we had a great team, the best team
that you've ever had, and that you were going to
be contending for the World Series. That's what you said
a year ago. So if you're just selling me one
(28:23):
year later, when we're supposed to be in a championship
window and we're coming off a underachieving back to back
seasons and have wasted two years of phenomenal pitching, that's
not going to be here forever because those guys are
going to become free agents and are going to want money.
And now you're telling me we've put around these guys
(28:44):
a good team. Well, that's a complete backslide from what
you felt twelve months ago about the job you did.
And I've now had multiple beyond several Mariner employees who
look me in the eyes because I've been more critical
this offseason than normally and said, you know, we're going
(29:05):
to be pretty good. If that it's not about being
pretty good, I know you're gonna be pretty good. You
got too good at pitching to not be anything lower
than pretty good. What happened to be in great You've
got to be great to make to win the World Series,
and you don't have to be great to make the playoffs.
But don't you want to give yourself a little bit
(29:27):
margin for error. Yes, a year ago at this time,
Anders Vegas said the Mariners, despite a lot of fans
saying how terrible they were, had the sixth best chance
of winning the World Series at the beginning of the year. Yep,
Las Vegas insights, who have no bias whatsoever. This isn't
Chuck Powell kissing ass or Mucky Jacobson wanting to get
(29:49):
a position with the organization and that's why he says
positive things. That is loss frickin' Vegas, who have the
only thing they're worried about is getting money on on
each side, Okay, and them saying a year ago, you
have the sixth best chance that team right there of
winning the World Series this year eighteen.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I'm looking now in Vegas inside, depending on what website
you look at, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteenth.
On this one overall, I think it just compiles all
of them. But yeah, depending on what you look at,
they're they're in the mix with the Diamondbacks, the Tiers,
the Royals, the Brewers, the Twins, the Cubs, the Guardians.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well, what I saw.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yesterday when I looked it up as the projections of
like eighty three to eighty five wins, where a year
ago it was eighty eight to ninety. Yes, so that's
Vegas saying you're five games worse on paper than what
you were a year ago. And so even last year
I predicted eighty nine wins, it wasn't a huge number
(30:53):
that I predicted for them, and they obviously fell short
of that and missed the playoffs. But this year, I mean,
it looks like an eighty five win team to me.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, So the Pakoda projections going into the year have
the Mariners and they're really bad. You don't like the
Pakoda on a terrible Okay, which ones you look at.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
For the first time, Pakota is like giving them more.
They've been underestimating them, and now this year, no, it's
a playoff team. They got him at eighty six wins of.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Making the playoffs and with a fifty eight percent chance
of making the playoffs, which is means according to their
probability charts that they are slotted into wild Card three
at this point.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
That's the best outlook I've seen or read for this
team this year. I don't I don't think that's anywhere
out of the question.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
No, it's not.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
No, all the criticism that you hear from me this offseason. Again,
I know you're pretty good. Yeah, I know there's a
chance that you will make a decent chance that you
will make the playoffs. Your pitching's too good not to
be a playof off contender. But why do we have
(32:04):
to stop short for three years in a row at
being pretty good?
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Why can't we try to be great? You said we
were a draft, develop and trade organization, right, trade words?
All right, So we can't sign free agents because we're
not going to pay for them, or they don't want
to be here, or they don't want to play for
Jerry or whatever the reason is. Then you've got to draft, develop,
(32:30):
and trade. That's the organization you've become. And plenty of
teams are doing that and doing it successfully and making
it make it to the.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Playoffs, even Guardians.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
But right now you're a draft, develop and ignore organization.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Wait wait for those prospects to come up.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, and when they're ready, guess who's leaving pitching? Pitching
is leaving, yes, And so it's a really vicious cycle.
And you know, he once again fails another press conference,
and he absolutely for the first time, in my opinion, yeah,
failed the off season. Yeah, I've never felt this grim
(33:09):
about an off season. And he's they're getting destroyed for it,
and they should be getting destroyed for it. And I
don't see the redeeming quality from this entire winter.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I don't either.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Let's look big picture here for a second. Well, you
mentioned we'll have Luke Arkins on next week. I think
that's a good kind of well start this conversation asking
him about what his thoughts were in the press conference.
We can kind of dive deep into the T Mobile
Park statistics, because I know he did kind of a
deeper dive on that than I did, and kind of
competing with yours as well. But I am curious what
(33:43):
we can do our projections for the season in that episode.
But kind of bigger picture here for Jerry Depoto specifically,
if they don't make the playoffs this year, do you
think he keeps his job? Do you think he keeps
his job? And do you think he should keep his job?
Speaker 1 (33:58):
He might keep his job because of how much and
love John seems to be with him, And look, that
is a dirty secret about ownership. A lot of them
are just like keep us relevant, Yes, keep the turnstiles
moving as often as possible. You know. Others are about championships.
This feels like we've got one of those keep us
(34:19):
relevant organizations. And that's the whole fifty four percent. The
math of that is, if we go fifty four percent,
we make the playoffs more often than we don't. If
we make the playoffs more often than we don't, we
will find a way to the World Series. We can
find the way to the World Series, then we got
a shot at winning one. That's sort of the approach
right out of the mouth of Jerry Depoto. That's the
approach that they have taken. So so, yeah, what was there?
(34:46):
What was it?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Do you think he should keep his job and do
you think he will keep his tub?
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Right?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
So, I think that he's doing what they want him
to do, and he's doing it pretty well.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
So if they win eighty five games, it's the playoffs
by one or two games, he'll probably come back.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Now I will say for the first time, definitively he shouldn't.
Even this past offseason. I said, if you remember I
do that there's an argument to be made to get
rid of him, Yes, right now. And it's not because
I don't think he's done great things. I think he's
got great qualities. I think they draft well under him.
They obviously are good at finding pitching. He's great at
(35:24):
finding relief pitching. Those one hundred mile per hour throwers
that nobody thinks they can develop, they develop in here.
So I think there's some really tremendous qualities about him.
He's rebuilt the farm system from thirty to first and
then back down to twenty and then back up to
first again in a very short period of time. It's
(35:44):
some impressive stuff that he does. But we're not hanging
banners for number one ranked farm systems. You've done the
hard work, well, the easy work. This is where Dave
Dombrowski becomes a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
He rides into your town. Well, you've got the foundation set,
and all he does is say, I know who the
great players are, Rice Harper, you and I can pick
what David Rowski does. I know the great players are,
let me go get them and I'll give them whatever
they want, and then we'll win for a little while,
and then when you're ready to rebuild, I'm out. Of here. Yeah,
(36:18):
so where are the championship moves? Where are the moves
to put you over the top. And I can't emphasize
this enough. I know I've said it every day on
my show for months, and every day on this podcast,
every week on this podcast. I don't care if you
want to throw a little loop around your ten twelve
favorite prospects, Yeah, don't move them. Then I'm all about
(36:40):
a long term success organization. Two. I would do the
same thing from that standpoint. But you can't do it
with your entire farm system. You just can't do it.
And you can't let Josh Naylor go to the Diamondbacks.
You got to make a better move than that.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yes, And like for those who think, oh well, if
you don't move any of the top ten, then the
rest of you guys aren't worth anything.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
That's not true at all, not true at all.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Like, like you just mentioned, Josh Naylor was moved for
like a top twenty prospect in the.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Slade Chaconi, who was the last I saw, was fourteenth
and he had a failed first season with the Diamondbacks
this year, and then they gave him a competitive balanced
second round draft pick as well.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Why couldn't you have done that?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
We can't even Justin and Jerry are so you know,
Twitter paged with prospects. They're in love with guys they
haven't even drafted yet.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Yeah, it's like, oh, we're gonna get this guy because
we have a third overall pick next season. And that's
the other thing you're gonna get more, Like trade them,
you're gonna get more.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
You have the third overall pick next year.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah. If they were asking for the third overall pick, no,
I say no. Yeah, but when you're talking like a
second round pick and you have.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Four shortstops in your top ten, you're not. They're not
gonna all play shortstop. They can't even all play it'll infield.
So like, come on, you can get rid of one.
Go get a bat that's ready now for little rise guys.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
You go a Royo for Naylor and that's that.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Deals that's way more than the Diamondbacks off you might yeah,
you might get more than that.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, you don't even have to go that good. No,
so he but they won't trade any of their guys.
That is very obvious that they they were asked about them. Well,
we kind of like him.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
So that's where I go back to does he actually
think that this team doesn't have holes?
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Like he doesn't. I think he believes that they can
be They can be.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Just good enough, canby, yes, not that they will can bey.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
He believes he has a good team.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Okay, great, here's where I'll give it to you.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Anders.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I think we have a leader of our organization that
does not care to be great. Yeah, and that is
very disturbing. And that is where I check out because
this is professional sports and if it's not, it's all
about pursuing greatness. Absolutely, there is no middle ground. There
(39:12):
aren't awards. I mean, the Buffalo Bills made it to
four Super Bowls and they're considered Oh, it's a punchline
and a joke.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
The same team made it to four super Bowls and
it's a punchline and a joke.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
And the team that can't beat Patrick Mahomes, that's what
they're known for, the team that can't be the chiefs this.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
If you didn't get into this to be great, then
get out of it. Yeah, because you've done the hard work,
You've put the foundation together to be good even without
any moves made this offseason. Where are the moves that
make you great, And how did you not get into
this to make those moves? That's where you're like, finally
(39:52):
we're in a position where I can go get something
awesome on this team. How are you not driven that?
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I don't know?
Speaker 3 (40:03):
And you mentioned this earlier too, Like we haven't even
talked about the players aspect to this. Like there's been
a pretty public riff between a few of the players
in the front office on this team. And if they
were pissed off before, can you imagine how they're feeling
now about how Like they're the ones that are doing
(40:24):
the work every single day. They're the ones that believe
that they agree with Jerry, we have a good team,
but go make us better.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Go Wait, there was a public rift two years ago.
Cal finished the season exactly they did it this year. Yeah,
they made the Rose Arena and the turner moves that
they did deadline they and they actually did not look
like they were going to make the playoffs at the time.
So I commend them for that. And they did get
a guy on multiple years so that they weren't just
(40:54):
using him as a rent right down the stretch. It
was a good move. I don't even like the player anymore. More.
But it was a good move at the time and
it made a lot of sense. I think bounce back
and it does carry over into this year. But yeah,
he's still got to go down to spring training and
face dudes who already think. I mean, Cal Rawley gave
(41:16):
up Scott Boris as his agent, and I think that
was because Boris wasn't going to let him resign here.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Boris does not want to let him resign here.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Do not want any of his clients coming to Seattle
because they don't spend money.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I'm not going to offer the most now.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
And so he does. He was going to talk Cal.
I think Cal got rid of him because Boris was like,
you're not resigning there, and Cal's like, well, I'll make
my own decisions. And now, all of a sudden, if
you're Cal, like, get Boris back, If this is really
the way we're going to operate things, you got to
be kidding me.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I'm not gonna want to stay here.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah, I can't imagine that he would. JP's had issues
with it in the past.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
George a couple of times, not necessarily with Jerry to Poto,
but kind of just how they operate things. He had
a riff of Scott Service when he was taking him
out of games and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
I don't think he keeps in touch with them in
the offseason at all. I think when he sees them
in spring training it's like the first time and he's
very aloof with them. Yeah. So I mean that's actually
been a constant under Scott's service. He always finds a way,
even when he's got Dix like Winker on the roster,
he finds a way to keep the locker room together. Yes,
finds different leaders to lead for the right thing. That
(42:33):
was one thing he was very good at. Yes, But
I don't know, I don't know as angry as the
fans are, as angry as the media is here is
the national media is angry with Amar.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Yeah, and I just thought about this too. Can you
imagine the position they're putting Dan Wilson in too, Like
I understand, maybe he wouldn't have been offered a managerial
job anywhere else, so like, yeah, he can he can
kind of get away with this, but he's he's the
guy that's going to take a lot of this fall
for if and when the team starts off slow and
(43:06):
they have struggles offensively, just like they did last year,
and it's like.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Oh, it wasn't service. Now Dan Wilson's doing the same thing,
Like they're throwing him under the bus now as well.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
And well, they're really counting on to have been that
obstinate and to have had Edgar Martinez there and willing
to help, and now all of a sudden.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
He's not going to be well, he's not going to
be there, he's not going to travel with the team.
I don't think so well.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
They're putting it off well Kevin Sitzer. Yeah, they're putting
an awful lot in the hitting instructors, improving this offense
going forward, and that's smart. And do you think that
would I'm glad that they did. They have to be
better than what they were a year ago. But like
I've meant another thing I mentioned nearly every podcast, where's
the Corbin Burns move? Where is the move where you
(43:52):
know you have a weakness. I know you only get
him for one year, but man, Mariner fans sure would
like a baseball season where they're up ten games, not
in June, up ten games at the end of August
and get to play. Let's set our rotation for the
playoffs all through September. They're going to have a fighters
(44:16):
chance to get into the playoffs this year. Maybe they can.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Even back their way toward ninety wins division championship, you know.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Division championship. If things really fall, you get two or
three career years out of offensive hitters and you keep
your pitching healthy. Maybe you do, as you mentioned a
couple of podcasts ago, you get the suspicion that maybe
it all comes together.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
I do have a weird suspicion that that's going to
be the case.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Maybe that does happen, but you're not building it for
that to happen.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
And we've mentioned this before too. Just because it works
doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. And
then oppositely, just because it didn't work doesn't mean it
wasn't the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Right, So I thought Coulton Wong was the right thing.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
I know, you just but it didn't work.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, samething were last year, Blanka and Carver.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
And frankly, let's point that out as well. If I'm
if I'm considered late to the party to be ripping
on Jerry, then I will point out why. I Mean,
we had an off season where Gino Suarez and Jesse
Winker were added. Yeah, to this team. We had an
off season where Colton Wong coming off a four war season,
and Taoscar Hernandez were added to this team. We had
(45:25):
an off season where, yes, I know Sworez left, but
Polonko and Garver came in and it felt like to me,
a very creative process under the circumstances because you weren't
allowed to spend. So I felt okay with last off season,
felt great about the previous.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I agree on previous to. Yeah, so this is but when.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
You have Donovan Solano as your solution to your worst
offensive season you've had since the rebuild began, it was
worse than twenty twenty. Yeah, this is the worst. And
your answer is Donovan Solano. Nobody can like that. And
so this is my first time saying terrible, inexcusable And
(46:09):
if you misread the market, that's your job.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
That is your job, and that's something to remember too.
And not only was it bad, he he just keeps
opening his mouth. It makes it worse every single time.
I don't know, maybe there's a world where Justin Hollander
is going to be the kind of guy that does
all these interviews from now on, because I think that
would be so much better to hear as a fan.
That's the other reason why I just I get my
(46:34):
gears grinded with Jerry Depoto is like, I feel like
he just talks down to everyone, and I hate rooting
for someone like that. I want to feel like my
president of baseball operations is making moves to make the
team better and understands why fans want this team to
win so bad, not telling them that, No, you think
the offense is bad, you're wrong, It's good based on
our metrics.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Well, John Schneider's worse.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, all right, so, but.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Why does John Schnider have have the same title? Because
he won a title and he went to two Super
Bowls and when he had it, and every year, but
even now, it's like every year when he has a
chance to try to go for something, its great, he goes.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
For he makes the move.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Yeah, he has a salary cap, which is even more
of a reason why.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yeah, you maybe wouldn't, but.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah, but that's why he gets a little bit more
of a pass than what Jerry does. But you know,
I don't care if you're making the right moves. Yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
He could be an ass like.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
So I'll just say it's either gonna work for him
and he gets those improvements that he was expecting the
numbers from a year ago from some guys, and it
works and then we're okay with that. Okay, you won yeah,
or it doesn't work and he goes, I So that's
(47:53):
so I'm saying, you don't really have to deal with
this anymore, because it's one thing to hear somebody condescend
who's actually excelling. Alright, it's another thing somebody floundering and condescending.
And that is why your gears are so sufficiently ground.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Thank you, Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Well that well, like I said, next week will be
kind of a wrap up of the stove episode with
Luke Arkins, who I always love having on with us.
We can do a deeper dive into the T mobile numbers.
We'll do our predictions going into the year, because it
seems like this is our roster. There's I mean, Bragman
and Alonso still have yet to be signed, so.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Please that's not happening. Please, I might at this point
settle for Brendan Rodgers. At least that's a at least
that's a second baseman who gold gloved two years ago,
who was a top three pick in the draft not
long ago, that you could probably get for two million dollars. Yeah,
at least that's a second basement, that second base every day.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
I wouldn't mind it at all.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Yeah. Anyway, all right, Well.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
That does it for me? Anything else for you?
Speaker 1 (48:56):
No, we'll wrap it up. We'll talk to you again
next week, and so yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Hang in there. I will try.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
That's how I can. And you're listening, hang in there.
I still think we're going to have a competitive baseball
team this year with a really solid shot at making
to the playoffs. The fury is that there's no reason
why we should have to stop short at being pretty good.
Why can't we go for great? What is holding it up?
(49:27):
But we'll talk more about it next week, So enjoy
and thank you for listening to Stove
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