Everything You Need To Know About Roswell

Thomas J Carey, co-writer of Witness To Roswell (75th Annivesary Edition) tells JoJo everything you need to know about the infamous Roswell incident and government cover-up!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let me tell you, this is going to be one
of the most intense, thorough podcast you've ever heard on
the Roswell incident. He covers just about everything, and he
being Thomas J. Carrey, he wrote a book or co
wrote a book called Witness to Roswell, and it's just
mind blowing. So let me keep this intro short. We'll

(00:20):
get right to it. The title of this episode, and
it was easy to come up with everything you need
to know about Roswell.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Check this.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Jojo on the radio present Paranormal Normal is all right,
you guys, Tom, Thomas J.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Carey.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
He has a book called Witness to Roswell, the seventy
fifth anniversary edition, Unmasking the Government's biggest cover up. You
did this book with Donald R. Schmidt, your partner there
this book.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Tom.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
I mean you said this in your book early in
the book, the Roswell case. This is the case, this
is the only case. This is the granddaddy of all
UFO cases.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, it's always been known, well not always recently, in
the last twenty years, it's known as the granddaddy of
all UFO cases.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
And it certainly is obviously Roswell, the incident Roswell took
place in New Mexico nineteen forty seven. But your direct involvement,
I believe was ninety one. What made you because this
was a massive commitment to put this to do this investigation.
It took you, I'm assuming several years. I mean, what
really got you to what really made you commit to
let's go guns blazing, let's do this?

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yes, good question, Jojo. It was. It started in nineteen
eighty when I read the book The Roswell Incident. I
had been interested in UFOs, you know, since I was
four and a half feet tall and mildly so I
wasn't obsessed with it. You know, some people are really
obsessed with this. They are did you just see that?
They just you know, that's not me. So I read

(01:52):
a book called The Roswell Incident by William Moore and
Charles Burlitz, and this book blew me away because up
until that point my favorite author had been an a
fellow named Donald E. Keho He in the nineteen fifties.
He was the big advocate for UFOs and government hearings
and that sort of thing. But the thing about Keyhole

(02:14):
was the idea of crashed UFOs was a bridge too far.
For him, he just wanted nothing to do with alien
bodies or crashed saucers because he felt that, you know,
in trying to get legitimacy for the subject that was
for him, those stories were a bridge too far. Well,
the Roswell incident, we're talking about a nuts and bolts

(02:38):
craft that crashed allegedly, and it not only had nuts
and bolts, but there were a little they called them
little people back then. They didn't call them aliens, they
called them little people were on board. And so I'm
reading this book and I'm saying, oh my goodness, we're
not talking about lights in the sky or things like that.

(02:58):
This book is talking about the nuts and bookscraft that
actually crashed back in nineteen forty seven near the town
of Roswell, New Mexico. Not only that there were little
entities aboard, spacemen as you know, we would call them,
and it also talked about a government cover up. They
covered this up, and this was nineteen eighty. It happened

(03:21):
forty seven, that's you know, thirty some years, and they
even threatened people with their lives if they talked. And
the presentation in this book convinced me that it really happened,
and so that's nineteen eighty. Ten years go by and
nothing nothing more on that was it? Not another book
by anybody. So I signed up for the Newfon Mutual

(03:44):
UFO network. They with investigated cases and they put out
a monthly publication called the New Fund Journal. I signed
up for that, and I also found out there was
another group called the Center for UFO Studies in Chicago,
and they had a bi monthly publication called the International
UFO Reporter. Well, in that journal there released two fellows,

(04:08):
Kevin Randall and Donald Schmidt, who were reopening the investigation
into the Roswell case. This is like nineteen ninety, so
it's ten years removed from the previous publication, the Roswell
Incident Book. So it's ten years I've gone by and nothing.
So I'm reading that there are articles and one of
the aspects of the Roswell case was that the craft

(04:31):
was found by a group of archaeologists from the University
of Pennsylvania and where I live in Huntington Valley, Pennsylvania,
we border Philadelphia. So my background is in anthropology, archaeology,
and physical anthropology. I have m A and anthropology from
the California State University in Sacramento, and I went to

(04:54):
the University of Toronto for four years in their PhD program.
But I'm sure of a dissertation I did back then.
I you know, what do I do my dissertation on? Now?
I have a number of things I could do it on,
but back then I did. But I spent four years there.
So my background was physical anthropology in archaeology. So I

(05:15):
called up Kevin Randall. I said, what have you done
about trying to find the archaeologists who allegedly discovered the
craft and the bodies back in nineteen forty seven? And
he said, well, we had called a couple archaeologists and
they didn't know anything, and you know, blah blah blah.
I said, look, the University of Pennsylvania is in Philadelphia.

(05:36):
I'm a thirty minute train ride from there. Let me
go down to the university and see what I can
find out down there. In the meantime, I called William Moore,
the co author of the Roswell Incident book. I said,
mister Moore, do you remember the names of NDEE archaeologists
who you were referring to that were from the University
of Pennsylvania. So he gave me two names. So I

(05:58):
went down there. I interviewed both of them. The one
the one archaeolists. I don't know what you're talking about.
I just have no I don't know what you're talking about.
Thank you, sir for lying to me. Goodbye. So the
other one knew all about it. The other, the other archaeologist,
knew all about it. This this guy was there, he

(06:19):
got everything. And at the end of his little talk
to me, he says, and do you know what it was?
I said, no, well you tell me it was a
V two rocket carrying a chimpanzee. Thank you, sir for
lying to me again about what it was. But it
turns out I ran into a University of Pennsylvania former

(06:39):
archaeologist student. She had an m a. In archaeology from
penn and she told me who it was, and it
was it was the second Fellow. She said. We were
out in the field one day in Pennsylvania, Central Pennsylvania,
and this famous archaeologist visited us and we're having lunch,
and all of a sudden he goes into this story
about a crash UFO in nineteen forty seven back in

(07:02):
New Mexico. I said, well, can you tell me who
it was? Well, he's a famous archaeologist. I'll tell you.
His initials were C cl okay. So I went back.
I ran back the penn and got the professor professorial list.
There was no CL, but there was an LC. She

(07:25):
reversed as the signals. It was an archaeolist by the
name of John Cotter, famous for the work at the
Clovis site. At the time, the oldest Paleo Indian site
in North America was near Clovis, New Mexico, at a
place called Portalis, and he was the head guy there
in the archaeology of that site. You know, that's who
it was, John Cotter. So he was dead, as a

(07:49):
lot of them were. But I got a copy of
his obituary. Well he had a daughter, so I looked
it up in my super duper people Find Her machine
and I found the the address of the daughter. I
called her up, and I clearly startled her, because you know,
you always start out a little butter up. And I

(08:10):
say now about her as well, and I said, I
have information that your father was that there's no other
way to put it. You know that your your father
was part of the archaeology team that found this flying saucer. Uh, well, sir,
I was on my way out the door on vacation

(08:31):
for two months. Call me when called me up when
I get back. So she she didn't want to answer
the question, and she says, I'm on that way. She
may as well said I'm going to the moon, you know,
or something like that. So two months goes by and
I don't hear from her because she was supposed to
call me back and she never did. So I called
her again after two months. You know, remember me, I

(08:51):
you know your father, and take me off your list.
She says, take me off of your caller list. I
don't want to talk to you. And that was it.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
That Do you think people are so? I mean, the
government basically threatened multiple people not to talk. But are
those threats still that serious to these people? I mean,
maybe maybe they are.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Some of them are. We've interviewed, say are well. Our
witness pool is over six hundred. That doesn't include the
people who didn't want to talk to us. And the
reason there's there's several reasons why people didn't want to
talk to us. Oh, they would say, well, I don't
know anything about it, And I'm looking at there and
they you know, they were there at the lived in

(09:30):
Roswell at the time, and certainly they heard about it.
I know I never heard about it, you know, something
like that. The reason people didn't want to talk to
us are the following fear of ridicule foin they were
on or they were on a government pension of some sort,
either military or any government pension. But sir, we have

(09:52):
a monograph from the Secretary of the Air Force. This
is when Bill Clinton was president. His Secretary Air Force
was a woman by the name of Shila Widnall, and
to get people to speak to her investigator, they were
reopening the case a little. This is like nineteen ninety four.
She drafted a please do not feel that you have

(10:15):
to keep quiet. Please respond, there are no barriers for
you to speak. So we would we would bring that
up to them because there, you know, there was a
promulgation from Shila Whitnall that there was no longer any
reason not to come forward. But they the people that
were still claiming, well, I can't talk, I'm sworn to secrecy. Well,

(10:36):
sir or madam, that's no longer operative. Well, I'm just
not taking any chances. So they were afraid of that
something would happen to their pension. That's something if they talked,
they would get back to somebody and they'd lose their pension.
So that was a big motivation for them not to talk.
And we ran into a number of those the military

(10:57):
people same reason. I was scorn to secrecy, but it's
no longer operative. Well, I'm just not going to talk
because I'm just not going to talk. So they didn't
want to take any chances because they're on a military pension.
They don't want anything to happen. Others were still fearful
of the threat, even though you're decades removed, they were
still fearful of the threat because they didn't know.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
You know, who is the closest, in your opinion, to
the incident that you got to talk to, Like, who
do you consider your most valuable witness and what was
that conversation.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Before I answer that, Jojo. There was one other group
of people who were more likely or less likely to talk,
and the military. We found out, the lower the rank,
the more likely that they would talk to us. The
higher the rank. As you get up into the higher ranks, no,
I don't know anything, sir. And so when you got

(11:49):
to the officer Corps as a group, they didn't talk,
but some did, but most didn't. So that was the
other thing I was going to mention about. The higher
the rank, the less likely they were to talk. Interest
to answer your question, there are I would say, it's
tough to pick out. One person. I'll leave out, you know,
Mac Brazl, the rancher who discovered that, because after they

(12:12):
worked him over, he didn't talk about it anymore. His
son gave us the info that his father, who had
already passed, would have given to us. That's his son.
We call him Bill Junior because they both had the
first name of William, but they had different middle names,
you know. But to differentiate him from his father, we
refer to as Bill Junior. He gave us the information

(12:33):
that his father was not able to give us about
where the site was and what they did to them
to threaten them. They threatened Mac the father if he talked,
they'd put him in an insane asylum. Then they threatened
him with death, just to put a punctuation point on it.
And Jesse Marcel was the one who broke the story
in nineteen seventy eight, Major, former Major Jesse Marcel came forward.

(12:59):
He operated a Ham, He was a Ham operator and
he told his story around to the fellows on his network,
and the story got out and got to Stanton Friedman,
who we call the father of Roswell, who passed away
three years ago. Got to Stanton Friedman. He was in
Louisiana giving a talk. Someone said, oh, well here's a
guy you should talk to. His name's Jesse Marcel. So

(13:22):
he calls up Jesse Marcel from the airport, took the
information and when he got back home he got in
touch with William Moore, who was the co author of
the book, and they did some checking and they found
the newspaper article. It was a two day story back
in nineteen forty seven. They found the newspaper article that
SAIDAF captures flying saucer in Roswell region. Well, THEAF its

(13:49):
not the Royal Australian air Force, it's the Roswell Army
Airfield captured. And they didn't capture anything. The thing had
blown up and crashed like they got always put your
hands up. They didn't capture anything, but that was the
big headline. It was a story So William Moore and
Stanton Friedman started investigating the Roswell case in nineteen seventy

(14:13):
eight and based on about ninety somewhere between sixty and
ninety witnesses, and Marcell was still alive at that he
was the key witness in the book They put together,
the Roswell Incident Book two years later. So you have
mac Brazel and Jesse Marcell. Without them, there's no Roswell's story. Now.

(14:33):
Once once we got investigating, I would say the most
important single witness that we came across was the former
base Provost Marshall back at the Roswell airfield back in
nineteen forty seven. Now, the Provost Marshal is like the
top military police officer his men. He was in charge

(14:55):
of the military police who surrounded the crash sites. There
were three sites associated with this one crash. His men.
He was in charge of the security, so he knew
everything about it because he was at every crash site,
you know, there were three of them. So we called
him early in nineteen ninety or was eighty nine or

(15:16):
ninety when Randall and Schmidt had started their investigation in
eight nineteen eighty nine, one of the first people they
called was Maj. Former Major Edwin Easley, who's the Provost Marshall.
He's still alive in the early nineties, and so Kevin
Randall interviewed him and to every question that Kevin asked,

(15:38):
Easily said, I'm sorry, I'm sworn to secrecy. I can't
answer that every question. I'm sorry, I'm sworn to secrecy. So,
out of frustration, Randall's about to wrap up the interview
and he says, well, sir, can you tell us if
we're going in the right direction or not? And so
Easily says, well, what direction is that? Well, we think

(16:00):
it was a UFO that crashed back in nineteen forty seven.
That's what we believe in. That's the direction we're going on.
And there's a long pause and he goes, well, you're
not going in the wrong direction, Whilah so Easily is
saying that the UFO or the flying Saucer direction is

(16:20):
the right direction. You're going in huge. Huge. A few
years later, he's on his deathbed in Parkland Memorial Hospital
in Dallas, Texas. This is the hospital where President Kennedy
was taken. Yes, so he's on his deathbed in Parkland
memorial and he's talking to his daughter. His daughter had

(16:42):
also brought his granddaughter, so it's his daughter, Nancy, Nancy
Easley Johnson. So they're talking and incomes of granddaughter, and
she has randallin Schmidt's book called UFO Crash at Roswell,
that was their first book that came out nineteen ninety one,
and she goes, granddad, Granddad, what about this? And she

(17:04):
holds the book right up in his face, right up
in his face, and he goes, oh, the creatures. That's
all he said, Oh the creatures. And then he apologized
to his family for not saying something sooner. He had
never broken silence, even with his own family. And this
is nineteen ninety one, and nineteen forty seven is what

(17:26):
almost forty years later, he says, I promised the president.
This would be President Truman, who sent Emisser, who sent
Pete as they used to call them suits, He sent
suits to Roswell to sort of, you know, see what
was going on, you know, set the framework as to
what people were allowed to say. He said, I promised
the president through his representative, that I wouldn't talk about ever.

(17:51):
And I so he apologized to his family. He told
us that the UFO direction was the right direction, and
he said that there were he called him creach, but occupants.
And so I would say he was the most important
early witness once, you know, to say, oh, we're on
the right track. Later on I would say, see, it's

(18:12):
tough to pick one because there were a number of them.
On the other end of the spectrum was the former
base public information officer, First Lieutenant Walter Howe. We knew
Walter for twenty five years and he was the base
public information officer that the base commander, William Blanchard called
him into the office. He says, I want you to

(18:32):
put together a press release, and here it is, and
you know, just clean up my wording a bit. And
so Walter Howe is the one that delivered the so
we captured a Flying Saucer press release to the four
media outlets in town, the two radio and two newspapers.
He's the one that delivered to them all four. So

(18:53):
over the years, you know, Walter how was one of
the co founders of the Roswell International Museum and Research Center,
and he was one of the three founders and they
created this museum in nineteen ninety one. I believe. So
we knew Walter for a long time and we would
ask him, Hey, Walter, what about this. I don't know.

(19:15):
I delivered the press release. That's all. That's all I know. Now,
come on, come on. You're the right hand man of
the base commander. He gives you this press release and
you delivered, and you don't know anything else. No, Well,
on its face, that can't be true. On its face
that that can't be true, that you're in the center

(19:36):
of one of the great stories of all time and
you don't know anything. You closed your eyes and you
closed your ears. Well, most we got out of him
was one time we asked him how tall were they
Walter meaning the little beings, how tall were there? And
he went like this, that's all. He went like that.

(19:57):
He said, you didn't see that, but the yeah, that's all.
So in interviewing other witnesses, they would say, oh, yeah, Walter,
how you know he went out to the crash sites
and he came back with some pieces of records and
he was showing them around and all that sort of stuff,
and the base commander told him go home and hide
out until this blows over, and that's what he did.

(20:17):
But he knew, he knew everything, so he would give
talks to visitors to the museum. You know, you get
a group of people that would come to the museum,
UFO Museum down there in Roswell. He would give talks.
Over the years, he would give a little more each
each time, and finally he was ending his presentations with
I know it was a flying saucer, but don't ask

(20:38):
me why that is good. Finally, what we did is
now two thousand and two, and we know a lot
about what he did and where he was. So we
put together a list of things that we knew that
he was involved in, and we said, Walter, would you
consider a posthumous sealed statement to be released opened after

(21:01):
your death. So here we put together, Liz Walter of
everything we think we know about you. Take as much
time reading it with you and your family and your
lawyer and whoever you think you should share it with,
and come back to us, and if you would agree
to sign it as a sealed statement to be opened

(21:22):
after your passing. So in two thousand and two he
signed it without changing anything. He didn't add to it
or subtract from it. So he signed it and we
sealed it away. He passed away three years later in
two thousand and five. So we opened the sealed statement.
We put it in our first book, our first edition

(21:43):
of Witness to Roswell, and it was the last chapter
in our first book, and the book became the best
selling UFO book in the world, not just about Roswell,
but the UFO book in the world for the next
three years. And that included our second edition, which came
out two years later in two thousand and nine, and

(22:05):
as we speak, our third edition and final edition just
came out. So it's a trilogy and it's called witnessor Roswell,
the Government's Biggest cover Up. And this year it's the
seventy fifth anniversary edition. So we put everything we into
it that we've added since the other two books. We
always put new photographs in there and stuff like that.

(22:27):
And as far as the sealed statement is concerned, he
signed it no problems, and what he agreed to was that,
yes he did. He was a public information officer back
at Roswell. In forty seven he delivered the press release
that Roswell Army Field Army Airfield had recovered a UFO
had crashed northwest of town. He also included that before

(22:51):
the commanding officer, William Blanchard, sent him home, Blanchard showed him.
He took him to the big they call it the
Bigger Big Hangar. It's Hanger eighty four, Building eighty four today,
but Hanger Pee three back in forty seventy, says, I
went to the hangar with the commander, and there I
saw a lot of wreckage, physical wreckage. And I also

(23:12):
saw several gurnies, on top of which were childlike creatures
about three and a half feet tall, but with oversized heads.
They're about the size of a child, maybe eight, nine,
ten or years old. But the overriding feature was the
large head. And he said, and one of them moved. Wow.

(23:33):
He said. He didn't get a good close up view
of him because he was standing, you know, several feet away.
He didn't like go up and look, you know, look
in their face or anything like that. But he saw
the bodies or the little people as they called them
back then in Roswell because the rumor, according to another witness,
the rumor about the crash went around town in twenty minutes,

(23:55):
so everybody in town knew about it. Not everybody saw it,
but everybody knew about it. We also had gotten to
at least one of the crash sites. Through there were
three sites. The first site was where it exploded late
in the evening of July the second, nineteen forty seven.
We think it was struck by lightning, but that's just
a guess. It could have been an internal explosion. We

(24:17):
don't know. So if it was external, it was either
a lightning strike during a thunderstorm that everybody was talking about,
or maybe radar because New Mexico had several super powerful
radar stations across the state and they all came into it.
They all converged to a certain area. Maybe it flew

(24:38):
through that area, and you know, we don't know. This
is just speculation. So when that explosion took place, two
of the bodies were blown out and came to rest
about two and a half miles east of the so
called debris field where all this debris came down when
it exploded. That's the site that mac brazl found. We
got it. Yeah, yes, this site where these the little

(25:00):
two bodies were found. It was a low bluff about
two and a half miles east. We named it after
the little child. But the seven year old that was
with Mac the morning he found the stuff. His name
was d Proctor, a rancher's son the closest ranch to
the Razell's ranch. We know about that site because of

(25:20):
Deep Roctor. He took his mother to the site one
day and she passed it on to us, so we
call it the Deep Rocter site. Two bodies. The inner
cabin of the craft withstood the explosion. There was the
big explosion, but the inner cabin was stood. It was
either an inner cabin or an escape pod of some sort.
Continued on for another thirty five miles closer to Roswell,

(25:44):
and it landed just short of Highway to eighty five
north out of Roswell, And in that capsule, in that
inner cabin were three beings, two dead, one alive. And
we know that because a fireman from Roswell named Dan Dwyer.
He was one of the first ones that got out
to the site on his own, not in the capacity

(26:06):
of being a fireman. Somebody from the base had come
out to the firehouse and said, no, no, don't go
out there. We'll handle everything, because you know, they had
the number of plane crashes out there that the Roswell
Army airfield was the site for the location of the
five oh ninth Bomb Group, which was the group of
B twenty nine bombers that ended World War Two by

(26:28):
dropping two atomic bombs on Japan. After the war, they
located just south of Roswell, still flying B twenty nine's
still their only mission was to drop atomic bombs in
case of war. And New Mexico they have a lot
of little airports air fields. Planes crash and the fire
departments go out. So in this case they sent somebody

(26:52):
out to the firehouse in Roswell. No, no, don't go out,
we'll handle everything. So Dan Dwyer says, hell will, and
he gets in his car. He gets out there even
before the military had got there in force. So he
gets out there, he sees this inner cabin with two

(27:12):
bodies hanging out, you know, obviously dead. So he's looking
at this, and out of the corner of his eye
he sees movement and Loiviell he looks over there. It's
one of the three and a half foot creatures with
the big heads sort of staggering around. Oh my god,
Oh my god. So we get this from his daughter,
Frankie Row and Frankie gwier Roy. We get this story

(27:34):
from his daughter because he was gone by the time
we got on the case. So that night he comes
home and oh, what did you do, dude? Did you
have a good day? And he says, boy did I? Yes,
I had a guy, I had an interesting day today.
Tell us, well, there was a crash of a flying
saucer north of town. Tell us about it. And so
he started talking about it and the family they want

(27:57):
to know more about these creatures. What did it look like? Well,
all he said, and we get this from Frankie Road
the door he said. All he said, child of the Earth.
Do you know what a child of the earth is?

Speaker 1 (28:08):
No, I don't.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
I'm a city slicker myself, being born and raised in Philadelphia,
I never heard the term. But the child of the
Earth in the Southwest is a reference to a land
cricket about you know, the size of a softball, and
it's a cricket. They also known as a potato bug
or the Jerusalem cricket, and the child of the Earth.

(28:30):
And all he did was say child of the earth,
and they knew what he was talking about. And to
think about the child of the Earth, it looks like
a you know, a scorpion. Without those claws, it doesn't happen.
But it has this large, oversized head that's pinkish, and
on the top of the head are these markings that
when a newborn child arrives, the top of the head

(28:51):
has these dark markings on it where the bones have
not yet, the parietals and the occipital and the frontal
bones have not fused yet, and in those non fused
areas you have dark lines. And that's what the child
of the Earth. That's why they call it the child
of the Earth, because it has these dark markings on
the top of its head. So everybody there knew what

(29:13):
he was talking about. I certainly did, and we have
a picture of it in our first book. I don't
think we have a picture of it in our third book.
But that's what he said. It looked like, well, did
you talk to it? Dad? Did you talk to it?
This is Frankie Road talking. Did you talk to it? Yes,
we talked. We talked to one another, but not like
we're talking now by using your mouth and your tongue

(29:35):
and your vocal cares. We didn't talk that way. We
talked in our heads to one another. And well, what
did you talk about, Well, it was concerned. I was
concerned about, well, you know, this creature, and the creature
told me in my head, don't worry about me. I
accept my fate. My ship is destroyed, I have no

(29:56):
means of communication. My comrades or whatever the term for
comrades are dead. I'm by myself. There's nothing anybody can do.
I accept my fate. And that's what that's the conversation
they had. The creature was more concerned about Dan Dwyer's
concern for it, and it was concerned for itself, and
that was the sum total of the conversation. So they

(30:19):
were all taken to Roswell Army Airfield first. Then they
went on to write Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.
That's where they wound up for a number of years
and the wreckage and all that. So that's Dan Dwyer's story.
And that's the third site. We call that the impact
site where after the explosion the two creatures are blown out.

(30:40):
What's left the inner cabin continues on for another thirty
five miles, comes to rest just north of town Roswell,
and there's the inner cabin or escape pod. Two more
dead ones and one still alive. So five total. Wow.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
And this is you basically summed up the entire Roswell crash.
Everything in a nutshell right there, the bodies, the crash,
the wreckage, the metal, you know, the infamous metal, that's
the flexible metal, memory metal, memory metal. Where is all
this now? Do you know where it's located now?

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Or is that where we do? I could throw out
a big tease, but I won't. Okay. First, first it
went to right Field in Dayton, Ohio, because right Field
was already in there in the back engineering business from
World War Two. You know, they get access to airplanes,
they bring them to right Field and they try to
they take them apart and see what made them tick.

(31:34):
So they already were equipped for back engineering. So all
the wreckage went to right Field later right Patterson Air
Force Base, and the bodies went there, and also the
live one went there. We don't know how long it
remained alive. We do know there was a witness that
his son told us the story who came across the
what we call it the live one, the one creature

(31:57):
that survived the crash, was seen at Bright Patterson in
the spring of nineteen forty eight, and we got the
story from his son and I won't go into it,
but we know that it was there as early as
nineteen forty eight. How long it lived, we don't know.
We have different stories on that. Obviously it's not still alive,
but we do have a quick deathbed confession, another death

(32:20):
bet confession from a former commander of the Foreign Technology Division,
which is handled all of this stuff. Former commander on
his death bed said there are five aliens in Dougway.
Doug Way, Utah is like Area fifty one before there
was an Area fifty one. So we know that the bodies,
at least according to this former commander of the Foreign

(32:41):
Technology Division at Bright Patterson, were stored at Dougway Proving
Grounds in Utah. It was a lot like Area fifty
one remote. They have a lot of remote facilities, so
that's where the latest we heard that they're at. As
far as the wreckage, and this comes from an insider
at Bright Patterson, the records was taken to Area fifty

(33:03):
one in the early nineteen eighties. Okay, because Dayton, Ohio
was getting to metropolitan you know, almost everybody in metropolitan Dateon,
Ohio knew about this and the base was getting a stigma.
And also they didn't want to test aircraft there anymore
because right field right to Patterson, that's all the new

(33:24):
aircraft were tested there, and if they crashed there, you're
crashing into Dayton, Ohio. So say, we got to find
another place. So in nineteen fifty five they developed Area
fifty one because they had this U two spy plane
that they were putting together that would fly seventy thousand
feet over the Soviet Union take pictures, you know, So

(33:46):
they developed Area fifty one for all new aircraft design
development and that was in nineteen fifty five. So by
the nineteen eighties they were already to you know, stealth
aircraft and all that sort of stuff development. So in
the early nineteen eighties, according to our source, that's where
the Roswell wreckage went. So in nineteen eighties it goes

(34:09):
to ra to Area fifty one. So where is it today? Well,
who else is located in Nevada just north of Las Vegas, Nevada,
where Area fifty one Groom Lake supersecret s for location,
all the wreckage went a Phillip by the name of
Robert Bigelow. He's already on contract with the US government

(34:32):
for super secret aircraft making parts and all that sort
of stuff. He's already locked into government contracts. Well, it's
also in Nevada a senator by the name of Harry Reid.
Senator Harry Reid, he passed away a year or two ago,
so they got together. Harry Reid developed this super secret

(34:52):
program that the US government never told us about until
those videos about twenty seventeen appeared on TV from Luisa.
I'm sure you've seen them. Tick tacks, yes, and the
is it the cube inside the sphere or the sphere inside?
It happened on the East coast, what happened on the
West coast the USS Nimtz case in two thousand and four,

(35:15):
and the other one was ten years later off the
East coast. So Harry Reid got a UFO program going
unknown to everybody outside of the government called a TIP
Advanced Air Aero Space Threat Identification Program two thousand and
seven to two thousand and twelve, and Luis Alezondo was

(35:37):
in charge of that the late later years. He got
disgusted because they stopped the funding of it, so he
went out with these videos. So Harry Reid got twenty
two million dollars associated funded for that project. Ninety nine
percent of it went to Robert Bigelow and the Bigelow Aerospace.
So Bigelow Aerospace is already in Nevada, a stone's throw

(36:00):
from Area fifty one. So guess where the stuff is today?
We're told it's in private hands. Guess which private hands
the stuff is in?

Speaker 1 (36:09):
That would have to be unless we're all just completely nuts.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Clearly Bigelow, Bigelow Aerospace.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yes, so if you had to bet right now, that's
where your money is.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yes, Harry Reid is dead, Bigelow is not talking, but
there's apparently new construction going on there, windowless buildings. We
also have on top of that, Jojo. Besides putting two
and two together and connecting the dots to Bigelow Aerospace,
we have a great investigator in the state of Florida

(36:39):
who's great with freedom of information. At requests Foyer requests
you send them to the government. This is what I
want to know. Well, when those videos started turning up
in twenty seventeen that everybody has seen the thousand times
I know I have he shot off of Foyer request
to the Department of Defense. I want to know the following,

(37:01):
do you have UFO record? He's not using this term
UAP that they like to use. Now, that's what they
like to use. Oh, well, that includes something over here
that's nothing to do with the UFOs. Now his foyer
had to do with UFOs. Where's the wreckage, whatever you've
been doing with it? You know, what sort of tests

(37:21):
you know, and that sort of stuff. And three years
goes by, he doesn't get any response from the Defense Department. Well,
my friend in Florida is well, he's comfortable. Let's say
that he's comfortable financially. He says, I'm going to turn
my lawyers loose on you if I don't get a
response in two weeks. Within two weeks he had a
response from the Defense Intelligence Agency of the Defense Department,

(37:46):
the DIA. They told him where the wreckage was, big
a low aerospace, it's there, we have it in writing.
And what they are doing with the wreckage it has
to do with the invisibility cloaking, interdimensional experiments, stuff like that,
all these super secret you know, stealth and time compression

(38:07):
and stuff like that. And I said, oh, my goodness,
and I'll tell you why. Two years ago we knew
about certain rocket scientists, paper clip scientists who had come
over after World War Two to you know, wern't von
Braun is the father of our space program. And there
was another rocket scientist named Ernt Steinhoff who was like

(38:29):
the father of our guided missile program. So they had
things going on at White Sands. Von Braun moved to Huntsville, Alabama.
That's it, Huntsville, Alabama's we're all all of our space
program designed. So one day a doctor comes into the
museum in Roswell when we're down there, doctor Bezius, and
he's a medical doctor. He says, there's a fellow I

(38:51):
knew he's dead now. His name was Ernt Steinhoff, one
of the paper clips. He's in some hall of fame
in New Mexico. I think you would have talked to
his son, because Steinhof told me all about his involvement
in the Roswell crash. He was, you know, an analyst,
because they're you know, they're rocket scientists, astrophysicists. He said
it was base craft. You want to talk to his

(39:13):
two sons. He's had two sons, one Hans and Ralph.
And so I call up Hans, I get no answer.
So a couple of months goes by and I'm watching
an NFL football game on television. The Eagles, you know,
in Philadelphia, were playing somebody, and the phone rings. It's Hans,
So I'm asking him what he knows about Roswell because

(39:35):
his father was involved in Oh, I don't know anything.
My father he never told us about that because he
said those who know don't talk, and those who talk
don't know. And I followed those dictates. So I called
up Ralph, the younger son, and he started the I
don't know anything to either. You know, he started that too.

(39:57):
Oh no, you know, why am I wasting my time?
And he says, so we're about we're about to hang up,
and he says, oh, by the way, the crash was
not extraterrestrial. It was extra dimensional. So the father tells
him that it was not extraterrestrial, it was extra dimensional.
So I'm thinking, Jesus, you know, I never thought about that.

(40:18):
We were so busy changing the witnesses before the Undertaker
got them that we never discussed things like where were
they from, why were they you know, all that sort
of stuff. So I said, oh, my goodness, that's that's
that's interesting, Ralph. So no, sooner do I finish that?
And I get a memo from my friend in Florida.
He says, have you spoken to the son of a

(40:41):
fellow by the name of George Hoover who was on
Werner von Braun's team. He was a Navy commander our Navy.
He was a naval commander on the rocket team of
Werner von Braun. He was the Navy's go to guy
with regard to UFOs. Well, a friend of mine in
New Jersey who's written several books of things, one including Roswell.

(41:02):
He co authored The Day After ROSWELLT Boo. Well. His
name is William Burns. I'm a good friend of his.
And in nineteen ninety six he was on the West
coast your area, interviewing somebody else for some other project,
and he somehow hooked up with Commander George Hoover. And
Hoover and in their conversation, Hoover tells him Roswell, it

(41:23):
was a crash, oh craft from someplace else, someplace else. Well,
Well we know, well that's for sure, we know that. Well,
he says, it wasn't extra terrestrial, it was extra temporal. Now,
this is a guy that was on this analysis of
the Roswell's wreckage and all that stuff. He was involved

(41:44):
heavily in that, saying it wasn't extraterrestrial, it was extra temporal,
i e. Time travelers. And he went a step further,
which may be a bridge too far for your listeners,
But this is George Hoover. He's not Uncle Harry down
at the corner of Tavern be saying it was from
someplace else. It was extra temporal. They may have been

(42:05):
us from a future Earth.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
That is mind mind blowing to me.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Depending upon who it was. I have to consider that
because I have nothing else is you know, as far
as where they're from. I gathered that, you know, getting
from there to hear by conventional trout is not you know,
from what we know about rocketry is the spaces are
too long. You can't get here from there by conventional means.
You have to have developed something else that where you

(42:34):
can shrink the time, the time and the speed so
that you just do like a jump, you shrink the
time space continuum. How they do it, I don't know,
but we have two well informed scientists saying that's what
Roswell was.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
All that said, what do you think what's your gut
feeling on where they were from. How do you put
a ball in it?

Speaker 2 (42:54):
What do you think as to the planet. They could
be from another solar system, could be from another galaxy.
I just don't know, Jojo, as to where they're from
or even why they were here. We always get the question,
why do you think they came here? Well, since it
was right after World War Two, maybe it had something
to do with the designation of two atomic devices. We

(43:17):
don't know. But all of a sudden in nineteen forty seven,
two years after the close of World War Two, here
come the flying saucers. And you can only speculate why.
I said had something to do with the development of
atomic weaponry. And the place where that was taking place
was New Mexico, Los Alamos, Sandy E Lab, Kirtland Air
Force Base, Roswell Air Force Base, New Mexico was the

(43:39):
place where all of that was going on. There were
more UFO settings in New Mexico with that year than
anyplace else.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
This is fascinating, Tom. I could talk to you all day,
and you, guys, you have to check out this book,
Witness to Roswell, the seventy fifth anniversary edition, Unmasking the
government's biggest cover up. Final note your wife. You included
a blurb to your wife. You basically said, thanks for
putting up with me.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Yes, yes, my son is really into this, but my
daughter is not, and my wife is a watches over
me fifty four years.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Thank god you're good looking, right, Thank god for that?

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Oh, thank god? Yeah, basically you Jojo, we are as
far as I'm concerned. I don't see where we can
go with it any further. I should have mentioned the
thing we're missing. The only thing we're missing is a
piece of that memory metal.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
Wow, to get your hands on that would be nice, right.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
That would be it. We know they're out there. What
you do is you would hold a press conference and
you say, okay, folks, take a look at this. You
get a piece, put it out, hold it and it
just floats there like that, you know, And then you
grab it again and you try to cut it. You
can't cut it. You can't. You know, you can't break it.
You can't, you can't deform it in any way. We
still don't have anything like that. And you can't burn it,

(44:53):
cut it, scratch it, put a hammer to it. We
don't have anything like it.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
If I ever come across it, I'll hit you up
six