February 20, 2025 • 29 mins
Alabama Policy Institute’s President and CEO Stephanie Smith talks about fiscal and tax policy in the state of Alabama.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Should college athletes and Alabama who have name, image and
likeness deals be subject to tax Hello, I'm John Mounce
and this week on Viewpoint Alabama, we dive into this
topic as we talk with Stephanie Smith from the Alabama
Policy Institute. Stephanie, welcome to Viewpoint.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I wanted to have you on because you penned a
really interesting op ed about this legislation that Representative Joe Leorren.
He has proposed a bill that, if passed, it would
make the earnings of these athletes their exempt from income taxes.
And this kind of brings up an interesting thing of
who should have to pay taxes and who shouldn't, regardless
(00:39):
of where it's derived from. So start there. Why is
it that he thinks that people with those kind of
deals shouldn't have to pay taxes.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I think it's a question of competition from his point
of view, which is, how can our state schools get
the athletes that they want in place with the nil system.
That's a monetary system now. And so my sense from
him and the other supporters of that bill and co
(01:08):
sponsors of that bill, which are Chris Blackshear and Danny
Garrett that they think that they are at the state
of Alabama is or will be at a competitive disadvantage
if those athletes are paying state taxes. That's obviously not
our perspective.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I was going to say, But if you want to
take that road, then what about another industry, like say
that people who work at a steel mill, or in
the banking industry or the you see what I'm saying.
There's a lot of people who could say, well, my
industry is also at a competitive disadvantage because we have
to recruit people to work here and they have to
pay state income taxes.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Couldn't they They absolutely could, and you know, it could
be used as an economic development tool, which is actually
the argument that they're making. They're just only making it
for college athletes. And so the frustrating thing from our
point of view on that tactic is that they're picking
winners and losers, and frankly, they're picking winners from a
(02:07):
group of people who probably aren't from the state of
Alabama and probably won't be in the state of Alabama
for the long term, and so they're creating a competitive
competitive advantage for people who are not going to be
short term or long term Alabama.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
And it almost feels a little bit like feel good
legislation in terms of we're doing this to support, you know,
our athletic programs, because we we want to be a
great booster for the University of Alabama or Auburn or
whatever it is. So we're going to do something that
benefits specifically these athletic institutions, and in doing so, we
can say raw ra go team Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And the problem with that is that the income tax
is a huge part of our taxation system in the
in the state of Alabama, and so there's a there's
only so many dollars in that pie, and so you're
making money away from other types of education and other
governmental programs in order to cater to that specific industry
(03:10):
and that specific handful of people. The other trouble that
we have with it is that the costs are completely unclear.
There's no fiscal note attached to this piece of legislation.
And my guess is the reason there's no fiscal note
is because they have no idea how much it would
actually cost to exempt those athletes. The nil system is changing,
(03:32):
and you know, our estimates are anywhere from twenty to
forty five million dollars on an annual basis would be
not that amount exempted from tax because it's a smaller
percentage of that on the state tax, but the dollar
figure attached to this would be at least in the millions.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And a lot of those dollars would be coming from
outside the state because these name image likeness deals. They're
coming from big companies that probably aren't based in this
state any so those dollars would come from outside the
state into the state. We were always talking about ways
to bring more money in, and this would be a
great way to do it.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, it's one of those things. You know, you're exempting something,
you're exempting something that is work related, but you're picking
certain types of people. And so the interesting dynamic here
is that the same legislators are debating right now whether
or not to sunset a piece of legislation that eliminated
(04:29):
the overtime tax for people who work overtime, you know,
to put food on their tables, and they're talking about
sunsetting that because it quote costs too much to the budget.
But then they're talking about eliminating or you know, exempting
a certain number of people out of a tax that
really don't have a work product that benefits the state.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Another question, and I'm going to go the other way
on this thing, because it seems strange that that we
have so many people who are conservative arguing for taxation.
But I would go the other way and say, what
we actually need is to get rid of the income
tax all together. And as crazy as that sounds, and
I've lived in Tennessee, I've lived in Florida. Neither one
of those states have a state income tax. How crazy
(05:12):
would it be if Alabama also found a way to
eliminate the state income tax.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Well, that's a great question, and it's a question that
I asked our researchers to look at to see what
it would do to our economy to completely eliminate the
personal income tax, not the corporate income tax, but the
personal income tax, the individual income tax. And it looks
like it would depend on what levers you pull, So
(05:40):
the amount of money that it would take to make
up the difference to make the budgets whole if we did,
that would be pretty large, large enough to where the
effective tax rate. Let's say, if you just put it
all into sales taxes, which is a lot of what
other states do. Florida has a high property tax, but
they're whittling that down and putting most of their eggs
(06:03):
in the sales tax basket. So Tennessee as well, Arkansas
is making moves on that. Georgia is making moves to
reduce their income tax in Mississippi. So all of our
surrounding states are kind of marching toward either a flat
tax or a reduced income tax, and they're making up
the difference in sales taxes. Now, our system is skewed
(06:25):
a little bit because we have such low property taxes
in the state of Alabama. But if we kept our
property taxes where they are and then eliminated the personal
income tax, that would mean that our sales tax would
have to go up to about nineteen and a half percent.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Now Florida's sales tax isn't nineteen and a half percent.
Is that they're making it up with, say, I don't
know occupation taxes, or with taxes on vacation rentals or
you know, tickets to Disney World. How are they doing
these other state because I don't think any other of
the other states have a nineteen percent sales tax.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, they don't. But Florida has a very very high
property tax, and we're there. We have the lowest property
tax in the nation. So the main difference between Alabama
and Florida would be the property tax. And I will
I will say again, DeSantis is trying to lower property
taxes right now in the state in Florida, and so
(07:18):
it'll be interesting to see how they balance that out.
But they do have a lot of external sales tax
that's not paid for by their citizens because we all
go to Florida forification.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
And of course this would it would hurt senior citizens,
retire people if we increased property tax because while they
don't have any income other than social Security coming in,
one thing they do pay pay on is the property
they're living in. Maybe the properties even paid off, but
they still have to pay the tax every year.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
That's right. We did have a bill last year that
we helped champion to limit the increases in property tax
to seven percent on an annual basis to try to
protect some of those folks you were describing from being
taxed out of their homes. And so the increases in
property tax have been on the assessment side rather than
(08:09):
the rate side. But the big difference I think between
Alabama and Florida is that resort factor and then also
that property tax factor.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
This is a viewpoint Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network.
My name is John Mountain and speaking with Stephanie Smith
from the Alabama Policy Institute. And Stephanie we're talking about
this tax question and who should pay taxes and how much?
And I would like to actually explore something else that
the Alabama Policy Institute had put out an article on
this week, which is maybe we shouldn't be looking so
(08:40):
much at the income side, but the outgo side. And
I understand that kind of following suit with the President's doge,
your organization is kind of looking at a way that
we maybe should look at the way the state is
spending its money as opposed to just looking how we're
bringing it in.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, that's right. So our state's budgets have increase every
year since twenty sixteen, and they've also been in surplus
since then. And so the question is, you know, we're
bringing in a lot of money in the state of
Alabama relatively and we're almost we're inching up on a
ten billion dollars budget for state government. And the question
(09:19):
to us is is that money all necessary and is
it being spent wisely. So we launched an initiative through
API called ALDOS and in December, and we've been doing
research and analysis on the state's budgets, and then we're
also receiving information from the public on where they see waste,
(09:40):
where they think that there could be increased in efficiencies,
and then we're the third prong of this initiative is
some regulatory reform, because a lot of the expenses that
people end up paying in the state are not even taxes.
They're through regulation. They're through occupational licensing of regulation, there
(10:01):
through corporate regulations, and those are kind of the unseen
taxes that citizens pay, and so we're keeping an eye
on those things as well. So we'll be we'll be
releasing our findings for ALDOS, and we're also looking for
ideas from elected officials and from the general public.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Stephanie, one of the things I think is lacking in
the understanding of the general public is how taxation works.
And I guess this might fall on the poor job
our schools are doing on this subject. But I was
speaking with somebody a while back about the alabam income
tax because I've always been a proponent of getting rid
of it as much as possible. I don't like the
concept of an income tax altogether. But and I say,
(10:42):
you know, a lot of states don't have it. And
I was telling somebody about my ideas on this, and
they told me, they said, well, you can't get away
get rid of it. And I said, why'd I said, well,
I get so much money back from the State of
Alabama every year and when I do when I after
I do my taxes, And I said, you realized that
was your money to begin with, right, you realize that
you sent a whole lot of money. They just gave
you a tiny bit of it back. That's not them, Yeah,
(11:03):
but I get so much more of them from the
federal government. Was because you filled out that that W
four wrong, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Right, No, that's yeah, that's a that's a frustrating thing.
And the financial literacy is definitely not Alabama specific problem,
but it is a problem in Alabama.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
That back to the state income tax question. Our calculations
that in twenty twenty four, that's a five point nine
billion dollar price tag. So if we completely eliminated the
income tax, and I agree with you, ideologically, which is
why we championed that overtime tax elimination. That taxing people
(11:39):
for working disincentivize disincentivizes people for working and working harder,
and so we don't like. We don't like ideologically, we
don't like that tax either. We prefer consumption taxes. Though
the income tax does create a level of prop of
you know, a level of evening of the playing field.
(12:01):
It's not as regressive as sales taxes are, but that
five point nine billion dollar price tag is pretty large.
So we're not advocating for eliminating the income tax. What
we're advocating for is marching toward a flat tax, so
that there is an income tax, but you know what
it is, it's not a graduated rate, and not relying
(12:24):
so much on that and increasing sales taxes and other taxes,
or I know, this is crazy. Since we're in budgetary surplus,
maybe we actually reduce taxes without making the budgets hold.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And those all seem like good ideas, And like I said,
maybe if we're not spent, because it seems like we
do spend an awful lot of money in the state
on things that I scratched my hand. Go do we
really need to spend that money, you know, from dredging
out the mobile bay, all these things that seem like
very expensive things. And when you live in the northern
half of the state, you look down and go, why
are we doing anything mobile? But I realized people mobile
(13:00):
look up here and go why are we doing anything
at Huntsville. So I guess because we're such a large state,
you know, everyone has slightly different different things interests that
they have. It's like, don't don't do away with my thing,
do away with that guy's thing.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
That's right. And the first thing that we came out
with the report that we came out that was this week,
was an analysis of the general Fund budget where we
found that there is over seventy million dollars a year
in that budget that is being sent to either municipalities
or non governmental organizations. And so you see what's happening
(13:35):
in DC with what Elon Musk is doing and calling
attention to these US AID organization and other agencies that
are basically a pass through entity. So there's taxpayer money
coming in and then it's being sent to nonprofits and
non governmental organizations. And the exact same thing is happening
here in Alabama.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Stephanie, the work that you do with the Alabama Policy Institute,
do you have ear of a lot of our state
lawmakers who are able to look at your stuff and go,
you know what, this does make sense. We might actually
put this into legislation. I mean you, are you able
to get any sort of traction on some of the
things you propose, because it's great for me as a
private citizen to read, but I would really like to
see this stuff being read and implemented by the people
(14:19):
in Montgomery.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we're a thirty six year old
organization that's been advocating for limited government and strong families
for literally decades. But we had a shift a couple
of years ago, and our shift and mission has been
not only to present the good ideas and then kind
of set them free, but to shepherd them through the
legislative process. And our goal at API is to run
(14:44):
a good idea, a good conservative principle from inception all
the way through implementation, and so that's what we're working on.
We have the Blueprint for Alabama that we release every year,
which is thirty ideas that we want the legislature to
consider in that session. Last year, twenty five of those
ideas were discussed and seventeen were successful. This year, we're
(15:06):
at twenty seven being discussed so far, and we'll see
how we're just in the thick of the legislative session
and so we'll see how successful we are this year.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Stephanie Smith with the Alabama Policy Institute, thank you so
much for joining us in. Thank you for all the
work that you do on behalf of all of us
here in Alabama. If people want to find out more
about the policies that you're espousing or some of the
work that you're doing recently, where can people go?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
You can go to any of the social media outlets Facebook, Instagram,
x and we're they're at Alabama Policy and then our
website is Alabama policy dot org.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Thank you very much, Stephanie, Thank you so much. And
now on Viewpoint Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network, we're
and check in with Manny Munnos.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Mentorship being a guide for our communities, our nations, our
world's future leaders. Something many of us might know about,
few actually undertake. But how impactful can it be to
mentor someone for both sides of the question. Let's talk
about it as we bring in doctor William Keyes, former
White House Policy Advisor, founder of the Institute for Responsible Citizenship,
(16:10):
and his book is titled The Stories They Hear Expecting
Greatness as a Key to Success, Doctor Keys, I appreciate
the time.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Thank you, Manny. It's great to be with you.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Let me start off with the institute because mentorship, the book,
all of it seems to be a culmination of your
life's work. Am I right about that?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
You could say that certainly the last twenty two years
of it.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Talk to me about the Institute for Responsible Citizenship? What
is it? Where did the idea to created come from?
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Twenty two years ago? I created a program for some
of the best and broadnest African American male college students
in the country. And I did that in response to
a real frustration that I had that the most ignored
demographic in America was talented young black men. You know,
(17:00):
you think probably surprising when I say that, but if
you think about it, in so many cases, folks who
will look at hardworking, talented, ambitious young black men and say,
you know, that's great, but they're going to be fine.
I want to help the kids who really need help.
(17:21):
And you know that's well meaning. It's thoughtful, except for
the fact that those young men who are hardworking, talented
and ambitious they need help too. And if they're going
to go as far as their talents might take them,
they're going to end up in positions where they are
competing with people who are receiving a ton of support.
(17:42):
And in many cases we wonder why they flame out
and don't achieve what they may have. It's because we're
expecting them on their own to compete against other peoples,
in some cases, other people's entire communities. It's just not
a fair competition. So I thought, what if we actually
support some of these young men and give them some
(18:05):
of the tools that can help them be extraordinarily successful,
and let's see what will happen. And in twenty two years,
you know, we select twelve young men each year, and
in twenty two years we worked with almost three hundred
young men. And those young men include a member of
the New York State Supreme Court. They include surgeons at
(18:26):
great hospitals like Johns, Hopkins and Baltimore. They're on the
Philadelphia City Council, the Baltimore School Board. They're professors at
top universities like Duke Brand eyed University of Tennessee. They
are entrepreneurs who are hiring people. They're doing all kinds
of amazing things. So the proof that's really in the
(18:47):
putting if we support people who have great potential that
can pay great dividends. And man, if you don't, I
want to say one other things. It probably sounds like
I'm talking about an investment in three hundred people, which
it is, but that's not really our objective. Our objective
(19:07):
is that we're supporting three hundred people who will impact
the lives of millions of people. So the investment in
the young man who is a surgeon at Johns Hopkins,
it's not just about him. It's about all of those
patients he will treat over the course of a career,
and their families and the people that they will influence.
So that's what the institute is all about. That's what
(19:30):
we're doing. We're seeing amazing results, and we've written this
book because we want to say, Okay, here's what has
led to these phenomenal results. And if you want to
see these results yourself, maybe you can learn about what
we've done and it could be instructive for you.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
And these amazing African American young men clearly with all
the tools to succeed, but might not have been able
to reach their potential without that helping handle, without that guidance.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yes, so that's a really good point that I also
want to make, which is the subtitle is expecting greatness
to keep to success. And after the book was written
and we had that subtitle on the cover, it occurred
to me that success is not really my objective because
most of these young men get selected for the institute
(20:21):
because they're already demonstrating that they're going to be successful.
My goal is not to help them be successful. My
goal is to help them become difference makers. That's different.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
We're speaking here on Black History Month. Why do you
think that African American young men, who are already, as
you mentioned, showing all the potential in the world, are
still such an underserved demographic in our society.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
In nineteen ten, WB du Bois wrote about how he
was trying to develop a system of higher education for
Negros and he would go to philanthropists to ask for
support and they would say, that's great, but the kind
of people who could take advantage of a higher education
should be able to take care of themselves. And when
(21:08):
I read that, I pounded my desk and I said,
I'll be damned, I'm dealing with the same thing more
than a century later, where you know, we're just making
the assumption that talented young black men and women, frankly
ought to be able to just go it on their own.
And those same philanthropists who will say that about young
(21:30):
black men and women will also go out and create
merit scholarship programs back in those days for talented young
white men. So why that's it that talented young black
folks ought to be able to go it on their own,
but then they wanted to provide all kinds of structures
to provide support for talented young white people for them
(21:53):
to be successful.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, I got people get upset with me sometimes when
I say that I've never walked a foot and the
shoes of a of a black man in this country
because I haven't lived what they've lived, nor do I
face the obstacles that they potentially faced. Did you have
a mentor that got you to the point where you
are in life?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
You know, I talked to young people about how you
know they will, you know, go to go to class
and you know they turn in their first project for class,
and they didn't really put their whole heart into it,
and they did a mediocre job. And then the professor
hands back their project and pats them on the back
and says how great that is, and they The typical
(22:37):
response would be for that student to say, oh, Wow,
I got over The reality is you didn't get over it.
You got pumped. Because that's the moment when you should say,
wait a minute, that professor thinks that's my best work,
just like what people are expecting that your your mediocre
(22:58):
work is your best work. To start producing mediocal work
on a regular basis, and then guess what, you end
up living a pretty mediocre life.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
A few more minutes here with doctor William Keys, former
White House Policy advisor, founder of the Institute for Responsible
Citizenship and the author of The Stories They Hear, Expecting
greatness as the keys to success. How how difficult it
is when people, especially young African American men, with all
the potential, have limiting beliefs, They have self doubt about
(23:28):
just how far they could go, and how do you
help them overcome that?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Wow, what a great question. The title of this book,
The Stories They Hear, That's how we do it. You know,
at the institute, folks ask what is it that's so
special about what we do? When you think about all
the components of it, whether it's internships or or the
(23:54):
academic seminars or meetings with high power people, there are
lots of folks who do those things. I think the
thing that really makes the difference, it's the conversations we
have around the dinner table. You talk about the self doubt,
that's where we deal with that at the dinner table,
where we're sitting there with twelve junior twelve seniors, and
we're having these real conversations about their lives, where we
(24:17):
communicate the values and the expectations that lead to these
young men becoming, you know, the successful people they are.
It's with those conversations. I can invite all of your
listeners to come sit at the dinner table with us.
But what I decided was that I would put those conversations,
those stories into a book that they could read. So
(24:40):
whether they are you know, a Scout troop leader or
a youth pastor, or a teacher or a professor or whatever,
when they work with young people, they would see some
of the things that we talk about that have led. Listen,
if I were a basketball coach, everybody will and we
want a championship, everybody will want to know, Okay, what
(25:00):
is it that you do to help your team be successful? Right? Well,
I think what we're doing is far more important, and
so therefore we wanted to put those stories in a
book so that people could see what it is that
we talk about.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Every successful person I've always spoken to tells me that
they've learned more from their failures than from their successes.
That being said, it can be quite difficult to overcome
repeated failures. How do you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Well, one of the things I do from the very
beginning is to make sure these young men know that
I am not a perfect person, and I tell them
that they're fortunate that they have someone in their life
who has failed. You know, I've had a lot of
successes in life, but I've also had a lot of failures.
And I tell them, you do not want to have
a mentor you know who is pretending to you that
(25:51):
he's never failed at anything, because if you do, you
are going to fail at something. You don't want to
go to someone who's not going to understand it. Want
to come to someone like me, who's going to say, so,
that's what it is that you're so worried about. Okay,
that's the problem, and how we're going to overcome it,
because this is not going to stop you. So failure
(26:13):
is a part of it. You know. The only way
you don't fail is if you don't try anything difficult.
And part of what is preparing these young men to
do so well is that we're challenging them to do
difficult things. We're putting them in a very, very very
rigorous environment where when they apply to Harvard Law School,
(26:34):
I am going to be able to say we put
them through a really really rigorous, rigorous program and they
thrived in this environment. I have every confidence they will
thrive at Harvard Law School. And so what's a result.
In May? I went up to see our thirteenth, fourteenth,
and fifteenth Alump alumni graduate from Harvard Law School. And
(26:57):
remember we're only an organization a few more than three
hundred people. So I think the propose in the pudding
you put people through tough, rigorous challenges, and when they
succeed at them, there's no more self doubt. You asked
about self doubt, there's no more self doubt, there's no
more worry. They still face tough challenges, but they're able
(27:19):
to go face those challenges with the confidence that I
can do the work that is going to enable me
to succeed.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
What is their culture, their life experience as young African
American men in the United States, How does that play
into this whole equation of success greatness?
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Yeah, yeah, so, first of all, you know, other than
the fact that all of our scholars are African American men,
it is quite a diverse group. They come from all
over the country, from all different backgrounds, you know, all
types of family backgrounds, their ambitions are different, so they're
pretty pretty different. But you know, to your point, you know,
(28:02):
one of the common factors is that they are young
men of color who in so many cases are treated
certain ways simply because of the way they look. And
we talk about that very very you know, very directly,
and say, okay, that's the reality. Now what do we
do about it? And I think that's a pretty important
(28:25):
part of what the institute is about, where these young
men will say, this is the first time I've ever
been in a room, you know, with young men like
myself where we're able to have these kinds of conversations,
and you know, we talk about the Institute being a
safe space, and I say, not like the safe space
that you have back on your college campus where people
(28:46):
just want to be safe from here and you say
something that they disagree with. Right now. This is a
real safe space where we're going to have real conversations.
And let me just tell you something. I walk away
from a lot of those ghost dinner time conversations with
tears in my eyes just thinking about, you know, what
some of these young men have had to overcome in
(29:07):
their lives, what they're dealing with, but even more so,
tears of pride with what these young men are achieving
and what they're committed to achieving for reasons that are
bigger than just themselves.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Doctor William Keyes, former White House Policy Advisor, founder the
Institute for Responsible Citizenship, and the author of The Stories
They Hear Expecting Greatness as the Key to Success. Doctor Keith,
thank you so much for sharing your time, your expertise.
Best of love, couid with the book in the Institute,
Thank you so much. You've been listening to Viewpoint Alabama,
(29:40):
a public affairs program from the Alabama Radio Network. The
opinions expressed on Viewpoint Alabama are not necessarily those of
the staff, management, or advertisers of this station.
Should college athletes and Alabama who have name, image and
likeness deals be subject to tax Hello, I'm John Mounce
and this week on Viewpoint Alabama, we dive into this
topic as we talk with Stephanie Smith from the Alabama
Policy Institute. Stephanie, welcome to Viewpoint.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Thank you so much. I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I wanted to have you on because you penned a
really interesting op ed about this legislation that Representative Joe Leorren.
He has proposed a bill that, if passed, it would
make the earnings of these athletes their exempt from income taxes.
And this kind of brings up an interesting thing of
who should have to pay taxes and who shouldn't, regardless
(00:39):
of where it's derived from. So start there. Why is
it that he thinks that people with those kind of
deals shouldn't have to pay taxes.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I think it's a question of competition from his point
of view, which is, how can our state schools get
the athletes that they want in place with the nil system.
That's a monetary system now. And so my sense from
him and the other supporters of that bill and co
(01:08):
sponsors of that bill, which are Chris Blackshear and Danny
Garrett that they think that they are at the state
of Alabama is or will be at a competitive disadvantage
if those athletes are paying state taxes. That's obviously not
our perspective.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I was going to say, But if you want to
take that road, then what about another industry, like say
that people who work at a steel mill, or in
the banking industry or the you see what I'm saying.
There's a lot of people who could say, well, my
industry is also at a competitive disadvantage because we have
to recruit people to work here and they have to
pay state income taxes.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Couldn't they They absolutely could, and you know, it could
be used as an economic development tool, which is actually
the argument that they're making. They're just only making it
for college athletes. And so the frustrating thing from our
point of view on that tactic is that they're picking
winners and losers, and frankly, they're picking winners from a
(02:07):
group of people who probably aren't from the state of
Alabama and probably won't be in the state of Alabama
for the long term, and so they're creating a competitive
competitive advantage for people who are not going to be
short term or long term Alabama.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
And it almost feels a little bit like feel good
legislation in terms of we're doing this to support, you know,
our athletic programs, because we we want to be a
great booster for the University of Alabama or Auburn or
whatever it is. So we're going to do something that
benefits specifically these athletic institutions, and in doing so, we
can say raw ra go team Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And the problem with that is that the income tax
is a huge part of our taxation system in the
in the state of Alabama, and so there's a there's
only so many dollars in that pie, and so you're
making money away from other types of education and other
governmental programs in order to cater to that specific industry
(03:10):
and that specific handful of people. The other trouble that
we have with it is that the costs are completely unclear.
There's no fiscal note attached to this piece of legislation.
And my guess is the reason there's no fiscal note
is because they have no idea how much it would
actually cost to exempt those athletes. The nil system is changing,
(03:32):
and you know, our estimates are anywhere from twenty to
forty five million dollars on an annual basis would be
not that amount exempted from tax because it's a smaller
percentage of that on the state tax, but the dollar
figure attached to this would be at least in the millions.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And a lot of those dollars would be coming from
outside the state because these name image likeness deals. They're
coming from big companies that probably aren't based in this
state any so those dollars would come from outside the
state into the state. We were always talking about ways
to bring more money in, and this would be a
great way to do it.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, it's one of those things. You know, you're exempting something,
you're exempting something that is work related, but you're picking
certain types of people. And so the interesting dynamic here
is that the same legislators are debating right now whether
or not to sunset a piece of legislation that eliminated
(04:29):
the overtime tax for people who work overtime, you know,
to put food on their tables, and they're talking about
sunsetting that because it quote costs too much to the budget.
But then they're talking about eliminating or you know, exempting
a certain number of people out of a tax that
really don't have a work product that benefits the state.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Another question, and I'm going to go the other way
on this thing, because it seems strange that that we
have so many people who are conservative arguing for taxation.
But I would go the other way and say, what
we actually need is to get rid of the income
tax all together. And as crazy as that sounds, and
I've lived in Tennessee, I've lived in Florida. Neither one
of those states have a state income tax. How crazy
(05:12):
would it be if Alabama also found a way to
eliminate the state income tax.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Well, that's a great question, and it's a question that
I asked our researchers to look at to see what
it would do to our economy to completely eliminate the
personal income tax, not the corporate income tax, but the
personal income tax, the individual income tax. And it looks
like it would depend on what levers you pull, So
(05:40):
the amount of money that it would take to make
up the difference to make the budgets whole if we did,
that would be pretty large, large enough to where the
effective tax rate. Let's say, if you just put it
all into sales taxes, which is a lot of what
other states do. Florida has a high property tax, but
they're whittling that down and putting most of their eggs
(06:03):
in the sales tax basket. So Tennessee as well, Arkansas
is making moves on that. Georgia is making moves to
reduce their income tax in Mississippi. So all of our
surrounding states are kind of marching toward either a flat
tax or a reduced income tax, and they're making up
the difference in sales taxes. Now, our system is skewed
(06:25):
a little bit because we have such low property taxes
in the state of Alabama. But if we kept our
property taxes where they are and then eliminated the personal
income tax, that would mean that our sales tax would
have to go up to about nineteen and a half percent.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Now Florida's sales tax isn't nineteen and a half percent.
Is that they're making it up with, say, I don't
know occupation taxes, or with taxes on vacation rentals or
you know, tickets to Disney World. How are they doing
these other state because I don't think any other of
the other states have a nineteen percent sales tax.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, they don't. But Florida has a very very high
property tax, and we're there. We have the lowest property
tax in the nation. So the main difference between Alabama
and Florida would be the property tax. And I will
I will say again, DeSantis is trying to lower property
taxes right now in the state in Florida, and so
(07:18):
it'll be interesting to see how they balance that out.
But they do have a lot of external sales tax
that's not paid for by their citizens because we all
go to Florida forification.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
And of course this would it would hurt senior citizens,
retire people if we increased property tax because while they
don't have any income other than social Security coming in,
one thing they do pay pay on is the property
they're living in. Maybe the properties even paid off, but
they still have to pay the tax every year.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
That's right. We did have a bill last year that
we helped champion to limit the increases in property tax
to seven percent on an annual basis to try to
protect some of those folks you were describing from being
taxed out of their homes. And so the increases in
property tax have been on the assessment side rather than
(08:09):
the rate side. But the big difference I think between
Alabama and Florida is that resort factor and then also
that property tax factor.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
This is a viewpoint Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network.
My name is John Mountain and speaking with Stephanie Smith
from the Alabama Policy Institute. And Stephanie we're talking about
this tax question and who should pay taxes and how much?
And I would like to actually explore something else that
the Alabama Policy Institute had put out an article on
this week, which is maybe we shouldn't be looking so
(08:40):
much at the income side, but the outgo side. And
I understand that kind of following suit with the President's doge,
your organization is kind of looking at a way that
we maybe should look at the way the state is
spending its money as opposed to just looking how we're
bringing it in.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, that's right. So our state's budgets have increase every
year since twenty sixteen, and they've also been in surplus
since then. And so the question is, you know, we're
bringing in a lot of money in the state of
Alabama relatively and we're almost we're inching up on a
ten billion dollars budget for state government. And the question
(09:19):
to us is is that money all necessary and is
it being spent wisely. So we launched an initiative through
API called ALDOS and in December, and we've been doing
research and analysis on the state's budgets, and then we're
also receiving information from the public on where they see waste,
(09:40):
where they think that there could be increased in efficiencies,
and then we're the third prong of this initiative is
some regulatory reform, because a lot of the expenses that
people end up paying in the state are not even taxes.
They're through regulation. They're through occupational licensing of regulation, there
(10:01):
through corporate regulations, and those are kind of the unseen
taxes that citizens pay, and so we're keeping an eye
on those things as well. So we'll be we'll be
releasing our findings for ALDOS, and we're also looking for
ideas from elected officials and from the general public.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Stephanie, one of the things I think is lacking in
the understanding of the general public is how taxation works.
And I guess this might fall on the poor job
our schools are doing on this subject. But I was
speaking with somebody a while back about the alabam income
tax because I've always been a proponent of getting rid
of it as much as possible. I don't like the
concept of an income tax altogether. But and I say,
(10:42):
you know, a lot of states don't have it. And
I was telling somebody about my ideas on this, and
they told me, they said, well, you can't get away
get rid of it. And I said, why'd I said, well,
I get so much money back from the State of
Alabama every year and when I do when I after
I do my taxes, And I said, you realized that
was your money to begin with, right, you realize that
you sent a whole lot of money. They just gave
you a tiny bit of it back. That's not them, Yeah,
(11:03):
but I get so much more of them from the
federal government. Was because you filled out that that W
four wrong, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Right, No, that's yeah, that's a that's a frustrating thing.
And the financial literacy is definitely not Alabama specific problem,
but it is a problem in Alabama.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
That back to the state income tax question. Our calculations
that in twenty twenty four, that's a five point nine
billion dollar price tag. So if we completely eliminated the
income tax, and I agree with you, ideologically, which is
why we championed that overtime tax elimination. That taxing people
(11:39):
for working disincentivize disincentivizes people for working and working harder,
and so we don't like. We don't like ideologically, we
don't like that tax either. We prefer consumption taxes. Though
the income tax does create a level of prop of
you know, a level of evening of the playing field.
(12:01):
It's not as regressive as sales taxes are, but that
five point nine billion dollar price tag is pretty large.
So we're not advocating for eliminating the income tax. What
we're advocating for is marching toward a flat tax, so
that there is an income tax, but you know what
it is, it's not a graduated rate, and not relying
(12:24):
so much on that and increasing sales taxes and other taxes,
or I know, this is crazy. Since we're in budgetary surplus,
maybe we actually reduce taxes without making the budgets hold.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And those all seem like good ideas, And like I said,
maybe if we're not spent, because it seems like we
do spend an awful lot of money in the state
on things that I scratched my hand. Go do we
really need to spend that money, you know, from dredging
out the mobile bay, all these things that seem like
very expensive things. And when you live in the northern
half of the state, you look down and go, why
are we doing anything mobile? But I realized people mobile
(13:00):
look up here and go why are we doing anything
at Huntsville. So I guess because we're such a large state,
you know, everyone has slightly different different things interests that
they have. It's like, don't don't do away with my thing,
do away with that guy's thing.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
That's right. And the first thing that we came out
with the report that we came out that was this week,
was an analysis of the general Fund budget where we
found that there is over seventy million dollars a year
in that budget that is being sent to either municipalities
or non governmental organizations. And so you see what's happening
(13:35):
in DC with what Elon Musk is doing and calling
attention to these US AID organization and other agencies that
are basically a pass through entity. So there's taxpayer money
coming in and then it's being sent to nonprofits and
non governmental organizations. And the exact same thing is happening
here in Alabama.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Stephanie, the work that you do with the Alabama Policy Institute,
do you have ear of a lot of our state
lawmakers who are able to look at your stuff and go,
you know what, this does make sense. We might actually
put this into legislation. I mean you, are you able
to get any sort of traction on some of the
things you propose, because it's great for me as a
private citizen to read, but I would really like to
see this stuff being read and implemented by the people
(14:19):
in Montgomery.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we're a thirty six year old
organization that's been advocating for limited government and strong families
for literally decades. But we had a shift a couple
of years ago, and our shift and mission has been
not only to present the good ideas and then kind
of set them free, but to shepherd them through the
legislative process. And our goal at API is to run
(14:44):
a good idea, a good conservative principle from inception all
the way through implementation, and so that's what we're working on.
We have the Blueprint for Alabama that we release every year,
which is thirty ideas that we want the legislature to
consider in that session. Last year, twenty five of those
ideas were discussed and seventeen were successful. This year, we're
(15:06):
at twenty seven being discussed so far, and we'll see
how we're just in the thick of the legislative session
and so we'll see how successful we are this year.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Stephanie Smith with the Alabama Policy Institute, thank you so
much for joining us in. Thank you for all the
work that you do on behalf of all of us
here in Alabama. If people want to find out more
about the policies that you're espousing or some of the
work that you're doing recently, where can people go?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
You can go to any of the social media outlets Facebook, Instagram,
x and we're they're at Alabama Policy and then our
website is Alabama policy dot org.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Thank you very much, Stephanie, Thank you so much. And
now on Viewpoint Alabama on the Alabama Radio Network, we're
and check in with Manny Munnos.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Mentorship being a guide for our communities, our nations, our
world's future leaders. Something many of us might know about,
few actually undertake. But how impactful can it be to
mentor someone for both sides of the question. Let's talk
about it as we bring in doctor William Keyes, former
White House Policy Advisor, founder of the Institute for Responsible Citizenship,
(16:10):
and his book is titled The Stories They Hear Expecting
Greatness as a Key to Success, Doctor Keys, I appreciate
the time.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Thank you, Manny. It's great to be with you.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Let me start off with the institute because mentorship, the book,
all of it seems to be a culmination of your
life's work. Am I right about that?
Speaker 3 (16:28):
You could say that certainly the last twenty two years
of it.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Talk to me about the Institute for Responsible Citizenship? What
is it? Where did the idea to created come from?
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Twenty two years ago? I created a program for some
of the best and broadnest African American male college students
in the country. And I did that in response to
a real frustration that I had that the most ignored
demographic in America was talented young black men. You know,
(17:00):
you think probably surprising when I say that, but if
you think about it, in so many cases, folks who
will look at hardworking, talented, ambitious young black men and say,
you know, that's great, but they're going to be fine.
I want to help the kids who really need help.
(17:21):
And you know that's well meaning. It's thoughtful, except for
the fact that those young men who are hardworking, talented
and ambitious they need help too. And if they're going
to go as far as their talents might take them,
they're going to end up in positions where they are
competing with people who are receiving a ton of support.
(17:42):
And in many cases we wonder why they flame out
and don't achieve what they may have. It's because we're
expecting them on their own to compete against other peoples,
in some cases, other people's entire communities. It's just not
a fair competition. So I thought, what if we actually
support some of these young men and give them some
(18:05):
of the tools that can help them be extraordinarily successful,
and let's see what will happen. And in twenty two years,
you know, we select twelve young men each year, and
in twenty two years we worked with almost three hundred
young men. And those young men include a member of
the New York State Supreme Court. They include surgeons at
(18:26):
great hospitals like Johns, Hopkins and Baltimore. They're on the
Philadelphia City Council, the Baltimore School Board. They're professors at
top universities like Duke Brand eyed University of Tennessee. They
are entrepreneurs who are hiring people. They're doing all kinds
of amazing things. So the proof that's really in the
(18:47):
putting if we support people who have great potential that
can pay great dividends. And man, if you don't, I
want to say one other things. It probably sounds like
I'm talking about an investment in three hundred people, which
it is, but that's not really our objective. Our objective
(19:07):
is that we're supporting three hundred people who will impact
the lives of millions of people. So the investment in
the young man who is a surgeon at Johns Hopkins,
it's not just about him. It's about all of those
patients he will treat over the course of a career,
and their families and the people that they will influence.
So that's what the institute is all about. That's what
(19:30):
we're doing. We're seeing amazing results, and we've written this
book because we want to say, Okay, here's what has
led to these phenomenal results. And if you want to
see these results yourself, maybe you can learn about what
we've done and it could be instructive for you.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
And these amazing African American young men clearly with all
the tools to succeed, but might not have been able
to reach their potential without that helping handle, without that guidance.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yes, so that's a really good point that I also
want to make, which is the subtitle is expecting greatness
to keep to success. And after the book was written
and we had that subtitle on the cover, it occurred
to me that success is not really my objective because
most of these young men get selected for the institute
(20:21):
because they're already demonstrating that they're going to be successful.
My goal is not to help them be successful. My
goal is to help them become difference makers. That's different.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
We're speaking here on Black History Month. Why do you
think that African American young men, who are already, as
you mentioned, showing all the potential in the world, are
still such an underserved demographic in our society.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
In nineteen ten, WB du Bois wrote about how he
was trying to develop a system of higher education for
Negros and he would go to philanthropists to ask for
support and they would say, that's great, but the kind
of people who could take advantage of a higher education
should be able to take care of themselves. And when
(21:08):
I read that, I pounded my desk and I said,
I'll be damned, I'm dealing with the same thing more
than a century later, where you know, we're just making
the assumption that talented young black men and women, frankly
ought to be able to just go it on their own.
And those same philanthropists who will say that about young
(21:30):
black men and women will also go out and create
merit scholarship programs back in those days for talented young
white men. So why that's it that talented young black
folks ought to be able to go it on their own,
but then they wanted to provide all kinds of structures
to provide support for talented young white people for them
(21:53):
to be successful.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Yeah, I got people get upset with me sometimes when
I say that I've never walked a foot and the
shoes of a of a black man in this country
because I haven't lived what they've lived, nor do I
face the obstacles that they potentially faced. Did you have
a mentor that got you to the point where you
are in life?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
You know, I talked to young people about how you
know they will, you know, go to go to class
and you know they turn in their first project for class,
and they didn't really put their whole heart into it,
and they did a mediocre job. And then the professor
hands back their project and pats them on the back
and says how great that is, and they The typical
(22:37):
response would be for that student to say, oh, Wow,
I got over The reality is you didn't get over it.
You got pumped. Because that's the moment when you should say,
wait a minute, that professor thinks that's my best work,
just like what people are expecting that your your mediocre
(22:58):
work is your best work. To start producing mediocal work
on a regular basis, and then guess what, you end
up living a pretty mediocre life.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
A few more minutes here with doctor William Keys, former
White House Policy advisor, founder of the Institute for Responsible
Citizenship and the author of The Stories They Hear, Expecting
greatness as the keys to success. How how difficult it
is when people, especially young African American men, with all
the potential, have limiting beliefs, They have self doubt about
(23:28):
just how far they could go, and how do you
help them overcome that?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Wow, what a great question. The title of this book,
The Stories They Hear, That's how we do it. You know,
at the institute, folks ask what is it that's so
special about what we do? When you think about all
the components of it, whether it's internships or or the
(23:54):
academic seminars or meetings with high power people, there are
lots of folks who do those things. I think the
thing that really makes the difference, it's the conversations we
have around the dinner table. You talk about the self doubt,
that's where we deal with that at the dinner table,
where we're sitting there with twelve junior twelve seniors, and
we're having these real conversations about their lives, where we
(24:17):
communicate the values and the expectations that lead to these
young men becoming, you know, the successful people they are.
It's with those conversations. I can invite all of your
listeners to come sit at the dinner table with us.
But what I decided was that I would put those conversations,
those stories into a book that they could read. So
(24:40):
whether they are you know, a Scout troop leader or
a youth pastor, or a teacher or a professor or whatever,
when they work with young people, they would see some
of the things that we talk about that have led. Listen,
if I were a basketball coach, everybody will and we
want a championship, everybody will want to know, Okay, what
(25:00):
is it that you do to help your team be successful? Right? Well,
I think what we're doing is far more important, and
so therefore we wanted to put those stories in a
book so that people could see what it is that
we talk about.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Every successful person I've always spoken to tells me that
they've learned more from their failures than from their successes.
That being said, it can be quite difficult to overcome
repeated failures. How do you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Well, one of the things I do from the very
beginning is to make sure these young men know that
I am not a perfect person, and I tell them
that they're fortunate that they have someone in their life
who has failed. You know, I've had a lot of
successes in life, but I've also had a lot of failures.
And I tell them, you do not want to have
a mentor you know who is pretending to you that
(25:51):
he's never failed at anything, because if you do, you
are going to fail at something. You don't want to
go to someone who's not going to understand it. Want
to come to someone like me, who's going to say, so,
that's what it is that you're so worried about. Okay,
that's the problem, and how we're going to overcome it,
because this is not going to stop you. So failure
(26:13):
is a part of it. You know. The only way
you don't fail is if you don't try anything difficult.
And part of what is preparing these young men to
do so well is that we're challenging them to do
difficult things. We're putting them in a very, very very
rigorous environment where when they apply to Harvard Law School,
(26:34):
I am going to be able to say we put
them through a really really rigorous, rigorous program and they
thrived in this environment. I have every confidence they will
thrive at Harvard Law School. And so what's a result.
In May? I went up to see our thirteenth, fourteenth,
and fifteenth Alump alumni graduate from Harvard Law School. And
(26:57):
remember we're only an organization a few more than three
hundred people. So I think the propose in the pudding
you put people through tough, rigorous challenges, and when they
succeed at them, there's no more self doubt. You asked
about self doubt, there's no more self doubt, there's no
more worry. They still face tough challenges, but they're able
(27:19):
to go face those challenges with the confidence that I
can do the work that is going to enable me
to succeed.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
What is their culture, their life experience as young African
American men in the United States, How does that play
into this whole equation of success greatness?
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Yeah, yeah, so, first of all, you know, other than
the fact that all of our scholars are African American men,
it is quite a diverse group. They come from all
over the country, from all different backgrounds, you know, all
types of family backgrounds, their ambitions are different, so they're
pretty pretty different. But you know, to your point, you know,
(28:02):
one of the common factors is that they are young
men of color who in so many cases are treated
certain ways simply because of the way they look. And
we talk about that very very you know, very directly,
and say, okay, that's the reality. Now what do we
do about it? And I think that's a pretty important
(28:25):
part of what the institute is about, where these young
men will say, this is the first time I've ever
been in a room, you know, with young men like
myself where we're able to have these kinds of conversations,
and you know, we talk about the Institute being a
safe space, and I say, not like the safe space
that you have back on your college campus where people
(28:46):
just want to be safe from here and you say
something that they disagree with. Right now. This is a
real safe space where we're going to have real conversations.
And let me just tell you something. I walk away
from a lot of those ghost dinner time conversations with
tears in my eyes just thinking about, you know, what
some of these young men have had to overcome in
(29:07):
their lives, what they're dealing with, but even more so,
tears of pride with what these young men are achieving
and what they're committed to achieving for reasons that are
bigger than just themselves.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Doctor William Keyes, former White House Policy Advisor, founder the
Institute for Responsible Citizenship, and the author of The Stories
They Hear Expecting Greatness as the Key to Success. Doctor Keith,
thank you so much for sharing your time, your expertise.
Best of love, couid with the book in the Institute,
Thank you so much. You've been listening to Viewpoint Alabama,
(29:40):
a public affairs program from the Alabama Radio Network. The
opinions expressed on Viewpoint Alabama are not necessarily those of
the staff, management, or advertisers of this station.
Popular Podcasts
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!