Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So I'm gonna jump right into it here.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I rarely start the show with an interview, but I'm
going to.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Today.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Around my neighborhood, we've noticed a few dead pine trees.
I use the pine the term pine generically. I don't
know if it's a pine or a spruce or whatever,
but something in that category, and don't know what's going
on with that. And then, sort of coincidentally, I saw
a piece in the Colorado Sun. Colorado's tree eating pine
beetles are surging back after a prolonged dry spell. I'm
(00:31):
also aware, though, that there's another bug around that could
be causing some serious problems. So joining us to help
us understand what is or might be going on with
our forests and trees that aren't in forests but elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Dan West.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Dan is the forest entomologist, meaning the bug guy for
the Colorado State Forest Service. Hey Dan, thanks for making
time for us this morning.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hey, good morning, pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
So let's start with pine beetles.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So it seems to me like they were the only
thing to talk about for a few years, and then
nobody talked about them for a few years. So did
it feel that way to you? And if so, why
did that happen and is it changing again?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, mountain pine beetle is an interesting one. We did
see about eighty percent of our pine forest in the
state were affected, give or take, from about nineteen ninety
six to two thoy and fourteen. And the reason for
that is that decline is because you'll recall right twenty
thirteen is when we had the Biblical rains or the
torrential rain one hundred year rain event that occurred along
(01:35):
the Front Range, and that really allowed trees to suck
up as much water as they possibly could, turn that
water into resin, and be able to defend themselves against
mountain pine beetle. Now, what we've seen, maybe ten years later,
just about eleven years later, is that mountain pine beetle
is resurging again. Has been for a number of years
pretty much. We've seen increases since twenty twenty all the
(01:57):
way back during the pandemic and now particularly along the
Front Range. I saw a pretty market jump almost twice
as many infested trees were recorded from our aerial survey
from twenty twenty three through twenty twenty four, so starting
to be slightly more alarming along the Front range where
(02:17):
for about ten years they really saw kind of a
hiatus from attack from these bark beetles.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So the short answer there is what are weather means
the trees are able to defend themselves against the beatles better?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Well, yeah, tree take water and turn it into resin,
and then they are able to defend against these bark
beetles through attacking them. The challenge is is that in
Colorado we've had above average temperatures for the last thirty
one years, so that makes it hard for a tree
to try to retain as much water as they possibly can.
And then you throw on top of that, four out
(02:53):
of the last five years have been below or well
below average precipitation. One of those years in twenty twenty one,
actually five inches below one hundred year average. So it's
really hard for trees to basically defend themselves when it's
much warmer and they're not getting as much water as
they certainly need. So these bark beetles are just able
to then build up their populations relatively quickly. You'll recall
(03:15):
kind of middle school math where we were learning about
exponential curves. That's how these bark beetles build up their population.
Super quick, and in these years where trees just don't
quite have enough defenses, the bark beetles are able to
continue to build up their populations and continue to attack
otherwise healthy trees.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Obviously, the geographical scale of this problem may be the
answer to the question I'm going to ask you now,
but have there been any kind of advances in ways
that humans can try to prevent the spread of bark
beetle on a scale that matters, right, like separate from
you know, just around my house or something, And I
don't even know if that's possible.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, we do have some tools now that there has
been some fertile ground in research that has we figured
out how bark beetles communicate with one another, and we've
figured out a way to disrupt that communication. The challenge
is is that it's not it has to be done
every single year, and it's easily applied. They're made in
these little bubbles that you can staple onto your trees,
(04:17):
and it's kind of like the no vacancy sign, right.
It tells incoming beetles that, oh, hey, there's no food
for my babies in this tree, and they continue to
fly through the forest. So there is some challenges with that, right,
it pushes it to your neighbor's yard or to the
next track of land, and if you know we're not
doing that on a widespread scale, that becomes a challenge.
(04:38):
But you know, we still always have the traditional you know,
mechanical removals and trying to leave the residual trees make
them the most vigorous, but sometimes that's not feasible, you know,
in your neighborhood, or if you're trying to use trees
as kind of a screen so that you can get
some privacy, there's there's you know, there's some considerations there.
But and then of course the ugly side of all
(04:59):
of the entomology is we can still use chemical sprays
to prevent attack from trees, but that also isn't a
silver bullet because we can't use that stuff around water.
It's a nerve talks and is toxic to humans as well.
So you know, there's kind of challenges for everything, and
really that's not the one size fits all. It kind
of takes a forester to get in there and say, oh, hey,
(05:20):
here's kind of the suite of tools that we would
use to make this slightly better.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Okay, let's move on from the pine needle and talk
about the budworm.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
What exactly is this thing? How concerning is it?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, it's a small moth in the adult form. It's
a little caterpillar that chews on the needles of both
spruce and Douglas fir. So the devils in the details,
you got to figure out which tree species you've got.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
It's our most.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Widespread forest pest in Colorado and has been for a
number of years. The total amount of acres that we've
seen in Colorado is continuing to inch up every every year,
and we haven't seen levels that we've seen in twenty
twenty four for seven years prior. So certainly impactful. But
(06:10):
the interesting thing about this little caterpillar or moth if
you will, is that it doesn't outright kill a tree.
It just reduces the amount of kind of tree, if
you will, The amount of defenses and sugars and photosynthe
that the trees produce. It just reduces that every single year,
and so over time we kind of start to see
(06:31):
this slow decline which then makes these trees vulnerable to
be you know, polished off by either a bark, beetle
or something else. So certainly, when you're driving across the
landscape and you're looking across the forest, when you see
that kind of rust color or brown tinge that you
might see on the needles, that's because of these caterpillars
that have partially feed on them. The needle turns red
(06:54):
and the tree just actually looks quite poor from afar.
So it certainly is a seventy five percent of all
of the disturbance that we see in Colorado. We're at
two hundred and seventeen thousand acres statewide. There's almost no
forest that isn't affected to this point. But you know,
kind of to put it into perspective, you lump up
(07:15):
all the bark beetles and the budworms and all the
things that we see. You know, on any one given year,
we're not really seeing more than about one percent of
our forest is affected. It's really more the long term
window that we really start to kind of start to see, Okay,
here's the trends, and here's why. When we drive up
and go skiing, we see miles and miles of you know,
(07:36):
dead trees, and so you know, we try to temper
it with like, hey, listen, in one year it's not
the end of the world. It's really more, you know,
we need to look at this thing over a larger scale.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
All right, last quick question for those folks who live
as I used to but don't now in an area
that has plenty of evergreen trees around.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I used to live up near up near Netherlands. Right,
so on forty acres, we had lots of trees. Do
you recommend Do you think it's a good use of
an individual's time and money to try to protect individual
trees or is that just a spit in the ocean.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, it kind of depends, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I mean, it's just like your stock portfolio, right, it's like, well,
what's your level of risk and are you okay losing
a few trees here or there? And that decision is
personal is personal for everyone. But really the deciding factor
is we have tools like these little semiochemicals that help
disrupt the communication, and we have other tools in the
toolbox to say, gosh, maybe this is the right plan
(08:39):
to head down, you know, to kind of also be
good stewards of the forest and think about my neighbors
as well, right, think about fire risk and think about
you know, view sheds and think about are we going
to have forest for forest for my grandkids. So I
do think that it's a worthy endeavor, and I do
think that right now, this is when these semio chemicals
and kind of treatments are better, is when the bark
(09:01):
beetles are still at fairly low levels. Granted, in some
parts of the state there's still little pockets that are
a little bit more than others. But you know, as
we're starting to see these bark beetles build up populations
along the front range, I really do think that getting
out looking at your trees and saying, man, I would
be devastated if these, you know, forty fifty eighty trees
(09:21):
were to die. It would completely change my property and
maybe change my property values and how we use this property.
That is where I would say, man, let's put a
plan together and let's let's protect these trees into perpetuity.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Dan West is the forest entomologist for the Colorado State
Forest Service.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
That's a great conversation, Dan, Thank you for making time
for us, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Glad to do it.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
We'll have you back, all right, folks, We're gonna take
a quick break.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Think about that. We'll be right back on Koa
So I'm gonna jump right into it here.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I rarely start the show with an interview, but I'm
going to.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Today.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Around my neighborhood, we've noticed a few dead pine trees.
I use the pine the term pine generically. I don't
know if it's a pine or a spruce or whatever,
but something in that category, and don't know what's going
on with that. And then, sort of coincidentally, I saw
a piece in the Colorado Sun. Colorado's tree eating pine
beetles are surging back after a prolonged dry spell. I'm
(00:31):
also aware, though, that there's another bug around that could
be causing some serious problems. So joining us to help
us understand what is or might be going on with
our forests and trees that aren't in forests but elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Dan West.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Dan is the forest entomologist, meaning the bug guy for
the Colorado State Forest Service. Hey Dan, thanks for making
time for us this morning.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hey, good morning, pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
So let's start with pine beetles.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
So it seems to me like they were the only
thing to talk about for a few years, and then
nobody talked about them for a few years. So did
it feel that way to you? And if so, why
did that happen and is it changing again?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Well, mountain pine beetle is an interesting one. We did
see about eighty percent of our pine forest in the
state were affected, give or take, from about nineteen ninety
six to two thoy and fourteen. And the reason for
that is that decline is because you'll recall right twenty
thirteen is when we had the Biblical rains or the
torrential rain one hundred year rain event that occurred along
(01:35):
the Front Range, and that really allowed trees to suck
up as much water as they possibly could, turn that
water into resin, and be able to defend themselves against
mountain pine beetle. Now, what we've seen, maybe ten years later,
just about eleven years later, is that mountain pine beetle
is resurging again. Has been for a number of years
pretty much. We've seen increases since twenty twenty all the
(01:57):
way back during the pandemic and now particularly along the
Front Range. I saw a pretty market jump almost twice
as many infested trees were recorded from our aerial survey
from twenty twenty three through twenty twenty four, so starting
to be slightly more alarming along the Front range where
(02:17):
for about ten years they really saw kind of a
hiatus from attack from these bark beetles.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So the short answer there is what are weather means
the trees are able to defend themselves against the beatles better?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Well, yeah, tree take water and turn it into resin,
and then they are able to defend against these bark
beetles through attacking them. The challenge is is that in
Colorado we've had above average temperatures for the last thirty
one years, so that makes it hard for a tree
to try to retain as much water as they possibly can.
And then you throw on top of that, four out
(02:53):
of the last five years have been below or well
below average precipitation. One of those years in twenty twenty one,
actually five inches below one hundred year average. So it's
really hard for trees to basically defend themselves when it's
much warmer and they're not getting as much water as
they certainly need. So these bark beetles are just able
to then build up their populations relatively quickly. You'll recall
(03:15):
kind of middle school math where we were learning about
exponential curves. That's how these bark beetles build up their population.
Super quick, and in these years where trees just don't
quite have enough defenses, the bark beetles are able to
continue to build up their populations and continue to attack
otherwise healthy trees.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Obviously, the geographical scale of this problem may be the
answer to the question I'm going to ask you now,
but have there been any kind of advances in ways
that humans can try to prevent the spread of bark
beetle on a scale that matters, right, like separate from
you know, just around my house or something, And I
don't even know if that's possible.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, we do have some tools now that there has
been some fertile ground in research that has we figured
out how bark beetles communicate with one another, and we've
figured out a way to disrupt that communication. The challenge
is is that it's not it has to be done
every single year, and it's easily applied. They're made in
these little bubbles that you can staple onto your trees,
(04:17):
and it's kind of like the no vacancy sign, right.
It tells incoming beetles that, oh, hey, there's no food
for my babies in this tree, and they continue to
fly through the forest. So there is some challenges with that, right,
it pushes it to your neighbor's yard or to the
next track of land, and if you know we're not
doing that on a widespread scale, that becomes a challenge.
(04:38):
But you know, we still always have the traditional you know,
mechanical removals and trying to leave the residual trees make
them the most vigorous, but sometimes that's not feasible, you know,
in your neighborhood, or if you're trying to use trees
as kind of a screen so that you can get
some privacy, there's there's you know, there's some considerations there.
But and then of course the ugly side of all
(04:59):
of the entomology is we can still use chemical sprays
to prevent attack from trees, but that also isn't a
silver bullet because we can't use that stuff around water.
It's a nerve talks and is toxic to humans as well.
So you know, there's kind of challenges for everything, and
really that's not the one size fits all. It kind
of takes a forester to get in there and say, oh, hey,
(05:20):
here's kind of the suite of tools that we would
use to make this slightly better.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Okay, let's move on from the pine needle and talk
about the budworm.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
What exactly is this thing? How concerning is it?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, it's a small moth in the adult form. It's
a little caterpillar that chews on the needles of both
spruce and Douglas fir. So the devils in the details,
you got to figure out which tree species you've got.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
It's our most.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Widespread forest pest in Colorado and has been for a
number of years. The total amount of acres that we've
seen in Colorado is continuing to inch up every every year,
and we haven't seen levels that we've seen in twenty
twenty four for seven years prior. So certainly impactful. But
(06:10):
the interesting thing about this little caterpillar or moth if
you will, is that it doesn't outright kill a tree.
It just reduces the amount of kind of tree, if
you will, The amount of defenses and sugars and photosynthe
that the trees produce. It just reduces that every single year,
and so over time we kind of start to see
(06:31):
this slow decline which then makes these trees vulnerable to
be you know, polished off by either a bark, beetle
or something else. So certainly, when you're driving across the
landscape and you're looking across the forest, when you see
that kind of rust color or brown tinge that you
might see on the needles, that's because of these caterpillars
that have partially feed on them. The needle turns red
(06:54):
and the tree just actually looks quite poor from afar.
So it certainly is a seventy five percent of all
of the disturbance that we see in Colorado. We're at
two hundred and seventeen thousand acres statewide. There's almost no
forest that isn't affected to this point. But you know,
kind of to put it into perspective, you lump up
(07:15):
all the bark beetles and the budworms and all the
things that we see. You know, on any one given year,
we're not really seeing more than about one percent of
our forest is affected. It's really more the long term
window that we really start to kind of start to see, Okay,
here's the trends, and here's why. When we drive up
and go skiing, we see miles and miles of you know,
(07:36):
dead trees, and so you know, we try to temper
it with like, hey, listen, in one year it's not
the end of the world. It's really more, you know,
we need to look at this thing over a larger scale.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
All right, last quick question for those folks who live
as I used to but don't now in an area
that has plenty of evergreen trees around.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I used to live up near up near Netherlands. Right,
so on forty acres, we had lots of trees. Do
you recommend Do you think it's a good use of
an individual's time and money to try to protect individual
trees or is that just a spit in the ocean.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, it kind of depends, you know.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I mean, it's just like your stock portfolio, right, it's like, well,
what's your level of risk and are you okay losing
a few trees here or there? And that decision is
personal is personal for everyone. But really the deciding factor
is we have tools like these little semiochemicals that help
disrupt the communication, and we have other tools in the
toolbox to say, gosh, maybe this is the right plan
(08:39):
to head down, you know, to kind of also be
good stewards of the forest and think about my neighbors
as well, right, think about fire risk and think about
you know, view sheds and think about are we going
to have forest for forest for my grandkids. So I
do think that it's a worthy endeavor, and I do
think that right now, this is when these semio chemicals
and kind of treatments are better, is when the bark
(09:01):
beetles are still at fairly low levels. Granted, in some
parts of the state there's still little pockets that are
a little bit more than others. But you know, as
we're starting to see these bark beetles build up populations
along the front range, I really do think that getting
out looking at your trees and saying, man, I would
be devastated if these, you know, forty fifty eighty trees
(09:21):
were to die. It would completely change my property and
maybe change my property values and how we use this property.
That is where I would say, man, let's put a
plan together and let's let's protect these trees into perpetuity.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Dan West is the forest entomologist for the Colorado State
Forest Service.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
That's a great conversation, Dan, Thank you for making time
for us, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Glad to do it.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
We'll have you back, all right, folks, We're gonna take
a quick break.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Think about that. We'll be right back on Koa
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