Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Going right away here, So I would I would rarely
ask a journalist, and especially a journalist who really functions
primarily as a reporter, about their opinion on a piece
of legislation, not least because reporters generally would say, that's
not my job to give you an opinion on a
piece of legislation. But every once in a while something
(00:20):
comes around out of the state legislature that directly affects journalists.
And I was alerted to one of these, Senate Bill
seventy seven, to be precise, by Kyle Clark of nine News,
who sent me a message saying, Ross, have you seen
this thing?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Senate Bill seventy seven?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
And I thought it would be great to have Kyle
on to talk about it. I did go research the bill.
I hate it as much as Kyle does. But Kyle
will explain, Hey, Kyle, I haven't ended you on the
show in some time.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's good to have you back.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Great to be back, Ross.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So what does this bill purport to do? What does
it do? Why do you object?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
The bill is trying to fix a real problem, which
is that records custodians and government agencies around Colorado are
inundated with a ton of public records requests and they
say that they can't keep up with them. Some of them,
they say, are you just gadfly types who are trying
to annoy them or trying.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
To tie up their time.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So that's the very real problem. This seeks to essentially
create three lanes for access to public records in Colorado.
Journalists would stay in the current lane, which would become
the fast lane, and if a government records custodian determined
that you are in it for financial gain, they could
put you in a second slower lane. And if they
determine that you are just a lowly peasants a member
(01:40):
of the public, then they could put you in a
third slower lane where they don't have to respond to
your record's request as quickly.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
So, in short, it's giving journalists a leg up on
speed with which you would get open records requests responses
from the government.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
But so, first of all, that's wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
We're all we should all be able to get the
information in the same way. And as Kyle said, there
is a problem here, and if there's a problem here,
you can do some things to try to ameliorate the
problem a little bit. And actually the bill does try
to do some of those things, but it has this
poison pill, so it creates these categories, so journalists versus
everybody else.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
And then, as Kyle said it, it will.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Be up to the judgment and I'm putting that in
air quotes of the bureaucrat whoever is supposed to respond
to this record request, to decide whether the journalist making
the request is making it with the right motivation. And
if the bureaucrat decides they're probably gonna go make some
(02:42):
money from this, then they'll say we're gonna We're gonna wait.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
A while, and it's just it's just not right now.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
You Kyle, you saw I think my tweet yesterday, and
I think the example I gave might apply a little
better to you and your organization then than to me.
And in that aspect, where say you are working on
a story that you think is a very big news
story and you want to get some open record requests
because you think there could be some blockbuster stuff in
(03:10):
there that the Colorado's really need to know about. And
if you get that information and if the story turns
out to be as big as you think, you're gonna
mention it on Twitter you're gonna put it on the website.
You nine news might get more clicks and more views,
and you might make and I don't mean you personally,
the company might make an extra one hundred bucks or
thousand bucks from however, monetizing the Internet works, and now
(03:33):
some bureaucrat is going to decide whether you want that
information to make money versus for news.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
The entire process is frous. The idea of allowing hundreds
of records custodians around the state to make individual decisions
about one who qualifies as a journalist to whether they
have a financial interest, it's just it's dangerous. We don't
want this. We don't want individual government officials having the
ability to punish or reward citizens or journalists that they
(04:04):
like or don't like. So one records custodian could say, well,
I think, you know, I think this journalist is a righty,
so I'm going to deny them the fast lane on this,
or I don't like lefties, so I'm going to deny
them that. We don't want to get into that kind
of thing. And it's just as a journalist, I don't
want special privileges when it comes to public records. I
don't want to be in a fast lane.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
They're public records.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I have no more of a right to a public
record than any citizen. We should all be in the
same lane when it comes to getting public records.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I couldn't agree more and I will just you know,
I think this is pretty obvious to listeners. But I mean,
I'm unaffiliated libertarian, but a lot of people think of
me as slightly right leaning.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Kyle is not as open.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And describing his own politics, but I think a lot
of people think of him as maybe.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Slightly left leaning.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Kyle, you don't have to agree or disagree with any
of that, but we are both here exhorting politicians of
all stripes who voted for this bill the first time around,
to not go along with any effort to.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Override the governor's veto.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I should have mentioned earlier if I didn't, that this
bill did pass the legislature.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Governor Polus vetoed it.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Said a bunch of things that are correct about why
he vetoed it, stuff that Kyle and I have just
talked about, and I don't want to I mean, Kyle,
do you want to say I don't want to fee
worgin about do you want to say anything yourself to
legislators who might be listening.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I don't, and Rossie, you know, as I wrestled with
whether it was even my role to say anything about this,
because while I do commentaries on my weeknight program Next,
they tend to focus on widely shared community values like
honesty and transparency. We don't get into advocacy for political causes,
or for policies, or for political candidate of parties. I
(05:52):
don't tell you vote for this guy, vote against this woman,
or support this legislative initiative. But this feels like it
is squarely in my life as a journalist to say
they don't want special privileges from the government, because I'll
tell you what, as soon as a journalist starts getting
special privileges from the government, they owe the government something.
They are under influence from the government, and they might
(06:15):
try to preserve their access by not offending the government.
I don't want that want. I don't want any government
fingerprints on the media, whether it's in regards to who
gets public records or in terms of funding for media.
That's the whole other separate conversation that we can have.
I don't want entanglements with government. I want a whole
government accountable.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I will also note to listeners the bill passed in
a bipartisan way, and I'm sure and Kyle and I
both believe that the bill is well intended, probably was
well intended. And as Kyle said to start this conversation,
there is a legitimate issue that needs to be solved
or at least ameliorated, of helping government deal with the
(06:58):
very large number of open records requests coming in. But
this bill just has this poison pill, these couple of
poison pills that make it unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Kyle.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Before I let you go, I just wanted to mention
something to you. I spoke with a friend of mine
in the State Senate who will remain nameless, who voted
yes on the bill, who will not vote to override.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
The veto, And I asked him, do you know if other.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Republicans who voted for the bill are with you on
not supporting.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Overriding the veto? And he said yes.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So I don't know, you know, if that's enough, But
it does seem like there's a little bit of movement
in the direction that we would prefer.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Last night kept it is set for a vote tomorrow
on this override. As you pointed out, it passed with
wide majorities. It passed with limited bipartisan support. Right, it
was mostly the Democrats in the majority, minus a few
of them two of them actually, and with some Republican support,
but not overwhelming Republican support.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Here's the dealers is.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
First, journalists go right.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
We're just one stakeholder in this process. And I know
that the people who put this bill together heard from
journalists on it, and journalists are not of one mind
in Colorado on this bill. Some journalists are supportive of it,
some journalists are silent on it. And I just thought,
when I saw this thing racing to the finish line,
that I couldn't live with myself if I didn't say,
hold on. This is a really, really bad idea for
(08:24):
a lot of people. And I'm encouraged by the fact
that we have folks all over the political spectrum as
well as journalists, talking about the danger of this. You've
spoken out on it on the left, The Colorado Times
Recorder has spoken out on it. On the right, the
independences to this spoken on it. I've talked about it
on my program. I just asked legislators, look at this
again and realize the can of worms that you could
(08:45):
open with this.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yes, Legislators, please, I'll just say I can. Kyle's not
going to go quite as far as I will. Legislators,
please vote no on any effort to override the governor's
veto of Senate Bill seventy seven. Kyle Clark anchors nine
News at nine pm and ten pm, and is the
anchor and managing editor of Next with Kyle Clark at
(09:07):
six pm weeknights. Kyle, thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Thanks for spending some time with us.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Appreciate the opportunity, Appreciate your voice.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Ros Thanks all right,
Going right away here, So I would I would rarely
ask a journalist, and especially a journalist who really functions
primarily as a reporter, about their opinion on a piece
of legislation, not least because reporters generally would say, that's
not my job to give you an opinion on a
piece of legislation. But every once in a while something
(00:20):
comes around out of the state legislature that directly affects journalists.
And I was alerted to one of these, Senate Bill
seventy seven, to be precise, by Kyle Clark of nine News,
who sent me a message saying, Ross, have you seen
this thing?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Senate Bill seventy seven?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
And I thought it would be great to have Kyle
on to talk about it. I did go research the bill.
I hate it as much as Kyle does. But Kyle
will explain, Hey, Kyle, I haven't ended you on the
show in some time.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's good to have you back.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Great to be back, Ross.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So what does this bill purport to do? What does
it do? Why do you object?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
The bill is trying to fix a real problem, which
is that records custodians and government agencies around Colorado are
inundated with a ton of public records requests and they
say that they can't keep up with them. Some of them,
they say, are you just gadfly types who are trying
to annoy them or trying.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
To tie up their time.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So that's the very real problem. This seeks to essentially
create three lanes for access to public records in Colorado.
Journalists would stay in the current lane, which would become
the fast lane, and if a government records custodian determined
that you are in it for financial gain, they could
put you in a second slower lane. And if they
determine that you are just a lowly peasants a member
(01:40):
of the public, then they could put you in a
third slower lane where they don't have to respond to
your record's request as quickly.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
So, in short, it's giving journalists a leg up on
speed with which you would get open records requests responses
from the government.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
But so, first of all, that's wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
We're all we should all be able to get the
information in the same way. And as Kyle said, there
is a problem here, and if there's a problem here,
you can do some things to try to ameliorate the
problem a little bit. And actually the bill does try
to do some of those things, but it has this
poison pill, so it creates these categories, so journalists versus
everybody else.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
And then, as Kyle said it, it will.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Be up to the judgment and I'm putting that in
air quotes of the bureaucrat whoever is supposed to respond
to this record request, to decide whether the journalist making
the request is making it with the right motivation. And
if the bureaucrat decides they're probably gonna go make some
(02:42):
money from this, then they'll say we're gonna We're gonna wait.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
A while, and it's just it's just not right now.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
You Kyle, you saw I think my tweet yesterday, and
I think the example I gave might apply a little
better to you and your organization then than to me.
And in that aspect, where say you are working on
a story that you think is a very big news
story and you want to get some open record requests
because you think there could be some blockbuster stuff in
(03:10):
there that the Colorado's really need to know about. And
if you get that information and if the story turns
out to be as big as you think, you're gonna
mention it on Twitter you're gonna put it on the website.
You nine news might get more clicks and more views,
and you might make and I don't mean you personally,
the company might make an extra one hundred bucks or
thousand bucks from however, monetizing the Internet works, and now
(03:33):
some bureaucrat is going to decide whether you want that
information to make money versus for news.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
The entire process is frous. The idea of allowing hundreds
of records custodians around the state to make individual decisions
about one who qualifies as a journalist to whether they
have a financial interest, it's just it's dangerous. We don't
want this. We don't want individual government officials having the
ability to punish or reward citizens or journalists that they
(04:04):
like or don't like. So one records custodian could say, well,
I think, you know, I think this journalist is a righty,
so I'm going to deny them the fast lane on this,
or I don't like lefties, so I'm going to deny
them that. We don't want to get into that kind
of thing. And it's just as a journalist, I don't
want special privileges when it comes to public records. I
don't want to be in a fast lane.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
They're public records.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I have no more of a right to a public
record than any citizen. We should all be in the
same lane when it comes to getting public records.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I couldn't agree more and I will just you know,
I think this is pretty obvious to listeners. But I mean,
I'm unaffiliated libertarian, but a lot of people think of
me as slightly right leaning.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Kyle is not as open.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And describing his own politics, but I think a lot
of people think of him as maybe.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Slightly left leaning.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Kyle, you don't have to agree or disagree with any
of that, but we are both here exhorting politicians of
all stripes who voted for this bill the first time around,
to not go along with any effort to.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Override the governor's veto.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I should have mentioned earlier if I didn't, that this
bill did pass the legislature.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Governor Polus vetoed it.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Said a bunch of things that are correct about why
he vetoed it, stuff that Kyle and I have just
talked about, and I don't want to I mean, Kyle,
do you want to say I don't want to fee
worgin about do you want to say anything yourself to
legislators who might be listening.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I don't, and Rossie, you know, as I wrestled with
whether it was even my role to say anything about this,
because while I do commentaries on my weeknight program Next,
they tend to focus on widely shared community values like
honesty and transparency. We don't get into advocacy for political causes,
or for policies, or for political candidate of parties. I
(05:52):
don't tell you vote for this guy, vote against this woman,
or support this legislative initiative. But this feels like it
is squarely in my life as a journalist to say
they don't want special privileges from the government, because I'll
tell you what, as soon as a journalist starts getting
special privileges from the government, they owe the government something.
They are under influence from the government, and they might
(06:15):
try to preserve their access by not offending the government.
I don't want that want. I don't want any government
fingerprints on the media, whether it's in regards to who
gets public records or in terms of funding for media.
That's the whole other separate conversation that we can have.
I don't want entanglements with government. I want a whole
government accountable.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I will also note to listeners the bill passed in
a bipartisan way, and I'm sure and Kyle and I
both believe that the bill is well intended, probably was
well intended. And as Kyle said to start this conversation,
there is a legitimate issue that needs to be solved
or at least ameliorated, of helping government deal with the
(06:58):
very large number of open records requests coming in. But
this bill just has this poison pill, these couple of
poison pills that make it unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Kyle.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Before I let you go, I just wanted to mention
something to you. I spoke with a friend of mine
in the State Senate who will remain nameless, who voted
yes on the bill, who will not vote to override.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
The veto, And I asked him, do you know if other.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Republicans who voted for the bill are with you on
not supporting.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Overriding the veto? And he said yes.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So I don't know, you know, if that's enough, But
it does seem like there's a little bit of movement
in the direction that we would prefer.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Last night kept it is set for a vote tomorrow
on this override. As you pointed out, it passed with
wide majorities. It passed with limited bipartisan support. Right, it
was mostly the Democrats in the majority, minus a few
of them two of them actually, and with some Republican support,
but not overwhelming Republican support.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Here's the dealers is.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
First, journalists go right.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
We're just one stakeholder in this process. And I know
that the people who put this bill together heard from
journalists on it, and journalists are not of one mind
in Colorado on this bill. Some journalists are supportive of it,
some journalists are silent on it. And I just thought,
when I saw this thing racing to the finish line,
that I couldn't live with myself if I didn't say,
hold on. This is a really, really bad idea for
(08:24):
a lot of people. And I'm encouraged by the fact
that we have folks all over the political spectrum as
well as journalists, talking about the danger of this. You've
spoken out on it on the left, The Colorado Times
Recorder has spoken out on it. On the right, the
independences to this spoken on it. I've talked about it
on my program. I just asked legislators, look at this
again and realize the can of worms that you could
(08:45):
open with this.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yes, Legislators, please, I'll just say I can. Kyle's not
going to go quite as far as I will. Legislators,
please vote no on any effort to override the governor's
veto of Senate Bill seventy seven. Kyle Clark anchors nine
News at nine pm and ten pm, and is the
anchor and managing editor of Next with Kyle Clark at
(09:07):
six pm weeknights. Kyle, thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Thanks for spending some time with us.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Appreciate the opportunity, Appreciate your voice.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Ros Thanks all right,
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
Popular Podcasts
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!