Maternal Mental Health Expert Kate Kripke: Gets Real about Raising Kids and Reflecting On Ourselves

Man this episode hits DEEP. This one is for all my mamas out there! In this insightful conversation, maternal mental health expert, Kate Kripke delves into how raising children offers us a unique opportunity to examine our own emotions and behaviors. She shares powerful insights on how a mother’s sense of self directly impacts how she connects with her child. Discover the importance of curiosity, compassion, and choice in parenting. Learn how to embrace your child’s discomfort without anxiety, and instead, offer them love and support without rushing to fix their feelings. Kate emphasizes the importance of letting children lead their own solutions, fostering resilience, and moving through tough moments with confidence.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
And carry line. She's a queen of talking, and so
you know she's getting really not afraid to feel the episode,
and so just let it flow. No one can do

(00:22):
we quiet, cary Line, it's time for care alone.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Here we are hate, Kristy, We're here. We are hearing
our headphones on. We are here to discuss motherhood. You
are such a shining light motherhood. And we were briefly discussing.
I met you three years ago when I was in
the absolute throws of my emotional just insanity, because I

(00:55):
had had Sonny she was two years old. I had
wanted her more than anything in the entire and I
had had several miscarriages before her, and then when I
had her, it was just the most incredible experience of
my life. It was like an answered prayer. I was
so in love and obsessed with her.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
I was just an emotional wreck about it, Like everything
was emotional. I didn't know who I was anymore. I
didn't know how to handle my feelings. I didn't know
how to be like I was so worried about doing
something wrong and like messing her up. You have this
huge responsibility of being a mother, and so I joined
a life coach. Her name is Kathy Heller, and she

(01:36):
is a woman who offers tons of like just great
resources for women and is very empowering. And you were
also in one of her courses and we met and
we went and stayed at the bel Air Hotel in
La It was the first time I had left sonny
Is since she was born. I went to this fancy,
high flute hotel and went to retreat with all these

(01:58):
women in Kathy's course, and you were there, and you
were like a guiding light to me because I was
losing my shit and I didn't know. I just didn't know.
You just need guides when you're a mom, You just
need people to guide you. And I was like coming
into like figuring out my own worth. And I was

(02:18):
really wanting to find that because now I was a
mother to Sonny and I didn't want my feelings that
I had always struggled with of not having self worth
to like play into my motherhood. And I wanted to
find out who I was and be strong in that
so I could be a strong example. And there you
were hate and you just would sit with me at
lunch and you would talk to me and you would

(02:38):
let me spill my guts out, and you were the
most calming force in the world. And you're this beautiful vision.
I mean, you're like a supermodel, like Gizelle Buncheon, and
you're up there. We were like doing these dances in
this course, and Kate's up there just like rocking it
in her like awesome jeans and like bell bottom flares,
and you're so cute, and you have these two teenage daughters,

(02:59):
and you basically were like, it's going to be okay,
You're going to be great. I'm going to help you.
We're going to all be fine. And you just offer
so many resources and so much calming energy, and you
just know what women, what moms need to hear, and
what we need to learn so we can become the
best version of ourselves to be a great mom. Because

(03:21):
it's an.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Overwhelming journey, it is, and I feel like if I
left right now, my life would be better because of
that instruction. Yes, that was my goal. That was amazing, Caroline.
It is. It's crazy. Motherhood can feel crazy. And you know,
you and I were talking about this before we started recording,

(03:43):
but I do think that there is a very common
phenomenon that happens for so many of us who are
you know, let's call us high achievers, high performing, success
driven high achievers, and and it's it's like clockwork. I mean,
I see this happen over and over and over or
where we then become moms and motherhood is just woven

(04:06):
into the fabric of motherhood is unpredictability and uncertainty and
chaos and lots of feeling, lots of emotions. Many of
us who are really good at things outside of us
part of what may have motivated us to achieve great
things is, you know, like I don't want to slow
down because if I stop moving, I'm going to feel

(04:26):
something and I'm not sure how to feel that thing,
So I'm just going to keep moving. And that motivation
helps us do these amazing things on the planet and
in our life. But those same skills don't work in motherhood.
So the problem solving, the planning ahead, the being uber organized,
the controlling our environment, all of that stuff that has

(04:46):
helped us be excellent in our lives creates anxiety in motherhood.
It not only does it not work, it makes us
feel like we're.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Failing because you have to learn how to surrender in motherhood.
But yeah, you're saying you're doing all these things to
be successful out there in the world. You're trying your
hardest to find your purpose and you know, make your
life matter and leave your mark and make money and
be successful. Like you said, you have all these systems
in place that create an illusion of control, and then

(05:18):
here comes.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
The kid, Here comes the kid, and there's very little
that's within our control. I mean, we do actually have
there is more in our control than we think. But
usually many of us are trying to control the things
outside of us, like everything in our environment. We're trying
to control our environments, and that will not work. In motherhood,
we will we will fail every time, which will lead

(05:42):
many of us to feel like failures. And I mean that.
I remember that lunch we had Carolina. It was actually
so sweet.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
I said, brawling my eyes up.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
I think we gravitated towards each other. To be fair,
I think.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
There was some of you because you were the calming
presence and I was the emotional hot mess over here,
like literally spiraling.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Well.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Well, one of the things I remember talking to about lunch,
and you just said it again now, is that this
like if we have inside of us, these like fear
based limiting beliefs like I'm not enough, or I'm not okay,
or what if there's something wrong with me, which many
of us have, and they're often buried. They're so unconscious

(06:23):
and hidden that we don't even realize they're in there.
If we have those feelings, when we become moms, those
feelings are gonna come to the surface, and they're going
to be like those thoughts and beliefs on steroids, which
are then going to lead us to emotions on steroids,
so many emotions that we we've never been taught how
to feel. So many of us have never been taught

(06:45):
how to feel emotions and still trust that we're okay.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
And I didn't want to subconsciously just create habits to
fix what I don't want to feel and then have
that effects, Sonny. That's why I join that course with
Kathy because I was literally like I cannot carry my
unhealed self, and my unhealed like either big traumas or

(07:09):
little traumas. You know, everyone has trauma's big tea little
ta trauma. Whatever my traumas are in my life, they've
created my image of myself that has made me doubt
my self worth or whatever. I cannot just skate over
it anymore. I have to get to the root cause
of it, so I don't put this on her and
then she carries my burdens and not that I'm not
going to mess her up, because We're all going to

(07:30):
mess our kids up. And I'm sure you have plenty
to like say about that too, but it's like I
knew I didn't want to mess her up with stuff
I haven't addressed, and it's like, how do you even
know what to dress?

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Well? I made it such a great point, and quite frankly, Caroline,
if only every mom was asking that question right and again,
it's like the question that I invite folks to ask
all the time is what part might I be playing
in the things that are at work for me? It's
not how is this my fault? And where am I

(08:02):
to blame? Like, please don't ask yourself that question. That
is not a helpful question. That's like a critical question
that's going to throw you into a shame spiral. But
we all bring our stuff to motherhood. We bring We
can't look at a baby and hold our baby for
the first time and say I am this baby's mom
without all of old stuff that had led us to

(08:23):
have the self identity that we have today come to
the table. We can't separate the two. I don't think
enough women ask themselves that very question. It's called reflective parenting,
and it's a like those of us in the field
of maternal child mental health, like reflective parenting is the
gold standard. All that means is I'm asking myself, how

(08:46):
is what I'm thinking and feeling and how I'm acting
impacting my child? That's the question, right, because we're impacting
our kiddos all the time, whether we mean to or not,
we are. So yeah, it's a brilliant question not to mention.
And this is sort of the the real kicker. How

(09:07):
I feel about myself, even if it's buried, will be
how I feel about my child.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa. Okay, wait say that again. Yeah,
that feels very big.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
It's it's called projection, and it is an imperative thing
to focus on.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
So how I feel about my self is how I
will feel about my child. I'm about to burst into tears,
and that is literally.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
What I was.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
I had felt so insecure and unworthy of myself and
I guess I subconsciously knew that, and I did not
want to put that on sunny because maybe I knew
that if I couldn't love myself and be so proud
of who I am and I have done the work
to be like looking at myself in the mere and
be like, you're a freaking badass, and I love you
despite all of you, I love you, and like I'm

(10:00):
proud of you. If I couldn't say that to myself,
how could I be that example to hurt? That's right,
So break that down. I'm dying right now, Kate.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
And then it goes one step farther, because what we
believe to be true about our children is what they
will believe to be true about themselves.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Okay, I need you to explain all that.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
That is so big, So are our deepest beliefs about ourselves. Right,
I am not enough, I'm not okay, I'm not worthy,
I'm not lovable, or I am enough, I am okay,
I am worthy, I am lovable. We're gonna many of

(10:39):
us fall in the first category without realizing it, right.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
And it's just because we haven't. We've been conditioned by
life correct and by all these people who we've been
born into, all the traumas you've had, if you haven't
taken the time did you reflective to look reflective at
yourself like you're saying, you just believe that you are
what's happened to you in your circumstances, and then that
creates this image that you're not enough, create all these
these ways to overcompensate and not deal with the pain

(11:04):
and the trauma, and a lot of it's success driven
or not thinking you're enough. And it's yes, because you've
really never examined why you feel the way you feel
and get to the root of who you are, which
is outside of all the things that have happened to you. Sorry,
I know.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
You've got it. It's perfect, you said it beautifully. Those
deep beliefs are informed by well we'll talk about the
connection again in a moment, but our parents. And it
doesn't mean necessarily that they were horrible parents. I mean,
there are some parents, you know, some people have capital
T trauma, but many people don't. There was no mal intent,
but we're taught that from our parents, from culture, from society,

(11:38):
from our teachers, from lots of things. Right, Those deep beliefs,
which are often very unconscious form. The kind of thoughts
we have on a regular basis. Our thinking leads to
how we feel emotionally. Our emotions motivate behavior, and those behaviors,
those actions, though choices, lead to what our life looks like. Right,
if I believe I am not enough, I am going

(12:01):
to It's a fear based belief. I'm scared I'm not enough,
I am going to write. Kathy talks about this all
the time. She talked about this in our workshop life
Is I am a projector I'm going to see out
here what I feel in here? If I believe I'm
not okay, that was mine. Mine was I'm not okay?
What I mean by that, like like like inherently not okay,

(12:28):
Like there's something wrong with me.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Like not like you're sick, but like there's something awf
with me sometimes.

Speaker 3 (12:33):
I mean when I had like hypochondria for a long
time as a kid, like like that, I'm not I
just like there's something wrong, like that feeling of like
I don't know what it is, but there's something wrong.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
With you, like physically and mentally and.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Or just more physical physical, mental, spiritual. It was like
a fear I had my whole life, that there was
something wrong with me.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
There's just something wrong with you. Was that like programming
you got?

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Well?

Speaker 3 (12:59):
I think it's because my dad thought there was something
wrong with him, and because he thought there was something
wrong with him, he projected on them to me. He
thought there was something wrong with me. He was always
because he thought there was something wrong with me. I
thought there was something wrong with me, and we do
this to our kids. Right, I have a horrible postpartum
anxiety after my now eighteen year old was when she
was a baby, right, I was so afraid that there

(13:21):
was something wrong with me that all I could see
in her was that there was something wrong with her.
She wasn't eating enough, she was not behaving the way
I thought she should. There was always I was so
scared all the time. But it wasn't actually about my daughter, Kinley.
It was about me, right, because I believe there was
something wrong with me. I believe there was something wrong

(13:42):
with her.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
And what did that do to her?

Speaker 3 (13:46):
Well? I mean, you know, luckily I got some support
real dan quick, so it didn't do too much. But
she you know, what could it have done for her?
Same thing happened for me? She could have my anxiety
could have led her to believe that there must be
something wrong with me because my mom is anxious all
the time. Right, So these beliefs get passed down from

(14:09):
generation to generation to generation. And so it's not just
in parenting. It's not just oh, I have to say
the right things to my child and I have to
do all the right things for my child. That's what
many of us high achievers think, right, It's about what
do I believe to be true about myself as I'm
mothering this child.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
So that's the bigger question, not like what is that
actually doing? But what am I believing?

Speaker 3 (14:35):
That's right?

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (14:37):
What am I believing? How do I feel about myself?

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Because that what it does come out into.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Them absolutely, whether mean whether we mean to or not.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
So when you switched from what is wrong with me
and then you thought what is wrong with my daughter?
What did you switch your mindset to when you switched
it to how did you make that shift? What did
you shift over to?

Speaker 3 (15:00):
And I stopped thinking there was something wrong with me
all the time.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
And with your daughter because you said when you were
which was born, you immediately started that process with her,
And then you caught yourself and you changed it? What
did you change?

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, So let's just be real clear here. There was
never anything wrong with.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Her, right, right, right, You're just worried hypochondriact.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
But like a couple examples, I remember flying to Aspen, Colorado,
from San Francisco, and she was like eight weeks old
or something, and I was convinced that her brain was
going to explode from the altitude. Not rational, like the
brain was just going to explode, explode like blood and
guts everywhere. That's what I imagined happening.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Right.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
That's how profound these fears can get. And you know,
lots of new moms have scary, intrusive thoughts of bad
things happening to their children that don't make a lot
of sense rationally. And yet I remember being like, you
all are crazy. If I don't worry about this, her
brain will actually explode.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Like I have to sit and worry about it, or
I'll it will explode.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
That's right, that's right. We can convince ourselves that the
anxiety and worry is important, that it's keeping everyone safe.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
It's kind of like a superstition.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Absolutely, we can call it magical thinking.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Right.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
However, beyond that, right, I saw I felt like my
daughter wasn't eating enough anyway. In my eyes, my daughter
was not okay. But if I can separate her from that,
really what was happening is that I didn't think I
was okay. And what do I mean by I am okay?
I mean like I can feel hard things and still
be okay.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Right.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
A lot of us are like all or nothing thinkers.
Either I'm happy and I'm successful and I'm feeling good
in my body and I'm.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Okay and I'm in control right, or I.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
Don't feel like I'm in control and I'm feeling angry
or sad or disappointed or anxious and I'm not okay.
Like our brains do this all or nothing thing. And
so what I taught myself was that when I can
actually shift those beliefs, I am not okay. And I'll
tell you where they came from in a moment if
you want to go there. It's a little psychodynamic, but

(17:11):
I'll go there. But when I've taught myself to actually
really believe that I am inherently okay, even when I'm scared,
even when I have a tummy ache, even when I
like I can feel these hard things and still be okay,
because ninety nine percent of the time there's not a
real crisis.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Right.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
Once I taught myself that, then I saw my daughters
inherently okay, ninety nine percent of the time, there's not
a real crisis. Right. She might be crying, or she
might be up in the middle of the night, or
she might have a tummy ache, or she might be
mad at me, but like, okay, I can stay steady
and have all that happen because I know that she's
still okay versus going to either.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Work case scenario her brain's going to explode in an
airplane exactly, or she's going to whatever, just the absolutely
I think I still do that. This is why we're
glad talking. And I feel like I might be transferring
on to Sunny because Sunny is always sometimes going through
like the worst case scenarios that can happen. I'm like, no, no, no,
it's okay, But I must be doing that. Still.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
It shows up in so many ways. I see this
a lot also in like those high achieving type A
moms who haven't quite figured out that they're still need
to be perfect and do things perfectly and get external
validation to feel good about themselves. If I believe I'm
not enough, I'm likely to see my child as not
enough unless they get on that sports team or they

(18:37):
get that A or they right, like, we can project
our need for perfection and here onto our kids. This
is just human nature. This is not because we're bad people,
are horrible mothers. This is just because this is how
human nature works. And so that reflective capacity you brought
up in the beginning, how might this be impacting my child?

(18:59):
Is like the biggest gift we can give our kids
to ask that question, Now, let's take you and Sonny
for a moment. Okay, maybe I mean Sunny has heard,
Like you know, our kids are also their own little people.
They come into the world with their own temperaments, right,
And it would be an interesting experiment to watch yourself. Right,
are you walking around more times than you're aware of

(19:23):
expecting worst case scenario? Because some of it's just energy, right,
and not just what we say and do.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Because I feel like I have been so intentional not
to speak those things out loud, of like worst case scenarios,
But maybe I have. But and then also I've been
so intentional to never make her feel like she needs
to have anything, be the best. I'm always like, you
are great just the way you are. I love you
just the way you are. But she is a high
achiever and she always wants to make me proud, and

(19:49):
she always wants to be the best, and she always
wants she always says, it's like, Mom, I want to
make you proud and I want to do this make
you proud. Are you proud of me? And I'm like yes,
but like, you never have to do anything to make
me proud. So then I'm in my head, I'm like,
where have I failed? Because I don't want you to
feel like you have to do stuff to make me proud.
Like I feel like I've tried so hard to get
to not put that pressure on her, but she still

(20:09):
is having it.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Well, you're not, You're not failing, So let's start there.
You're not this is not You're not ruining her. And
we can say all the right things. It doesn't really
matter what we say. Our kids are watching us, they're listening,

(20:32):
and they're feeling our energy. And if we're saying one
thing but exhibiting something else, that's actually pretty confusing for kids.
It's incongruent. Right, there's mixed messages. That does not mean
that you need to be perfect and I need to
be perfect, but it may mean that you get to
have some interesting conversations with your five year old who's

(20:53):
probably old enough to have certain kinds of conversations like this,
and you get to just check yourself. Right, what am
I modeling? Even if I'm not saying you need to
be proud of me? Am I actually meeting people outside
of me to give me positive feedback for me to
feel good about myself? Is she watching me go through
the world like that? Because if she, if that is

(21:16):
how you're going through the world like many of us
do without realizing it, then that's the model. That's the
message you're sending to her.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Okay, I don't. I don't feel like I am good.
I feel like I was before. And that's when I
went to Kathy's class and I realized from uh, Terry
who Terry Cole, who came and spoke to us, changed
my life. I realized I was a high functioning, codependent
person and I was literally trying to make the whole
world happy with me and love me because I needed

(21:57):
them to validate me. So I felt like I had
worth and once I've I realize that I have dramatically
shifted the way I view the world and the way
I view myself. And once that clicked, I was like,
oh my god, I'm trying to control every single person
I meet with the way I present myself so they
love me so I can feel validated. But I'm not
being my full, genuine self. I'm being the version that

(22:19):
I think they want so they'll be happy with me.
And once I realized that I did a massive inventory
on myself and changed so much and rewired so much,
but maybe it's still like I don't know, I don't
know how it seeps out, because Sonny's just started doing
this where she's always just kind of hard on herself
a little bit, and I'm like, why are you hard

(22:41):
on yourself? Maybe I'm hard on my Maybe it's me,
it must be me.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
Well, maybe we could move out of all our nothing
thinking for a moment. Okay, okay, because you've clearly done
so much reflective work on this, and so it's not
it's not all lost, but the question might be, and
what ways might I still be doing that in my life?
So it's not am I or am I not? It's

(23:05):
in what ways might I still be hooked into that
in my life, right, because usually humans are not all
or nothing, right. And if you had, however, many years
of your life moving through the world that way, looking
for praise from others in order to feel good about yourself,
then it's great. If you did that for thirty eight years,

(23:28):
it's not going to go away in a snap of
a finger, right, right, It's going to be an evolving
practice of learning to continue to unhook yourself from that.
And I think that's just the really interesting part when
we parent our kids. And so when Sonny says these
things to you, you could consider rather than saying, rather
than trying to convince her that she shouldn't feel that way, right,

(23:54):
get curious with her. What makes you feel that way?
Sounds like you really need and want my approval right now? Yeah,
I do. I really want to make you proud. I
get it. I get it, of course you do. And
what happens for you if you don't think I'm proud?
Like to just ask questions? Questions, questions?

Speaker 2 (24:15):
What if she says something like I don't I don't
think you won't love me or something like that dramatic,
because sometimes it is big things like that, and I'm.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Like, oh, right, so what our children need more than
anything else is the same thing that we need more
than anything else, Caroline, which is to feel seen, heard
and understood. So many moms, dare I say, most moms
knee jerk reaction would be like, that's crazy. Of course,
I love you. We can't tolerate our feeling just like

(24:43):
you did that. Oh it's like a dagger in my heart, right,
and so we don't want to feel the dagger in
our heart. So we need our children to feel something
different so we don't have to feel this. And you
ready for the drum roll. That's codependence, right.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
I immediately want to change that thought and get out of
her head and be like, no, that could never be true.
I guess my response is a little dramatic.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
Well, it's understandable, right of course, Like, first of all, yeah,
of course that's going to hurt your heart, and of course,
who don't want her to think and feel that, of course,
but the fact.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Just like I don't want her to ever feel that
she's not whole like as herself. But I guess at
five years old, like this is the beginning of learning
who you are, and like learning that you have worth
and like, but it's just the beginning of the journey.
But I'm like, I want you just to have it
from the start, so you don't have to go on
this journey I went on, and I don't want to
mess you up.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Well, it's a journey, and it's a journey that builds
resilience and self acceptance and self love. And it's not
all or nothing. Right. So our job is mother's it's
like my worst it's what makes motherhood so hard for
me and my girls are sixteen and eighteen. Now, is
that my job is not to be my children from

(26:00):
feeling pain.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
That is totally at that lunch. Yeah, I want to
get back to that lunch we had after we go
through this, because you told me that. I remember that.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yeah, our job is to hold our children's hand through
their pain. It's not to prevent them from feeling pain.
There is no life without pain, right, And so we
don't want to We don't want to lead them to
fear their fear or fear their pain, right, because it's
it's actually quite normal. So in an example like this, Caroline,
if Sonny says to you, well, if you don't tell

(26:33):
me you're proud of me, I don't think that you
love me. Right. There's one option is to be like,
oh my god, Sonny, don't think that, of course I
love you, which again most moms would answer that way,
which inadvertently sends the message your thoughts are wrong, your
feelings are wrong, there's something wrong with you because you
feel the way you feel right, which is not the

(26:55):
message you're wanting to send. And it's also a little
bit of like, you know, you mean, you know you
are unintentionally in a scenario like that, teaching her that
she needs to feel okay for you.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
To feel okay, okay right.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
What you can say in that moment is wow, Sonny,
that is that sounds really hard. That is a big feeling.
You don't think that you think that if I'm not
proud of you, that means I don't love you. Wow. Wow.

(27:34):
It's just about reflecting and once we do that and
our kids and you'll watch or we can well see
our kids nervous system settle when we reflect back to
them what we.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Hear them say, Okay, we see now I'm dying because
I'm like, it's just we've just left it there. Where's
our where's our closure?

Speaker 3 (27:50):
And the next question might be.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Where did you learn that?

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Or is is there ever anything I did that suggested
to you that I didn't love you?

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Right?

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Or Sonny, it sounds like you might need a reminder
from me about how much I love you. And at
that point, Caroline, you can even say, hey, I want
to remind you, kiddo, there is nothing you could ever
do that would stop me from loving you. You can
say all of that, but not until you first honor

(28:23):
how she's feeling. Right, that's compassion, that's validation. We can
we can validate the feeling without saying that the thought
is accurate. Right, Do it makes sense?

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yeah? That was good.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
It's a different kind of parenting. And this kind of
parenting is parenting where we don't fear uncomfortable emotions.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
So I'm still getting worked up. It still triggers me
because it made me want to cry. I have tears
in my eyes, and I get tensed up, and I
immediately want to fix it instead of just sitting with it. Okay,
you're killing me again. It's so true because, like you said,
you're not here to take the pain away. You're here
to be there and hold the space and help them

(29:09):
feel their way through it and work their way through it.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
We want to raise emotionally resilient kids, and emotionally resilient
kids can feel all the feelings and still trust it.
They're okay, right, And it sounds to me, Caroline, and
I'm just putting you on the hot seat, because here
this is great. It sounds like you do not know
how to feel hard feelings and still be okay, because

(29:34):
when you feel the hard feeling, you're jumping into problem
solving fixing mode. That was what I was saying early.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
That worst case scenario. My husband calls me toothbrush because
when we would be dating and we would get in
a fight, I would throw his toothbrush away because I
would just assume that we were never gonna we're gonna
be over, we're never gonna date again. And he's like,
please don't toothbrush this, like we just have a disagreement.
We're going to work to this. But I'm like, nope,
it's over. It's everything's done. It's finished. It's like it is,

(30:00):
oh my god, I worst case scenario everything, and I'll
create the brain exploding on the planes. I still do that.
You're right, I do that with Sunny because she's my
most precious love.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Right, and rigid thinking is fear based thinking. Any rigid
thinking is going to come from a place of fear.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
You're really all today, You're really hitting me right right
in the gut.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
Well, you and probably thousands of women, because it is
a very common place to be, especially for those of
us who have taken our fear of uncomfortable emotions, anger, sadness, anxiety, disappointment,
whatever it is, and turned that fear into motivation to

(30:48):
be excellent. Because if we slow down and actually begin
to lean into the reality of what's around us, we're
going to begin to feel uncomfortable emotions. But if we
keep moving and keep doing more, I think we can
problem solve and fix. We think we can get ahead
of them. The problem is that leads to burnout because
we cannot get ahead of emotional discomfort.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
And so I'm trying to control Sunny's emotional discomfort.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
So it sounds like you are man.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
So what did you say in the beginning that blew
my mind? How I feel about myself is how Sounny
will feel about ours?

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Are right? So ah.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Dang, So I'm not comfortable with my emotions being Yeah,
you're right, I don't want to feel those big feelings.
I feel like I can handle mine because I've done
enough work on myself that like I can like understand
them and like move through them. But like studying, I'm like,
oh my god, please don't feel that. I don't want
you to feel that because I want you to. I
don't want you to feel pain, right, dang it.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
And we can not want our children to feel pain
but still tolerate their pain, meaning trust that they can
be okay through their pain. None of us want to
see them feel pain, right.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
But I'm so actively like wanting her to avoid the pain.
I don't even want her to have it in her head.
I'm like, I don't even want you to know it exists.
I want you to have a blissful experience. Now that
I'm saying, oh that's crazy, of.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
Course, well it's just not helpful because she will be
in my office later someday when she's a grown up,
because she doesn't know how to feel discomfort. Right. So
I think that's part of it, is that we just
we and many of us I mean I don't really,
I mean I know only about from the lunch but
many of us were raised in families where it wasn't
quote unquote safe to feel discomfort, because if we felt

(32:33):
angry or sad or scared, maybe directly we would be
told to stop crying, or go up to your room,
or don't be such a baby, or in some families
there might have been abuse, and so we learned to
like not show any emotion. And for some families it
may have been just kind of similar to what you're saying.
Our parents jumped in so fast to fix it for

(32:53):
us that the message they sent was that there was
something wrong with feeling this way.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Well, you're not capable of handling it.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yes. Do you know what the definition of mental health is, Caroline?
Where's the definition of mental health? Definition of mental health
is that our internal landscape, what we feel emotionally matches
what's happening externally. Right, So if someone says they're gonna

(33:21):
call us later and they don't call us, we're going
to feel some version of pain on a spectrum, disappointment, anger, frustration, sadness. Right,
if we're in a moment of uncertainty and unpredictability, we're
going to feel anxious on a spectrum. Right, So mental
health means we're willing to feel all the feelings. It

(33:42):
also means that we have healthy coping strategies that help
us move through those more unpleasant, uncomfortable emotions to move
back to more pleasant, comfortable ones. But we have to
be willing to feel them first because they always make sense.
The feelings are never the problem. What we tell ourselves
about the feeling, it might be the problem.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
So this is such a big moment for me, Kate,
and you just bust it into my inbox today and
then today we just like you came in, we said
an email, and I was like, we're podcasting today. It
must be God or the universe of the higher power
trying to help me and help other women, because I
literally have and I'm one of these women who has
done so much work on myself. Like I literally have

(34:26):
done so much work. I believe it, and I've had
so many breakthroughs, and I do actually have so much
self worth now and I love myself. I don't feel
like I'm not worthy, but I have this. This is
it for me, and maybe a lot of other women
feel this way. I have trust, I feel like I
can handle I feel and I might be wrong about this,

(34:46):
I feel like I can handle my discomfort, although when
I am uncomfortable or upset, it does dramatically affect me,
like it goes all over me. I can process it,
and I do process it and work through it. But
like I am greatly affected by my discomfort, as a
lot of people are, and because of that, I just

(35:07):
I do not want Sunny to experience discomfort, And so
when she has it, I think I probably try to
shut it down and just like oh no, no, no no,
And that's not helpful.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
It's not helpful. I mean.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Little kids.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
I mean, this is an interesting it's somewhat heartbreaking, although
also hugely motivating. I think for any of us who
are parents, little children cannot process big emotions on their own.
Their brains are literally not developed enough to metabolize big feelings.
So what we need as young children are healthy, secure, steady,

(35:47):
emotionally capable adults to feel our feelings with us. Right,
if we don't have that person around to feel our
feelings with us, we will learn how to not feel
by jumping up into her head and thinking all the time,
or by being doers, or by dismissing or pushing it
down or distracting, and you know, for grown ups that's

(36:08):
picking up the bottle of wine or the iPhone or
the whatever it is. Right, So you know, if you
or anyone else listening was raised in a family where
kids have big feelings all the time, I mean, it
comes with the territory, right, And if if you or
anyone in listening was raised in a family where there
was at an adult to say, of course you're feeling

(36:29):
that way, not don't feel that way, but of course,
of course you're feeling that way. Tell me more, like,
let me help me understand. Right, The feelings always make
sense if we have if we're telling ourselves something. So
for instance, if study's telling herself that you're not going
to love her unless she does something to make you proud,
she's going to feel anxious. Of course of course you

(36:54):
feel that way. Is different then of course you think
that right. Of course feeling that way. When we say
that to our kids and we help hold space that
steady and stable and curious with them, the feelings will move.
But kids don't know how to do that on their own.

(37:27):
So if we didn't have that adult in our own
failing growing up, we will have gotten really good about
not feeling hard feelings because we were taught somewhere in
there that they were dangerous or bad. Right, But again,
for our brains to really be healthy, for us to
have really strong, steady relationships with people, and God knows
relationships are uncomfortable. In order for us to do hard

(37:49):
things in life, in order for us to like move
through challenges and trust that we're okay, we have to
be willing to feel the feelings. If we're not willing
to feel the feelings, we're going to avoid things. We're
going to live in ourselves. And so same for our kiddos. Right,
like Sonny's five, You know she's going to come home
from school someday and say crying because no one sat

(38:10):
with her at lunch.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
What do we do about that? Well? What do we say?
How do we say? How do we handle that interaction?

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Why don't you try?

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Okay, you'd be sunny.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
Okay, I'm coming home and I'm crying and you say,
you ask me, what's wrong?

Speaker 2 (38:26):
What's wrong? Sonny? What happened? How was your friend?

Speaker 3 (38:29):
My friends didn't sit with me at lunch today?

Speaker 2 (38:32):
They didn't? No, did that upset you?

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (38:37):
I'm so angry and I'm so sad and I hate them.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
I can see why you're upset. That would hurt my
feelings too.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Yeah, I'm crying even harder and harder. I'm so mad.
Do I sound like sunny? So?

Speaker 2 (38:53):
How did that make you feel?

Speaker 3 (38:55):
I felt so angry and I felt so left out.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
I get that. That would really make me feel like
that too.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
No, I don't know what to say next.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Well, there's not a whole lot else to say. You
could say, would you like a hug?

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Really? So what's the solution? Is there a solution? I
guess that'd be I need help? Is there a solution
or do we just let it be?

Speaker 3 (39:23):
Well? Great question. So, first of all, the feeling is
never the problem, So there's not a solution for the feeling, right,
I don't ever.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
A remedy like we don't feel like, okay, well maybe
tomorrow you go back in and you ask them to
play with you. Do we do any of that stuff?

Speaker 3 (39:37):
Or no? Well you can, but that's that's not about
the feeling. That's about the situation, right, So first, the
feeling is just saying yeah, like you did, of course
you feel that way. Of course, would you like a hug?
Can I sit next to you for a minute, like
there's and you're validating.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
So number one is we're validating how they feel without
trying to take that uncomfortableness a way. We're just acknowledging
and saying that really hurt your feelings, that's no fun.
I'm so sorry you felt that way.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
And then I offer love.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
And offer love, and you will notice that the often
via the heightened emotion, the frenetic emotion, will settle because
all we need to do when we're feeling big things
is feel seen, heard and understood. I mean that's for
you too, Isn't that all you want when you're having
a big feeling, All you want someone to say to
you is like, fuck that sucks, like that that shit,

(40:37):
and to say, of course you feel that way. That's
all we want.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, we settle without someone coming in and trying to
fix it. And this is my problem in life, not
my problem, this is my thing. I want to come
in and I want to give you the big solution
to get through the feeling and fix it instead of
just let me sit with it. Okay, so we're going
to say all that, and then what do we do?
We just sit in a feeling off her love.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
And then you can say, would you like help? Would
you like help figuring out what to do tomorrow? Do
you want to come up with a plan for lunch tomorrow?
She may say yes, she may say.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
No, Well, wight a plan be If she says let's
have a plan, like, what do we say?

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Well? I think at with a kidd oh Sunny's age,
you can have her help you come up with a solution.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
So oh, let her come up with it.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
I'm going to teach you something called the three c'sh Okay, okay, okay.
The three seas are my recipe for moving from painful,
unpleasant emotion back to more pleasant emotion. Okay, we do
this with ourselves. We can do this with our kids.
The first sea is curiosity. So let's say it's with you.

(41:51):
How am I feeling?

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Like?

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Literally, what am I feeling in my body? So Sonny
comes in and she's crying because so and so didn't
sit with her, Or she says to you, I think
that you don't love me if you don't tell me
you're proud and you feel something in your body? Right? Yes, oh, yes,
I'm sure you learn this.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Selection I feel tight I feel like I need to
give you a solution really quickly and take this feeling
away from you. Gosh, I'm so glad we're talking and
you're making me aware of this. I feel like I
need to fix it for you quickly because I don't
want you to feel this way.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
So those are thoughts, not feelings, just to be clear.
And the question is what are you feeling so tightness
in your body? Scared, anxious? Okay, that's the first sea curiosity,
What am I feeling? The second CEA is compassion? Ooh,
this is a hard feeling. So these three cs are
for me, they're for you, but you can also use
them with your kiddo. Okay, but you have to know

(42:44):
how to use them for you first.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
And then we say, of course I feel that way,
like I'm used to not knowing how to stay steady
with heart emotion. Of course, I'm feeling panicky. I don't
want my daughter to feel pain. Of course, compassion is
like I give myself I shouldn't feel exactly what I'm
feeling in this moment.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
We can't fix anything until we do those first two things,
and most of us go right to fixing.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Okay, So curiosity, where what am I feeling?

Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (43:12):
What am I feeling? Where? And like why?

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Need compassion? Okay, okay in this way.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
And then the third seast choice, how do I want
to feel? And what thoughts or baby step actions will
get me closer to that new feeling. So that's your
problem solving, but it can't come until after one and two. Okay.
So if we're talking about you and you say, oh,
my God, might just feel like I was stabbed in

(43:41):
the heart and I'm short of breath and I feel
scared because I see my daughter having these feelings. Of
course I feel that way. This is new to me.
How do I want to feel. I want to feel helpful.
I want to feel empowered. I want to feel confident
that she's okay, okay, what is one Okay.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
That it's okay, that she's having discomfort and that those
right thoughts, because I immediately am like, I don't want
you to ever not feel one hundred percent worthy, So
I'm worried that she's having a thought that makes her
feel unworthy, but really she's just sorting it out. So
I want to like be like, no, you're worthy, You're amazing.
You're smart, it's okay. But really it's like you had

(44:19):
a bad day. Your friends didn't sit with you. It
hurt your feelings. You're sad. I just didn't get invited
to someone's baby shower and I was upset about it,
you know, And I'm like, I'm forty one years old.
It's exactly like you are. Oh, it's You're allowed to
have your feelings.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
That's right. And so that third sea choice helps us
get closer to how we want to feel. In the
first scenario, before we did this work, you felt powerless,
you felt scared. Now that you just talk through all
of those new thoughts, how do you feel?

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I feel like sometimes you have these moments and they
suck and it hurts, and I'm so sorry that you're
I'm not gonna say it sucks to her, but it's
like it's it doesn't feel good, and I hate that
and I know how that feels. But I love you
so much, and do you want to hug right?

Speaker 3 (45:07):
So when you say those things to her, how do
you feel in your body?

Speaker 2 (45:12):
I feel a little more relaxed. I feel like I
don't have to give her an answer of a fix.
I don't feel like there has to be a fix. Yeah,
and I feel like we can just let it be
what it is beautiful.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
So you probably feel a little more confident, a little
more trusting, You feel connected. So we just went from powerless,
scared and helpless to confident, trusting, connect.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
And okay with the not okay feeling.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
And okay with the not okay feeling, So we move
You moved it through changing your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Right, because you're so right. I'm so worried that something
is in an imprint on her to make her not okay,
which is exactly what you were talking about how you felt,
and we're worried about It's so true. Okay, I would
like to another question about this, because sometimes she will
worry about that she thoughts because she sees all these

(46:08):
things and she experiences all these things, and she'll think,
just because she's seen it or can think it, that
she maybe did it, which is not true. But she's like, Mom,
I don't think I just stepped on or like hit
my dog Ruby, But what if I did? I'm not
sure if I did did I don't know? And then
she'll go through this debate in her head and I
how do you move through stuff like that when they

(46:29):
just start knowing, they have so many thoughts and they're
capable of doing anything, but they know they didn't do something.
But she's worried. It's back to being worried that she
didn't do the right thing because she thought she could
have done something else.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Let's roll play it.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
You'd be Sonny, Okay, maybe Sonny, yep, Mom, I think
I just hit Ruby, but I don't know if I
hit Ruby. But I think I hit Ruby, but she's okay,
So I didn't do it. I know I didn't hit her,
but I just didn't know if I hit her, because
did I I'm not sure?

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Sonny. It sounds like you're feeling really worried about her
having hurt Ruby.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Yeah, I don't know if I hit Ruby. I didn't
hit Ruby, though, because I would have known if I
hit Ruby.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
And it sounds like you don't know if you hit Ruby.
That's a hard feeling to not know if you did
something or not. That feels so confusing, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
It does. Let's not talk about it anymore.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
Okay, I'm not sure I would go any far than that,
quite frankly, in a scenario like this, But let's keep
going for a minute, I'm gonna try something different, okay.
So hey, hey, Sonny, Hey, Sonny, Hey, I want to
check in with you for a minute because it sounds
like you might need some reassurance about whether or not

(47:38):
you hurt Sonny. Am I accurate about that? Ruby? Ruby?
It sounds like you might need some reassurance because it
sounds like you're feeling really worried that you might have
hurt Ruby. Do you need some reassurance right now?

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Mm hmm?

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Okay, look over at Ruby for a minute. How's she
doing over there?

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Good?

Speaker 3 (47:58):
She look like she's okay.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
So is it possible that even if you stepped on her,
she's okay? Yes, okay, So how do you feel about that?
Does that feel okay to you to know that Ruby's
doing okay? Mm hmm okay. We can change the subject
now if you want so.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Basically just assuring her that I think so. When she
has these big thoughts of all the possibilities that could
have happened, but most of the time they did not,
is it just her trying to sort out her brain?
What is that?

Speaker 3 (48:29):
This is her being five?

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Is that what happens at five?

Speaker 3 (48:33):
It's it's such an interesting developmental stage, so a round
age two to four, give or take, because kids are
a little different, children begin to realize they're separate from
their parents. Until about age three, children literally believe they
are their parents. So that's what the terrible twos and
terrible threes are. That's what toddlerhood is is children realizing

(48:54):
that they're on their own little people with their own
feelings and their own voices, and they can do their
own things and put on their sho but no, you
put them on, right, it's chaotic. They're like, am I
part of you? Or am my own person?

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (49:05):
Right, That's what the terrible twos and threes are.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
They're so frenetic, they're separating from thinking, they're you.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Correct, correct, And we want to be secure and steady
and healthy enough adults to be able to tolerate that
coming and going right because it is emotionally uncomfortable for
them and for us. Right. So if we don't know
how to sit with emotional discomfort, we're going to like
chase them around so they don't feel anything hard, or

(49:33):
we're going to be like, peace out, I'm out of here.
I cannot toddlerate this. You're too hard for me, right,
And of course we're going to trade off with parents
and caregivers so that we don't have to only be
the ones with our But sometimes we like we'll dissociate
or we'll slam a door, and we take everything personally,
when the fact is this is child development, right, So

(49:53):
we need to be healthy enough to be able to
tolerate all of our own emotions around that and all
of our kids' emotions around that.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Right.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
But at this point, kids are also realizing how big
the world is, right, and they're beginning to realize that
there's a lot that's not in their control. There's a
lot that's in their control, but that there's a lot
that is not in their control.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
And it's becoming aware of thoughts like she's correct, and
thoughts that she has that sometimes scare her. She doesn't
know why those are in there, and then she gets
hooked on one and she doesn't know why she's thinking it, yeah,
and does that probably me?

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Right?

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (50:28):
And so then she gets freaked out that she even
had the thought to begin with.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yeah, who else does that? Right?

Speaker 2 (50:36):
All of us made So you let them know that
you don't have to believe every thought that you think.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Yeah, you have to teach yourself that first. When you
learn inside of you, Caroline, that you do not need
to believe every thought that you feel. That you think
that your feelings always make sense, but your thoughts don't
always make sense. They're not always true. When you can
learn to really trust that inside your body, you're also

(51:04):
going to trust that she's okay inside of her body
when she has all those thoughts, and when you think
that about her, she's going to realize that that's the
maternal and father. But the maternal child mental health is
so deeply interconnected. It's like vast right. Any parent coaching

(51:25):
that I do is less about how do I help
my child through her pain and more about how do
I stay steady with my own pain? Because when I
can stay study with my own pain, I'm going to
be able to stay grounded when my child is having
her pain so that I don't react as if it's
a catastrophe, because most of the time it's not. Most

(51:45):
things are not crisies. The fact that a little five
year old has all these thoughts in her brain and
is like, Mommy, where are all these thoughts coming from?
Did I didn't do it like what if that's not a.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Problem, right, What if that's not a problem.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
What if that's just a phase of childhood and she
is going to have a bumpy stage as she's sort
of like, what are all these thoughts doing in my head?
I mean we think that has grown ups imagine what
it's like as a little child.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Because you're saying from two to four, they're dissociating, realizing
that their own person. So at five, is that a
new development?

Speaker 3 (52:19):
The word isn't dissociating, not that it really matters, but
it's they're separating. Yeah, exactly, she's just becoming her own
little person five or six. The reason kids go to
kindergarten around a five or six is because their brains
have the capacity to think in with like perspective. Right,
not entirely yet, but their brains are developing a way

(52:39):
to be able to participate in this larger world around
them without you know, they can do things for themselves, right,
they can see that they're a part of something bigger
than themselves, but also separate. It's this fascinating stage of
brain development where there's there's sort of this like, you know,
ability to see the world for what it is, but

(53:00):
that's also scary. It's also a big deal.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
And that's a big deal going to school all day by, that's.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Right, and they're tired and their brains get tired, and
they're navigating social dynamics. So again here we are back
to like, prevent your kid from feeling any pain, you'll
keep her in a bubble her whole life. This is
hard stuff. So we want to be able to do

(53:33):
the both, and we want to pay attention. We don't
want to ignore. We want to be reflective and curious,
but we want to be sort of neutrally curious, and
we want to watch, and we don't want to jump
into catastrophic thinking because if we jump into catastrophic thinking,
we're going to unintentionally send the message to them that
there's a problem when most of the time, really most

(53:55):
of the time, it's not a problem. It might be
uncomfortable or in conven but it's not a crisis most
of the time.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
So the key points we need to think about are
totally just acknowledging their feelings, acknowledging what they're going through,
offering love and letting them lead in the solution.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
Right, So if we go yeah, so if you go
back to this question about the birthday, the school lunchtime roleplay,
and you've done all the navigate, you know, the validatingp
of course you feel that way that sucks bee you know,
or whatever word you're using with your kid. And then
you get to say, would you like some help figure
out what to do tomorrow? And she says yes, and

(54:37):
then you can say, well, let's think about it for
a moment. How do you want to feel at lunchtime tomorrow?
How do you want to feel at lunchtime tomorrow?

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Oh? Speaking of look who's here? Hi sunny Girlny just
came in from gymnastics.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Hi Sonny gymnastics? Yes here, Hi Sunny. How are you
doing girl? How is gymnastics? What's your favorite? What's your
favorite move in gymnastics? Like? Do you like a cart cartwheel, somersault,

(55:14):
the beam, the balance beam, the trampoline. That was always
my girl's favorite was the trampoline.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
Trampline's pretty awesome?

Speaker 3 (55:25):
You like, you don't know, you don't have to answer,
okay anyway, So then the question becomes how do you
want to feel? And then you get to problem solve together.
What choices can you make? How can we help it
get you to the place where it's more likely you
feel that way. Maybe you talk to a teacher, Maybe
you invite someone to have lunch with you before it's lunchtime.
Maybe you bring a special snack to share. I don't

(55:45):
know I'm making these.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
I'm fine a new friend to sit with, exactly.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
It's just empowering.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
I'm going to finish in ten minutes. Okay, I'm doing
it on a computer, says Kate lives in Colorado, So
she is. She's in Colorado. You're still in Colorado, although
you went to Japan.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Yeah for six months. I left there for six How
amazing I am?

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Was it amazing?

Speaker 3 (56:07):
It was amazing? And you'll find this interesting given this conversation. Now,
my girls are older. They're not five, right. We went
when they were fourteen and uh, fourteen and fourteen turning
fifteen and fifteen turning or six yeah, fifteen turning sixteen,
whatever was whatever. They're older than Sunny Is. And we
went and we had a family meeting and we said, Okay,

(56:28):
here's the deal. Our goal for the next six months
is to be as uncomfortable as possible.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Ooh gosh, you're so cool.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
As uncomfortable and impossible, and my daughter's like just ran
with it. It was so awesome because there was no like, oh, shoot,
this is going to be so hard, because we're going
to be so uncomfortable. Like we were living in Tokyo,
for God's sake, it was like the biggest city in
the world, and no one spoke the language to talk
about discomfort. No one knew we didn't know anyone. But

(56:58):
they just went into it quote unquote expecting it to
be uncomfortable, and so they didn't fear the discomfort. And
it was just like, Wow, best decision we've ever made.
It was amazing.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
You're so brilliant to even know to do that.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
And my sixteen year old now now I does at
eighteen and sixteen, she's actually going back to Japan next
fall to live with a family and go to a
traditional Japanese school all by herself for the.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
Semester because she loved it so much and embraced it
so much that she had this epic experience.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
And I think she's like not scared of being uncomfortable.
She's like, yeah, I'll go back. I mean, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Are you so proud of yourself? You should be Kate
you've done a great job.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Well, thanks, I mean I think we can. I'm not
different than you, We're not.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
You're so wise. This is such great information that you
just gave me and all these moms listening because I'm
over here literally working so hard to try to heal myself.
But then it's like, there's always this. Now, there's always this,
and it's so great to always think how I feel

(58:05):
about myself is how my daughter will feel about herself,
and it's not about her, it's about me, And like,
why am I not okay with feeling this way?

Speaker 3 (58:14):
Yeah? Yeah, we will unintentionally send messages to our kids
if we're not paying attention. And again, it's not like,
so therefore your daughter screwed. That's not the point. I mean,
she's five, you're doing great. Look at her. We just
saw her. She's brilliant. You're right, And we want to
continue to ask ourselves those questions so we don't unintentionally

(58:36):
get hooked into these unconscious patterns that are setting the
stage for our children to have some of those deep
beliefs about ourselves that we might have that we most
don't want our kids to have. But it's always going
to start with us. We always have to go first.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
That's amazing, Okay, So to wrap the last one. So
when she has all these thoughts and thinks like maybe
she could have done something, or maybe she couldn't cho
isn't no do? I just talk her through it and
just don't need to get a big answer. Just let
her know that it's okay to have lots of thoughts.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
Yeah, I mean less is more, you know. So, so
I would continue to reflect back to her, Oh it
sounds like you're having a lot of thoughts again, right,
not to send the message like, oh my gosh, you're
having all these thoughts again. Shoot, what are we going
to like? We don't want to do that. We just
want to reflect neutral curiosity. Tell me about them. What
are all the thoughts you have? Let's get them, Let's

(59:29):
write them down on a piece of paper.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Right.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
What we know is that when our thoughts stay in
our head, they linger. I mean, that's why we talk
to people, right.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
You think writing them down and then writing down what's
true next year is good. Sure this is my thought,
but then let's write down what's actually true.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
Yeah, but I would I would Caroline. I would ask
her if she thinks that would be helpful. Okay, so
that you're not it's not coming from and I have
to fix this because if you don't feel any different,
I'm not okay, Right, you're both handing it. You're like, Oh,
that must be so unpleasant, right, Oh, it's so hard

(01:00:10):
to have so many thoughts in your head, isn't it.
I know sometimes I have so many thoughts in my head.
And then if she's worried about her thoughts, not if
you're worried about her thoughts, but if she's worried about
her thoughts, then you could say, hey, you want some
help figuring this out. I've got an idea of something
that might help.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Can I This is how I felt when we had
that lunch in California. I was like, I need you
to talk to me every day. I just need to
talk to you every day.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
I have a twelve week program. You can jump right
in there, Caroline.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Tell us everything you have going on, Kate, because you
have a podcast, you have a book, you've got a program,
you speak, tell me everything later on out here, so
everybody knows. Because if y'all are always moved by this
conversation as I am, I know everyone's gonna want to
stay in touch with you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
That's amazing. Thank you. I on Instagram at Kate Kripke,
so please come find me there. And there is actually
in my bio a link two of a thirty minute
masterclass that talks a lot more about this stuff, Caroline.
And really it sort of talks about the root cause
of emotional overwhelming guilt and burnout in motherhood. So that
will ideally or hopefully give people some other things to

(01:01:13):
think about. I do have a podcast, Motherhood Uncut. We
have taken off this season, and we'll be starting up
again in the spring just because I was reworking some
stuff on the back end, so we'll be starting up
again in the spring. I think you need to come
over and talk to me over there, Caroline, so I'll
send you a message part of my podcast. And then
I have this twelve week program called the Calm Connection System,

(01:01:35):
and it's really designed to shift to move women from
emotional overwhelmed, guilt and burnout to calm and confidence and
connection in twelve weeks. And we're changing brains in that
program so that you're really both learning how to sit
with uncomfortable emotion and shift some of those negative beliefs
like we just talked about, but also showing up as

(01:01:56):
that steady, securely attached parent for your.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
So when at all of that and does the course meet.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
It's a twelve week program and people can start anytime.
We invite five people in each month, so you know
it's a new month, and I can't remember what our
numbers are right now, but but it is for twelve weeks,
and it involves it's a combo of one on one
coaching and small group coaching, and then we have people
in my program have wrap around support via an app

(01:02:26):
so that you can get coaching in real time for
those twelve weeks, because we want you to be implementing
all these skills you're learning in real time because when
you know this small repetitive action leads to change. And
so the whole goal of the twelve weeks is to
make it a twelve week program where by the end
of the twelve weeks, all the stuff you've just talked about,

(01:02:46):
you've shifted.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
I might need to look into this program page. I
was feeling really good about myself.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
And now I just realized I have all the both
and both and we always have more awareness that we
can learn and again.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
You know, you and I we met at a coaching program.
We're both kind of you know, we love learning and
growing and I and from my perspective, there's nothing, there's
no more better gift to our kids than working on
our own stuff so that we don't unintentionally project that
onto our children.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
So I love that. Okay, tell me what our lunch
was like that day we met. Probably a lot like this.
You get this out of me, Kate. I just had
another layer of I just got a new layer to
you know, work on.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
I mean, I loved our lunch. It was so fun.
We saw in that like that room was kind of shwanky,
and it was like the food was good. It was
like all I remember is like red velvet and dark walls.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Oh yeah, it was like back from like frank'sin natre days.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Yeah yeah, well I felt that way right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
I loved that lunch, and I loved how honest and
vulnerable and open you were. I mean, if only more
women wouldn't talk, mothers wouldn't talk so openly like that.
Many of us, many moms out there are suffering in silence.
They're afraid to say these things out loud and that's
really breaks my heart because once we all start talking
about it, we can be like, well, yeah, of course
like it. Actually we're not, as you know, batshit crazy,

(01:04:14):
as we tell what ourselves we are, right, We're just
humans trying to do this really challenging thing, raise these
little people, and we bring all of our stuff to
the table. So, I mean, I've never had a conversation
with any mother you included where I can't relate to
every single thing that someone is saying.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
I mean, that's why I like youll get it so
important to share because we're all trying our best, and
we all have information to help each other and support.
And why why, like you said, suffer in silence when
we could team up and truly help each other.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
That's right, no doubt.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
I love this kid. I always wrap up with leave
your Light, and this was just such an inspiring inspiration.
I feel like this is a divine conversation. It was
meant to happen. I'm so glad that we had this
chance to catch up three years later after meeting each other.
I always wrap about books to leave your life, just
some inspiration. What do you want people to know?

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Oh my gosh, I mean I want people to know
that they are enough. I think that some of these limiting,
fear based belief that we have about ourselves, all of them,
dare I say, are just outdated. They're just no longer true.
And there may have been a time early in our
childhood where some of that stuff was true. I don't

(01:05:34):
know what everyone's situation is, but sometimes when we're young,
we're for something, we're not enough of something to get
what we need as young kids, and so it may
be that that belief is true at one point, but
now in twenty twenty five, I promise you it's not true.
I really really cannot say that enough. It's like in
my coaching program. You know, I did not make up

(01:05:56):
this metaphor, but it's so valuable to think about. It's
like a sculptor walking up to a block of stone
and the head is already inside. All that sculpture is
doing is moving the excess stone out of the way
to get to the head right or the body or
the hand or whatever it's a sculpture of. And that's

(01:06:18):
how I think of all of us. Right, we already
have everything that we need. It's already here. We just
have to move away some of the stuff that has
built up over the decades of our lives that's getting
in the way. And if you want to be the
kind of mom that you dream of being to your kiddo,
you're already capable. We may just have to move out

(01:06:39):
some of the other stuff out of the way so
that you can show up as you're meant to be.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
This was so great, Kate, Thank you so much, so
much wisdom I just got downloaded on me. I am
so thankful, I'm glad, I need I'm so grateful to
get to chat with one like you who has such
knowledge of how to maneuver this and how to rethink

(01:07:05):
and honestly, your program sounds very appealing to me, so
I would love to get some information, and I'm sure
a lot of other moms out there would as well.
So it's like a weekly meetup on zoom.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
There are uh, there are three group coaching calls per
week that you can choose from. You're not expected to
come to all three, but we have a more lead them.
Oh yeah, I lead them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
And there it's a small group because we keep our
group small. And then there's a and then there's you know,
information that you get on your in your inbox, in
your email. That's teaching you skills. It's like me on
a video and I'm teaching you something and you can
watch it as many times as you want and whenever
you want. And then we have the three group coaching calls.
You can come to all three if you want, or

(01:07:47):
you can just come to one. And then we every
week for twelve weeks, and then we have this back
end in your pocket coaching that's where you know you
get support in real time when you need it. And
then you have the three one ones with me. So
it's a lot of wrap around support. It's really designed,
like I said, to change your brain. And I have

(01:08:08):
in three years never had a woman join this program
and show up for the work and not get to
where she wanted to go in twelve weeks, So it
is amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
I feel like that's a good amount of time to rewire,
to really start getting it and then putting it into practice.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Well, Kate, thank you so much for joining me. This
is amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
You're welcome. I love seeing your beautiful face and Sunny's
beautiful face.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
You're gonna tell Kate by her I'm putting head money Bye.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
Sunny, Bye Sonny.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Y're amazing, Sunny.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
Does your mom or dad ever sing to you? You
are my Sonshine and my only. Sunshine is my favorite
song I have all time, and now I'm going to
think of you every time I sing it or hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Yay, Okay, this was amazing and I would love to
come on your podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
I would love it. I'm going to reach out to
you on the back end about a few things. Okay,
love you, Caroline. Had so good to see you, you too, Bye, ladies,
Bye bye.