February 27, 2025 • 23 mins
Maria chats with returning guest Roseanne Parry about her latest book A Wolf Called Fire, a story inspired by the real wolves of the American West, especially Wolf 8 who was at Yellowstone National Park as a pup and later became a successful pack leader.
Although the book is aimed at middle-school children, if you love dogs and their behavior, you will enjoy this book!
Although the book is aimed at middle-school children, if you love dogs and their behavior, you will enjoy this book!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me, well,
you know, I realize I'm welcoming her back. It is
Roseanne Perry and she's back with her latest book, a
(00:22):
Wolf called Fire. You know, Roseanne, I realized we spoke
back in the fall with your last book, that's right,
with a horse named Sky.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yes, that was so cool.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Of course, of course. Well, first of all, and I
realized because I listened a little bit to our last
interview and I realized, and it's so funny. But because
you're consistent, because I commended you for your dedication, and
that was the first thing I was thinking of for this,
you know, to mention it to you, for this book
(00:58):
for young leaders of every coin, may you grow in
strength and wisdom and courage. That is just so perfect. No,
it's a perfect dedication. What made you think of that? Like,
why why would you? Why did you do that? Well?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
One of the themes of this book for the wolf whose
alpha name becomes Fire, is that he's he's an unlikely leader.
He's the Omega wolf, meaning the lowest ranking wolf of
his pack, and he doesn't have the kind of charisma
or size or you know, domineering personality that other alpha
(01:34):
wolves he knows has, and so a lot of his
journey is figuring out how he can be a leader
while still being true to the wolf he really is, right, Yes, Yeah,
And that's what I'm really what I'm really hoping for
my young readers too, is not that they feel like
they have to become something different to be a leader
(01:57):
in their life, correct, But that they can find a
way to be a leader with the personality and the
skills and the and the outlook and heart that they
already have.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
You know, that they can look within and find that
that young leader in themselves and really embrace it, because
there isn't just.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
One way right, right, and just to like listen to
their inner voice and their inner strength and just use that. Yeah, No,
for sure. So your book, which I enjoyed and I
love the illustrations as well, is based on a real story.
So how did you come how did you come up
to that to decide you know about the real wolf
(02:39):
that it's based on.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, lots more has been written. It was I started
researching wolf caused fire in twenty twenty two. But I
had researched my initial wolf book, A Wolf called Wander,
in twenty twelve, so you know, ten years had passed
and lots of new stuff had been written, right dumb
Rick McIntyre's books about the Yellowstone Wolves has come out
(03:03):
since that time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And so I
was so inspired by this young wolf, Wolf eight, one
of the original wolves brought to Yellowstone. He was brought
with his parents and his three brothers, and he was
the omega wolf in that pup group. He was smaller
than them, he was not so handsome. The others were
very charismatic and very domineering, and they bullied him all
(03:29):
the time, the rangers who were watching them or seeing
him getting nipped dead and food stolen, and they made
him submit to him all the time, and they were like, wow,
is this this pup even gonna make it right?
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Right? Yeah? For sure? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And and to be honest, wolves, I mean, this is
kind of a harsh statistic, but the wilderness is hard
for wolves and about half of wolf pups don't make
it to their first year.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Oh I didn't realize that. And yeah, and why is
that is that because so the bullying, or they're because
they're weaker, Like why why is that?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Well, it's a lot of reasons. If if the pack
itself is prospering and they can feed the mother, well,
then they'll be well nourished. But if they're not prospering,
if they if it's intensely cold, so there are some
things that if they're like nutritionally compromised, that's really hard
(04:26):
on a wolf because it's hard for them to keep warm.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Wolf pups are usually born in like pretty early in
the spring when it is very cold where they live.
And then also young pups when they're first out of
the den. You know, there isn't much that hunts an
adult wolf, but there are plenty of things that hunt
a wolf, pop eagles and all kinds of things, and so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
It makes me feel I know, those poor babies, I know,
I know.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So but at the end of that first year, as
as is reasonable to expect, only two of the four
pups in that group did survive to be adults, but
eight was one of them. Wow, that was one of them.
And he came out of that experience of being bullied
his in his first year with Oceans of compassion for
(05:18):
other wolf pups.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And so then when he dispersed from his pack and
he went, you know, to find his own life, he
came across another wolf pack that was in a crisis
at the time. It was one of the largest and
most impressive charismatic male and female wolves. They had eight pups,
(05:40):
and the day those eight pups were born, the alpha
male was shot by a poacher. And so here's this
female wolf all on her own, eight pups to feed,
and this smallish, not very impressive looking the wolf comes along,
and instead of trying to exporte some kind of alliance
with the alpha female, he just goes straight to those
(06:03):
pups and he's like, these kids are in trouble, and
so he starts teaching them how to hunt little things
mice and voles and gophers, and he moves them gradually
with lots of patience and encouragement to hunting bigger and
bigger things, right, taking the pressure off of that alpha
female to bring down larger game. And because he's such
(06:25):
a gentle and generous mentor to those pups, the alpha
female does choose him to be her partner. And because
he was so good to his these aid adopted pups
instead of dispersing when they became adults, even though they
grew to be much larger than him. Because their own
(06:47):
father was a very large, impressive wolf, they stayed with him.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And they were fanatically loyal, and because he was such
a good teacher, they became so impressive in the hunt,
cohesive and fast and strong. They brought down their prey
every time, and so they grew to be a very
strong pack, and those eight offspring went on to be
(07:13):
alpha's of many other packs in the future. So that
most unpromising wolf who looked like he wasn't even gonna
make it at the beginning, became the patriarch really of
the most powerful pack in Yellowstone history. Wow. Right, because
he chose this different leadership style. He wasn't He never
(07:35):
made them bow to him, he'd never bullied his pack.
He was always collaborative and kind. He loved to wrestle
with the pups. He was just a very different kind
of alpha, and it turned out to be really successful,
and lots of his sons and daughters took elements of
his leadership style and carried it into the future.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
So that was I was like, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
It is cool. It's cool. I mean, honestly, I think
humans need to learn from him and realized that. You know,
being a bully doesn't always make you successful, you.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Know, right, yeah, being strong in the moment, But there
are things that look weak in the moment but actually
turn out to be strong. And give you an example, right,
Yellowstone Ate. One of the things that he did when
when one wolf pack attacks another wolf pack, as they
(08:30):
do jockeying for territory and sessions. Typically not always, but
typically those packs fight until the alpha is killed, and
then the pack of the killed alpha sort of panics
and scatters, right, and that's the end of it. But
(08:51):
Wolf eight made a different choice. He although he hunted
or he had a fight with almost every pack in
Yellowstone Park at some point in his life, he never
killed his opposing alpha. Not ever. He fought them until
that alpha would submit to him, and once the alpha submitted,
(09:15):
he let them go. Wow, which seems on the face
of it like a weak choice. Right, Here's the genius
of it, though, once that wolf packed disperse instead of
scattering in panic with those wolves going I don't know
what happened there.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
It can be out, you know what we do.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Instead, they're still with their alpha, and their alpha takes
them away from Eights territory and says to them, whatever
we do, we are never going to go over there
and fight those wolves again. We are never going to
cross into their territory again. And they tell that to
the next spring, their grandchildren and their great care and children,
(09:59):
and so the territory, it's territory, Yeah, became much stronger, sure, right,
stronger than it would have been if he had killed
his opponent.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Right right, because he doesn't always have to defend it
now because yeah, well that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Right, because they're like, we're not going over We're not going.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
To go over there because he was cool, he let
us be. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah. And so so I love that there is something
that doesn't maybe look powerful in the moment, has more staying.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Power, right, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And what choice.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, and what a wonderful lesson to be taught to
young people two.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Right, right, right right? Yeah. Isn't just one way that
that being big and being tough. It's just not the
only way you have options.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
You have options. Yeah, and usually you know, I mean
for a human, usually bullies, Yeah, they really have very
low self esteem. That's why they're bullies, you know, I mean,
that's really what the bottom line is. Very it's fascinating
and it's fine. I mean, and your story is perfect
because the book obviously follows you know, warm who becomes Fire,
(11:14):
you know his name Fire, but his Wolf eight. Now,
other than all of the offspring of Wolf eight, has
there ever been another wolf that's similar to Wolf eight?
Or is he kind of like one of a kind?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Well, he was definitely sort of iconic, okay, history of
Yellowstone Park. But the thing, the thing I think is
really beautiful is that many of his offspring and his
adopted pups and the generations following many of them. Here's
the intelligence of wolves. Right when they're in a pack.
(11:52):
They can see if the pack dynamic is working right, right,
they can see, oh, this this hunting strategy works. It again,
this strategy for settling a dispute in the pack was successful.
I'm gonna I'm going to repeat that I like how
I'm treated in this pack. I'm going to stay or
But they can also decide I don't really care for
(12:13):
how I'm treated in this pack. I'm going to go
join the neighbor packs. Right, they have choices and they
can see how different kinds of pack leadership work out,
and so they have some freedom. Once they're adult wolves,
they can leave their own pack. They have some freedom
to choose a different pack and a different strategy, and
(12:36):
when they see something that's successful, they're inclined to imitate it, right,
And so many of the legacy of Yellowstone epe Is
is those more compassionate, more collaborative leadership tactics that that
his offspring carried forward into the future. And so you
(13:00):
can still see some elements of his leadership style in
the park today.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Wow, that's pretty cool. That's very cool and so cool
that you know, discovered this and decided to write about it,
you know, in a kid's book, not really kids, like
a young adult book. Even though I enjoyed it, it
was good for me to read.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You know, I always want a book that's fun for
adults to read out.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Loud, yes, right, yes, of course works.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
For the whole family, huh. And also that works for
teachers to read out loud in their classroom. Yeah. So
that's the thing. The beauty of middle grade, I think especially,
and why I write for that eight to twelve year
old audience so often is because it's sort of the
last group of books that are still read out loud.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
That's true. I didn't even think of that, but you're right.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And I love that. I love the culture of reading
out loud in families. Yes, there's just something really beautiful
when that happens, and so I want to make sure
that my books always read out loud.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, that makes sense. You know, I wasn't thinking that
when I was reading it. I was thinking more with
the with the illustrations. I can in my brain it
was a kid, you know, a young adult going to
bed and reading it and with the illustrations and kind
of an easy read for them. But yeah, you're absolutely right,
of course reading it out loud for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, and I should say those illustrations are by the
absolutely brilliant Monica Armigo. She is from Madrid, Spain, and
the she works digitally that art. But I just love
the depth un dimensions.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
It's so careful to get every species just right, because
some speed like like American badgers are super different from
badgers in Europe, right, right, Yadgers in Europe. I've read
but nine and sort of adorable looking. But you know,
badgers in North America are are there? So the one
of the most aggressive weasels out there, badgers and wolverine, right,
(15:03):
they won't back come from a bear. They smell bad,
they're extremely crabby. It's a whole other game. Yeah. So's
she's great about being you know, meticulously taken. I kid,
sure she's representing the right species and she's just great
to work with. So yeah, and it's the same illustrator
as from a wolf called Wander.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
So I was I was going to ask you about that.
So you've worked obviously you worked with her before, but
it was on the other wolf book you had someone
different with Sky, right, with a horse gull Sky.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, Kirby Sagan illustrated a horse named Sky, and a
whale of the Wild was illustrated by Lindsay Moore.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Okay, okay, So now I have to ask you this
because when we spoke when when a horse named Sky
came out, and I'm sure I asked you what you
were doing next. I don't recall you talking about this book,
but you were probably in the process of writing this
book or was this already written? Because I have probably
(16:02):
in the process.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think do you know why. I
probably didn't say it, Probably because we are still negotiating
the country.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, well that makes sense, of course I get it.
Of course, why would you talk about it? Yeah? Probably
let you brother. You know, I don't remember, but you
probably said, you know, I'm working on something, and you know,
and I said, okay, we'll talk again, never realizing it
would be you know. No, it's wonderful and what I
really Yes, I do.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Have another Voice of the Wilderness novel under contract with
Random House. Okay, so the next one will be about
Ravens and I'm super excited.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Oh I'm excited about that too. Okay, So is that
in the process of being written or written already.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I'm still writing that now, so it's going to be
a while. Ok If I need to finish writing it,
we need to revise, and then the illustrator needs another
six months or so to do all of that. That's
a lot of it. It's like one hundred and thirty.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah, it is a lot. It is. It is a lot. Yeah,
but it's great. It's great. But no, I get that.
I mean, I think the illustrations just really describe everything
that you just wrote, you know, and the way and
the way you have them disperse, it's like the like
the timing of them. I love timing is the right word,
but it's there, it's perfectly spread out, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, I really. The book designer is Sylvie Lafoux at Hypercollins,
and she's brilliant and making sure each each placement of
each illustration is just right, it's sized right, and the
text curves around the illustration in a beautiful way. And
I mean design of a book is a whole art
(17:40):
onto itself. Oh sure, he's brilliant at it. So she
and she and Virginia Duncan are like the perfect team
to work with at Green Willow.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah. So yeah, no, I think it's perfect. And I
love the fact that you know, after the story of
Warm than Fire, that you talk about the real wolf
behind the story and wolves in the wild. So it's
very educational as you know, it continues, which I think
is a very nice touch as well.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I'm so grateful that they give me lots of room
for back matter because I know kids are really a
child loves to know a fact, sure, and I love
to I love to have some places for them to
go with their curiosity and some things for them to
dig in a little more about I want them to
know something about the ecosystems and to think about the
(18:33):
environment and so. And also if there's a nonfiction element,
it's also makes it easier for teachers to use it
in the classroom.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Sure, no, for sure, yeah, because then you said, because
I was thinking the same thing. Kids are curious, so
it just it kind of satisfies that curiosity for them
after reading the story and like, oh, I want to
know what else about this? So that's that's great. So yeah,
so here's something and maybe could you see this as
a movie?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Oh? I sure hope so, oh okay, okay, yeah, we have.
We have been talking to film companies, both live action
and animation companies off and on throughout the years, and
so I know that that that they're my agent is
actively working on on pitching it to film companies.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Oh that's great.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Films take a while, of.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Course they do, of course they do. But I think
also having the illustrations that you have, well like kind
of helps that along.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I hope. Yeah. I think it would be a really
fun film to make, And there's been some gorgeous filmmaking
from children's books. I just love the movie from a
Wild Robot Olmer. Yeah, so beautiful and a really emotionally
intelligent story and artfully conveyed. Yeah, with Stadliss so so
(20:02):
I have lots of hope.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
But yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I'm also realistic that that sort of thing will likely
take a while.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
It takes a while, right, And it's not like you're
not doing anything else. You're working on your next one.
I have out the Ravens, which, by the way, exactly
saying you're not running out of ideas and you are
currently writing. And I don't think I realized this before.
But is it true you always write your books in
a treehouse, like not in your backyard? Is that true?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I do have a treehouse in my backyard and I
ride up there very often. Nice not today though, because
like thirty degrees out and snowing.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Oh yeah, that would be good. That would yeah, not
a good idea.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah. Also, my seahouse doesn't have walls. Right, If my
treehouse had walls in the door, then raccoons would figure
out a way to get in there and they poop
all over it, and.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Oh, okay, so that would be bad. Yeah, No, I
get that.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I get My seahouse is quite open so I worked
there in the summer. I love working there in the summer.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
In the trees and it's sidealist right right, but it's
it's not an all weather treehouse.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Let's just say, okay, all right, but that makes sense.
It makes sense that you would do your writing there
in the summer. I get it.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yes, yes, yeah, it's super fun and when the kids
were little, it has a rock wall to get up
and is it blinding it down and nice?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
All the fun thing, all fun. That's great. I love it. Yeah.
So okay, a wolf called Fire. So Roseanne, where can
my listeners get this book?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It should be available everywhere. It came out on the
fourth of this month, and so it should be in
your local independent bookstore. I work at an independent bookstore myself,
and a Balloon's in Portland, and so I'm always encouraging
people to get their books there. But it's also available
in the big chains and the big box stores. It's
available online, and it's also I also have to give
(21:53):
a shout out to school and public libraries. I get
terrific support from our libraries, and boy are they in
need of our support now.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yes, for sure. But that's wonderful. That's good.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, So if it's if there isn't a bookstore in
your town, or if that would be a big luxury
to get a book, please tell your library. I'm always
grateful when kids check out my books from the library too.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah. I remember as a kid, we had a bookmobile
that would come to my block once a week. It
was so wonderful, like just talking about it, I can
still smell it, and I can't tell you how many
years ago it was, but it was just a wonderful
thing to get a book out of a library. But yes,
oh that's fun. Yeah it was fun.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I love bookmobiles too, and I actually wrote a picture
book that's a little tribute to them called Big Trip Day.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Oh I didn't even realize that. How cool? Oh yes, yeah,
bookmobiles are the best. And I'm so happy that they're
still around, right they are still around? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
It's hard when you're not a child anymore, and like,
are they still around? Yes?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah? Well yeah, and it's a good solution in places
where bookstores are sent on the ground, sure, and even
library branches, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
For sure, for sure. All right, Well, Roseanne Party, thank
you so much. A wolf called Fire. I really enjoyed it.
It's wonderful to talk to you again, and I will
be talking to you again when your book, well, whichever
happens first, either the Raven's book or maybe the movie
film animation. I'm sure we'll talk it again in the
(23:32):
near future. So I thank you for your time.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Thank you, Maria, it was great to talk to you again.
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me, well,
you know, I realize I'm welcoming her back. It is
Roseanne Perry and she's back with her latest book, a
(00:22):
Wolf called Fire. You know, Roseanne, I realized we spoke
back in the fall with your last book, that's right,
with a horse named Sky.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yes, that was so cool.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Of course, of course. Well, first of all, and I
realized because I listened a little bit to our last
interview and I realized, and it's so funny. But because
you're consistent, because I commended you for your dedication, and
that was the first thing I was thinking of for this,
you know, to mention it to you, for this book
(00:58):
for young leaders of every coin, may you grow in
strength and wisdom and courage. That is just so perfect. No,
it's a perfect dedication. What made you think of that? Like,
why why would you? Why did you do that? Well?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
One of the themes of this book for the wolf whose
alpha name becomes Fire, is that he's he's an unlikely leader.
He's the Omega wolf, meaning the lowest ranking wolf of
his pack, and he doesn't have the kind of charisma
or size or you know, domineering personality that other alpha
(01:34):
wolves he knows has, and so a lot of his
journey is figuring out how he can be a leader
while still being true to the wolf he really is, right, Yes, Yeah,
And that's what I'm really what I'm really hoping for
my young readers too, is not that they feel like
they have to become something different to be a leader
(01:57):
in their life, correct, But that they can find a
way to be a leader with the personality and the
skills and the and the outlook and heart that they
already have.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
You know, that they can look within and find that
that young leader in themselves and really embrace it, because
there isn't just.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
One way right, right, and just to like listen to
their inner voice and their inner strength and just use that. Yeah, No,
for sure. So your book, which I enjoyed and I
love the illustrations as well, is based on a real story.
So how did you come how did you come up
to that to decide you know about the real wolf
(02:39):
that it's based on.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, lots more has been written. It was I started
researching wolf caused fire in twenty twenty two. But I
had researched my initial wolf book, A Wolf called Wander,
in twenty twelve, so you know, ten years had passed
and lots of new stuff had been written, right dumb
Rick McIntyre's books about the Yellowstone Wolves has come out
(03:03):
since that time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And so I
was so inspired by this young wolf, Wolf eight, one
of the original wolves brought to Yellowstone. He was brought
with his parents and his three brothers, and he was
the omega wolf in that pup group. He was smaller
than them, he was not so handsome. The others were
very charismatic and very domineering, and they bullied him all
(03:29):
the time, the rangers who were watching them or seeing
him getting nipped dead and food stolen, and they made
him submit to him all the time, and they were like, wow,
is this this pup even gonna make it right?
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Right? Yeah? For sure? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
And and to be honest, wolves, I mean, this is
kind of a harsh statistic, but the wilderness is hard
for wolves and about half of wolf pups don't make
it to their first year.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Oh I didn't realize that. And yeah, and why is
that is that because so the bullying, or they're because
they're weaker, Like why why is that?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Well, it's a lot of reasons. If if the pack
itself is prospering and they can feed the mother, well,
then they'll be well nourished. But if they're not prospering,
if they if it's intensely cold, so there are some
things that if they're like nutritionally compromised, that's really hard
(04:26):
on a wolf because it's hard for them to keep warm.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Wolf pups are usually born in like pretty early in
the spring when it is very cold where they live.
And then also young pups when they're first out of
the den. You know, there isn't much that hunts an
adult wolf, but there are plenty of things that hunt
a wolf, pop eagles and all kinds of things, and so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
It makes me feel I know, those poor babies, I know,
I know.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So but at the end of that first year, as
as is reasonable to expect, only two of the four
pups in that group did survive to be adults, but
eight was one of them. Wow, that was one of them.
And he came out of that experience of being bullied
his in his first year with Oceans of compassion for
(05:18):
other wolf pups.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And so then when he dispersed from his pack and
he went, you know, to find his own life, he
came across another wolf pack that was in a crisis
at the time. It was one of the largest and
most impressive charismatic male and female wolves. They had eight pups,
(05:40):
and the day those eight pups were born, the alpha
male was shot by a poacher. And so here's this
female wolf all on her own, eight pups to feed,
and this smallish, not very impressive looking the wolf comes along,
and instead of trying to exporte some kind of alliance
with the alpha female, he just goes straight to those
(06:03):
pups and he's like, these kids are in trouble, and
so he starts teaching them how to hunt little things
mice and voles and gophers, and he moves them gradually
with lots of patience and encouragement to hunting bigger and
bigger things, right, taking the pressure off of that alpha
female to bring down larger game. And because he's such
(06:25):
a gentle and generous mentor to those pups, the alpha
female does choose him to be her partner. And because
he was so good to his these aid adopted pups
instead of dispersing when they became adults, even though they
grew to be much larger than him. Because their own
(06:47):
father was a very large, impressive wolf, they stayed with him.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And they were fanatically loyal, and because he was such
a good teacher, they became so impressive in the hunt,
cohesive and fast and strong. They brought down their prey
every time, and so they grew to be a very
strong pack, and those eight offspring went on to be
(07:13):
alpha's of many other packs in the future. So that
most unpromising wolf who looked like he wasn't even gonna
make it at the beginning, became the patriarch really of
the most powerful pack in Yellowstone history. Wow. Right, because
he chose this different leadership style. He wasn't He never
(07:35):
made them bow to him, he'd never bullied his pack.
He was always collaborative and kind. He loved to wrestle
with the pups. He was just a very different kind
of alpha, and it turned out to be really successful,
and lots of his sons and daughters took elements of
his leadership style and carried it into the future.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
So that was I was like, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
It is cool. It's cool. I mean, honestly, I think
humans need to learn from him and realized that. You know,
being a bully doesn't always make you successful, you.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Know, right, yeah, being strong in the moment, But there
are things that look weak in the moment but actually
turn out to be strong. And give you an example, right,
Yellowstone Ate. One of the things that he did when
when one wolf pack attacks another wolf pack, as they
(08:30):
do jockeying for territory and sessions. Typically not always, but
typically those packs fight until the alpha is killed, and
then the pack of the killed alpha sort of panics
and scatters, right, and that's the end of it. But
(08:51):
Wolf eight made a different choice. He although he hunted
or he had a fight with almost every pack in
Yellowstone Park at some point in his life, he never
killed his opposing alpha. Not ever. He fought them until
that alpha would submit to him, and once the alpha submitted,
(09:15):
he let them go. Wow, which seems on the face
of it like a weak choice. Right, Here's the genius
of it, though, once that wolf packed disperse instead of
scattering in panic with those wolves going I don't know
what happened there.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
It can be out, you know what we do.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Instead, they're still with their alpha, and their alpha takes
them away from Eights territory and says to them, whatever
we do, we are never going to go over there
and fight those wolves again. We are never going to
cross into their territory again. And they tell that to
the next spring, their grandchildren and their great care and children,
(09:59):
and so the territory, it's territory, Yeah, became much stronger, sure, right,
stronger than it would have been if he had killed
his opponent.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Right right, because he doesn't always have to defend it
now because yeah, well that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Right, because they're like, we're not going over We're not going.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
To go over there because he was cool, he let
us be. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah. And so so I love that there is something
that doesn't maybe look powerful in the moment, has more staying.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Power, right, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And what choice.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, and what a wonderful lesson to be taught to
young people two.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Right, right, right right? Yeah. Isn't just one way that
that being big and being tough. It's just not the
only way you have options.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
You have options. Yeah, and usually you know, I mean
for a human, usually bullies, Yeah, they really have very
low self esteem. That's why they're bullies, you know, I mean,
that's really what the bottom line is. Very it's fascinating
and it's fine. I mean, and your story is perfect
because the book obviously follows you know, warm who becomes Fire,
(11:14):
you know his name Fire, but his Wolf eight. Now,
other than all of the offspring of Wolf eight, has
there ever been another wolf that's similar to Wolf eight?
Or is he kind of like one of a kind?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Well, he was definitely sort of iconic, okay, history of
Yellowstone Park. But the thing, the thing I think is
really beautiful is that many of his offspring and his
adopted pups and the generations following many of them. Here's
the intelligence of wolves. Right when they're in a pack.
(11:52):
They can see if the pack dynamic is working right, right,
they can see, oh, this this hunting strategy works. It again,
this strategy for settling a dispute in the pack was successful.
I'm gonna I'm going to repeat that I like how
I'm treated in this pack. I'm going to stay or
But they can also decide I don't really care for
(12:13):
how I'm treated in this pack. I'm going to go
join the neighbor packs. Right, they have choices and they
can see how different kinds of pack leadership work out,
and so they have some freedom. Once they're adult wolves,
they can leave their own pack. They have some freedom
to choose a different pack and a different strategy, and
(12:36):
when they see something that's successful, they're inclined to imitate it, right,
And so many of the legacy of Yellowstone epe Is
is those more compassionate, more collaborative leadership tactics that that
his offspring carried forward into the future. And so you
(13:00):
can still see some elements of his leadership style in
the park today.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Wow, that's pretty cool. That's very cool and so cool
that you know, discovered this and decided to write about it,
you know, in a kid's book, not really kids, like
a young adult book. Even though I enjoyed it, it
was good for me to read.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You know, I always want a book that's fun for
adults to read out.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Loud, yes, right, yes, of course works.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
For the whole family, huh. And also that works for
teachers to read out loud in their classroom. Yeah. So
that's the thing. The beauty of middle grade, I think especially,
and why I write for that eight to twelve year
old audience so often is because it's sort of the
last group of books that are still read out loud.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
That's true. I didn't even think of that, but you're right.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And I love that. I love the culture of reading
out loud in families. Yes, there's just something really beautiful
when that happens, and so I want to make sure
that my books always read out loud.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, that makes sense. You know, I wasn't thinking that
when I was reading it. I was thinking more with
the with the illustrations. I can in my brain it
was a kid, you know, a young adult going to
bed and reading it and with the illustrations and kind
of an easy read for them. But yeah, you're absolutely right,
of course reading it out loud for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, and I should say those illustrations are by the
absolutely brilliant Monica Armigo. She is from Madrid, Spain, and
the she works digitally that art. But I just love
the depth un dimensions.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
It's so careful to get every species just right, because
some speed like like American badgers are super different from
badgers in Europe, right, right, Yadgers in Europe. I've read
but nine and sort of adorable looking. But you know,
badgers in North America are are there? So the one
of the most aggressive weasels out there, badgers and wolverine, right,
(15:03):
they won't back come from a bear. They smell bad,
they're extremely crabby. It's a whole other game. Yeah. So's
she's great about being you know, meticulously taken. I kid,
sure she's representing the right species and she's just great
to work with. So yeah, and it's the same illustrator
as from a wolf called Wander.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
So I was I was going to ask you about that.
So you've worked obviously you worked with her before, but
it was on the other wolf book you had someone
different with Sky, right, with a horse gull Sky.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, Kirby Sagan illustrated a horse named Sky, and a
whale of the Wild was illustrated by Lindsay Moore.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Okay, okay, So now I have to ask you this
because when we spoke when when a horse named Sky
came out, and I'm sure I asked you what you
were doing next. I don't recall you talking about this book,
but you were probably in the process of writing this
book or was this already written? Because I have probably
(16:02):
in the process.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think do you know why. I
probably didn't say it, Probably because we are still negotiating
the country.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, well that makes sense, of course I get it.
Of course, why would you talk about it? Yeah? Probably
let you brother. You know, I don't remember, but you
probably said, you know, I'm working on something, and you know,
and I said, okay, we'll talk again, never realizing it
would be you know. No, it's wonderful and what I
really Yes, I do.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Have another Voice of the Wilderness novel under contract with
Random House. Okay, so the next one will be about
Ravens and I'm super excited.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Oh I'm excited about that too. Okay, So is that
in the process of being written or written already.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I'm still writing that now, so it's going to be
a while. Ok If I need to finish writing it,
we need to revise, and then the illustrator needs another
six months or so to do all of that. That's
a lot of it. It's like one hundred and thirty.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah, it is a lot. It is. It is a lot. Yeah,
but it's great. It's great. But no, I get that.
I mean, I think the illustrations just really describe everything
that you just wrote, you know, and the way and
the way you have them disperse, it's like the like
the timing of them. I love timing is the right word,
but it's there, it's perfectly spread out, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, I really. The book designer is Sylvie Lafoux at Hypercollins,
and she's brilliant and making sure each each placement of
each illustration is just right, it's sized right, and the
text curves around the illustration in a beautiful way. And
I mean design of a book is a whole art
(17:40):
onto itself. Oh sure, he's brilliant at it. So she
and she and Virginia Duncan are like the perfect team
to work with at Green Willow.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah. So yeah, no, I think it's perfect. And I
love the fact that you know, after the story of
Warm than Fire, that you talk about the real wolf
behind the story and wolves in the wild. So it's
very educational as you know, it continues, which I think
is a very nice touch as well.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I'm so grateful that they give me lots of room
for back matter because I know kids are really a
child loves to know a fact, sure, and I love
to I love to have some places for them to
go with their curiosity and some things for them to
dig in a little more about I want them to
know something about the ecosystems and to think about the
(18:33):
environment and so. And also if there's a nonfiction element,
it's also makes it easier for teachers to use it
in the classroom.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Sure, no, for sure, yeah, because then you said, because
I was thinking the same thing. Kids are curious, so
it just it kind of satisfies that curiosity for them
after reading the story and like, oh, I want to
know what else about this? So that's that's great. So yeah,
so here's something and maybe could you see this as
a movie?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Oh? I sure hope so, oh okay, okay, yeah, we have.
We have been talking to film companies, both live action
and animation companies off and on throughout the years, and
so I know that that that they're my agent is
actively working on on pitching it to film companies.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Oh that's great.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Films take a while, of.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Course they do, of course they do. But I think
also having the illustrations that you have, well like kind
of helps that along.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I hope. Yeah. I think it would be a really
fun film to make, And there's been some gorgeous filmmaking
from children's books. I just love the movie from a
Wild Robot Olmer. Yeah, so beautiful and a really emotionally
intelligent story and artfully conveyed. Yeah, with Stadliss so so
(20:02):
I have lots of hope.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
But yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I'm also realistic that that sort of thing will likely
take a while.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
It takes a while, right, And it's not like you're
not doing anything else. You're working on your next one.
I have out the Ravens, which, by the way, exactly
saying you're not running out of ideas and you are
currently writing. And I don't think I realized this before.
But is it true you always write your books in
a treehouse, like not in your backyard? Is that true?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I do have a treehouse in my backyard and I
ride up there very often. Nice not today though, because
like thirty degrees out and snowing.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Oh yeah, that would be good. That would yeah, not
a good idea.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah. Also, my seahouse doesn't have walls. Right, If my
treehouse had walls in the door, then raccoons would figure
out a way to get in there and they poop
all over it, and.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Oh, okay, so that would be bad. Yeah, No, I
get that.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I get My seahouse is quite open so I worked
there in the summer. I love working there in the summer.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
In the trees and it's sidealist right right, but it's
it's not an all weather treehouse.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Let's just say, okay, all right, but that makes sense.
It makes sense that you would do your writing there
in the summer. I get it.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yes, yes, yeah, it's super fun and when the kids
were little, it has a rock wall to get up
and is it blinding it down and nice?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
All the fun thing, all fun. That's great. I love it. Yeah.
So okay, a wolf called Fire. So Roseanne, where can
my listeners get this book?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
It should be available everywhere. It came out on the
fourth of this month, and so it should be in
your local independent bookstore. I work at an independent bookstore myself,
and a Balloon's in Portland, and so I'm always encouraging
people to get their books there. But it's also available
in the big chains and the big box stores. It's
available online, and it's also I also have to give
(21:53):
a shout out to school and public libraries. I get
terrific support from our libraries, and boy are they in
need of our support now.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yes, for sure. But that's wonderful. That's good.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, So if it's if there isn't a bookstore in
your town, or if that would be a big luxury
to get a book, please tell your library. I'm always
grateful when kids check out my books from the library too.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah. I remember as a kid, we had a bookmobile
that would come to my block once a week. It
was so wonderful, like just talking about it, I can
still smell it, and I can't tell you how many
years ago it was, but it was just a wonderful
thing to get a book out of a library. But yes,
oh that's fun. Yeah it was fun.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I love bookmobiles too, and I actually wrote a picture
book that's a little tribute to them called Big Trip Day.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Oh I didn't even realize that. How cool? Oh yes, yeah,
bookmobiles are the best. And I'm so happy that they're
still around, right they are still around? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
It's hard when you're not a child anymore, and like,
are they still around? Yes?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah? Well yeah, and it's a good solution in places
where bookstores are sent on the ground, sure, and even
library branches, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
For sure, for sure. All right, Well, Roseanne Party, thank
you so much. A wolf called Fire. I really enjoyed it.
It's wonderful to talk to you again, and I will
be talking to you again when your book, well, whichever
happens first, either the Raven's book or maybe the movie
film animation. I'm sure we'll talk it again in the
(23:32):
near future. So I thank you for your time.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Thank you, Maria, it was great to talk to you again.
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