March 21, 2025 • 20 mins
Maria chats with Skool Dogs co-founder Brandon Womack. Skool Dogs are highly trained dogs that can detect ammunition, firearms, explosives and more! As their website states "First Patrolmen, then cameras, and Now Skool Dogs" They patrol schools across America.
Listen and Learn! For more info: SKOOLDOGS.COM
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me is
co founder and managing partner of School Dogs, and that's
Skool Brandon Womack. So, Brandon, it's going to be great
to talk to you. Thanks for taking some time out today.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Thanks for having me absolutely.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
So let's talk about school Dogs. How did it all begin?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
What?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
First of all, what is school Dogs for those who
never heard of it before?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
So we are an innovative active shooter response canine program.
And what that means is our dogs actually only respond
to the sound of gunfire. Unlike a traditional police dog
in which we teach a dog a bike command, the
dog's actual engagement command is the sound of the gunfire.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Our dogs are training the run through a crowd of people,
crowd of kids running at the dog, and teachers and
staff members running towards the dogs. The dog will navigate
through those individuals and only engage the person shooting the gun.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Wow, So how long have you been around? When was
this all started?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
We started right after the Parkland shooting in twenty eighteen,
where seventeen individuals were killed, and we said to ourselves,
we've been training dogs to do so many different things,
and dogs are such a asset to what we do,
and whether it's policing or military fire and arson, we
use dogs for just about everything.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Now sure yea.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
So we said we have to come up with a
way to protect our kids while they're in school. And
after the Parkland shooting, we said, man, that deputy stood
outside for you know, there's really no accurate number. Some
say twenty seven minutes, some say never in it't the building.
And we said, man, how can we remove the human element,
because as humans, we're thinking about men. You know, my pension,
(01:56):
my husband, my wife, my kids, all these things that
are going on. This dog doesn't think about any of that.
The dog just says, men, every time I found that
person shooting the gun, I got rewarded. I got paid,
whether that was through a tug, whether that was through love,
whether that was through affection, whatever that is, that dog
got paid for that. So with that deputy standing outside
(02:18):
for twenty seven minutes, which is the last account, we said,
we have to do something. Let's remove the human elements
so this dog can just be taken off leash when
that dog's released, he will navigate through the building, through stairways,
through doorways, whatever that may be, and find that person
shooting the gun and go direct to that threat. What's
(02:38):
also nice about our dogs is because they're cone shaped ears,
they don't hear the same echo we hear. So when
we hear that echo in these school buildings, because a
lot of these school buildings are monstering, sure, and it's
hard for us as humans actually decipher was that upstairs, downstairs?
Was that down this hallway or that hallway. The dog
actually doesn't hear that echo like we do. So she's
(03:00):
extremely here. She is extremely direct the threat. And we
know these Milly's Moulin walls, the German shepherds, the shepherds
that we're using, they run anywhere from twenty to thirty
miles per hour.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, they're fast.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
We have a dog extremely So we have a dog
coming that fast at you and either you're going to
do a few things, hopefully the dogs can engage you. Right,
you're going to drop that gun in your run, which
if you do that, we consider that a win. At
the endustry. You stop killing our.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Kids, right, right, So, if you drop.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
That gun and pick off running. Hey both if.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Win win, yeah, we'll take that.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
But if you don't, just understand, are dogs coming at you?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
That's right?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, all right, So let me ask you this, and
this is maybe is a stupid question, but I'll assume
that the dogs are they do they have like a
bulletproof vest on as well to protect them, so the dog.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Section or don't wear bullet ross invest they don't need
to close them down.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
That's yeah, okay them down, Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
So we know that through you know, researching. You know,
when we started this program, we had at that time
about six hundred and seventy two school shootings thatt reresearch,
and we know most of those shooters that are engaging
these in these accents out of our schools are normally
students within that school or have been suitents in that school.
So they're younger, right, So they're not for lack of
(04:23):
better strims, they're not marksmen at target shooting. So you
got to remember there it's about a nine inch target
coming moving at twenty to thirty miles per hour. They're
extremely hard to target. In addition, if they're using a
high powered rifle of some sort, most likely that vest
either may not stop that round or if it does that.
(04:45):
You know, getting hit in a in a bullet resistant
vest with a nine millimeters or forty caliber round is
like a sledgehammer hitting you. So there's a good chance
that dog may not survive even with a vest on,
right right, you know, not tell everybody does fast or
more for knife defense where you're going into a building
and you know, we're worried about the dog being stabbed.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Sure, most of these these shooting cases, these are inexperienced shooters,
and it's hard for even experience shooters to be able
to hit a target going at you know, that's a
problem house.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Per hour, right right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And under stress and nerves and things like that.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
To add to that, sure, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
And also the element of surprise, because as you said,
they're inexperienced shooters, they're just expecting people to be screaming
and running. They're not expecting a powerful dog, a powerful
large dog to come after them out of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Absolutely exactly right. Yes, another element we add to that
in that response era, and we know that most of
our dogs are handled by school resource officers, school police officers,
and they're also going to be delivering around sound arrange
onto target as well, so you know that shooter is
going to that active shooter scenario is either he's gonna
have to target the dog or target the officer that
(05:59):
shooting at him.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
He can't do both, right, right, right?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You know, our goal is to stop that threat as
quickly as possible, and we don't believe there's anything unless
you're putting a line in a school somehow, there's not
much faster than than a dog coming at you at
this point with the amount of training, we of.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Course how and how long does it take to train
a dog to be to be up to I don't
want to say up to speed, but actually ready to
go and do this job.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
So once the hard part is actually finding the right dog.
And I can tell you we we a lot of
times go through thirty forty to fifty dogs sometimes to
find the right dog for the right school, right, okay,
because it's not just a regular dog that we can
import or that we can locate within the United States.
It's you know, we have to look at the demographics
of the school. For instance, we have dogs that are
(06:49):
in pre K three through twelfth grade school, and then
we have some matter in college campuses and high schools.
So that demeanor of the dog needs to change because
I have to be able to take that dog and
introduce him to a three year old or four year
old that's run to the dog and a doggy doggy
doggie and hit the dog in the face, and that
dog has to be like okay, enough.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
And not right, just walk away right right right, No,
that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
That is the hard part. Once we find the actual
perfect dog for the school, that training process is normally
anywhere from ten to fourteen weeks of on ground to
get that dog certified as a certified school dog, and
then we locate the trainer or excuming the handler that's
going to handle the dog. That handler comes to eyeside
(07:37):
our facility and we certify them then as a team
for two to three weeks, and then we go to
their school where the dog's going to work at, and
we're there for two to three weeks to make sure
there's no hiccups that you know, the demographics inside the
school that are seen. There's no external factors that we
need to be concerned with. But you know, the process
from start to finish to obtaining a dog is about
(08:00):
four to six months.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Okay, now that that makes sense. I mean, yeah, I
mean that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
It's like it's like a service dog training about the same.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So then once okay, so now say we go through
the process and then the dog is ready to go
to the school. It's after the six months is the
handler with the dog in the school or the dog
is just they are So there was always like a
handler and the dog in the school.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Absolutely. So there's always a handler and the dog in
the school because kids will do kid things, of course. Yeah,
we believe our dogs are completely safe or kid friendlyders
socialized of course, so a lot of our dogs are
looked at as mascots. They have yearbook photos, they have
sweet yeah, just really a part of the school, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Yeah, yeah, really.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
What we didn't recognize was the ripple effect that you know,
we found, especially for instance, Meadow, which was our first
dog placed in twenty eighteen. You know, that dog had
this ripple effect in which, you know, we had a
student that ended up printing out Meadow T shirts and
Meadow pictures on T shirts and she had shoes with
Meadows picture. And what we found out was that that
(09:12):
young lady was on the spectrum at that point she
was autistic, and what we found was that was her
motivation to come to school each day.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
And you know, you know, with that was like, oh man,
I didn't even think of that as a sure Hipple
effect on. Hey, this was more than just protecting kids.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yes, yes, it's more absolutely and I've heard that about
with other cases. Yeah, and in your case, it's not
just the job of protecting the kids, it's also helping
the kids live their lives too, which is like, oh
my god, it gives me chills. That's so because we
love dogs so much, you know, and they're just so awesome.
It just adds to how awesome they are, which we know, Wow,
(09:53):
that's that's so very cool. So about I mean, is
there approximate of how many schools you actually have the
dogs in at this time?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
So right now we have four dogs deployed, so one
in New Jersey, one in Ohio, one in Florida, and
one in Tennessee. Where our dogs are currently deployed. We're
actually putting Cumberland County Tech, which is in New Jersey,
was our first school dog that we put in place
in twenty eighteen, which is Meadow. Meadow's actually retiring after
this school year, so they're getting their second dog. But
(10:26):
you know that was our initial like, hey, how does
this work? And we've learned so much along the way. Sure,
but that's our four schools, and obviously every time there's
an unfortunate incident, we get a lot of calls from
different schools and different different states asking how does this
program work? And I can tell you now we've had
multiple calls just recently from other schools in Florida and
(10:48):
Tennessee because they're starting to see, hey, these dogs are
out this saw the program works. Sure, it's really an asset,
you know, everybody. And then just to add to that
real fast, our dogs are also trained to find guns
and ammunition. So not only are they reactive right and
effect that if you get something to say on your
(11:09):
safe to Say Something line or or your reporting line,
we can actually deploy the dog to search lockers and
book bags and classrooms and bathrooms and things like that
to be proactive and are approach to making sure our
school campuses are safe.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Sure, sure that Magical knows that that dogs have you know, really,
it's true.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
It's so true.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So now the school where Meadow is going to be retired,
does Meadow get adopted. Does Meadow go with the handler?
Like what happens to Meadow?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Then yes, Meto actually will live a relaxing life this
point full after retirement with their with Steve and there
who's the handler of the dog. Those two have been
partnered up since the very beginning. So you will retire
and live with Steve and his other puppies.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Ah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I love this program, and especially I mean because I
just know every time and I mean you know this
every time. Unfortunately we hear of a school shooting and
then some school district is like, well, I think the
teachers should be armed, and I always think, yeah, I
don't think that's the solution, because you know, not every
teacher is going to be able to be a marksman
(12:16):
or a marxwoman, and they're teaching children, especially with young children,
there's so much to be focused on, and oh suddenly
a teacher is going to be you know, dirty Harry
shooting the shooter.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
Like it doesn't make sense in my head, but this
is like it's a dog.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So the kids will be like, oh, there's a you know,
like you said, it's a mascot. It's a pet for them.
But it's also doing an incredible job. So it's just
like you know, you said, you've been around since twenty eighteen.
I almost feel like, woof, like eureka, why wasn't this
thought of, you know, years and years ago, because it
seems like it's such an easy solution.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
You know it is, And I think a lot of
it is just the getting one the word out that
we exist.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Sure too, there.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Is some like, you know, oh, this dog's only here.
You know, there's a certain stereotype inside schools that hey,
you know, this is a drug dog and this is
you know, to get kids in trouble, and our dogs
aren't made to get kids in trouble and need to
keep them safe.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
See exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
A lot of the political outlook on what we're doing is, oh,
you know, you're bringing in this dogs to find drugs
and to remove students from school. And you know, you
have to reset that a lot in the mentality that
we have right now. And you said it, you know,
let's talk about arming teachers. My mom was a school
teacher for thirty two years, and I can only imagine
if somebody said, you know, to arm her.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Right exactly. It's just so it's ridiculous to me.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I'm sorry, it just, you know, like a teacher's job
is hectic and is exactly is to educate, not to
play police officer. Like it just doesn't make sense. And
every time I hear it, I'm like, you got to
be kidding me. You know, they don't need another, you know,
another thing to take on, especially with little kids, because
that's like a you know. So I just feel like
(14:01):
this is such a win win. Okay, so more process.
If a school is listening right now and is interested,
So I assume that there's a cost to this, correct
to the training and to Okay, so let's talk about
that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, absolutely, so to discuss the cost. So for right
around thirty thousand dollars is our total cost for the dog,
the full training, the certification, training for the handler, for
us to actually deliver the dogs. So we don't let
the handle leave with the dog. After their training, they
normally fly back to their school and then a few
days later we drive the dog to them with a
(14:37):
team of two or three people and we go through
the gunfired rules on their school campus. We have the
assemblies with kids, so we spend two to three weeks
on ground at their school to make sure they're good.
In addition, they have everything they need from day one.
They don't have to go out and go to a
pet store or go on Amazon and find anything for
(15:02):
that dog. When they leave us and we deliver that dog,
the dog has callers, best, great pinnels, right, dog food.
I mean, they've got a clean bill of health from
the deck.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Now what's also nice is we guarantee our dogs for
five year workability automatically. So for some reason, four years
and three hundred and sixty two days later, your dog
decides he doesn't want to or hear she does not
want to work anymore and scared a gun fire, we
will actually replace that dog free of charge.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Wow, okay, yeah, I mean because yeah, that.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Dog, Yeah, ever killed in the line of duty, we
replaced that dog one hundred percent. It could be year
seven Meadows in year seven. Now, if Metal would get
hurt or injured and killed in the line of duty,
we will replace Meadows one hundred percent free of charge,
no cost to the district.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Right right now, you.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Look at that absolutely so thirty thousand dollars over the
life span of the dog. You know, we're seeing these
dogs you know, Meadow's going to retire. She's going to
be nine, right, because when we first started the program,
that was the dog we got I think the dog
was probably I think Metal was about two when we
actually implemented her into the program, right, right, So this
is her seventh school year, so she's good. She's either nine,
(16:14):
are going to be nine? I can't remember.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Yeah, yeah, she's.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, it's time for her to retire and just enjoy
the rest of her life exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, so that's kind of how our program works.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, No, I think it's I think it's wonderful and
I mean, of course, and it's also you know, when
you think about thirty thousand dollars, but you think about
how many kids are in the school, and you know,
for school to do the division, and what the protection
is and over the years and how many years, I mean,
it just comes out to not really that much money
when you think about it that way.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Absolutely, And we you know, whenever Metal went in, we
looked at, okay, what's the cost look like it? You know, yearly,
that cost is you know, right around twenty five hundred bucks.
That's the certification, the vet care, the dog food, right,
you know, so and you kept paradox of putting another
officer on campus where you know you're going to be
at fifty sixty seventy depending on the school year, school district, right,
(17:06):
fifty sixty seventy thousand dollars a year for that officer
plus health benefits four oh one K workers' compensation. Day
are vacation. The dog doesn't take vacation. The dogs always
seem to work because this is what the dogs love
to do, exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
There's no sick days. I mean, for the most part,
the dog's there every day of the school year without
too much, and you don't have the gripe of it
of the dog. The dog just loves it being there
and interacting. And you know, we make sure before that
dog's employed that he's got that social ability so he knows, hey,
every day, this is what I get to do. Right,
And most of our dogs enjoy that aspect of what
they do.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, for sure, I mean that's the that's the basics
about dogs. They love having a job. So you know,
all these dogs have a job. I just think it's
such a wonderful program. It just seems so it seems
so simple. You know, when you when you break it
down and you you have services for dogs throughout the country.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Correct, Like, if somebody's.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Listening right now in you know, North Carolina, they can
reach out to you and say, hey, I have a
you know, I work, I have a school in North Carolina.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Absolutely. As I said before, we were actually in Florida, Tennessee,
New Jersey, Ohio. Four dogs are now. No, that's talking
about anywhere in the country. We can supply the doll
you know, it may take us a little bit longer
drive than like California or something, but you know, we
always hand deliver the dolls. We never put them in
a crate or throw them on a plane because you know,
we want to make sure they are safely and sure
(18:29):
to drive there without a problem.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Wow, this is fascinating and it's just I think it's
just so wonderful. So Brandon, So the purpose of this
of our discussion is to get people to be aware
of school dogs. So I know, because you have a
great website that explains everything out. Uh So for someone
who's listening, who is you know, works in a school
or a school district or a council, you should go
(18:53):
You can go to school. And that's s k o
o ldogs dot com. Uh is it better for them
to go through your website or to call or both either?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
What's the best way?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
You know? Either works. I always like to direct some
people to our website. The reason is there's a lot
of information on our website.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Yes, yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Know, they get to see the pictures and there's some
links and they can actually get to see some of
the videos. So absolutely check out the website. But as always,
if there's any specific questions, feel free to give a call.
And our actual numbers actually excuse me eight three three
K nine school that's skoo l and that rings right
to our cell phones if we're not in the office,
(19:32):
and if we don't answer, we'll give you a call
right back. Leave a message.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
That's so perfect.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Well, Brandon Wollmac, thank you for thank you for talking
about school dogs and for being you know, a co founder,
because it really is.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
It's a wonderful organization.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I was.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I'm so happy that I was put in touch with
you to talk to you and so I can educ
I'm educated about you and my listeners can be as well.
So keep doing what you are doing because you know
you are saving lives and and it's really it's a
very important thing because you know, it's I don't have
to tell you the whole process, I mean not process,
(20:07):
but the whole aspect of going to school and thinking, oh,
you know, your child might not come home like we
didn't have that when we were in school, you know,
and I just it's mind boggling to me. So you know,
there is always a solution to problems in this world,
and you are making solutions and making things happen.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
So thank you for that, Brandon.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Absolutely, thank you for having me today.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Absolutely
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me is
co founder and managing partner of School Dogs, and that's
Skool Brandon Womack. So, Brandon, it's going to be great
to talk to you. Thanks for taking some time out today.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Thanks for having me absolutely.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
So let's talk about school Dogs. How did it all begin?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
What?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
First of all, what is school Dogs for those who
never heard of it before?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
So we are an innovative active shooter response canine program.
And what that means is our dogs actually only respond
to the sound of gunfire. Unlike a traditional police dog
in which we teach a dog a bike command, the
dog's actual engagement command is the sound of the gunfire.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Our dogs are training the run through a crowd of people,
crowd of kids running at the dog, and teachers and
staff members running towards the dogs. The dog will navigate
through those individuals and only engage the person shooting the gun.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Wow, So how long have you been around? When was
this all started?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
We started right after the Parkland shooting in twenty eighteen,
where seventeen individuals were killed, and we said to ourselves,
we've been training dogs to do so many different things,
and dogs are such a asset to what we do,
and whether it's policing or military fire and arson, we
use dogs for just about everything.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Now sure yea.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
So we said we have to come up with a
way to protect our kids while they're in school. And
after the Parkland shooting, we said, man, that deputy stood
outside for you know, there's really no accurate number. Some
say twenty seven minutes, some say never in it't the building.
And we said, man, how can we remove the human element,
because as humans, we're thinking about men. You know, my pension,
(01:56):
my husband, my wife, my kids, all these things that
are going on. This dog doesn't think about any of that.
The dog just says, men, every time I found that
person shooting the gun, I got rewarded. I got paid,
whether that was through a tug, whether that was through love,
whether that was through affection, whatever that is, that dog
got paid for that. So with that deputy standing outside
(02:18):
for twenty seven minutes, which is the last account, we said,
we have to do something. Let's remove the human elements
so this dog can just be taken off leash when
that dog's released, he will navigate through the building, through stairways,
through doorways, whatever that may be, and find that person
shooting the gun and go direct to that threat. What's
(02:38):
also nice about our dogs is because they're cone shaped ears,
they don't hear the same echo we hear. So when
we hear that echo in these school buildings, because a
lot of these school buildings are monstering, sure, and it's
hard for us as humans actually decipher was that upstairs, downstairs?
Was that down this hallway or that hallway. The dog
actually doesn't hear that echo like we do. So she's
(03:00):
extremely here. She is extremely direct the threat. And we
know these Milly's Moulin walls, the German shepherds, the shepherds
that we're using, they run anywhere from twenty to thirty
miles per hour.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, they're fast.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
We have a dog extremely So we have a dog
coming that fast at you and either you're going to
do a few things, hopefully the dogs can engage you. Right,
you're going to drop that gun in your run, which
if you do that, we consider that a win. At
the endustry. You stop killing our.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Kids, right, right, So, if you drop.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
That gun and pick off running. Hey both if.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Win win, yeah, we'll take that.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
But if you don't, just understand, are dogs coming at you?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
That's right?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, all right, So let me ask you this, and
this is maybe is a stupid question, but I'll assume
that the dogs are they do they have like a
bulletproof vest on as well to protect them, so the dog.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Section or don't wear bullet ross invest they don't need
to close them down.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
That's yeah, okay them down, Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
So we know that through you know, researching. You know,
when we started this program, we had at that time
about six hundred and seventy two school shootings thatt reresearch,
and we know most of those shooters that are engaging
these in these accents out of our schools are normally
students within that school or have been suitents in that school.
So they're younger, right, So they're not for lack of
(04:23):
better strims, they're not marksmen at target shooting. So you
got to remember there it's about a nine inch target
coming moving at twenty to thirty miles per hour. They're
extremely hard to target. In addition, if they're using a
high powered rifle of some sort, most likely that vest
either may not stop that round or if it does that.
(04:45):
You know, getting hit in a in a bullet resistant
vest with a nine millimeters or forty caliber round is
like a sledgehammer hitting you. So there's a good chance
that dog may not survive even with a vest on,
right right, you know, not tell everybody does fast or
more for knife defense where you're going into a building
and you know, we're worried about the dog being stabbed.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Sure, most of these these shooting cases, these are inexperienced shooters,
and it's hard for even experience shooters to be able
to hit a target going at you know, that's a
problem house.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Per hour, right right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And under stress and nerves and things like that.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
To add to that, sure, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
And also the element of surprise, because as you said,
they're inexperienced shooters, they're just expecting people to be screaming
and running. They're not expecting a powerful dog, a powerful
large dog to come after them out of nowhere.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Absolutely exactly right. Yes, another element we add to that
in that response era, and we know that most of
our dogs are handled by school resource officers, school police officers,
and they're also going to be delivering around sound arrange
onto target as well, so you know that shooter is
going to that active shooter scenario is either he's gonna
have to target the dog or target the officer that
(05:59):
shooting at him.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
He can't do both, right, right, right?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You know, our goal is to stop that threat as
quickly as possible, and we don't believe there's anything unless
you're putting a line in a school somehow, there's not
much faster than than a dog coming at you at
this point with the amount of training, we of.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Course how and how long does it take to train
a dog to be to be up to I don't
want to say up to speed, but actually ready to
go and do this job.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
So once the hard part is actually finding the right dog.
And I can tell you we we a lot of
times go through thirty forty to fifty dogs sometimes to
find the right dog for the right school, right, okay,
because it's not just a regular dog that we can
import or that we can locate within the United States.
It's you know, we have to look at the demographics
of the school. For instance, we have dogs that are
(06:49):
in pre K three through twelfth grade school, and then
we have some matter in college campuses and high schools.
So that demeanor of the dog needs to change because
I have to be able to take that dog and
introduce him to a three year old or four year
old that's run to the dog and a doggy doggy
doggie and hit the dog in the face, and that
dog has to be like okay, enough.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
And not right, just walk away right right right, No,
that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
That is the hard part. Once we find the actual
perfect dog for the school, that training process is normally
anywhere from ten to fourteen weeks of on ground to
get that dog certified as a certified school dog, and
then we locate the trainer or excuming the handler that's
going to handle the dog. That handler comes to eyeside
(07:37):
our facility and we certify them then as a team
for two to three weeks, and then we go to
their school where the dog's going to work at, and
we're there for two to three weeks to make sure
there's no hiccups that you know, the demographics inside the
school that are seen. There's no external factors that we
need to be concerned with. But you know, the process
from start to finish to obtaining a dog is about
(08:00):
four to six months.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Okay, now that that makes sense. I mean, yeah, I
mean that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
It's like it's like a service dog training about the same.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So then once okay, so now say we go through
the process and then the dog is ready to go
to the school. It's after the six months is the
handler with the dog in the school or the dog
is just they are So there was always like a
handler and the dog in the school.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Absolutely. So there's always a handler and the dog in
the school because kids will do kid things, of course. Yeah,
we believe our dogs are completely safe or kid friendlyders
socialized of course, so a lot of our dogs are
looked at as mascots. They have yearbook photos, they have
sweet yeah, just really a part of the school, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
Yeah, yeah, really.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
What we didn't recognize was the ripple effect that you know,
we found, especially for instance, Meadow, which was our first
dog placed in twenty eighteen. You know, that dog had
this ripple effect in which, you know, we had a
student that ended up printing out Meadow T shirts and
Meadow pictures on T shirts and she had shoes with
Meadows picture. And what we found out was that that
(09:12):
young lady was on the spectrum at that point she
was autistic, and what we found was that was her
motivation to come to school each day.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
And you know, you know, with that was like, oh man,
I didn't even think of that as a sure Hipple
effect on. Hey, this was more than just protecting kids.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yes, yes, it's more absolutely and I've heard that about
with other cases. Yeah, and in your case, it's not
just the job of protecting the kids, it's also helping
the kids live their lives too, which is like, oh
my god, it gives me chills. That's so because we
love dogs so much, you know, and they're just so awesome.
It just adds to how awesome they are, which we know, Wow,
(09:53):
that's that's so very cool. So about I mean, is
there approximate of how many schools you actually have the
dogs in at this time?
Speaker 3 (10:02):
So right now we have four dogs deployed, so one
in New Jersey, one in Ohio, one in Florida, and
one in Tennessee. Where our dogs are currently deployed. We're
actually putting Cumberland County Tech, which is in New Jersey,
was our first school dog that we put in place
in twenty eighteen, which is Meadow. Meadow's actually retiring after
this school year, so they're getting their second dog. But
(10:26):
you know that was our initial like, hey, how does
this work? And we've learned so much along the way. Sure,
but that's our four schools, and obviously every time there's
an unfortunate incident, we get a lot of calls from
different schools and different different states asking how does this
program work? And I can tell you now we've had
multiple calls just recently from other schools in Florida and
(10:48):
Tennessee because they're starting to see, hey, these dogs are
out this saw the program works. Sure, it's really an asset,
you know, everybody. And then just to add to that
real fast, our dogs are also trained to find guns
and ammunition. So not only are they reactive right and
effect that if you get something to say on your
(11:09):
safe to Say Something line or or your reporting line,
we can actually deploy the dog to search lockers and
book bags and classrooms and bathrooms and things like that
to be proactive and are approach to making sure our
school campuses are safe.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Sure, sure that Magical knows that that dogs have you know, really,
it's true.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
It's so true.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
So now the school where Meadow is going to be retired,
does Meadow get adopted. Does Meadow go with the handler?
Like what happens to Meadow?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Then yes, Meto actually will live a relaxing life this
point full after retirement with their with Steve and there
who's the handler of the dog. Those two have been
partnered up since the very beginning. So you will retire
and live with Steve and his other puppies.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Ah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I love this program, and especially I mean because I
just know every time and I mean you know this
every time. Unfortunately we hear of a school shooting and
then some school district is like, well, I think the
teachers should be armed, and I always think, yeah, I
don't think that's the solution, because you know, not every
teacher is going to be able to be a marksman
(12:16):
or a marxwoman, and they're teaching children, especially with young children,
there's so much to be focused on, and oh suddenly
a teacher is going to be you know, dirty Harry
shooting the shooter.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
Like it doesn't make sense in my head, but this
is like it's a dog.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So the kids will be like, oh, there's a you know,
like you said, it's a mascot. It's a pet for them.
But it's also doing an incredible job. So it's just
like you know, you said, you've been around since twenty eighteen.
I almost feel like, woof, like eureka, why wasn't this
thought of, you know, years and years ago, because it
seems like it's such an easy solution.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
You know it is, And I think a lot of
it is just the getting one the word out that
we exist.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Sure too, there.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Is some like, you know, oh, this dog's only here.
You know, there's a certain stereotype inside schools that hey,
you know, this is a drug dog and this is
you know, to get kids in trouble, and our dogs
aren't made to get kids in trouble and need to
keep them safe.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
See exactly.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
A lot of the political outlook on what we're doing is, oh,
you know, you're bringing in this dogs to find drugs
and to remove students from school. And you know, you
have to reset that a lot in the mentality that
we have right now. And you said it, you know,
let's talk about arming teachers. My mom was a school
teacher for thirty two years, and I can only imagine
if somebody said, you know, to arm her.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Right exactly. It's just so it's ridiculous to me.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
I'm sorry, it just, you know, like a teacher's job
is hectic and is exactly is to educate, not to
play police officer. Like it just doesn't make sense. And
every time I hear it, I'm like, you got to
be kidding me. You know, they don't need another, you know,
another thing to take on, especially with little kids, because
that's like a you know. So I just feel like
(14:01):
this is such a win win. Okay, so more process.
If a school is listening right now and is interested,
So I assume that there's a cost to this, correct
to the training and to Okay, so let's talk about
that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, absolutely, so to discuss the cost. So for right
around thirty thousand dollars is our total cost for the dog,
the full training, the certification, training for the handler, for
us to actually deliver the dogs. So we don't let
the handle leave with the dog. After their training, they
normally fly back to their school and then a few
days later we drive the dog to them with a
(14:37):
team of two or three people and we go through
the gunfired rules on their school campus. We have the
assemblies with kids, so we spend two to three weeks
on ground at their school to make sure they're good.
In addition, they have everything they need from day one.
They don't have to go out and go to a
pet store or go on Amazon and find anything for
(15:02):
that dog. When they leave us and we deliver that dog,
the dog has callers, best, great pinnels, right, dog food.
I mean, they've got a clean bill of health from
the deck.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Now what's also nice is we guarantee our dogs for
five year workability automatically. So for some reason, four years
and three hundred and sixty two days later, your dog
decides he doesn't want to or hear she does not
want to work anymore and scared a gun fire, we
will actually replace that dog free of charge.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Wow, okay, yeah, I mean because yeah, that.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Dog, Yeah, ever killed in the line of duty, we
replaced that dog one hundred percent. It could be year
seven Meadows in year seven. Now, if Metal would get
hurt or injured and killed in the line of duty,
we will replace Meadows one hundred percent free of charge,
no cost to the district.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Right right now, you.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Look at that absolutely so thirty thousand dollars over the
life span of the dog. You know, we're seeing these
dogs you know, Meadow's going to retire. She's going to
be nine, right, because when we first started the program,
that was the dog we got I think the dog
was probably I think Metal was about two when we
actually implemented her into the program, right, right, So this
is her seventh school year, so she's good. She's either nine,
(16:14):
are going to be nine? I can't remember.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Yeah, yeah, she's.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, it's time for her to retire and just enjoy
the rest of her life exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, so that's kind of how our program works.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, No, I think it's I think it's wonderful and
I mean, of course, and it's also you know, when
you think about thirty thousand dollars, but you think about
how many kids are in the school, and you know,
for school to do the division, and what the protection
is and over the years and how many years, I mean,
it just comes out to not really that much money
when you think about it that way.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Absolutely, And we you know, whenever Metal went in, we
looked at, okay, what's the cost look like it? You know, yearly,
that cost is you know, right around twenty five hundred bucks.
That's the certification, the vet care, the dog food, right,
you know, so and you kept paradox of putting another
officer on campus where you know you're going to be
at fifty sixty seventy depending on the school year, school district, right,
(17:06):
fifty sixty seventy thousand dollars a year for that officer
plus health benefits four oh one K workers' compensation. Day
are vacation. The dog doesn't take vacation. The dogs always
seem to work because this is what the dogs love
to do, exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
There's no sick days. I mean, for the most part,
the dog's there every day of the school year without
too much, and you don't have the gripe of it
of the dog. The dog just loves it being there
and interacting. And you know, we make sure before that
dog's employed that he's got that social ability so he knows, hey,
every day, this is what I get to do. Right,
And most of our dogs enjoy that aspect of what
they do.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, for sure, I mean that's the that's the basics
about dogs. They love having a job. So you know,
all these dogs have a job. I just think it's
such a wonderful program. It just seems so it seems
so simple. You know, when you when you break it
down and you you have services for dogs throughout the country.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Correct, Like, if somebody's.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Listening right now in you know, North Carolina, they can
reach out to you and say, hey, I have a
you know, I work, I have a school in North Carolina.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Absolutely. As I said before, we were actually in Florida, Tennessee,
New Jersey, Ohio. Four dogs are now. No, that's talking
about anywhere in the country. We can supply the doll
you know, it may take us a little bit longer
drive than like California or something, but you know, we
always hand deliver the dolls. We never put them in
a crate or throw them on a plane because you know,
we want to make sure they are safely and sure
(18:29):
to drive there without a problem.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Wow, this is fascinating and it's just I think it's
just so wonderful. So Brandon, So the purpose of this
of our discussion is to get people to be aware
of school dogs. So I know, because you have a
great website that explains everything out. Uh So for someone
who's listening, who is you know, works in a school
or a school district or a council, you should go
(18:53):
You can go to school. And that's s k o
o ldogs dot com. Uh is it better for them
to go through your website or to call or both either?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
What's the best way?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
You know? Either works. I always like to direct some
people to our website. The reason is there's a lot
of information on our website.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Yes, yeah, you.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Know, they get to see the pictures and there's some
links and they can actually get to see some of
the videos. So absolutely check out the website. But as always,
if there's any specific questions, feel free to give a call.
And our actual numbers actually excuse me eight three three
K nine school that's skoo l and that rings right
to our cell phones if we're not in the office,
(19:32):
and if we don't answer, we'll give you a call
right back. Leave a message.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
That's so perfect.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Well, Brandon Wollmac, thank you for thank you for talking
about school dogs and for being you know, a co founder,
because it really is.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
It's a wonderful organization.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I was.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I'm so happy that I was put in touch with
you to talk to you and so I can educ
I'm educated about you and my listeners can be as well.
So keep doing what you are doing because you know
you are saving lives and and it's really it's a
very important thing because you know, it's I don't have
to tell you the whole process, I mean not process,
(20:07):
but the whole aspect of going to school and thinking, oh,
you know, your child might not come home like we
didn't have that when we were in school, you know,
and I just it's mind boggling to me. So you know,
there is always a solution to problems in this world,
and you are making solutions and making things happen.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
So thank you for that, Brandon.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Absolutely, thank you for having me today.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Absolutely
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