June 2, 2025 • 25 mins
Maria chats with Jim Kessler, Director of Instruction and Training at The Seeing Eye in Morristown NJ.
The Seeing Eye has been training and providing dogs to people since 1929, and celebrated their 95th Anniversary last year!
Give a listen and learn all about this amazing organization.
You can volunteer, donate, or other ways you can help: SEEINGEYE.ORG.
The Seeing Eye has been training and providing dogs to people since 1929, and celebrated their 95th Anniversary last year!
Give a listen and learn all about this amazing organization.
You can volunteer, donate, or other ways you can help: SEEINGEYE.ORG.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's Maria's MUDs and Stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me today
is Jim Kessler, who is the director of Instructions and
Training at the Seeing Eye in Marstown, New Jersey. So
thank you so much, Jim. I know I've been such
a big fan of the Seeing I for so many years,
and I'm just so happy that you and I ran
(00:32):
into each other late last year and now I can
talk to you about the organization. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, happy to be here. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, So I and I didn't realize it because I
feel like I grew up knowing about the Seeing Eye
and I just I was looking on your website. You've
been around since nineteen twenty nine. Last year was the
ninety fifth anniversary. That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah. We were the first school, first school in the world.
Uh huh, had over eighteen thousand, five hundred partnerships.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Since we were created in nineteen twenty nine. Approximately, we
have about fifteen hundred active students. And what I mean
by active students are individuals who are using names Seeing
on our dogs currently and we serve We served the
entire North America, so the United States and Canada. So
we have students who come and are trained here on
(01:27):
our property in Morristown, New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Right right, I mean that's incredible. How did it all
begin way back when in nineteen twenty nine?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Oh, it started back in nineteen twenty nine with the
two big names that are familiar with our history and
are founding are both Morris Frank and Dorothy Harrison Eustace.
Dorothy was a She was from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She was
(01:55):
very in tune and loved the German shepherd as breed.
Morris Frank travels to they They, Switzerland and is trained
with the first seeing eye dog named named Buddy. The
original name was Kiss, and he decided he didn't want
to have a dog named Kiss, so he changed dogs Buddy,
(02:17):
and all his dogs and all his dogs after that
were named Buddy. Oh wow, okay, yeah. Both Morris Frank
and Dorothy they you know, what they did pretty much
started the entire guide dog movement worldwide. And the efforts
that they put in are what are what are graduates
are a direct result of what our graduates get today
by coming to the C and I getting pared getting
(02:39):
matched to one of our dogs.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Sure, so okay, So tell me what is a day
in the life for you Jim Kestler Like, how does
your day start? What is what does it entail for you?
With the Seeing Eye dog.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I started my career here twenty four years ago. I
started as an as an apprentice, or there's when you
become and when you become an instructor, you start you
have a three year apprenticeship that you learn. It's all
on the job training. Like I came from a completely
different background. Oh, I used to work in New York City.
Were used to work in New York City. I had
(03:14):
no dog training experience, yeah, pet dogs and I was
growing up. I had no dog training experience. So you
learn everything here on the job, everything about dogs, training,
working with students. So, and my job now as director
of the department is you know, we have twenty five instructors.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
That and we have five teams, five teams of five instructors.
And these instructors are all at different stages. So it
takes four months to train one of our dogs to
become a guide being matched with somebody, so in they're
reaching different stages of the train. They're in the first
month of training, second month, third month, and fourth month
(03:57):
of training. And people are surprised when I say, okay,
it takes People ask, oh, I want to take the
train of dog a year, and I said, oh, it
takes four months, and people are people are surprised at
that that it takes such a short period of time
because you know, these dogs have a very difficult job.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Sure, that's a big job, big responsibility.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, I think I think I think collectively, uh, if
you take all the jobs a dog can have, I
think this is the most difficult job the doll can have,
just be responsibility. Sure, and the pressure that these dogs,
of course feel.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Sure I get that.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So yeah, so and I kind of not a kind
of I did. I got off the question that you
initially asked.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh no, it's okay. Yeah, yeah, no, this is great.
This is great because you're really giving us a slice
into the life of what goes on for you as
a trainer, but also what goes into making a dog
into a seeing eye dog, which you know is a
big responsibility for the dog because basically it's guiding and
(04:59):
safe being someone's life. You know, there's a lot of
decisions that that dog has to make so I get it.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, yeah, and you know we have you know, as
an organization, our success rate is close it's in sixty percent.
So it's and that's uh, that's that's good for uh standard,
you know, industry wide. Sure, you know, not every dog
can not every dog is cut out to do this.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
The sixty Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
We breed all our own dogs here. We have you know,
we have a breeding facility and we have a we
have a you know, veterinary staff. We have full time
geneticists on staff.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh wow, Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
People ask, you know, yeah, people ask why do you
why do you breathe your own dogs? And it's it's
for we have we're able to control, We're able to
control comperment. Yeah, so it's it's a you know, before
I got into this line of work, Marie, I was
you know, I didn't I had no idea what was
involved in it. You know, there's a there's a lot
(06:02):
that goes into it. I mean, so you have you
have a dog, a dog is trained to be a
guide and somebody who someone who's blind, and there's certain
things you have to think about, Yeah, think about when
you're going into matching person. Okay, and the two things
(06:23):
that are really most important to us or pace and pull.
Me mean, how fast does the individual want to walk
and how much pole do they want to feel on
hardess harness. So, and what I mean by the harness
is it's what dogs wear and it's the information. It's
communication device between dog and handler. Correct, get to feel
lateral moves, left, lateral moves to the right, speed up,
slow down, they're able to feel that. So in our
(06:46):
line of work, pace and pull are two most important things.
And then you look at the lifestyle of the individual
and what they do on a daily basis, and you
make a match based on this these certain characteristics of
dog in person to get the best match that you
can correct every time. Now, we're not you know, we
(07:08):
make mistakes, but you know that's the it happens.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It happens, of course, but that's that's human nature and
that's just life. I mean, yeah, yeah, it can't be
one accurate all the time because you're not you're not
a fortune teller, you know, who's to know?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
No, not exactly exactly. Yeah, So its how the process works.
And I'll just go to a little more detail about
So we every every month of the Seeing Eye. We
have what we call a class and what and what
that basically means is we have students from all over
North America come to the Seeing Eye to be trained
with a Seeing Eye dog. So these students can either
(07:46):
be individuals who've had dogs before they're coming back to
get a successor dogs. So there are returning students. Then
we have students that have never had a dog before.
So they come here campus and if they're returning students,
they spend eighteen days. If they're a new student, they
spend twenty five days. So and they're trained, so they
(08:07):
live here on campus, they have their own room. We
are able to really start the foundation build the relationship
between the dog and the person. It's you know, is
everything perfect after a month, No, but you you've laid
the groundwork. So they come here to campus and they
spend this time here and really it's it's a busy
(08:29):
day for them. They're up at five thirty in the
morning and they're you know, taking care of the dog,
taking the dog out, feeding the dog. They have trips
that they have to do with their instructor in the morning,
a trip in the afternoon, and throughout the entire process
they're learning things that are pertinent to guide you know,
(08:50):
guide dog mobility. Sure, and it's a it's a great
thing to watch. I've been doing this for twenty four
years and it never gets never gets tiring to me.
To you know, see students who you know, they come
in on the first day, they're just meeting their dog,
and then they leave after eighteen or twenty five days,
and you see the relationship that's built between the dog
(09:10):
and the person, right, and it's just it's great. I'm
sure it's great to watch.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
It has to be heartwarming for you too, because you're
part of that process.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Oh no, agreed, Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I'm sure. I know from you know, talking to organizations
that supply service dogs to veterans with PTSD, and I
feel it's it's probably the same exact thing for someone
who doesn't have their sight that these dogs give them
their life and give you know, the dog gives its life,
but it makes people who do things that they would
(09:44):
be limited to do, and so they get to live
their life every day because of the dog, which is
like phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yea, yeah, I mean I trained a gentleman and he
and I've known them. I known for a long time,
and he said to me, wasn't for my seeing eye dog,
I would not have I would not be the person
I am today. Sure, and it's it's great.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, and that must you know, it gives me a
chill to hear it. Just but I can imagine how
it must make you feel being so involved in that
whole process. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah. So for someone who's listening and you know, thinking
about needing a seeing eye dog, how would how would
the process how would they start the process with the
seeing eye.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, so they would have to they fill out an
application to you know, to apply, and there's you know,
the application, and there's certain requirements that we require along
with the application, and you know, one thing that's required
is each of our each of our students have to
(10:53):
have orientation of mobility. And what orientation mobility is is
it's using a way using a king. So I mean
you can either you can either use a dog or
you can use a kne and there's differences between both,
but you have to have those orientational mobility skills because
they're applicable to your when you when you're using a
(11:15):
same eye dog. So you fill out, you fill out
the application and you know, just say, you fill out
the application and you get accepted. Part of the process
is we have an instructor come to their home environment
and they do it in person interview. So you may ask, okay,
(11:37):
what do you do with the in person interview? So
as an instructor, it gives us the opportunity to see
where the individual lives, what their lifestyle is like. But
even more importantly, it gives us an opportunity to do
a Juno walk. The instructor pretends to be a dog,
(11:58):
meaning they take a harness and they walk with the
individual to get one how much pole they want to
feel in the harness? And two what speed they want
to walk? Like I mentioned earlier, pay and pull the
important criteria. Yeah, because the last thing we want to
do is an organization, is give the dog that's too
fast or slow or shows too little or pulls too much.
(12:20):
Of course, so we do general walk and that also
gives us the opportunity to see how the individual you know,
follows a lot like how do they follow lateral moves?
Do they follow lateral moves? The lateral moves, the left
lateral moves to light, how do they do how they
do when they're following the harness. So it's important criteria
that we as an instructor gauge from this junal walk.
(12:43):
So we go and we assess them in their home environment.
Stay okay, We get all the information we need from it,
and then when they're accepted into when they get accepted,
that's when the process begins when we start looking for
a match for them. So each month, like I said,
a group of students from North America come to campus,
(13:05):
comes to Morristown, New Jersey, and they're trained with their dog,
and we have we have a class every month of
the year. So January through December we have a class
on campus. And then another thing I failed to mention
is that you know we are we're a nonprofit organization. Yeah,
we we don't rely on any funding from you know,
(13:28):
the government, nor do we've any funding from the state.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It's all it's all donations funding.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It's all donations. And the cost of a cost of
a Seeing Eye dog is approximately from costs to create
each partnership is seventy five thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, yeah, I figured that. Yeah, that's that's that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, there's a lot of money. Yeah. And since nineteen
thirty three and we haven't changed this. The cost the
cost for a cost for one of our students is
one hundred and fifty dollars for the first time and
fifty dollars for you turning student. Amazing, and since and
since nineteen forty one, we charge one dollar for veterans. Wow,
(14:16):
and that hasn't changed. That hasn't changed.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Since nineteen forty one. That's a long time. Yeah, that's
a long time.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's the symbol for us. It's it's
they they have they have some ownership in this. They
they you know, they you know, paid this fee and
it's its ownership then. And that's one thing too about
the Seeing Eye is when our graduates graduate and leave
our students, they have full ownership of the dog, right,
So it's their dog. So we as an organization, you know,
(14:45):
that's we don't we don't retain ownership of the dog
once you'll graduate that you still all the requirements, right,
they have full ownership of the dog. And I failed
to mention too pres the dogs, the breeds that we
use are Labradors, Golden Retriever and German shepherds, and we
cross a lab in Golden to get a cross breed, right,
But those are those are the three predomintered breeds that
(15:07):
we use.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I was gonna say, is there a reason, but it's
it just seems like those are the working dogs that
seem that that can handle it, right.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
And somebody asked me, like somebody asked me, is like,
why don't you use a husky? You know, you know,
it's it's the three breeds that we use, the lab
Golden and the shepherds. They they're the breeds that are
you know, we feel, you know, that's best success.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, and that's what you would go by. Yeah, I
mean why would you. It's like if you have a
product that works, right, if you were a manufacturer of
a product, why would you change up your product if
it works well and it works for people, right, So
you know it makes sense. No, it makes sense. And
I know that, you know, I mean, I do know
this obviously. And I saw it also on your website
(15:52):
that people can volunteer to raise the puppies. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah? Yeah, you're onred correct, and the puppy raisers are
They're a huge, huge part of our mission at the
Seeing Eye. So approximately five hundred puppies are born each
year at the Seeing Eye. And what happens is that
these puppies are born and you know, eight weeks of age,
(16:17):
these volunt these families, these puppy raising families volunteer their
services and their time, energy love to raise these puppies
and they get them. They get the dogs about eight
weeks of age and then they come back to the
Seeing Eye and they're approximately say thirteen fourteen. These puppy
is they put all the hard work in their house,
(16:38):
breaking the dogs, the teaching the dog basic deedas and
they're also they're also getting these dogs out into socializing them,
getting them out into the real world to see how
they react to certain things. And what happens is in
different geographic area and geographic areas there is a club.
So you belong to a club of puppy raisers. Guys
(17:00):
meet weekly or you know every other week. And then
they do outings where they go to see they go
to New York City. And this is all important information
for us because these families will fill out a report
for their puppies saying and as when they come back
to going to instruction. In the training instructors look at
(17:22):
these reports and they get notes from these families showing
certain things that the dog reacted to and just important,
very important information for us when we go into the
training of the dogs. And I used to say, if
it wasn't for the puppy raisers, our ability to carry
our mission would be very difficult. It would pretty much
be impossible because the families the selfless dedication to the
(17:45):
organization by raising these puppies, right, and then at you know,
thirteen fourteen months, we're saying, okay, thanks, we're going to
take the dog back. But what a lot of these
families do is they repeat razors. So they raise a
dog and then the raise.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Another one one. Yeah, now, that's amazing, you need them.
That's that's the whole start. So of course that makes sense.
And I'm sorry because I'm not sure I heard it
on my end, right, maybe not on yours. But when
you said that they go from eight weeks and then
they bring them back to you, what was the time
period on that, because on my end to cut out.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Oh, it was approximately thirteen to fourteen months of age.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
They come out Oh okay, wow, so they have Yeah,
so they have that puppy for like almost a year.
There's a lot of stuff they could do. Yeah, that's
pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, our family, my family, we've raised a puppy and
it was it was a great experience for my kids.
I'm sure still you know, they still talk about it. Yeah,
and you know, you're doing something, you're doing something for
the greater good by of course you raising this dog
that in turn will eventually become a same I dog, right,
And I.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Would think that knowing that you're doing such a good
deed is bigger than oh no, I'm sad because we
have to give the dog back, right, But the bigger
the bigger picture.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, you know, but you're right, you're right. I mean
there's still a lot of you know. What happens is
so the the dog comes back and goes through it's
four month of train four months of training, and then
at the end of like probably about close to the
end of the end of the fourth month, if the
dog made it, If the dog made it, and it's
(19:19):
going to be matched or yeah, it's going to be
potentially matched. The family comes in. The family comes and
observes the dog working with the instructors. They get they
get the Yeah, they get the the end result, which
is great, and there's oh yeah, there's tears chick of.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Course, but of course because they're but they're part of
the process. It's like they get they get to see
the child graduate, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Oh yeah, yeah, and then you know, and the puppy
raisers is there's there's there's a shortage and it's it's
worldwide shortage of puppy raisers. And it seemed ever since COVID,
ever since COVID, really okay, decline and puppy raisers, and
it's huge. It's it's a huge undertaking for some family,
(20:03):
right right. The reward of course, of course.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Well, I think for anyone who's listening and is in
the area, they can go to seeingi dot org and
it's right there on your website if they'd like to
be a puppy raiser. So I think, uh, because I
know people who are listening right now, I know that
they love dogs and puppies and doing good for the world.
So that would be really cool if we got you
some more razors. So SEEINGI dot org. So I I
(20:32):
have to talk to you about this because I know
it bothers me whenever I see someone with it, and
I'm sure it makes you crazier. You know that anyone,
right can go online and pay like whatever money it
is to get a vest for their dog. So this
way they can say, oh, this is my therapy dog,
so they can take a dog on a plane or
a restaurant. And that must make you as angry as
(20:55):
it makes me. Correct.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, yes, it's so wrong.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
It's yeah, no, it's just so wrong. Yeah, I know,
I know.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
You know, our graduates, they you know, they have to
you know, certain things. It's you know, to go on
a plane, they have to fill out of course paperworkane, right,
and why you know, like why why why should they
have to fill out the paperwork?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
You know, for the Department of transmiss they fill out
a form. And you talk about like even like getting
into like the ride share like lift and Uber, the denials,
Like what happens. What's happening is, you know, they'll they'll
pull up, they'll see somebody has a seeing eye dog
and they just they just pull away and they deny
them because it's having a dog, and it's it's a
(21:38):
very terrible, big point of frustration, big point of frustration,
and it's it's so unfortunate that it's happening. But we're
making inroads, Like we have a department here, we're trying
to make inroads in that to see, you know, we
can fix that problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
There, I hope so, because it's very frustrating for me,
especially when you hear, you know, you hear it on
like news or something that they're or whatever service animal
on an airplane bit someone and it's like right there,
the first thing that goes off in my head is like, yeah,
because it wasn't a service dog, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, So well.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
To make it difficult for people, it makes it difficult
for people like our graduates who have legitimate.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Exactly know, for the people who really need the dog. Yes, yes,
but I'm glad that you're making inroads on that because
that's good because sometimes people can be very selfish and
self centered, and I'm glad you're you're making inroads on them.
That's good. That's a very good thing. So, Jim, this
is really so fascinating and so wonderful for all the
(22:35):
things that you do, and and like you said, you
guys you survive on donations. So for anyone who's listening, right,
No donation is ever too small or too large. Correct. Yeah,
So I mean go to SEEINGIY dot org. I love
the fact that on your website it says if you can,
you can plan an event that will benefit Seeing I,
(22:57):
which is great too, like a fundraiser and your school
or you know, in your town. So, uh, I just
I'm fascinated by everything. I love that you know you
had the time because I know how your schedule is
and you know you're raising you're raising these dogs and
training them and it's it's just incredible. Thank you for
taking the time out to talk about the Seeing.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Eye My pleasure. It's always something easy to talk about. Uh,
you know, something that you know I've been doing for
so long, and it's I find it easy to talk about,
and it's I'm very fortunate to work at this organization
and you know, just a leader with a couple just
couple of things. So you know, Seeing Eye is like
we're a trademark. Like not every dog out there is
(23:38):
a Seeing Eye dog. Although people in the public they
see a guide dog and they're like, oh, that's the
Seeing I dog. It's right, it's not. It's similar to
like when people say, oh, go make a xerox or
give me are exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I was just going to say that about Kleenex. That's
so funny and it's a tissue, but yeah, you're right,
that's branding, right.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah. And these these are the only the only dogs
from our program can be holed scene our dog right.
So and also, and for the people who are listening,
I say, you know, if you're if you ever encounter
one of our graduates or anybody working with a guide dog,
you know, please don't go up and distract the dog.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Oh my goodness, that's right.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
These dogs, these dogs are have a tough job and
they need to stay focused on. Of course, I know
it's easy to all these dogs are so cute you
want to go pet unders.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, but they're working.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It's you know, it's just yeah, they're working dogs.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
They're working.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I'm glad you brought that up because I completely forgot
about that. But you're absolutely right. That's such a good
point because it would be the same as if you're
you see a construction guy raising a forklift, you wouldn't
go over to him and say, hey, can I talk
to you a second? Because he's working. These dogs are working,
they're not there for you to pet. Go to a
shelter and pet those dogs. Yeah, you're one thousand percent
on that one. I'm glad you brought that up. That's
(24:49):
a really really good point. Well, Jim Cassler, thank you
so much. I hope you continue to keep working all right.
I don't think you have any plans to retire, right
because you love what you do and that they always
say to do that, right, love what you do and
do what you love. And it sounds like that's what
your your career has been, which is very very cool.
Uh And and I thank you so For those who
want to help out a donation, learn more, just go
(25:12):
to SEEINGI dot org. Jim, thank you so much
Speaker 2 (25:16):
My pleasure, Thank you so much,
It's Maria's MUDs and Stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me today
is Jim Kessler, who is the director of Instructions and
Training at the Seeing Eye in Marstown, New Jersey. So
thank you so much, Jim. I know I've been such
a big fan of the Seeing I for so many years,
and I'm just so happy that you and I ran
(00:32):
into each other late last year and now I can
talk to you about the organization. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, happy to be here. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, So I and I didn't realize it because I
feel like I grew up knowing about the Seeing Eye
and I just I was looking on your website. You've
been around since nineteen twenty nine. Last year was the
ninety fifth anniversary. That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah. We were the first school, first school in the world.
Uh huh, had over eighteen thousand, five hundred partnerships.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Since we were created in nineteen twenty nine. Approximately, we
have about fifteen hundred active students. And what I mean
by active students are individuals who are using names Seeing
on our dogs currently and we serve We served the
entire North America, so the United States and Canada. So
we have students who come and are trained here on
(01:27):
our property in Morristown, New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Right right, I mean that's incredible. How did it all
begin way back when in nineteen twenty nine?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Oh, it started back in nineteen twenty nine with the
two big names that are familiar with our history and
are founding are both Morris Frank and Dorothy Harrison Eustace.
Dorothy was a She was from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She was
(01:55):
very in tune and loved the German shepherd as breed.
Morris Frank travels to they They, Switzerland and is trained
with the first seeing eye dog named named Buddy. The
original name was Kiss, and he decided he didn't want
to have a dog named Kiss, so he changed dogs Buddy,
(02:17):
and all his dogs and all his dogs after that
were named Buddy. Oh wow, okay, yeah. Both Morris Frank
and Dorothy they you know, what they did pretty much
started the entire guide dog movement worldwide. And the efforts
that they put in are what are what are graduates
are a direct result of what our graduates get today
by coming to the C and I getting pared getting
(02:39):
matched to one of our dogs.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Sure, so okay, So tell me what is a day
in the life for you Jim Kestler Like, how does
your day start? What is what does it entail for you?
With the Seeing Eye dog.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I started my career here twenty four years ago. I
started as an as an apprentice, or there's when you
become and when you become an instructor, you start you
have a three year apprenticeship that you learn. It's all
on the job training. Like I came from a completely
different background. Oh, I used to work in New York City.
Were used to work in New York City. I had
(03:14):
no dog training experience, yeah, pet dogs and I was
growing up. I had no dog training experience. So you
learn everything here on the job, everything about dogs, training,
working with students. So, and my job now as director
of the department is you know, we have twenty five instructors.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
That and we have five teams, five teams of five instructors.
And these instructors are all at different stages. So it
takes four months to train one of our dogs to
become a guide being matched with somebody, so in they're
reaching different stages of the train. They're in the first
month of training, second month, third month, and fourth month
(03:57):
of training. And people are surprised when I say, okay,
it takes People ask, oh, I want to take the
train of dog a year, and I said, oh, it
takes four months, and people are people are surprised at
that that it takes such a short period of time
because you know, these dogs have a very difficult job.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Sure, that's a big job, big responsibility.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, I think I think I think collectively, uh, if
you take all the jobs a dog can have, I
think this is the most difficult job the doll can have,
just be responsibility. Sure, and the pressure that these dogs,
of course feel.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Sure I get that.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So yeah, so and I kind of not a kind
of I did. I got off the question that you
initially asked.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh no, it's okay. Yeah, yeah, no, this is great.
This is great because you're really giving us a slice
into the life of what goes on for you as
a trainer, but also what goes into making a dog
into a seeing eye dog, which you know is a
big responsibility for the dog because basically it's guiding and
(04:59):
safe being someone's life. You know, there's a lot of
decisions that that dog has to make so I get it.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, yeah, and you know we have you know, as
an organization, our success rate is close it's in sixty percent.
So it's and that's uh, that's that's good for uh standard,
you know, industry wide. Sure, you know, not every dog
can not every dog is cut out to do this.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
The sixty Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
We breed all our own dogs here. We have you know,
we have a breeding facility and we have a we
have a you know, veterinary staff. We have full time
geneticists on staff.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Oh wow, Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
People ask, you know, yeah, people ask why do you
why do you breathe your own dogs? And it's it's
for we have we're able to control, We're able to
control comperment. Yeah, so it's it's a you know, before
I got into this line of work, Marie, I was
you know, I didn't I had no idea what was
involved in it. You know, there's a there's a lot
(06:02):
that goes into it. I mean, so you have you
have a dog, a dog is trained to be a
guide and somebody who someone who's blind, and there's certain
things you have to think about, Yeah, think about when
you're going into matching person. Okay, and the two things
(06:23):
that are really most important to us or pace and pull.
Me mean, how fast does the individual want to walk
and how much pole do they want to feel on
hardess harness. So, and what I mean by the harness
is it's what dogs wear and it's the information. It's
communication device between dog and handler. Correct, get to feel
lateral moves, left, lateral moves to the right, speed up,
slow down, they're able to feel that. So in our
(06:46):
line of work, pace and pull are two most important things.
And then you look at the lifestyle of the individual
and what they do on a daily basis, and you
make a match based on this these certain characteristics of
dog in person to get the best match that you
can correct every time. Now, we're not you know, we
(07:08):
make mistakes, but you know that's the it happens.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
It happens, of course, but that's that's human nature and
that's just life. I mean, yeah, yeah, it can't be
one accurate all the time because you're not you're not
a fortune teller, you know, who's to know?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
No, not exactly exactly. Yeah, So its how the process works.
And I'll just go to a little more detail about
So we every every month of the Seeing Eye. We
have what we call a class and what and what
that basically means is we have students from all over
North America come to the Seeing Eye to be trained
with a Seeing Eye dog. So these students can either
(07:46):
be individuals who've had dogs before they're coming back to
get a successor dogs. So there are returning students. Then
we have students that have never had a dog before.
So they come here campus and if they're returning students,
they spend eighteen days. If they're a new student, they
spend twenty five days. So and they're trained, so they
(08:07):
live here on campus, they have their own room. We
are able to really start the foundation build the relationship
between the dog and the person. It's you know, is
everything perfect after a month, No, but you you've laid
the groundwork. So they come here to campus and they
spend this time here and really it's it's a busy
(08:29):
day for them. They're up at five thirty in the
morning and they're you know, taking care of the dog,
taking the dog out, feeding the dog. They have trips
that they have to do with their instructor in the morning,
a trip in the afternoon, and throughout the entire process
they're learning things that are pertinent to guide you know,
(08:50):
guide dog mobility. Sure, and it's a it's a great
thing to watch. I've been doing this for twenty four
years and it never gets never gets tiring to me.
To you know, see students who you know, they come
in on the first day, they're just meeting their dog,
and then they leave after eighteen or twenty five days,
and you see the relationship that's built between the dog
(09:10):
and the person, right, and it's just it's great. I'm
sure it's great to watch.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
It has to be heartwarming for you too, because you're
part of that process.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Oh no, agreed, Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I'm sure. I know from you know, talking to organizations
that supply service dogs to veterans with PTSD, and I
feel it's it's probably the same exact thing for someone
who doesn't have their sight that these dogs give them
their life and give you know, the dog gives its life,
but it makes people who do things that they would
(09:44):
be limited to do, and so they get to live
their life every day because of the dog, which is
like phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yea, yeah, I mean I trained a gentleman and he
and I've known them. I known for a long time,
and he said to me, wasn't for my seeing eye dog,
I would not have I would not be the person
I am today. Sure, and it's it's great.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, and that must you know, it gives me a
chill to hear it. Just but I can imagine how
it must make you feel being so involved in that
whole process. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah. So for someone who's listening and you know, thinking
about needing a seeing eye dog, how would how would
the process how would they start the process with the
seeing eye.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, so they would have to they fill out an
application to you know, to apply, and there's you know,
the application, and there's certain requirements that we require along
with the application, and you know, one thing that's required
is each of our each of our students have to
(10:53):
have orientation of mobility. And what orientation mobility is is
it's using a way using a king. So I mean
you can either you can either use a dog or
you can use a kne and there's differences between both,
but you have to have those orientational mobility skills because
they're applicable to your when you when you're using a
(11:15):
same eye dog. So you fill out, you fill out
the application and you know, just say, you fill out
the application and you get accepted. Part of the process
is we have an instructor come to their home environment
and they do it in person interview. So you may ask, okay,
(11:37):
what do you do with the in person interview? So
as an instructor, it gives us the opportunity to see
where the individual lives, what their lifestyle is like. But
even more importantly, it gives us an opportunity to do
a Juno walk. The instructor pretends to be a dog,
(11:58):
meaning they take a harness and they walk with the
individual to get one how much pole they want to
feel in the harness? And two what speed they want
to walk? Like I mentioned earlier, pay and pull the
important criteria. Yeah, because the last thing we want to
do is an organization, is give the dog that's too
fast or slow or shows too little or pulls too much.
(12:20):
Of course, so we do general walk and that also
gives us the opportunity to see how the individual you know,
follows a lot like how do they follow lateral moves?
Do they follow lateral moves? The lateral moves, the left
lateral moves to light, how do they do how they
do when they're following the harness. So it's important criteria
that we as an instructor gauge from this junal walk.
(12:43):
So we go and we assess them in their home environment.
Stay okay, We get all the information we need from it,
and then when they're accepted into when they get accepted,
that's when the process begins when we start looking for
a match for them. So each month, like I said,
a group of students from North America come to campus,
(13:05):
comes to Morristown, New Jersey, and they're trained with their dog,
and we have we have a class every month of
the year. So January through December we have a class
on campus. And then another thing I failed to mention
is that you know we are we're a nonprofit organization. Yeah,
we we don't rely on any funding from you know,
(13:28):
the government, nor do we've any funding from the state.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It's all it's all donations funding.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It's all donations. And the cost of a cost of
a Seeing Eye dog is approximately from costs to create
each partnership is seventy five thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, yeah, I figured that. Yeah, that's that's that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah, there's a lot of money. Yeah. And since nineteen
thirty three and we haven't changed this. The cost the
cost for a cost for one of our students is
one hundred and fifty dollars for the first time and
fifty dollars for you turning student. Amazing, and since and
since nineteen forty one, we charge one dollar for veterans. Wow,
(14:16):
and that hasn't changed. That hasn't changed.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Since nineteen forty one. That's a long time. Yeah, that's
a long time.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's the symbol for us. It's it's
they they have they have some ownership in this. They
they you know, they you know, paid this fee and
it's its ownership then. And that's one thing too about
the Seeing Eye is when our graduates graduate and leave
our students, they have full ownership of the dog, right,
So it's their dog. So we as an organization, you know,
(14:45):
that's we don't we don't retain ownership of the dog
once you'll graduate that you still all the requirements, right,
they have full ownership of the dog. And I failed
to mention too pres the dogs, the breeds that we
use are Labradors, Golden Retriever and German shepherds, and we
cross a lab in Golden to get a cross breed, right,
But those are those are the three predomintered breeds that
(15:07):
we use.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I was gonna say, is there a reason, but it's
it just seems like those are the working dogs that
seem that that can handle it, right.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
And somebody asked me, like somebody asked me, is like,
why don't you use a husky? You know, you know,
it's it's the three breeds that we use, the lab
Golden and the shepherds. They they're the breeds that are
you know, we feel, you know, that's best success.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, and that's what you would go by. Yeah, I
mean why would you. It's like if you have a
product that works, right, if you were a manufacturer of
a product, why would you change up your product if
it works well and it works for people, right, So
you know it makes sense. No, it makes sense. And
I know that, you know, I mean, I do know
this obviously. And I saw it also on your website
(15:52):
that people can volunteer to raise the puppies. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah? Yeah, you're onred correct, and the puppy raisers are
They're a huge, huge part of our mission at the
Seeing Eye. So approximately five hundred puppies are born each
year at the Seeing Eye. And what happens is that
these puppies are born and you know, eight weeks of age,
(16:17):
these volunt these families, these puppy raising families volunteer their
services and their time, energy love to raise these puppies
and they get them. They get the dogs about eight
weeks of age and then they come back to the
Seeing Eye and they're approximately say thirteen fourteen. These puppy
is they put all the hard work in their house,
(16:38):
breaking the dogs, the teaching the dog basic deedas and
they're also they're also getting these dogs out into socializing them,
getting them out into the real world to see how
they react to certain things. And what happens is in
different geographic area and geographic areas there is a club.
So you belong to a club of puppy raisers. Guys
(17:00):
meet weekly or you know every other week. And then
they do outings where they go to see they go
to New York City. And this is all important information
for us because these families will fill out a report
for their puppies saying and as when they come back
to going to instruction. In the training instructors look at
(17:22):
these reports and they get notes from these families showing
certain things that the dog reacted to and just important,
very important information for us when we go into the
training of the dogs. And I used to say, if
it wasn't for the puppy raisers, our ability to carry
our mission would be very difficult. It would pretty much
be impossible because the families the selfless dedication to the
(17:45):
organization by raising these puppies, right, and then at you know,
thirteen fourteen months, we're saying, okay, thanks, we're going to
take the dog back. But what a lot of these
families do is they repeat razors. So they raise a
dog and then the raise.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Another one one. Yeah, now, that's amazing, you need them.
That's that's the whole start. So of course that makes sense.
And I'm sorry because I'm not sure I heard it
on my end, right, maybe not on yours. But when
you said that they go from eight weeks and then
they bring them back to you, what was the time
period on that, because on my end to cut out.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Oh, it was approximately thirteen to fourteen months of age.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
They come out Oh okay, wow, so they have Yeah,
so they have that puppy for like almost a year.
There's a lot of stuff they could do. Yeah, that's
pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, our family, my family, we've raised a puppy and
it was it was a great experience for my kids.
I'm sure still you know, they still talk about it. Yeah,
and you know, you're doing something, you're doing something for
the greater good by of course you raising this dog
that in turn will eventually become a same I dog, right,
And I.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Would think that knowing that you're doing such a good
deed is bigger than oh no, I'm sad because we
have to give the dog back, right, But the bigger
the bigger picture.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, you know, but you're right, you're right. I mean
there's still a lot of you know. What happens is
so the the dog comes back and goes through it's
four month of train four months of training, and then
at the end of like probably about close to the
end of the end of the fourth month, if the
dog made it, If the dog made it, and it's
(19:19):
going to be matched or yeah, it's going to be
potentially matched. The family comes in. The family comes and
observes the dog working with the instructors. They get they
get the Yeah, they get the the end result, which
is great, and there's oh yeah, there's tears chick of.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Course, but of course because they're but they're part of
the process. It's like they get they get to see
the child graduate, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Oh yeah, yeah, and then you know, and the puppy
raisers is there's there's there's a shortage and it's it's
worldwide shortage of puppy raisers. And it seemed ever since COVID,
ever since COVID, really okay, decline and puppy raisers, and
it's huge. It's it's a huge undertaking for some family,
(20:03):
right right. The reward of course, of course.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Well, I think for anyone who's listening and is in
the area, they can go to seeingi dot org and
it's right there on your website if they'd like to
be a puppy raiser. So I think, uh, because I
know people who are listening right now, I know that
they love dogs and puppies and doing good for the world.
So that would be really cool if we got you
some more razors. So SEEINGI dot org. So I I
(20:32):
have to talk to you about this because I know
it bothers me whenever I see someone with it, and
I'm sure it makes you crazier. You know that anyone,
right can go online and pay like whatever money it
is to get a vest for their dog. So this
way they can say, oh, this is my therapy dog,
so they can take a dog on a plane or
a restaurant. And that must make you as angry as
(20:55):
it makes me. Correct.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yeah, yes, it's so wrong.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
It's yeah, no, it's just so wrong. Yeah, I know,
I know.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
You know, our graduates, they you know, they have to
you know, certain things. It's you know, to go on
a plane, they have to fill out of course paperworkane, right,
and why you know, like why why why should they
have to fill out the paperwork?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
You know, for the Department of transmiss they fill out
a form. And you talk about like even like getting
into like the ride share like lift and Uber, the denials,
Like what happens. What's happening is, you know, they'll they'll
pull up, they'll see somebody has a seeing eye dog
and they just they just pull away and they deny
them because it's having a dog, and it's it's a
(21:38):
very terrible, big point of frustration, big point of frustration,
and it's it's so unfortunate that it's happening. But we're
making inroads, Like we have a department here, we're trying
to make inroads in that to see, you know, we
can fix that problem. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
There, I hope so, because it's very frustrating for me,
especially when you hear, you know, you hear it on
like news or something that they're or whatever service animal
on an airplane bit someone and it's like right there,
the first thing that goes off in my head is like, yeah,
because it wasn't a service dog, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, So well.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
To make it difficult for people, it makes it difficult
for people like our graduates who have legitimate.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Exactly know, for the people who really need the dog. Yes, yes,
but I'm glad that you're making inroads on that because
that's good because sometimes people can be very selfish and
self centered, and I'm glad you're you're making inroads on them.
That's good. That's a very good thing. So, Jim, this
is really so fascinating and so wonderful for all the
(22:35):
things that you do, and and like you said, you
guys you survive on donations. So for anyone who's listening, right,
No donation is ever too small or too large. Correct. Yeah,
So I mean go to SEEINGIY dot org. I love
the fact that on your website it says if you can,
you can plan an event that will benefit Seeing I,
(22:57):
which is great too, like a fundraiser and your school
or you know, in your town. So, uh, I just
I'm fascinated by everything. I love that you know you
had the time because I know how your schedule is
and you know you're raising you're raising these dogs and
training them and it's it's just incredible. Thank you for
taking the time out to talk about the Seeing.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Eye My pleasure. It's always something easy to talk about. Uh,
you know, something that you know I've been doing for
so long, and it's I find it easy to talk about,
and it's I'm very fortunate to work at this organization
and you know, just a leader with a couple just
couple of things. So you know, Seeing Eye is like
we're a trademark. Like not every dog out there is
(23:38):
a Seeing Eye dog. Although people in the public they
see a guide dog and they're like, oh, that's the
Seeing I dog. It's right, it's not. It's similar to
like when people say, oh, go make a xerox or
give me are exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I was just going to say that about Kleenex. That's
so funny and it's a tissue, but yeah, you're right,
that's branding, right.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah. And these these are the only the only dogs
from our program can be holed scene our dog right.
So and also, and for the people who are listening,
I say, you know, if you're if you ever encounter
one of our graduates or anybody working with a guide dog,
you know, please don't go up and distract the dog.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Oh my goodness, that's right.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
These dogs, these dogs are have a tough job and
they need to stay focused on. Of course, I know
it's easy to all these dogs are so cute you
want to go pet unders.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, but they're working.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It's you know, it's just yeah, they're working dogs.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
They're working.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
I'm glad you brought that up because I completely forgot
about that. But you're absolutely right. That's such a good
point because it would be the same as if you're
you see a construction guy raising a forklift, you wouldn't
go over to him and say, hey, can I talk
to you a second? Because he's working. These dogs are working,
they're not there for you to pet. Go to a
shelter and pet those dogs. Yeah, you're one thousand percent
on that one. I'm glad you brought that up. That's
(24:49):
a really really good point. Well, Jim Cassler, thank you
so much. I hope you continue to keep working all right.
I don't think you have any plans to retire, right
because you love what you do and that they always
say to do that, right, love what you do and
do what you love. And it sounds like that's what
your your career has been, which is very very cool.
Uh And and I thank you so For those who
want to help out a donation, learn more, just go
(25:12):
to SEEINGI dot org. Jim, thank you so much
Speaker 2 (25:16):
My pleasure, Thank you so much,
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