January 28, 2025 • 33 mins
On today's episode of Keeping Ashland Healthy, Dr. Ashley and the Boss start getting excited for the 16th Annual Pat Risser RSVP Conference on March 26, 2025. After some deep breathing, they talk about effective local programming to assist transitional-aged youth. Finally, our two bookworms review Good Energy by Dr. Casey Means and Atomic Habits by James Clear. Both are highly recommended. Information about today's can be found by clicking the following hyperlinks or calling the Board at 419.281.3139. Good Energy. Atomic Habits. Register for RSVP Today! Transitional Age Youth Services at Appleseed and .css-j9qmi7{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webkit-flex-direction:row;-ms-flex-direction:row;flex-direction:row;font-weight:700;margin-bottom:1rem;margin-top:2.8rem;width:100%;-webkit-box-pack:start;-ms-flex-pack:start;-webkit-justify-content:start;justify-content:start;padding-left:5rem;}@media only screen and (max-width: 599px){.css-j9qmi7{padding-left:0;-webkit-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webkit-justify-content:center;justify-content:center;}}.css-j9qmi7 svg{fill:#27292D;}.css-j9qmi7 .eagfbvw0{-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;color:#27292D;}
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome. You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a
podcast production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of
Ashland County, Ohio. Thanks for joining us, and welcome back
to another episode in the studio with me is the
one the Only Doctor, Ashley Ackerman. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm doing great. How are you doing this morning, boss,
I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I'm doing pretty well. You know, We've got a lot
going on. Very excited to talk about everything on today's show,
and you know, as I look ahead to this new
year and all the things that the Board is focused on,
I'm excited. I hope you know, some of our listeners
if they have specific topics, you know, we don't always
talk about this, but certainly they can reach out to
(00:49):
the Board and get in touch with either you or
I and we're always open to talking about things from
the community members.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's a great idea. Actually, yeah, ask for people's feedback
on that.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yep, so they can get a hold of us, you know,
certainly in our four one nine, two eight one three
one three nine number. But uh, I just look at
all the things that we're talking about today and just
throughout the rest of this year. I think it's gonna
ben exciting year. And as you said, Doctor Ashley, my
name is David Ross. I'm the executive director here at
the Board, and I am, you know, excited about today.
(01:21):
I'm the only thing, Doctor Ashley, You're gonna have to
restrain me, keep me uh in our time frames. I
don't want to bore the audience. Uh. But again, this
is you know, the production uh, this podcast. We really
intended to try to educate as best we can and
inform the Ashton County community about mental health and substance
use services, both at the Board funds through our contract
(01:41):
partners Apple See Catholic Charities Indicata, but also more broadly. Uh.
As we've talked about on these episodes, I am passionate
and I know you are too, Doctor Ashley about educating
the community in you know, their own mental health and
well being and how they can go about securing that.
And that doesn't always mean being involved with our system
(02:04):
of care. It could. So I want folks to know
how they can help themselves in their natural communities, but
also when they do get involved with any of our systems,
the best way to navigate and negotiate and make sure
they're getting the best care.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Advocate for themselves in the system. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So you know, our first topic today is in line
with that, and it's you know, we've been for about
sixteen years now, we've been offering the Respect, Success, Value
and Purpose Conference, most of you know it locally as
the RSVP Conference, and that is coming up, doctor Ashley,
and we are excited to talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Exciting. Yeah, this is one of our biggest events.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, And it is on Wednesday, March twenty sixth this year.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Twenty twenty five, and we are back at Ashley University's
Convocation Center. Yes, yep. So as we like to say,
this was a conference build around a soup.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah. Uh. For those of you who do not know,
ash In University has a mean mushroom soup, so we
we always have that. In fact, Dr Ashley, if we
do not have the soup at the conference, which we
did one year, we neglected to have it. We never
had such low ratings evaluation. Where's the exactly?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And I thought you were overemphasizing that soup, but like
it really is good.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
It's a good soup. So definitely rest assured those of
you are contemplating attending. Uh, we will have the mushroom soup. Now.
I love what you did with some of the promo
for the conference, Doctor Ashley warning conference may cause side effects,
and we landed on that because our keynote speaker, Brooks
(03:48):
Seam is the author of the book May Cost side Effects.
And I thought that was great because I think as
Brooke talks about her book and her journey of discontinuating medication,
psychiatric medications that she was on beginning at age fifteen,
on them for fifteen years. But her journey is I
(04:09):
think going to be thought provoking for our attendees, but
difficult for some folks to hear. And that's okay because
it's not something that's talked about a lot psychiatric drug
discontinuation or tapering. There's not a lot of good books.
There's certainly not a lot of stories like Brooks, which
is why we're just thrilled to bring her in so audiences,
(04:33):
you know, the audience can hear directly from her, ask
her questions. But her stories is riveting and I think
transformational absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
So, what are some of these side effects do you
think people might have from coming to the conference this year?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You know, I think they'll be challenged. Their ways of
thinking might be challenged a bit, that they might be
a little bit anxious, maybe a little angry, hopefully not
too angry, because they may be hearing things that run
contrary to what they've heard before, maybe even in their
formal training, and may run against popular culture. I hope
(05:10):
one of the side effects is positive, not just negative.
I hope there's a sense of optimism and hope that
folks can feel like they can, they're able, and can
and should maybe take more control over what's going into
their body, and that they can do that and they
should advocate for themselves more. And that's a focus that
you and I and the board have, So yeah, I
think that's a good distinction. Doctor. Actually, the side effects
(05:33):
can be very very positive, even some of the emotions
that the conference illicits might be someone.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, I'm really hopeful people will feel more confident in
making decisions about medication for themselves, for other people, just
making more informed, better decisions in that way.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And we'll do This is just the first of many
promotional efforts around the conference, but we are really really
hoping that we can get our profession folks folks that
are in the peer recovery, peer survivor movement. But I
really am hoping we can get more general public than
we've ever had for one of our conferences because Brooke
(06:11):
speaks to everybody. Brook is not a councer. She's not
a psychologist, psychiatrist. She'll tell you she's trained as a chef.
You know, she was on a famous chopped chopped show
I think it was on the Food Network. I think, yeah,
and she won that that season, that particular episode that
she was on, she won. And so she's trained as
(06:32):
a chef. So she writes, you know, for like everybody.
She writes in a normal tone, but she doesn't use
I don't think she used overly complicated language or terms,
and if she does, she explains those. But I really
want folks, So these are we're really reaching out to
people that maybe have been on medications and have thought about,
you know, wonder what life would be like for me
(06:54):
without so many or any It's also for parents that
maybe you know, made the decision to put their children,
their child on medication, psychiatric medications, and we weren't really
sure about that decision. Yeah, because guess what, In addition
to Brook, who's our keynote. Her mother's coming. D Barbish
(07:14):
is also going to be speaking. And she had to
make that decision, you know, when she said okay to
put her fifteen year old daughter on these psychiatric medications.
And Dee has a lot to say about that, about
the information that was presented to her and how she
felt about making that decision then and now as she's
learned more and heard and interacted with her daughter and
(07:36):
seeing the effect of those medications over time. So Dee
has a very compelling story of her own to tell.
And that's why I really want parents to come as
well as individuals that maybe used to be are even
currently on psychiatric like I said, medications, but contemplating life
without them.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, or like a parent thinking about putting their kid
on medication because that might be being pushed by a provider.
I think this would be helpful for them too.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So we'll continue to promote that. We'll obviously have a
link to the registration which is live it and it's
only twenty bucks in person. Now again, you get the soup,
but you also get a whole day of conferencing for
that twenty bucks that includes breakfast. Launch will have books there.
If you don't have book, say that's in Hice Spizeksook
(08:29):
Brooks book, you can bring your your copy or you
can buy it there. But brook is more than willing
to sign that and you can talk to you a
little bit about that as well. So twenty bucks in person,
you know, breakfast launch snacks, you know, the books will
be available, will have plenty of vendors that will be there,
that'll be tabling. It's going to be a great, great time,
(08:51):
Brook d and then we have several other speakers that
will be there as well.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, this is really exciting.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
And it's a hybrid conference again this year, so we
have the zoom option also, so if you can't attend
in person, you can join by zoom and that's only
going to be ten dollars.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, nominal cost, but it does cover some of our
costs to do that, and there is a cost to
host that in a way that we think is professional.
So yes, ten dollars online and I know we've got
you know, one of the nice things about the RSVP conference,
we've had speakers from all over the world. We had
doctor Bond Cree from England a few years back, and
she is wonderful. She has a new book coming up.
(09:27):
We'll be talking about that on the podcast shortly. But
so I know, we have some folks they just can't
make it to Ashland County for the conference, but they
are interested. So I hope that online presence grows for
those that just can't make it or they have a
conflict or the travel would be too much. So yes,
ten dollars for the zoom option, So all that'll be
in the episode description, Doctor Ashley. We are thrilled to
(09:49):
have Brooke d and our other speakers for RSVP.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
If you'd like to register for the conference, go to
Ashland MHRB dot.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Org Ashland m h RB dot org. Yes, thank you,
Doctor Ashley. Next up is one of our local programs,
so we try to cover a lot of ground on
the program, including things that the Board is involved with
locally through our contract partners, Apple c Catholic Charities, and
a CADA. A program I wanted a spotlight today, Doctor Ashley,
(10:20):
with you is the Transitional Aged Youth program. And again
what we mean by that are young people sixteen to
twenty four. Now we're not super rigid with that age range,
but that's roughly how transitional age youth is defined sixteen
to twenty four. The research has shown that individuals in
(10:43):
that age range, and if we think back just to
our own sixteen to twenty four year old, it's a
critical juncture in our development, in our lives and for
us in the mental health and substance use world. We
see as an opportunity to help maybe change or reinforce
a trajectory, a positive, healthy trajectory for young people that
(11:06):
maybe just need support. Oftentimes, people in miss age range
don't have a lot of good natural supports. They might
be struggling, whether that's in finance, education direction, relationally, and
what we don't want to see happen is somebody maybe
come into our system and stay in our system, God forbid,
(11:27):
get on SOD security when they wouldn't otherwise need to
be if they had the right kinds of supports, training, direction, etc.
So we started this program. The Board funded it many
years ago now at Apple Steed and Catholic Charities to
help engage these young people. A lot of them are
coming out of the foster care system. Our school community
Liaison program identifies some of these young people maybe as
(11:51):
they're younger, sometimes our prevention educators identify young people that
maybe they just don't have the supports. There's a lot
of potential, but they just need some to walk beside
them outside of school. So maybe it starts, you know,
while they're still in school. But you know, just because
you hit eighteen, doctor Ashley, doesn't mean that you're equipped
to make wonderful decisions around education, employments a time.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, and you're making decisions that will impact you for
a long time to come during that period. So yeah,
this is an important program.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, I look back, you know, and I you know,
I had a very mixed support system in my own
personal life, so yeah, I think back. You know, some
of the decisions I made were basically ignorant decisions because
I didn't have a lot of people that I could
go to and talk it through. I Mean, now, some
might say, well, David, that's the school of hard knocktion.
That's how you learned I learn, And that's true, you know,
(12:45):
but you know, it would have been nice in retrospect
to have at least even fight. Yeah. I listened to
their advice and didn't take it, which is what eighteen
year old men do. At least I would have had
the opportunity to talk it through with somebody, so when
it all blew up, I could say, you know what
Dad did, tell me that that was good? Yeah. Yeah.
So hopefully the folks that are involved with this program,
(13:09):
and again it's at Appleseed and Catholic charities, they will
have somebody if you're involved, they will have somebody that
they can go to and talk with. And again that
they focus on those areas of employment in career. They're
housing and living situation, educational opportunities whether that's GED or
you know, trade or higher ED. And then the personal
(13:31):
effectiveness and well being because again these are all critical
as we think about those those four areas, those are
just critical areas for that any age really, but particularly
at that age and you know, life, community functioning. These
are these are the areas that your Transitional Age Youth
program will will help you with. They use a model
(13:52):
that's evidence based. It's it's called the Transition to Independence
Process model or the TIP model. I only say that,
doctor Ashley, because I want the audience to know that
you know, this is they're not flying by the seat
other pants the workers. This is an evidence based model
that they follow and I think that makes a big difference.
(14:12):
So again, if you are somebody in that age raine
sixteen to twenty four or friend, family member, parent, that
think that that additional support would be helpful for your
sixteen to twenty four year old, please contact apple Seed
or Catholic Charities ask about the Transitional Aged Youth program.
They will route you to that worker and get you
(14:33):
involved with that. But I'm very excited about that because
I've seen it. You know, we get reports audience may
remember this from previous episodes. We get reports for the
programs at the Board funds on a regular basis. So
you and I, doctor Ashley, or we get to read
these stories. Yeah, we get to read the transformative stories
about maybe a young person that was going in one direction,
(14:53):
got involved with the program, got the help, got the supports,
got the carrying individual, and then boom, things changed. Right,
They get through the schooling, they get through the job
they need, they get the secure housing that they were
looking for, So that it's an important program for me.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Something also that's really impactful is when we meet with
the agencies and we talk with them about the providers
and what they're doing, and they're very, very passionate about
helping that population and all the people that they work with.
But I love hearing them talk about that work. You know,
can tell that they really care.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, I would say that's been the case. There's only
not been a lot of turnover with the workers in
those positions, and I think that goes to what you're saying.
After acture, they stay because they're very passionate. They really
enjoy working with these young people. So anyway, transitionally youth program,
I couldn't recommend that more. I mean really can make
(15:46):
a difference. And as I sometimes say, people get tired
of me saying this, it really can change the trajectory
of a young person's life. And you know, that's why
the board continues to fund it and why we're so
passionate about it. So it wouldn't be keeping Ashland healthy
podcast episode if I didn't talk about a book. If
(16:07):
the audience is not aware, I've got a small problem.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
A problem.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yes, yes, now the staff know this and some of
the board members know this, But I I have a
voracious appetite for for books and for reading.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
It's something that was instilled by miss Weibel in second grade.
Miss Wible, she's still around. Shout out to miss Bible,
that's smiss school. Uh. She engendered a love of books
that my mother capitalized on. And when I read about
you know, the Mouse and the Red motorcycle, Yes, and
(16:45):
many other stories. Well maybe I don't know. Fact I
think it was pre Stewart Little It is called the
Mouse in the Motorcycle, and I just you know, books
to me were just you know, just just a great
way to learn, but also just fascinating to explore imagination.
(17:06):
And that is continued with me my entire adult life.
So I at any one time, doctor Ashley am reading
around twenty five books or.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So, so he is not even minimizing that.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Nope, I love my books basically. That's why I had
to buy a house. Was basically the place for my
books and my shoes. So anyway, so today's book is
Good Energy by doctor Casey means this is an exciting
book talk about may have side effects. It may it
(17:40):
may have that for people. I guarantee a lot of
folks that read it will be challenged by it. Avery
is the publisher. They're an imprint of Penguin Random House,
New York. It was a New York Times bestselling book.
Good Energy Casey means again, information will be in and
(18:01):
the episode description. But doctor means, why I like her
so much is she is what we call an insider,
So she is top of her class. I think Stanford
Medical School graduate. She was on that track like a
lot of physicians are. Uh. And she started to become
(18:22):
disillusions by what she was seeing, what she was being
asked to do, the kind of education that she was seeing,
the hyper specialization of medicine that she was experiencing, and
she said, I can't do this. This isn't fulfilling, this
isn't what I thought medicine was going to be interesting.
(18:42):
And so she's really pushed back. And as you know,
the audience can't see. But I have the book in
front of me. I'll read just several things that might
push buttons for our audience, which is good, Doctor Ashley.
I wanted to go out and get the book and
read it. She says on page I guess it would
be page eight. In the introduction, we still treat the
(19:05):
organ specific results of the bad energy, not the bad
energy itself. And what she's getting at there, and I'll
let you figure out what she means by good and
bad energy, reader, But what she's talking about is root
causes versus symptoms, And doctor Ashley and I have touched
on that. I am passionate that we need to return
(19:28):
to discussing root causes rather than just focusing on knocking
down symptoms. Yes, whether we're talking about primary physical health
or psychological, mental health, substance use issues, just a few more,
you know, because it's not enough. She says that the
hospital system, pharmaceutical system makes money on managing disease, not
(19:54):
curing patients.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Oh yeah, and that's so true.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, And she says, you know, let's look at the outcomes.
Patients aren't getting better, but this idea of managing disease
not curing patients. Again, there's a lot she talks about
with the primary healthcare system, but there's so much overlap
between primary health and physical health, mental and emotional health.
(20:18):
But these systems are not radically different.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I would argue that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
So if they benefit from staying in that system financially
for one thing, yes.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
So are we really focusing on length of stay? So
for my brethren out there in the community behavioral health world,
and just audience, if you've forgot Doctor Ashley and I
both worked in that system for many, many years. We're
both therapists by training and practice before we were now
in these administrative roles. But I think we have to
(20:49):
return to focusing on reducing the length of stay. The
time somebody is in our system, we want to get
them the help that they need so that they can
come in, get that help and leave our system back
to their quote unquote normal lives and their normal support
systems as quickly as possible. It should never be our goal,
(21:10):
is what I say, catch and keep. That's something that
really bothers me. But there are payer systems, managed care,
other funding systems that are really set up that promote
that more of that catch and keep approach rather than
turning folks over quickly. Yeah, and we're hoping to change
(21:31):
that here at the board and with the help of
our partners, I know we can do that. There's another
kind of impactful quote on page sixty one. Every institution
that impacts your health makes more money when you are
sick and less than when you are healthy, from hospitals
to pharma, to medical schools and even insurance companies. So
(21:52):
again that's a challenging statement in some ways. She says
when it comes to preventing and manage chronic disease. You
should not trust the medical system. Again. I know it's
going to push the buttons for folks, but.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So important, I think critically about the care that you're receiving,
you know, and the systems and why they are set
up how they are.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah. On page sixty four, she makes a difference here
that I think really applies to our system. And it's
my last quote, audience, I don't get mad with me.
She says, we should consider listening to the medical system
if we have an acute issue like a life threatening
infection or broken bone, But when it comes to the
chronic conditions that plague our lives, we should question almost
(22:38):
every institution regarding nutrition or chronic disease advice. All you
need to do is follow the money in incentives. So
her point, and I think there's some parallel to our system.
You know, they do a good job when it comes
to some kind of emergency and chronication or emergency and
acute situations, but not so good on the preventative and
(22:59):
the chronic conditions. And I see that a little bit
with our system. I think, you know, we promote our
local twenty four to seven crisis line, and I have
no reservations about doing that. I think the folks that
do that are doing a great job. They do a
great job in stabilizing people that are experiencing maybe suicidal
or homicidal ideation or thoughts or intent. I agree, And
(23:21):
they get them, you know, the care that they need.
But then we just have to make sure that the
rest of the system, you know, deals that effectively on
that ongoing basis and they reduce their lengthess day to
just what the individuals need. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Absolutely, especially for chronic or looking at people who have
mental health concerns over a long period of time. I
think that's a very applicable quote.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah. So you know, for those of you that are
interested in a book that will push you a little bit,
doctor Casey means good Energy book will do that. I
do recommend it. She talks about the connection between our lives,
choices are energy levels, and again, you can't have good
(24:04):
mental emotional health without good physical health. So she she
will help educate us, I think all of us as
to some of the technology, technology that's available to us
to help us learn more about our own bodies. I
think we all know that education is power, not education.
Education is power. Information is power. So the more information,
(24:26):
accurate information we have about our own bodies, the better
you may know this, doctor Ashley. I've talked before about
my high blood pressure when I had no idea what
it was unless I went to an appointment or something.
But once I got that machine and I routinely started
checking that that was eye opening. Yeah. I could track,
you know, how I was doing, how bad I was doing,
(24:48):
how good I was doing. You know. You know some
of these devices like the lumin l U m e
N that checks a little bit about metabolism. There's there's
just lots of devices now that we never used to have.
So she encourages folks to maybe take advantage of the technology. Yeah,
the more informed we are about our body, it's what
(25:08):
it's telling us, because again, it tells us important things.
We need to react to that. So a scale is
a very basic version of that. But you know, are
we using our scales?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
No, I really want to read that book now, So
thank you for sharing those excerpts.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yep, good energy case means encourage folks to read it,
but don't be fooled. You'll be challenged by But that's
good right, that's I like to read books that may
be challenged the way I'm thinking about things. Speaking of books,
I'm not the only one that reads. Apparently you read
books too.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
I do read some books.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I don't think I read as many as you're you're
doing twenty five minutes. I'm just trying to keep up here.
But I did recently read a really good one that
I wanted to recommend, okay, and talk a little bit
about on the podcast. So this book is called Atomic Habits. Okay,
it's by James Clear, and it's an easy, improven way
to build good habits and break bad ones.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So you think good habits are good idea? Is that
what you're saying, doctor, I.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Think, yes, they're a good idea and I So he
talks about how good habits produce results that multiply rapidly,
and bad habits do the same. So there's a thing
called aggregation. The more good that you are doing good things,
the more good that begets.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
So they accumulate kind of.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
In both directions, both directions, so good habits can beget
more and bad habits.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
More and more good in general.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
So he talks about kindness, So being kind to someone
they react differently to you in the situation, and more
opportunities might come to you, like the situation responds to
you in some ways too, So.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
That's more like a one plus one equals five. Yes,
situation exactly, so it compounds itself. Very interesting.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
I thought that was great.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
And also, you know, on the flip of that, the
bad habits do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Also, he says tiny changes make a big difference. A
daily improvement will leave you thirty seven times better at
the end of the year. But again bad habits, on
the flip of that, a daily regression will leave you
thirty seven times worse at the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
So you're the little.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Things that you do day to day really do add
up and they do matter in the end.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Wow. Yeah, Now isn't he the guy that talked about
four laws of behavior change or something like that.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Four laws of behavior change. Yes, that's his framework for
building and breaking bad habits.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Okay, so what are these four things?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I just so he says it's important to make it
obvious design your environment, to make the cues for productive
habits more visible.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
So that means like something on the fridge.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, so maybe like you have a chart where you're
keeping track of the amount of water you're consuming in
the day or something like that.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Okay, it's obvious. It's something you make it obvious.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, So whatever habits you we're going to make that. Okay, Yeah,
what's another one?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Make it attractive.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Increase the appeal of productive habits by pairing them with
enjoyable activities. He also he calls that habit stacking. So
that's a technique that encourages you to combine routine hobbits.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Stacking is on top of bilbo.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Is that what you're saying, I do love I love
some hobbits, so has.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Doctor Ashley does have a strange affinity for hobbits. But
we're talking about habits.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
We're going to go down a rabbit trail on thatbbit trail.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
So, for example, if you are trying to consume more
news or information, maybe you pair that with having your
morning coffee. So you already have this coffee routine. You
incorporate another habit that's positive with that, and it's easier
to do that if you're stacking it with.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Habits you already have.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I like that.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Another law of behavior change number three Okay, number three,
make it easy. Simplify your habits to reduce friction and
make them easier to start and maintain. I think if
they're easier, you're more likely to do them, right, So
that makes sense, make it satisfying?
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Incorporate immediate rewards to reinforce productive behavior.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Immediate rewards. Oh okay, so you want to as best
you can and incorporate something that you can see relatively
quick payoff, you think, I think so?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, small things, small daily things that you see some
some results with right away, because if you don't see
any kind of positive reward, you're not likely to keep
doing it. Yeah. So, I think one of the other
important parts of this book was automation. He talks about
when actions become habits, their practice repeatedly, repeatedly, and they
(29:45):
eventually take less mental focus to carry out.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
It becomes automatic.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Automatic.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
So your brain then has more freedom to do other
things because it's not focused on whatever this is. And
I thought this was a really good example. You like
car analogies, so I do. When you first learn to
drive a car, you are focused on every little thing
that you have to do.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
It was exhausting.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I remember my dad taking me out in the car
for the first time, and I'm like, how do I
do the windshield wipers? And he's like, let's not worry
about the windshield wipers. Let's you know, like focus on
the basics.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah. Yeah, he was probably scared of trying to set
the crews on your first drive.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Right, So I think that's that's a good example.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
So once you've been driving for a long time, it
becomes very automatic, and you can listen to a book,
you can, I don't know, listen to music while you're driving,
think higher thoughts while you're driving. You're not actually focused
on those those things that have become automatic. Yeah, So
I really like that becoming automatic.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
And and I guess, you know, maybe as the counselor
in me, it's coming out. It's interesting because I think
bad habits can become automatic, and so much of what
I did, truly in my clinical work was drawing attention
to the individual maybe a bad habit that had become
automatic that they didn't realize, is that how automatically they
would respond to a situation or a person in a
(31:04):
way that wasn't helpful. And as we wrote, you know,
raised awareness that they were doing that, and they acknowledged it,
then we were better able to make some changes.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
So that actually is a really good point because the
author talks about that too, that the first step in
changing a behavior is having some self awareness of it.
If you're not aware of it, like how would you
even change up?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
So makes sense.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Great point.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Well, that is Atomic Habits by James clear l e Ar.
I think yep, Well, all of these will be in
the episode description. Everything we talked about, the programming, et cetera.
But doctor actually appreciate that you read books as well,
and we'll continue to incorporate local programming, some news items
(31:49):
as we get through the year. But again, I'm excited
for r S v P and that's coming up here
in March. It'll be here before we know it. I
hope to see some of our listener at the conference.
That would be nice. Well, we'll make sure we have
some of our mugs there at our table. Yes, you know,
if you want doctor Ashley's signature, you know she is
(32:09):
willing to do that right anytime.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
All right, I can't imagine who would want this.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Well, we got out of a family, you know, yes,
what we do. Well, thank you everybody for listening again,
and we will see you next dine on the Keeping
Ashland Healthy podcast. Thank you for listening to another episode
of the Keeping Ashland Healthy podcast. The podcast is a
production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio.
You can reach the Board by calling four one nine
(32:36):
two eight one three one three nine. Please remember that
the Board funds a local twenty four to seven crisis
line through Applese Community Mental Health Center. It can be
reached by calling four one nine two eight nine sixty
one one one. That's four one nine two eight nine
sixty one one one. Until next time, Please join us
in keeping Ashland Healthy.
Welcome. You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a
podcast production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of
Ashland County, Ohio. Thanks for joining us, and welcome back
to another episode in the studio with me is the
one the Only Doctor, Ashley Ackerman. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm doing great. How are you doing this morning, boss,
I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
I'm doing pretty well. You know, We've got a lot
going on. Very excited to talk about everything on today's show,
and you know, as I look ahead to this new
year and all the things that the Board is focused on,
I'm excited. I hope you know, some of our listeners
if they have specific topics, you know, we don't always
talk about this, but certainly they can reach out to
(00:49):
the Board and get in touch with either you or
I and we're always open to talking about things from
the community members.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
That's a great idea. Actually, yeah, ask for people's feedback
on that.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yep, so they can get a hold of us, you know,
certainly in our four one nine, two eight one three
one three nine number. But uh, I just look at
all the things that we're talking about today and just
throughout the rest of this year. I think it's gonna
ben exciting year. And as you said, Doctor Ashley, my
name is David Ross. I'm the executive director here at
the Board, and I am, you know, excited about today.
(01:21):
I'm the only thing, Doctor Ashley, You're gonna have to
restrain me, keep me uh in our time frames. I
don't want to bore the audience. Uh. But again, this
is you know, the production uh, this podcast. We really
intended to try to educate as best we can and
inform the Ashton County community about mental health and substance
use services, both at the Board funds through our contract
(01:41):
partners Apple See Catholic Charities Indicata, but also more broadly. Uh.
As we've talked about on these episodes, I am passionate
and I know you are too, Doctor Ashley about educating
the community in you know, their own mental health and
well being and how they can go about securing that.
And that doesn't always mean being involved with our system
(02:04):
of care. It could. So I want folks to know
how they can help themselves in their natural communities, but
also when they do get involved with any of our systems,
the best way to navigate and negotiate and make sure
they're getting the best care.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Advocate for themselves in the system. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So you know, our first topic today is in line
with that, and it's you know, we've been for about
sixteen years now, we've been offering the Respect, Success, Value
and Purpose Conference, most of you know it locally as
the RSVP Conference, and that is coming up, doctor Ashley,
and we are excited to talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Exciting. Yeah, this is one of our biggest events.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, And it is on Wednesday, March twenty sixth this year.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Twenty twenty five, and we are back at Ashley University's
Convocation Center. Yes, yep. So as we like to say,
this was a conference build around a soup.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah. Uh. For those of you who do not know,
ash In University has a mean mushroom soup, so we
we always have that. In fact, Dr Ashley, if we
do not have the soup at the conference, which we
did one year, we neglected to have it. We never
had such low ratings evaluation. Where's the exactly?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And I thought you were overemphasizing that soup, but like
it really is good.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
It's a good soup. So definitely rest assured those of
you are contemplating attending. Uh, we will have the mushroom soup. Now.
I love what you did with some of the promo
for the conference, Doctor Ashley warning conference may cause side effects,
and we landed on that because our keynote speaker, Brooks
(03:48):
Seam is the author of the book May Cost side Effects.
And I thought that was great because I think as
Brooke talks about her book and her journey of discontinuating medication,
psychiatric medications that she was on beginning at age fifteen,
on them for fifteen years. But her journey is I
(04:09):
think going to be thought provoking for our attendees, but
difficult for some folks to hear. And that's okay because
it's not something that's talked about a lot psychiatric drug
discontinuation or tapering. There's not a lot of good books.
There's certainly not a lot of stories like Brooks, which
is why we're just thrilled to bring her in so audiences,
(04:33):
you know, the audience can hear directly from her, ask
her questions. But her stories is riveting and I think
transformational absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
So, what are some of these side effects do you
think people might have from coming to the conference this year?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You know, I think they'll be challenged. Their ways of
thinking might be challenged a bit, that they might be
a little bit anxious, maybe a little angry, hopefully not
too angry, because they may be hearing things that run
contrary to what they've heard before, maybe even in their
formal training, and may run against popular culture. I hope
(05:10):
one of the side effects is positive, not just negative.
I hope there's a sense of optimism and hope that
folks can feel like they can, they're able, and can
and should maybe take more control over what's going into
their body, and that they can do that and they
should advocate for themselves more. And that's a focus that
you and I and the board have, So yeah, I
think that's a good distinction. Doctor. Actually, the side effects
(05:33):
can be very very positive, even some of the emotions
that the conference illicits might be someone.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, I'm really hopeful people will feel more confident in
making decisions about medication for themselves, for other people, just
making more informed, better decisions in that way.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And we'll do This is just the first of many
promotional efforts around the conference, but we are really really
hoping that we can get our profession folks folks that
are in the peer recovery, peer survivor movement. But I
really am hoping we can get more general public than
we've ever had for one of our conferences because Brooke
(06:11):
speaks to everybody. Brook is not a councer. She's not
a psychologist, psychiatrist. She'll tell you she's trained as a chef.
You know, she was on a famous chopped chopped show
I think it was on the Food Network. I think, yeah,
and she won that that season, that particular episode that
she was on, she won. And so she's trained as
(06:32):
a chef. So she writes, you know, for like everybody.
She writes in a normal tone, but she doesn't use
I don't think she used overly complicated language or terms,
and if she does, she explains those. But I really
want folks, So these are we're really reaching out to
people that maybe have been on medications and have thought about,
you know, wonder what life would be like for me
(06:54):
without so many or any It's also for parents that
maybe you know, made the decision to put their children,
their child on medication, psychiatric medications, and we weren't really
sure about that decision. Yeah, because guess what, In addition
to Brook, who's our keynote. Her mother's coming. D Barbish
(07:14):
is also going to be speaking. And she had to
make that decision, you know, when she said okay to
put her fifteen year old daughter on these psychiatric medications.
And Dee has a lot to say about that, about
the information that was presented to her and how she
felt about making that decision then and now as she's
learned more and heard and interacted with her daughter and
(07:36):
seeing the effect of those medications over time. So Dee
has a very compelling story of her own to tell.
And that's why I really want parents to come as
well as individuals that maybe used to be are even
currently on psychiatric like I said, medications, but contemplating life
without them.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, or like a parent thinking about putting their kid
on medication because that might be being pushed by a provider.
I think this would be helpful for them too.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
So we'll continue to promote that. We'll obviously have a
link to the registration which is live it and it's
only twenty bucks in person. Now again, you get the soup,
but you also get a whole day of conferencing for
that twenty bucks that includes breakfast. Launch will have books there.
If you don't have book, say that's in Hice Spizeksook
(08:29):
Brooks book, you can bring your your copy or you
can buy it there. But brook is more than willing
to sign that and you can talk to you a
little bit about that as well. So twenty bucks in person,
you know, breakfast launch snacks, you know, the books will
be available, will have plenty of vendors that will be there,
that'll be tabling. It's going to be a great, great time,
(08:51):
Brook d and then we have several other speakers that
will be there as well.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, this is really exciting.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
And it's a hybrid conference again this year, so we
have the zoom option also, so if you can't attend
in person, you can join by zoom and that's only
going to be ten dollars.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah, nominal cost, but it does cover some of our
costs to do that, and there is a cost to
host that in a way that we think is professional.
So yes, ten dollars online and I know we've got
you know, one of the nice things about the RSVP conference,
we've had speakers from all over the world. We had
doctor Bond Cree from England a few years back, and
she is wonderful. She has a new book coming up.
(09:27):
We'll be talking about that on the podcast shortly. But
so I know, we have some folks they just can't
make it to Ashland County for the conference, but they
are interested. So I hope that online presence grows for
those that just can't make it or they have a
conflict or the travel would be too much. So yes,
ten dollars for the zoom option, So all that'll be
in the episode description, Doctor Ashley. We are thrilled to
(09:49):
have Brooke d and our other speakers for RSVP.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
If you'd like to register for the conference, go to
Ashland MHRB dot.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Org Ashland m h RB dot org. Yes, thank you,
Doctor Ashley. Next up is one of our local programs,
so we try to cover a lot of ground on
the program, including things that the Board is involved with
locally through our contract partners, Apple c Catholic Charities, and
a CADA. A program I wanted a spotlight today, Doctor Ashley,
(10:20):
with you is the Transitional Aged Youth program. And again
what we mean by that are young people sixteen to
twenty four. Now we're not super rigid with that age range,
but that's roughly how transitional age youth is defined sixteen
to twenty four. The research has shown that individuals in
(10:43):
that age range, and if we think back just to
our own sixteen to twenty four year old, it's a
critical juncture in our development, in our lives and for
us in the mental health and substance use world. We
see as an opportunity to help maybe change or reinforce
a trajectory, a positive, healthy trajectory for young people that
(11:06):
maybe just need support. Oftentimes, people in miss age range
don't have a lot of good natural supports. They might
be struggling, whether that's in finance, education direction, relationally, and
what we don't want to see happen is somebody maybe
come into our system and stay in our system, God forbid,
(11:27):
get on SOD security when they wouldn't otherwise need to
be if they had the right kinds of supports, training, direction, etc.
So we started this program. The Board funded it many
years ago now at Apple Steed and Catholic Charities to
help engage these young people. A lot of them are
coming out of the foster care system. Our school community
Liaison program identifies some of these young people maybe as
(11:51):
they're younger, sometimes our prevention educators identify young people that
maybe they just don't have the supports. There's a lot
of potential, but they just need some to walk beside
them outside of school. So maybe it starts, you know,
while they're still in school. But you know, just because
you hit eighteen, doctor Ashley, doesn't mean that you're equipped
to make wonderful decisions around education, employments a time.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, and you're making decisions that will impact you for
a long time to come during that period. So yeah,
this is an important program.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Yeah, I look back, you know, and I you know,
I had a very mixed support system in my own
personal life, so yeah, I think back. You know, some
of the decisions I made were basically ignorant decisions because
I didn't have a lot of people that I could
go to and talk it through. I Mean, now, some
might say, well, David, that's the school of hard knocktion.
That's how you learned I learn, And that's true, you know,
(12:45):
but you know, it would have been nice in retrospect
to have at least even fight. Yeah. I listened to
their advice and didn't take it, which is what eighteen
year old men do. At least I would have had
the opportunity to talk it through with somebody, so when
it all blew up, I could say, you know what
Dad did, tell me that that was good? Yeah. Yeah.
So hopefully the folks that are involved with this program,
(13:09):
and again it's at Appleseed and Catholic charities, they will
have somebody if you're involved, they will have somebody that
they can go to and talk with. And again that
they focus on those areas of employment in career. They're
housing and living situation, educational opportunities whether that's GED or
you know, trade or higher ED. And then the personal
(13:31):
effectiveness and well being because again these are all critical
as we think about those those four areas, those are
just critical areas for that any age really, but particularly
at that age and you know, life, community functioning. These
are these are the areas that your Transitional Age Youth
program will will help you with. They use a model
(13:52):
that's evidence based. It's it's called the Transition to Independence
Process model or the TIP model. I only say that,
doctor Ashley, because I want the audience to know that
you know, this is they're not flying by the seat
other pants the workers. This is an evidence based model
that they follow and I think that makes a big difference.
(14:12):
So again, if you are somebody in that age raine
sixteen to twenty four or friend, family member, parent, that
think that that additional support would be helpful for your
sixteen to twenty four year old, please contact apple Seed
or Catholic Charities ask about the Transitional Aged Youth program.
They will route you to that worker and get you
(14:33):
involved with that. But I'm very excited about that because
I've seen it. You know, we get reports audience may
remember this from previous episodes. We get reports for the
programs at the Board funds on a regular basis. So
you and I, doctor Ashley, or we get to read
these stories. Yeah, we get to read the transformative stories
about maybe a young person that was going in one direction,
(14:53):
got involved with the program, got the help, got the supports,
got the carrying individual, and then boom, things changed. Right,
They get through the schooling, they get through the job
they need, they get the secure housing that they were
looking for, So that it's an important program for me.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Something also that's really impactful is when we meet with
the agencies and we talk with them about the providers
and what they're doing, and they're very, very passionate about
helping that population and all the people that they work with.
But I love hearing them talk about that work. You know,
can tell that they really care.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yeah, I would say that's been the case. There's only
not been a lot of turnover with the workers in
those positions, and I think that goes to what you're saying.
After acture, they stay because they're very passionate. They really
enjoy working with these young people. So anyway, transitionally youth program,
I couldn't recommend that more. I mean really can make
(15:46):
a difference. And as I sometimes say, people get tired
of me saying this, it really can change the trajectory
of a young person's life. And you know, that's why
the board continues to fund it and why we're so
passionate about it. So it wouldn't be keeping Ashland healthy
podcast episode if I didn't talk about a book. If
(16:07):
the audience is not aware, I've got a small problem.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
A problem.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yes, yes, now the staff know this and some of
the board members know this, But I I have a
voracious appetite for for books and for reading.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
It's something that was instilled by miss Weibel in second grade.
Miss Wible, she's still around. Shout out to miss Bible,
that's smiss school. Uh. She engendered a love of books
that my mother capitalized on. And when I read about
you know, the Mouse and the Red motorcycle, Yes, and
(16:45):
many other stories. Well maybe I don't know. Fact I
think it was pre Stewart Little It is called the
Mouse in the Motorcycle, and I just you know, books
to me were just you know, just just a great
way to learn, but also just fascinating to explore imagination.
(17:06):
And that is continued with me my entire adult life.
So I at any one time, doctor Ashley am reading
around twenty five books or.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So, so he is not even minimizing that.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Nope, I love my books basically. That's why I had
to buy a house. Was basically the place for my
books and my shoes. So anyway, so today's book is
Good Energy by doctor Casey means this is an exciting
book talk about may have side effects. It may it
(17:40):
may have that for people. I guarantee a lot of
folks that read it will be challenged by it. Avery
is the publisher. They're an imprint of Penguin Random House,
New York. It was a New York Times bestselling book.
Good Energy Casey means again, information will be in and
(18:01):
the episode description. But doctor means, why I like her
so much is she is what we call an insider,
So she is top of her class. I think Stanford
Medical School graduate. She was on that track like a
lot of physicians are. Uh. And she started to become
(18:22):
disillusions by what she was seeing, what she was being
asked to do, the kind of education that she was seeing,
the hyper specialization of medicine that she was experiencing, and
she said, I can't do this. This isn't fulfilling, this
isn't what I thought medicine was going to be interesting.
(18:42):
And so she's really pushed back. And as you know,
the audience can't see. But I have the book in
front of me. I'll read just several things that might
push buttons for our audience, which is good, Doctor Ashley.
I wanted to go out and get the book and
read it. She says on page I guess it would
be page eight. In the introduction, we still treat the
(19:05):
organ specific results of the bad energy, not the bad
energy itself. And what she's getting at there, and I'll
let you figure out what she means by good and
bad energy, reader, But what she's talking about is root
causes versus symptoms, And doctor Ashley and I have touched
on that. I am passionate that we need to return
(19:28):
to discussing root causes rather than just focusing on knocking
down symptoms. Yes, whether we're talking about primary physical health
or psychological, mental health, substance use issues, just a few more,
you know, because it's not enough. She says that the
hospital system, pharmaceutical system makes money on managing disease, not
(19:54):
curing patients.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Oh yeah, and that's so true.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, And she says, you know, let's look at the outcomes.
Patients aren't getting better, but this idea of managing disease
not curing patients. Again, there's a lot she talks about
with the primary healthcare system, but there's so much overlap
between primary health and physical health, mental and emotional health.
(20:18):
But these systems are not radically different.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I would argue that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
So if they benefit from staying in that system financially
for one thing, yes.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
So are we really focusing on length of stay? So
for my brethren out there in the community behavioral health world,
and just audience, if you've forgot Doctor Ashley and I
both worked in that system for many, many years. We're
both therapists by training and practice before we were now
in these administrative roles. But I think we have to
(20:49):
return to focusing on reducing the length of stay. The
time somebody is in our system, we want to get
them the help that they need so that they can
come in, get that help and leave our system back
to their quote unquote normal lives and their normal support
systems as quickly as possible. It should never be our goal,
(21:10):
is what I say, catch and keep. That's something that
really bothers me. But there are payer systems, managed care,
other funding systems that are really set up that promote
that more of that catch and keep approach rather than
turning folks over quickly. Yeah, and we're hoping to change
(21:31):
that here at the board and with the help of
our partners, I know we can do that. There's another
kind of impactful quote on page sixty one. Every institution
that impacts your health makes more money when you are
sick and less than when you are healthy, from hospitals
to pharma, to medical schools and even insurance companies. So
(21:52):
again that's a challenging statement in some ways. She says
when it comes to preventing and manage chronic disease. You
should not trust the medical system. Again. I know it's
going to push the buttons for folks, but.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So important, I think critically about the care that you're receiving,
you know, and the systems and why they are set
up how they are.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah. On page sixty four, she makes a difference here
that I think really applies to our system. And it's
my last quote, audience, I don't get mad with me.
She says, we should consider listening to the medical system
if we have an acute issue like a life threatening
infection or broken bone, But when it comes to the
chronic conditions that plague our lives, we should question almost
(22:38):
every institution regarding nutrition or chronic disease advice. All you
need to do is follow the money in incentives. So
her point, and I think there's some parallel to our system.
You know, they do a good job when it comes
to some kind of emergency and chronication or emergency and
acute situations, but not so good on the preventative and
(22:59):
the chronic conditions. And I see that a little bit
with our system. I think, you know, we promote our
local twenty four to seven crisis line, and I have
no reservations about doing that. I think the folks that
do that are doing a great job. They do a
great job in stabilizing people that are experiencing maybe suicidal
or homicidal ideation or thoughts or intent. I agree, And
(23:21):
they get them, you know, the care that they need.
But then we just have to make sure that the
rest of the system, you know, deals that effectively on
that ongoing basis and they reduce their lengthess day to
just what the individuals need. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Absolutely, especially for chronic or looking at people who have
mental health concerns over a long period of time. I
think that's a very applicable quote.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah. So you know, for those of you that are
interested in a book that will push you a little bit,
doctor Casey means good Energy book will do that. I
do recommend it. She talks about the connection between our lives,
choices are energy levels, and again, you can't have good
(24:04):
mental emotional health without good physical health. So she she
will help educate us, I think all of us as
to some of the technology, technology that's available to us
to help us learn more about our own bodies. I
think we all know that education is power, not education.
Education is power. Information is power. So the more information,
(24:26):
accurate information we have about our own bodies, the better
you may know this, doctor Ashley. I've talked before about
my high blood pressure when I had no idea what
it was unless I went to an appointment or something.
But once I got that machine and I routinely started
checking that that was eye opening. Yeah. I could track,
you know, how I was doing, how bad I was doing,
(24:48):
how good I was doing. You know. You know some
of these devices like the lumin l U m e
N that checks a little bit about metabolism. There's there's
just lots of devices now that we never used to have.
So she encourages folks to maybe take advantage of the technology. Yeah,
the more informed we are about our body, it's what
(25:08):
it's telling us, because again, it tells us important things.
We need to react to that. So a scale is
a very basic version of that. But you know, are
we using our scales?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
No, I really want to read that book now, So
thank you for sharing those excerpts.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yep, good energy case means encourage folks to read it,
but don't be fooled. You'll be challenged by But that's
good right, that's I like to read books that may
be challenged the way I'm thinking about things. Speaking of books,
I'm not the only one that reads. Apparently you read
books too.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
I do read some books.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I don't think I read as many as you're you're
doing twenty five minutes. I'm just trying to keep up here.
But I did recently read a really good one that
I wanted to recommend, okay, and talk a little bit
about on the podcast. So this book is called Atomic Habits. Okay,
it's by James Clear, and it's an easy, improven way
to build good habits and break bad ones.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So you think good habits are good idea? Is that
what you're saying, doctor, I.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Think, yes, they're a good idea and I So he
talks about how good habits produce results that multiply rapidly,
and bad habits do the same. So there's a thing
called aggregation. The more good that you are doing good things,
the more good that begets.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
So they accumulate kind of.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
In both directions, both directions, so good habits can beget
more and bad habits.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
More and more good in general.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
So he talks about kindness, So being kind to someone
they react differently to you in the situation, and more
opportunities might come to you, like the situation responds to
you in some ways too, So.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
That's more like a one plus one equals five. Yes,
situation exactly, so it compounds itself. Very interesting.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
I thought that was great.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
And also, you know, on the flip of that, the
bad habits do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Also, he says tiny changes make a big difference. A
daily improvement will leave you thirty seven times better at
the end of the year. But again bad habits, on
the flip of that, a daily regression will leave you
thirty seven times worse at the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
So you're the little.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Things that you do day to day really do add
up and they do matter in the end.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Wow. Yeah, Now isn't he the guy that talked about
four laws of behavior change or something like that.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Four laws of behavior change. Yes, that's his framework for
building and breaking bad habits.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Okay, so what are these four things?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I just so he says it's important to make it
obvious design your environment, to make the cues for productive
habits more visible.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
So that means like something on the fridge.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, so maybe like you have a chart where you're
keeping track of the amount of water you're consuming in
the day or something like that.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Okay, it's obvious. It's something you make it obvious.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, So whatever habits you we're going to make that. Okay, Yeah,
what's another one?
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Make it attractive.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Increase the appeal of productive habits by pairing them with
enjoyable activities. He also he calls that habit stacking. So
that's a technique that encourages you to combine routine hobbits.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Stacking is on top of bilbo.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Is that what you're saying, I do love I love
some hobbits, so has.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Doctor Ashley does have a strange affinity for hobbits. But
we're talking about habits.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
We're going to go down a rabbit trail on thatbbit trail.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
So, for example, if you are trying to consume more
news or information, maybe you pair that with having your
morning coffee. So you already have this coffee routine. You
incorporate another habit that's positive with that, and it's easier
to do that if you're stacking it with.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Habits you already have.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I like that.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Another law of behavior change number three Okay, number three,
make it easy. Simplify your habits to reduce friction and
make them easier to start and maintain. I think if
they're easier, you're more likely to do them, right, So
that makes sense, make it satisfying?
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Incorporate immediate rewards to reinforce productive behavior.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Immediate rewards. Oh okay, so you want to as best
you can and incorporate something that you can see relatively
quick payoff, you think, I think so?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, small things, small daily things that you see some
some results with right away, because if you don't see
any kind of positive reward, you're not likely to keep
doing it. Yeah. So, I think one of the other
important parts of this book was automation. He talks about
when actions become habits, their practice repeatedly, repeatedly, and they
(29:45):
eventually take less mental focus to carry out.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
It becomes automatic.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Automatic.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
So your brain then has more freedom to do other
things because it's not focused on whatever this is. And
I thought this was a really good example. You like
car analogies, so I do. When you first learn to
drive a car, you are focused on every little thing
that you have to do.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
It was exhausting.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I remember my dad taking me out in the car
for the first time, and I'm like, how do I
do the windshield wipers? And he's like, let's not worry
about the windshield wipers. Let's you know, like focus on
the basics.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah. Yeah, he was probably scared of trying to set
the crews on your first drive.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Right, So I think that's that's a good example.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
So once you've been driving for a long time, it
becomes very automatic, and you can listen to a book,
you can, I don't know, listen to music while you're driving,
think higher thoughts while you're driving. You're not actually focused
on those those things that have become automatic. Yeah, So
I really like that becoming automatic.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
And and I guess, you know, maybe as the counselor
in me, it's coming out. It's interesting because I think
bad habits can become automatic, and so much of what
I did, truly in my clinical work was drawing attention
to the individual maybe a bad habit that had become
automatic that they didn't realize, is that how automatically they
would respond to a situation or a person in a
(31:04):
way that wasn't helpful. And as we wrote, you know,
raised awareness that they were doing that, and they acknowledged it,
then we were better able to make some changes.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
So that actually is a really good point because the
author talks about that too, that the first step in
changing a behavior is having some self awareness of it.
If you're not aware of it, like how would you
even change up?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
So makes sense.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
Great point.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Well, that is Atomic Habits by James clear l e Ar.
I think yep, Well, all of these will be in
the episode description. Everything we talked about, the programming, et cetera.
But doctor actually appreciate that you read books as well,
and we'll continue to incorporate local programming, some news items
(31:49):
as we get through the year. But again, I'm excited
for r S v P and that's coming up here
in March. It'll be here before we know it. I
hope to see some of our listener at the conference.
That would be nice. Well, we'll make sure we have
some of our mugs there at our table. Yes, you know,
if you want doctor Ashley's signature, you know she is
(32:09):
willing to do that right anytime.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
All right, I can't imagine who would want this.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Well, we got out of a family, you know, yes,
what we do. Well, thank you everybody for listening again,
and we will see you next dine on the Keeping
Ashland Healthy podcast. Thank you for listening to another episode
of the Keeping Ashland Healthy podcast. The podcast is a
production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio.
You can reach the Board by calling four one nine
(32:36):
two eight one three one three nine. Please remember that
the Board funds a local twenty four to seven crisis
line through Applese Community Mental Health Center. It can be
reached by calling four one nine two eight nine sixty
one one one. That's four one nine two eight nine
sixty one one one. Until next time, Please join us
in keeping Ashland Healthy.
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