February 4, 2025 • 31 mins
On today’s episode of Keeping Ashland Healthy, Dr. Ashley and the Boss welcome Dr. Oscar McKnight into the MHRB studies. As the Associate Dean of Students and Director of Health and Psychological Counseling Services, Oscar has been in a perennial leadership role at Ashland University, ensuring robust mental health and physical health programs and services are available to students. Dr. Ashley and the Boss discuss an exciting collaborative project between Oscar and the Board. Take the Survey by Clicking HERE. Questions? Contact the Board at 419.281.3139.
(Record Date: January 30, 2025)
(Record Date: January 30, 2025)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a podcast
production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Thanks for joining us and.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to another episode are the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast?
In studio doctor Ashley. Well, first, Doctor Ashley.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm good?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
How are you doing well?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm so excited because in the studio Mental Health Recovery
Board studios with us is a longtime friend of mine, colleague,
and uh just somebody'd been wanting to get on the
podcast forever, Doctor Oscar McKnight.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Welcome, doctor Oscar.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Do I have to call you doctor Oscarbody.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Calls me doctor Oscar? Just Oscar. Nobody calls me doctor.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Okay, all right, good good. That's good to know.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I mean, I feel like you've been making me call
you doctor for all these years. So now I'm learning
something that finally I can drop that.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Drop that, just Oscar. Remember I have a PhD.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
None of MD, I see I see PhD just spells
fun that Well.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oscar and I go back almost since the start of
my career here at the Mental Health and Recovery Board,
so for almost twenty years, he and I and my
former mentor and boss, Steve Stone, would get together regularly
to have coffee, but have I think, really good discussions
about what's going on at Ashleton University, because that's where
(01:22):
Oscar has worked all.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
This time that I've known him.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
You know, to talk about what's going on in the community,
what's going on at the university, and you know kind
of the relationships between those two things. Oscar, because he
works at the university, he's always been at the cutting
edge on what the young people are interested in. He
also is very involved with understanding how private practices and
other service models have developed over the years, and they
(01:49):
really have changed over the last twenty some years. So
we're going to get into some of that later. But Oscar,
your official bio I have in front of me. It's
very impressive. I had to cut it down just for
the link of this podcast. You are the associate Deenis
Students at the university as well as the director of
the psychological Counseling Services. We will put some of that
information in the podcast description because I know some of
(02:12):
you are driving as you listen, and I don't want
you to be distracted, so we will have that information.
If you want to follow with doctor Oscar or just
Oscar on anything he says today. But Oscar tell us
a little bit before we jump in. You know, you know,
you've been doing this work for a while. You know,
I don't want to put a definite age on you,
but I mean, come on, now, you've been around a
(02:34):
little while, So tell us a little bit the abbreviated
the abbreviated version of kind of like what got you
started excited? And how'd you end up at AU because
you're not from here. I think you might be from
like Youngstown or something.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
I spent my time in Youngstown and yeah, yeah, that's
where I'm froun Youngstown. But no, I started a long
time ago. You're right, started even before there was a
license in counseling.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Wow, that's wild.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
I started the drugging alcohol in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
Wow, So you do the math as far so long
I've been sort of involved with this sort of field.
But like you said, though, it has changed dramatically over
the years from what we did in nineteen seventy six
to now.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah, big big difference, right, big big difference.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
But again, even in our affiliation, you know, you work with
me and me working with you and all stuff I
come from. I have a lot of background drug and alcohol,
public mental health, psych after hospitals, all the different things.
And I found out real early it's a systems approach.
Nobody can do it in isolation. And that's why I've always,
you know, wanted to be involved with the you know,
the mental health board.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, and I know you work for children's services for
a time.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
I am still I forget sometimes I'm still a licensed
social worker. I was an investigative social worker, yes I was.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So, yeah, that systems work.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
We've talked about that a lot over the years with Oscar,
doctor Ashley, and and that's why we've loved the partnership
because you know, to have somebody that's been at the
university for as long as Oscar has, he has a
real insight as to what's going on, you know, not
only with AU, but he just he gets systems working.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Why it matters.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I think that's awesome and I'm really excited. I don't know,
I don't know this history about you, Oscar, so it's
my first time hearing that. It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, well, you know, he's very tight lip.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I know he doesn't tell me that stuff coffee?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So how long though? At AU?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Over? Thirty years? Thirty two years?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah? Was it? Do you remember? I know this is
going back. I don't know if you had your jaritol,
but you know, do you remember what drew you to AU?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
I accidentally fell into AU?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
I was actually working another agency and got a phone
call one day asked me if I wanted to come
an interview for.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
This position okay?
Speaker 5 (04:38):
And I said, I don't even know what position you're
talking about. Yeah, And they said, you know, it's a
constant center and all this sort of stuff. Then they
said it was Ashley and I said Ashland, Kentucky because
I had no idea where Ashland was at that time. Okay,
So anyway, so I you know, I said, yeah, I'll
come for an interview.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I thought it was kind of interesting.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, was at Ashton College or Ashland University?
Speaker 5 (04:57):
It was that Ashland University at okay. But but what happened was,
you know, I was pretty excited about the whole thing.
Somebody called me, you know, I said, that's pretty impressive.
You know, they must have read something about me. But anyway,
I told her. I called home at lunch because I
was working at lunch. I called home at lunch, told
my wife what happened somebody called me and all that stuff,
and she said, oh, yeah, was it Actional University? I said, yeah,
(05:18):
it's a matter. As a matter of fact, it was
and she said good. I sent your resume there a
month ago. So anyway, it was my wife who sort
of get that.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
That's a great story.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So she was trying to help you, maybe branch out
into another area.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Yeah, yeah, she wanted to help me.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And they say, Ashley is history.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
So tell us a little bit about you know, your
day to day there at the university. I mean it
says you're Associate Dean of Students and director of the
Psychological Counseling Service, so you know, I know it's changed
over the years, but kind of currently what what's your
day look like there over an AU But.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
One thing you missed off my tit I'm also the
director of the health center.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Ope, sorry for the health center.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Just a little correction there. We could edit that out,
but I.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Don't know we're going to keep that.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
No, No, my day is again, you know, a typical
sort of I shouldn't even say that because it gets
into how we deliver service. It's not a typical day.
The university technically is open from eight to eight to
five or eight to four, depending on where the health
center versus the counseling center.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
But the bottom line, in order to meet need, we
flex our schedule.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
So, for instance, saw many days Monday for instance, and
Friday for instance, I start at seven o'clock in the morning.
And the reason I start early is because I work
remotely on those days. And the reason I work remote there,
which means I do video feed or some form like that.
The reason I do that is because students go to
their internships or their co ops or their student teaching,
(06:45):
and so I see them before they go into their
student teaching or before they go into their job sort
of things. So we flex our schedule quite a bit.
And the reverse is true too. My other therapist might myself.
We also see people in the evening because people go
just student teaching, or they go to their internships and
they don't get back until five or five thirty or
something like that, and so we will see them at
(07:06):
six and seven. So we flex our schedule quite a
bit in order to meet the needs of the students there.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, and again how many folks are available to see
students the university is fairly large. I have to imagine
the need is such you probably have twenty or thirty
different folks working.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
At least thirty I think, in fact, I don't even
know half their names and tell you to shoot there
so many.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Now we have two full time therapists, oh, full time therapist.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Two full time therapists. Wow, and again really great, great
people and they do the same as me. They have
they flex their hours as well. But I do have
this semester here I have two interns, two nateral level interns,
and they're finishing up. They'll get their their degree and
their license shortly in May. Let's create that so sometimes
I'll have interns, so that counteracts everything. And we did
(07:53):
get a grant, a federal grant that we have a
case manager grant, which the grant ends up this year.
But the case management services has been really you know,
we talked about systems approach. Our case manager does so
much that we didn't even realize we had that much
of a need for as far as coordinating services with
outside parties.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I see, right, because a lot of the students that
go to the university, some are from the area, but
a lot of times they're either outside the county or
even outside the state.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Is that correct.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Our case manager deals with you know, hospitals, clinics, psychiatrists,
whatever in California and Georgia, Florida. So yeah, a lot
of them are coming to the university and so we
have to coordinate care. A lot of our students that
we do see are on what's called you know, wrap
around treatment plans, so they're actually from the primary provider
is in Florida, Georgia or Illinois, and we get we
(08:40):
get their treatment plan, and we follow their treatment plan and.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
They go back and forth.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
So yeah, it's pretty comprehensive because it's university.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
You know, we have the breaks, they go back home,
they come back and forth and we share treatment plans
and monitor medications and things like that.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, and I know that's that's an important distinction I
think to make. Doctor Asht and I have done a
lot of training on the campus around suicide prevention, the
QPR work that we do, and I know that's come
up in some of our conversations, this idea that you know,
the university, in most universities aren't designed to be have
within them the capacity of a full service community behavioral
(09:18):
health center. Right, So you offer some services, but depending
on how serious the situation is for the student, and
again talking about mental health and substances, it may require
them to take a brief pause, as you say, from
their academics, to go where they need to go to
get more of those comprehensive services before they return.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Yeah, and again through any semester I've been there, people
will take breaks or go get other sort of treatment
while they're in treatment. In fact, we have a very
close relationship again with the apple Seed in Town and
our drugging up.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Sort of facility.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
So if our students will you know, they'll get services
of both of those agencies and some other ones as well.
But we either do case management with them or we
provide the counsel component and they'll get the medication component
somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
So it is. It is a networking systems approach, There's
no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, and again I we've always appreciated that you work
with our local providers whenever it makes sense to do.
So that's just sometimes Oscar and I presented it these things.
They call him town Gown conferences and the whole idea
of you know, where universities are at, particularly in smaller
communities like Ashen County.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
You know that relationship.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Between the town, if you will, and those at the
university can be without good I think communication and discussions,
it can be tens I've always found working with Oscar
to be the opposite of that, because he goes out
of his way to partner.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
As you say, we appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Well, again, I appreciate it because again I go to
buy directors meetings for all the counseling directors, for instance,
in the state of Ohiott universities, and I will tell
you that I know of over the years, none that
will deal with the community then too.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah, so I've gone. I've gone to a few different universities.
None of them have that connection with the wards in
the community. So I think it's a really special thing
that's happening here, and maybe more universities should should do that.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Yeah, you know, I don't. I don't want to get
too far off, but I don't understand it.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
I bring it up at my director's meetings all the time,
and some of them are online and some of them
are in physical I don't understand. I try to encourage
them to get involved with the local boards, the local
mental health agencies, and they absolutely refuse.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
And it may go both ways.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
I don't understand the separation personally because I'm thinking more
of the system sort of things. But you know, again,
you know, we already talked about I have we see
students were also involved with the community. They go back
and forth or even social services. The other thing we
have right now, we have eight of our students in
partial hospitalization programs, which means they go to school through
(11:41):
Friday and they go check in at the hospital on Friday,
you know, Saturday, Sunday, come back on Monday, and I'm
on their discharge planning team.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
We work with the wrap around plan.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
I couldn't imagine providing good counseling services without being involved
with other systems.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
It doesn't make sense to me. But it's it's very unique.
It is very yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Well.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
The other thing I've just I've always been amazed over
the years in talking with you, is, you know, because
the needs at the campus are so great, and even
with your two full times and your interns from time
to time, you know, the needs is always greater than
I think the capacity. So in order to meet that need,
you've just been so creative over the years, and a
(12:23):
lot of things you're creative with are now becoming more
in mainstream. But if you would ask her maybe talk
to the audience a little bit about some of the
kind of innovative ways you've tried to meet the needs
of the students given such a small amount of folks
that can do the work.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Yeah, that's a really good point because I always sort
of really happy with what we've done over the years,
because we've been doing telecounseling, video counseling back and forth
over fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
When that first people I ever heard of.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Yeah, nobody was doing at that time.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
In fact, again you talk about going to directors meetings,
they were absolutely terrified glorified that I would provide.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Consting services over the internet.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
And things have really changed now it's sort of now
they understand it's sort of it's exception. But I might
tell you there's big pushbacks even within the field about
doing teleconnstlting. But we started that fifteen years ago, doing
that part of it, and since that we've offered a
lot of other sort of innoventive sort of ways. We
do a lot of We do a lot of online surveys,
online and narratives where our clients technically keep online journals
(13:24):
that they can send to us, and that doesn't involve
weekly meetings. We set up sort of the program they
you know, they let us know what's going on by
these online sort of surveys and checklists and stuff like that.
They can monitor themselves and we can read that back
and forth. We also have drop in services, which I
can't speak enough highly of.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Our drop in services is.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Really it's online, right, and everybody knows the time that
we're available on my time. For instance, all of our
therapists have different times. My times, for instance on Friday
from two to four, so two to four to drop
They can drop in online. Okay, so they can drop
in and everybody knows that rules. We explain the rules
of everybody, so minimum I'll see them for fifteen minutes.
So I could see them for two hours, I suppose
(14:05):
it never happens that way, but they know the rules.
If somebody else pops in behind them, I let them
know somebody's waiting and they can come back later. But
what that has done, it is allowed. It is allowed
sort of safety in it. It has allowed us to
touch base with some people that normally won't be able
touch base till into their next appointment, which has prevented
a lot of crises from happening.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, and sometimes you know, ten to fifteen minutes is
all they need if they if they just wanted to
check in with you and make sure maybe a quick
question or make sure the direction that they're pursuing makes
sense or is it. Could it be that simple?
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Yes, yes, that's simple. What's interesting about you know, again,
I've been doing this for a long time. As far
as you online part of it. Online therapy is sort
of really different than traditional sit down, face to face
therapy that is always going to last your fifty five minutes,
fifty minutes, whatever's going to go there. But online, if
people come in with a different attitude. They're really coming
in with they have one concern and you got to
(15:00):
address it right now, right and we address it and
they're gone. It's it's very sort of you know, back
in the back in the day, it was sort of
a you know, uh breef strategic therapy. We thought it
back in the day. It's really just addressing sort of
the issue and getting on with it. But the students
who take advantage of that really embrace it and use it.
But nobody has has abused it as well. But that
(15:20):
walking sort of part has really really worked out.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Well. Yeah, I can't say enough about that.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
There's all the little fastest of the walk in sort
of services, but basically they have the ability to walk
in anytime on those days, on my days.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Anyway, do you think that drop in Do they tend
to be shorter sessions for you or are they longer?
Speaker 4 (15:39):
They tend to be shorter most of the time.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
When people drop in, they're looking for you know, we
have a treatment plan that sort of you know, if
it's a you know, they could have a social anxiety
for instance, in there and all of a sudden, now
they've got to present a paper in a class before
the class and it's on Friday or whatever. They will
they will drop in and say listen, okay, I'm going
through all they're doing, all the techniques that we've taught
(16:02):
to prepare for this stuff, and they just want to
reinforcement and yeah, so it's in and out and even
a lot of times again, mind are a little different
because my drop in times on Fridays, most of the Fridays,
and so for me, a lot of times people have
to prepare for the weekend, which is sometimes is not
exactly the easiest thing to do for college kids, sure,
but because a lot of them are fearful of going
(16:22):
home or fearful staying here. A lot of stuff going on,
so they will drop in. But a lot of the
times it's really solutions focused. They just want to check in,
make sure you know.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
They want to plan for the weekend.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Sometimes yeah, exactly doing to plan for the weekend for sometimes.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Now that's fascinating and I hope that catches on more
even in a community setting. And I've talked with some
of the directors and our community agencies about adopting some
of these things that you found to be helpful over
the years.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
The other one, and I know it's controversial.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
We won't go into all of the nuances, but it's
hard not to.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Be aware of the rise of AI.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Artificial intelligence and all kinds of industries, and believe it not,
even in the helping services like mental health and substance use.
So have you seen some of that oscar in some
of the groups in the meetings where there's a potential
that AI might have a place somehow in the counseling field.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Yeah, it's again I'm dealing with you know, eighteen year
olds to twenty two year olds, and so they're all
pretty much tech savvy.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
Right, And again, this is what the mental health system,
the community mental health system is going to see in
about twenty years. You know, they're growing into it. And
I think by the way, the community mental health system
has to prepare for this, Yes, they really have to
prepare for this. Yeah, you know, the technology, the artificial intelligence.
You have students who go to there's different sites that
provide online AI generated counselors. Okay, they can talk to
(17:44):
counselors online and all that stuff. And again I don't
discourage that. I actually encourage it because they're getting some
sort of feedback. But how we use the therapeutically is
a lot of those programs that they talk with you know,
they'll talk with it and the AI will give a response,
and I can't argue with a lot of the responses.
I always ask them to print it all out, and
so they'll print out and that's one of the things
the AI will do when you talk to the AI and.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Talk about transcript.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
So we have a transcript, and so what happens is
they will actually bring the transcript in my office when
we have our consting session and we can go through,
you know, what was good and what was bad, but
it was you know. Yeah, so it's interesting. It actually
a therapeutic tool. So I don't discourage it at all.
In fact, I encourage it because it gives us more
to focus on interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Know what you feel about this, doctor Ashley, but it's
you also do some youve got a side hustle where
you're working for one of the university.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So are the young kids talking about it?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
I think, yeah, there's some chatter about that. I think chatter,
just chatter, just general chatter. And professional counselors talk a
lot about AI. I think there's a lot of fear
surrounding it, like you know, AI is gonna take our
jobs or something like that.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
But I like that is a south Park call back,
go ahead, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I like how he's framing that though as more of
a counseling tool than like a replacement for counseling, right,
like that.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
It is a tool, and again you can't. You have
to lean you know anymore, you have to lean in
the technology. You can't avoid it. You can't repress it,
can't get rid of it. It's not going to go away,
you know. Again, I started again many years ago, doing
different fields, and I was in the school systems, school
systems many years ago.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
You still seem traumatized by that.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
I know I am traumatized. I have a lot of flashbacks.
But give you an idea of the technology stuff I was.
I was in the school systems when they were bringing
in TVs and Channel one if I don't know if
anybody I forgot about, I don't know if Channel right.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I know our demo was primarily over sixty five.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
It's perfect.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Well, the teachers and teachers unions were a little upset,
little guarded about these TVs coming in and teaching their class.
So again, anyway, the whole fear of technology goes back
to TVs being brought in.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
You know, they're always sort of.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Fearful, But I think there's TVs in class.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Nobody fears that.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
You know, they turn it on and they leave and.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
Turn it on, and you know, big sixty five inch,
you know, high depths.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Well used.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Just a slight rabbit trail, just because Oscar always does
this to me. He brings up these great things and
it makes me think of some of my favorite movies.
And one of my favorite movies was Back to School,
uh starting Rodney Dangerfield. Anyway, Rodnie was going back to school.
His son was also going to the same college. And
there's a great scene where I think it was the
(20:27):
sun was in the classroom and the professor was up front,
you know, teaching.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Now mind you this this film is about thirty forty
years old.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And uh, when they first started, first day class packed
full of students, you know, professor up there.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Second day of class, you know, like half.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
The students are gone and they just have their their
tape recorders instead of that, you know, and they're just
taping it. And then by like the third of the
fourth session, he was the only one there and at
the front of the classroom the professor had recorded himself,
uh on a reel to reel and theyre and it
just again, that's thirty forty years ago. But the idea
of do we really need to be present in the
(21:06):
class or to learn or is it what was so
innovative I thought about that movie, whether they intended it
or not, was that, yes, the technology could go places
that we weren't really thinking about, and it was it
was it was meant to be funny.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
But that's exactly what's happened.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Now we've got remote and distant learning where you know,
you don't have to be live and present. You can
take courses almost exclusively online and nobody's live presenting most
of the time.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
We can do that, but you don't have to. So
it's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
No, you're right, David.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
You know, again, in the education world, if you look
at graduate schools, you know, the last number I saw
sixty percent of all graduate programs are taught online.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Yeah, and so you know, again that's all phasing you know,
phasing out. You can get your NBA completely online. You
can get a cossing degree online.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
I mean that's even changed in just the time that
I've been out of grad school in like the last
ten years, because when I was in school, that was
still like people are like, oh, you're in an online
count program and look down on that. Yeah, But that's
different now. And I think most counseling programs are I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
A lot of them are well, I know Oscar still
has to advocate sometimes because I think some of the
folks that you supervisor or shepherd, they want to do
some of their their counseling credits online, right, And depending
on who you're talking with, there might be some pushback like, well,
that's not real counseling if you're doing it online kind
of a thing.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
Yeah, it depends on which it's school dependent. Some universities
absolutely forbid it, you know, they don't want other universities
that their entire program is one online.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
In fact, you know, the.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Last my last five interns have been strictly online, right,
strictly online program. But here's the difference is they get
all the academic bookwork online, all the theories, all the
process and all the different things you have to know
as a professional, but they still get the in person,
Like they're following me, they're learning from me, they're seeing
real clients. They still have to do it in person,
(22:57):
you know, practicum or internships, so they get the really
roots of what you have to do to be a counselor.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, well I like it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
It's a hybrid, it's a combination, and I like what
Oscar said about we have to embrace some of these things,
you know, not without a critical lens. It's not that
we shouldn't look critically in the best way to utilize
the technology, but running from it doesn't seem like a
wise course.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, I think you can use it to enhance what
we're already doing. Think of it that way.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, well you perfect lead into our last topic.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Oscar.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
And just for the audience, you know, we're speaking with
doctor Oscar McKnight. He just goes by Oscar though, and
he's the associating the students director of the psychological Counseling
and Sending services as well as the health Center over
at Ashley University. The board has contracted with Oscar over
the years for sometimes what we call community needs assessment.
(23:50):
He's helped us out. The board has a local levee
that we very much appreciate. The community helps support the
mental health services and substance youse services that we fund,
and Oscar has helped us with that because we want
to know what we're doing right, well, we're not doing right,
what we can do better in and and some of
his community needs assessments over the years of help helped
(24:11):
us with that and recently the board made the decision
to again work with doctor mcnight around getting ready for.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Our next levee.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So i'd ask Oscar if he might talk because he's
again he's using some of this new technology, you know,
because getting survey responses is not easy. So uh, Oscar
shared with me and my board some unique ways maybe
that we can get the information we need that will
help shape what kind of levee we run in November,
(24:41):
but also maybe some of the messaging. So if you
could Askar in the next few minutes, maybe talk a
little bit about some of how that technology. Because other
counties besides ours, do levy. So for some of my
colleagues that listen, you may want to contact Oscar about this,
but maybe talk a little bit about what you're doing
with our prep.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
For the Yeah, and again I just give you a
historical perspective because I think the first levey I ever
helped out in Nashal County was something like nineteen ninety
five or something was. It was a while ago, and
since that time there's been several levees. But this now,
you've had a long time without a levee. Now, I
mean it's been a long.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Well, we've had it since two thousand and one.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
It's been a while, but again how we've run those
have been different. And originally when we did things, we
had major groups and tried to survey them and go
on the street and talk to them and all that
sort of stuff. In fact, one of them we used
to go to all the laundromats and stuff like that
talk to people. They were, yeah, they were Walmart, you know,
anywhere there was people. We tried to talk to them.
(25:39):
But again, now you know people are busy, it's stuff
to go out there, the weather stuff. You can't really
get people to engage on the street like you used
to or in laundromats, And so we went went more
to sort of an online sort of profile our program,
I should say, to sort of solicit information. It's really
considered in survey research a snowball approach. So what we
(26:02):
do is we take a we start off with a
group of sort of expert panel, we call them expert people.
We send them are survey right, and they fill out
about what they like about the levee, don't like about
the levee, any comments, are concerned.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
It's real simple, it's all. It's all.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
They write little essays comments on there. But then what
they do is they tended they will send it to
ten of their friends, and their friends will send it
to ten of their friends, and what happens is a
snowball effect, and eventually we'll get, you know, one hundred
and two hundred sort of comments that just automatically go
out there, and then we'll analyze that and come up
with sort of concepts. But what I like about that
is the fact that it's it's truly anonymous, and because
(26:38):
it's sort of you just fill in this thing, they
will say whatever they want. Sometimes if you do focus
groups with people, they they don't want to sort of
say what they really think, right, or even if you're
if you know the identity, they don't want see it.
But because these are all anonymous and we get we
ask both sides, it's not one side, and we ask
what you know, what's good? Why should people vote for
the levy and why should they not? Than their general comments,
(27:02):
we get really honest answers. So anyway, you'll get a
lot of sort of honest responses from the from the public, right,
which is.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
What we're looking for, because we really want to know,
you know, how we're doing in the eyes of the
folks that are answering, so.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Yeah, but also not only it also provides sort of
you know, I'm looking at some of the responses now,
it also provides almost a needs assessment because they will
say what they're not getting that's right, that's right, or
they'll say what they're getting and why they would support
a levy yep. So it'll give you a lot of
information about the levy, but also for the fact what
are people needing that's right yea, or appreciating.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Just from like a researcher perspective too. I thought it
was really good that it's like a simple survey, so
it's not going to take people a lot of time
to complete it. The questions are pretty simple, but it's
open enough that we can get all of that information,
like you're saying that we can use to make decisions
about the levee.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Right, and one of the things, you know, listeners, because
some of you might say, hey, hey, how can I
participate in this there I've got some things to say. Well,
we will have a link to the survey in the
episode description. We would encourage you to take that. As
doctor Ashley said, it takes less than five minutes.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
It really does.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
It's very simple, but we would love your feedback on that.
It will help us as we prepare for the for
the levey.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
And remember when they take it, send it to five
over their friends tend to that's right, send it all over.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Well, that was a challenge, you know, doctor Ashley. You know,
I asked me. She's like, you know, boss, you don't
have ten friends. What are you going to do?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
And I've been challenged, Oscar, I really have, So I
just send it to the same person ten times.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
But I don't know if that's That's okay. It made
me feel better.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Anything else that you wanted to talk about with this
this survey that you're helping us with no just you will.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Get a comprehensive review.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
And again, what I like about it is, you know,
we start off as sort of an expert panel which
everybody sort of supports the board, and so you expect
everything to be positive and nothing to be you know,
nobody to give a reason.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
I nobody would vote for the levee.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
But it's been pretty balanced and you can start seeing
now when they send it out to the friends, you're
getting more balanced responses. So you're going to get some
great concepts from it, you know, as far as you know. Again,
like I said, it helps the levee, but for me,
it's more of a needs assessment because it's telling you
what the community thinks is good, not so good, what
they need and what they appreciate.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
I think this is an example of how the relationship
between the board and the university benefits both. So like
having that connection with Oscar and his insight about research,
and like he's helping us with our levee campaign, just
another reason that that's a critical relationship.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, he helps with the campaign, but he's also helping
us have another source of input about the services that
needs the satisfaction, which we already do some things, but
this is different and it really supplements what we're doing.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
So I want to say one last thing about that
is people really appreciate it that it's done by independent
source and not doing it yourself.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
It makes it more.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
You know, people always say if you're and it doesn't
it's anybody. If you're doing it needs a cesstomer of
customer service stuff and you're doing it yourself, people have
a tendency that's really the answer correctly right when it's
done from an outside party, they feel the free to say, hey,
I think you because I get that I think you
should know this, right, I think you should know this
about them. So again you get a really honest, honest
(30:19):
and honest input from people.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
That's what we want.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Good points.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, well, as you can tell, there's much more we
can talk about with Oscar. We're hoping to have him
on the show again and again if I can persuade
him to do that. Feel free to let us know
if you'd like to to hear Oscar more.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
We need, like an Oscar segment probably.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Does at least at least a minute with Oscar.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, well, Oscar, you know, we see each other, we
stay in touch on a regular basis. But all I
can say is thank you for not just for today,
but for your ongoing partnership through the years and friendship. Personally,
You've just been a wonderful person. Uh, And you've been
(31:03):
a stalwart at the university and just the services that
you provide. I mean, it's really in kaucuable. I don't
know if you've ever thought about this, Oscar, all the
young lies that you've touched in a positive way over
the years. It's really hard to even count those up.
So for all you've done and you continue to do, Oscar,
we appreciate you and thank you so much for being
on the show.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Thanks, thanks for the invitation.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Keeping
Ashland Healthy podcast. The podcast is a production of the
Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio. You
can reach the Board by calling four one nine two
eight one three one three nine. Please remember that the
Board funds a local twenty four to seven crisis line
through Applese Community Mental Health Center.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
It can be reached by.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Calling four one nine two eight nine six to one
one one. That's four one nine two eight nine six
to one one one. Until next time, Please join us
in keeping Ashland Healthy.
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a podcast
production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Thanks for joining us and.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to another episode are the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast?
In studio doctor Ashley. Well, first, Doctor Ashley.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm good?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
How are you doing well?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm so excited because in the studio Mental Health Recovery
Board studios with us is a longtime friend of mine, colleague,
and uh just somebody'd been wanting to get on the
podcast forever, Doctor Oscar McKnight.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Welcome, doctor Oscar.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Do I have to call you doctor Oscarbody.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Calls me doctor Oscar? Just Oscar. Nobody calls me doctor.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Okay, all right, good good. That's good to know.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I mean, I feel like you've been making me call
you doctor for all these years. So now I'm learning
something that finally I can drop that.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Drop that, just Oscar. Remember I have a PhD.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
None of MD, I see I see PhD just spells
fun that Well.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Oscar and I go back almost since the start of
my career here at the Mental Health and Recovery Board,
so for almost twenty years, he and I and my
former mentor and boss, Steve Stone, would get together regularly
to have coffee, but have I think, really good discussions
about what's going on at Ashleton University, because that's where
(01:22):
Oscar has worked all.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
This time that I've known him.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
You know, to talk about what's going on in the community,
what's going on at the university, and you know kind
of the relationships between those two things. Oscar, because he
works at the university, he's always been at the cutting
edge on what the young people are interested in. He
also is very involved with understanding how private practices and
other service models have developed over the years, and they
(01:49):
really have changed over the last twenty some years. So
we're going to get into some of that later. But Oscar,
your official bio I have in front of me. It's
very impressive. I had to cut it down just for
the link of this podcast. You are the associate Deenis
Students at the university as well as the director of
the psychological Counseling Services. We will put some of that
information in the podcast description because I know some of
(02:12):
you are driving as you listen, and I don't want
you to be distracted, so we will have that information.
If you want to follow with doctor Oscar or just
Oscar on anything he says today. But Oscar tell us
a little bit before we jump in. You know, you know,
you've been doing this work for a while. You know,
I don't want to put a definite age on you,
but I mean, come on, now, you've been around a
(02:34):
little while, So tell us a little bit the abbreviated
the abbreviated version of kind of like what got you
started excited? And how'd you end up at AU because
you're not from here. I think you might be from
like Youngstown or something.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
I spent my time in Youngstown and yeah, yeah, that's
where I'm froun Youngstown. But no, I started a long
time ago. You're right, started even before there was a
license in counseling.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Wow, that's wild.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
I started the drugging alcohol in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
Wow, So you do the math as far so long
I've been sort of involved with this sort of field.
But like you said, though, it has changed dramatically over
the years from what we did in nineteen seventy six
to now.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah, big big difference, right, big big difference.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
But again, even in our affiliation, you know, you work with
me and me working with you and all stuff I
come from. I have a lot of background drug and alcohol,
public mental health, psych after hospitals, all the different things.
And I found out real early it's a systems approach.
Nobody can do it in isolation. And that's why I've always,
you know, wanted to be involved with the you know,
the mental health board.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, and I know you work for children's services for
a time.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
I am still I forget sometimes I'm still a licensed
social worker. I was an investigative social worker, yes I was.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Cool.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So, yeah, that systems work.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
We've talked about that a lot over the years with Oscar,
doctor Ashley, and and that's why we've loved the partnership
because you know, to have somebody that's been at the
university for as long as Oscar has, he has a
real insight as to what's going on, you know, not
only with AU, but he just he gets systems working.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Why it matters.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I think that's awesome and I'm really excited. I don't know,
I don't know this history about you, Oscar, so it's
my first time hearing that. It's really cool.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, well, you know, he's very tight lip.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I know he doesn't tell me that stuff coffee?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So how long though? At AU?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Over? Thirty years? Thirty two years?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah? Was it? Do you remember? I know this is
going back. I don't know if you had your jaritol,
but you know, do you remember what drew you to AU?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
I accidentally fell into AU?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
I was actually working another agency and got a phone
call one day asked me if I wanted to come
an interview for.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
This position okay?
Speaker 5 (04:38):
And I said, I don't even know what position you're
talking about. Yeah, And they said, you know, it's a
constant center and all this sort of stuff. Then they
said it was Ashley and I said Ashland, Kentucky because
I had no idea where Ashland was at that time. Okay,
So anyway, so I you know, I said, yeah, I'll
come for an interview.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I thought it was kind of interesting.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, was at Ashton College or Ashland University?
Speaker 5 (04:57):
It was that Ashland University at okay. But but what happened was,
you know, I was pretty excited about the whole thing.
Somebody called me, you know, I said, that's pretty impressive.
You know, they must have read something about me. But anyway,
I told her. I called home at lunch because I
was working at lunch. I called home at lunch, told
my wife what happened somebody called me and all that stuff,
and she said, oh, yeah, was it Actional University? I said, yeah,
(05:18):
it's a matter. As a matter of fact, it was
and she said good. I sent your resume there a
month ago. So anyway, it was my wife who sort
of get that.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
That's a great story.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So she was trying to help you, maybe branch out
into another area.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Yeah, yeah, she wanted to help me.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And they say, Ashley is history.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
So tell us a little bit about you know, your
day to day there at the university. I mean it
says you're Associate Dean of Students and director of the
Psychological Counseling Service, so you know, I know it's changed
over the years, but kind of currently what what's your
day look like there over an AU But.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
One thing you missed off my tit I'm also the
director of the health center.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Ope, sorry for the health center.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Just a little correction there. We could edit that out,
but I.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Don't know we're going to keep that.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
No, No, my day is again, you know, a typical
sort of I shouldn't even say that because it gets
into how we deliver service. It's not a typical day.
The university technically is open from eight to eight to
five or eight to four, depending on where the health
center versus the counseling center.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
But the bottom line, in order to meet need, we
flex our schedule.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
So, for instance, saw many days Monday for instance, and
Friday for instance, I start at seven o'clock in the morning.
And the reason I start early is because I work
remotely on those days. And the reason I work remote there,
which means I do video feed or some form like that.
The reason I do that is because students go to
their internships or their co ops or their student teaching,
(06:45):
and so I see them before they go into their
student teaching or before they go into their job sort
of things. So we flex our schedule quite a bit.
And the reverse is true too. My other therapist might myself.
We also see people in the evening because people go
just student teaching, or they go to their internships and
they don't get back until five or five thirty or
something like that, and so we will see them at
(07:06):
six and seven. So we flex our schedule quite a
bit in order to meet the needs of the students there.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, and again how many folks are available to see
students the university is fairly large. I have to imagine
the need is such you probably have twenty or thirty
different folks working.
Speaker 5 (07:23):
At least thirty I think, in fact, I don't even
know half their names and tell you to shoot there
so many.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Now we have two full time therapists, oh, full time therapist.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Two full time therapists. Wow, and again really great, great
people and they do the same as me. They have
they flex their hours as well. But I do have
this semester here I have two interns, two nateral level interns,
and they're finishing up. They'll get their their degree and
their license shortly in May. Let's create that so sometimes
I'll have interns, so that counteracts everything. And we did
(07:53):
get a grant, a federal grant that we have a
case manager grant, which the grant ends up this year.
But the case management services has been really you know,
we talked about systems approach. Our case manager does so
much that we didn't even realize we had that much
of a need for as far as coordinating services with
outside parties.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I see, right, because a lot of the students that
go to the university, some are from the area, but
a lot of times they're either outside the county or
even outside the state.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Is that correct.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Our case manager deals with you know, hospitals, clinics, psychiatrists,
whatever in California and Georgia, Florida. So yeah, a lot
of them are coming to the university and so we
have to coordinate care. A lot of our students that
we do see are on what's called you know, wrap
around treatment plans, so they're actually from the primary provider
is in Florida, Georgia or Illinois, and we get we
(08:40):
get their treatment plan, and we follow their treatment plan and.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
They go back and forth.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
So yeah, it's pretty comprehensive because it's university.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
You know, we have the breaks, they go back home,
they come back and forth and we share treatment plans
and monitor medications and things like that.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, and I know that's that's an important distinction I
think to make. Doctor Asht and I have done a
lot of training on the campus around suicide prevention, the
QPR work that we do, and I know that's come
up in some of our conversations, this idea that you know,
the university, in most universities aren't designed to be have
within them the capacity of a full service community behavioral
(09:18):
health center. Right, So you offer some services, but depending
on how serious the situation is for the student, and
again talking about mental health and substances, it may require
them to take a brief pause, as you say, from
their academics, to go where they need to go to
get more of those comprehensive services before they return.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Yeah, and again through any semester I've been there, people
will take breaks or go get other sort of treatment
while they're in treatment. In fact, we have a very
close relationship again with the apple Seed in Town and
our drugging up.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Sort of facility.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
So if our students will you know, they'll get services
of both of those agencies and some other ones as well.
But we either do case management with them or we
provide the counsel component and they'll get the medication component
somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
So it is. It is a networking systems approach, There's
no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, and again I we've always appreciated that you work
with our local providers whenever it makes sense to do.
So that's just sometimes Oscar and I presented it these things.
They call him town Gown conferences and the whole idea
of you know, where universities are at, particularly in smaller
communities like Ashen County.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
You know that relationship.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Between the town, if you will, and those at the
university can be without good I think communication and discussions,
it can be tens I've always found working with Oscar
to be the opposite of that, because he goes out
of his way to partner.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
As you say, we appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Well, again, I appreciate it because again I go to
buy directors meetings for all the counseling directors, for instance,
in the state of Ohiott universities, and I will tell
you that I know of over the years, none that
will deal with the community then too.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah, so I've gone. I've gone to a few different universities.
None of them have that connection with the wards in
the community. So I think it's a really special thing
that's happening here, and maybe more universities should should do that.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Yeah, you know, I don't. I don't want to get
too far off, but I don't understand it.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
I bring it up at my director's meetings all the time,
and some of them are online and some of them
are in physical I don't understand. I try to encourage
them to get involved with the local boards, the local
mental health agencies, and they absolutely refuse.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
And it may go both ways.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
I don't understand the separation personally because I'm thinking more
of the system sort of things. But you know, again,
you know, we already talked about I have we see
students were also involved with the community. They go back
and forth or even social services. The other thing we
have right now, we have eight of our students in
partial hospitalization programs, which means they go to school through
(11:41):
Friday and they go check in at the hospital on Friday,
you know, Saturday, Sunday, come back on Monday, and I'm
on their discharge planning team.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
We work with the wrap around plan.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
I couldn't imagine providing good counseling services without being involved
with other systems.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
It doesn't make sense to me. But it's it's very unique.
It is very yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Well.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
The other thing I've just I've always been amazed over
the years in talking with you, is, you know, because
the needs at the campus are so great, and even
with your two full times and your interns from time
to time, you know, the needs is always greater than
I think the capacity. So in order to meet that need,
you've just been so creative over the years, and a
(12:23):
lot of things you're creative with are now becoming more
in mainstream. But if you would ask her maybe talk
to the audience a little bit about some of the
kind of innovative ways you've tried to meet the needs
of the students given such a small amount of folks
that can do the work.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Yeah, that's a really good point because I always sort
of really happy with what we've done over the years,
because we've been doing telecounseling, video counseling back and forth
over fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
When that first people I ever heard of.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Yeah, nobody was doing at that time.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
In fact, again you talk about going to directors meetings,
they were absolutely terrified glorified that I would provide.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Consting services over the internet.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
And things have really changed now it's sort of now
they understand it's sort of it's exception. But I might
tell you there's big pushbacks even within the field about
doing teleconnstlting. But we started that fifteen years ago, doing
that part of it, and since that we've offered a
lot of other sort of innoventive sort of ways. We
do a lot of We do a lot of online surveys,
online and narratives where our clients technically keep online journals
(13:24):
that they can send to us, and that doesn't involve
weekly meetings. We set up sort of the program they
you know, they let us know what's going on by
these online sort of surveys and checklists and stuff like that.
They can monitor themselves and we can read that back
and forth. We also have drop in services, which I
can't speak enough highly of.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Our drop in services is.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Really it's online, right, and everybody knows the time that
we're available on my time. For instance, all of our
therapists have different times. My times, for instance on Friday
from two to four, so two to four to drop
They can drop in online. Okay, so they can drop
in and everybody knows that rules. We explain the rules
of everybody, so minimum I'll see them for fifteen minutes.
So I could see them for two hours, I suppose
(14:05):
it never happens that way, but they know the rules.
If somebody else pops in behind them, I let them
know somebody's waiting and they can come back later. But
what that has done, it is allowed. It is allowed
sort of safety in it. It has allowed us to
touch base with some people that normally won't be able
touch base till into their next appointment, which has prevented
a lot of crises from happening.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, and sometimes you know, ten to fifteen minutes is
all they need if they if they just wanted to
check in with you and make sure maybe a quick
question or make sure the direction that they're pursuing makes
sense or is it. Could it be that simple?
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Yes, yes, that's simple. What's interesting about you know, again,
I've been doing this for a long time. As far
as you online part of it. Online therapy is sort
of really different than traditional sit down, face to face
therapy that is always going to last your fifty five minutes,
fifty minutes, whatever's going to go there. But online, if
people come in with a different attitude. They're really coming
in with they have one concern and you got to
(15:00):
address it right now, right and we address it and
they're gone. It's it's very sort of you know, back
in the back in the day, it was sort of
a you know, uh breef strategic therapy. We thought it
back in the day. It's really just addressing sort of
the issue and getting on with it. But the students
who take advantage of that really embrace it and use it.
But nobody has has abused it as well. But that
(15:20):
walking sort of part has really really worked out.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Well. Yeah, I can't say enough about that.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
There's all the little fastest of the walk in sort
of services, but basically they have the ability to walk
in anytime on those days, on my days.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Anyway, do you think that drop in Do they tend
to be shorter sessions for you or are they longer?
Speaker 4 (15:39):
They tend to be shorter most of the time.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
When people drop in, they're looking for you know, we
have a treatment plan that sort of you know, if
it's a you know, they could have a social anxiety
for instance, in there and all of a sudden, now
they've got to present a paper in a class before
the class and it's on Friday or whatever. They will
they will drop in and say listen, okay, I'm going
through all they're doing, all the techniques that we've taught
(16:02):
to prepare for this stuff, and they just want to
reinforcement and yeah, so it's in and out and even
a lot of times again, mind are a little different
because my drop in times on Fridays, most of the Fridays,
and so for me, a lot of times people have
to prepare for the weekend, which is sometimes is not
exactly the easiest thing to do for college kids, sure,
but because a lot of them are fearful of going
(16:22):
home or fearful staying here. A lot of stuff going on,
so they will drop in. But a lot of the
times it's really solutions focused. They just want to check in,
make sure you know.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
They want to plan for the weekend.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Sometimes yeah, exactly doing to plan for the weekend for sometimes.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Now that's fascinating and I hope that catches on more
even in a community setting. And I've talked with some
of the directors and our community agencies about adopting some
of these things that you found to be helpful over
the years.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
The other one, and I know it's controversial.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
We won't go into all of the nuances, but it's
hard not to.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Be aware of the rise of AI.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Artificial intelligence and all kinds of industries, and believe it not,
even in the helping services like mental health and substance use.
So have you seen some of that oscar in some
of the groups in the meetings where there's a potential
that AI might have a place somehow in the counseling field.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Yeah, it's again I'm dealing with you know, eighteen year
olds to twenty two year olds, and so they're all
pretty much tech savvy.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:20):
Right, And again, this is what the mental health system,
the community mental health system is going to see in
about twenty years. You know, they're growing into it. And
I think by the way, the community mental health system
has to prepare for this, Yes, they really have to
prepare for this. Yeah, you know, the technology, the artificial intelligence.
You have students who go to there's different sites that
provide online AI generated counselors. Okay, they can talk to
(17:44):
counselors online and all that stuff. And again I don't
discourage that. I actually encourage it because they're getting some
sort of feedback. But how we use the therapeutically is
a lot of those programs that they talk with you know,
they'll talk with it and the AI will give a response,
and I can't argue with a lot of the responses.
I always ask them to print it all out, and
so they'll print out and that's one of the things
the AI will do when you talk to the AI and.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Talk about transcript.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
So we have a transcript, and so what happens is
they will actually bring the transcript in my office when
we have our consting session and we can go through,
you know, what was good and what was bad, but
it was you know. Yeah, so it's interesting. It actually
a therapeutic tool. So I don't discourage it at all.
In fact, I encourage it because it gives us more
to focus on interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Know what you feel about this, doctor Ashley, but it's
you also do some youve got a side hustle where
you're working for one of the university.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
So are the young kids talking about it?
Speaker 3 (18:36):
I think, yeah, there's some chatter about that. I think chatter,
just chatter, just general chatter. And professional counselors talk a
lot about AI. I think there's a lot of fear
surrounding it, like you know, AI is gonna take our
jobs or something like that.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
But I like that is a south Park call back,
go ahead, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I like how he's framing that though as more of
a counseling tool than like a replacement for counseling, right,
like that.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
It is a tool, and again you can't. You have
to lean you know anymore, you have to lean in
the technology. You can't avoid it. You can't repress it,
can't get rid of it. It's not going to go away,
you know. Again, I started again many years ago, doing
different fields, and I was in the school systems, school
systems many years ago.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
You still seem traumatized by that.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
I know I am traumatized. I have a lot of flashbacks.
But give you an idea of the technology stuff I was.
I was in the school systems when they were bringing
in TVs and Channel one if I don't know if
anybody I forgot about, I don't know if Channel right.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I know our demo was primarily over sixty five.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
It's perfect.
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Well, the teachers and teachers unions were a little upset,
little guarded about these TVs coming in and teaching their class.
So again, anyway, the whole fear of technology goes back
to TVs being brought in.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
You know, they're always sort of.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
Fearful, But I think there's TVs in class.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Nobody fears that.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
You know, they turn it on and they leave and.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
Turn it on, and you know, big sixty five inch,
you know, high depths.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Well used.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Just a slight rabbit trail, just because Oscar always does
this to me. He brings up these great things and
it makes me think of some of my favorite movies.
And one of my favorite movies was Back to School,
uh starting Rodney Dangerfield. Anyway, Rodnie was going back to school.
His son was also going to the same college. And
there's a great scene where I think it was the
(20:27):
sun was in the classroom and the professor was up front,
you know, teaching.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Now mind you this this film is about thirty forty
years old.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And uh, when they first started, first day class packed
full of students, you know, professor up there.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Second day of class, you know, like half.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
The students are gone and they just have their their
tape recorders instead of that, you know, and they're just
taping it. And then by like the third of the
fourth session, he was the only one there and at
the front of the classroom the professor had recorded himself,
uh on a reel to reel and theyre and it
just again, that's thirty forty years ago. But the idea
of do we really need to be present in the
(21:06):
class or to learn or is it what was so
innovative I thought about that movie, whether they intended it
or not, was that, yes, the technology could go places
that we weren't really thinking about, and it was it
was it was meant to be funny.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
But that's exactly what's happened.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Now we've got remote and distant learning where you know,
you don't have to be live and present. You can
take courses almost exclusively online and nobody's live presenting most
of the time.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
We can do that, but you don't have to. So
it's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
No, you're right, David.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
You know, again, in the education world, if you look
at graduate schools, you know, the last number I saw
sixty percent of all graduate programs are taught online.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
Yeah, and so you know, again that's all phasing you know,
phasing out. You can get your NBA completely online. You
can get a cossing degree online.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
I mean that's even changed in just the time that
I've been out of grad school in like the last
ten years, because when I was in school, that was
still like people are like, oh, you're in an online
count program and look down on that. Yeah, But that's
different now. And I think most counseling programs are I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
A lot of them are well, I know Oscar still
has to advocate sometimes because I think some of the
folks that you supervisor or shepherd, they want to do
some of their their counseling credits online, right, And depending
on who you're talking with, there might be some pushback like, well,
that's not real counseling if you're doing it online kind
of a thing.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
Yeah, it depends on which it's school dependent. Some universities
absolutely forbid it, you know, they don't want other universities
that their entire program is one online.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
In fact, you know, the.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Last my last five interns have been strictly online, right,
strictly online program. But here's the difference is they get
all the academic bookwork online, all the theories, all the
process and all the different things you have to know
as a professional, but they still get the in person,
Like they're following me, they're learning from me, they're seeing
real clients. They still have to do it in person,
(22:57):
you know, practicum or internships, so they get the really
roots of what you have to do to be a counselor.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, well I like it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
It's a hybrid, it's a combination, and I like what
Oscar said about we have to embrace some of these things,
you know, not without a critical lens. It's not that
we shouldn't look critically in the best way to utilize
the technology, but running from it doesn't seem like a
wise course.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, I think you can use it to enhance what
we're already doing. Think of it that way.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, well you perfect lead into our last topic.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Oscar.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
And just for the audience, you know, we're speaking with
doctor Oscar McKnight. He just goes by Oscar though, and
he's the associating the students director of the psychological Counseling
and Sending services as well as the health Center over
at Ashley University. The board has contracted with Oscar over
the years for sometimes what we call community needs assessment.
(23:50):
He's helped us out. The board has a local levee
that we very much appreciate. The community helps support the
mental health services and substance youse services that we fund,
and Oscar has helped us with that because we want
to know what we're doing right, well, we're not doing right,
what we can do better in and and some of
his community needs assessments over the years of help helped
(24:11):
us with that and recently the board made the decision
to again work with doctor mcnight around getting ready for.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Our next levee.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
So i'd ask Oscar if he might talk because he's
again he's using some of this new technology, you know,
because getting survey responses is not easy. So uh, Oscar
shared with me and my board some unique ways maybe
that we can get the information we need that will
help shape what kind of levee we run in November,
(24:41):
but also maybe some of the messaging. So if you
could Askar in the next few minutes, maybe talk a
little bit about some of how that technology. Because other
counties besides ours, do levy. So for some of my
colleagues that listen, you may want to contact Oscar about this,
but maybe talk a little bit about what you're doing
with our prep.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
For the Yeah, and again I just give you a
historical perspective because I think the first levey I ever
helped out in Nashal County was something like nineteen ninety
five or something was. It was a while ago, and
since that time there's been several levees. But this now,
you've had a long time without a levee. Now, I
mean it's been a long.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Well, we've had it since two thousand and one.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
It's been a while, but again how we've run those
have been different. And originally when we did things, we
had major groups and tried to survey them and go
on the street and talk to them and all that
sort of stuff. In fact, one of them we used
to go to all the laundromats and stuff like that
talk to people. They were, yeah, they were Walmart, you know,
anywhere there was people. We tried to talk to them.
(25:39):
But again, now you know people are busy, it's stuff
to go out there, the weather stuff. You can't really
get people to engage on the street like you used
to or in laundromats, And so we went went more
to sort of an online sort of profile our program,
I should say, to sort of solicit information. It's really
considered in survey research a snowball approach. So what we
(26:02):
do is we take a we start off with a
group of sort of expert panel, we call them expert people.
We send them are survey right, and they fill out
about what they like about the levee, don't like about
the levee, any comments, are concerned.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
It's real simple, it's all. It's all.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
They write little essays comments on there. But then what
they do is they tended they will send it to
ten of their friends, and their friends will send it
to ten of their friends, and what happens is a
snowball effect, and eventually we'll get, you know, one hundred
and two hundred sort of comments that just automatically go
out there, and then we'll analyze that and come up
with sort of concepts. But what I like about that
is the fact that it's it's truly anonymous, and because
(26:38):
it's sort of you just fill in this thing, they
will say whatever they want. Sometimes if you do focus
groups with people, they they don't want to sort of
say what they really think, right, or even if you're
if you know the identity, they don't want see it.
But because these are all anonymous and we get we
ask both sides, it's not one side, and we ask
what you know, what's good? Why should people vote for
the levy and why should they not? Than their general comments,
(27:02):
we get really honest answers. So anyway, you'll get a
lot of sort of honest responses from the from the public, right,
which is.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
What we're looking for, because we really want to know,
you know, how we're doing in the eyes of the
folks that are answering, so.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Yeah, but also not only it also provides sort of
you know, I'm looking at some of the responses now,
it also provides almost a needs assessment because they will
say what they're not getting that's right, that's right, or
they'll say what they're getting and why they would support
a levy yep. So it'll give you a lot of
information about the levy, but also for the fact what
are people needing that's right yea, or appreciating.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
Just from like a researcher perspective too. I thought it
was really good that it's like a simple survey, so
it's not going to take people a lot of time
to complete it. The questions are pretty simple, but it's
open enough that we can get all of that information,
like you're saying that we can use to make decisions
about the levee.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Right, and one of the things, you know, listeners, because
some of you might say, hey, hey, how can I
participate in this there I've got some things to say. Well,
we will have a link to the survey in the
episode description. We would encourage you to take that. As
doctor Ashley said, it takes less than five minutes.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
It really does.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
It's very simple, but we would love your feedback on that.
It will help us as we prepare for the for
the levey.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
And remember when they take it, send it to five
over their friends tend to that's right, send it all over.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Well, that was a challenge, you know, doctor Ashley. You know,
I asked me. She's like, you know, boss, you don't
have ten friends. What are you going to do?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
And I've been challenged, Oscar, I really have, So I
just send it to the same person ten times.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
But I don't know if that's That's okay. It made
me feel better.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Anything else that you wanted to talk about with this
this survey that you're helping us with no just you will.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Get a comprehensive review.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
And again, what I like about it is, you know,
we start off as sort of an expert panel which
everybody sort of supports the board, and so you expect
everything to be positive and nothing to be you know,
nobody to give a reason.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
I nobody would vote for the levee.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
But it's been pretty balanced and you can start seeing
now when they send it out to the friends, you're
getting more balanced responses. So you're going to get some
great concepts from it, you know, as far as you know. Again,
like I said, it helps the levee, but for me,
it's more of a needs assessment because it's telling you
what the community thinks is good, not so good, what
they need and what they appreciate.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
I think this is an example of how the relationship
between the board and the university benefits both. So like
having that connection with Oscar and his insight about research,
and like he's helping us with our levee campaign, just
another reason that that's a critical relationship.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, he helps with the campaign, but he's also helping
us have another source of input about the services that
needs the satisfaction, which we already do some things, but
this is different and it really supplements what we're doing.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
So I want to say one last thing about that
is people really appreciate it that it's done by independent
source and not doing it yourself.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
It makes it more.
Speaker 5 (29:58):
You know, people always say if you're and it doesn't
it's anybody. If you're doing it needs a cesstomer of
customer service stuff and you're doing it yourself, people have
a tendency that's really the answer correctly right when it's
done from an outside party, they feel the free to say, hey,
I think you because I get that I think you
should know this, right, I think you should know this
about them. So again you get a really honest, honest
(30:19):
and honest input from people.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
That's what we want.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Good points.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, well, as you can tell, there's much more we
can talk about with Oscar. We're hoping to have him
on the show again and again if I can persuade
him to do that. Feel free to let us know
if you'd like to to hear Oscar more.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
We need, like an Oscar segment probably.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Does at least at least a minute with Oscar.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Yeah, well, Oscar, you know, we see each other, we
stay in touch on a regular basis. But all I
can say is thank you for not just for today,
but for your ongoing partnership through the years and friendship. Personally,
You've just been a wonderful person. Uh, And you've been
(31:03):
a stalwart at the university and just the services that
you provide. I mean, it's really in kaucuable. I don't
know if you've ever thought about this, Oscar, all the
young lies that you've touched in a positive way over
the years. It's really hard to even count those up.
So for all you've done and you continue to do, Oscar,
we appreciate you and thank you so much for being
on the show.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Thanks, thanks for the invitation.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Keeping
Ashland Healthy podcast. The podcast is a production of the
Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio. You
can reach the Board by calling four one nine two
eight one three one three nine. Please remember that the
Board funds a local twenty four to seven crisis line
through Applese Community Mental Health Center.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
It can be reached by.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Calling four one nine two eight nine six to one
one one. That's four one nine two eight nine six
to one one one. Until next time, Please join us
in keeping Ashland Healthy.
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