February 11, 2025 • 28 mins
On today’s episode of Keeping Ashland Healthy, Dr. Ashley and the Boss review the newest book by Joanna Moncrieff: Chemically Imbalanced – The Making and Unmaking of the Serotonin Myth. Additionally, they draw attention to the recent decline in suicides, an Ohio effort to discover the root causes of mental and emotional stress, and close it out by encouraging listeners NOT to medicalize normal human distress. Questions? Visit the Board’s website at www.ashlandmhrb.org or call us at 419.281.3139
(Record Date: February 6, 2025)
(Record Date: February 6, 2025)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a podcast
production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio.
Thanks for joining us, and thank you once again for
joining us. This is doctor Ashley and the Boss and
welcome Doctor.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Ashley, Thank you, good morning. How are you Boss.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's an icy, icy, in kind of chilly day living
here in Ashland County, but we're here.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're here and we.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Are excited to talk to our audience and we appreciate
you tuning in for another episode of the Keeping Ashland Healthy.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Again, it is a production of the Mental Health and
Recovery Board here in Ashland County. Doctor Ashley and myself
both are always very excited to talk about the issues
that are going on not only in Ashley County, but
in the region, in the world sometimes and we like
to bring a variety of things both local and like
I said, regional, nationally, and we'll do that on today's
(00:58):
episode as we talk about certain books, articles, subject matter
that we hope that our audience is interested in. And
you know what they can do, Doctor Ashley, if they
would like to send us something they'd like us to talk.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
About yeah, some kind of topic.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, the US.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We got a phone number four one nine two eight
one three one three nine, or they could just email us,
and that's got to our website, Ashley m HRB Mental
Health Recovery Board dot org, and there's a place where
you can email us. It's at the bottom of the
screen and let us know if there's a particular topic
or subject.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
As we've said to the.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Audience before, this is a big year for the Mental
Health Recovery Board with our Levey going to be on
the ballot in November, so we anticipate several episodes of
programs and services and several guests this year talking through
some of the things at the board funds that we
think are particularly impact all and important in things that
(01:55):
we want the public to know.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Absolutely. But let us know if you've got some id us.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
About I got my coffee in the studio.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I left mine in the office.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I just hope I don't know, spill it on any
of this incredibly expensive equipment that would impact the podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
All right.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
First off, a near and dear to us topic how
we interpret distress. So doctor Ashley and I have talked
about this on previous episodes, but there was an article
out recently in mad in America, which is a website
that they're friends of the show. Bob Whitaker started the
(02:34):
site many years ago based after his first real I
think best selling book entitled matt in America, which I
do recommend, Doctor Ashley.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
We haven't talked about it.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
It's an older book, but for individuals that are interested
in the history of psychiatry, psychology, counseling, and social work
in the United States, it is a must read. This
is just a rabbit trail, but as you know, doctor Ashley,
I love to go on these rabbit trails. I recall
the win and the wear when I read this book,
(03:05):
so it's one of those things as a professional. I
was in Florida on vacation on a beach reading this
book and it just stuck with me. It literally changed
the way I thought about our profession, our field, because
you know, Bob is such a great storyteller. But the history,
the history of the field I worked in. I got
(03:27):
a little bit of it in an undergrad and graduate school,
but he really pulled out more of the culture, the
bigger picture of what was going on with psychiatry. At
the end of the eighteen hundreds into the early nineteen hundreds,
and I don't want to spoil it for people that
want to buy the book. Yeah, it's not pleasant. A
(03:50):
lot of the things that were going on in the
field weren't good things, and some of those things have
hung on in ways that maybe don't not as obvious. So,
for example, folks certainly remember the practice of lobotomies, the
cutting of the corpus colosum or messing up that bridge
(04:12):
between the two hemispheres of the brain. You know that
that was a barbaric practice, but it was seen as
cutting edge science forty fifty years ago. So some of
the history in that book is just it's a must
read for even if you don't work in the field,
but particularly if you work in the field. It just
helps us be humble, helps us be curious, hopefully helps
(04:33):
us to question studies results so we don't find ourselves
embracing something as dangerous and destructive and ill conceived as lobotomies.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I think that's great. We should maybe focus on that
on another podcast too.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
We might have to.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
But this first article, default depression, How we now interpret
distress as mental illness. And the reason, and this one
jumped out to me is because again it makes the
point that we need to recognize all of us as
human beings experienced distress throughout our lifetime. Sometimes that distress
(05:13):
is more pronounced, more challenging than at other times, but
that is a normal It's a normal occurrence in the
life cycle of a human Is that thing, circumstances, events, relationships,
you name it. Well, loss will cause various degrees of
emotional distress. And if we see that as a dysfunction,
(05:37):
as an illness, as a disease, as something being fundamentally
flawed or wrong or broken within the individual, we're off
track in the vast majority of situations. If we see
that as part of the normal human experience, and we
see these things as temporary and a situational they'll pass.
(06:00):
This too, shall pass, doctor Ashley. We were probably be
in a healthy, inner, better spot.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, And that's really one of our fundamental beliefs here
at the board. And you see that kind of in
all of the work that we do. We don't talk
about mental illness in the way that a lot of
people do as like a disorder dysfunction, And I think
you see that play out in all the work in
programs that we do.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I hope so, and I hope that's one of the
things that if you're a resident of Ashlal County and
you have received services from any of our providers, you've
come to any of our events or conferences. As you say,
doctor Ashley, this is an important point. You know, I
often say, you know, I want our community behavioral health,
our tax payer tax payer funded behavioral health system to
(06:45):
be as small and as efficient as it needs to
be to meet the legitimate needs behavioral health mental health
substitute needs of our community, and no larger. The idea
is we want to keep people out of this system
that don't really need it, but certainly to make it
as accessible and as efficient as effective for those that do.
(07:10):
And there's always a tendency for systems to be bigger
than they need to be. So that's one of our
jobs at the board is to make sure that we're
keeping an eye on who's getting the services and are
we sweeping up too many people that are just experienced
normal human distress rather than some kind of more serious
(07:31):
underlying issue which may exist sometimes does exist, and sometimes
we have to tease out whether that underlying issue is
a primary physical issue.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Oh, that's true, Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
There might there aren't be an actual physical issue going
on that produces symptoms that can be often misinterpreted as
mental health issue.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, and things that we go through that cause distress,
I think there's a harm or there could be a harm,
and viewing those things as illness and something that like
we can't do anything about, it takes away a little
bit of like the control or the hope that they
can get better, right, And we don't want people in
the system forever their whole lives with quote unquote and illness.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, that's really important, and it's really it's part of
our trauma informed care initiative in this county. Again, you
touched on it, doctor Ashley, that folks recognize that it's
not about what's wrong with you. It's about what's happened, absolutely,
and the focus shouldn't be on because it's not about
what's wrong with the individual. It really is about you know,
maybe situations or a series of situations that have all
(08:35):
converged such that they're just having a difficult time.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Right In that article, they say mostly like with depression
and anxiety. That's kind of the default. If someone's struggling,
that must be depression or anxiety. But I think it's
good to kind of look inward and see, you know what,
what else might be affecting me from the outside. How
am I reacting to the situations I'm going through, right, and.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Seeing that as a normal part of living versus some
kind of fundamentally wrong right. Yeah, Well, I encourage folks,
And well, like I said, we tend to link all
these articles in the episode description so folks can read
them at their at their leisure. In h I think
it default depression. How we now interpret distress as mental
illness is worth your time and again fits in with
(09:19):
what the board is trying to accomplish. Next up is
another friend of the show, doctor Joanna mon Creef.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
She's great, boy, yea is she great?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I'll tell you she she's another one like Bob Whittaker's
Mad in America book Doctor Mindcrief. Years ago, she had
in my opinion, one of the best ways of just
talking about psychiatric drugs as drugs and and she says,
you know, let's not pretend that psychiatric drugs are magically
(09:49):
different than any other psychoactor drug or be it alcohol,
or caffeine or cannabis, you name it, any any other
substance that you know a drug that changes the way
we function, how we feel.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
So too do.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Psychiatric drugs. And the title of our newest book is
called Chemically Imbalanced, the Making and Unmaking of the serotonin myth.
And that concept, that myth that she's referencing is a
A lot of folks will say, oh, no, nobody believes
that anymore. But the reality is it has been talked
(10:28):
about and you know, said in such a way that
it was true for so many years. The messaging for
many many years was that doctor Asher, if you were
to come in the office I was seeing you, you
were struggle with anxiety depression, I would say something to
the effect of you, well, you probably have a chemical
imbalance and either your serotonin or your dopamine something's off.
(10:50):
You know, we're going to prescribe one or more medications
that will help rebalance your neurotransmitterners. We're going to get
that balance imbalance back in balance, and you're going to
feel better that bill, That's right. So that chemical and
bounce myth really was quickly shown to be a myth
even back in the sixties and seventies, but it was
(11:11):
such a simplistic and easy to understand concept that it
continued and continued, and many institutions educational certainly, marketing and
promotional ran with it for years. And then when you
started to corner people here in the last ten to
fifteen years about you know, the fact that there's no
sciences supports that, they say.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Oh, well, nobody really believes that. We didn't.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You know, we might have thought that years ago, but
nobody really took that seriously. So there's been a from
the scientific community. I think there's really been a backing
off of saying that there is such a thing. But
yet they act as if, they continue to act as
if why do we continue to see so many new
psychiatric medication psychiatric drugs being prescribed. What are they doing
(11:57):
if they're not trying to influence the the neurotransmitter and
the chemicals in the brain. If they're not, you know,
that is the stated reason why they're so that you
can't do that without some kind of underlying tacit admission
that you think the reason it's a good idea to
(12:17):
change those levels is because you feel like the levels
somehow are not right, and them being not right is
what's causing or at least contributing to largely why the
person might be experiencing distress.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
No, that's a good point something that you said there.
The scientific community has kind of accepted that. Researchers Joanna
mon Creef is emphasizing that. But we still see commercials
on TV, you know, all the time about you know,
this person's under the rain cloud and then they take
the pill and the sunshine comes out, right, you know
what I mean. So it's pervasive in marketing and advertising.
(12:52):
It's how people view mental health and medication right now.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, let me read a little bit more officially from Johanna,
as she says, for decades now, the public has been
told that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance and
that antidepressants work by targeting this mechanism. Millions of people
have decided to take antidepressants based on this information. Chemically
Imbalanced tells the story of a scientific myth and its consequences.
(13:18):
It traces the history of the serotonin theory of depression
from its development in the sixties. And again, Datta jach
like I said, this goes way back through its inculcation
into popular culture in the nineties to the recent revelations
that is not supported by evidence. The story illustrates the
power of human interest to shape what passes as scientific
knowledge and provides people with essentral information about depression antidepressants
(13:42):
they will not readily find elsewhere. And above all else
Chemically Imbalanced is an invitation to better understand and advocate
for our mental health. And again, that's a big point
that we make here at the board is we want
everyone to feel empowered to advocate for their own health
or of someone that they care about.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yes, empowered and informed, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
So there's a few quotes I won't take the time
to read, but we will link to the book right now.
I believe it's available only at Amazon UK, but it
should be available here in the State shortly. Joanna is
just a solid researcher and practitioner. She's been around a
long time. She even presented a couple of years ago
(14:26):
at the RSVP conference.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
We were geeking out that she was at our conference.
That was amazing. One of the things that Joanna has
done is I think illustrate what she's talking about in
a really easy to understand.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Way yea, and more about that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
One of the examples I wanted to share is how
she talks about how alcohol can change our mental state.
For example, if you're in a really terrible place, like
you're having a rough day, you might drink alcohol, right,
and that changes your mental state in the same way
that actually medicines do. So there's no chemical imbalance that
(15:03):
alcohol is curing, right, But we for some reason see
medication differently. So we take the pill. It changes our
mental states the same way that alcohol does, but we
are saying that it's curing.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Some people don't think when they drink alcohol and it
has that effect that they had an alcohol imbalance.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Right exactly, Yeah, it's curing that imbalance. Right. We don't
think of it that way, but with medicine we do.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
A recent quote that I found helpful on this Doctor
Ashley is you know it goes like this, Psychiatric drugs
altered states of mind and body in ways that may
or may not be experienced as useful by the individual
in question or those around them.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And that's just it.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
This is why I think the boards always said it's
not about no medications for anybody under any circumstances. But
recognizing that psychiatric drugs have different effects on different people,
they experience those things differently. They experience the usefulness, if
you will, of those drugs differently. So what one person
(16:11):
might find useful to say, Hey, David, you know, yeah,
it's got side effects. But given how I was feeling
and now I'm feeling differently, I'm under the influence of
one or more psychiatric drugs, I feel differently, and that
feeling differently to me, David, is better than how I
was feeling pre drug see.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
To me, that's more informed.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
As you said, we want folks, if they're going to
go down this road of taking psychiatric medic we just
want to be informed on all sides as best we can.
So that's why we encourage our agencies APPLESY, Catholic charities
and a CADA to make sure the folks that are
receiving services are as fully informed as possible to make
these good decisions. But yes, I mean if an adult
(16:50):
now feels as if one or more of the medications
causes this change, they feel better about it than where
they were, then why wouldn't they continue?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
But the flip side is they may not. You know,
and they should have a.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
You know, knowledge about you know, not continuing on something
that's not helpful.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And a lot of folks do discontinue because they don't.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Like the side ef acts or they say, David, I
don't really feel any different or better.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, And I think having that information, like a lot
of people think there's a there's a serotonin imbalance, right,
the pill is fixing that in some way, but that's
not accurate. So if you know the medication is affecting
you one way or another, it may not be positive
for you, but it is changing your mental state. I
(17:38):
think if you know that, you can do something about
it if it's not working well. Otherwise you're just gonna
take the medicine and yeah, what are you doing just
hoping it it works out right?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, And again, as I've often said, these things aren't
flintstone vitamins. All these psychiatric medications come with you know,
side effects and or as doctor mondkrief It said, you know,
they're not side effects, their drug.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Effairs, drug effects. Yeah, all drugs have drug effects. Yeah,
so it's not unexpected.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And I'm sorry, but I still get a kick out
of the advertisement.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
It's on TV.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
You know, usually the first third is about the wonderful
things that the medications can do, and the second two
thirds is always about all the potential downsides. And yeah,
those those side effects or drug effects are just awful.
It's like a rogues gallery of things that could happen
to you if you take it.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I know, it's terrible. I think about every time, like
it sounds awful.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, it's like, why would anybody do that?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Right, so well, and that's the part that that bothers me,
I suppose, because why would people do that? Well, some
folks are really hurting and they're they're desperate to find
something to relieve that that distress. So that's why I
want folks to know that our system offers alternatives. Psychiatric
drugs might be an option, but there are whether we're
(18:58):
just talking we're talking can by employment or education, we're
talking about better living situations, healthy lifestyle choices, when it
comes to food or nutrition. There's a lot of other
things that we can try. We don't have to just
jump to that. But I recognize, and I know you
do too, doctor Ashley, that folks are in distress when
(19:18):
they usually come into our system and they are looking
for answers. This is I think incumbent on our system.
Make sure that first we do no harm, right, So
when we suggest things to folks, we should start with
the things that have the best chance of being success
with the least amount of negative side effects.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that the serotonin theory, yep, that's misleading.
And if we are focused on this medicine is going
to fix the problem, we can actually miss all of
those other things that can really make a difference for someone.
We're overlooking that and just focusing on a medicine because
we think it'll be a quick fix, right.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I think that's well said. So the book is Chemically Imbalanced,
The Making and Unmaking of the Serotonin Myth by Doctor
Joanna Moncreef m O N c R I E f F. Again,
it'll be linked in the episode description, but to my
knowledge right now, it's available through Amazon UK, but I
(20:14):
was able to get it through Blackwells Online, which is
a wonderful bookstore over in England. If if you've not
ordered from black Wells, that's a great place to get books.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
We also have a YouTube channel and we have a recording.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeh.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I just want to plug this a little bit. We
have recording of doctor Joanna Vncreef at our conference about
two years ago, and she talks about something and she
does Yeah, so if you want to like kind of
see her talk about it, and she's talking at our
local conference, it's really cool. Check that out on our
boards YouTube channel.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
No. I appreciate you mentioning that because a lot of
what she talked about ended up in this book. You
know how writers they're always they're always prepping and working
out their materials years in advance.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
So yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Well, next up the SORE Study.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Now a lot of people might say, oh, David, why
are you bringing this up? Well, because the State of Ohio.
It's called the State of Ohio Adversity and Resilience Study
s o a R. The reason this has gotten my attention,
doctor Ashley, is because the focus of the study is
what they call finding the root causes unquote you know,
(21:20):
quote unquote root causes of mental health conditions by examining
a range of medical, social, and psychological factors. So I
thought this was something innovative that the governor and leadership
started a year or so ago, because, as you know,
we're all about root causes you know, just focused on
knocking down symptoms is really never seen as the best approach.
(21:44):
I know sometimes it's popular to do that, but I
think it's healthy for all of us individually as a
system if we can focus on root causes rather than
just symptoms and symptoms alone. So what's going on that's
really causing these things?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
So?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Uh, the study is supposed to help get at that,
and it's still in its early days, but they've been
starting to interview thousands of folks throughout Ohio and their
interim report came out a couple months ago, and I
just wanted the audience to know that some of the
things that they're already finding. Again, they're no way done
yet with this, but they have already noticed the importance
(22:24):
of social connectedness, the importance of improved sleep and nutrition,
and meaningful activity as ways to help people mitigate life
circumstances that might be stressful or challenging.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
They also have already discovered that resilience is the norm.
And I say that a lot doctors, Yeah, because I
want I don't want folks to feel as if you know,
everything that happens a loss, a breakup, a job, loss,
a you know, a move that they are so fragile
that they should rush into the community behavior health system
(22:58):
or rush to see a counselor you're could be able
to get through these difficult times. That is the norm,
certainly are so I want people to recognize that resilience
is the norm. I say that because even in the
folks that they're surveying, the vast majority of folks that
encounter challenges, they don't go rushing into the system and
they say they're doing fine. So, but that finding meaning
(23:19):
and purpose in one's life. They've also discovered that, you know,
surprise surprise that increases hope and connecting with others. Both
of those are incredibly powerful protective factors that help people.
So going through a challenging situation all by your loansome,
with nobody to talk to, nobody to kind of just
vent to yeah, that puts you at higher risk than
(23:42):
if you've got a support network that you can talk
this through, people can support you through, give you ideas,
maybe even say you know what I went through something similar,
not the same, but maybe something similar. And knowing that
you're not alone, like, oh, I'm not the only person
that experienced these kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, and that ties in actually with the other things
we're talking about today. So you might be experiencing something difficult,
you go to a counselor you get some support and
that helps, right, Or you could be diagnosed in Vida's
mentally ill and diagnosed with depression and prescribed a pill
that may or may not help, right. So I just
(24:17):
think it's a more effective way of looking at distress
and trouble times.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So this again, this is the Sore Study, the State
of Ohio Adversity and Resilient Study.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Keep an eye on this.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
We will, but the whole idea, and I applaud the
governor in the state for not focus any on symptoms
but actually trying to get it the root causes of
some of these mental health conditions. Last, but not least, today,
doctor Ashley is I think some good news on a
serious topic. So friends of the show know that the
(24:51):
Board has really been focused over the last fifteen years
on suicide and trying to impact the number of folks
that lose their life to suicide. So we've done a
lot of question persuade refer QPR trainings, which is a
evidence based suicide prevention approach that we've really embraced in
Ashland County, and the numbers have been you know, they
(25:15):
haven't been good, to be honest, over the last ten years.
COVID didn't help. But finally, you know, they the twenty
twenty three Ohio suicide report came out and did show
a one percent decrease twenty three versus twenty two. The
raw numbers may not seem, you know, huge, but those
are lives. Those are families not impacted, you know, by
(25:38):
the loss of somebody.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
So all these lives matter.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
So we just want to draw attention to the report,
which we'll put in the episode description, but just to
let folks know there. Don't give hope on our suitside
prevention efforts. I know sometimes, you know, when the numbers
keep going up, it's easy to kind of lose maybe
hope ourselves as the helpers that you know, we're having
any impact. I think sometimes these changes take time before
(26:03):
they play out and the numbers actually decrease.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
But I was encouraged.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I don't know how you felt, but I was just
encouraged that we finally, finally, after several years of increases,
saw a slight decrease.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yeah, David, I agree, I think that that is very encouraging.
I know that for us here at the board, it's
one of our biggest priorities and will continue to be
continue to be right for every one person that dies
by suicide, that loss impacts individuals, like tons of individuals,
it impacts the community. So that is a significant change
(26:34):
and very.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Hopeful, and doctor Ashley's right. The Board will continue to
prioritize suicide prevention in the county.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
We have for all these years.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
And will continue to do that because, as you say,
it's devastating to the families and friends.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
That are left behind. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Absolutely, Well, well there you have it, several articles and
a book recommendation. The Mental Health and Recovery Board continues
to be excited about the partnership with the community.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
We love our Ashton kind of community.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yes, we've got several events coming up that we're going
to be plugging as well as some of the programs
and services throughout the year.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
But as always, doctor Ashley, I love talking through some
of these things.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I know some of the things we talk about maybe
are different than when folks are hearing or reading out there,
and that's okay, right. We've always tried to be a
little bit cutting edge when it comes to some of
these these views. And again, all of this the board's
three Lake philosophy. All this can be found at the
Male Health and Recover Board website www dot Ashland.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
M h RB dot org.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Any any words of wisdess for the audience before we
end today's episode, Doctor Ashley, I guess.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
I just want to say thank you for listening. Yes,
you know, not everyone cares about mental health, but I'm
glad that you do, and I'm glad that you're with
us and taking the time to learn.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
So thank you. I agree wholeheartedly.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Until next time, doctor Ashley, thank you for listening to
another episode of the Keeping Ashlin Healthy podcast. The podcast
is a production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board
of Ashland County, Ohio. You can reach the board by
calling four one nine two eight one three one three nine.
Please remember that the board funds a local twenty four
seven crisis line through APPLESEA Community Mental Health Center.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
It can be reached by.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Calling four one nine two eight nine sixty one one one.
That's four one nine two eight nine sixty one one one.
Until next time, Please join us in Keeping Ashland Healthy.
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a podcast
production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio.
Thanks for joining us, and thank you once again for
joining us. This is doctor Ashley and the Boss and
welcome Doctor.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Ashley, Thank you, good morning. How are you Boss.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It's an icy, icy, in kind of chilly day living
here in Ashland County, but we're here.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're here and we.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Are excited to talk to our audience and we appreciate
you tuning in for another episode of the Keeping Ashland Healthy.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Again, it is a production of the Mental Health and
Recovery Board here in Ashland County. Doctor Ashley and myself
both are always very excited to talk about the issues
that are going on not only in Ashley County, but
in the region, in the world sometimes and we like
to bring a variety of things both local and like
I said, regional, nationally, and we'll do that on today's
(00:58):
episode as we talk about certain books, articles, subject matter
that we hope that our audience is interested in. And
you know what they can do, Doctor Ashley, if they
would like to send us something they'd like us to talk.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
About yeah, some kind of topic.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, the US.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We got a phone number four one nine two eight
one three one three nine, or they could just email us,
and that's got to our website, Ashley m HRB Mental
Health Recovery Board dot org, and there's a place where
you can email us. It's at the bottom of the
screen and let us know if there's a particular topic
or subject.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
As we've said to the.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Audience before, this is a big year for the Mental
Health Recovery Board with our Levey going to be on
the ballot in November, so we anticipate several episodes of
programs and services and several guests this year talking through
some of the things at the board funds that we
think are particularly impact all and important in things that
(01:55):
we want the public to know.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Absolutely. But let us know if you've got some id us.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
About I got my coffee in the studio.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I left mine in the office.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I just hope I don't know, spill it on any
of this incredibly expensive equipment that would impact the podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
All right.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
First off, a near and dear to us topic how
we interpret distress. So doctor Ashley and I have talked
about this on previous episodes, but there was an article
out recently in mad in America, which is a website
that they're friends of the show. Bob Whitaker started the
(02:34):
site many years ago based after his first real I
think best selling book entitled matt in America, which I
do recommend, Doctor Ashley.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
We haven't talked about it.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
It's an older book, but for individuals that are interested
in the history of psychiatry, psychology, counseling, and social work
in the United States, it is a must read. This
is just a rabbit trail, but as you know, doctor Ashley,
I love to go on these rabbit trails. I recall
the win and the wear when I read this book,
(03:05):
so it's one of those things as a professional. I
was in Florida on vacation on a beach reading this
book and it just stuck with me. It literally changed
the way I thought about our profession, our field, because
you know, Bob is such a great storyteller. But the history,
the history of the field I worked in. I got
(03:27):
a little bit of it in an undergrad and graduate school,
but he really pulled out more of the culture, the
bigger picture of what was going on with psychiatry. At
the end of the eighteen hundreds into the early nineteen hundreds,
and I don't want to spoil it for people that
want to buy the book. Yeah, it's not pleasant. A
(03:50):
lot of the things that were going on in the
field weren't good things, and some of those things have
hung on in ways that maybe don't not as obvious. So,
for example, folks certainly remember the practice of lobotomies, the
cutting of the corpus colosum or messing up that bridge
(04:12):
between the two hemispheres of the brain. You know that
that was a barbaric practice, but it was seen as
cutting edge science forty fifty years ago. So some of
the history in that book is just it's a must
read for even if you don't work in the field,
but particularly if you work in the field. It just
helps us be humble, helps us be curious, hopefully helps
(04:33):
us to question studies results so we don't find ourselves
embracing something as dangerous and destructive and ill conceived as lobotomies.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I think that's great. We should maybe focus on that
on another podcast too.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
We might have to.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
But this first article, default depression, How we now interpret
distress as mental illness. And the reason, and this one
jumped out to me is because again it makes the
point that we need to recognize all of us as
human beings experienced distress throughout our lifetime. Sometimes that distress
(05:13):
is more pronounced, more challenging than at other times, but
that is a normal It's a normal occurrence in the
life cycle of a human Is that thing, circumstances, events, relationships,
you name it. Well, loss will cause various degrees of
emotional distress. And if we see that as a dysfunction,
(05:37):
as an illness, as a disease, as something being fundamentally
flawed or wrong or broken within the individual, we're off
track in the vast majority of situations. If we see
that as part of the normal human experience, and we
see these things as temporary and a situational they'll pass.
(06:00):
This too, shall pass, doctor Ashley. We were probably be
in a healthy, inner, better spot.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, And that's really one of our fundamental beliefs here
at the board. And you see that kind of in
all of the work that we do. We don't talk
about mental illness in the way that a lot of
people do as like a disorder dysfunction, And I think
you see that play out in all the work in
programs that we do.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I hope so, and I hope that's one of the
things that if you're a resident of Ashlal County and
you have received services from any of our providers, you've
come to any of our events or conferences. As you say,
doctor Ashley, this is an important point. You know, I
often say, you know, I want our community behavioral health,
our tax payer tax payer funded behavioral health system to
(06:45):
be as small and as efficient as it needs to
be to meet the legitimate needs behavioral health mental health
substitute needs of our community, and no larger. The idea
is we want to keep people out of this system
that don't really need it, but certainly to make it
as accessible and as efficient as effective for those that do.
(07:10):
And there's always a tendency for systems to be bigger
than they need to be. So that's one of our
jobs at the board is to make sure that we're
keeping an eye on who's getting the services and are
we sweeping up too many people that are just experienced
normal human distress rather than some kind of more serious
(07:31):
underlying issue which may exist sometimes does exist, and sometimes
we have to tease out whether that underlying issue is
a primary physical issue.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Oh, that's true, Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
There might there aren't be an actual physical issue going
on that produces symptoms that can be often misinterpreted as
mental health issue.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, and things that we go through that cause distress,
I think there's a harm or there could be a harm,
and viewing those things as illness and something that like
we can't do anything about, it takes away a little
bit of like the control or the hope that they
can get better, right, And we don't want people in
the system forever their whole lives with quote unquote and illness.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, that's really important, and it's really it's part of
our trauma informed care initiative in this county. Again, you
touched on it, doctor Ashley, that folks recognize that it's
not about what's wrong with you. It's about what's happened, absolutely,
and the focus shouldn't be on because it's not about
what's wrong with the individual. It really is about you know,
maybe situations or a series of situations that have all
(08:35):
converged such that they're just having a difficult time.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Right In that article, they say mostly like with depression
and anxiety. That's kind of the default. If someone's struggling,
that must be depression or anxiety. But I think it's
good to kind of look inward and see, you know what,
what else might be affecting me from the outside. How
am I reacting to the situations I'm going through, right, and.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Seeing that as a normal part of living versus some
kind of fundamentally wrong right. Yeah, Well, I encourage folks,
And well, like I said, we tend to link all
these articles in the episode description so folks can read
them at their at their leisure. In h I think
it default depression. How we now interpret distress as mental
illness is worth your time and again fits in with
(09:19):
what the board is trying to accomplish. Next up is
another friend of the show, doctor Joanna mon Creef.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
She's great, boy, yea is she great?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I'll tell you she she's another one like Bob Whittaker's
Mad in America book Doctor Mindcrief. Years ago, she had
in my opinion, one of the best ways of just
talking about psychiatric drugs as drugs and and she says,
you know, let's not pretend that psychiatric drugs are magically
(09:49):
different than any other psychoactor drug or be it alcohol,
or caffeine or cannabis, you name it, any any other
substance that you know a drug that changes the way
we function, how we feel.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
So too do.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Psychiatric drugs. And the title of our newest book is
called Chemically Imbalanced, the Making and Unmaking of the serotonin myth.
And that concept, that myth that she's referencing is a
A lot of folks will say, oh, no, nobody believes
that anymore. But the reality is it has been talked
(10:28):
about and you know, said in such a way that
it was true for so many years. The messaging for
many many years was that doctor Asher, if you were
to come in the office I was seeing you, you
were struggle with anxiety depression, I would say something to
the effect of you, well, you probably have a chemical
imbalance and either your serotonin or your dopamine something's off.
(10:50):
You know, we're going to prescribe one or more medications
that will help rebalance your neurotransmitterners. We're going to get
that balance imbalance back in balance, and you're going to
feel better that bill, That's right. So that chemical and
bounce myth really was quickly shown to be a myth
even back in the sixties and seventies, but it was
(11:11):
such a simplistic and easy to understand concept that it
continued and continued, and many institutions educational certainly, marketing and
promotional ran with it for years. And then when you
started to corner people here in the last ten to
fifteen years about you know, the fact that there's no
sciences supports that, they say.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Oh, well, nobody really believes that. We didn't.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You know, we might have thought that years ago, but
nobody really took that seriously. So there's been a from
the scientific community. I think there's really been a backing
off of saying that there is such a thing. But
yet they act as if, they continue to act as
if why do we continue to see so many new
psychiatric medication psychiatric drugs being prescribed. What are they doing
(11:57):
if they're not trying to influence the the neurotransmitter and
the chemicals in the brain. If they're not, you know,
that is the stated reason why they're so that you
can't do that without some kind of underlying tacit admission
that you think the reason it's a good idea to
(12:17):
change those levels is because you feel like the levels
somehow are not right, and them being not right is
what's causing or at least contributing to largely why the
person might be experiencing distress.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
No, that's a good point something that you said there.
The scientific community has kind of accepted that. Researchers Joanna
mon Creef is emphasizing that. But we still see commercials
on TV, you know, all the time about you know,
this person's under the rain cloud and then they take
the pill and the sunshine comes out, right, you know
what I mean. So it's pervasive in marketing and advertising.
(12:52):
It's how people view mental health and medication right now.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, let me read a little bit more officially from Johanna,
as she says, for decades now, the public has been
told that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance and
that antidepressants work by targeting this mechanism. Millions of people
have decided to take antidepressants based on this information. Chemically
Imbalanced tells the story of a scientific myth and its consequences.
(13:18):
It traces the history of the serotonin theory of depression
from its development in the sixties. And again, Datta jach
like I said, this goes way back through its inculcation
into popular culture in the nineties to the recent revelations
that is not supported by evidence. The story illustrates the
power of human interest to shape what passes as scientific
knowledge and provides people with essentral information about depression antidepressants
(13:42):
they will not readily find elsewhere. And above all else
Chemically Imbalanced is an invitation to better understand and advocate
for our mental health. And again, that's a big point
that we make here at the board is we want
everyone to feel empowered to advocate for their own health
or of someone that they care about.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Yes, empowered and informed, that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
So there's a few quotes I won't take the time
to read, but we will link to the book right now.
I believe it's available only at Amazon UK, but it
should be available here in the State shortly. Joanna is
just a solid researcher and practitioner. She's been around a
long time. She even presented a couple of years ago
(14:26):
at the RSVP conference.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
We were geeking out that she was at our conference.
That was amazing. One of the things that Joanna has
done is I think illustrate what she's talking about in
a really easy to understand.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Way yea, and more about that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
One of the examples I wanted to share is how
she talks about how alcohol can change our mental state.
For example, if you're in a really terrible place, like
you're having a rough day, you might drink alcohol, right,
and that changes your mental state in the same way
that actually medicines do. So there's no chemical imbalance that
(15:03):
alcohol is curing, right, But we for some reason see
medication differently. So we take the pill. It changes our
mental states the same way that alcohol does, but we
are saying that it's curing.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Some people don't think when they drink alcohol and it
has that effect that they had an alcohol imbalance.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Right exactly, Yeah, it's curing that imbalance. Right. We don't
think of it that way, but with medicine we do.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
A recent quote that I found helpful on this Doctor
Ashley is you know it goes like this, Psychiatric drugs
altered states of mind and body in ways that may
or may not be experienced as useful by the individual
in question or those around them.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And that's just it.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
This is why I think the boards always said it's
not about no medications for anybody under any circumstances. But
recognizing that psychiatric drugs have different effects on different people,
they experience those things differently. They experience the usefulness, if
you will, of those drugs differently. So what one person
(16:11):
might find useful to say, Hey, David, you know, yeah,
it's got side effects. But given how I was feeling
and now I'm feeling differently, I'm under the influence of
one or more psychiatric drugs, I feel differently, and that
feeling differently to me, David, is better than how I
was feeling pre drug see.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
To me, that's more informed.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
As you said, we want folks, if they're going to
go down this road of taking psychiatric medic we just
want to be informed on all sides as best we can.
So that's why we encourage our agencies APPLESY, Catholic charities
and a CADA to make sure the folks that are
receiving services are as fully informed as possible to make
these good decisions. But yes, I mean if an adult
(16:50):
now feels as if one or more of the medications
causes this change, they feel better about it than where
they were, then why wouldn't they continue?
Speaker 1 (17:00):
But the flip side is they may not. You know,
and they should have a.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
You know, knowledge about you know, not continuing on something
that's not helpful.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And a lot of folks do discontinue because they don't.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Like the side ef acts or they say, David, I
don't really feel any different or better.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Yeah, And I think having that information, like a lot
of people think there's a there's a serotonin imbalance, right,
the pill is fixing that in some way, but that's
not accurate. So if you know the medication is affecting
you one way or another, it may not be positive
for you, but it is changing your mental state. I
(17:38):
think if you know that, you can do something about
it if it's not working well. Otherwise you're just gonna
take the medicine and yeah, what are you doing just
hoping it it works out right?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, And again, as I've often said, these things aren't
flintstone vitamins. All these psychiatric medications come with you know,
side effects and or as doctor mondkrief It said, you know,
they're not side effects, their drug.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Effairs, drug effects. Yeah, all drugs have drug effects. Yeah,
so it's not unexpected.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And I'm sorry, but I still get a kick out
of the advertisement.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
It's on TV.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
You know, usually the first third is about the wonderful
things that the medications can do, and the second two
thirds is always about all the potential downsides. And yeah,
those those side effects or drug effects are just awful.
It's like a rogues gallery of things that could happen
to you if you take it.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I know, it's terrible. I think about every time, like
it sounds awful.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, it's like, why would anybody do that?
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Right, so well, and that's the part that that bothers me,
I suppose, because why would people do that? Well, some
folks are really hurting and they're they're desperate to find
something to relieve that that distress. So that's why I
want folks to know that our system offers alternatives. Psychiatric
drugs might be an option, but there are whether we're
(18:58):
just talking we're talking can by employment or education, we're
talking about better living situations, healthy lifestyle choices, when it
comes to food or nutrition. There's a lot of other
things that we can try. We don't have to just
jump to that. But I recognize, and I know you
do too, doctor Ashley, that folks are in distress when
(19:18):
they usually come into our system and they are looking
for answers. This is I think incumbent on our system.
Make sure that first we do no harm, right, So
when we suggest things to folks, we should start with
the things that have the best chance of being success
with the least amount of negative side effects.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that the serotonin theory, yep, that's misleading.
And if we are focused on this medicine is going
to fix the problem, we can actually miss all of
those other things that can really make a difference for someone.
We're overlooking that and just focusing on a medicine because
we think it'll be a quick fix, right.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I think that's well said. So the book is Chemically Imbalanced,
The Making and Unmaking of the Serotonin Myth by Doctor
Joanna Moncreef m O N c R I E f F. Again,
it'll be linked in the episode description, but to my
knowledge right now, it's available through Amazon UK, but I
(20:14):
was able to get it through Blackwells Online, which is
a wonderful bookstore over in England. If if you've not
ordered from black Wells, that's a great place to get books.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
We also have a YouTube channel and we have a recording.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeh.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I just want to plug this a little bit. We
have recording of doctor Joanna Vncreef at our conference about
two years ago, and she talks about something and she
does Yeah, so if you want to like kind of
see her talk about it, and she's talking at our
local conference, it's really cool. Check that out on our
boards YouTube channel.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
No. I appreciate you mentioning that because a lot of
what she talked about ended up in this book. You
know how writers they're always they're always prepping and working
out their materials years in advance.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
So yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Well, next up the SORE Study.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Now a lot of people might say, oh, David, why
are you bringing this up? Well, because the State of Ohio.
It's called the State of Ohio Adversity and Resilience Study
s o a R. The reason this has gotten my attention,
doctor Ashley, is because the focus of the study is
what they call finding the root causes unquote you know,
(21:20):
quote unquote root causes of mental health conditions by examining
a range of medical, social, and psychological factors. So I
thought this was something innovative that the governor and leadership
started a year or so ago, because, as you know,
we're all about root causes you know, just focused on
knocking down symptoms is really never seen as the best approach.
(21:44):
I know sometimes it's popular to do that, but I
think it's healthy for all of us individually as a
system if we can focus on root causes rather than
just symptoms and symptoms alone. So what's going on that's
really causing these things?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
So?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Uh, the study is supposed to help get at that,
and it's still in its early days, but they've been
starting to interview thousands of folks throughout Ohio and their
interim report came out a couple months ago, and I
just wanted the audience to know that some of the
things that they're already finding. Again, they're no way done
yet with this, but they have already noticed the importance
(22:24):
of social connectedness, the importance of improved sleep and nutrition,
and meaningful activity as ways to help people mitigate life
circumstances that might be stressful or challenging.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
They also have already discovered that resilience is the norm.
And I say that a lot doctors, Yeah, because I
want I don't want folks to feel as if you know,
everything that happens a loss, a breakup, a job, loss,
a you know, a move that they are so fragile
that they should rush into the community behavior health system
(22:58):
or rush to see a counselor you're could be able
to get through these difficult times. That is the norm,
certainly are so I want people to recognize that resilience
is the norm. I say that because even in the
folks that they're surveying, the vast majority of folks that
encounter challenges, they don't go rushing into the system and
they say they're doing fine. So, but that finding meaning
(23:19):
and purpose in one's life. They've also discovered that, you know,
surprise surprise that increases hope and connecting with others. Both
of those are incredibly powerful protective factors that help people.
So going through a challenging situation all by your loansome,
with nobody to talk to, nobody to kind of just
vent to yeah, that puts you at higher risk than
(23:42):
if you've got a support network that you can talk
this through, people can support you through, give you ideas,
maybe even say you know what I went through something similar,
not the same, but maybe something similar. And knowing that
you're not alone, like, oh, I'm not the only person
that experienced these kinds of things.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, and that ties in actually with the other things
we're talking about today. So you might be experiencing something difficult,
you go to a counselor you get some support and
that helps, right, Or you could be diagnosed in Vida's
mentally ill and diagnosed with depression and prescribed a pill
that may or may not help, right. So I just
(24:17):
think it's a more effective way of looking at distress
and trouble times.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
So this again, this is the Sore Study, the State
of Ohio Adversity and Resilient Study.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Keep an eye on this.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
We will, but the whole idea, and I applaud the
governor in the state for not focus any on symptoms
but actually trying to get it the root causes of
some of these mental health conditions. Last, but not least, today,
doctor Ashley is I think some good news on a
serious topic. So friends of the show know that the
(24:51):
Board has really been focused over the last fifteen years
on suicide and trying to impact the number of folks
that lose their life to suicide. So we've done a
lot of question persuade refer QPR trainings, which is a
evidence based suicide prevention approach that we've really embraced in
Ashland County, and the numbers have been you know, they
(25:15):
haven't been good, to be honest, over the last ten years.
COVID didn't help. But finally, you know, they the twenty
twenty three Ohio suicide report came out and did show
a one percent decrease twenty three versus twenty two. The
raw numbers may not seem, you know, huge, but those
are lives. Those are families not impacted, you know, by
(25:38):
the loss of somebody.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
So all these lives matter.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
So we just want to draw attention to the report,
which we'll put in the episode description, but just to
let folks know there. Don't give hope on our suitside
prevention efforts. I know sometimes, you know, when the numbers
keep going up, it's easy to kind of lose maybe
hope ourselves as the helpers that you know, we're having
any impact. I think sometimes these changes take time before
(26:03):
they play out and the numbers actually decrease.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
But I was encouraged.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I don't know how you felt, but I was just
encouraged that we finally, finally, after several years of increases,
saw a slight decrease.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Yeah, David, I agree, I think that that is very encouraging.
I know that for us here at the board, it's
one of our biggest priorities and will continue to be
continue to be right for every one person that dies
by suicide, that loss impacts individuals, like tons of individuals,
it impacts the community. So that is a significant change
(26:34):
and very.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Hopeful, and doctor Ashley's right. The Board will continue to
prioritize suicide prevention in the county.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
We have for all these years.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
And will continue to do that because, as you say,
it's devastating to the families and friends.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
That are left behind. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Absolutely, Well, well there you have it, several articles and
a book recommendation. The Mental Health and Recovery Board continues
to be excited about the partnership with the community.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
We love our Ashton kind of community.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yes, we've got several events coming up that we're going
to be plugging as well as some of the programs
and services throughout the year.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
But as always, doctor Ashley, I love talking through some
of these things.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I know some of the things we talk about maybe
are different than when folks are hearing or reading out there,
and that's okay, right. We've always tried to be a
little bit cutting edge when it comes to some of
these these views. And again, all of this the board's
three Lake philosophy. All this can be found at the
Male Health and Recover Board website www dot Ashland.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
M h RB dot org.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Any any words of wisdess for the audience before we
end today's episode, Doctor Ashley, I guess.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
I just want to say thank you for listening. Yes,
you know, not everyone cares about mental health, but I'm
glad that you do, and I'm glad that you're with
us and taking the time to learn.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
So thank you. I agree wholeheartedly.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Until next time, doctor Ashley, thank you for listening to
another episode of the Keeping Ashlin Healthy podcast. The podcast
is a production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board
of Ashland County, Ohio. You can reach the board by
calling four one nine two eight one three one three nine.
Please remember that the board funds a local twenty four
seven crisis line through APPLESEA Community Mental Health Center.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
It can be reached by.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Calling four one nine two eight nine sixty one one one.
That's four one nine two eight nine sixty one one one.
Until next time, Please join us in Keeping Ashland Healthy.
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