April 2, 2025 • 29 mins
On today’s episode, Dr. Ashley and the Boss recap this year’s Pat Risser RSVP Conference. For those who couldn’t attend in person or via Zoom, visit our YouTube Channel soon for the recording. Additional information about Brooke Siem, Dee Barbash, Ron Bassman, and Stanley Frankart can be found by following the hyperlinks, visiting our website (www.ashlandmhrb.org/ ), or calling the Board at 419.281.3139.
(Record Date: March 27, 2025)
(Record Date: March 27, 2025)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome. You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a
podcast production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of
Ashland County, Ohio. Thanks for joining us, and welcome back
to another episode. In this particular episode, Doctor Ashley and
I do a recap of this year's sixteenth annual pat
Risser r SVP Conference. And let me say just from
(00:25):
the bat, we just appreciate everybody that participated, our speakers,
all of our conference attendees, those that tabled at the event,
board members. It was just another wonderful, successful event, the
RSVP conference, and I think those that couldn't make the event,
either in person or zoom, will find value in the recap.
(00:49):
And again, as we'll put in the episode description, folks
will be able to watch the conference in its entirety
later on this month. Thank you. Well, Good morning, doctor Ashley.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Good morning, Boss, I'm doing great. How are you this morning?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I'm tired, Doctor Ashley.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I feel a little tired.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yes, honestly so, audience. We have just finished up the
rs VP, the sixteenth annual pat Risser rs VP conference. Uh,
it was wonderful, but uh, if you know you've ever
been involved with planning an event. There are a lot
of little details.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It's a lot, yeah, a lot of work, but uh.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It really paid off. We thought it'd be a good idea. Uh.
Not everybody was able to attend in person or over zoom.
And we do plan on releasing the recording, uh in
a few weeks to the general public. We want to
respect an honor of those that did pay give them
first crack at it, and they can rewatch it again.
(01:50):
But eventually here in a few weeks, like I say,
we'll post it. But it was just it was great information,
great speakers, great turnout. Uh, and we're just excited to
get of everybody. Just a kind of a recap if
you will, Yeah, and just talk through what happened, and
uh hopefully it'll encourage you enough to watch the recording
(02:11):
once we make that, uh make that live on our
website or on our YouTube channel. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I think it was a great day, So I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, you were. You were pretty busy. I saw you
running around. You were just a flash. I really didn't
have a chance to talk too much.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I know that's true.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
There are so many details. Uh again, maybe to start off,
when we first were talking about the conference a month
or so ago. I think we did touch a little
bit on the history, but I'll say just briefly, the
rs VP conference is different because it's always involved consumers,
consumers survivors specifically in its planning. You know, Pat Risser
(02:50):
and Steve Stone, Uh, you know, originally sat down just
to talk about bringing a conference to Ashland County that
was different than what was typically offered, and that was
more of a medical model approaches what you usually get
out there, and they wanted to do something that was
the opposite of that, more psychosocial approaches and framework. So
(03:12):
we've been deliberate over all sixteen years of bringing in
topics and speakers that don't espouse a medical model view,
but something different, more of a holistic and like I say,
a non medical model view. I guess sometimes that's the
best way to say.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So you know, Pat, you know, passed away some years ago,
but we've continued to have both his widow, Trish and
our Pathway's Peer Recovery. They've been a core planning partner
for us and they were integral this year and bringing
in a couple of the speakers. So we just we
(03:50):
love that history of the conference that nothing about us
without us was something you know that grew out of
the consumer survivor a movement. Pat was our articulate and
that set it a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And so we've tried to always preserve that element to
the speakers into the content.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah. It's really fun doing the planning of the conference
with them too. We get to know them a little bit,
hear their stories, and they're they're really helpful in shaping
the conference.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah. I agree. So, you know, the first speaker right
out of the box was our box was our keynote,
Brooks seam Brooke. The keynote was bad medicine and I
present withdraw and the incalculable costs of medicating normal. And again,
you know, we had a teaser podcast with Brooke, uh
(04:38):
that folks can watch in one of our previous episodes. Uh.
Brooks book is you know, may Cause side Effects was
really I think the foundation for her presentation. She certainly
didn't talk through everything in her book, but she drew
from it at points. But I think brooks overarching message
(04:59):
was U, psychiatric drug withdrawal is a thing. Yeah, it's
not pleasant for a lot of folks and we don't
know near enough about it as a profession to assist
those that might be going through withdraw when they make
the decision to come off their medications. Yes. So I
think she went through a series of slides and discussion
(05:23):
with the audience about what we know, what we don't know,
what we think we know, and again and Brooke doesn't
you know she has even has a T shirt that says,
I'm not a doctor. She's a chef by training and profession,
but she is also somebody that after fifteen years of
being on medications to come off those and her journey,
(05:45):
and that's the memoir of her book, her journey coming off.
She's learned a lot and she's wanting to give back
to others that are going through a similar journey. I
think her book does that. I think her talk did
a wonderful of explaining some of what happened to her,
but also other people that she works with, and she
(06:06):
did a deep dive into the literature to educate herself.
I think she's talking about maybe what we think might work.
She talked about this concept of hyperbolic tapering as apposed
to linear tapering or going off things cold Turkey and
just all the advantages disadvantaged of what we know now.
But I think what the audience should know, doctor Ashley,
(06:27):
is it's an emerging science, if you will. We just
need to raise awareness that it's a thing. First and foremost,
we want folks to know that because you're on these medications,
particularly folks that are on it more than two or
five years, that you know, abruptly stopping them, there are consequences.
Our body reacts when we initially take the drugs, and
(06:48):
it also reacts when they're withdrawn. Because our bodies are
wonderful in that they can adapt to almost anything, and
some of these very very strong and powerful psychiatric medication
when introduced initially, our bodies have to go through all
kinds of let's just call them gymnastics gyrations, and to
(07:11):
adjust to what it's doing. But it gets to that
homeostasis as best it can. There are usually side effects,
drug effects, if you will, from the drugs initially, but
for the most part, there's compensatory it's the fancy term
compensatory mechanisms in place that the body develops to deal
with this these new chemicals that are flooding it. But
(07:33):
then once they're withdrawn, those compensatory mechanisms are like what
it's like having a pedal pushed down and then all
of a sudden, you know, it's not you know, the
the barrier that was keeping the car from going is removed,
but the pedal still doubt and the car shoots off.
So yeah, it's just and that takes time. That's what
(07:54):
she said over and over again. For her, it took,
you know, over a year, but other folks may be short,
other people longer.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So yeah, And I think one of the things I
took from Brooks talking in from her book, there's this
information that we know, right, but but a lot of
people are prescribed these medicines without being informed about that.
They don't they don't know that that's a possibility. Yeah,
and that we're we don't know a lot about like
taking people off of the medication.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, good point at she brought that up. If if
what we know now is you know, explained to her
before she made a decision, she said, I think I
probably would have made a very different decision. And that
was another big point she made. So for those that
are prescribers, the challenge is are we fully explaining to
(08:42):
folks not not in some little type eight font sheet
that nobody reads because there's thousands and thousands of words,
right that you just sign off on. But literally, they
actually have a conversation about likely effects if they start
a lot of more medications, and then the fact that
if they decide to discontinue that there's also very likely
(09:04):
to be effects. Are those conversations happening and if not,
they need to start. And when an individual maybe has
been on these medications per period of time they decide
to come off, doctors feeling comfortable helping them in that process.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Absolutely. Another thing in her title she talked about is
medicating normal. So she was prescribed medication at age fifteen
yep after her father passed away and she was grieving.
She was grieving, and I think that that's an important
point too, Like a lot of times what we are
medicating is normal. And we've talked about that on the podcast.
(09:42):
That's right, and we talked about it a lot, But
I think she kind of sent the message home. So
why are we prescribing medication for things that are normal
human experiences? If it's uncomfortable, we want to pill for
it to fix it.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Right, right? Because we tend to be uncomfortable with behaviors
we can't understand, or if we're the parent, you know,
with our children, that we don't understand, or maybe we're
embarrassed by so. And that'll come up in the next
session when we review that. But no, I appreciate you
bringing up that point, because Brooke said, you know, medications
(10:19):
really should be the last thing considered. One of the things.
She said, Well, she was grieving the loss of her
father and struggling in school. Why wasn't one of the
options to maybe take a break from school, take a
year off? You know, why wasn't that an option? Why
was medication something? Why was that more of an option
in taking a break from school to grieve the loss
(10:41):
and all the changes that brought to their family? Why
wasn't that more of an option? So I thought that
was powerful.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
That makes sense to me, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So that was our first That was our keynote bad medicine,
antidepressant withdrawal and the incalculable cost of medicating normal by
Brooks sing. Brooke did wonderful, So thank you, Brooke. And
then the next session involved Brook again, but this time
we brought her her mom on stage with her d
Barbish and d is a counsel in her own right.
(11:10):
But D and Brooke had this phenomenal conversation a podcast
on Matt America that I think we even referenced in
the previous episode. And when I first heard that this
was before we even made the decision to bring them
in or try to bring them in before the conference,
I just really was struck by how powerful that conversation was.
(11:32):
Again between so here we've got the child all grown
up talking to the parent about the decisions and what
was going on when the parents said, yes, I'm going
to medicate my child.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, it's really cool because you don't hear.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
That perspective and I didn't, And that's why I was
so keen to bring them both in and kind of
not exactly recreate what they did on the podcast, which
we'll link to and we have before, because I would
encourage our audience to listen to that when they have
a chance. I didn't want them to recreate that exactly,
but I did want them to do some of that
(12:09):
for our audience, because you're exactly right, doctor Ashley, those
conversations don't have it. I usually hear about how families
have been fractured because maybe son daughter is resentful about
maybe choices that were made for them when they were
a minor, and they're bearing the consequences of decisions made
for them, and they have a difficult time with forgiveness
(12:31):
and understanding of their parent, and it strains relationships. And
as you know, I'm a firm believer that the stronger
family relationships that we have in Ashon County and beyond
Ashen County in the world, the better our society, our
culture is going to be strong. Families are an essential
building block. So I also saw this as an opportunity
(12:51):
to maybe provide a way a vision forward for families
that maybe have been fractured by this issue. That seeing
Brooke and how they negotiated that, how they were able
to stay strong and connected through all the years in
spite of maybe some hard feelings and some disagreements. And
that's just why I was so interested in bringing them
(13:13):
in and trying to have this conversation to our audience
and hopefully others who watch it. Yeah yeah, yeah, well
you know so so D and Brooke talked about it.
They specifically talked about what was going on for D
when she, you know, made the decision to say okay
to medicating her child. And they talked about the griefs,
(13:36):
they talked about everything going on. And again, for me,
I think I just posted something on this on on
Instagram this morning. But for me, what I call the
mic drop is that is that what the kids say?
Is that what the kids say? Doctor? The mic drop
moment for me in the presentation between the two of
them is when D basically looked at the audience and
(14:00):
in response to Brooke asking her, well, Mom, was I
was I better once they started me on these medications?
And she looked and said to us, no, you weren't better,
but I felt better As a parent, I felt better.
So ultimately the decision helped me rather than you.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, that was powerful.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah. Yeah. And because whether that's conscious, and I think
most of the time it's unconsciously, parents make this decision
to medicate the child because they don't know what to do.
Maybe they're a little bit embarrassed and feel out of
control by the behaviors of the sudden daughter. And you've
(14:45):
got professionals more than willing to say no, this is
the right thing to do. And as as D said,
they've got an MD, they got all these fancy credentials
after their name. You know, they're telling me it's the
right thing to do, and once I start, yeah, things
are different from my child. But the question at that
point isn't so much about is it helping them, but
(15:07):
it's helped me. And I just thought that was honest. Yeah.
I think it's not as though d was saying she
was proud of that decision and she was just trying
to explain it.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I think she's had a lot of time to process it,
and like she has a lot of insight that you know,
like you're saying, it's not usually such a conscious thing,
but parents sometimes are pressured, you know, they're hearing from
the school that maybe their child's engaging in this behavior,
and then they the parent is pressured to take action
in some way. Yes, and so she I think she
(15:39):
was expressing, like, I feel better because I'm doing what
I'm supposed to do. Yeah, I'm taking some action. I'm
not just not doing nothing right.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Because that would be seen as abuse. Right, Yeah, how
can you now that this is brought to your at
tension by schools or other folks, how can you do nothing?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
But she's saying I didn't see a positive change after
you started taking that medicine, it was really cool.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Why continue the daughter on it because it was helpful
to her? So now again I don't want the audience
get the wrong impression of d. D wasn't you know,
she wasn't saying she was right. She was just trying
to explain it. And I think her point was parent,
you need to examine if that's why you're doing it,
(16:22):
you maybe should rethink doing it. If it ultimately isn't
benefiting the child but you get some benefit from it,
that's not the calculus. That's not the way to think
about the issue. Is it truly benefiting you know someone
I think it was D made reference to, you know,
if a young person is crying before they take their medications,
(16:44):
that should matter. Yeah, right, because there are drug effects
whether you're an adult or a child. And as D's
had to wrestle with. As Brooke pointed out her talking,
I mean she felt like, you know, those fifteen years
were almost like lost years, those years she was on
those medications because she didn't develop. She had all kinds
of medical complications, some that persist to this day, many
(17:06):
that god have been ameliorated once she discontinued. But not
all so, and again you can't get that time back.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
That was powerful because you know, as they had the discussion,
you know, Brooke said, oh, I either made choices or
didn't make choices because of the medications, and you look
back at what you could have done, would have done,
you know, decisions that were made rather than other decisions.
And because now that she's gotten off of them, she
thinks about things entirely differently, And if she were thinking
(17:37):
that way back then, her life would have been different.
So it's hard to you don't want to, you know,
want to live there, but you can't help but notice it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, she talked about you know, time lost and the
trajectory being different than in her career and and just
in life in general. I think that's the incalculable cost
that she's talking about. How do you quantify the time
that she lost or the you know, the income that
she could have made a different job, or you know,
all of those costs.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And at little insight here, I don't think she would
mind me sharing this. I spoke a little bit with
Brooke at the end of the conference, and you know,
I said something to the effect about, you know, you know,
you must feel like you need to hurry up and
do a bunch of stuff since she lost all that time.
And she pushed back and said, not really, it's not
so much about that. It's about it wasn't about quantity
(18:26):
for her. She said, she's very, very thoughtful about how
she spends her time, all of her time. Yeah, I
thought that was really interesting. I always wish I would
have asked her that during her presentation, because so that's
why I'm sharing it out doctorsha. But I really thought
about that all night after she said that. It's so
she's she really considers because of the lost time, and
(18:49):
that means less time left.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You see, she appreciates the time more.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Maybe, yes, she appreciates it and she really thinks through,
is this how I want to invest my very precious time? Yeah,
this call whatever it is, you know, fun time or
professional time, you know, but anyway, that's just a really
interesting Yeah, so interesting that. You know, again, that's a
perspective that you wouldn't have unless you've gone through something.
(19:15):
Maybe she's gone through. So that was so great count
you know, So we had both of them together on stage,
So I really think the audience is going to love
that conversation too, And I.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Just want to say working with them, they were both
just sweet people, very kind and helpful in the planning
of the conference. They were great to work with. Thank
them both so much.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, they were wonderful. Yeah, you know, we had an
opportunity then for folks to buy and talk to buy
her book and talk to Brook about it and get
it signed. And we went into lunch and shout out
to AU here the catering. They always do a wonderful job.
Most of the folks here in Nashton County understand that,
but I still always think it's nice. Erica and her
(19:56):
staff are wonderful to work with, and it's always like
to give a shout out to AU. And we moved
into our our afternoon sessions and d kick things off
talking about experiencing compassion key and for our audience, let
me just summarize briefly. I think a lot of folks
know what cognitive behavioral therapy is, or they've heard of
(20:19):
other types of therapy. I don't want to say freud,
but people have seen it in movies and television shows.
But the idea of psychoanalysis, you know, that's probably a
term folks are familiar with well, compassion key is this.
It's a type of working with folks that are maybe struggling,
and it's newer. It does have some cognitive elements to it,
(20:42):
but it is different and certainly different to our county.
We don't have any practitioners of this particular model type,
so d knew that when she was coming in. Uh
so she gave us a nice overview. She only had
about an hour, so she gave the audience a nice
overview what that is. And I think the crux of
it for me and doctor actually you weigh in your
(21:03):
therapist as well as a therapist. I was really listening
to it more from how is this similar or different
than other approaches I've been trained in? Yeah, And like
I said, it was the self statements. It's not the
only model that uses self statements, but it was. She
used the self statements differently, this idea of saying compassionate
things to yourself as a way to maybe help yourself
(21:26):
towards a goal. Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Right, Yeah, I thought that was good.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
So that that was the crux of it for me.
Now there's I don't want to get into all the
techniques she used, but I think if you watch it,
it's something to consider. The only thing I would have
to say to the audience is there's not a lot
of practitioners. The good thing about this model is it
can be done online or over the phone. Even in fact,
(21:50):
it's almost preferable for a lot of people, so you
might be able to if you can't find a compassion
key practitioner in Ohio or somebody within driving distance, it's
perfectly fine to do this via telehealth.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
So yeah, one of my favorite parts about that presentation
is how Dee talked about people's experiences and trauma. Right,
so we talk about trauma informed care a lot de emphasized.
You know, it's not about what's wrong with a person,
but what happened to them and then went through this process.
It's experiential, so it's kind of like other techniques counselors
(22:24):
used in that way. So you actually are experiencing that
in the training even, which was really cool, and I
could see how that would be really helpful for some people.
And I've actually heard even after the conference yesterday, people
were struck by it and then it was helpful, So
it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, it really was. I want to move on to
our second afternoon, Ron Basman, who was in Colorado. We
zoomed him in. Ron is kind of a legend in
the consumer survivor movement. I'm just honored that he was
willing to give us some of his time the audience
(23:02):
if they watched the playback. We had a little bit
of a tech staff who it's always challenging to zoom
people in from remote locales cashionly kind of. But once
we got Ron on and talking again, he shared a
lot of his story, which is powerful. But also Ron
gave us a nice little history lesson of the consumer
survivor movement. But he also discussed maybe how working with
(23:24):
families individually and group in a peer way, so groups,
you know, the peer experiences, So if they had a
son or a daughter that was struggling, or they were
struggling themselves, to utilize more of a peer model, maybe
have a professional facilitate that. But that there's a lot
of power in sharing those stories, successes, all those things,
(23:46):
getting families together rather than families being gathered together and
then a model kind of imposed on them. It draws
more from their experiences. It was just a slightly different
take and it comes from I think Ron's history, which
a lot of the professional, if you will, or the established,
(24:08):
you know, approaches weren't helpful to him. So he really
is intentionally tried to develop alternatives for folks individually or
collectively as families that would be in his mind, more helpful.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, it's differently informed than other approaches because he has
that experience. He's he's a professional in mental health, but
he's also had you know, he was a patient in
a mental hospital, like he has that experience also, and
he emphasizes the importance of family in the process of recovering.
And I love that.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah. Absolutely, Last, but not least, was our friend Stanley Frankart.
Stanley is a robust, powerful speaker speak he is. We
put him last intentionally because just in case doctor Ashley,
any of the attendees were getting a little a little tired,
we needed somebody to perk them up, and Stanley was
(25:02):
the perfect fit. And Stanley does trainings here in Ohio
around the peer support model. So his his talk was
peer support and an evidence based look into the importance
of peer support. And so he talked about, you know,
the training, what it means to be a peer supporter
in Ohio. He talked about the training and ongoing education
(25:24):
that's required. He talked a lot about how being a
peer supporter is similar and different to maybe some of
the other disciplines like counselors and social workers.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah, I loved in his talk. He shared a little
of his history too, so he was I think he
said he had a life sentence, he was in prison
and then got out and he had a heck of
a time finding a job. He talked about that and
then found a passion for peer support and peer recovery.
That's why he's doing what he's doing now. And I
loved hearing that. So again another consumer and he he's
(25:58):
sharing and learned, like sharing his learning from his experiences, right.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
And that's that's the key for the peer support or
the peer supporter is in an appropriate way, they leverage
or utilize their own recovery story to help others. And
as Stanley said, because of his unique history with criminal
justice system, you know, that's kind of where he works
best with other folks that have had a similar history
(26:23):
to his. So whether that's somebody maybe transitioning out of
jail or a prison, or struggling in recovery, maybe in
a recovery house or something like that. So somebody that's
struggling to get employment. He talked about how hard it
was for him with the felony conviction to find employment,
and I can only imagine you know, him sitting down saying, listen,
(26:43):
I had seven hundred things, you know, seven hundred applications,
you know, rejected until I got somebody that was, you know,
helping somebody be patient, explain you know, you're not the
only one maybe helping people find friendly employers. I mean,
so not only can he use his personal experience in
his recovery journey, but then he can also I think,
(27:05):
share successes what he's.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Learned absolutely to help others.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Well, now you know he'd be Stanley smile if he
heard you say that, because you know, hope was a
big theme in Stanley's presentation. And I just I really
enjoyed meeting Stanley in person. And I would say, if
you're looking for a speaker at an event, all of
our speakers are wonderful. I would consider getting in a
(27:31):
hold of doctor Ashley or or I. We can put
you in touch with any of our speakers, and Stanley
is a wonderful one. If you're looking for somebody with
a lot of high energy and passionate. I am drawn.
Whether it was Broke or d Ron, all of our
speakers they have passion for what they're doing. And I've
found doctor Ashley, over the years of doing these these
(27:53):
events and trainings, not just our s VP, all we do,
you can't substitute for passion. So our speakers tend to
be extremely passionate about what they're doing. Whether people agree
or not, they can't say that they don't really care
about what they're doing, and that matters to.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Be Yes, we can't thank them enough. I mean, this
year speakers were amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
So I agree, Well, well, thank you for you know,
taking time to recap it. I know you're you're ready
for a nap. That's fine, You've earned it, Doctor Ashley.
The conference was a success. I thank all all the
folks that came, either in person or zoom. We really
appreciate the community support, the support of the Mental Health
and Recovery Board, our contract partners apple Seed at Caden
(28:37):
Catholic Charities. Thank you and until next time, Doctor Ashley,
Let's keep Ashland healthy. Thank you for listening to another
episode of the Keeping National and Healthy Podcast. The podcast
is a production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board
of Ashland County, Ohio. You can reach the Board by
calling four one nine two eight one three one three nine.
Please remember that the Board funds a local twenty four
(28:57):
to seven crisis line through Appleseed Community Mental Health Center.
It can be reached by calling four one nine two
eight nine sixty one one one. That's four one nine
two eight nine six one one one. Until next time.
Please join us in keeping Ashland healthy.
Welcome. You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a
podcast production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of
Ashland County, Ohio. Thanks for joining us, and welcome back
to another episode. In this particular episode, Doctor Ashley and
I do a recap of this year's sixteenth annual pat
Risser r SVP Conference. And let me say just from
(00:25):
the bat, we just appreciate everybody that participated, our speakers,
all of our conference attendees, those that tabled at the event,
board members. It was just another wonderful, successful event, the
RSVP conference, and I think those that couldn't make the event,
either in person or zoom, will find value in the recap.
(00:49):
And again, as we'll put in the episode description, folks
will be able to watch the conference in its entirety
later on this month. Thank you. Well, Good morning, doctor Ashley.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Good morning, Boss, I'm doing great. How are you this morning?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I'm tired, Doctor Ashley.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I feel a little tired.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yes, honestly so, audience. We have just finished up the
rs VP, the sixteenth annual pat Risser rs VP conference. Uh,
it was wonderful, but uh, if you know you've ever
been involved with planning an event. There are a lot
of little details.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
It's a lot, yeah, a lot of work, but uh.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It really paid off. We thought it'd be a good idea. Uh.
Not everybody was able to attend in person or over zoom.
And we do plan on releasing the recording, uh in
a few weeks to the general public. We want to
respect an honor of those that did pay give them
first crack at it, and they can rewatch it again.
(01:50):
But eventually here in a few weeks, like I say,
we'll post it. But it was just it was great information,
great speakers, great turnout. Uh, and we're just excited to
get of everybody. Just a kind of a recap if
you will, Yeah, and just talk through what happened, and
uh hopefully it'll encourage you enough to watch the recording
(02:11):
once we make that, uh make that live on our
website or on our YouTube channel. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
I think it was a great day, So I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, you were. You were pretty busy. I saw you
running around. You were just a flash. I really didn't
have a chance to talk too much.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I know that's true.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
There are so many details. Uh again, maybe to start off,
when we first were talking about the conference a month
or so ago. I think we did touch a little
bit on the history, but I'll say just briefly, the
rs VP conference is different because it's always involved consumers,
consumers survivors specifically in its planning. You know, Pat Risser
(02:50):
and Steve Stone, Uh, you know, originally sat down just
to talk about bringing a conference to Ashland County that
was different than what was typically offered, and that was
more of a medical model approaches what you usually get
out there, and they wanted to do something that was
the opposite of that, more psychosocial approaches and framework. So
(03:12):
we've been deliberate over all sixteen years of bringing in
topics and speakers that don't espouse a medical model view,
but something different, more of a holistic and like I say,
a non medical model view. I guess sometimes that's the
best way to say.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So you know, Pat, you know, passed away some years ago,
but we've continued to have both his widow, Trish and
our Pathway's Peer Recovery. They've been a core planning partner
for us and they were integral this year and bringing
in a couple of the speakers. So we just we
(03:50):
love that history of the conference that nothing about us
without us was something you know that grew out of
the consumer survivor a movement. Pat was our articulate and
that set it a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And so we've tried to always preserve that element to
the speakers into the content.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah. It's really fun doing the planning of the conference
with them too. We get to know them a little bit,
hear their stories, and they're they're really helpful in shaping
the conference.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah. I agree. So, you know, the first speaker right
out of the box was our box was our keynote,
Brooks seam Brooke. The keynote was bad medicine and I
present withdraw and the incalculable costs of medicating normal. And again,
you know, we had a teaser podcast with Brooke, uh
(04:38):
that folks can watch in one of our previous episodes. Uh.
Brooks book is you know, may Cause side Effects was
really I think the foundation for her presentation. She certainly
didn't talk through everything in her book, but she drew
from it at points. But I think brooks overarching message
(04:59):
was U, psychiatric drug withdrawal is a thing. Yeah, it's
not pleasant for a lot of folks and we don't
know near enough about it as a profession to assist
those that might be going through withdraw when they make
the decision to come off their medications. Yes. So I
think she went through a series of slides and discussion
(05:23):
with the audience about what we know, what we don't know,
what we think we know, and again and Brooke doesn't
you know she has even has a T shirt that says,
I'm not a doctor. She's a chef by training and profession,
but she is also somebody that after fifteen years of
being on medications to come off those and her journey,
(05:45):
and that's the memoir of her book, her journey coming off.
She's learned a lot and she's wanting to give back
to others that are going through a similar journey. I
think her book does that. I think her talk did
a wonderful of explaining some of what happened to her,
but also other people that she works with, and she
(06:06):
did a deep dive into the literature to educate herself.
I think she's talking about maybe what we think might work.
She talked about this concept of hyperbolic tapering as apposed
to linear tapering or going off things cold Turkey and
just all the advantages disadvantaged of what we know now.
But I think what the audience should know, doctor Ashley,
(06:27):
is it's an emerging science, if you will. We just
need to raise awareness that it's a thing. First and foremost,
we want folks to know that because you're on these medications,
particularly folks that are on it more than two or
five years, that you know, abruptly stopping them, there are consequences.
Our body reacts when we initially take the drugs, and
(06:48):
it also reacts when they're withdrawn. Because our bodies are
wonderful in that they can adapt to almost anything, and
some of these very very strong and powerful psychiatric medication
when introduced initially, our bodies have to go through all
kinds of let's just call them gymnastics gyrations, and to
(07:11):
adjust to what it's doing. But it gets to that
homeostasis as best it can. There are usually side effects,
drug effects, if you will, from the drugs initially, but
for the most part, there's compensatory it's the fancy term
compensatory mechanisms in place that the body develops to deal
with this these new chemicals that are flooding it. But
(07:33):
then once they're withdrawn, those compensatory mechanisms are like what
it's like having a pedal pushed down and then all
of a sudden, you know, it's not you know, the
the barrier that was keeping the car from going is removed,
but the pedal still doubt and the car shoots off.
So yeah, it's just and that takes time. That's what
(07:54):
she said over and over again. For her, it took,
you know, over a year, but other folks may be short,
other people longer.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So yeah, And I think one of the things I
took from Brooks talking in from her book, there's this
information that we know, right, but but a lot of
people are prescribed these medicines without being informed about that.
They don't they don't know that that's a possibility. Yeah,
and that we're we don't know a lot about like
taking people off of the medication.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, good point at she brought that up. If if
what we know now is you know, explained to her
before she made a decision, she said, I think I
probably would have made a very different decision. And that
was another big point she made. So for those that
are prescribers, the challenge is are we fully explaining to
(08:42):
folks not not in some little type eight font sheet
that nobody reads because there's thousands and thousands of words,
right that you just sign off on. But literally, they
actually have a conversation about likely effects if they start
a lot of more medications, and then the fact that
if they decide to discontinue that there's also very likely
(09:04):
to be effects. Are those conversations happening and if not,
they need to start. And when an individual maybe has
been on these medications per period of time they decide
to come off, doctors feeling comfortable helping them in that process.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Absolutely. Another thing in her title she talked about is
medicating normal. So she was prescribed medication at age fifteen
yep after her father passed away and she was grieving.
She was grieving, and I think that that's an important
point too, Like a lot of times what we are
medicating is normal. And we've talked about that on the podcast.
(09:42):
That's right, and we talked about it a lot, But
I think she kind of sent the message home. So
why are we prescribing medication for things that are normal
human experiences? If it's uncomfortable, we want to pill for
it to fix it.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Right, right? Because we tend to be uncomfortable with behaviors
we can't understand, or if we're the parent, you know,
with our children, that we don't understand, or maybe we're
embarrassed by so. And that'll come up in the next
session when we review that. But no, I appreciate you
bringing up that point, because Brooke said, you know, medications
(10:19):
really should be the last thing considered. One of the things.
She said, Well, she was grieving the loss of her
father and struggling in school. Why wasn't one of the
options to maybe take a break from school, take a
year off? You know, why wasn't that an option? Why
was medication something? Why was that more of an option
in taking a break from school to grieve the loss
(10:41):
and all the changes that brought to their family? Why
wasn't that more of an option? So I thought that
was powerful.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
That makes sense to me, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So that was our first That was our keynote bad medicine,
antidepressant withdrawal and the incalculable cost of medicating normal by
Brooks sing. Brooke did wonderful, So thank you, Brooke. And
then the next session involved Brook again, but this time
we brought her her mom on stage with her d
Barbish and d is a counsel in her own right.
(11:10):
But D and Brooke had this phenomenal conversation a podcast
on Matt America that I think we even referenced in
the previous episode. And when I first heard that this
was before we even made the decision to bring them
in or try to bring them in before the conference,
I just really was struck by how powerful that conversation was.
(11:32):
Again between so here we've got the child all grown
up talking to the parent about the decisions and what
was going on when the parents said, yes, I'm going
to medicate my child.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah, it's really cool because you don't hear.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
That perspective and I didn't, And that's why I was
so keen to bring them both in and kind of
not exactly recreate what they did on the podcast, which
we'll link to and we have before, because I would
encourage our audience to listen to that when they have
a chance. I didn't want them to recreate that exactly,
but I did want them to do some of that
(12:09):
for our audience, because you're exactly right, doctor Ashley, those
conversations don't have it. I usually hear about how families
have been fractured because maybe son daughter is resentful about
maybe choices that were made for them when they were
a minor, and they're bearing the consequences of decisions made
for them, and they have a difficult time with forgiveness
(12:31):
and understanding of their parent, and it strains relationships. And
as you know, I'm a firm believer that the stronger
family relationships that we have in Ashon County and beyond
Ashen County in the world, the better our society, our
culture is going to be strong. Families are an essential
building block. So I also saw this as an opportunity
(12:51):
to maybe provide a way a vision forward for families
that maybe have been fractured by this issue. That seeing
Brooke and how they negotiated that, how they were able
to stay strong and connected through all the years in
spite of maybe some hard feelings and some disagreements. And
that's just why I was so interested in bringing them
(13:13):
in and trying to have this conversation to our audience
and hopefully others who watch it. Yeah yeah, yeah, well
you know so so D and Brooke talked about it.
They specifically talked about what was going on for D
when she, you know, made the decision to say okay
to medicating her child. And they talked about the griefs,
(13:36):
they talked about everything going on. And again, for me,
I think I just posted something on this on on
Instagram this morning. But for me, what I call the
mic drop is that is that what the kids say?
Is that what the kids say? Doctor? The mic drop
moment for me in the presentation between the two of
them is when D basically looked at the audience and
(14:00):
in response to Brooke asking her, well, Mom, was I
was I better once they started me on these medications?
And she looked and said to us, no, you weren't better,
but I felt better As a parent, I felt better.
So ultimately the decision helped me rather than you.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, that was powerful.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah. Yeah. And because whether that's conscious, and I think
most of the time it's unconsciously, parents make this decision
to medicate the child because they don't know what to do.
Maybe they're a little bit embarrassed and feel out of
control by the behaviors of the sudden daughter. And you've
(14:45):
got professionals more than willing to say no, this is
the right thing to do. And as as D said,
they've got an MD, they got all these fancy credentials
after their name. You know, they're telling me it's the
right thing to do, and once I start, yeah, things
are different from my child. But the question at that
point isn't so much about is it helping them, but
(15:07):
it's helped me. And I just thought that was honest. Yeah.
I think it's not as though d was saying she
was proud of that decision and she was just trying
to explain it.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I think she's had a lot of time to process it,
and like she has a lot of insight that you know,
like you're saying, it's not usually such a conscious thing,
but parents sometimes are pressured, you know, they're hearing from
the school that maybe their child's engaging in this behavior,
and then they the parent is pressured to take action
in some way. Yes, and so she I think she
(15:39):
was expressing, like, I feel better because I'm doing what
I'm supposed to do. Yeah, I'm taking some action. I'm
not just not doing nothing right.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Because that would be seen as abuse. Right, Yeah, how
can you now that this is brought to your at
tension by schools or other folks, how can you do nothing?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
But she's saying I didn't see a positive change after
you started taking that medicine, it was really cool.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Why continue the daughter on it because it was helpful
to her? So now again I don't want the audience
get the wrong impression of d. D wasn't you know,
she wasn't saying she was right. She was just trying
to explain it. And I think her point was parent,
you need to examine if that's why you're doing it,
(16:22):
you maybe should rethink doing it. If it ultimately isn't
benefiting the child but you get some benefit from it,
that's not the calculus. That's not the way to think
about the issue. Is it truly benefiting you know someone
I think it was D made reference to, you know,
if a young person is crying before they take their medications,
(16:44):
that should matter. Yeah, right, because there are drug effects
whether you're an adult or a child. And as D's
had to wrestle with. As Brooke pointed out her talking,
I mean she felt like, you know, those fifteen years
were almost like lost years, those years she was on
those medications because she didn't develop. She had all kinds
of medical complications, some that persist to this day, many
(17:06):
that god have been ameliorated once she discontinued. But not
all so, and again you can't get that time back.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
That was powerful because you know, as they had the discussion,
you know, Brooke said, oh, I either made choices or
didn't make choices because of the medications, and you look
back at what you could have done, would have done,
you know, decisions that were made rather than other decisions.
And because now that she's gotten off of them, she
thinks about things entirely differently, And if she were thinking
(17:37):
that way back then, her life would have been different.
So it's hard to you don't want to, you know,
want to live there, but you can't help but notice it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, she talked about you know, time lost and the
trajectory being different than in her career and and just
in life in general. I think that's the incalculable cost
that she's talking about. How do you quantify the time
that she lost or the you know, the income that
she could have made a different job, or you know,
all of those costs.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And at little insight here, I don't think she would
mind me sharing this. I spoke a little bit with
Brooke at the end of the conference, and you know,
I said something to the effect about, you know, you know,
you must feel like you need to hurry up and
do a bunch of stuff since she lost all that time.
And she pushed back and said, not really, it's not
so much about that. It's about it wasn't about quantity
(18:26):
for her. She said, she's very, very thoughtful about how
she spends her time, all of her time. Yeah, I
thought that was really interesting. I always wish I would
have asked her that during her presentation, because so that's
why I'm sharing it out doctorsha. But I really thought
about that all night after she said that. It's so
she's she really considers because of the lost time, and
(18:49):
that means less time left.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
You see, she appreciates the time more.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Maybe, yes, she appreciates it and she really thinks through,
is this how I want to invest my very precious time? Yeah,
this call whatever it is, you know, fun time or
professional time, you know, but anyway, that's just a really
interesting Yeah, so interesting that. You know, again, that's a
perspective that you wouldn't have unless you've gone through something.
(19:15):
Maybe she's gone through. So that was so great count
you know, So we had both of them together on stage,
So I really think the audience is going to love
that conversation too, And I.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Just want to say working with them, they were both
just sweet people, very kind and helpful in the planning
of the conference. They were great to work with. Thank
them both so much.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, they were wonderful. Yeah, you know, we had an
opportunity then for folks to buy and talk to buy
her book and talk to Brook about it and get
it signed. And we went into lunch and shout out
to AU here the catering. They always do a wonderful job.
Most of the folks here in Nashton County understand that,
but I still always think it's nice. Erica and her
(19:56):
staff are wonderful to work with, and it's always like
to give a shout out to AU. And we moved
into our our afternoon sessions and d kick things off
talking about experiencing compassion key and for our audience, let
me just summarize briefly. I think a lot of folks
know what cognitive behavioral therapy is, or they've heard of
(20:19):
other types of therapy. I don't want to say freud,
but people have seen it in movies and television shows.
But the idea of psychoanalysis, you know, that's probably a
term folks are familiar with well, compassion key is this.
It's a type of working with folks that are maybe struggling,
and it's newer. It does have some cognitive elements to it,
(20:42):
but it is different and certainly different to our county.
We don't have any practitioners of this particular model type,
so d knew that when she was coming in. Uh
so she gave us a nice overview. She only had
about an hour, so she gave the audience a nice
overview what that is. And I think the crux of
it for me and doctor actually you weigh in your
(21:03):
therapist as well as a therapist. I was really listening
to it more from how is this similar or different
than other approaches I've been trained in? Yeah, And like
I said, it was the self statements. It's not the
only model that uses self statements, but it was. She
used the self statements differently, this idea of saying compassionate
things to yourself as a way to maybe help yourself
(21:26):
towards a goal. Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Right, Yeah, I thought that was good.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
So that that was the crux of it for me.
Now there's I don't want to get into all the
techniques she used, but I think if you watch it,
it's something to consider. The only thing I would have
to say to the audience is there's not a lot
of practitioners. The good thing about this model is it
can be done online or over the phone. Even in fact,
(21:50):
it's almost preferable for a lot of people, so you
might be able to if you can't find a compassion
key practitioner in Ohio or somebody within driving distance, it's
perfectly fine to do this via telehealth.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
So yeah, one of my favorite parts about that presentation
is how Dee talked about people's experiences and trauma. Right,
so we talk about trauma informed care a lot de emphasized.
You know, it's not about what's wrong with a person,
but what happened to them and then went through this process.
It's experiential, so it's kind of like other techniques counselors
(22:24):
used in that way. So you actually are experiencing that
in the training even, which was really cool, and I
could see how that would be really helpful for some people.
And I've actually heard even after the conference yesterday, people
were struck by it and then it was helpful, So
it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Yeah, it really was. I want to move on to
our second afternoon, Ron Basman, who was in Colorado. We
zoomed him in. Ron is kind of a legend in
the consumer survivor movement. I'm just honored that he was
willing to give us some of his time the audience
(23:02):
if they watched the playback. We had a little bit
of a tech staff who it's always challenging to zoom
people in from remote locales cashionly kind of. But once
we got Ron on and talking again, he shared a
lot of his story, which is powerful. But also Ron
gave us a nice little history lesson of the consumer
survivor movement. But he also discussed maybe how working with
(23:24):
families individually and group in a peer way, so groups,
you know, the peer experiences, So if they had a
son or a daughter that was struggling, or they were
struggling themselves, to utilize more of a peer model, maybe
have a professional facilitate that. But that there's a lot
of power in sharing those stories, successes, all those things,
(23:46):
getting families together rather than families being gathered together and
then a model kind of imposed on them. It draws
more from their experiences. It was just a slightly different
take and it comes from I think Ron's history, which
a lot of the professional, if you will, or the established,
(24:08):
you know, approaches weren't helpful to him. So he really
is intentionally tried to develop alternatives for folks individually or
collectively as families that would be in his mind, more helpful.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, it's differently informed than other approaches because he has
that experience. He's he's a professional in mental health, but
he's also had you know, he was a patient in
a mental hospital, like he has that experience also, and
he emphasizes the importance of family in the process of recovering.
And I love that.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah. Absolutely, Last, but not least, was our friend Stanley Frankart.
Stanley is a robust, powerful speaker speak he is. We
put him last intentionally because just in case doctor Ashley,
any of the attendees were getting a little a little tired,
we needed somebody to perk them up, and Stanley was
(25:02):
the perfect fit. And Stanley does trainings here in Ohio
around the peer support model. So his his talk was
peer support and an evidence based look into the importance
of peer support. And so he talked about, you know,
the training, what it means to be a peer supporter
in Ohio. He talked about the training and ongoing education
(25:24):
that's required. He talked a lot about how being a
peer supporter is similar and different to maybe some of
the other disciplines like counselors and social workers.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah, I loved in his talk. He shared a little
of his history too, so he was I think he
said he had a life sentence, he was in prison
and then got out and he had a heck of
a time finding a job. He talked about that and
then found a passion for peer support and peer recovery.
That's why he's doing what he's doing now. And I
loved hearing that. So again another consumer and he he's
(25:58):
sharing and learned, like sharing his learning from his experiences, right.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
And that's that's the key for the peer support or
the peer supporter is in an appropriate way, they leverage
or utilize their own recovery story to help others. And
as Stanley said, because of his unique history with criminal
justice system, you know, that's kind of where he works
best with other folks that have had a similar history
(26:23):
to his. So whether that's somebody maybe transitioning out of
jail or a prison, or struggling in recovery, maybe in
a recovery house or something like that. So somebody that's
struggling to get employment. He talked about how hard it
was for him with the felony conviction to find employment,
and I can only imagine you know, him sitting down saying, listen,
(26:43):
I had seven hundred things, you know, seven hundred applications,
you know, rejected until I got somebody that was, you know,
helping somebody be patient, explain you know, you're not the
only one maybe helping people find friendly employers. I mean,
so not only can he use his personal experience in
his recovery journey, but then he can also I think,
(27:05):
share successes what he's.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Learned absolutely to help others.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Well, now you know he'd be Stanley smile if he
heard you say that, because you know, hope was a
big theme in Stanley's presentation. And I just I really
enjoyed meeting Stanley in person. And I would say, if
you're looking for a speaker at an event, all of
our speakers are wonderful. I would consider getting in a
(27:31):
hold of doctor Ashley or or I. We can put
you in touch with any of our speakers, and Stanley
is a wonderful one. If you're looking for somebody with
a lot of high energy and passionate. I am drawn.
Whether it was Broke or d Ron, all of our
speakers they have passion for what they're doing. And I've
found doctor Ashley, over the years of doing these these
(27:53):
events and trainings, not just our s VP, all we do,
you can't substitute for passion. So our speakers tend to
be extremely passionate about what they're doing. Whether people agree
or not, they can't say that they don't really care
about what they're doing, and that matters to.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Be Yes, we can't thank them enough. I mean, this
year speakers were amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
So I agree, Well, well, thank you for you know,
taking time to recap it. I know you're you're ready
for a nap. That's fine, You've earned it, Doctor Ashley.
The conference was a success. I thank all all the
folks that came, either in person or zoom. We really
appreciate the community support, the support of the Mental Health
and Recovery Board, our contract partners apple Seed at Caden
(28:37):
Catholic Charities. Thank you and until next time, Doctor Ashley,
Let's keep Ashland healthy. Thank you for listening to another
episode of the Keeping National and Healthy Podcast. The podcast
is a production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board
of Ashland County, Ohio. You can reach the Board by
calling four one nine two eight one three one three nine.
Please remember that the Board funds a local twenty four
(28:57):
to seven crisis line through Appleseed Community Mental Health Center.
It can be reached by calling four one nine two
eight nine sixty one one one. That's four one nine
two eight nine six one one one. Until next time.
Please join us in keeping Ashland healthy.
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