April 23, 2025 • 22 mins
In today’s episode, Dr. Ashley and the Boss discuss a recent article by Joy Pullman at The Federalist. Her shocking first line, “For decades, the U.S. medical system has delivered amphetamines to skyrocketing numbers of Americans without clear evidence a defined disorder exists or of any long-term effects.” Additionally, Dr. Ashley and the Boss highlight the ADHD Alternative Program at Appleseed, Prevention Services at ACCADA, and the Healthy Kids/Strong Families at Catholic Charities. For additional information, visit the Board’s website or call us at 419.281.3139.
(Record Date: April 17, 2025)
(Record Date: April 17, 2025)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, good morning, doctor Ashley. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm doing great. How are you this morning?
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm doing well. This is another exciting episode of the
Keeping Ashland Healthy podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yes, it really is.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We have got a news article that is really it's
starting to break everywhere doctors give kids ADHD drugs for
adults convenience. This is by Joy Pullman and she's writing
the article based on this upcoming piece that again not
everybody maybe has access to because it's behind a paywall,
(00:34):
so it's been referenced a few radio stations. I listen
to some podcasts I listen to news podcasts are talking
about this, this piece. It's getting a lot of I
think the controversial title and just the issue. I think
all of us know, whether it's an adult or a
young person that might be struggling or been diagnosed with ADHD.
(00:58):
It's just it's it's it's just so prevalent and so commonplace.
I think that's why there's such interest in it.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, that's interesting. I was actually surprised to see that
it was on such a big, big news article, you know,
because we talk about this stuff all the time, but
for it to be in New York Times like, that's
pretty cool, right.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So Paul Tough t O U. G. H. Is the
one that's going to be doing the article in New
York Magazine, but Joy Pullman is the author that we're
going to be quoting and reading from, who is again
talking about the Paul Tough article. One of the things
she starts out by saying is just the scale of
the issue. Nearly a quarter of seventeen year old American
(01:39):
boys have a diagnosis of ADHD, and that's more than
triple than what it was in the mid nineties. So
we've seen a rise. I think particularly this came out
during the pandemic, when I think there were even shortages
of some of the medications that are used to help
folks that are struggling with ADHD. But one of the
(02:01):
quotes that got me was a quote. From twenty twelve
to twenty twenty two, the total number of prescriptions for
stimulants to treat ADHD increased in the United States by
fifty eight percent ten years.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Fifty eight percent. Yeah, that's astonishing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
In twenty twelve, Americans in their thirties in their thirties
were issued five million prescriptions for stimulants to treat ADHD.
A decade later, that figure had more than tripled, rising
to eighteen million prescriptions for stimulants. So and again if
the audience, if you don't know, you know stimulants are
(02:38):
the primary psychiatric or medical intervention to assist those they're struggling.
But the trouble is is, as we've talked on other podcasts,
the ADHD diagnosis, like all other psychiatric diagnosis, are not
based on a brain scan or some kind of blood draw.
(02:58):
These are symptoms of what we call clusters of symptoms.
In our diagnostic process. In our DSM Diagnostic and Statistical
Manual is set up that way, so we look for
clusters of symptoms that cause, you know, more or less
impairment in the person's what we call daily functioning, and
(03:20):
that's primarily how we diagnose symptom clusters. And again that
for maybe some of the audience, they don't know. They
I think there might be a scan, there might be
some kind of measuring of chemicals in the body like that,
and there's nothing like that. So that's always a challenge
(03:41):
because when we see these kind of increases in so
called diagnosis zs, we wonder how much of this is
really something that's real biological versus something that might be
psychological or sociological or some combination of the two. So
in his article supposedly goes on to talk about some
(04:03):
of the negative effects of the amphetamines, particularly riddling and
some of these other apfetamines, and he looks at a
lot of the studies and says, you know, there's really
not a lot of difference between young people with the
diagnosis that are medicated versus not medicated in terms of learning,
ability to learn, et cetera. But he did note that
(04:24):
the studies seemed to indicate that a lot of folks
on the riddling it could retard the children's growth, impair
their growth, so making them shorter, And that was obviously
alarming because obviously if it's doing that, if that's if
he's right in that, then what's going on with the
medications interacting with the developing young people that their growth
(04:48):
would be in some way retarded and they would not
be as tall as they otherwise would have been. Yeah, scary, really,
I would say, sow So again, kids with eighty eight
often have other problems. So they noted in the in
the piece here by Joy Pullman, one half of Americans
now take a prescription drug. According to the CDC, often
(05:10):
chronic conditions cluster, which is true of ADHD. Among children
with current ADHD, seventy eight percent had at least one
co occurring disorder, meaning these diagnoses that whether it's adults
or kids get it's usually not the only one. So
it'll be ADHD plus depression, ADHD plus some kind of
(05:32):
anxiety ADHD plus you name it.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, there's I think there's a there's. It's dangerous to
medicalize symptoms like that, so we've talked a lot about
root causes. If you're looking at a behavior that a
child is exhibiting, like their anxiety.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
That's okay. One of the quotes here, doctor Ashley is
they say, far too often teachers, pediatricians, and parents are
quick to medicate away the symptoms rather than deal with
the underlying emotional issues.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Right, that's so true. So you see the symptom, you
have to be careful about labeling that without understanding where
it's coming from. So if a child's afraid of something,
I mean, that's an appropriate response. You know, anxiety is
an appropriate response.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
They say that after responding with anxiety to distressing situation
is not disordered. Yes, it's appropriate exactly. Yeah, And I
think that's one of the things I think we want
to highlight with our listeners. When you're when you're thinking
about going to a pediatrician or a counselor whoever, think
about what's going on in the home, in the in
(06:39):
the young person's life. I always go back to grief
because I think that's one that a lot of people
can understand. But this would be the case if it
was maybe a divorce or some kind of marital struggle.
You know, whether the young person you know loses a mom, dad, brother, sister, grandma, grandpa,
(07:00):
a pet, we would expect some some grief and loss,
and we would expect some kind of impact on the individual.
Same thing if mom and dad are going through marital
strife or a divorce, we would expect some some types
of symptoms that are different. And what couldn't can happen
occasionally is folks can too quickly not see that as
(07:24):
a normal reaction to these, you know, these situations, but
see that as somehow as abnormal and worry to the extent,
and then they end up going in and sometimes unfortunately
doctor Ashley uh, a professional will agree with them and
then start to give them a diagnosis or even medications
in some instances for things that actually were actually quite
(07:47):
normal and quite typical, and the reaction they were having
was very normal given the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I really like that example because grief, I think people
get like, maybe you shouldn't medicate grief because it's a
normal reaction. So it's I know, the same thing that
we're talking about here. These could be symptoms of things
happening in the kid's life, not necessarily something you need
to medicate away.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I agree well, and doctor Ashley, I should say, you
know this is not new to us at the Mental
Health and Recovery Board. So many years ago we started
to fund an ADHD alternative through one of our contract partners,
Apple Seeds. So this will lead us into our three
great programs for this week, and one of those is
(08:29):
just that we were intentional a name and it makes
us again an ADHD program, but it teaches all the alternatives.
So folks would sign up be interested because maybe they're concerned,
either a teacher or the parent is concerned that perhaps
their son or daughter might be struggling with ADHD. They
can talk with apple Seed folks and the program is
(08:51):
not what you necessarily would think A lot of it is.
There's work done with the parents, and there's work done
with the children, and then there's work done together. So
there's a peer component to it, and there's the professionals
basically helping them figure out just what we said, what's
going on in the home, how can we better differentiate
(09:11):
between some of the changes and maybe how those might
be related to some of these more of these sociological
situations rather than anything quote unquote medical. So the whole
idea was to reduce the number of young people that
are on medications because of some of the behaviors that
seem to be concerning to one or more parents.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, I thought it was ironic to the timing of
that when you guys implement I wasn't here in twenty twelve,
but it said in our ANEW report that that program
started in twenty twenty twelve, which is when that articles
talking about from twenty twenty twelve to twenty twenty two,
just that huge increase in prescription for ADHD. So it's
well timed, and it kind.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Of well, you make a good point. Attractually, the boards
started it because right more and more often. We were
hearing about these concerns from parents in schools about everybody
quote unquote everybody's got aasty and we knew that wasn't
the case, but we wanted to take seriously the concerns.
So this was kind of this mechanism. This program was
(10:17):
a way to kind of help differentiate between folks that
are just having behavioral struggles, not because of any quote
unquote diagnoses, but because circumstances. Maybe it's bullying, maybe again
it's lost, maybe it's things going on in the home.
Maybe the youngster's got other legitimate medical issues going on
that might be interfering. Maybe they need glasses, maybe they're
(10:38):
hearings not so, you know, there's all manner of things
that it could be. But we wanted to institute a
program that could help differentiate between everybody just being labeled
and medicated because at that time, back in twenty twelve,
as the article says, and as you just said, it
was starting to increase. And unfortunately, doctor Ashley, as you
can tell from the stats that this article references, it's
(11:01):
continued to grow. Yeah, and one of the biggest trends
and you may have seen this at the College Agent
beyond is you know, all these diagnoses of young people
have ADHD. Guess what happened once they turn eighteen? All
of a sudden, we saw a corresponding spike in wait
for it, doctor Ashley, adult ADHD. So you know, all
(11:22):
these folks they didn't magically just stop, you know, taking
medications once they hit eighteen, but then we had this
just incredible rise. And the article gets at this in
adult ADHD. So this ends up being then, according to
some beliefs, a chronic condition.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well, I mean, there's a lot of research about the
effectiveness of the medication. So if you use a medication
to treat ADHD, it's not necessarily working, right, So those
people are aging into adulthood without getting you know, effective
treatment for what's happening.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, you know, yeah no, So the ADHD program at
Apples this would be one and again this is for youngsters.
We don't have an adult ADHD program, but we would
maybe consider looking at that if there's enough of a
need in the county. But for our young people, you know,
it looks like a series of groups. That's the way
they set it up. So there might be six to
(12:15):
eight groups, and they usually do like three of those
group cycles per year over at apple Seed. We'll link
to all the numbers, but again if folks want the
apple Seed numbers four one, nine, two, eight, one three, seven,
one six. So another program that the board funds, and
this one is through a KADA. We've talked about it
(12:36):
a few times before, doctor Ashley, and we even had
some of the practice practitioners in over the summer. I
guess it was was the prevention K through twelve Prevention
programming through a KADA. Yeah, they're great, they are they
they are primarily in K through I would say nine. Uh,
they don't do maybe as much during the older grades,
(12:58):
but they do some. But what the prevention gals are
doing and I say that because they're all women at
this point and I think we've just recently expanded to four.
They're in all of our school systems here in the county,
and they're really trying to help build skills in our
young people such that using drugs, alcohol, tobacco isn't something
(13:22):
that they turn to, and they develop skills like, you know,
how to have better relationships with their peers, with adults,
how to talk about if they're struggling in any area.
So it's a broad base. The curriculum they use is
too Good for drugs, but it teaches them all kinds
(13:43):
of skills that help prevent not only alcohol, tobacco and
other drugs, but maybe mental health issues, bullying issues, and
even dare I say adhd. Because as they're developing healthier
ways of talking about what's going on with them, like
let's say they're being bully, let's say they're upset with
something going on in the classroom, the more they're able
(14:04):
to talk about that because they've learned that talking about
their emotions and their feelings is actually a good thing,
is a healthy thing, and talking to trusted adults and
forming relationship with trusting adults is a good thing. They
it might prevent more than just alcohol to back on
other drugs.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Absolutely so. I looked up too Good for Drugs just
to see some of the details. So it helps them
develop skills for making healthy choices, building positive friendships, developing
self efficacy, communicating effectively, and resisting peer pressure and influence.
So you can see how those things in itself, those
things can help prevent, yes, substance use, but also a
(14:40):
host of other things.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Right, absolutely so, And again want the audience to know
doctor Ashley about prevention services in Ashley County. The board
has always tried to front load, if you will, we
have very limited funds in the county. We're certainly blessed
with a levy that comes alongside some state and federal
funds that we receive, but we've always we tried to
front load those dollars in the prevention categories. And the
(15:04):
thinking is, then if we can do a good job
with prevention, hopefully we won't need as much of the
dollars being invested in treatment and crisis services. If we're
doing a good enough job with prevention.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I think that's so wise and't such a good thing
to invest in.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Well, I think our board has been committed to that
for going on twenty five years now. So the program
there to KADA, the school based prevention program. Parents really
don't have to do anything per se. They're going to
get that unless they opt out of that or they
tell their teacher at the beginning of the school year
that they don't want their son or daughter receiving those services.
(15:41):
It just happens throughout the course of the year, and
a KATA provides that in the schools they don't have
to go to CATA to receive those services. But if
there are questions that folks have about the program, please
just call a KADA at four one nine two eight
nine seven six seven five. And again, this is the
prevention services that the board funds through CATA, and very
(16:04):
excited about those because you know, it's not just as
we said, alcohol, tobacco and other drugs, it's other situations
like ADHD that can be averted.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, I just want to say before we move off
of that one. Over four thousand youths last year we're
impacted by those prevention services, and Rick said in a
meeting the other day, Rick Ford, the director of AKATA,
He said he anticipates between four and six thousand this year. So,
I mean that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
You know that that's good for folks to hear that.
Are that are listening. Chances are so if you have
a young person in the Ashton County school systems, any
of the districts, that they're going to hopefully benefit by
this program. Yes. Well, last, but not least is again
related to our opening article around ADHD is services the
(16:53):
board funds through Catholic charities and these these services we
call them healthy kids, strong families, and the family resilient
and see program. But they've really blended into one program
and it's pretty much how it sounds. The idea is,
if we can build healthier kids and stronger families and
help build resilience within families, again, the need for psychiatric
(17:16):
medications or diagnoses should go down. The idea being if
our families and our individual young people are more resilient
and they have more tools in their toolbox to deal
with again, whether it's talking about family issues, financial issues,
you know, it could be struggles academically at school, bullying, loss,
(17:41):
all these things. As as this program through Catholic Charities
helps families build skills, abilities and resilience as a family
and as individuals, they're in a better position to avoid,
you know, some of the impacts of life. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
That they consider the parents and the family too, So
it's not like here, this is my kid, they have
the symptom, medicate it, yes, but how can we help
that family and actually get to the root cause of that.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I think that's important and all our programs this idea
of an identified patient being the child, uh, pulling the child,
seeing the child out of the context of the family,
our our contract partners, Kida, Appleseed, Catholic Charities. Uh, they
don't do that, and I appreciate that. That is an
(18:33):
emphasis of ours at the board. You know, whenever you
look at behaviors outside of the context, which is really
what that article is getting at. We just and sometimes
we diagnose symptoms outside of the proper context, and what
can happen is mistakes.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
We misunderstand that.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, so we misunderstand what's really going on. And and
I just ask everybody, whether you're a professional practicing as
a counselor social worker MD, I don't care. I mean
context is king. We say that sometimes in my biblical studies,
but context is always king. So whether we're talking about
(19:14):
symptoms of a young person, symptoms of an old or adult,
or symptoms of middle ages, I don't care what the
age is. What is going on for that individual. Doctor
Ashley and I do quite a bit of suitside prevention
training in this community, and that's a key part of
our training is understanding if somebody is distressed, there's a
reason for that distress. We don't want to start leaping
(19:36):
to conclusions, but we know that there's It could be
something financial, it could be social, it could be you
name it medical, but there are there are reasons why
folks are maybe acting the way they are.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, And if we are just treating symptoms, we're probably
missing what's really happening and we're not going to be
effective in helping, which is the goal.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Right. We are in a trauma informed system here Ashley County,
and part of that is asking again, uh, not not
what's wrong with you, but you know, tell me, you
know what's happened to you, what's happening to you right now? What?
Tell me more about your story? Uh. And when people
start to tell about their story, which is just a
fancy way of saying what's going on, tell me the context,
(20:20):
tell me more about what's going on right now. And
we when we insist on learning that. I think you're right, doctor,
doctor Ashley, we have a much better chance of getting
to what's really happening and avoiding misdiagnosis, treatments that aren't effective.
And as the article says, there could be some real harms.
(20:41):
There's some additional challenges when somebody takes amphetamines for long
periods of time, there's some heart issues, there's some other
issues that are related to that. So we just don't
want to go down paths that we don't need to
be going down because sometimes there are impacts and getting
off of some of these substances as easy, and we've
talked about that or another podcast. You do a lot
(21:02):
of damage. Yeah, well, so there you are. There's the
article by by Joy Pullman, and then there is the
three great programs that the board funds. UH at the
Mental Health and Recovery Board, we will we will have
links to all of these things. The Catholic Charities number
is for one nine two eight nine one nine zero three.
If you have questions about their Healthy Kids, Strong Families
(21:25):
or family Resiliency program, you can always reach out to them.
The folks Cheryl Villiegis and her staff are wonderful. UH.
We will have all this in the episode description Doctor
Ashley and just encourage folks to just ask questions. And
you know, it's okay to ask questions of your your doctor,
(21:45):
you're pediatrician, of your school, people of people that work
in our system at Apple, cy Dedicaid and Catholic Charities,
and it's even okay to ask questions of your local
mental health and Recovery Board. In fact, people ask us
questions all the time, doctor, and we love it.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yes, we do, absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Thank you again, Doctor Ashley for another great episode, and
we'll be back soon with more information for our Ashland
County community.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yes, thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Keeping
Ashland Healthy podcast. The podcast is a production of the
Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio. You
can reach the Board by calling four one nine two
eight one three one three nine. Please remember that the
Board funds a local twenty four to seven crisis line
through Applese Community Mental Health Center. It can be reached
by calling four one nine two eight nine sixty one
(22:33):
one one. That's four one nine two eight nine sixty
one one one. Until next time, Please join us in
keeping Ashland Healthy.
Well, good morning, doctor Ashley. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm doing great. How are you this morning?
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I'm doing well. This is another exciting episode of the
Keeping Ashland Healthy podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yes, it really is.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We have got a news article that is really it's
starting to break everywhere doctors give kids ADHD drugs for
adults convenience. This is by Joy Pullman and she's writing
the article based on this upcoming piece that again not
everybody maybe has access to because it's behind a paywall,
(00:34):
so it's been referenced a few radio stations. I listen
to some podcasts I listen to news podcasts are talking
about this, this piece. It's getting a lot of I
think the controversial title and just the issue. I think
all of us know, whether it's an adult or a
young person that might be struggling or been diagnosed with ADHD.
(00:58):
It's just it's it's it's just so prevalent and so commonplace.
I think that's why there's such interest in it.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, that's interesting. I was actually surprised to see that
it was on such a big, big news article, you know,
because we talk about this stuff all the time, but
for it to be in New York Times like, that's
pretty cool, right.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So Paul Tough t O U. G. H. Is the
one that's going to be doing the article in New
York Magazine, but Joy Pullman is the author that we're
going to be quoting and reading from, who is again
talking about the Paul Tough article. One of the things
she starts out by saying is just the scale of
the issue. Nearly a quarter of seventeen year old American
(01:39):
boys have a diagnosis of ADHD, and that's more than
triple than what it was in the mid nineties. So
we've seen a rise. I think particularly this came out
during the pandemic, when I think there were even shortages
of some of the medications that are used to help
folks that are struggling with ADHD. But one of the
(02:01):
quotes that got me was a quote. From twenty twelve
to twenty twenty two, the total number of prescriptions for
stimulants to treat ADHD increased in the United States by
fifty eight percent ten years.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Fifty eight percent. Yeah, that's astonishing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
In twenty twelve, Americans in their thirties in their thirties
were issued five million prescriptions for stimulants to treat ADHD.
A decade later, that figure had more than tripled, rising
to eighteen million prescriptions for stimulants. So and again if
the audience, if you don't know, you know stimulants are
(02:38):
the primary psychiatric or medical intervention to assist those they're struggling.
But the trouble is is, as we've talked on other podcasts,
the ADHD diagnosis, like all other psychiatric diagnosis, are not
based on a brain scan or some kind of blood draw.
(02:58):
These are symptoms of what we call clusters of symptoms.
In our diagnostic process. In our DSM Diagnostic and Statistical
Manual is set up that way, so we look for
clusters of symptoms that cause, you know, more or less
impairment in the person's what we call daily functioning, and
(03:20):
that's primarily how we diagnose symptom clusters. And again that
for maybe some of the audience, they don't know. They
I think there might be a scan, there might be
some kind of measuring of chemicals in the body like that,
and there's nothing like that. So that's always a challenge
(03:41):
because when we see these kind of increases in so
called diagnosis zs, we wonder how much of this is
really something that's real biological versus something that might be
psychological or sociological or some combination of the two. So
in his article supposedly goes on to talk about some
(04:03):
of the negative effects of the amphetamines, particularly riddling and
some of these other apfetamines, and he looks at a
lot of the studies and says, you know, there's really
not a lot of difference between young people with the
diagnosis that are medicated versus not medicated in terms of learning,
ability to learn, et cetera. But he did note that
(04:24):
the studies seemed to indicate that a lot of folks
on the riddling it could retard the children's growth, impair
their growth, so making them shorter, And that was obviously
alarming because obviously if it's doing that, if that's if
he's right in that, then what's going on with the
medications interacting with the developing young people that their growth
(04:48):
would be in some way retarded and they would not
be as tall as they otherwise would have been. Yeah, scary, really,
I would say, sow So again, kids with eighty eight
often have other problems. So they noted in the in
the piece here by Joy Pullman, one half of Americans
now take a prescription drug. According to the CDC, often
(05:10):
chronic conditions cluster, which is true of ADHD. Among children
with current ADHD, seventy eight percent had at least one
co occurring disorder, meaning these diagnoses that whether it's adults
or kids get it's usually not the only one. So
it'll be ADHD plus depression, ADHD plus some kind of
(05:32):
anxiety ADHD plus you name it.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, there's I think there's a there's. It's dangerous to
medicalize symptoms like that, so we've talked a lot about
root causes. If you're looking at a behavior that a
child is exhibiting, like their anxiety.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
That's okay. One of the quotes here, doctor Ashley is
they say, far too often teachers, pediatricians, and parents are
quick to medicate away the symptoms rather than deal with
the underlying emotional issues.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Right, that's so true. So you see the symptom, you
have to be careful about labeling that without understanding where
it's coming from. So if a child's afraid of something,
I mean, that's an appropriate response. You know, anxiety is
an appropriate response.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
They say that after responding with anxiety to distressing situation
is not disordered. Yes, it's appropriate exactly. Yeah, And I
think that's one of the things I think we want
to highlight with our listeners. When you're when you're thinking
about going to a pediatrician or a counselor whoever, think
about what's going on in the home, in the in
(06:39):
the young person's life. I always go back to grief
because I think that's one that a lot of people
can understand. But this would be the case if it
was maybe a divorce or some kind of marital struggle.
You know, whether the young person you know loses a mom, dad, brother, sister, grandma, grandpa,
(07:00):
a pet, we would expect some some grief and loss,
and we would expect some kind of impact on the individual.
Same thing if mom and dad are going through marital
strife or a divorce, we would expect some some types
of symptoms that are different. And what couldn't can happen
occasionally is folks can too quickly not see that as
(07:24):
a normal reaction to these, you know, these situations, but
see that as somehow as abnormal and worry to the extent,
and then they end up going in and sometimes unfortunately
doctor Ashley uh, a professional will agree with them and
then start to give them a diagnosis or even medications
in some instances for things that actually were actually quite
(07:47):
normal and quite typical, and the reaction they were having
was very normal given the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I really like that example because grief, I think people
get like, maybe you shouldn't medicate grief because it's a
normal reaction. So it's I know, the same thing that
we're talking about here. These could be symptoms of things
happening in the kid's life, not necessarily something you need
to medicate away.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I agree well, and doctor Ashley, I should say, you
know this is not new to us at the Mental
Health and Recovery Board. So many years ago we started
to fund an ADHD alternative through one of our contract partners,
Apple Seeds. So this will lead us into our three
great programs for this week, and one of those is
(08:29):
just that we were intentional a name and it makes
us again an ADHD program, but it teaches all the alternatives.
So folks would sign up be interested because maybe they're concerned,
either a teacher or the parent is concerned that perhaps
their son or daughter might be struggling with ADHD. They
can talk with apple Seed folks and the program is
(08:51):
not what you necessarily would think A lot of it is.
There's work done with the parents, and there's work done
with the children, and then there's work done together. So
there's a peer component to it, and there's the professionals
basically helping them figure out just what we said, what's
going on in the home, how can we better differentiate
(09:11):
between some of the changes and maybe how those might
be related to some of these more of these sociological
situations rather than anything quote unquote medical. So the whole
idea was to reduce the number of young people that
are on medications because of some of the behaviors that
seem to be concerning to one or more parents.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, I thought it was ironic to the timing of
that when you guys implement I wasn't here in twenty twelve,
but it said in our ANEW report that that program
started in twenty twenty twelve, which is when that articles
talking about from twenty twenty twelve to twenty twenty two,
just that huge increase in prescription for ADHD. So it's
well timed, and it kind.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Of well, you make a good point. Attractually, the boards
started it because right more and more often. We were
hearing about these concerns from parents in schools about everybody
quote unquote everybody's got aasty and we knew that wasn't
the case, but we wanted to take seriously the concerns.
So this was kind of this mechanism. This program was
(10:17):
a way to kind of help differentiate between folks that
are just having behavioral struggles, not because of any quote
unquote diagnoses, but because circumstances. Maybe it's bullying, maybe again
it's lost, maybe it's things going on in the home.
Maybe the youngster's got other legitimate medical issues going on
that might be interfering. Maybe they need glasses, maybe they're
(10:38):
hearings not so, you know, there's all manner of things
that it could be. But we wanted to institute a
program that could help differentiate between everybody just being labeled
and medicated because at that time, back in twenty twelve,
as the article says, and as you just said, it
was starting to increase. And unfortunately, doctor Ashley, as you
can tell from the stats that this article references, it's
(11:01):
continued to grow. Yeah, and one of the biggest trends
and you may have seen this at the College Agent
beyond is you know, all these diagnoses of young people
have ADHD. Guess what happened once they turn eighteen? All
of a sudden, we saw a corresponding spike in wait
for it, doctor Ashley, adult ADHD. So you know, all
(11:22):
these folks they didn't magically just stop, you know, taking
medications once they hit eighteen, but then we had this
just incredible rise. And the article gets at this in
adult ADHD. So this ends up being then, according to
some beliefs, a chronic condition.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well, I mean, there's a lot of research about the
effectiveness of the medication. So if you use a medication
to treat ADHD, it's not necessarily working, right, So those
people are aging into adulthood without getting you know, effective
treatment for what's happening.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, you know, yeah no, So the ADHD program at
Apples this would be one and again this is for youngsters.
We don't have an adult ADHD program, but we would
maybe consider looking at that if there's enough of a
need in the county. But for our young people, you know,
it looks like a series of groups. That's the way
they set it up. So there might be six to
(12:15):
eight groups, and they usually do like three of those
group cycles per year over at apple Seed. We'll link
to all the numbers, but again if folks want the
apple Seed numbers four one, nine, two, eight, one three, seven,
one six. So another program that the board funds, and
this one is through a KADA. We've talked about it
(12:36):
a few times before, doctor Ashley, and we even had
some of the practice practitioners in over the summer. I
guess it was was the prevention K through twelve Prevention
programming through a KADA. Yeah, they're great, they are they
they are primarily in K through I would say nine. Uh,
they don't do maybe as much during the older grades,
(12:58):
but they do some. But what the prevention gals are
doing and I say that because they're all women at
this point and I think we've just recently expanded to four.
They're in all of our school systems here in the county,
and they're really trying to help build skills in our
young people such that using drugs, alcohol, tobacco isn't something
(13:22):
that they turn to, and they develop skills like, you know,
how to have better relationships with their peers, with adults,
how to talk about if they're struggling in any area.
So it's a broad base. The curriculum they use is
too Good for drugs, but it teaches them all kinds
(13:43):
of skills that help prevent not only alcohol, tobacco and
other drugs, but maybe mental health issues, bullying issues, and
even dare I say adhd. Because as they're developing healthier
ways of talking about what's going on with them, like
let's say they're being bully, let's say they're upset with
something going on in the classroom, the more they're able
(14:04):
to talk about that because they've learned that talking about
their emotions and their feelings is actually a good thing,
is a healthy thing, and talking to trusted adults and
forming relationship with trusting adults is a good thing. They
it might prevent more than just alcohol to back on
other drugs.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Absolutely so. I looked up too Good for Drugs just
to see some of the details. So it helps them
develop skills for making healthy choices, building positive friendships, developing
self efficacy, communicating effectively, and resisting peer pressure and influence.
So you can see how those things in itself, those
things can help prevent, yes, substance use, but also a
(14:40):
host of other things.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Right, absolutely so, And again want the audience to know
doctor Ashley about prevention services in Ashley County. The board
has always tried to front load, if you will, we
have very limited funds in the county. We're certainly blessed
with a levy that comes alongside some state and federal
funds that we receive, but we've always we tried to
front load those dollars in the prevention categories. And the
(15:04):
thinking is, then if we can do a good job
with prevention, hopefully we won't need as much of the
dollars being invested in treatment and crisis services. If we're
doing a good enough job with prevention.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I think that's so wise and't such a good thing
to invest in.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Well, I think our board has been committed to that
for going on twenty five years now. So the program
there to KADA, the school based prevention program. Parents really
don't have to do anything per se. They're going to
get that unless they opt out of that or they
tell their teacher at the beginning of the school year
that they don't want their son or daughter receiving those services.
(15:41):
It just happens throughout the course of the year, and
a KATA provides that in the schools they don't have
to go to CATA to receive those services. But if
there are questions that folks have about the program, please
just call a KADA at four one nine two eight
nine seven six seven five. And again, this is the
prevention services that the board funds through CATA, and very
(16:04):
excited about those because you know, it's not just as
we said, alcohol, tobacco and other drugs, it's other situations
like ADHD that can be averted.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, I just want to say before we move off
of that one. Over four thousand youths last year we're
impacted by those prevention services, and Rick said in a
meeting the other day, Rick Ford, the director of AKATA,
He said he anticipates between four and six thousand this year. So,
I mean that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
You know that that's good for folks to hear that.
Are that are listening. Chances are so if you have
a young person in the Ashton County school systems, any
of the districts, that they're going to hopefully benefit by
this program. Yes. Well, last, but not least is again
related to our opening article around ADHD is services the
(16:53):
board funds through Catholic charities and these these services we
call them healthy kids, strong families, and the family resilient
and see program. But they've really blended into one program
and it's pretty much how it sounds. The idea is,
if we can build healthier kids and stronger families and
help build resilience within families, again, the need for psychiatric
(17:16):
medications or diagnoses should go down. The idea being if
our families and our individual young people are more resilient
and they have more tools in their toolbox to deal
with again, whether it's talking about family issues, financial issues,
you know, it could be struggles academically at school, bullying, loss,
(17:41):
all these things. As as this program through Catholic Charities
helps families build skills, abilities and resilience as a family
and as individuals, they're in a better position to avoid,
you know, some of the impacts of life. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
That they consider the parents and the family too, So
it's not like here, this is my kid, they have
the symptom, medicate it, yes, but how can we help
that family and actually get to the root cause of that.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I think that's important and all our programs this idea
of an identified patient being the child, uh, pulling the child,
seeing the child out of the context of the family,
our our contract partners, Kida, Appleseed, Catholic Charities. Uh, they
don't do that, and I appreciate that. That is an
(18:33):
emphasis of ours at the board. You know, whenever you
look at behaviors outside of the context, which is really
what that article is getting at. We just and sometimes
we diagnose symptoms outside of the proper context, and what
can happen is mistakes.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
We misunderstand that.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, so we misunderstand what's really going on. And and
I just ask everybody, whether you're a professional practicing as
a counselor social worker MD, I don't care. I mean
context is king. We say that sometimes in my biblical studies,
but context is always king. So whether we're talking about
(19:14):
symptoms of a young person, symptoms of an old or adult,
or symptoms of middle ages, I don't care what the
age is. What is going on for that individual. Doctor
Ashley and I do quite a bit of suitside prevention
training in this community, and that's a key part of
our training is understanding if somebody is distressed, there's a
reason for that distress. We don't want to start leaping
(19:36):
to conclusions, but we know that there's It could be
something financial, it could be social, it could be you
name it medical, but there are there are reasons why
folks are maybe acting the way they are.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, And if we are just treating symptoms, we're probably
missing what's really happening and we're not going to be
effective in helping, which is the goal.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Right. We are in a trauma informed system here Ashley County,
and part of that is asking again, uh, not not
what's wrong with you, but you know, tell me, you
know what's happened to you, what's happening to you right now? What?
Tell me more about your story? Uh. And when people
start to tell about their story, which is just a
fancy way of saying what's going on, tell me the context,
(20:20):
tell me more about what's going on right now. And
we when we insist on learning that. I think you're right, doctor,
doctor Ashley, we have a much better chance of getting
to what's really happening and avoiding misdiagnosis, treatments that aren't effective.
And as the article says, there could be some real harms.
(20:41):
There's some additional challenges when somebody takes amphetamines for long
periods of time, there's some heart issues, there's some other
issues that are related to that. So we just don't
want to go down paths that we don't need to
be going down because sometimes there are impacts and getting
off of some of these substances as easy, and we've
talked about that or another podcast. You do a lot
(21:02):
of damage. Yeah, well, so there you are. There's the
article by by Joy Pullman, and then there is the
three great programs that the board funds. UH at the
Mental Health and Recovery Board, we will we will have
links to all of these things. The Catholic Charities number
is for one nine two eight nine one nine zero three.
If you have questions about their Healthy Kids, Strong Families
(21:25):
or family Resiliency program, you can always reach out to them.
The folks Cheryl Villiegis and her staff are wonderful. UH.
We will have all this in the episode description Doctor
Ashley and just encourage folks to just ask questions. And
you know, it's okay to ask questions of your your doctor,
(21:45):
you're pediatrician, of your school, people of people that work
in our system at Apple, cy Dedicaid and Catholic Charities,
and it's even okay to ask questions of your local
mental health and Recovery Board. In fact, people ask us
questions all the time, doctor, and we love it.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yes, we do, absolutely well.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Thank you again, Doctor Ashley for another great episode, and
we'll be back soon with more information for our Ashland
County community.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yes, thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Thank you for listening to another episode of the Keeping
Ashland Healthy podcast. The podcast is a production of the
Mental Health and Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio. You
can reach the Board by calling four one nine two
eight one three one three nine. Please remember that the
Board funds a local twenty four to seven crisis line
through Applese Community Mental Health Center. It can be reached
by calling four one nine two eight nine sixty one
(22:33):
one one. That's four one nine two eight nine sixty
one one one. Until next time, Please join us in
keeping Ashland Healthy.
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