May 20, 2025 • 24 mins
In this episode of Keeping Ashland Healthy, Dr. Ashley returns from a well-deserved vacation and shares a quick update with "the Boss" before diving into a meaningful discussion about clinical services in Ashland County.
Together, they explore the full range of services offered by the Mental Health and Recovery Board's contract partners—including assessments, counseling, case management, and more. They highlight how each service is vital in supporting mental wellness across the community.
The episode wraps with an important reminder: finding the right "fit" between individuals seeking help and the professionals providing it can make all the difference in the recovery journey.
Learn more about local clinical services at www.ashlandmhrb.org or by calling the Board at 419.281.3139.
(Record Date: May 15, 2025)
Together, they explore the full range of services offered by the Mental Health and Recovery Board's contract partners—including assessments, counseling, case management, and more. They highlight how each service is vital in supporting mental wellness across the community.
The episode wraps with an important reminder: finding the right "fit" between individuals seeking help and the professionals providing it can make all the difference in the recovery journey.
Learn more about local clinical services at www.ashlandmhrb.org or by calling the Board at 419.281.3139.
(Record Date: May 15, 2025)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome. You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a
podcast production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of
Ashland County, Ohio. Thanks for joining us, and welcome back
to another episode. In the studio with me is doctor
Ashley Ackerman. Welcome back, Doctor Ashley.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thank you. How are you this morning?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm doing okay. We we were, we were worried about you.
You know, I told the audience last recording, enlisted Super
Sandy to help me out with the episode. Explain to
the audience that you were playing hooky, you're on vacation.
It's not true listening to to to music that was,
(00:42):
you know, very hard driving, full of lyrics, energetic, right lyrics.
I could not readily understand. Oh but anyway, I'm glad
you're back, Glad you had a good time. Thank you,
uh and audience, we are glad to talk to you. Uh.
In today's episodes about you know, our three agencies, Apple Seed,
(01:02):
Catholic Charities and CATA. We've been going through three great programs,
doctor Ashley for the last few times, but we wanted
to talk about a program or programs that all of
our agencies shared to some extent, which are clinical services
at our agencies. And what I mean by that is
(01:22):
the services like counseling, an assessment, and case management and
psychiatric services. So I would say when people think about
our agencies, this is probably the kinds of services and
programs they think of most.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Probably.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, so you know you go to apple Seed, Catholic
Charities are Kada because you need an assessment and you
need counseling. So but I have found doctor Ashley over
the years, you and I are both counselors. We've done
all the things we're going to talk about. But I
don't think most people have a good idea of what
actually we mean by these services.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
That's fair, I would say, probably not.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So I thought it would make sense to just unpack
the services where they're at. And like I said, sometimes
all three of our agencies offer these services. Sometimes they're
special to a particular agency, and when that's the case,
we'll point that out. But maybe start by saying the
most common first step for folks. And I say this
(02:20):
because our goal is for folks that need help. We
want to make that easy for folks to access and understand.
I just really am a strong believer. Maybe it's because
my own issues doctor Ashley. But in form consent is
really important to me. And what I mean by that
audience is, you know, before you go somewhere, you should
have a good idea what's going to happen. I get
(02:40):
anxious when I walk into a situation that's new and
I've got no clue what's going to happen. Some people
find that stimulating, exhilarating. I do not know, thanks saying
I want a rough idea about what is going to happen.
So one of the first things that happens when you
go to a Kaida, Catholic Charities or Apple seat is
(03:01):
an assessment. Now that sounds maybe intimidating to people, and
we're going to try to use, you know, just common terms.
What we mean by that is the person, usually one
person will talk with you, and I encourage people to
bring your loved one or your support person because they're
(03:22):
going to be asking you about what's going on in
your life that has caused you to get to the
point where you feel like you need help. So maybe
you've tried family, friends, church, other support people in the community.
But whatever you're struggling with, whether that's feeling down or blue,
(03:44):
or anxious or you name it, whatever's going on has
reached a point where you feel like everything you've been
trying hasn't worked or and what I mean by that,
you're not feeling the way you want to feel. Right,
So the assessor is trying to determine, just like with
a medical point, what's going on, you know, get to
(04:04):
know you a little bit, but figure out what's going
on when it started, when things got to a point
where you know, you were really upset or it was
really interfering with your ability to work or raise a family,
et cetera. So they're going to ask a series of
questions and for the most part, the forms that they
use to guide them through that process or standardize. Yeah,
(04:26):
and that's just a fancy word meaning everybody kind of
gets the same questions because these are questions that generally speaking,
help the assessor figure out what's going on. Yeah, So
they're listening I think doctor Ashley for certain words, phrases,
situations to help give them an idea. So, just like
when you go to a physical doctor, you know, are
(04:47):
you talking about your foot, your head, your arm, your shoulder,
your heart, you're breathing. So they're trying to narrow down
to some extent what might be going on. So the
questions you're going to be asked are very similar to
when you go to see your your general practitioner. You know,
does it hurt here? Does it hurt here? Right, So
they're going to ask you questions that really are along
(05:08):
those lines. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I think the word assessment can be intimidating. If you
just think assess the situation. I think that's a good
way of thinking about it. They're trying to understand if
they don't have all that information, how can they help, right,
So it's an important step.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yep. So my encouragement to you all that our seeking
services is to be as honest, blunt as possible, as
clear as you possibly can be to the questions that
are asked to you, because that helps the person get
a better understanding and quicker. The quicker you can be
honest and frank and open and clear with what's going on.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, I like what you said to you about bringing
a loved one if you want, if there's someone you
trust of course, right, and someone you're close to you,
because there are a lot of questions that can be
kind of overwhelming and sometimes you kind of forget things
too they're asking a lot of questions, so that can
help sometimes if someone's there to support you and agreed.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
So the whole purpose though, of an assessment is for
the individual and then the organization to figure out is
this the best place can we help you? Right? I've
been to doctors before where after going through the assessment,
they said, oh, I'm going to refer you to a specialist, right,
because what you're describing isn't something I can help you with.
(06:23):
So keep that in mind. I think sometimes people feel
like if I go to one of these agencies, they
should be able to help me with anything I say.
And that may not be the case. It might require
a referral, or maybe they can help you with some
of it but not all of it. But that's what
they're trying to determine. And if I would just say,
if it's an agency says they can't, then I mean,
(06:46):
try not to be too disappointed. I understand some folks
may be disappointed, but they I mean, you don't want
them to try to help you if they really don't
feel like they have the abilities of the school, the tools,
the skills, etc.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
To do so they should not be trying to do
something beyond their practice.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So yeah, when I get referred off to a specialist,
you know, yeah, I understand it's an extra appointment. I
have to tell my story over again. So that's a
little annoying, but yeah, I sometimes feel better too knowing
that whoever they're sending me to this is what they're
good at.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Absolutely, so yeah, so just keep.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
That in mind. So the whole point, though, of an
assessment is to determine that, and then the next step
usually is to refer you to additional services. So I
would say that formal assessment usually only happens once, maybe
twice when you go to an agency. Yeah, and then
they refer you on to what we call ongoing clinical services,
(07:38):
and a lot of times that's counseling, and that could
be done either individually or in a group format.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Usually it's individual.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. So this is I think what most people think
of when they think of our agencies and what they've
seen on TV and you know in sitcoms and other
things where somebody comes in and they talk to a
counselor talk the talk therapy. So this is the maybe
the heart of our agencies is the talk therapy and
(08:07):
the rationale the science if you will behind talk. Therapy
is by your counselor listening to what's going on and
based on their specialized training, their knowledge, their experiences, they're
supposed to walk beside you, offer you suggestions, tools, resources,
Listen first and foremost, but in addition to listening and
(08:30):
better understanding what's going on for you to hopefully offer
you help in a variety of different ways that might
help you achieve the goals that you're there for.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I love that. Yeah. And the counseling relationship. We talk
about that a lot. That's very, very important. I think
it's more important.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Why does relationship matter?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Well, she does? It does? Human connection? Right? A lot
of times that's what we need when we're suffering. We
need support, we need connection, and a counselor is a
form of that.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, So somebody who understands, somebody that you feel like
can connect to you because you might be going through
one of the more difficult times in your life. So
somebody that can connect to you and that you feel
connected to. And I think you hit on something there,
doctor Ashley wanted to cover. So you know, I, as
(09:23):
a counselor before I did my best to try to
connect as best as I knew how with everybody I saw.
But guess what, Doctor Ashley.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Not everyone connected with you.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Can you believe that some people did not care for me?
So one of the things I told them from the
very get go, I thought, So I told them, Doctor Ashley,
is if you know, give me a couple of sessions.
If it doesn't seem like we're connecting, please tell me
that and I will refer you to somebody else, because, yes,
let's face it, sometimes it's a gender thing, sometimes it's
(09:52):
an age thing, sometimes it's an experienced thing. Right. So
I remember seeing older, an older adult who just said
you just you're too young, right, And quite frankly, I
don't feel equipped to counsel women, or particularly mothers, And
they say how many kids have you had? And I
(10:13):
have to say none. So again that I say that
to the audience, to say, all of our agencies know this.
We all operate this way. It's our responsibility to get
you to somebody at that agency that you feel connected to,
because until that relationship gets set, counseling can't really be
(10:34):
that effective. I'm not saying it won't be effective at all,
but it's certainly not going to be as effective as
it can be. If you're not with a counselor that
you trust, feel like you're connecting with, you have a
relationship with, so we want you to have that, So
don't be afraid, don't be hesitant, give the person a
few times. But if you really feel like, man, we
are just not connected and I just don't see myself
(10:56):
talking to you about my deepest darkets I need as
somebody else, who else here at the agency? Can you recommend?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Absolutely? Think of it like when you go to a
primary care doctor, family doctor. If you're not syncing with them,
it's not working, you will go look for another doctor.
But for some reason, people think about counseling differently. I
think it's like they're afraid to defend the counselor or something.
But really we know that as counselors, we know that
not everyone is going to vibe the same and we
(11:24):
encourage people to advocate for a different counselor if they
need it, even if it means not seeing us.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
That's right, Yeah, well said I will say, Yeah, don't
feel bad because there are plenty of folks that are
seeking services. So yeah, if I don't click with somebody,
somebody else will be you know, scheduled with me, so
it's okay, you're not going to hurt our feelings a stuff,
Ashley said. We understand this is part of the work
we do. So another service that is very common in
our system is something called case management. Now there's fancier terms,
(11:52):
you know, for case management, but essentially a case manager
isn't a counselor, but they do help the person achieve
their goal. Oftentimes they were more involved with the day
to day practical stuff that the person might be struggling with.
It could be housing, transportation, food, it could be accessing services,
but it could be not knowing some of the resources
(12:14):
in town. We always talk about our parks and I
always like case management because you can be a little
bit more experientially. You can be out with the person.
Doesn't have to be as office based. Counseling tends to
be more office based. Case management doesn't have to be.
So the person maybe is in the home, out with
the person in public at various places where it makes sense.
(12:36):
You're actually, oh, this is a kind of a loaded term,
but you're doing life with the person. You're actually walking
beside them literally helping them with some of the skills
and the tools that would be helpful to them reaching
their goals.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah. I always really like that as a counselor, so
my clients would see case managers and they would actually
be practicing the things we're talking about counseling but in
real life. So I think that's an important opponent too.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, so it's important to know all of our agencies
do assessment, all of our agencies do counseling, all of
our agencies to do case management, and again that could
be done individually or in a group. Now, this next
service is called crisis. We've talked to it specifically on
the podcast before, so I won't go too deep into it,
except that it is very important because it is twenty
(13:21):
four to seven. Apple Seed's twenty four seven crisis Line
is the primary mechanism that folks utilize when they're in crisis.
But I don't want to forget about a CATA because
there are substance use specialists of our three agencies, and
I always recommend if folks are really experiencing a substance
use crisis, they can contact the twenty four seven crisis line,
(13:46):
or if it's during normal business hours, just contact Rick
Over at a CATA because Rick knows the substance use
agencies like for withdrawal management, detox or residential, certain regional
funds that exist or funding that exists to get into
those because they're very expensive. So and he knows which
(14:07):
ones are of higher quality and lower quality and what
their availability is. So I always tell folks, don't do
crisis on your own. If you're experiencing a crisis, you
or a family or loved one, call the twenty four
to seven number. We talk about that at the in
the podcast and the opening and the closing, but it's
the four one nine two eight nine six one four seven.
(14:28):
So crisis services primarily through apple Seed, but also through
a CATA.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, absolutely, I feel like, so if you are struggling
with mental health related things, relational things, substance use, those
are if you're struggling and you're overwhelmed, that's when you
should call that line, right, we need some support yep.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
And sometimes people call for information and education and resources. Ye,
that is fine too. But now this next service, psychiatric
and nursing services. Now that's a little unique to Appleseed.
I wouldn't say or other agencies do that not you know,
most longtime listeners to the Keeping National and Healthy podcasts
know that the board's not huge pushers of psychiatric medications.
(15:10):
But we're not against them entirely, but we just think
that they really need to be thoughtful. How are they
really going to be helpful to the person achieving the
goals that they have, and you know, for how long
doses being you know, if they're going to be used
shortest time, minimal doses what we call medication optimization principles.
But psychiatric services does involve you know, a psychiatrist at
(15:32):
Apple Seed. They've got a couple on staff and they
will add I like to think of it as we
talk about medication assisted treatment. I apply that to the
world of substance use as well as mental health. So audience,
think of it this way. If psychiatric medications are utilized,
think of them as assisting your treatment, because we do
(15:55):
not like to see medications as a treatment in and
of themselves. So again it's a crude way to say it,
but a pill's not going to make your relationship skills
get better.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yes, it took the words right from my mouth. Actually
I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yes, Yeah, medications don't help you, you know, be a
better employee, per se or a better student. They may
help with some of the symptoms in the short term,
but there are still skills. There are things going on
beyond the symptoms that you might be experiencing that still
need to be discussed with the counselor.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah. So not. You can't just take a pill and
fix everything, right, So I like that medicine in addition
to the treatment the counseling, that's important.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, But the treatment is the counseling, it's the case management,
it's not the pill. But the pill might make that
easier or more likely to be successful. But I would
you know again, inform yourself. There's plenty of places to
inform yourself about the psychiatric medications the effects of those
taking those. Yeah, so just be very very I think
(17:00):
careful and thoughtful before starting those and have that discussion
with your team. That's something we haven't really talked about.
If somebody gets an assessment and then they start seeing
a counselor maybe they also have a case manager, basically
they have a team, and it's okay to have what
we call a dunta or a team meeting. Yeah, And
a team meeting is basically you meeting with everybody that's
(17:23):
part of your team there at the agency. Those can
be helpful to say, I feel like I'm stuck. You know,
we're doing this, we're doing that, but I still feel
stuck when it comes to my goals. What can we
do differently as a team.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, sometimes the counselor or a case manager will want that.
Sometimes the client wants that, and that either way is fine.
So psychiatric nursing services, as far as our three agencies,
that's primarily focused just at Appleseed. Another kind of specialized
service that folks might be referred to would be peer
support services, and that's primarily at a CADE and Catholic charities.
(18:02):
And I just want to talk through that with you actually,
because that's newer. We haven't always had peer support services.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, there's a lot more peer supporters now right.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Ohio is really big on this. They've been they've been
promoting it trainings in the certification. A lot of our
audience might be familiar with Pathways. That is a peer
recovery center that has peer recovery workers at it. I
know that's something that they want to grow. They're in
the process of doing that. Folks come there, and the
(18:32):
whole idea is it's kind of like what it sounds.
You know, some people benefit by the counselor case manager,
but sometimes if you add a peer person, somebody who's
been through similar life experiences that's been trained to help folks,
again similar to case management, not exactly the same, but
it's really leveraging their experiences as somebody has gone through
(18:53):
similar things. So the thinking is, you know, if you've
gone through similar things successfully, might be able to give
back and help support somebody that might be going through
things that are similar to what you were able to overcome.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, I think it's just a different level of understanding.
If someone's gone through it, they have something different to offer.
And also they're modeling, you know, their own success story.
They've gone through it, they've navigated whatever the issue is,
and they can help someone else get through too. So
peer supports unique.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah. So at a KATA, you know, for example, the
peer supporter Laurie, she works with individuals primarily in a
Kada's recovery housing. And again Laurie's been in recovery successfully
for years and she's able to help folks that are
at an earlier stage in their recovery and helps them
with individual things, group things, practical things, you name it.
(19:43):
Laurie again leverages her success and her story to help
others and everybody that works with Laurie I think loves
her is great and similar at Catholic charities with Pathways programs,
those peers are working really hard with the participants down
there to say listen, you know it might seem difficult, challenging,
but you know I was there. You know I had
(20:04):
a very similar experience. This is what helped me. Maybe
it'll help you.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah. And those again connections are really important, just having
the connect to those people when you need some help. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Well, a question that people might have that I wanted
to talk about before we start to wrap up is
how long does this counseling stuff take? Doctor Ashley? Is
it years and years and years?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I'm just going to say it shouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh, it shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It should not be.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, what should folks expect?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I so maybe you take the lead on this. What
should they expect? I don't think it's a lifelong process, right?
You should? You should be goal oriented, working towards your goals,
and however long that takes you personally to achieve that.
But we don't want people and counseling forever.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, I agree, it's there's going to be some variableness
because we're all different as human beings. Right, But I
think you're you're wise and saying from the get go,
Ashley the doctor, Ashley's you don't have to call me doctor.
Sorry on the programmed we have to. So but you
when you start this, either you were a loved one
doctor actually is right. I mean, this is not a
(21:10):
forever relationship. It's an important relationship. But you should have
clear goals that you're trying to attain, and you need
to be clear. Both you and your team need to
be clear, like if these things are happening or not happening,
that means I've reached my goal, so very specific. Sometimes
they call them smart goals, smart, achievable, realistic your ties. Well,
(21:32):
so the goals need to be really specific so that
everybody knows, like if this happens, then I think I'm
good to go, doc.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So, and I think it does vary, but you're right.
If things are not getting better within three to six months,
maybe course correct things should start to happen some noticeable
changes should start to happen. I say that because I
don't want the audience, because I know a lot of
people have watched a lot of bad TV and bad sitcoms.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
There are a lot of things out there.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, and you know, and again, and to be perfectly honest,
there are profession isn't always as effective as it is
and it almost, you know, depending on where you go.
I'm not talking about our three agencies now, but some
agencies maybe don't instill the sense of that we're going
to get through this, We're going to help you do
that and that's going to happen rapidly, and they may
(22:27):
even foster the idea that hey, no hurry, you know,
don't worry about it. It takes as long as it takes.
One of the old expressions doctor Ashley's, well, you know,
it took many years for you to get to this point,
and it'll probably take many years to get.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Out of it. I dislike it that. Really, that's not logical,
red flag, red.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Leg So that is not logical, audience. No, just because
it might have taken a lot of time for something
to happen doesn't necessarily mean it's going to take an
equal amount of time for it to be undone.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, so when I was doing counseling, we don't do
that anymore. But when I was doing that, I was
always happy when clients would move on and they wouldn't
need counseling anymore. Like my goals for you to not
need me. I'm trying to teach you things, give you
the skills you need so you can do that on
your own.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I know. That's one success. It's one of the few
professions where we love being fired. Yeah, it is great.
Like people are like, I don't need you anymore, David.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Like that's wonderful. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So I you know, I'm glad we talked about this today,
doctor Ashery, because you know, I just don't want people
to be intimidated about getting help when they need it.
But I also don't want them coming into the process
with expectations that are wildly different than what they're going
to experience, because that's when I think people get upset
and like, I didn't know that was going to happen.
Why they do that, Why they do this, Why didn't.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
They do this?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
And then they get upset and then they're suffering alone
maybe or suffering unnecessarily so I hope today's episode helps
folks have a better sense of counseling, case management, psychiatric services,
crisis services, peer services, how to access those that can
get more most of these services at all three of
our agencies, Appleseed, Catholic Charities.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
In a cato. I hope so to you that was Wilson.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Well, thank you, doctor Ashley, and until next time, we
will continue to do our best to keep Ashland healthy
through our work here at the Board. Thank you for
listening to another episode of the Keeping Ashland Healthy podcast.
The podcast is a production of the Mental Health and
Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio. You can reach the
Board by calling four one nine two eight one three
(24:26):
one three nine. Please remember that the Board funds a
local twenty four to seven crisis line through Appleseed Community
Mental Health Center. It can be reached by calling four
one nine two eight nine sixty one one one. That's
four one nine two eight nine sixty one one one.
Until next time, please join us in keeping Ashland Healthy.
Welcome. You're listening to the Keeping Ashland Healthy Podcast, a
podcast production of the Mental Health and Recovery Board of
Ashland County, Ohio. Thanks for joining us, and welcome back
to another episode. In the studio with me is doctor
Ashley Ackerman. Welcome back, Doctor Ashley.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Thank you. How are you this morning?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm doing okay. We we were, we were worried about you.
You know, I told the audience last recording, enlisted Super
Sandy to help me out with the episode. Explain to
the audience that you were playing hooky, you're on vacation.
It's not true listening to to to music that was,
(00:42):
you know, very hard driving, full of lyrics, energetic, right lyrics.
I could not readily understand. Oh but anyway, I'm glad
you're back, Glad you had a good time. Thank you,
uh and audience, we are glad to talk to you. Uh.
In today's episodes about you know, our three agencies, Apple Seed,
(01:02):
Catholic Charities and CATA. We've been going through three great programs,
doctor Ashley for the last few times, but we wanted
to talk about a program or programs that all of
our agencies shared to some extent, which are clinical services
at our agencies. And what I mean by that is
(01:22):
the services like counseling, an assessment, and case management and
psychiatric services. So I would say when people think about
our agencies, this is probably the kinds of services and
programs they think of most.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Probably.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, so you know you go to apple Seed, Catholic
Charities are Kada because you need an assessment and you
need counseling. So but I have found doctor Ashley over
the years, you and I are both counselors. We've done
all the things we're going to talk about. But I
don't think most people have a good idea of what
actually we mean by these services.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
That's fair, I would say, probably not.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
So I thought it would make sense to just unpack
the services where they're at. And like I said, sometimes
all three of our agencies offer these services. Sometimes they're
special to a particular agency, and when that's the case,
we'll point that out. But maybe start by saying the
most common first step for folks. And I say this
(02:20):
because our goal is for folks that need help. We
want to make that easy for folks to access and understand.
I just really am a strong believer. Maybe it's because
my own issues doctor Ashley. But in form consent is
really important to me. And what I mean by that
audience is, you know, before you go somewhere, you should
have a good idea what's going to happen. I get
(02:40):
anxious when I walk into a situation that's new and
I've got no clue what's going to happen. Some people
find that stimulating, exhilarating. I do not know, thanks saying
I want a rough idea about what is going to happen.
So one of the first things that happens when you
go to a Kaida, Catholic Charities or Apple seat is
(03:01):
an assessment. Now that sounds maybe intimidating to people, and
we're going to try to use, you know, just common terms.
What we mean by that is the person, usually one
person will talk with you, and I encourage people to
bring your loved one or your support person because they're
(03:22):
going to be asking you about what's going on in
your life that has caused you to get to the
point where you feel like you need help. So maybe
you've tried family, friends, church, other support people in the community.
But whatever you're struggling with, whether that's feeling down or blue,
(03:44):
or anxious or you name it, whatever's going on has
reached a point where you feel like everything you've been
trying hasn't worked or and what I mean by that,
you're not feeling the way you want to feel. Right,
So the assessor is trying to determine, just like with
a medical point, what's going on, you know, get to
(04:04):
know you a little bit, but figure out what's going
on when it started, when things got to a point
where you know, you were really upset or it was
really interfering with your ability to work or raise a family,
et cetera. So they're going to ask a series of
questions and for the most part, the forms that they
use to guide them through that process or standardize. Yeah,
(04:26):
and that's just a fancy word meaning everybody kind of
gets the same questions because these are questions that generally speaking,
help the assessor figure out what's going on. Yeah, So
they're listening I think doctor Ashley for certain words, phrases,
situations to help give them an idea. So, just like
when you go to a physical doctor, you know, are
(04:47):
you talking about your foot, your head, your arm, your shoulder,
your heart, you're breathing. So they're trying to narrow down
to some extent what might be going on. So the
questions you're going to be asked are very similar to
when you go to see your your general practitioner. You know,
does it hurt here? Does it hurt here? Right, So
they're going to ask you questions that really are along
(05:08):
those lines. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I think the word assessment can be intimidating. If you
just think assess the situation. I think that's a good
way of thinking about it. They're trying to understand if
they don't have all that information, how can they help, right,
So it's an important step.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yep. So my encouragement to you all that our seeking
services is to be as honest, blunt as possible, as
clear as you possibly can be to the questions that
are asked to you, because that helps the person get
a better understanding and quicker. The quicker you can be
honest and frank and open and clear with what's going on.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, I like what you said to you about bringing
a loved one if you want, if there's someone you
trust of course, right, and someone you're close to you,
because there are a lot of questions that can be
kind of overwhelming and sometimes you kind of forget things
too they're asking a lot of questions, so that can
help sometimes if someone's there to support you and agreed.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
So the whole purpose though, of an assessment is for
the individual and then the organization to figure out is
this the best place can we help you? Right? I've
been to doctors before where after going through the assessment,
they said, oh, I'm going to refer you to a specialist, right,
because what you're describing isn't something I can help you with.
(06:23):
So keep that in mind. I think sometimes people feel
like if I go to one of these agencies, they
should be able to help me with anything I say.
And that may not be the case. It might require
a referral, or maybe they can help you with some
of it but not all of it. But that's what
they're trying to determine. And if I would just say,
if it's an agency says they can't, then I mean,
(06:46):
try not to be too disappointed. I understand some folks
may be disappointed, but they I mean, you don't want
them to try to help you if they really don't
feel like they have the abilities of the school, the tools,
the skills, etc.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
To do so they should not be trying to do
something beyond their practice.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
So yeah, when I get referred off to a specialist,
you know, yeah, I understand it's an extra appointment. I
have to tell my story over again. So that's a
little annoying, but yeah, I sometimes feel better too knowing
that whoever they're sending me to this is what they're
good at.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Absolutely, so yeah, so just keep.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
That in mind. So the whole point, though, of an
assessment is to determine that, and then the next step
usually is to refer you to additional services. So I
would say that formal assessment usually only happens once, maybe
twice when you go to an agency. Yeah, and then
they refer you on to what we call ongoing clinical services,
(07:38):
and a lot of times that's counseling, and that could
be done either individually or in a group format.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Usually it's individual.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. So this is I think what most people think
of when they think of our agencies and what they've
seen on TV and you know in sitcoms and other
things where somebody comes in and they talk to a
counselor talk the talk therapy. So this is the maybe
the heart of our agencies is the talk therapy and
(08:07):
the rationale the science if you will behind talk. Therapy
is by your counselor listening to what's going on and
based on their specialized training, their knowledge, their experiences, they're
supposed to walk beside you, offer you suggestions, tools, resources,
Listen first and foremost, but in addition to listening and
(08:30):
better understanding what's going on for you to hopefully offer
you help in a variety of different ways that might
help you achieve the goals that you're there for.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I love that. Yeah. And the counseling relationship. We talk
about that a lot. That's very, very important. I think
it's more important.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Why does relationship matter?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Well, she does? It does? Human connection? Right? A lot
of times that's what we need when we're suffering. We
need support, we need connection, and a counselor is a
form of that.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, So somebody who understands, somebody that you feel like
can connect to you because you might be going through
one of the more difficult times in your life. So
somebody that can connect to you and that you feel
connected to. And I think you hit on something there,
doctor Ashley wanted to cover. So you know, I, as
(09:23):
a counselor before I did my best to try to
connect as best as I knew how with everybody I saw.
But guess what, Doctor Ashley.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Not everyone connected with you.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Can you believe that some people did not care for me?
So one of the things I told them from the
very get go, I thought, So I told them, Doctor Ashley,
is if you know, give me a couple of sessions.
If it doesn't seem like we're connecting, please tell me
that and I will refer you to somebody else, because, yes,
let's face it, sometimes it's a gender thing, sometimes it's
(09:52):
an age thing, sometimes it's an experienced thing. Right. So
I remember seeing older, an older adult who just said
you just you're too young, right, And quite frankly, I
don't feel equipped to counsel women, or particularly mothers, And
they say how many kids have you had? And I
(10:13):
have to say none. So again that I say that
to the audience, to say, all of our agencies know this.
We all operate this way. It's our responsibility to get
you to somebody at that agency that you feel connected to,
because until that relationship gets set, counseling can't really be
(10:34):
that effective. I'm not saying it won't be effective at all,
but it's certainly not going to be as effective as
it can be. If you're not with a counselor that
you trust, feel like you're connecting with, you have a
relationship with, so we want you to have that, So
don't be afraid, don't be hesitant, give the person a
few times. But if you really feel like, man, we
are just not connected and I just don't see myself
(10:56):
talking to you about my deepest darkets I need as
somebody else, who else here at the agency? Can you recommend?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Absolutely? Think of it like when you go to a
primary care doctor, family doctor. If you're not syncing with them,
it's not working, you will go look for another doctor.
But for some reason, people think about counseling differently. I
think it's like they're afraid to defend the counselor or something.
But really we know that as counselors, we know that
not everyone is going to vibe the same and we
(11:24):
encourage people to advocate for a different counselor if they
need it, even if it means not seeing us.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
That's right, Yeah, well said I will say, Yeah, don't
feel bad because there are plenty of folks that are
seeking services. So yeah, if I don't click with somebody,
somebody else will be you know, scheduled with me, so
it's okay, you're not going to hurt our feelings a stuff,
Ashley said. We understand this is part of the work
we do. So another service that is very common in
our system is something called case management. Now there's fancier terms,
(11:52):
you know, for case management, but essentially a case manager
isn't a counselor, but they do help the person achieve
their goal. Oftentimes they were more involved with the day
to day practical stuff that the person might be struggling with.
It could be housing, transportation, food, it could be accessing services,
but it could be not knowing some of the resources
(12:14):
in town. We always talk about our parks and I
always like case management because you can be a little
bit more experientially. You can be out with the person.
Doesn't have to be as office based. Counseling tends to
be more office based. Case management doesn't have to be.
So the person maybe is in the home, out with
the person in public at various places where it makes sense.
(12:36):
You're actually, oh, this is a kind of a loaded term,
but you're doing life with the person. You're actually walking
beside them literally helping them with some of the skills
and the tools that would be helpful to them reaching
their goals.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah. I always really like that as a counselor, so
my clients would see case managers and they would actually
be practicing the things we're talking about counseling but in
real life. So I think that's an important opponent too.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, so it's important to know all of our agencies
do assessment, all of our agencies do counseling, all of
our agencies to do case management, and again that could
be done individually or in a group. Now, this next
service is called crisis. We've talked to it specifically on
the podcast before, so I won't go too deep into it,
except that it is very important because it is twenty
(13:21):
four to seven. Apple Seed's twenty four seven crisis Line
is the primary mechanism that folks utilize when they're in crisis.
But I don't want to forget about a CATA because
there are substance use specialists of our three agencies, and
I always recommend if folks are really experiencing a substance
use crisis, they can contact the twenty four seven crisis line,
(13:46):
or if it's during normal business hours, just contact Rick
Over at a CATA because Rick knows the substance use
agencies like for withdrawal management, detox or residential, certain regional
funds that exist or funding that exists to get into
those because they're very expensive. So and he knows which
(14:07):
ones are of higher quality and lower quality and what
their availability is. So I always tell folks, don't do
crisis on your own. If you're experiencing a crisis, you
or a family or loved one, call the twenty four
to seven number. We talk about that at the in
the podcast and the opening and the closing, but it's
the four one nine two eight nine six one four seven.
(14:28):
So crisis services primarily through apple Seed, but also through
a CATA.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, absolutely, I feel like, so if you are struggling
with mental health related things, relational things, substance use, those
are if you're struggling and you're overwhelmed, that's when you
should call that line, right, we need some support yep.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
And sometimes people call for information and education and resources. Ye,
that is fine too. But now this next service, psychiatric
and nursing services. Now that's a little unique to Appleseed.
I wouldn't say or other agencies do that not you know,
most longtime listeners to the Keeping National and Healthy podcasts
know that the board's not huge pushers of psychiatric medications.
(15:10):
But we're not against them entirely, but we just think
that they really need to be thoughtful. How are they
really going to be helpful to the person achieving the
goals that they have, and you know, for how long
doses being you know, if they're going to be used
shortest time, minimal doses what we call medication optimization principles.
But psychiatric services does involve you know, a psychiatrist at
(15:32):
Apple Seed. They've got a couple on staff and they
will add I like to think of it as we
talk about medication assisted treatment. I apply that to the
world of substance use as well as mental health. So audience,
think of it this way. If psychiatric medications are utilized,
think of them as assisting your treatment, because we do
(15:55):
not like to see medications as a treatment in and
of themselves. So again it's a crude way to say it,
but a pill's not going to make your relationship skills
get better.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yes, it took the words right from my mouth. Actually
I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yes, Yeah, medications don't help you, you know, be a
better employee, per se or a better student. They may
help with some of the symptoms in the short term,
but there are still skills. There are things going on
beyond the symptoms that you might be experiencing that still
need to be discussed with the counselor.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah. So not. You can't just take a pill and
fix everything, right, So I like that medicine in addition
to the treatment the counseling, that's important.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, But the treatment is the counseling, it's the case management,
it's not the pill. But the pill might make that
easier or more likely to be successful. But I would
you know again, inform yourself. There's plenty of places to
inform yourself about the psychiatric medications the effects of those
taking those. Yeah, so just be very very I think
(17:00):
careful and thoughtful before starting those and have that discussion
with your team. That's something we haven't really talked about.
If somebody gets an assessment and then they start seeing
a counselor maybe they also have a case manager, basically
they have a team, and it's okay to have what
we call a dunta or a team meeting. Yeah, And
a team meeting is basically you meeting with everybody that's
(17:23):
part of your team there at the agency. Those can
be helpful to say, I feel like I'm stuck. You know,
we're doing this, we're doing that, but I still feel
stuck when it comes to my goals. What can we
do differently as a team.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, sometimes the counselor or a case manager will want that.
Sometimes the client wants that, and that either way is fine.
So psychiatric nursing services, as far as our three agencies,
that's primarily focused just at Appleseed. Another kind of specialized
service that folks might be referred to would be peer
support services, and that's primarily at a CADE and Catholic charities.
(18:02):
And I just want to talk through that with you actually,
because that's newer. We haven't always had peer support services.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, there's a lot more peer supporters now right.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Ohio is really big on this. They've been they've been
promoting it trainings in the certification. A lot of our
audience might be familiar with Pathways. That is a peer
recovery center that has peer recovery workers at it. I
know that's something that they want to grow. They're in
the process of doing that. Folks come there, and the
(18:32):
whole idea is it's kind of like what it sounds.
You know, some people benefit by the counselor case manager,
but sometimes if you add a peer person, somebody who's
been through similar life experiences that's been trained to help folks,
again similar to case management, not exactly the same, but
it's really leveraging their experiences as somebody has gone through
(18:53):
similar things. So the thinking is, you know, if you've
gone through similar things successfully, might be able to give
back and help support somebody that might be going through
things that are similar to what you were able to overcome.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, I think it's just a different level of understanding.
If someone's gone through it, they have something different to offer.
And also they're modeling, you know, their own success story.
They've gone through it, they've navigated whatever the issue is,
and they can help someone else get through too. So
peer supports unique.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah. So at a KATA, you know, for example, the
peer supporter Laurie, she works with individuals primarily in a
Kada's recovery housing. And again Laurie's been in recovery successfully
for years and she's able to help folks that are
at an earlier stage in their recovery and helps them
with individual things, group things, practical things, you name it.
(19:43):
Laurie again leverages her success and her story to help
others and everybody that works with Laurie I think loves
her is great and similar at Catholic charities with Pathways programs,
those peers are working really hard with the participants down
there to say listen, you know it might seem difficult, challenging,
but you know I was there. You know I had
(20:04):
a very similar experience. This is what helped me. Maybe
it'll help you.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah. And those again connections are really important, just having
the connect to those people when you need some help. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Well, a question that people might have that I wanted
to talk about before we start to wrap up is
how long does this counseling stuff take? Doctor Ashley? Is
it years and years and years?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I'm just going to say it shouldn't be.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Oh, it shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It should not be.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, what should folks expect?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I so maybe you take the lead on this. What
should they expect? I don't think it's a lifelong process, right?
You should? You should be goal oriented, working towards your goals,
and however long that takes you personally to achieve that.
But we don't want people and counseling forever.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, I agree, it's there's going to be some variableness
because we're all different as human beings. Right, But I
think you're you're wise and saying from the get go,
Ashley the doctor, Ashley's you don't have to call me doctor.
Sorry on the programmed we have to. So but you
when you start this, either you were a loved one
doctor actually is right. I mean, this is not a
(21:10):
forever relationship. It's an important relationship. But you should have
clear goals that you're trying to attain, and you need
to be clear. Both you and your team need to
be clear, like if these things are happening or not happening,
that means I've reached my goal, so very specific. Sometimes
they call them smart goals, smart, achievable, realistic your ties. Well,
(21:32):
so the goals need to be really specific so that
everybody knows, like if this happens, then I think I'm
good to go, doc.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So, and I think it does vary, but you're right.
If things are not getting better within three to six months,
maybe course correct things should start to happen some noticeable
changes should start to happen. I say that because I
don't want the audience, because I know a lot of
people have watched a lot of bad TV and bad sitcoms.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
There are a lot of things out there.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, and you know, and again, and to be perfectly honest,
there are profession isn't always as effective as it is
and it almost, you know, depending on where you go.
I'm not talking about our three agencies now, but some
agencies maybe don't instill the sense of that we're going
to get through this, We're going to help you do
that and that's going to happen rapidly, and they may
(22:27):
even foster the idea that hey, no hurry, you know,
don't worry about it. It takes as long as it takes.
One of the old expressions doctor Ashley's, well, you know,
it took many years for you to get to this point,
and it'll probably take many years to get.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Out of it. I dislike it that. Really, that's not logical,
red flag, red.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Leg So that is not logical, audience. No, just because
it might have taken a lot of time for something
to happen doesn't necessarily mean it's going to take an
equal amount of time for it to be undone.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, so when I was doing counseling, we don't do
that anymore. But when I was doing that, I was
always happy when clients would move on and they wouldn't
need counseling anymore. Like my goals for you to not
need me. I'm trying to teach you things, give you
the skills you need so you can do that on
your own.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I know. That's one success. It's one of the few
professions where we love being fired. Yeah, it is great.
Like people are like, I don't need you anymore, David.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Like that's wonderful. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So I you know, I'm glad we talked about this today,
doctor Ashery, because you know, I just don't want people
to be intimidated about getting help when they need it.
But I also don't want them coming into the process
with expectations that are wildly different than what they're going
to experience, because that's when I think people get upset
and like, I didn't know that was going to happen.
Why they do that, Why they do this, Why didn't.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
They do this?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
And then they get upset and then they're suffering alone
maybe or suffering unnecessarily so I hope today's episode helps
folks have a better sense of counseling, case management, psychiatric services,
crisis services, peer services, how to access those that can
get more most of these services at all three of
our agencies, Appleseed, Catholic Charities.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
In a cato. I hope so to you that was Wilson.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Well, thank you, doctor Ashley, and until next time, we
will continue to do our best to keep Ashland healthy
through our work here at the Board. Thank you for
listening to another episode of the Keeping Ashland Healthy podcast.
The podcast is a production of the Mental Health and
Recovery Board of Ashland County, Ohio. You can reach the
Board by calling four one nine two eight one three
(24:26):
one three nine. Please remember that the Board funds a
local twenty four to seven crisis line through Appleseed Community
Mental Health Center. It can be reached by calling four
one nine two eight nine sixty one one one. That's
four one nine two eight nine sixty one one one.
Until next time, please join us in keeping Ashland Healthy.
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